I Spent My Last $50K to Figure Out How to Get Clients - Now Sharing This With You For Free

So you were weeks away from bankruptcy and spent your last $50K on a Tony Robbins event. At that point, did you genuinely believe that something was going to change, or were you just out of other options?

I was so depressed at my life, how it got to that point, but the only option was may as well just try out this Tony Robbins guru guy.

We often see investment in a way that we're investing into like tangible assets. You chose to develop yourself. There's something in you that shifts. What shifted? Part of it was the proximity is power is a concept that I've lived by and I've seen actually reflected in my life. Reaching up, as I would describe it, to then what it actually started to trigger as opportunity and growth and impact in my life. What were some of the things that you've noticed about those individuals that are extremely successful that sets them apart?

Yeah, it's a couple of things. If you can figure out what the system requires of you, then the system will give you what you want. I don't try to change principles, I don't create principles, but I figured out that These are the things that make this thing work.

What did you notice about how they play the game though? Because I think there's some clues there, and success always leaves clues.

Oh, if you can learn to lean into the belief of others that they have in you, then you'll get further ahead faster.

What you spoke about on that stage was something called the tiny challenge. Describe the tiny challenge. It really comes down to the mistake that a lot of founders and creators make is they build a product and try to fit it to the market. You deeply understood the pain, the frustration of your avatar. How would you describe and what it is that you stand for and perhaps what it is that you fight against. So, um, in 2019, Richmond Dinh was weeks away from bankruptcy. He had one move left, $50,000, and he put it into Tony Robbins. He followed the script, studied hard, worked hard, bought the house and actually many houses. He saved and he was ready for the retirement plan. The same 40-year plan sold to an entire generation as wisdom, but quietly engineered to keep people productive, compliant, and broke. At the finish line. So he burned the script and built his own. The Tiny Challenge became the method. Over 2,000 coaches now globally since then have used it to land their first clients fast. Not ads, not audiences, sometimes within days of starting. $30 million in student sales later, Richmond's obsession hasn't changed. Get a beginner coach to their first paying client in under 7 days. Now in this episode, we cover so much, but we cover how the Tiny Challenge actually works. Why the traditional path to success was never actually designed to set you free, and what it takes to build a business that funds your life, not just your LinkedIn bio. This is the Freedom Formula podcast. I'm Shane Da Costa, your host. Let's dive in. So you were weeks away from bankruptcy and spent your last $50K on a Tony Robbins event. At that point, did you genuinely believe that something was going to change, or were you just out of other options?

Part of it was hopeful, but at the same time, 'cause I was literally, I had lost over $1 million in the property market. I had 12 properties at a time and the last 3 I bought, I overleveraged in the mining towns 'cause everyone said buy in the mining towns and Australia was going through a mining boom and I wasn't seeking mentorship. I wasn't around the right people. I just was listening to real estate agents and property spruikers. So I bought properties in a mining town Within a year, I overleveraged $1.5 million, which went backwards straight away. No rent, all that kind of stuff. And I had to pay about $1,200 a week towards that mortgage that wasn't getting rental return. And that's $60,000 a year. And I was earning $120,000 a year with a 1-year-old and You can't do that. And so the only option for me that I could see at the time was to go bankrupt, but I had $50,000 in savings. And so if you're going to go bankrupt, you need to spend your money, otherwise they're just going to take your money. And so I went on a $50K spending spree, but you can't, you can't buy a watch because they'll sell the watch. You can't buy a bag, they'll sell the bag. You can't buy a car, they'll sell the car. So you can only really buy an intangible product that you know, so when you go bankrupt, they can't really sell it back in experience. And I'm not a gambler, so I wasn't going to go to Vegas or anything like that. But I thought I was so depressed at my life, how it got to that point. But the only option was may as well just try out this Tony Robbins guru guy, give it a go. So I had $50,000 left. My first K went to his live event called UPW, which you walk on fire and stuff. And that was life-changing. And I walked out spending another $15K because he did upsell. And so now I got home, I got about $34,000 left. What do I do? Well, I've got to fulfill the upsell. Went to the upsell, and there's this guy named Scott Harris who's his 2IC. And Scott Harris is this, like, he at the time he had this course on how to become a life coach. And I thought, yeah, you know what, that sounds interesting, why not? I've got some cash left, I've got to spend it. I didn't like optometry anyway because I was an optometrist for 10 years. And I thought, man, so just try out this life coaching thing. He had this $25K course. I thought, yeah, I'll just dump $25K. I gotta spend it anyway. And after that, I really believed I could do this. I thought, well, why not just give this life coaching thing a go? And then I hired myself another one-on-one coach to help me with the life coaching business. And now I'm down to a couple of thousand dollars. And I started life coaching more as a curiosity thing or a side hustle. But that grew extremely fast to the point where when I had no money left, I actually didn't need to go bankrupt because I started earning way more money to actually support the $60K a year. And at that point, I was earning about $250K, then $300K, then $500K, and then the $60K a year didn't really matter. And I still got that debt today. I still have that debt today because I realized that the only, the only reason why $60,000 hurts is because you're earning $120,000, but it doesn't hurt if you're earning $500,000 or a million.

Not if you're earning a lot more.

Exactly. And so that was the biggest gift that kind of I fell into from going in the mindset, I'm just gonna spend everything I have on personal development. And that's how I became a coach. and then I crushed it in life coaching. Life coaches came to me saying, how did you do it? How'd you do it? And now that's how I started coaching beginner coaches and life coaches.

Coaches?

Yeah, coaching.

It's so counterintuitive, right? I mean, when you think about the, the idea that you're, you're literally facing, uh, a traumatic event.

Yeah, yeah, especially in our Asian culture, but in any culture really.

Culture, you know. Yeah, we obviously were aspirational. You were already in a career which you obviously had already studied to be good at. You're making money, you're seeking to invest, so you're already trying to make money and build wealth. Coming from an Asian background, I imagine there's huge emphasis on that. But yet here you are, you're staring down the barrel of a situation which you can't really plan for, but yet it's so counterintuitive that, okay, I've got a little bit of money left. Most people at that point go into scarcity, but you went into the complete opposite.

Yeah, well, partly because if I went bankrupt, the bank was going to take every last bit of my cash anyway. So, you know, I kind of had to go on a spending spree. I just— it's just, what are you going to spend it on? And so if you've got $50K cash left and you had to spend it on something because the banks are going to take it, then, then what would you spend it on? And I don't know if something was looking after me, God, grace, whatever you want to call it, but I decided to spend it on something that actually helped me. In the long term rather than, I don't know, going to Vegas gambling, all that kind of stuff.

Yeah, there's something so powerful in that and that's, we often see investment in a way that we're investing into tangible assets. You sort of touched on a watch or for example, a car or property. And that's kind of usually how most people see investments, but you saw Actually, I know you say you had to spend that money, but you didn't have to. You still chose to.

Correct.

It was your choice. I imagine you are an extremely intelligent person. I imagine you would have also weighed up the pros and cons and recognized, well, in fact, if something's going to change, it's actually me that needs to change. There's things I need to learn. So you chose to develop yourself.

Yeah.

Versus spending on something else or trying to hold that money or reposition that money. You thought, no, I'm going to go and invest it.

Yeah, I appreciate you saying that because I did make an conscious choice to do something that would, I guess, in some degree benefit me and not be destructive to myself or to others, you know what I mean? And so that kind of— I guess I made a responsible decision on where to spend that money. And, um, and the reality is what I learned from that was money is really just a reflection of value. And, you know, we could talk about investing yourself as the greatest investment you ever make, and Warren Buffett talks about this. So the only reason why I was earning $120K, because I was earning, I was giving $120K of value to the marketplace. And so the only way to earn more was to become more valuable. And the only way to become more valuable is to invest in yourself because you are the highest money-earning asset that you have as long as you're healthy. And you can buy a property and buy a property for $1 million, and in 10 years' time it might go up. But if you invest in yourself, then you could earn $1 million a year, and in 10 years that's worth $10 million of income. More than what one property can earn you because you're your biggest asset. And so when you increase your earning potential, that's the best investment you can ever make.

I love the idea of that because it really goes to also our own limiting beliefs and the ceilings that we kind of set for ourselves. When you're earning $120,000, I would imagine, and I love how you've sort of positioned that as that's the amount of value you're bringing, but in many ways it's probably what you felt you were worth.

Yeah. Yes.

So talk to me about then the transition, right? You decide that you're going to go and invest in particular with Tony. You go to an event, something in you triggers, because you don't make that decision unless something does, right? There's something in you that shifts. What shifted?

Yeah, part of it was I saw— well, I was addicted to personal development after Tony Robbins. It was like, wow, this— yeah, this— what is this stuff? You know, I think most people were kind of remember the first time tapping into that world. And everyone else on the outside thinks you've joined a cult, you're drunk on the Kool-Aid and stuff. But I thought, where has this been my whole life? And the funny story was 10 years prior, my friend actually gave me a CD set with Personal Power. Most people watching this wouldn't even know what a CD set is. It was burnt. Most people don't even understand what a burnt CD is, right? And so he burnt this Personal Power CD, he gave it to me, and I listened to it in my early 20s. And as soon as I put on the first CD, it was complete— I thought it was BS because it said you can change who you are. And I had this belief that a leopard couldn't change its spots. And I thought, no, this is all garbage, this is all a scam. And I didn't touch it for 10 years. And then I still had it, and when I needed it, it showed up. And you know that saying, like, when the student is ready, the teacher arrives? It resonated like it never did before. And And that's when, you know, Tony came into my life and everything else, and my world just opened up. Like, I didn't really like optometry, and I was that guy that waited till 4:30 on Friday to go home, not 5 o'clock. But with personal development, I could do it for hours without any kind of motivation, you know. I was just pulled towards it. And so that's what led me to life coaching. The other thing was also at that point in time, um, and I mean this in the nicest possible way, the majority of life coaches out there with fat, broke, divorced, right?

Yeah, it kind of doesn't sound like it's congruently aligned.

No, it doesn't. And I'm thinking, well, I'm not fat. I guess financially I'm not doing that well, but I'm not divorced. I had a great relationship with Penny. I had been at that time best man 4 times. That's 4 best man weddings I've done, 4 speeches, 4 bachelor parties. And so I thought, I think I'm qualified to do this. You know, I made some mistakes in investing, but I also made some great decisions too. So that's why I thought, I think I could do this. And so I got the belief maybe from the environment or maybe from Scott Harris saying, you could do it, you could do it. And I said, of course I can. If you can walk on fire, you can walk on— you can do anything.

So describe some of the things that actually changed. Like, what were, what were some of the internal beliefs that you were facing that had to be reframed or changed?

Yeah, the most important thing, and I guess, um, you know, I'll be cautious in saying this, and Tony talks about all the time, like, who you spend time with is who you become. And yeah, it is the most powerful thing. I mean, that's how we met, right?

Yeah, I mean, through a mastermind.

Exactly. And otherwise, like, and I'm sure most of your friends now are like through masterminds or doing podcasts like this. And your, your network, it's, it's, it is everything. And I, I didn't really— like, people know it but they don't live it. And so everyone knows you're the average of your top 5, you know, proximity is power. Always make sure you sit at the front of the room because that's where all the heavy hitters are and the A-players are.

Some incredible lessons right there.

Yeah, like, yeah, I remember Scott said to me, Richmond, when you go to any event, just buy the VIP tickets, sit at the front. And I thought, no way, like, why do I want to pay $5,000 for front row when I get the same workbook at the back. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like the same, everything at the back. But until the first time I did it, the people there at the front, the network, were very different. And that was the start of my life changing. But back to your original question, what was the moment? The most important person that you spend time with is the person that you spend the most time with, and that's your spouse. And that is the most underrated proximity that people overlook. If you have a spouse that is very unsupportive, no matter how great your friends are, it is game over. And the converse is true. If you have a spouse that brings the best out of you and supports you and challenges you to grow and has a vision that's aligned with you, then that is more powerful than having powerful friends because the spouse is the most important. And most people that I've run into, they, they don't have that sorted out at home. It is everything. It's the foundation. And so Penny, when I said— I remember coming home, babe, I'm going to leave optometry, uh, I'm going to become a life coach. And you know what she said? She said, I always knew you could do it. Like, you— I see you as a life coach. You can do it, you know. And she supported me every bit of the way. Every bit.

Yeah, sounds like a vision that was cast, and then this final piece of acknowledgement was the thing that gave you the, the necessary fire to start that, that journey. Yeah, because walking on fire is one thing in a room with other people. It's easy to be motivated in that environment, but then it needs to carry on when you leave that environment. And so then you had that support at home.

Yeah, yep. Um, but it wasn't always like that, and part of it was because I, I had the conviction within myself. I remember, um, years prior I bought this property program, and it required me to, I guess, send out letters to people and negotiate deals and all that. And I wasn't that person, and she knew it too, and she said, you're not going to do that. So she hasn't always been supportive, but it's only because she didn't feel my level of conviction. And so, you know, there's two ways. Number one, your spouse— if you've got a supportive spouse, it's awesome. But also, you need to come to the table with your own level of conviction as well, that this is what you want and you're not going to fail and you'll never stop, you know. So both of these, those things had to happen.

Yeah, I think you need to come with that, that level of truth. And you're always going to be faced with this because there'll always be something else. And if you can't sell it to them and as to why it actually makes sense and why you're all in, yeah, well then how are you going to sell anyone else in on, on the idea of that? Yes, the proximity is power is a concept that I've lived by and I've seen actually reflected in my life. Yeah, and I can see direct correlation to when I started operating in that way with that kind of lens, reaching up as I would describe it, to then what it actually started to trigger as opportunity and growth and impact in my life.

Yeah.

So what— I suppose when you then started that, that journey, um, talk to me about then some of the, the rooms that you ended up being in and what kind of people you're around and what that then meant for you.

Yeah, the greatest, um, part which not many people know, Fran, is obviously people seeing me in masterminds. I started out— my first mastermind was Taki Moore And that's when I got introduced to 7-figure entrepreneurs and I spent 4 years in that mastermind. Back then I was only on a couple of $100,000 a year, which is great. But when you spend time with 7-figure earners, you just get to 7 figures because you start thinking like them, you start doing the things they do. And more importantly, your standards raise, becomes, it always becomes embarrassing that you're earning that much. You know, people don't tolerate that level of income. And for example, Like, if you're watching this right now and you're earning $150 grand a year, you know, you, you probably wouldn't, you know, and you started spending time with people earning 5 times more than you, you are either going to leave that peer group or you're going to raise your standards. Because the number one human need is to fit in, and otherwise it equates to death. And so if you don't fit in, then you're going to move to a peer group that you feel significant in. Otherwise you're going to feel insecure in that peer group. So that was the first thing. And then obviously I've joined Russell, um, Marianne's Mastermind, and a few others, Andy Elliott's as well. But the, the funny thing is I got invited to Arnold Schwarzenegger's house. Oh no way! Yeah, at a private charity event. And so some people see pictures online, me at Arnold's house, and it's a picture of me holding a watch that I won. Yeah, exactly. So I can't remember the exact year, I think it was 2010. How did that come about?

How did you get invited to his, to his private function?

That's the first story about proximity. So Scott Harris, my first coach said, Richmond, whatever you do, always sit at the front of the room. And so in his $25K mastermind, I met some cool people because it's $25K mastermind. One of my closest friends was this guy named Dan Wickland and we just got along like house on fire. And even after we left the mastermind, we still keep in contact today. Now, just a random thing happened. I didn't speak to him for about a year and I went to this event. It's like this multi-speaker event where they sell all these things and they've got 5 or 6 speakers selling the stuff and they got guest speakers and stuff like that. And that multi-speaker event, they had VIP tickets for $2,000 to sit at the front or you can buy like a $300 ticket to sit at the back. And I thought, okay, well, Scott told me to sit at the front. And so I sat at the front and as I'm sitting there, this was in Sydney. My friend Dan's from Melbourne. I'm sitting at the front of this event in Sydney and there's 3 rows, and I get this tap on my shoulder, and I turn around, and it's Dan. And he's like, Richmond Dinh, what the— what are you doing here? Well, I'm here. I'm sitting at the front because Scott told us to sit at the front. And so that event, uh, we reconnected, and I said, hey, what's been up in your world? What have you been doing? All this kind of stuff. And he's doing all these things, and he, he won— he won an opportunity to go to Arnold Schwarzenegger's house.

No way.

As a guest for a charity event. And he got along with the person that organized the whole thing, and he said, hey, look, I only do— I only have one rule. I always take my bestie Richmond with me to everywhere we go. And can you make that happen? And so, long story short, he made it happen. All because I sat at the front and I met a guy at Scott Howard's event. And at that event, at that event, I met Arnold Schwarzenegger. They had Sly was there, Statham was there, billionaire producers were there. It was nuts. It was about 100 people there. Yeah. And then I was there.

Yeah, yeah.

Like life coach Richmond Dinh. It was crazy. But the funniest thing happened because at that event they were serving $4,000 cognac, Louis XIII, and there was this girl there.

I imagine you drank a bit of it.

Yeah, I did. I tried to be tactful, you know, but I did come back for seconds and thirds. And they were giving out $500 cigars. I had no idea because I don't smoke cigars and stuff. And I took one home and I gave it away to my friend, and later I realized that was $500. And they were giving away like just chocolate, like just taking on case. I'm like, no, I don't smoke cigars. What do I want cigars for? And so at event, I met this, um, girl named Taj, and we hit it off because I thought she was a waitress because she was dressed in black and said, 'Oh, can you get me some Louis XIII?' Okay, so she got me some, poured me some, and then I drank. She says, 'You know, I'm not a waitress.' I'm like, 'Oh, okay.' So we played that joke, but, um, we became really good friends to the point where she said, 'Hey Rich, like, so you're a life coach?' I'm like, 'Yeah, I'm a life coach. Why do you ask?' because I, I need life coaching. I'm very successful. I don't need any more money because everyone at this event is successful, right? I'm just really unhappy with my life, and I'm going through a divorce. I'm not settled. I don't have any direction anymore. I just need some life coaching. I'm thinking, wow, okay, she wants me to coach her. So I thought, you know, I'm not going to coach her for any fee. I said, like, how about this? I'll trade you coaching if I can just pick your brain on success, because she owned multiple businesses, she had property and stuff. And she's like, okay, sure. So I coached her on a couple of basic things. When you coach people who are not in personal development and use very simple coaching techniques, they think you're a magician, you know. Like, you and I, we're just used to what a reframe is, we're used to what pre-framing is, we're used to all these things in communication, but they don't know it. And, um, and so her life was drastically changed because I really just changed the model of the world that she sees and her perception of reality and how she views people and expectations of herself, of other people, kind of stuff. And now she's feeling like, I owe you everything, Rich. And she saw my origin story on Facebook, how I lost $1.2 mil and I spent my last $50k and all that. And she's like, Rich, I'm gonna make you rich. Like, this is what I owe you. I'm gonna— there's— I get opportunities all the time, and the next big opportunity, I'm gonna bring you in on. I'm like, okay, sure. So I wasn't sure what's gonna happen, but maybe she's saying it. Her husband at the time was this guy named Christophe. She introduced me to Christophe. She's like, you gotta meet Richmond. He's my— she called me my therapist. He's changed my life. And now Christophe loves me. It turns out Christophe is a Frenchman. and his best friend is this man named François. François Thibault is the creator of Grey Goose. And if you know too much about, like, um, the story of Grey Goose, when François created Grey Goose, and you know, in France they're very proud, they do not create vodka. They only do cognac, champagne, or wine. And, and so back in the early '90s when he decided, I'm going to create this thing called premium vodka because there was a gap in the market, They hated him. They said, you can't do that to France. This is like, you know, you're going to bring down our country, all that kind of stuff. And then obviously Grey Goose became Grey Goose and now is a national hero. But he lives in this town called Armagnac, which is next to Cognac. And he's left Bacardi now, who owns Grey Goose. The company sold for $2.2 billion. And he's got this coming home story now because Armagnac is his heritage, it's his roots, it's where he came from. And Armagnac has been the little brother to cognac for centuries. 99% of people in France drink Armagnac. 99% of cognac is exported to the world. So French don't even drink cognac. Oh, well, people don't know that, but the world doesn't know that. And because he grew up in a town called Armagnac, he decided, you know what, my next chapter in my life— because he's over 60 now, he's just going to his last season— is to create Armagnac, to put it on a map. And so he created this Armagnac called Cardon du Jaffar, and they launched it a couple of years ago. They wanted 6 investors, and she came to me to be one of the founding partners of this company.

What an incredible opportunity.

Crazy. So I met François, I went to his 60th birthday, he had it in his castle, and like, that investment is just going crazy now. But it's opened up a lot of doors. And just opened my mind, all because I sat at the front of the room at that event.

When you trace it back like that, from such a simplistic perspective. But to get to the front of the room, you also— there had to be something new that was already shifting, and it was almost what I would describe as a frequency. Yeah, a frequency in you shifted from being the employee. Yeah, who was stuck in optometry to a frequency of abundance and starting to break ceilings to actually start investing. Which then meant you were maybe casting your eyes and new vision. Yeah. And with that kind of pull energy then and getting yourself into the front seat, which then is that proximity.

Yeah.

I love it. Like that kind of story is so rare, but in a sense where, but so common for those individuals that if when they do succeed and you trace like their story, when you trace the breadcrumbs, as they say, like there's always that kind of, that kind of story.

Yeah, yeah.

What was some of the, the things that you've noticed about those individuals that are extremely successful that sets them apart?

Yeah, it's a couple of things. They're not actually smarter than most people. In actual fact, like, um, if you do like a, you know, studious IQ test or whatever, I was ducks in high school.

Yeah, I would imagine so.

Yeah. And but I wasn't I was the underdog for a long time, actually. There was this other kid and he always got like Dux for Year 7, Year 8, Year 9, Year 10, Year 11, and then come Year 12, like, I just got the Dux Award. But I got Dux not because I was the smartest. So here's what I've noticed about highly successful people. I got Dux because I worked out how the system works. And so if you go around in life looking at how things work rather than just being the pawn in the system— yeah, exactly— or in The Matrix, you know. Yeah. Understand how things work, then, then it's not so much to manipulate the system, but it's just if you can, if you can figure out what the system requires of you then the system will give you what you want. So you can't change the system. The system is the system. You can't change like big government or big pharma or anything like that, but you can work out what they want. And if you give the system what it wants, then it'll give you what you want. And so that's what I learned about highly successful people is like they figured out how it works. They figured out how networking works. They figured out how the money game works. They figured out how investing works. They figured out how business works, how marketing works. Like they just understand how it works and I'll just apply those principles and then it works. And I don't try to change the principles, I don't create principles, but I've figured out that these are the things that make this thing work. And if I just do those things, then it works like magic. So, that's one of the things how I got high school ducks, if you're wondering. I definitely was not the smartest. And so, I don't know what they do in year 12 now. I don't know how the schooling system works wherever you're watching this, but in our days it was the UAI. And so in year 12, you had to do minimum, they recommended minimum 12 units of subjects and they score all 12 and the best 10 attributes to your final mark. They said that's minimum 12. But we recommend you do 14 to 16 just in case, just in case. So if you do 14 units, it's a higher probability or it's just more likely that you can stuff up more units and you'll be okay. And so it's just a bit of an insurance policy. But I had this theory that I thought, well, if I do more units, my focus is spread. And by default, then you're less likely to succeed because focus is power. And so I remember I went to my year 12 coordinator and I said, hey, like most people doing 14 units and they'll pick the best 10 out of the 14 when they do all the marks. So they have to sit 14 units of exams. I went to my year 12 coordinator and I said, hey, like, is it illegal for me? Like, is it against the rules for me to do 10 units? Like, is 12 like the bare minimum? He's like, no, it's not illegal. It's not, not allowed. No one's ever done it before, and said, can I possibly do this? Like, I don't like where this is going. What are you, what are you asking? It's like, well, I think if I do 10 units and I focus just on 10, all my focus is put on that 10.

The focus.

Yeah, because I'm not, I'm not a lazy person. I just know that if I put my focus on 14, I'm less likely to have great marks because my focus is spread. And he said, I don't do it, Richmond, because if you bomb up one unit, this is your HSC, this is your UAI. And I said, I think my chances are higher. And he really advised me against it to the point where he made me sign like this is what I wanted.

Covering himself.

Yeah. And I wasn't at a legal age to sign. And I remember I brought her home, Mom, can you sign this? She couldn't read English. Yeah, just sign him up. And then so I did the 10 units, all my focus on the 10.

And what happened? Smashed it.

Got ducks.

Wow. Yeah, it seems like you have an incredible ability to ask questions that are perhaps a little against the status quo.

Yeah, I've always been curious as to how things work. And even in multiple choice too, like, you know, back then I don't know what the Examples were like, for example, certain subjects had multiple choice answers. They had A, B, C, D, or E. And if you didn't know the answer, you're just guessing. And one year, one year, I thought like you could stab a guess. This one, if I don't know this, I'll go A and D and E and C and B and just randomly guess answers. And I thought, well, if I stick to one answer, I'm more likely to get like more right because I'm just sticking to one B. Like, if I— for all the answers I didn't know that year, I just decided, yep, it's all B. If I don't know it, B. If I don't know it, B. If I don't know it, B. I didn't want to just mix and change around. And that year, most of the answers were B. So I just got lucky. That is— I'm telling you, I'm not the smartest person. I just figured out, okay, well, this is probably more likely that this is going to be the case, and whatever it is.

There's a lot in that though, because there's ways, like, for example, in most things in life, you sort of talked about understanding how the game works.

Yeah.

In most things in life, like, you can't guarantee necessarily like an outcome, but what you can do with this kind of thinking is skew the results in your favor by increasing probability.

Yeah.

So you're almost working out like as if you were— when you play cards, there's ways to increase probability, right? If you follow certain rules or go down a certain path. So you found a way to increase probability of getting a result.

That's right, yeah.

When you say you studied these people, right? Because that network's probably almost like as high as you can get it from a social hierarchy.

Yeah, yeah. House sells, oh gosh.

Yeah, the social hierarchy there is as high as you get. What did you notice about how they play the game though? 'Cause I think there's some clues there and success always leaves clues. What do you feel were maybe one or two of the things that were extremely good at? Like, what did you notice?

Yeah, yeah. Oh, I was gonna say discipline, but even then, like, you know, you could be disciplined, like people who are not successful could be disciplined at the wrong things. Like, you know, I see a lot of people in the fitness space and they're extremely disciplined, like personal trainers, and they've got six packs and all that kind of stuff. Very disciplined, good with their diets, but they're broke. And so it's not discipline. It, it really comes down to— I was going to say consistency as well. I put a lot of thought into this. You know, your ability, your ability to adapt quickly and have a growth mindset is the difference between a person that's not as successful as they want to be versus another one. And And that ability to learn and adapt, like Darwin's rule, it's not survival of the fittest, it's survival of the one that can adapt the quickest. And so I find the most successful people are very willing and easy to adapt to changes fast. And we live in a fast-changing world right now, and the people that will survive and go to the top are the ones that can adapt and pivot very, very quickly, whilst the others, they, they stay fixed in their mindsets for a very long time.

Quick pause. If you're listening right now and you know you weren't built for an average income or a life stuck behind a desk, this is for you. We are hosting a 90-minute FDR masterclass live with me where I break down exactly how to become a highly skilled finance development representative in the remote sales space. You'll see how top reps work US accounts close from home and position themselves to earn six figures remotely. Now, at the end of the masterclass, we'll invite attendees to apply to work with us directly. From there, we'll be selecting 30 people to move forward. We'll provide elite training, hands-on support, and physical help to place you in roles on US accounts with a clear pathway to earn six figures while working from home. Now, this is not for everyone. It's for people who want freedom and are willing to do what it takes to actually earn it. Now, if that's you, I want to comment in the comments "freedom" to register for the next masterclass, or head to the link in the bio right now. Okay, let's head back to the show. It reminds me a lot of this Eric Hoffer quote, which I've tried to quote several times this podcast and fucked it up every single time. And it's this: in times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves perfectly equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists. So I've personally made that one of the quotes that has shaped me for so long because I always believed that there's only one guarantee in life, and that is that things will change. There's nothing that actually remains the same irrespective of our efforts. Your bank account, your health, your relationships, your family, the environment around you— I mean, businesses that you've built and got to a certain point, at some point the environment will change, the opportunity will change, whether it be through technology or competition. So if I sort of reflect on those individuals in my life that um, either aspire to be like through masterminds, or you see how quickly they adapt. Exactly what you said, they adapt so quickly to how things are changing. They have an innate ability to recognize an opportunity because of that growth mindset, which is one of the, the main, I suppose, features you've described of the way they think. They always see the possibility they're willing to test very quickly, validate the idea, to put some action through their ideas, and then they jump on the thing that obviously works. They're just willing to fail more. Yeah, it sounds like the relationship with failure in their mind is different. They've reframed failure.

Yeah, 100%. 100%. There's so many things, and On that note of failure, like there's, and I got this from Myron Golden, like there's two laws. There's a law of averages and the law of volume. And so— I love that. Yeah. Oh, it's—

That is powerful.

I mean, in sales, if your close rate is say 50%, for example, which is probably really good for close rate.

It would be.

You just see 10 people, you close 5 people, and like everyone has an average close rate, whether you're closing 10 people, 100 people, everyone's got an average. If say your average is 50% and you see 10 people and you close half, then you close 5 people. If your close rate is 10% and you see 10 people and you only close 1, you only close 1 person. So from an average perspective, the 10% closer is not as good. But if the 10% closer takes 100 calls, then they get 10 sales as opposed to 5 for the person that's 10. So volume negates average all the time. And so in order to become successful, you just gotta increase the volume at which you fail and get nos, because the more nos you get, it means by default you have an average of yeses as well. And so if you only get one yes out of 100, but you ask 1,000 times, that means you've got 10 yeses versus a person that doesn't ask at all, or maybe only ask once and they get one yes and they've got an average of 100%. And so volume, the volume of in which you ask will outdo any average of how many yeses you get. And that's, that's the key, just continually reframing failure as the stepping stone. But I think most successful people don't even resonate or even like to comprehend the word failure anyway. Um, it's just, it's not in their comprehension.

They give it a different meaning. They recognize that, that the thing they tried didn't work simply as a lesson that's shown them, okay, well then this doesn't work, but therefore now I've learned something. I can take that forward and I can move move to the next thing with a lot more speed and conviction and experience.

Yeah.

And go along. Your experience to this point has led you into several rooms, as we've discussed, and not just rooms but masterminds, and then of course strong friendships. And you've been down this journey, which so much of that then is, is attributed to what you have achieved already and to what you will achieve. And it's hard to pick one So it's difficult to pin you down to one, but if we could ask, well, what was that one person that you feel has had the most impact on you? Who would that be and why?

100%, Penny. 100%. Like, interesting. Yeah, I mean, talked about before, the most important person you spend time with is your spouse. And like, I call it Bitcoin.

Yeah, because, because it was at the $1.

Yeah, I got it. I got in a dollar. Um, she was— I don't know if you're gonna— no, she won't hate me for saying this. I call it Bitcoin jokingly, but also for real, she loves it because she's like, she's worth so much now.

Yeah, exactly.

And so, you know, you gotta spot the Bitcoins in relationships.

That's interesting.

Yeah. Um, and when you— like, that's— I'm not a woo-woo person, but I think intuitively when it comes to that area, you have to lean on your woo-woo side and trust your gut. And if your gut feels right about that person, go all in on it.

Agree.

Um, if something goes off—

agree. Yeah, it's funny because I would, I would say the same of my wife because there was a point there, in fact, I wasn't into personal development. I was stuck in a role that I was definitely capped. I didn't really have a growth mindset at the time that I met her. And you just talked a moment ago about how a friend had CDs of, of Tony Robbins. Well, let me tell you a story. So when I first started dating Pearl, we moved in together, and I wasn't into my personal development. I used to complain more than, than, than the next— and the next person, for example. And she had this whole, uh, like big stack of CDs of Tony Robbins. And so one day I'm cleaning the house, as you do, when we were doing a little bit of a spring clean. I came across all these CDs. I remember, you know, turning to her and saying, What's all this shit? Do we need this? And she didn't, you know, been through her own journey of personal development. She heavily invested into Tony and his courses and was a big part of her own journey. And, um, somehow convinced her to get rid of them. Only then, for like 6 months later or a year later, when I started my personal development because of her, then I was trying to circle back saying, where are those CDs? So yeah, I would say she's my Bitcoin as well in that in that regard.

Yeah, so good.

It's crazy. No, it's true. So then if we could— okay, let's, let's— okay, so she's the Bitcoin, but let's focus then on if there was someone else. Yeah, in that case then, because you've had loads of mentors, and I, I truly believe in the idea of, of osmosis. Yeah, like you want to be a winner, you hang around fucking winners, right? Full stop. Like, there's a reason why people pay Russell so much or Myron so much because there's something that they can impart.

Yeah.

So who were maybe one of those two people, one or two of them, and why?

I feel so bad. I— this is tough.

I know, it's shit.

It's like I feel like I'm dishonoring all my mentors, you know?

Yeah, it's tough because I would even find it difficult to answer that.

Yeah, but yeah, can you choose all of them? No, you can't. Yes.

Well, maybe, you know, give me, give me, uh, to respect the journey Then maybe one or two from each person. Give me one or two.

Yeah, I mean, Scott Harris for sure, because he was— not only because he was my first coach, but he's the one that really preached to me more than Tony Robbins did about sit at the front of the room. Sit at the mindset. Yeah, he preached to me proximity, even though you hear from Tony Robbins, but he really preached it hard to me. And he said, Richmond, whatever you do, because I was going to a lot of events back then. Always sit at the front of the room. I don't care what you need to pay. Get out of your head. Sit at the front. Always sit at the front. And from that, when I first did it, like my first Tony Robbins event, I sat right at the back, paid $1,000. But my next Tony Robbins event, I upgraded to the Diamond section, and then I knew the difference. And then that event where I bumped into Dan, I knew the difference. And So from that one advice changed everything, because from sitting at the front of the room and understanding the power of proximity, then opened my eyes to Taki Moore, then Russell Brunson, then Myron Golden. And so that was the catalyst for me to be very intentional on who I spend time with. And so that's when I started to shed the friends that really um, I guess were, were being toxic or tall poppy syndrome, or, um, or just not at the level that, you know, you were playing at, you know what I mean? And so then I had to be very intentional about letting some people go and then adding some new friends in my circle. I, I really believe that who you spend time with is everything. I call it the 8th wonder. It is the invisible force that dictates your beliefs, your values, your religion, what you eat, your weight, your income. Everything about you is dictated by the invisible force called the 8th wonder, which is proximity. I mean, if you cut my wrist and I bleed, my blood type is 8th wonder. And so Scott really got that message home to me. So he's the one that I would say changed it all for me. Yeah.

And yeah, that I would look back at even my experience with that, and I can see how that then plays out. Like, it— and it's one of those things that a lot of people aren't willing to walk through, right? Because it's the shedding of who you were to become who you need to be.

Yeah.

And when you start to hang around these types of people, when they— when you start to be inspired by them, you obviously— you're hearing what they talk about. They're focusing on different things. They're, they're not in problem mode, they're in solution mode. They're looking for opportunity. And what I find is then you can't help but take on those attributes. You have to leave people behind. I remember there was a very distinct point in my journey as well. It was probably only about 12 months in that I had to make a very, uh, specific decision to leave certain people behind. But it wasn't because you know, you don't love them anymore. You still honor their contribution at some point, but in order for you to become who you want to become, like, there's just different rooms you need to be in, different conversations you need to be having. And you get to choose, right? Because you don't have to, but you get to choose. So you kept choosing that. You keep pushing yourself in. I want to focus on that thing Scott told you about getting to the front of the room. As you say that, I can see you walking to the front of the room, and it's not just words someone telling you. It is more than just intention. It is legitimately physical action of you saying, I belong at the front. And I always say to people, like in mentoring the people that I work with, and I ask them this question often that stumps people: how do you think the royals became royal?

How?

By the tip of the sword. So what that means is by intention and then taking action. So you By saying, I'm going to get to the front of the room, is you saying, I'm royal, I'm royal, I deserve to be here amongst you. Therefore, you elevate your social status, you get yourself into that position. Then because of that, you start to make decisions like them. You know, Dr. Benjamin Hardy, which you and I would have had the privilege of seeing on stage in Orlando that time— you've probably seen him since then— but he wrote a book that was, for me, Powerful. Be Your Future Self Now. And in that, he talked about how when you cast a vision of who you want to become, you don't wait to be that person to start thinking and behaving like they do. You do it now. So for example, right now you and I are sitting in this room, we're doing a podcast. Like, I didn't say I'm a podcaster and wait for that to happen. I made that decision and then I started taking action.

Yeah.

And so you need to do the thing in order to become that person. So by you wanting to be royal, changing your, your world, attracting high levels of success, like you legitimately had to get into the front of the room, but you had to pay a price.

Yeah.

And, and when you say that, for me, I can't help but go back to this moment, and you were going to light up when I talk about it, when I saw one of the greats pitch in Orlando, Russell Brunson. Yeah, you remember the pitch, and he was talking about at that particular moment, and he was very excited about the, uh, the introduction of, uh, the word escapes from mind now, the, the method where, um, he, he builds in continuity. Yeah, what was that, uh, that, that, um, the, um The linchpin. The linchpin. So he was presenting on the linchpin. He was giving his master plan on how he was going to release this, this into the, the world, what it was going to mean. And then he broke down master class on— I believe that would have been a Wednesday night or Thursday night, day 4. Basically, you would have been in the, in the room studying like I was and watching everything that he's doing and saying, right? And half the room, let's say took the opportunity just to give it a kind of bit of numbers and bought. But then another half, let's say, didn't.

Yeah.

The next day, you and I back in the same room, we're witnessing now the re-pitch, and a gentleman, Myron Goldman, gets up and he did a pitch that I would say is like poetry in motion.

Yeah.

Like, I was in awe. And why I was in awe because there was something about it that was just different, a different energy. It's so hard to explain it unless you were there, but I could see you lighting up, and in a moment you're going to start sharing what you took away. And I want to just give you like what I experienced. What I experienced in that moment was this, this pitch, almost like the, the piper. Yeah, playing, playing this tune that just was so powerful that you couldn't help but pierce your soul, and you had a decision. You could not stay in your seat without at least acknowledging whether or not you are full of shit or whether you mean it. And he forced you to confront the truth. Like, I say that because as I'm listening to what he's saying, he forced every person in that room to confront the truth. Are you happy with your situation? It's a yes or no. If you're not happy, put your hand up. And then people put their hand up. This wasn't verbatim, this is my recap.

Yeah.

And then he went to the next layer. Now if you put your hand up, I want you to stand up.

Yeah.

And when they stood up, then he laid a little bit more and he said, I want you to come to the front of the room. And then when they got to the front of the room, he said, well, now guess what we're going to do, my friends? We're all going to walk to the back of the room. You're going to get your credit card out. Why? Because when you pay, you pay attention. I couldn't give this to you for free because then you wouldn't value it. And so because I love you, I want you to change. I need your life to be better. You're going to have to walk with me. You're going to have to commit, because if you commit, on the other side is the person you want to become. Mate, so many people stood out of their seat.

Yeah.

And I was in awe. I was like, holy shit, the day before one of the greats pitched and all these people still sat in their seat, but yet it took someone to, to say just the right thing that forced people to step forward. Yeah, it was magic.

It was poetic. It was poetic.

You've had so much more to do with, with Myron as well, given you've, you've worked closely with him. What have you experienced?

Yeah, Myron is one of the greatest, uh, stage closers in the industry, probably on the planet. In every industry, right? And you witnessed it, we saw it, it was poetic. I've also realized he's one of the best one-on-one closers as well.

Wow.

So how— how— what— I invested $350K USD in his VIP Day Mastermind, which is $550,000 AUD, and it's paid in full, which is like house, you know, like not in Sydney.

$350 USD.

Yeah, yeah, $550,000 Aussie.

$550,000. You could buy a house in maybe, um, and what did you get for that?

Yeah, it's a good question. So, um, I'll mention what I got in a second because how he sold it to me was poetic in itself. Wow. Yeah. And again, like, I'm always thinking, okay, if all I did was just break down how he sold it to me, even though I bought it, that would be worth $350K already because I can apply the principles on what he did. And I did apply the principles. And so we sold 3 $1 million offers and 11 $100K offers. And so just applying the principles about how he sold it to me. So there was an event at Russell Brunson's mastermind And at these masterminds, you get up and you share with them your business and what your constraint is, and they give you some feedback on how to solve that problem. And I drew out my ascension model. At that point, I had $5,000 and $25,000. And Marin's in the room and he's like, where's your $100K offer? Like, no, I got a $5K and a $25K. That's our business model. That got us to multiple 7 figures and we're good with that. It's like, but it's incomplete. You don't have a $100K offer. Because Myron is very well known for helping people create $100K offers, like premium value offers, you know, and sell them, and even million-dollar offers and sell them. And I said, well, I don't have one because I don't think I'm worth $100K. You know, it was, it came one of those sessions. That night we had dinner together and I said, Richmond, I don't understand how come you, you are one of the sharpest minds that I've ever seen. I know people not as smart as you who are selling $100K offers. And I don't understand why you don't have $100K offer. And he played this game and he put out $100 note and he said, I need you to give me $10 and you got a minute to do it. And if you give me $10, I'll give you $100 note. And I couldn't find $10 to save my life. I didn't have American currency anyway. 60 seconds went down and lost the game. He was like, Richmond, why didn't you just ask the table for $10? Like, oh, you know, so simple. And Russell was sitting next to me and I was so embarrassed by the game. He said, the point is, did you want that $100? It's clearly not bad enough. And he said, okay, hypothetically, if I was to give you $1 million and I said you have to give me $100K, would you do that? And I said, yeah, I would. Great, so that's the offer. How you sell $100K offers is to promise a 10x return. It's not about selling your soul or selling your time or having her for dinner. And that night—

I hope if you're listening, you're catching this.

Sell the outcome. Oh, because I had a limiting belief that if I sold a $100K offer, then I have to make them breakfast. Which is a big mistake.

Literally on the way here, I was talking to a new business partner with the Freedom Academy, and, um, we were talking about how, for example, in our offer, the competitors are all selling the thing.

Yeah.

And I said to him, we don't sell the thing, we sell the transformation.

Yes.

We saw the result.

Yes.

Right. And because of that— and this is, this is truth We were talking about our $100K offer. How do you like that?

Let's go.

We were literally talking about what's that $100K offer.

Yeah.

'Cause we've got our current Ascension.

Yes.

We're talking about our $100K offer.

It's crazy. You know the amount of people that wanna buy a $100K offer? It's a lot.

I would imagine.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I would love to sell it to them.

Exactly. It's kind of like, you know, I see dead people everywhere.

Yes, they're everywhere.

Yeah, I saw these people wanting to buy $100K offers. So I bought them.

What a listen.

Well, I bought— I mean, so that, that night, so I hadn't bought anything from Byron yet. So that night I was so embarrassed because I lost the game. And but what a lesson, what a lesson. So I got back to my hotel and I texted my very first $100K offer to a person I thought that might take it, someone that is already working with me, but I want to upgrade her to the $100K. And said, hey, Kaylee, like, I've got a, I've got a $100K offer for you, but I'll tell you more about tomorrow. So no, don't tell me now. Okay, well, do you trust me? She's like, yeah, cool. Well, I just need $10K down. I'll tell you more about tomorrow. And she's like, okay, sure. She transferred me $10K down and I sold my first $100K offer that night. The next day, it's crazy, I went to Marin. Marin, I just sold my first $100K offer. I couldn't believe it because I lost that game. Yeah, let's— can you shoot a video for Kaylee to congratulate her because it's the first time? He's like, sure, okay. And I pulled out my phone, we shot a video together and he's like, congratulations, Kaylee, you're Richmond's first one and that's your rite of passage for you selling your $100K offers. And on the video I said, oh, Kaylee, one of the things I want you to do is I want you to meet Myron because proximity is power. So part of the $100K offer, Kaylee, I'm going to introduce you to Myron. And Myron's like, oh, okay, sure. Well, you know what, Kaylee? Well, since I got Richmond on the phone right now, I'm going to make Richmond a $100K offer.

There you go.

And he pitched me a $100K offer. And it's like to spend a day on his yacht. Yeah. And also to fly back with him from Boise to Tampa on his jet, which is a 5-hour flight. So we're going to mastermind for 5 hours and he's going to help me with my business. And he said, if Richmond says yes right now, I'm going to allow him to take you as my plus, as a plus one. And I'm like, uh, okay, Kaylee, I guess I'll give the $100,000 you're giving me to Myron. And then, and then I said yes to Marin's $100K offer, and that was the first time I signed up to his $100K. But he's the upsell, so I went on his jet at the end of it. First time I flew private in that fashion.

Yeah, awesome experience. I saw the photos.

Yeah, it's so good, and it was mind-blowing. Like, he's— the value you get with him in a private setting like that— there was only about 4 people on the jet— was awesome. At the end of the jet, this is how he closed me to his $350K. He said— he leaned over to me because we were sitting next to each other. I said, hey Richmond, how's the last 5 hours been? It's been amazing.

Cool.

Well, the question I have for you is, would you like this to be a one-time experience or a new standard in your life? Oh, because if you upgrade to my $350K, I'll absorb the $100K for you right now.

Oh, no-brainer.

And I'm like, don't do this to me, don't do this. What a closing question. Repeat it. Yep. Would you like this to be a one-time experience or a new standard in your life?

Pay attention. Yeah, if you're listening to this podcast and you need to zoom back to that, rewind it, go back and listen to it again, because the question there binds you to who you want to become, like the type of life you want to experience. And it's either a yes or a no. There's no maybe pile at that point. You're confronted with truth. And I would always say, you know, in, in sales, so much of it is taking people to truth and testing their boundaries, right? Because what I hope a lot of people are capturing, capturing is that, that experience, what it's also doing is expanding your mind. Yeah, because when you're willing to pay $100, you legitimately open yourself up to be the type of person that would demand $100. From someone else. I literally said the other day, and when we were sort of talking amongst the team that are now building out the Freedom Academy, what we're doing, I said, hey guys, I said, in 2017 I sold a personal training package for $140K. I want you to imagine that, right? Because adjusted for inflation today is probably $170K, right? $180K in an industry that is in a race to the bottom. I want you to just grasp that they trade time for money, right? There's literally like more and more coming into the market every single day. So there's lots of supply, right? It's no scarcity. So if I could do that in 2017, I said, what do you think is the likelihood that we could have a $500K offer in 2026 on an outcome that legitimately helps people 10x, 20x their investment. And I just paused there for a moment. Everyone went, you're right. So that moment with you, like, in mind, it sounds like what it's doing is expanding your belief, like, in a huge way. What kind of action did you start to take then?

Well, when I— I didn't say yes straight away. I, I did still pause. I, I paused. I said, Marin, I appreciate the, the honesty, but like, that's what I mean. Myron is a great stage closer, but he's a great one-on-one closer.

Okay.

And he didn't push. He's like, I'll leave you the question. And he actually said, you don't even have to answer it now. I'm like, so he, he allowed me, he probably read my body language that I was already freaked out at $100K offer. I've never spent $100K on one offer, let alone $350K. So he probably read my body language that you don't even have to answer it now. And I'm just sitting there, the jet's landing. I just—

the intensity is building.

Couldn't sleep, you know, it just— and that brewed and that brewed. And it probably took me a couple of days to eventually get back to him and said to him, all right, yep, I mean, I mean, I'm doing this, you know.

Wow.

But the moment that happened and I transferred him the money, something that I didn't think would happen happened. And that was a shift in the identity that you're talking about, because for the first time I really felt like I was playing a bigger game properly. You know, like you talk about, you know, you have to take the action to become the person. You don't become the person then takes the action. Like the action dictates the person. And that was a life-changing moment because then I started thinking very differently. I've just felt like a different person. I said to Myron, Myron, if you don't deliver on the next 12 months for me, I've already got my transformation. Wow. Yeah, it was insane. I would highly encourage anyone—

internal shift.

Yeah, the moment you do something like that, your world will shift in ways which it's hard to describe until you actually do it, until you're actually there. Yeah.

You spoke from stage at a Funnel Hacking Live, which was in Vegas, and it was a very unique event because due to some of the disruption earlier, you know, in, in years, the ClickFunnels event, you know, had to sort of change their cadence, and then they held this, this digital online event. It was cast of the world, but yeah, Russell's inner circle, Russell Brunson's inner circle was, was there. There's probably about 100 people in that room, and you're one of the standout presenters. Legitimately, you're one of the standout presenters, right? So describe who you feel like you had to become in order to stand on a global stage like that, literally surrounded by the best of the best. Like, it does not get better than that. Who was in that room? Was some serious, like, heavy hitters in, in this space. But yet you stood on stage with such conviction and so much quality that you outshone the majority of that panel.

Thanks, man, appreciate it. That's a, that's a big compliment. That's a big compliment. There were some great speakers on that stage, so appreciate it. Uh, well, the first thing, um, I always believe that if you're being chosen to be in a room or by a mentor and you feel like you're out of depth, then lean into it because they chose you for a reason. You know, they see something in you that you don't see in yourself. So always, like, I, I— you will never get confidence first. Your confidence will always come from someone else believing in you first, period. That's why it's also important to spend time with the right people. I've never seen a person become successful by getting confidence first. I've always seen it the other way around, when someone else sees the X factor or or that thing in that person and says, we need to make that person big. It's like someone else believes in you first before you do. And most of the time, it's probably your spouse that sees your vision, that sees your gold or your gifts or whatever it is. And then it might be your mentor or your peers. Like, you always self-deprecate. That's just human beings. And so know that you're in the right place when someone else sees it. So just learn to buy into that, because at the end of the day it's not in their best interest to try to manipulate you or sugarcoat things or put you on their stages when it's not going to benefit them as well. And so I've learned to really lean on to other people's belief in me even though I don't see it in myself. And you probably have people in your life right now that you see a lot of potential in them but they don't see in themselves, and you wish that they could lean into your belief into them. And so if you can learn to lean into the belief of others that they have in you, then you'll get further ahead faster. Not from an ego point of view, but just say, what if they would— what if they were right?

Yeah, what if they're right? Yeah, they obviously see something in you for, for them to ask.

Yeah, yeah.

And request that you do the thing.

Yeah.

Whether it's the coach in a community, whether it's to stand on stage, if they're putting you in front of their audience, it's because they truly believe you're going to add value, because they would otherwise protect their, their thing.

Of course, of course.

People always need to have someone that believes in them.

Yeah, yeah.

I love the idea though that action comes before the confidence. So often people get it wrong. They think, well, I want to feel confident first that, that I can do it before I actually do it. Well, hang on, it's like saying I want to, I want to, um, kind of know that I can swim before I practice swimming. Yeah, like you literally have to do the thing and be willing to fail and, and reframe the failure in a way that is stacking lessons. And, you know, in order for you to become who you want to become, right?

Yeah.

What you spoke about on that stage was something called the Tiny Challenge. It's brilliant.

Thank you.

Describe the Tiny Challenge.

That came about— so I was sitting on gold that I didn't realize. So we've been teaching a Tiny Challenge. In short, it's, it's a marketing vehicle. So when you're marketing to clients online, you can do a webinar, a VSL, a funnel, you can do a website, book a call, setters, cold calling, you can do group challenges. And a tiny challenge is a marketing vehicle, but it's designed for the beginner that doesn't have a following. And it's a 5-day challenge done 5 calls over 5 days, generally about 30 to 45 minutes long, one-on-one. That's the key. It's one-on-one, which means you can pick up your phone, use your phone. You don't have to do the tech.

Crazy technology.

You don't have to worry about what time should I run it because it's an agreed time because it's one-on-one. The person gets huge amounts of progress. You don't have to be on camera. You don't have to have a huge following. You can just do a very simple post or reach out to your current network. It's very easy to find your first 10 people to do it on. It's very forgiving. The reciprocity is really, really high. But the reason why that became a thing was again, like, again, back to the whole proximity. So We've been teaching, we called it a one-on-one challenge, right? And for probably close to 5 years now. And I remember I met this guy named Pedro Adeo in Russell's Mastermind. Yeah, back in 2020, 2021, he was the in thing in marketing because challenges were like going crazy. And so we met, we hit it off, we became really good friends, and I came over his house. And so he was the challenge guy. And I said to Pedro, I said, Pedro, um, so, you know, I want to share with you something we do. Um, it's getting great results, you know, for the absolute beginner, because, you know, if someone hasn't done a challenge—

yeah, it's daunting to put that together. I mean, I just did one for our community and, um, we crushed it, by the way. Yeah, I haven't shared it. I haven't shared the details with you, but yeah, but the point is it does take a lot of coordination coordination and a legitimate team behind you to structure a challenge, especially if you've never done one before or you're just starting out.

Like, I believe that unless you've made a million dollars, challenges are actually very hard, extremely hard.

You're better off doing definitely something else.

Yeah, exactly. People don't realize how hard it is. And so I said, oh, most of our students, if they haven't even made the first $10K, we just do this thing called a one-on-one challenge. He's like, what's that? Oh, it's just one-on-one. He's like, do you teach up front? No, not really. They come into our world and we just show them what it is. It's like, say it again. It's a one-on-one challenge, like you and one other person. It's like, that solves everything. I said, yeah, I guess so. You know, you don't need a following, they don't need to go on camera. He's like, that's the most brilliant thing I've heard.

The simplicity.

Yeah. And he said, do you have a name for it? And I said, no, not really. Does anyone else know about this? And it— no, you're the first person I told outside our world. You got to keep it quiet. Let's figure out a name for it. And like, okay, am I on to something, Pedro? It's like, you are on to the next biggest thing in marketing. I hope you know that. I'm like, okay. So we sat down, we brainstormed, like, should I call it Mini Challenge, Micro Challenge, Tiny Challenge? Like, who's your audience? Mostly women. Yep. Tiny felt right. And he's like, yeah, that feels good too. Let's get the trademark. He referred me to his trademark lawyer, got the trademark, bought the domain for $33,000. And I'm thinking, I'm just trusting him. Yeah, because I like— he's, he thinks it's going to be the next biggest marketing vehicle. Okay, so he told me, and I spent like $15 grand on the trademarks, the lawyers, and everything like that.

Yeah, $50K deep by the end of that experience. Yeah, US.

Yes. And I'm just having to blind faith that he says, Richmond, just don't say anything to anyone because this is big. And then it was about 7 or 8 months of getting all the ducks lined up in a row for that. Finally, we've got the trademark, we've got the domain. He said launch it, and I launched it, and it became huge. And that's how I got to speak at Funnel Hacking Live and 30 podcasts last year, and, you know, and that's how we got to $10 million last year, all through Tiny Challenge. Changes.

It's brilliant because you're, you're thinking about how to solve a problem for your specific avatar, to make it so simple for them. The mistake that a lot of founders and creators make is they build a product and try to fit it to the market.

Yeah.

Whereas you, you deeply understood the pain, the frustration of your, your avatar, the challenges they're facing. And then made something that would actually get them to the transformation without it overwhelming them.

Yeah.

So they can actually start to gain some traction.

Yeah.

What are some of the results you've seen from the Tiny Challenge?

It's crazy. I was in Myron's office, and because he interviewed me about it, he thinks it's the most genius thing ever.

It could be extremely high ticket too, right? When you think about the approach, I mean, it could be paid one.

Yeah, yeah. Because beginners would do a free version because it's easy, you don't have to try to sell it. But Russell was so hooked on the idea after he's like, Richmond, this is so genius. I remember he voice clipped me when I was going back to his podcast. He said, Richard, like, this is— my head's spinning. This is the most brilliant thing I've ever heard. Like, if this was out 20 years ago, it would be a game changer, right, for the beginner. It's like, can I do one? I said, yeah, I guess you could, but I'll do a paid one because you're Russell Brunson. I wouldn't do a free one-on-one 5-day challenge. I'll do a paid one. He's like, yeah, that's what I'm thinking, a paid one. So, okay, I'm gonna do a paid one. He's like, but how do I do one? And so he literally said, Richmond, can you show me the framework? Because I want to be the perfect case study for you. And so I helped him with his first 2 tiny challenges. He charged $100K each for them, at least. And he had 36 people apply just from a normal call to action on a podcast. He said, it's going to be $100 grand, um, 5 days with me one-on-one. I hope you build out the perfect webinar.

That's how crazy. And I would think because— and that would make sense because of how intimate it is, and we talked about proximity and people of course that are, you know, 8, 9-figure, multiple 10-figure entrepreneurs, like the value they put to their time. You would think if someone legitimately wants to spend time with them, then they would pay that to have that one-on-one access for 5 days to move the needle in their business. Like if you had to solve something in particular you felt like Russell could solve or Dan Martell or someone at a level that's doing the thing you wanna do? Like if you were directly to correlate, okay, if I give 'em $100,000, they're gonna be able to 10x that investment in my business to make $1 million in the next month. Like would you do it?

Absolutely.

But that tiny challenge model gives you that one-on-one, it builds the trust, it gets you legitimately thinking about the needle movers in a very like close intimate way from a coaching perspective. And it starts that journey because the trust is there.

Exactly.

It's brilliant.

It's huge. And it's good for Russell too, 'cause he gets it done in 5 days rather than having 6 months one-on-one with someone.

If you started like 5 people off at the start of the week, by the end of the week you make $1 million, for example, you make, let's say $100K off of them, you're making $500 grand. Like it's just game changing.

It is. It's so, it can't, and I didn't design it for high ticket.

But I can see it's fit, it's purpose fit. Like I would almost say Yeah, it solves a problem for the beginner, but it also solves a problem even for someone like you, for example, with business owners that maybe need an element of life coaching but also very strategic business coaching. They're like, well, I'll pay Richmond Dinh if you can do X, Y, and Z in my business.

This other guy, Ricky Carruth, he's a really famous real estate agent in America. He's got like 2 million followers and stuff. Stuff. He was— I met him at Marianne's event and he's like, this is genius, I'm gonna do a paid one too then, because he heard about Russell's story. And I gave him my book, he literally read it in a day. He's like, man, I'm doing this, Rich. How much should I charge for it? Well, you're Ricky Carutha, I don't know, what do you think? He's like, $5,000. $5,000? No, you shouldn't charge $5,000. I want to just charge $5,000 to start off. And so he did a call to action to his list, $5,000, 5 days with me, which like a total no-brainer. Arena. He had hundreds of people put up their hand. He chose one person. He pitched them $100K off at the end of it, and they bought it. So how cool. And then he did it again. And I mean, so it's crazy.

It's great that your, your journey has led you to this point where you're already creating things that are so unique in the market, which obviously is probably just the beginning in terms of then what you're already thinking about next, right? Which I'm sure there's things already in the pipeline for you. So how would you describe then what it is that you stand for and perhaps what it is that you fight against?

Very, very good question. I actually asked ChatGPT this question to see what it would say about me yesterday. I said, hey, Chat, just what is it? Just out of the blue? Yeah, out of the blue. No joke, out of the blue. Like, wow, hey, Chat, like, knowing what you know about me, what do you think What do you think I'm against? What do you think I stand for? And it was pretty close. It was pretty close. It was pretty close. So, um, uh, it said I stand for— I don't know word for word— something around the lines of like the underdog, you know, uh, because that's, that's our movement, like the underdog movement. The person that didn't have all the cards dealt their way when they're growing up.

Yeah, um, which is most people.

Yeah, exactly. You know, the rags to riches. But the, the real thing I really, really stand for is the most underrated character trait that I think most humans look past is personal congruency. And, and that's why, you know, when I decided to become a life coach, I thought, well, every life coach is fat, broke, divorced. I could be a life coach because they're not congruent. If you're just more congruent in every area of your life, not trying to be perfect, but you're just congruent, and your relationships will go through the roof, your business will go through the roof, your brand will go through the roof. And so it's just people just not valuing that because they value their fear more than their word. You know, they will say they're going to do it, or they say they're going to be there, or say they're going to be reliable, say they're going to this, but when the time comes, it's like, yeah, I don't feel like it anymore, you know, like the flaky person. And so you can't be that. You just, you just can't be that. And so I think it's the most underrated trait that's looked past upon. And that's why on my Facebook profile you'll see my credentials. And you know how some profiles you see all the certifications and everything they've done and that, it just threw for me. I went to the University of Congruency is king. I'm a product of my own product. I eat my own cooking. That's it.

That is awesome.

Yeah.

And so what would you say you fight against?

The underdog. Um, or fight against— fight against— okay, this is really controversial, but also, um, but I'm just going to say it anyway. I call it the blue world. The blue world is the world that is designed to keep people stuck and to keep them as bee workers. And so, like worker bees, you know, just grow up and all my whole role in my life is just to get honey for the queen, which is the government, whatever it is. And so you are sold the story that you should study hard, go to university, get a blue-collar job— or sorry, white-collar job Live in the corporate world, get your first property by the age of 30, 35 with a down payment of 20% or maybe even 10%.

Pay it off in the next 30 or 40 years.

Exactly. And then when it goes up in equity, by the time you're 50, you draw out the equity and you buy units.

Downsize.

Downsize. Only 2 units. When you're old and decrepit. You got nothing.

You got nothing left.

But that's the flywheel that you sold into to live this perfect life. And it doesn't work. And not only does it work, but it's not a reflection of how reality should be. And that's the story and the lie we're told from birth. And so I'll call that the blue world. And so, you know, I was living that world up until I lost everything. So the biggest blessing was to realize that I did everything right only to fail. I studied hard. Got ducks, got to uni, became an optometrist, worked hard for 10 years, hated my life because that's life I was told I should be living, investing in property, my first property at 24, my 12th one by the time I was 31, only to lose it all at 32. And I'm thinking I did everything right, and how did I get here by doing everything right? And I mean everything right because I was the Asian good boy. I, I listened to my parents. I obeyed all the rules. I never raised my hand at school. I was not that person. And so that's when I realized at 32, this is not right. This is what I'm against. I'm against this blue world that teaches people to do everything right only to end up in retirement to realize they don't have enough.

Powerful.

Yeah.

Thank you, Richmond Dinh.

You're welcome.