The Fastest Way To Create a 6-Figure Income Without Wasting 5 Years in University - ft Sean Kelly

Okay, guys, all the way from Australia. Let's go down under. We got Richmond here today. Long flight, man.

Long flight. And I'm bummed that I'm not your first Australian on the show, so.

You're not. You're probably top 10, I'd say it is a long flight, you know.

Let's go.

I got to get out there one of these days and just film a bunch.

You should. You should, man. I'll connect you a lot of people to film with.

Where in Aussie are you?

Sydney.

Sydney. That's where all the ballers are, right? I think the average house there is like a million.

It's crazy, man. Yeah, it's about 1.2 average house, but I don't even know how people afford it these days. It's just. Even in America. Like, how do people afford this cost of living?

They just find a way with the interest rate. I don't know what the interest is in Australia is, But, like, it's 8% here right now for a house on a mortgage.

Pretty similar.

Yeah. So if you're spending a million on a house, I mean, the payments. Yeah, it's crazy, too. Were you in Sydney for a while before the market blew up?

Yeah, I grew up in Sydney. I was born there. I'm 42 now. I know it's so hard with Asians, right?

It's hard. You could have been anywhere from 20 to 50.

Dude, when I tell people I've been with my wife for 21 years, they're like, what? You look like you're 22, though.

Like, you know, that's crazy.

Yeah. Yeah.

Your wife Asian, too?

Yeah, she is. No one picks her ages as well. My mom wanted.

Oh, yeah?

Yeah.

My mom wanted me to marry Asian.

Oh. But why not? I don't know.

Just didn't fall that way. You know.

Asians love to keep it in. In house, you know?

Yeah, well, my dad's Vietnamese and. Well, my parents are Vietnamese, but my dad was like, you got to marry only a Vietnamese girl? Yeah, I'm like, that's very specific, you know?

Sounds about right. Yeah. When did you get into the online business stuff?

Eight years ago, man. I used to be an optometrist and, you know. Your background? Yeah, dentist. Optometrist, Yeah.

I just went to the dentist two days ago. Yeah, they don't make what they used to make, though.

Yeah, like optometrists, too. I mean, we can go a whole rabbit hole about the scam of the university or college industry, but, you know, you pay a couple of hundred Thousand for a five year degree only to realize that there's no jobs out there because all they're concerned about is how much people that put through university and not about demand and supply of the society.

Right. There's no job guarantee.

No, there isn't. And it's hard now with optometry because when I graduated there was only three universities in Australia that pumped out optometrists to a 20 million population. And so there's about 100 graduating per year for the whole population, which is a good number. So we got paid a lot, but now they, it's like 8x. It's like coming out. There's about seven unis, they're paying out 150 each. Almost a thousand optometrists a year now.

Geez.

And so you think about that. I mean Australia doesn't need an extra thousand optometrists per year. So yeah, if you think about going to college for something like that. Well, just be careful, that's all I'm saying.

Those are good stats to know for anyone looking at college for whatever profession, they should look at the market size compared to the degree size. Right.

100%. Especially if you're entering a degree where you cannot work internationally because a very specific degree like optometry, there's different rules and regulations in America or whatever it is.

So you can't even practice in other countries.

I wouldn't be able to practice. I mean, I can't practice now anyway because I gave up my registration.

Wow. How many years Were you in?

10 years as an optom.

Holy crap.

Gave it up.

So you were right at the finish line.

Yeah. Burnt the boats. Yeah. I just realized if I kept it then I, I didn't want to. Plan B. Yeah. But at the same time, you know, a lot of people say have a plan, like burn your boats, don't have a plan B, Go all in. You got to be smart too. You know the saying, like, you know, if you want to take the island, you got to burn the boats. Right, Right. From Tony Robbins and most. And that's true. Like you get to the shore, you burn your boat so you can't retreat. But most people burn their boats 1k from shore and so.

Yeah.

And they can't swim.

Yeah, that happened to me. I dropped out. But I was at least having a business with some cash flow first.

Yeah.

I wasn't just dropping out.

Exactly, exactly. At least have cash flow or a plan or some mentorship or something that you know is going to give you more certainty of success.

Right. So when you dropped out, where were you at?

Yeah, I dropped out. And I did have some cash savings. It's. It's a bit of an interesting story. I didn't have cash savings to really start a business. I had lost over a million dollars in the property market, and I was negative cash flow, and every dollar I was earning, I was working seven days a week just to make the repayments. And if I didn't, then I'd have to go bankrupt. After doing that for a year, I thought, I don't think I could work seven days just to pay off this loan for the next 10 years. And the easiest way for me was just to go bankrupt. And I thought, okay, well, what needs to happen to go bankrupt? I. Legal advice. I had 50k cash in my bank account left. And. And when you go bankrupt, you got to. You got to spend your cash, otherwise the bank takes it. So what do you do when you got 50k cash that you need to spend before you go bankrupt? Right. I mean, you live in Vegas and gamble it. Gamble it. I didn't want. I'm not a gambler. I don't really gamble or anything like that. But you can't buy a car because then they'll sell the car. You can't buy a bag or a watch. They'll sell a watch. And so I spent it all on personal development. Wow. Yeah.

Smart, because you can't refund that.

Exactly. And I thought, well, at least if I learn something, I get to keep what I learned. After a year of doing that, I got like, it was Tony Robbins spent drop. 20k on Tony Robbins, 25k on another personal mentor, another 5k on a life coach. And that was my whole 50k. And after a year, I started meeting a lot of people who bounced back from bankruptcy and all these stories of adversity. And I thought my situation wasn't unique. And so I built up a game plan to get it all back.

Yeah.

And eight years later, I mean, you know, I got it all back in the next couple of years, but that was the biggest blessing in disguise by spending my last 50k on personal development. Wow.

Well done, man. Well done.

Yeah.

I've made and lost it twice already. I'm 28.

Wow.

But I'm so grateful for it.

Exactly. That's crazy. Yeah. Yes.

I mean, obviously it sucked at the time, but now I learned so much through that process.

Yeah. Dude, I. I don't want to say, you know, this may sound weird, but, you know, I love failing, but you know what I'm saying? I think failing is necessary to succeed, but obviously I don't want to go through that again.

Yeah, it's necessary. I constantly look for not ways to fail, but like, just hurdles, I guess.

And I look forward to it all in. Yeah.

Yeah. Because when you're too comfortable, your growth declines 100%. Yeah. So I'm constantly seeking new challenges.

Yeah. I love it, man.

That's how you have to think these days, though, or else you're going to be behind.

You have to, you have to. You have to stay hungry because it's so competitive right now.

Yeah.

And it's so easy for anyone to compete. Compete with you, too, with social media and all these young guys, they're coming up and they're just like, it's easy for them. Got the time, they got the. I don't know if they have the resources, but they got the time and the energy, so you gotta stay on top of them.

Yeah. What I saw Hormozi just pull off, man. That reignited my motivation to Roger Bannister of the industry. Yeah. He's the Goat. I think that just cemented him as the goat.

Yeah.

I mean, he beat Harry Potter.

That's.

That's crazy.

It's exactly, exactly.

Far out.

It's just in one weekend. Yeah. Inspirational.

Yeah. I mean, it's a business book that's not even like a mainstream audience. And he still beat Harry Potter.

Yeah.

Which every kid read growing up.

Yep, yep, yep.

Shout out to him, man.

Yeah.

I mean, I've read all his books now. I just finished the new one and he's probably changed my life more than anyone I could think of.

Wow. Yeah. Wow.

What about you?

Around the corner.

Yeah, I know.

Yeah. For me it would. It would have to be Tony Robbins. I mean, I have to credit that because that was a catalyst for me to change everything eight years ago. And I mean, I've been to every single one of his events, you know, multiple times.

Wow.

And so I just, you know that that would be the one person that has personally changed my life the most. And I was blessed to meet him a couple of times.

Nice. I had his business partner Dean on a few months ago.

Yeah.

He was brilliant. I've never been to a Robins event. Which one would you recommend for a first timer?

First time, go to upw, which is Unleash the power within. Okay. And the cool thing about that is you get to walk on fire. So you're talking about challenging yourself, being uncomfortable, and you think it's all a scam. Like, do people actually Walk on hot coals. And it's funny when you see these things online, is it actually true? But you actually walk on hot coals and you do burn yourself and you do get blisters, but it's just to prove to yourself that you can push through any mindset, like stories that you're telling yourself that's going to hold you back. Wow. Yeah.

How much did that hurt?

Yeah, well.

It'S funny when pain is only painful when you're focusing on the pain and that. And at his event, yeah, it's painful at nighttime, but during the event, you don't feel it because you're so focused on the immersive event and the content. And so, like, for example, you know how kids, like, they cut themselves? They don't even know they cut themselves. They see themselves bleeding, they start crying, because then it's like, oh, now it hurts. So pain is only painful when you can focus on it. So you just. We just actually don't focus on it too much. And that's. And that's why it was okay until you get home, you go to bed, you wake up in the morning. Oh, yeah, my feet hurts now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, you're so right. Because I played basketball in a couple leagues and I'll get banged up in the game. I'll be like, whatever, I'll keep playing and then go home and shower at night. I'm like, holy shit, there's like a giant bruise on my leg.

Exactly. I didn't even know it was there.

Yeah, I didn't even notice.

Yeah, yeah.

It's pretty nuts, right? If you just focus on the present that you could kind of filter out stuff like that.

Exactly. Not saying it's easy, but I mean, just if you got something else that you're obsessing about at the time, then the pain becomes irrelevant.

Yeah.

You had the studies, too. Like, if you got, like, multiple cuts or multiple injuries, you only feel the one that's most painful. You don't feel the other two.

Interesting.

Yeah, very interesting. Wow. Yeah.

Yeah. I've never struggled with focus, but I know a lot of people do.

Yeah. Yeah.

A lot of distractions these days.

Right. Biggest enemy to success.

Yeah.

Like this. This thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm on this thing, like, seven hours a day.

Yeah. And you need it. And you need it for business and work and stuff like that and connecting with people, but it can be your biggest enemy if you're not careful.

Yeah, I'm working on it, though. I'm not really just messing around.

Yeah.

You know I'm doing DMS. Messages, calls.

Yeah, yeah, we were DMing each other just before this.

Yeah, good old WhatsApp.

Yeah, WhatsApp. Yeah.

So you don't have imessage on that? What is that, an Android?

I just, I haven't adopted Apple yet.

Oh yeah, you don't like Apple?

Not. It's just. I'm just not a tech person and you know, trying something new to me.

Yeah.

In terms of tech, like I'll just stick to what I already know.

Feel that.

So, yeah.

Using a lot of AI these days.

Yeah. We just launched Richmond AI for our coaching program and that's been a game changer because we're on a very unique marketing angle for our clients. And so Richmond AI has been a game changer and it's only going to get better.

So is that similar to Hormozy's AI where you just ask it anything and then.

That's right. That's right. It's downloaded all my IP for the last six years and it even has everything about my family, my kids. Because sometimes I'll tell stories about my family and my wife and my kids and stuff like that. And I was just testing it out one day, I thought, hey, like what's, what's Richmond's kids names? You know, and it just spat it out. It knew its ages and everything like that. So. Even those personal stuff. Because clearly I've shared personal stuff online somewhere in the last six years. That's crazy. Yeah.

I looked myself up on Perplexity yesterday and it was spitting out stuff I said on a podcast from like eight years ago. I was like, holy crap, I haven't heard of perplexity. What's perplexity? AI. Yeah, it's similar to ChatGPT.

Right, right.

So like the main ones are ChatGPT, perplexity, Claude and Grok and Gemini. Yeah, I use all five.

Yeah. Different purposes.

Yeah. So when I'm prepping for guests, I. I use all five to come up with questions and topics.

Yeah. Maybe it's because you're 28, I'm 42 and I'm a dinosaur.

Yeah. Because each one gives different answers. So I like to have a balanced approach, you know, because ChatGPT can. Yeah, ChatGPT can be biased sometimes, depending on the question.

Yeah.

Because you're also prompting it, so it's going to be biased towards your previous questions.

Right, right. So like, if you were to recommend me their second tool to use, would you say Perplexity?

I would use at least Perplexity or Cloud or Gemini. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay.

And you can literally ask it the same question on all of them and it'll be different answers.

Far out.

Yeah, it's pretty nuts.

Okay.

I like ChatGPT for summarizing books, though.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah, I'll do chapter by chapter summaries if I need to, like, get the concepts of a book real quick.

That's sick, man.

Yeah, that's sick.

All right. I gotta get onto it.

Yeah, it's nice, dude. AIs to take a lot of jobs.

It is, it is. Yeah. I mean, just even just in the States because you guys got the. The whole selfless driving thing. I mean, the whole trucking industry is.

Going to be gone in. They're done. Yeah. Because you got to pay truckers 10k a month right now to go coast to coast.

Exactly. And they can't work 24 7.

Yeah. They got to sleep.

Yeah, exactly. Sleep, eat, go to the bathroom. And they will make mistakes.

And there's way less accidents too, with the self driving. So from a business point of view, it makes sense to replace them. Human error is what causes accidents for sure.

For sure. Business safety, everything. Productivity, reduce the cost of deliveries, everything.

Yeah, I know. Law firms are not hiring as much right now because they're replacing paralegals with someone like a kid like me that can use AI dentists. They're using AI to analyze your dental scans now.

Yeah. To diagnose and create the treatment plan.

Yeah. It's crazy. Like it can identify the smallest cavity that a human can't see with their eye.

Can't even imagine what it's doing in optometry now too. Same thing. Like, there's no need for like actual skilled, like optometrists or anything. It's just if you're just a person that can push a button and prescribe something. That's it. Yeah.

That's why personal branding is going to be really important. Yeah.

Yeah. Talking about that, the future, like, personal branding. It's funny because you probably maybe research, like got a chat, like, who are the top five podcasters in. In Las Vegas will come up for sure.

Probably. Yeah. Whenever I go to a new city, I use AI and determine who are the most influential people here, who would make the best podcast guests. And then I stack my days based off those answers I film with them. It's so fast, like.

Yeah, exactly. And people trust it. And if you're not in the top five or top three, then that's.

Yeah, yeah.

It's kind of game.

Yeah. At this point, I'm going After the top people like billionaires, most influential people, guys like Russell Brunson, who's a mentor of yours, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Working on some cool projects together. I spent a lot of time with him.

That's awesome, man.

That's why I'm here pretty much every month.

That's sick. How did you get close with him? Were you part of his inner circle?

Yeah, I joined his inner circle four years ago. And then over the years we got to know each other really well. And then he had me on his podcast for this tiny challenge framework that we do. It just blew him away. Then he tried it himself and he made 200 grand from it.

Holy crap.

Just from one little tiny challenge. It's a one on one challenge. So five days. So most people do like a five day group challenge. So it's, we do this one one on one, five day challenge. And he thought, I'm going to try and he did it twice and made 200 grand. Wow.

So could you explain what the tiny challenges?

Yeah, it's a framework for the beginner coach to make the first dollar online. And so when you think about marketing, so if anyone here is watching and they're thinking about, okay, how do I make my first dollar online? No matter what you're selling, but this is mostly in the info product space. You could run a webinar like Hormozi did a webinar and it was like a marathon of a webinar. Three days or whatever it was you could do. It was really a three day event. Really?

Yeah. 72 hour event.

Yeah, exactly. So you could do a three day event like Hormozi did. You could do a 90 minute webinar, you could do a five day challenge. But all those are one to many. You could do a VSL, you could try cold DMing, you could create your own podcast, launch a YouTube channel. Imagine you're a beginner who's never made a dollar online before. All of those strategies are extremely overwhelming and most people don't start or if they try it, they fail. It's not because they're not good, it's just the strategies not catered for where they're at in business. So. And they get destroyed by it. And so a tiny challenge is a challenge done one on one with you and another person. Five days, five calls, one on one. And you imagine that you don't have to worry about tech because you just call them on your phone. You don't have to worry about filling up a room. You don't have to worry about a launch date, because if you schedule the one on one calls at your convenience, you don't have to worry about learning how to speak because you're speaking to just one person. If you're not even clear on your offer, that's okay. You get clarity because you hear everything they want and need on the first couple of calls. The best way to make your first dollar online. And you don't need a big list because you can find two or three people to get started. And the average conversion is one in three.

Wow.

It's crazy. If it's a thousand dollar offer, that's the first thousand dollars online.

That's brilliant. Yeah. So it's basically one on one coaching.

It is. But done in five days, wrapped around a five day challenge.

Okay. Yeah, I might have to look into that because a lot of people ask me for podcasting advice and advice on going viral.

Yeah.

You know, I don't see too many good offers around that.

Yeah, that's. That's the best way to get started. And you get clarity on your own frameworks. If you're like, I don't even know what to teach or I'm not sure what I'm good at. And you get clarity. Now you're not sure on your who or your, you know, your avatar. And so if you're like, I've got. I could coach, like women who've suffered from trauma. I could coach single moms. I could coach corporate women. Well, just do all three in a tiny challenge and you'll find out who you want to coach.

Do you believe in niching down or do you like a broad audience?

I'll start with niching down for sure. For sure. It's so. It's so hard to go broad unless you've got a personal brand. Like your podcast right now is broad.

But I'm sure I started at niche.

Exactly.

First hundred episodes were marketing business.

Exactly, exactly. But as you grow your brand, you can afford, like Joe Rogan, you know?

Yeah.

And go. Anyone. Really?

Literally anyone.

Yeah, literally. But you have to start that way. And even when people look at Tony Robbins. Oh, Tony Robbins does business mastery. He does life mastery. He does relationships. He does. But he didn't start that way. So.

Yeah, same with Hormozi, I feel like. But now he could give any business advice. Doesn't matter. It could be a plumber.

Yeah.

He could give advice. It's impressive.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So he now has gone to multiple industries, which is pretty cool.

And it's. It's solid advice for no matter what business? Because I've seen his Q and A's and it's like super impressive. He has these workshops in Vegas. Yeah, I might go to one right now. Yeah, it's literally right now, every week, 100 people, $5,000 each. Clockwork. He's. I did the math cuz someone made a video cuz he also upsells there. He's doing $100 million just off the workshops a year. Isn't that insane?

That's big. It's. It's hard to imagine.

No, it's literally insane. Like cuz so many people that go to that come on my, on my show and they tell me it's. It's nuts, dude. Like, I don't know if that's possible in Australia.

Yeah. No way. No way. America's got the audience.

Yeah. Would you consider like moving here now?

I got a family.

Yeah.

I love here. This is my second home. But real home is Sydney.

Is it older money out there? Is it like kind of corporate money?

It is, it is Sydney. Well, it has to be. That's the only logical reason how people can afford property.

Right.

You know, because $1.2 million, average house price for average income of only 90,000.

Oh my God.

It doesn't even make sense.

Yeah, that's a 12X.

Yeah. Yeah. So when people need a deposit for a home, they're going to put down 250k. They're getting old money from somewhere. Right. Getting it from their parents who bought a property when it was 20k like 30 years ago.

You know, you said when we first started you lost a million. So how did you first get that when you were, you were in university, right?

That's right. Yeah. Well, bought my first property when I was 24.

Yeah.

Just out of university. And I built up a really good portfolio to 12 properties.

Wow.

And the funny thing is I was chasing money as a young person without any real purpose to what the money could do for me. And the biggest lesson I learned, like if. If money does not have a purpose, then there is no purpose for money. And so most people chase money and then when they get it, they don't know what to do with it. Like when a dog chases a car.

That happened to me too.

Yeah, exactly.

I lost it all.

You will if you don't have a purpose.

Yeah. I didn't know how to spend it.

Yeah, me too. That's exactly what happened. So I built up like over $1 million portfolio and there was one property where I could have cashed out. They said, oh, it's a good time to sell it. I'm like, and I sold. And I could have sold that one property and we could have got 400 grand cash profit. And I was 29 and I thought, what am I going to do with 400,000? I wasn't into cars or anything like that. Had my own home. You know, we lived underwater. And so I thought now still stuff. I didn't exit because I didn't even know what to do with the money. And then a couple of years later, that went down. I missed my opportunity and I got a bit frustrated and I wanted to double down and I bought my next three properties in mining towns, which is super high risk. Yeah, they were like getting crazy cash flow, but high risk. And so within a year and a half, the whole mining town industry collapsed in Australia.

Was that gold mining or iron ore? Iron ore, yeah.

Australia's famous for iron ore.

Okay.

And then my properties that I bought, I bought three properties that total to about 1.4 mil. And overnight, pretty much that went down to 200,000.

Holy crap. Did the government come in and shut those. The mining sites down or something?

No, no. It's just demand and supply of global economy. China stopped buying iron ore. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

That's nuts.

Yeah.

Mining scares me. There's a guy in Arizona, they spent like 2 billion setting up this gold mine. And then the government was like, yeah, you can't mine.

Yeah, yeah. That's crazy. Yeah, you just. Those things are so high risk, so. But I was young, I was like looking for the shortcut and I didn't have a purpose for money. And so I think, you know, if you're young and you're looking for a shortcut, like I always say, the right way, like the shortest way is the right way. Just do it the right way.

Right.

Have that perspective. And so I lost everything. And that's, that's how I lost my entire net worth at that time. And then I had 50 grand cash and, you know, story and. Yeah.

Did you have a little identity crisis after that?

Massively. Because being like, I was the successful kid in my family. The one that. One that made it.

Yeah, yeah.

And you know, in the Asian culture, they prop you up as the golden child. And I was a golden child.

Man. It wasn't the golden child.

You rebuilt fast, though, so well done.

Yeah, yeah, thanks for that. Yeah. Rebuilt fast. And 10 times, 50 times more than, you know, as an optometer, I was making pretty good money. 130 grand a year.

Not bad.

Yeah. Doing pretty well now.

You make that a month, though.

Exactly, exactly. It's like. Yeah, a lot more than a month these days. Like, it's just crazy. It's probably even that a week, not a. Yeah.

Holy crap.

Yeah.

My accountant just sent me the last month, and it was like. And we didn't run any events this month. I've been here for almost two weeks, and it was like, almost 600 grand.

Holy crap.

That's pretty good. How did we do that?

Dude, well done. So the business can run without you.

Yeah, yeah.

That's what. That's where I see it. As a podcaster, it's a little tough, but that's where you want to be when you go to Exit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's so much more opportunity, too. Like, I was with Andy Elliot yesterday, and I just signed up with him to help bid out our sales team because I didn't really have any outbound.

No outbound with 600k a month.

I know.

And you don't run ads too, right? Oh, we do.

We do run ads. We've got an evergreen webinar, and that's kind of.

Right, Got it. Got it. Because I saw you on another show saying you used to do a lot of organic.

Exactly, exactly. Yeah. That's how we started. We started running ads about 18 months ago. Got it Going hard, but, like, you know, handy's like, you don't have an outbound team. Like. Yeah. It's like, you. You know how much money's on the table. Like, I know. We. We sold 900 books last week.

Yeah.

And every book buyer leads their phone number, and they're like, the hottest leads, I bet. Yeah. And then it's like. Did you call them?

I don't have.

I didn't have any dialogue.

You're probably sitting on, like, eight figures in leads.

Exactly.

Because Hormozi. Imagine how many leads he got from his book because he was collecting the email on everyone.

Exactly. And probably phone numbers. If you put in your phone number, too. Like, I mean, and a book buy is the hottest lead because it's so intimate. Like, they. They have their book on their bedside table.

Yeah.

Your book is on their bedside table. And so. Yeah. And I know that. I just. I don't know. Yeah, that's the next level for us.

I do 100k month just off cold outbound.

Yeah.

Warm outbound. If I had the leads you had. Yeah. It'd be. You'd be saying you're probably sitting on millions, minimum.

Yeah. Don't. Don't tell me.

I mean, now you can. You could probably get to a mill a month once you get that going with Andy.

Exactly. Without generating more leads. Because we already got the leads.

Yeah. No, that's impressive. So what's your offer? Like, how much is it?

We got a 1200. That's our front end.

Got it.

And the whole goal of 1200 is just to pump that into ads again. Like we don't want to make any money. Yeah. And the back ends at 30k.

30K. And that's one on one coaching.

No, no, no, no, no. It's a group coaching model.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

30K for group coaching.

Yeah.

Well done.

Well, I've got my one on one clients here and there. I'm not one on one, but my 100k clients sitting here.

Yeah.

And there's no one on one. Yeah.

Wow. Well done, dude. Because group coaching is usually way less. So you're really providing value if you're charging that much.

Tons of value. Yeah. We pride ourselves on the community we bring and, and, and the outcomes we help them achieve.

That's awesome.

Our average client results are like crazy good.

Yeah.

Yeah. Crazy good.

It's a good offer because the margins are high too, for your clients and for you.

They are, they are, they are.

Yeah. Anytime you're in the info space, it's really just the customer acquisition cost.

Right? That's right. That's right. Yeah. And I learned this from Myron Golden. So you got to really start selling outcomes. And once you realize that you're not selling your time, you're selling outcomes. That's when you can no longer trade time for money. But Myron invented this insane offer called the anyway offer, where you don't have to trade any more of your time, but if you're doing something, you're there anyway, then that's when you sell an offer. So, for example, I've got my clients here with me and I'm in Vegas. Anyway, let's come and hang out. So we get to hang out together for the whole day today, tomorrow, and say they're with me for arguably, you know, total time, maybe 20 hours.

Wow.

And I mean, 20 hours, that's. That's like 21 on one calls over 20 weeks. They get to do it in two days. I'm here anyway.

Yeah, they could ask you anything.

Exactly. And we'll break it down and we get to hang out and you build a deeper connection and relationship. And so that's how you scale. Like high. Super high ticket coaching without selling your time because you're there anyway.

You're not changing your lifestyle.

Exactly.

You're already doing it no matter what.

Exactly. And we're going to go have lunch later and we're like, how can I help you with your business where you start and do it?

I need to start doing that. I could probably get a couple people to just shadow me around all the.

That's the word, shadow.

Yeah, yeah.

We bought this domain called shadowseat.com and I bought like shadowrichman.com so you could buy like. Like shadow, shadow whatever dot com. Like shadow digital podcast dot com, shadow me dot com. Right. And so that would be like. That's what we do now. We sell. We sell shadow seats.

That's brilliant. I know Tai Lopez, who's been on. He does that with billionaires. So he'll pay them like 100k or something for like one time a year.

Yeah, yeah. To shadow.

Shadow them.

Yes. So good.

Ask them. Whatever. And he said it's the best ROI ever.

I agree. And you see how they actually operate. Like, you see how they actually operate?

Because that's how I learn. I learn through experience. I want to, like, see it with my eyes. Like, books are great. Like, I learned some stuff from books and podcasts and stuff. But when you're there in person, it's hard to replicate that.

Yeah. You gotta get your attention by shadowshawn.com.

Yeah, yeah, I gotta get that. I definitely gotta get that.

Yeah, Yeah.

I love what you said about sell outcomes.

Yeah.

That kind of like reshifted how I'm gonna go about things.

Yeah, yeah. And you gotta think about your time and outcomes as well. Like most people think. Cause for example, when people trade time for money, like, for example, I charge $500 an hour or 10,000 an hour. Even 20,000 an hour. The problem with 20,000 an hour, it's still limited on your time. And so when you start charging outcomes, it doesn't really matter. Here's the outcome. I can help you make a million dollars, and here's the way to do it. So. And I just. Just pay me $100,000 and I'll give you that hack or that tweak or that. Wow, that's brilliant. I mean, and that could take 15 minutes. It could take 10 if there's no time to it. And so when you charge outcomes is an unlimited money you can make because there's no limit on time.

That is brilliant. Yeah. I want to see Myron talk. I heard he's one of the best speakers on stage.

He's amazing. He's amazing. Yeah. I've been in his inner circle for the last six months, and he's. He's brilliant. Dude. Yeah.

Generating millions from some of his talks on stage, I heard.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's done a lot for Russell as well. Like, he's arguably, I would say, one of the best stage closers on the planet. He's just naturally gifted at closing a room. Yeah, yeah. If you. If you get an opportunity to see him close on stage, he. He. He gets people to stand up. He walks them around the room, and he's like. I don't know. He's like Moses. Just party. Like, you know, people literally, like, it is just very artful.

I love that. Is that a skill of yours? Can you close some stage?

I can, but not like him. I close my style.

Yeah.

Yeah. And that's what I think. Anyone who's learning how to sell, I don't think there's one way to sell. You need to sell on what is most natural right to you. And that's the mistake I've made. I've tried to sell. I've tried to sell like Russell. I've tried to sell like Grant.

Yeah. Grant's aggressive.

Yeah, exactly. And it's not me. And I've even tried to sell like Myron.

Yeah.

But then I've learned I need to sell the way I sell, using the same beliefs that they have. But do it my way.

Right.

And that's the thing. You need to model beliefs, not model behavior.

I agree. People want authenticity these days, and a lot of people just copy each other. And you could sniff that out so quick.

Exactly.

Super fast these days.

Yeah. And that goes to your point about personal branding. And you can read someone within five minutes on how authentic they are. And, like, very, very quickly. Very quick. Yeah.

Because of podcasts, I think. Because you can't fake yourself for an hour.

No, no. It'd be very hard.

Super hard.

Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, that's why Kamala lost the election. Honestly, you were paying attention in Australia to that election.

I follow. I didn't even know who's the leader in Australia.

This is how much I love American politics. Like, my three daughters are named Kennedy, Regan, Carter.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. That's how much I love America. And. And so. And even my brothers, two of them live in San Francisco.

Yeah.

And one of my brothers just had a kid named the kid Lincoln. Damn. You know, so they're all under US Presidents, but I was following American politics, like, during the election period, like crazy. It's so good.

Yeah.

Just to see the marketing behind it and this strategy and how Trump actually won and, you know, strategic partnerships with Musk and then getting on Joe Rogan and getting on PPD and you know, just. Yeah, Checkmate.

He ran a way better marketing campaign.

Yeah, yeah. And then come out. But he's competent too. Like what you're saying you can't fake it for three hours, right?

Yeah.

And she jumps on and rough.

Really tough to watch some of those shows she did. I tried to give it a fair shot and I just couldn't do it.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, you had her on.

No, I didn't have her on, but I was like, I try to be open minded when it comes to politics. I have on both sides of my show. So I was watching her episodes and it just wasn't resonating with me because she wasn't being authentic. Yeah. You know.

Yeah.

American politics, it affects the whole world. That's why people in other countries pay attention to it.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I saw it from both angles. Like, how's it going to affect. Because we run a lot of business in America.

Right.

But also from an entertainment level and breaking down, like, how do people lead and how do people win over a mass market and how do people market themselves and get themselves seen and get attention? It's just really fascinating, especially when you got a billion dollars of budget behind you. Man. Man. What would you do if you had a billion dollars of marketing spend?

I would run clippers every minute of the day. Are you familiar with that model?

Yeah, I only learned it recently.

Wap and stuff.

Yeah. Because you had Andrew. Andrew Tate invent clipping, like pretty much.

He did the affiliate clipping model. So he wasn't even paying up front to the clippers, which is mind blowing. He would only give them a percentage of what they generated, which is crazy. But I pay mine based. So all my clippers are performance based. I only pay them based off every hundred thousand views they generate me.

Yeah.

So I spent 50k a month on that. So if I had even more money, you would see my face on. Every time you scroll in on social media, Mr. Beast and all the big guys are spending hundreds of thousands on it every month.

Wow.

Yeah.

I'm missing some opportunity here.

Yeah. The trick is to figure out how to monetize it.

Yeah, exactly. Because what's the point in getting views.

Yeah. Because all the views you can't like target like who's seeing it. It's just like on your for you page. So it's not like good lead, good quality leads.

Yeah.

So you Got to figure out, like, a funnel. But yeah, Tate figured it out. That's why he was everywhere.

Yeah, yeah. Smart man.

Yeah, very smart. I think it was also really good timing because a lot of men were lost when he was coming out and he was giving advice to men, and then the whole.

People were sick and tired of the whole work movement and. Yeah, yeah, it's great timing.

That's what I noticed with really successful businesses is timing.

Yeah.

You know, you got to have, like, a really good product for that time period.

Yep. That's a bit of grace working in your favor as well. Like, just right time, right place, and you just took full advantage of it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. But for you, you're, like, helping people make money, which I tell people is like the ultimate skill. If you can figure out how to do that, like, you don't even have to sell at that point.

Yeah, exactly.

Your customers will do your marketing for you.

Selling money at a discount.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a tough skill to, like, master, but you can figure it out. Like, for me, I came from the crypto industry.

Yeah.

And I was, like, really good at finding the right coins. So that's how I built relationships with celebrities and influencers because I could help them make some.

Awesome, man.

Awesome.

Because I don't want to do with the money. They're good at doing what they do, but not investing.

Hey, most people suck at investing. I still suck, to be honest.

Yeah.

Like, it's a different skill set.

Yeah. 100%.

Like, I'm good at crypto, but I've lost money in so many other investments.

Yeah.

I just stick to crypto now.

Yeah. I've made a decision to not even focus on investing anymore. Like, I've even stopped the whole property game.

Really?

Yeah. I mean, the last property I bought was about probably four years ago, so I was still. I still made a lot of mistakes, and I'm not going to stop investing in property. But for me, I realized that if I just focus all my energy on one thing, which is business, then it's going to be high ROI. For example, you could buy a $500,000 property now, and if it goes up every 10 years, on average, it doubles. So in 10 years, that $500,000 probably be a million. In another 10 years, it'll be worth 2 million. And so 20 years, your 500k investment is worth 1.5 million extra in 20 years. And it. If it's cash flow positive, then you're lucky. But most of the time, it's not Right now, if you. And to buy a $500,000 property, you need to put down 100 grand for that, at least.

Yeah.

And so I'd rather put down 100 grand in a. Learning a skill set, such as learning how to sell or market. And that hundred grand that put down now will allow me to make an extra million dollars a year every year.

100%.

And that's $20 million.

Yeah, 100%.

Do the math. 20 million or one and a half mil.

Like, I'd rather 20 million all day. And the real estate money, you're not even factoring in inflation. It's the value of the dollar going down.

Exactly. And interest, everything. And the government could just change the rule and you're done.

Yeah. I would argue you might even lose money because when you factor that in and all the repairs on the house.

Yep, yep. People don't realize when you index it like that, it's actually. You don't actually make much.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's like, calculators that show you all this. And it's actually better to rent right now for most people.

Yep. I am all for rent. That's another. I mean, Grant Cardone is like, you know, he's got, like, how many thousands of properties and it's still all for renting. Yeah, yeah. Even Tai Lopez, like, I mean, it just.

Right now it makes sense. Maybe if interest rates were 3% again, it would. It's better to buy. But I ate 9, 10%.

Yeah. People just have this illusion that, oh, my gosh, I'm a homeowner. But you're broke.

Yeah. And you don't actually own the home, too.

Yeah, you don't. You don't. Especially in Australia because it's owned by the Crown.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, really?

Yeah. Like, the Queen could just change the rules. And certain properties where it's like, you know, you get a hundred year, like, lease, and it's just. It's just another story altogether. Yeah, yeah.

Do politics out there ever affect your business?

Not so much. Not so much because we have an online business and it's international, so we don't really get affected by one particular thing. In Australia now, even interest rates don't really affect us too much.

That's good.

Yeah. It's only the currency, and the dollar exchange between Australian dollar and US Dollars probably had the biggest bearing on us.

Okay, what's that rate at?

Right now it's 65 cents.

Holy shit.

Yeah.

That's a lot.

Well, depends which way you look at it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So.

So Like a dollar right now? Yeah. A dollar here is 65 cents there.

60. A dollar. A dollar Australian is 65 cents US.

Oh, the other way around.

Okay. Yeah.

Okay.

So we get. We need to trade more than I need to get less here.

Got it.

Yeah.

Oh, so for you, it's good if you're getting paid in US dollars. Okay.

We charge you US dollars, right? Yeah.

So you're getting like a 1.4x on your money then.

Yeah. 1.5.

Nice.

Yeah. So when we charge a 30k program, 30k US, we're actually getting 45.

Wow.

Yeah.

That's cool.

It's pretty cool.

That is the benefit of living in, like, another country. Especially like Thailand.

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh.

They're like billionaires.

I went out there and my pad Thai was like a dollar and it was like the best pad thai I've ever had too.

So, so good. Give me two.

It was nuts. Like, if you make like 100k a year there, you're like a baller.

You're a king. Yeah, yeah.

It's pretty nuts, right?

A dollar pad.

Sorry, out here, 100k a year, you can barely get a house and afford your lifestyle, especially if you're married with kids.

Yeah. And the average meal here is like $20, you know?

Yeah. Oh, at least. Yeah. Chipotle is like 15 bucks now. When I was growing up, it was seven. Oh, wow.

Yeah.

Everything's just going up. People don't want to think about it, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, filling up my car is 150 bucks now.

Jeez.

When I was a kid, it was like 20, 30 bucks. Far out. It's nuts, dude.

That's crazy.

Yeah, it's super nuts.

Dollar's good now.

Yeah. How can people watching this start their tiding challenge and work with you and everything?

Yeah. So the tiny challenge I was talking about before, easiest way to get started. Even if you got five followers, reach out to your five followers and think of a problem that you can help them. Like you solve for them in the next five days and just say, just send them a dm. Hey, look, I've been thinking. Hey, John. Hey, Mary. Hey, Tim. I've been thinking about, you know, doing this five day challenge one on one. You know, I can only fit in three people to do this because it's one on one. And I see you have this problem here with, I don't know, your wife or your marketing or whatever it is. And would you be up for taking on this offer that I have? It's free. There's no charge for it. The only thing I ask is that you show up to the five days and do the homework and, and you get started. That's. That's how you start off with Tiny Challenge.

So it's free the first five days?

Yep, it's free. It's. It's like a webinars free. It's like Hormozy's launch was free.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, you didn't. I'm pretty sure you didn't need to buy the booking watch on YouTube.

Yeah, it was live on YouTube.

Yeah, exactly. So there's like, people say, oh, should I charge for that? Well, why would you? Like, you're the best marketers in the world. Do things for. They do sales events for free.

Right.

And the Tiny challenge is a sales event, but it's done one on one. So especially when you're starting out and you've got no credibility, then why would you charge? And you don't even know how to sell it yet. And then if you charge for it, then you're going to have to learn how to sell it. And then, you know, that's another complexity added into it. So all of our students who do a Tiny Challenge, they do it for free. And at the end they present a 2, 3, 4, $5,000 offer. And then the person says, yes, because of reciprocity is so high.

Yeah. You said one out of three close. Yeah, super high. So if you get 100 people on there. 33.

Exactly. Like if you did. If you did, say 10 tiny challenges in a month, which is very easy to do, and you close three into a $3,000 offer, that's 9K.

Wow.

And you just got started and you didn't have to learn tech. You don't have to speak to an audience. You didn't have to do any launch. You have to worry about not knowing what your offer was or clearing your nature. You have to have big audience, like so many benefits. And you all can get started. Right. Right now.

Wow. We'll talk after this. Because I've never done a webinar or anything.

Yeah.

And I feel like. Yeah, yeah. It's hard, but I feel like with the right offer, it's not too bad.

Yeah. So for a person like you, you could do a paid Tiny Challenge because you got credibility. You've got a brand. Like Russell Brunson. When I explained to him, he was like, that's so cool. And he's like, can I do one? I was like, well, if you can do one, do a paid one. Because he's got a big brand. And so he did a paid one on one five day challenge, charge 100 grand for it. And he did his call to action. 36 people applied and I'm gonna take on two. He took on two and made 200 grand. At the end of it, he was Gonna pitch a 250k offer, but he decided he didn't want to do it anymore. He's like, I've got my hundred grand. I'm happy.

So he could have made even more.

Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah.

200 grand in a couple hours. That ain't bad.

That's right. Money.

Yeah. That's not bad at all. And he could probably do that once a month if you wanted to.

Yeah, exactly. So if you wanted to do one, I'll do a paid one. Say, who wants five calls of me one on one over. Five days over. Like, I'm going to do a five day challenge to help you. I don't know. I don't feel a podcast or whatever.

It is, get guests, get views. There are so many angles I could, I could do.

Exactly, exactly. I'll tell you this cool thing I did. Right? So talking about shadow seating.

Yeah.

So I was on Andy Elliott's podcast yesterday and. And since I was there, anyway, I said to Andy, like, how much is one on one time with you? Because I want to pick your brain. Like, he. He made $160 million last year.

What?

Yeah.

He's doing that in revenue or.

Yeah, top line.

You know, it's still crazy.

500K a day. A day. You know, and spent the whole day with. Or not the whole day with him yesterday, six hours with him. This is making 500 grand a day.

Yeah.

And I just want to figure out, like, what is he doing? How's he doing? And he only started in 2019.

Wow.

You know, this is relatively new.

Yeah. Five years.

Yeah, very new. And so I just asked him, how much is your one on one time? It's like 50 grand.

But I'll do it for 45k discount.

5K discount. Because I'm traveling all the way. I don't know. I don't know why he said that, but so I did it for 45 grand for one on one time with him. And I asked him, can I get your permission with our one on one time that I get some of my clients to shadow through zoom, Because I was in his office.

Smart.

And I'm going to charge them a small fee. It's not going to be free. Like, they have to pay to Shadow. And then whatever I'm learning, they can kind of extrapolate. And the win for you is that they don't get to ask you questions. So it's not going to cost you any more time or effort or energy. But I'm going to let you pitch.

To them and it's like, okay, smart.

You're paying me 45 grand to let me pitch to your audience? Yeah, that's right. I'm paying you money to help you make money. And it's like, shouldn't it be the other way around? No, not really. So I sold 51 shadow seats for a grand each. Wow.

You just posted on your Instagram and.

No, it's selling to my clients.

Oh, okay.

Yeah. My existing Raven fan clients. Got it. Yeah, yeah. So I didn't even post it publicly. Wow.

So you could have made 100k probably.

Yeah, I just wanted to make 45 minimum just to break your cost and so. But I sold 51 seats for a grand each.

So you made money.

I got paid to get one on one coaching from Andy Elliot.

That is brilliant.

I loved it.

Yeah, that's. You turned it into a win, win, win.

Yes.

For you, for Andy and for the customers. That is brilliant.

Yep. And that's why I bought shadowrichmond.com and you got to get shadow shadowshawn.com dude.

That could be a whole business model. It that, that alone if you wanted.

To buy, say, I don't know, one on one from anyone really. One on one with Grant Cardone I think was 100 grand. I think.

Yeah. Hormozy paid it. It might have been 250, but. Yeah, yeah, something like that.

And let's just say you did, you bought some one on one time for whatever the price is. And hey, I'm selling, you know, 50 seats for five grand each to watch me get coach and people will buy that and you just self liquidated.

That's brilliant. Yeah. Because 1000 isn't even that much.

Yeah. Otherwise the alternative, you got to pay 50,000. Yeah, yeah.

You know, yeah. To learn from someone doing 160 million a year, I would pay a thousand for that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was crazy. The price was nuts. That's nuts.

Yeah. He hate him or love him? Because I know he's controversial. You can't deny his revenue.

No, no, he is legit the real deal.

Yeah, that's impressive. I did not know he was doing numbers like that.

Yeah.

And I love the culture he's built too.

They will die and bleed for him. So there's a lot to learn for. For that.

Everyone's got a six pack, man.

Dude, I had a gym. I did a gym session with him yesterday. I knew that day was coming. So I got a PT in the last eight weeks. Six pack. I got. Almost there. I got a four pack.

Wow. In eight weeks?

Yeah, I'm not that. I mean, I wasn't that big anyway, so that's.

Send me that ab routine, please. I need that. Wow, Eight weeks. You got a four pack.

Yeah, yeah, Eight weeks.

That's really good.

Mostly diet, man.

Oh, okay.

It's not. It's. It's mostly.

Did you go carnivore?

Yeah, mostly protein.

Yeah.

Like, I was doing about 2, 000 calories a day, but about 1600 was just protein.

Yeah, that's how it is.

Yeah.

You eat too much carbs, you get fat, you know?

Yeah, yeah. And so I was just on ketosis.

Yeah, yeah.

Just burnt.

Yeah, I just took a ketone shot.

Nice.

That shit works, man.

Yeah, it's so good. Yeah, yeah. And I like meat, so it was pretty easy to do.

Yeah. You're known for wagyu out there, right? In Australia?

Yeah. It's running wagyu.

They got that in the restaurants over here.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Good old wagyu, man. Well, dude, this has been great. Anything else you want to close off with here?

Yeah, well, to anyone watching right now, like, I mean, they're always probably thinking, you know, how can I get further ahead? Like, what's the first step I need to do? Always ask who, not how, who you are, the average of who you spend time with, period. And I know a lot of young people are watching this. They get a lot of, I guess, significance from being the smartest or the highest achiever or the most popular in their group. If you're the most popular in your group, you are in the wrong group. You need to be number five.

Yeah, you need to be the.

You need to. When I say least popular, I don't mean like the least like. Or the biggest loser or anything like that. I mean, like, you need to be the poorest kid in your top five, which means you need to be okay with hanging out people that are better than you because you're gonna feel insecure and you gotta resolve the story of why they want me in their top five when I'm the least successful. They want you because you're hungry, you're driven, you're willing, you're coachable, you want to learn, and you got that desire within you that you know, like, people like us when they. We see a young person who's just willing like that, we just. We just want to hang around them because their energy is infectious.

Yep.

And so never sell yourself short on your own energy, even if you haven't got the physical, tangible track record. Find a group of people that's gonna lift you up, and don't try to be the number one in your top five ever.

I love that. Such good advice, dude. That will save people decades.

Yeah.

Of effort.

Yeah.

You know, if they just do that advice alone.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, dude, we'll link your Titan challenge below. Stay tuned. I might launch one with Richmond as well. And when you're back in Vegas, hit me up, man.

Awesome, man. Awesome. Love it.

See you guys.