Women Warned Home Working May Ruin Their Careers

Women warned working from home could ruin their careers. Now, I read this article in BBC, breaking in the last 24 hours, and the working from home debate has been raging in our office ever since the lockdown started. I would love your thoughts. I will read you what I believe to be an employment dilemma And, um, interesting how it's become more about women than all, but again, would love your thoughts. So, um, let me read it to you, let me have your thoughts in the comments, and let's discuss this because I think it's important. Um, but, um, it's kind of breaking news that women are being warned now that working from home may ruin their careers. Women who work mostly from home risk seeing their careers stall now workers are returning to the office in large numbers, according to the Bank of England economist Catherine Mann. Now, by the way, um, I would love to interview Catherine Mann on this subject. I think there's so much to learn from this. Like I said, the debate of working from home or working in the office has been raging in my company. On the one hand, working from home got us through COVID, On the other hand, are you missing out on office interaction and engagement, career progression, education? Are you not being seen as much by your boss, his manager, you know, your managers and your bosses? And maybe, you know, they say out of sight, out of mind, so maybe your career prospects could be being damaged if you're working from home. If you're an employer, do you really think everyone's fully doing an 8-hour day? At home. However, if you've got children and, and, you know, you have care requirements, maybe it's a good thing. Anyway, let me carry on and read it. So, um, women who work mostly from home risk seeing their careers stall. Now workers are returning to work, um, in the office in large numbers, according to the Bank of England economist Catherine Mann. She said office interaction was vital to advancing companies but many women were still tied to home working. So let me know what you think. I believe— I'm just going to have to chuck my thoughts in here— but I believe energy in an office is really important, and if half the team are working from home, it's hard to get that. I believe sometimes you just need to go and speak to someone, and if they're working from home and you can't get in touch with them for hours, then that's not always easy. But of course, the reason this article has come out is because, you know, many women are having to look after their children at home. So Catherine Mann said it was a particular issue for mothers facing school disruptions and difficulty accessing childcare. Earlier this year, Rishi Sunak warned about young people and their careers by working from home, and the online communication was unable to replicate the spontaneous office conversations that were important for recognition and advancement in many workplaces. Businesswoman Justine Roberts, co-founder of the Mumsnet website, agreed that there was a risk women's careers could suffer from not being in the office. Well, I actually just want to say it is the same for men. Men's careers could be at risk to the same degree that women's careers could be at risk if, um, you know, you're working from home. The angle of this article is because they, um, suggest that more women than men need to work from home because obviously they're raising their children, etc. Um, if anyone can connect me up with Catherine Mann, who wrote this article, who is Bank of England economist, I would love to have a discussion with her about this. I have been wanting to talk about work from home versus working in the office forever. I haven't really had an opportunity, to be honest. My MD, who's a woman— probably 60% of my, um, senior team are women, just saying— this isn't for me. It's not for me really a gender issue. It's become a gender issue here. For me, it's really about work from home or work in the office issue. Um, but now I get a chance to speak about it and actually let my feelings be thought. Um, and I, I think your career progression is challenged if you work from home more unless you have a remote kind of role— software, systems, IT, etc. That can be done remotely, but you've probably got to work twice as hard, um, to get the same notoriety, if you like, to be seen. Um, you can't have those spontaneous conversations, you can't, um, jump in and leverage on the energy. You miss out on a lot of lessons and information. Oh, but yeah, Rob, you can Zoom in. I don't know if any of you do remote Zooms, but we have a board room We have maybe, what, 14 seats in this boardroom, and we have a big screen. We had hand-built essentially the screen and this Zoom software and this microphone in the middle, and you know, this conferencing system. And it is not the same experience if you Zoom in as if you're in the room, and you can't hear the whispers that people say to each other and the things that they say over the table. So maybe you do miss out on a lot if you're not in the office. Okay, so women have been warned working from home may ruin their careers, and women who work mostly from home risk seeing their careers stall now that workers are returning to the office. Um, and this, this is according to Bank of England economist Catherine Mann. I'd love to get on my podcast and have this discussion, so if anyone can hook me up, hook me up. Thanks for the stars there, by the way. Okay, businesswoman Justine Roberts, co-founder of the Mumsnet website, agreed that there was a risk Women's careers could suffer from not being in the office, but it was up to companies to be aware of this. Um, is it also not up to governments to help support us? If we've been forced to have people work from home because it was illegal to work in the office because of COVID and production and productivity is reduced from people working at home, isn't it also up to the government to come and help and support? Help the, help the female employees, but also help the employers. So, um, yeah, Justine Roberts, founder of Mumsnet, reckons, um, companies need to be aware of it. No, no, I, I think there needs to be support because I have to be honest and tell you, it was great that we could work from home through COVID as opposed to not work at all, and many of my staff really did step up. But productivity is better in the office, hands down, um, in my experience, in my company, because energy is a big thing. You know, you want to get something done, you just go and speak to someone. Let me know what you think. I mean, do you think that we're moving more towards this work-from-home environment? I think coders, IT contractors, systems, software, etc., etc. VA, editing— I think that can be great for working from home. And if you've got clear deliverables and metrics, i.e., by 5 PM this needs to be done, whether it gets done or it doesn't get done, and it's pretty clear, isn't it? And in that regard, it can be good. And actually, in the office, you can get a lot of distractions and people coming up to you and talking to you, and an open-plan office is noisy. So in certain roles, I think it can work, but in many roles— and if you're a manager and you're managing team and in HR and you want to progress your career, I think you've got to fucking get back to the office. I really do. That's my experience. All right, so let's not forget that the one best— one of the best things to come out of the pandemic is the ability to work flexibly, especially for mothers juggling childcare and school runs. So I think the government need to help us. Yes, companies can say, for example, we allow all of our mothers and fathers, but it's mostly mothers, to come into work after they've dropped their kids off from school and to pick their kids up and work around being fairly flexible. And I think that that's a good thing to do, things like that. But, you know, we probably need more support if in reality someone who's got to care for their children can do a 30-hour week not a 40 or a 45-hour week. And I think the government have got to take some responsibility for this. Let me know what you think in the comments, by the way. Okay, so according to a BBC survey, just over half of women said they thought working from home would help them progress at work as childcare and caring duties become less of a hindrance to working full-time. Except Catherine Mann, Bank of England economist, has said it could really damage a woman's career if she works from home. Why just women? Why not men as well? Um, okay. Danielle Harmer, chief people officer at insurance giant Aviva, said companies need to set out a framework to ensure that people working remotely are not an afterthought for company bosses. Otherwise, she said, career prospects and gender pay gap would suffer. Now this actually pisses me off, this bit. Let me say that again. Danielle Harmer, chief people officer at insurance giant Aviva said companies need to set out a framework to ensure that people working remotely are not an afterthought for company bosses. People working from home need to make sure that they deliver results. They need to be responsible for their own career. They are being employed by the employer. Twice here, the onus is put on the employer. What about on the government? What about support? What about education? What about the employee wanting to do a good job and deliver a good result. So, yeah. She goes on to say, Danielle Harmer, Chief People Officer of Aviva: I think if organisations leave it up to their employees, you could have a potential situation where those with caring responsibilities, who tend to be female, tend to work from home more often. By the way, men can do that too, and we have quite a lot of men that work from home as well as women. And we look back in 2 years and think, hang on a second, why has the gender pay gap widened? Why are female promotions slowing down a little bit? Well, like I said, I'm not sure this is just a gender debate, but let's make the assumption that, um, you know, more women than men have to work from home because they have, um, caring responsibilities. I do agree that, um, visibility could be less in the office if they're working from their home. Certain information that you need to pick up and quick chats that get things, um, done quickly can be missed when you're working from home. Definitely Zoom meetings are not the same as board meetings. So I do agree that these are challenges for men as well as women, and I think the government need to step in and help and support us in this, and it not just be always dumped on the employer. Yes, I'm biased. Yes, I employ hundreds of staff, contractors and, um, outsourcers and actual fully employed staff. So I'm, you know, I'm naturally gonna take that viewpoint. I did try and see it from my staff's point of view as well. Let me know what you think about this in the comments. Please hit the share button because I think that this discussion needs to be had. I've been wanting for ages to talk about the work from home dynamic, um, and if it's really good or not. On the one hand, it got us all through COVID. On the other hand, does it reduce productivity? Does it slow down communication? I can tell you when my staff aren't in the office, I find it so much harder to get stuff out of them and to get stuff moving quickly, and things slow down. Out of sight, out of mind. That is what I've experienced. Like it or not, that is what I've experienced. If you've got anything different and you've experienced something different, please put it in the comments. Okay, Vincent, uh, Keaveney, partner at the law firm DLA Piper and Lord Mayor of London, told the BBC's Today program that he thought it was important for younger members in the sector to be in the office in order to get the training they needed. They need the buzz around the office and the buzz around the city, which is fantastic. I don't think we should be micromanaging companies, but there is a very strong message that the city is open. The Mayor of London wants everyone back into the office. If I'm honest, I want as many people as possible back in the office. Vision meetings, you know, where we're going, how we're going to create energy and momentum and service and disruption and speed moving through 2022. How do you create that energy on Zoom and having to speak to everyone on the phone or on WhatsApp voice memos? It's so much harder. How do you maintain a culture when most people are working from home? Okay, separate ONS data showed a slightly higher percentage of male workers than female workers work from home for at least some of the time in late October. Previous ONS analysis showed women were more likely than men to say working from home allowed them more time to work with fewer distractions. So I do accept there are a lot of distractions at work— colleagues, water cooler discussions, noisy open-plan office, interruptions— but there's also that at home, let's be honest. And at least in the office, the manager can go, the boss can go, which they can't on Zoom or at home. And you know, I think a lot of people have got a bit soft. Oh, don't micromanage me, I don't want to be micromanaged. Do your job, and if you're doing your job, I'll leave you to it. And if you're not, I'm gonna look at you and go, do your job. And if you're at home, I can't look at you and go, do your job. And by the way, we've just had a fucking pandemic. We've just had probably the biggest disruption to work ever, and a lot of people are talking about we need to do less, we need to do less, we need to worry about people's mental health and blah blah blah. We need to get back to work, and we need to produce labor and products and services and fire up the economy and produce and create. And I've kind of thought for a while, maybe working from home is not so easy to do. All right, okay. But men said working from home helped them come up with new ideas, while women found it a hindrance. So let me summarize what's going on here in this announcement. Let me know what you think in the comments. And please share this because this is definitely a discussion we need to have as employees and employers, as entrepreneurs and as workers, because we're in disruptive times now when it comes to work and getting back to productivity and efficiency and firing up the economy and making companies profitable again and getting you earning your good wages or good profits. And a lot of people are talking about everything but doing work. Get back to work and do work. All right, so women have been warned that working from home may ruin their careers. Women who mostly work from home risk seeing their careers stall. Now workers are returning to the office in large numbers, according to the Bank of England economist Catherine Mann. If any of you can connect me with Catherine Mann, I would love to speak to her and have a discussion on this. I think it's a fascinating topic that needs to be discussed more. Please hit the share button, um, and let's get a discussion going in the comments. She said office interaction was vital to advancing companies. I'd be inclined to agree. But many women were still tied to homeworking, as are many men. Ms. Mann said it was a particular issue for mothers facing school disruptions and difficulty accessing childcare. I definitely agree with that, and we need education and support from the government on that. Everyone just defaults to going, oh, it's the employer's responsibility, the employer do this, give them this time, give them this support, give them this pay. But the government needs to step up and help here as well, I believe anyway. Earlier this year, Rishi Sunak warned about young people's careers and the online communication was unable to replicate the spontaneous office conversations that are important for recognition and advancement in many workplaces. So actually advancing a career or being a manager or having managerial responsibility, they are saying is harder working from home than in the office. Someone has said, surely the hybrid approach works best but both parties. We're actually in this position now, Mike. So we've got our SEO, some of our digital team, some of our media team, some of our marketing team. We've got, you know, some of our team working from home. We've got some of them on rotation, so they do shifts at home, shifts in the office. And it's— I guess it's kind of like a trial for us, not something we've done before. I can tell you this though, Mike, for a fact, as an owner of a company, one office I have has 75 staff in it. And when I come in and 40 of them at home and there's no energy in the office and you can't speak to the person you want to speak to because they're not there and they don't get the connections and the discussions and the ideas, that is detrimental for the, the speed of productivity for sure. Okay, so let me know what you think in the comments. Um, businesswoman Justine Roberts, co-founder of the Mumsnet website, agreed that there was a risk women's careers could suffer from not being in the office, but it was up to companies to be aware of this. I think it's also up to the government, and it's also up to you as an employer and a manager of your own career to do what you can to be productive and effective. It's interesting that none of this talk is about doing a good job so that you can create economy, so that you can get a pay rise doing a good job, so that you can support your employer that supported you through COVID. Employers always get the fucking bad rap. Jeez. The flip side, she told BBC, was that the flexibility of homeworking was a huge benefit to women and mothers in particular. Let's not forget that one of the best things to come out of the pandemic crisis is the ability to work flexibly, especially for mothers juggling childcare and school runs. We've already factored that in in our workplace. People can come into work after they've dropped children off, and it's not just women, by the way, it's also men. Anyway, that's it. Look, there's loads of stuff here, but I've already covered it, so go back and watch the replay and let me know what you think. I'm going to get in the comments and discuss this with you. I want to learn from you as well. Are you a boss? Do you employ people? What's your experience of work from home or work in the office or hybrid? Are you an employee? Do you work better at home or in the office? Honestly, do you think some people take the piss of the system from both sides? Let me know what you're thinking, what your experience is. and I'll come in and discuss this with you. I think this is a vital topic, um, as start-up and scale-up entrepreneurs, as employees, as people wanting to get ahead and make a bit of money and do some good work. I'll see you in the comments. Hit the share button, and remember, if you don't risk anything, you risk everything.