048: Why You Need Medicinal Mushrooms In Your Life: Interview with Four Sigmatic Founder Tero

Namaste, it's Sahara Rose. And welcome back to the Highest Self podcast, a place where we discuss what makes you your soul's highest evolvement. I'm so excited to share this week's episode with you because I am utterly obsessed with the company. If you haven't heard about it, you haven't been on Instagram. You've been living under a rock. For Sigmatic, they have taken medicinal, healing, ancient mushrooms and modernized them so we can all benefit from them on a daily basis. And best of all, four Sigmatic is the first ever Highest Self podcast sponsor. They love what we're doing here. They also have the same mission, to really marry together ancient Eastern wisdom with modern lifestyle, contemporary science, and all the things that we are doing. So I'm really excited about this partnership and to share Tarot the Founder's wisdom with you on this episode. So for Sigmatic, as I mentioned, functional mushroom coffees, hot cacao elixirs. My personal favorite is the Reishi. Reishi is really good for chilling out, relaxing. I've been trying to heal myself from adrenal fatigues, overactive adrenals that occur from working too much, staying up late at night, all the things that I've been doing this past year. So Reishi has been really, really helpful in my healing process. In fact, while I was traveling in India this past month, I brought a bunch of the Reiki Reishi packets with me from four Sigmatic. And every single day, no matter where I was, I had one. It made it so easy. Even on the plane, I just asked for hot water. I put the Reishi in there and it's mixed in with peppermint and licorice and different flavors, even a little bit of organic stevia. So it's sweet so you don't need anything else. I also like to, when I'm home, add a little bit of flax milk or something with it. You can add some coconut oil or ghee or whatever you want. They are all so good. They have tons of recipes on their website, but really they. They make it easy to benefit from these mushrooms. Years ago, I bought a bag of Reishi that just sat in the back of my shelf and never got used. And what Taro said. I was also fortunate enough to go to one of his workshops before this interview and he said that he realized that if mushrooms sit in the back of your shelf, any product sits on the back of your shelf, it's not doing good. So they put them in these individual packets that you can throw one in your bag wherever you are. If there's only a Starbucks around or some coffee shop, you can just ask for hot water. Put them in. My boyfriend is obsessed with their coffee one. So their coffee one has. They have two types. One is with lion's mane and chaga. The other one is with cordyceps and chaga. They both are energizing naturally, but they allow you to hold on to the energy of coffee for longer. Because a lot of times when you drink coffee, your energy levels go up and then they go back down. So with the mushrooms, they really work synergistically with the coffee. So they have that version. They have so many different kinds. They have an amazing hot cacao which has reishi in it. So it's really good for like, at the end of the day when you're winding down, instead of, you know, wanting to eat a bunch of chocolate or getting a glass of wine or a beer or whatever it is that you drink, you can just have this. And it's literally working on a cellular level to relax your body. He shares in this episode how much scientific research there is about mushrooms. I really think it is kind of a. An area that we haven't really dived as deep into as we should. And a lot of it which we discussed in this episode is because the stigma of, you know, people think, oh, mushrooms are drugs, mushrooms are this, mushrooms are that. Whereas four Sigmatic is all about using them for healing purposes. They work with anti cancer research institutes, they work with so many incredible organizations to really put the healing power of mushrooms at the forefront. So I'm so excited to share this episode with you guys. And best of all, Four Sigmatic is offering a 15% off discount for all high self podcast listeners. So all you have to do is go on their website. 4sigmatic f o u R S I G M a t I c.com forward/sahara s a h a r a again 4sigmatic.com sahara and you will get your 15% off discount on any, any of their products. I definitely recommend the reishi. Get the coffee one. If you drink coffee, try Lion's mane. If you exercise a lot, it actually brings up the oxygen levels in your lung will make you be able to exercise for longer. There's so much to it. They have a mushroom academy that's totally free on their website so you can like geek out and learn about all the mushrooms. After I recorded this episode, I spent like five hours on there and there's just so much to learn and I'm really excited for this incredible partnership. I Love what they're doing, they love what we are doing, and please support them. Check it out and enjoy this episode. Namaste and welcome to the Highest Self podcast. I'm so happy to have you here.

Thanks for having me.

Yes. And I was honored enough to meet you at your event at Free People with the Chalkboard magazine. And your assistant Brittany sent me a bunch of four Sigmatics products, and I have been drinking them every day since and recommending them to everyone. So thank you so much for creating this incredible product.

Yay. And thanks for spreading the mushroom mission to other people.

Oh, of course. And I just learned so much about mushrooms and really like seeing mushrooms not just as a food, but really like a system of life. So I have so much I want to ask you about, and the first question that I'd like to get started with is what makes you your Highest self?

Well, I think at the core of it, it's me being able to live my life in my way, not someone else's life in my way or my life in other people's way. But it's when I live my life in my way and, you know, remove myself from external expectations and also expectations of how you live and what you achieve. But that's when I'm at my higher self, when I'm living my own life in my own way.

I love that. And you are, I think you said, seventh generation mushroom cultivator.

13 generation farmer and forgers.

Oh, my God, that's so crazy. So for you, starting this company, was that something like your family was really, like, proud of, like, go for it, or was it sort of breaking out of the norm?

Both, I guess. The fact that I work with nutrition, agriculture is very supported and obviously with health. I guess, like, my idea of moving to the US or living in Asia was. Was. It was. That was a little bit the harder pill to swallow. But yes, it was. It was partly very much supported. And I think in. In the last couple years, when people, my parents and my family has understood better and the work we do, then it's. They're very, very supportive right now.

That's so great. And has four Sigmatics gone back to Finland? You're from Finland, correct?

Yeah, we actually have employees there as well. And we have a subsidiary, so we're an American company, but we have offices in la, New York and Helsinki, Finland. So we have team there and definitely go back and we try to have our summer team meetings in Finland because it's much more fun to have a summer team meeting in Finland and winter team meeting in California than vice versa for sure.

And can you tell us a little bit about how you came up with the idea to create this product, package it in this way and really make it accessible for the average person?

Yeah. So four Sigmatic is focused on basically the most studied foods in the world and some of them are mushrooms. So we're not just focused on mushrooms, but mushrooms and other superfoods. So things that actually have scientific meaning and we try to help people eat healthier by making it easy for people incorporate these both scientifically studied and usually also time worn whole foods into their diet. And why mushrooms is basically it's not that mushrooms are better than other food groups or kingdoms, but they're just very underrepresented and people don't have an understanding of their healing power and potential. You know, after all we're almost half the same DNA as mushrooms. So there's a lot of mushroom medicine out there that is very bioavailable for us. And, and there's a lot of essential nutrients, vitamins and minerals that they contain that we can benefit from and very easy way. But what is clear was that it was, you know, not everybody likes the flavor of mushrooms or a lot of other superfoods be these adaptogens for example, they taste kind of bad. So they've been sold in capsules and pills for a long time. And I just felt that like in order to make more people use them, you have to figure out easier ways for people to consume them because like we've all been there and January we buy, we sign up for a gym or buy all these fancy supplements out of Instagram or whatever of them at B and, and don't end up using them. So it's, you know, kind of like in Ayurveda as well. It's about the habits and rituals and compliance is everything. Like the fact that you know everything about yoga doesn't help you unless you do your practice. So it's like it's important to have your practice in both health and nutrition and wellness. So. So our most popular product is mushroom coffee. And that's for example way how we've been able to get more people to consume these functional mushrooms and superfoods that otherwise are very bitter is by combining them into the most popular bitter thing on the planet, which is coffee. And people already have a ritual on having a coffee every day, so you don't have to usually remind them. So by making a healthier coffee that doesn't give you the jitters. That way everybody can, you know, they remember to take their daily mushrooms all day, every day by making it taste better and make it easier to use. But at the core of it, we just want to help people eat healthier. And how we achieve that is by, you know, make it an easy, fun and delicious for people to add these extremely well studied mushrooms and superfoods to their diet.

I love that. And it's just such a genius idea because as you said, coffee is such a morning ritual for so many people. And why not just boost it up and add in something that's so good for you that you normally would never be having.

Yeah, totally. And also just want to note that is that, you know, we do like a mushroom hot chocolate. So cacao or chocolate is another bitter that people enjoy that you can hide things to you. And originally we started making these mushroom teas. But obviously coffee is such a daily ritual that it makes more and more people have the chance to try it. People have also had struggle with coffee, with the jitters and the heartburn that they get. So a lot of people are excited to know that there's a possibly a better for you option out there that they can try, which still tastes like caffeine, it tastes like coffee and you get the same kick, but but with a little bit healthier benefits.

And actually my favorite products of yours are the ones that are not even coffee. Like I think it's the lion's mane one and the reishi one. And you guys just have so many different flavors. Like I think was like peppermint and rose. And can you talk about the different types of products you guys have?

Yeah, we, I mean, I love so many different types of mushrooms, but at the end of the day, people, a lot of people, when they hear about mushrooms, they think of like either psychedelics or your portobello mushroom. And and so, you know, we're just trying to educate few first. So we focus on predominantly on top four mushrooms that have the highest amount of nutritional benefits, but they're also the most differentiated. And they're called Rishi, chaga, cordyceps and lion's maneuver. And we try to get people to consume these four mushrooms in different ways. And like you said, we offer not only coffee and cacao and whatever chocolates, but we also make these elixirs which are basically caffeine free mushroom drinks. And a lot of people enjoy them. And in those cases we just try to add things like mint or rosehip into them to kind of like balance otherwise the challenging flavors for people.

Yeah, and they're so good and you know, so many times when you wake up in the morning you want something sweet, so you get like coconut water or kombucha or something. And this, it had like a little bit of stevia in it, so it like hits that sweet spot. But also there's no caffeine in it. So it's perfect for someone with like adrenal fatigue or something like that.

And also no sugar. So you know about probably like a quarter of our products have stevia and the three quarters don't. But for the people who want that sweetness, stevia obviously is a little bit healthier choice considering that doesn't impact your blood sugar and doesn't have sugar in it.

Totally. So a lot of people these days are dealing with stress and anxiety. What mushrooms would you recommend for that?

The queen of all mushrooms, which is Reishi. R E I S H I and that's a Japanese name. That's probably by the way, a very common theme with these mushrooms is that they're named in Japan. But yes, reishi mushroom is a very grounding, earthing mushroom that you can take in the afternoon or evening when stress tries to take over you or if you need a good night's sleep.

Okay, perfect. And then what are the more like stimulating mushrooms you should have like before a workout.

So the actually the most popular functional mushroom in the US is Cordyceps, which is a little bit of a tongue twister, but C O R D Y ceps which a lot of people who take it don't even know it's a mushroom. But it's one of the most prestigious pre workout boosters and it's a strong adaptogen that improves VO2 max. So basically how much oxygen can you take into your lungs and really gives you that uplift without caffeine or sugar. So it's caffeine free and sugar free, basically a pre workout booster that you can take on a daily basis safely. So cordyceps is probably, if you want to work out, if you want that like fire, you know, color red uplift, then it's cordyceps. And if you want that grounding, earthing, calming energy, then probably Reishi.

So cordyceps would bring up your pitta basically in Ayurveda and Reishi would bring up your kapha, which is like the earth energy.

Correct. And then obviously, I mean we can go into a more specific clarification of each. But yes, if they all both are adaptogens, so they're tonics. Or I guess in India you would call Rasayana same way as Tulsi or ashwagandha. So technically you could have ashwagandha, tulsi in the morning or in the evening. Both are very well studied for stress reduction. But nevertheless, it doesn't say that even though ashwagandha and tulsi are great for stress reduction, it doesn't mean you couldn't have them in the morning. So cordyceps and reishi are the same way. That being said, if you want to kind of optimize their benefits, the other one is a more uplifting and the other one is more grounding.

Totally. A friend of mine, she said that she had taken the cordyceps before her run that she does around Central park. And normally, you know, a few laps in, she gets tired and she stops and she's like, I literally, my body was not getting tired. She just had to stop because she just ran out of time and it was like so crazy for her. So I mean, I wonder for like merit, are there any studies about like how it affects your body?

Yeah, I mean there's hundreds of studies of all these mushrooms, actually. Maybe I just reframe is. I mentioned that we share about half of our DNA with mushrooms, but about 40% of all pharmaceuticals are derived from fungi. And out of the 20 best selling drugs in the world, 10 are estimated to have fungi in them. So anything from penicillin to a lot of immunosuppressants. And so there's plenty of research. For example, the VO2 Max, there's a study that showed that there's an up to 50% increase in VO2 max on untrained individuals if they have cordyceps. So almost like, I mean on layman terms you could say you have more 15% more oxygen in your lungs, which is pretty incredible.

50%.

1 5, not 50.

Oh, I was like, what?

But this is on untrained individuals, on a trained individual, like a friend of mine is an Olympic athlete. And if you get just a 2% increase, that's already incredible for a well oiled machine.

Oh, for sure. And I mean people travel to, you know, higher altitudes just so they can have their bodies get used to pumping more oxygen. So just if taking some mushrooms can help with that, that's incredible.

And this is actually how it was discovered. Cordyceps was discovered by the Sherpas in the Himalayas. And basically they were observing these yaks that are these large domesticated mammals that help carry things up the hill and in the high altitude when the animals also get tired, same way as humans, which we animals, the yaks Were really tired after a long day of hiking and carrying stuff. And then they started grazing on this cordyceps mushroom. And this had suddenly a burst of energy. And the Sherpas was like, what's going on? And then they tried it on themselves and it worked as well. That's why it became such a prestige and premium herb. Even though it's a mushroom about 2,000 years ago.

Oh, wow, that's so fascinating. So has it been consumed in many different parts of the world or is it more in Japan?

Well, cordyceps specifically is more. It's an oriental gem almost. So that history has been pretty much a secret in Asia for most of the 2,000 years, until in 1993, when a group of Chinese runners, long distance runners, broke the world records on, for example, 10k running, breaking the world record and running under 30 minutes, 10 kilometer, 10,000 meter run. And everybody thought it was doping because it was like they came out of nowhere and they were so much faster than anybody else ever. And they got tested and they tested clean. And then people were like, what's going on? And their coach said, we've been just drinking a lot of Cordyceps. So after 1993, it started becoming very popular in the Western world as well. Unlike the other mushrooms, like even reishi or lion's mane or the other mushrooms that I didn't yet mention, like shiitake maitake, those grow widely in North America. And there's a longer history with the other top functional mushrooms in the Western world. And pretty much all in traditional cultures been using these mushrooms in some capacity. But cordyceps specifically has been, until 1993, pretty much quite a. It's kind of been like an Asian secret.

Wow, that's so fascinating. Yeah. Because I had never heard about it until very recently. I really think it's because of your company that we're even talking about it right now. I don't know any really other place to buy them. So thank you for bringing it out here.

Well, thank you. Thanks for enjoying it.

Yes. So a question that I get from people all the time, which I don't really know the answer to, is people go on a candida diet and their doctors tell them not to eat mushrooms. But is the fungus in our body the same as eating mushrooms? Can you not have them if you have Candida?

So that's a great question, and that's a common question. So first of all, you have to understand that mushrooms or fungi are a kingdom, same way as plants are a kingdom or animals are a kingdom. It's not like a chihuahua and a blue whale. They're not the same. Even though they're both animals and they're both even mammals. So they're human in the same group of animals. And even though if you're a proponent of a plant based diet, you must acknowledge that there's thousands of plants that can kill you. So now you shouldn't eat all plants. Not all plants are good for you. Some of them are lethal. So fungi is no different. And then the fact that if there's estimated to be 1.5 million types of different fungi, so six times more different types of mushrooms than there are different types of plants in the world, it's pretty ignorant to say is that, hey, you can't eat butter mushrooms means you can't eat any fungi. And by the way, fungi is when we breathe mushroom, when we're breathing air, we're breathing in mushroom spores. If we need to produce beer, wine, cheese, bread, whatever, those require mushrooms. Even Kombucha requires mushrooms. And Candida is a fungal disease and it's one of those bad kind of mushrooms. And because of this DNA similarity that I mentioned, humans are very prone to fungal diseases. Beyond Candida, the other one is a mold in a building. We're very sensitive to them, but we can also use mushrooms to protect ourselves. So the top mushrooms like turkey tail or reishi or shiitake maitake, they're actually antifungal. So the top mushrooms are actually good against Akita. Not only they're safe for someone who has Candida, Reishi can help remove Candida potentially. So it's almost like fight fire with fire. So these mushrooms themselves have to compete with other mushrooms in nature. And because of that reason, they've built these mechanisms and compounds that are actually very antifungal. So I would put three sheen top three antifungal things out there in the world together, together with things like Paldiarco and other. A few others.

So fascinating because yeah, the first thing the doctors hand you is the foods not to eat and mushrooms are on there. And I remember the first time I heard about it, I didn't eat them for so long. But I was just like reading, you know, there's a, there's opposing views on both sides. But even like nutritional yeast was another thing they said not to eat. But nutritional yeast is very different from the yeast in our systems.

Yes. And just ignorance and people's lack of understanding of both biology and nutrition is lumping in a whole kingdom into one.

So yeah, And I think that's happened A lot with mushrooms, because obviously it has the potential to be poisonous or hallucinogen. So people are, like, a little bit afraid. I remember my grandmother, when she would come to my house in Boston growing up, she would go in the backyard and find, like, mushrooms on trees and, like, pick them and eat them. And we thought she was crazy because we were like, you're not supposed to eat that. But I guess, you know, she. She just knew which ones she could eat, which ones she couldn't. And it's something that we don't really learn as children here.

Yeah, I mean, definitely. I mean, at the end of the day, originally, all food comes from nature. All food was wild food, unless before we started domesticating things. And. And we've just lost that connection with Mother Nature and we've forgotten a lot of stuff. And even if you go to a grocery store, you can choose things that are more wild than others, like asparagus or sea vegetables or things like that that can be more original, heirloom or wild or whatever you want to call them, versus using things that are very, very domesticated, like using plants that can't even reproduce themselves in nature. A lot of the foods we love to eat are things that. That don't survive in nature without our interference.

So what are some examples of those type of foods?

Well, I'll talk about fruits. And what if something doesn't have a seed? Think of fruits that don't have seeds. How is it gonna naturally be reproducing?

Like a seedless watermelon or something, for.

Example, and banana or. I mean, even if we can go and we look at the difference between a cultivated carrot and a wild carrot, those are two totally different things. Or if we look at the difference between. The classic example is actually from the animal kingdom, which is, you know, comparing a Chihuahua and a wolf. The other one is Canis lupus, and the other is Canis lupus familiaris. And they're still very similar. So that's the same way as you can look at a lot of foods, is that some of them can survive in wild, some of them can't, and some of them require pesticides, fungicides, fertilizers, and other interference to be grown. So the same way as with mushrooms is if you know, you know, obviously, if you don't know right now, you shouldn't hold yourself accountable that, oh, I have to learn everything now. Like, the same way as you learn languages over a long time, you don't become an expert in anything in a day or a week or month. Or even a year. So just learning one is a great starting point or two. And you don't need to learn mushroom number 52 or 22 or 11. If you just learn top two mushrooms, that would be a great start.

So if people are buying mushrooms to cook for themselves at home, what kind of mushrooms do you recommend?

From out of the commonly available ones, I would say shiitake is. It's usually like set to be the second most cultivated mushroom in the world after the butter mushroom. And it's probably the second or third most studied mushroom in the world after reishi and maybe chaga or whatever. But shiitake is very well studied for its health benefits, its antiviral, antibacterial benefits and great for like I would say beauty, liver support as well. And yeah, I mean I think that's a safe bet. The other ones that you can find pretty commonly is oyster mushroom, maitake and enoki. And those are, you know, safe and functional mushrooms that you can enjoy just when you prepare them. Just don't eat them raw. Prepare them in heat and lipids. So apply heat in a soup or saute them and use fats with them and that's how you can unlock their health benefits.

So is eating raw mushrooms bad for you or is it just doesn't have as many nutritional content?

Well, it depends on the mushroom. If we talk about edible inedible mushrooms, but generally speaking I could say is that they have no benefits for you. In some cases they're actually bad for you to consume them raw.

Okay. Because a lot of times you're at a salad bar and there's raw mushrooms.

Definitely don't have those.

Okay.

Skip them big time.

And what about just like the, like the baby bellow or cremini mushrooms? Like they're the most affordable ones. Do they really have health benefits or do you suggest just spending the extra money on the shiitake?

Very limited. And if you by the way have Candida, then you can't really eat them. So I would say avoid them. Do they have health benefit to them? Yeah, sure. They have, you know, certain fibers and certain minerals that they contain. So they're not all that bad. But you know, if, if you want maybe give a blanket statement, are they good or bad? I would just say rather have a shiitake.

Okay. Yeah. I think a lot of people, when they get mushrooms, they just pick whatever's the cheapest and it's those ones that are like pre sliced. So it's good to know that those aren't really recommended.

Well the same way as if you go and buy anything from, from dairy products to vegetables to anything for your health. I don't think choosing the cheapest option often offers you the best value.

So I want to talk a little bit about Ayurveda and mushrooms. Is it something that we spoke about earlier and has been bogging my mind since we talked about it. So in Ayurveda mushrooms are considered Tamasic and the word tamas means makes you more dull. And the reason they believe that is because they think it's very earthy and very grounding and that if you consume it then you feel too earthy and groundy and you're not sharp. But as you're mentioning, there are so many mushrooms that aren't like that. So I'd love to know and we can talk about like what, what do you know about how mushrooms may have been perceived this way in Ayurveda and India? And any studies or research you've done about this?

Yeah, sure. So like you said, they're not like highly promoted in Ayurveda and that's always puzzled me a little bit. I'm like, why? Considering that 25% of Earth's biomass is made out of fungi and by the way, in India, like all these amazing plants, these Indian herbs require mushrooms to collect water. So you could even argue that without mushrooms a lot of the amazing Indian healing herbs and foods wouldn't exist. So that was always boggling for me and kind of right now I don't really know. Like, I don't truly know like one reason why it is and probably the truth is that there's multiple reasons that come together. One of them is obviously that that the kind of Anglo Saxon pretty influence. So British people has been, have been some of the most anti mushroom people in the world. Whereas like Slavic, Asian, you know, have been much more mushroom friendly. And one of the reasons why that might be, again we don't fully know is that UK England is very damp, so there's a lot of moisture and they expected that there might have been some sort of a mold in buildings that killed a lot of people and that's why people got scared of it. Second one relates to the witch hunt. So the mushroom knowledge was originally with women. Women were the, you know, the gatherers and the men were the hunters and they would have knowledge about not only mushrooms but also herbs and mushrooms were used in various healing ceremonies that then got demonized at one point and that was considered bad. So the British influence and its impact on India might have been one Factor second is, like, we know Hindi is. It's just like India is a blending spot of so many cultures and so many different things. There's no, like, one India, really. And even forcing this one language on the whole country is very, you know, you could. Very odd. So the same way as if we think of, you know, going from the foothills of the Himalayan to Kerala and even, like, where is Ayurveda right now centered? And, you know, that lot better. But when I was there and visiting different places, I would see that, for example, in Kerala in the south, there was a much bigger hotspot of Ayurveda than what I found up north. So, like, how sometimes a certain small, maybe minority or a powerful group of people can influence the impact of the whole country or if not the whole world is another reason why it might be the case that in certain areas, it was not as, you know, recommended. And because of that reason, it impacted the whole culture. And later, people didn't even question why something is what it is.

Totally. Yeah. So Ayurveda actually comes from north India, the very north of India. But when the British came, it had to go underground because the British said this is like a barbaric health system. And it. The safe haven for it became Kerala in South India. So now Kerala is like the hot spot for Ayurveda, but it's not really where it originated from. So I think that when it went underground, probably the use of mushrooms became prohibited, because also, there's a lot of psychedelic mushrooms in India. It's like a great breeding ground for it. And the British probably did not want people using that because it could open their minds and make them realize how screwed up everything is.

So.

So I think that that fear of the psychedelic mushrooms had to do with it. India probably is not even the best place to grow mushrooms. It's so hot and, like, humid that probably a lot of them were poisonous. And they just didn't want people, like, going in their backyards and picking them up and, like, dying. So I think that had to do a lot with it. And the fact that, you know, they didn't. They couldn't really preserve it because people were just, like, cooking things and eating them immediately. So as you mentioned, eating them raw can be dangerous. So I think all of these things probably made it become prohibited in Ayurveda. But I really, I. You know, we don't know what they were saying 5,000 years ago, but I don't think that they would have, you know, for. Because in traditional Indian culture, they use medicinal Mushrooms ceremonially. Like, they see really the value of them. So I really do think it's like, the British influence.

Yeah. And let's just note that there's a lot of documented evidence that people in the Himalayas were using these mushrooms. So that definitely is part of. At least partly part of the Indian heritage. And then also the note that a lot of these top mushrooms grow in lush forests, so requires a lot of trees and especially old forests. So whenever people. Population grew and there was more and more land was converted into aquaculture, a lot of trees were cut. And India obviously has. There's a lot of deforestation that has happened over the years. So for that reason as well, there might be less access to some of these mushrooms in the wild.

Totally. Yeah. In my cookbook, I'm putting mushrooms, and it's like a modernized Ayurveda cookbook. And I'm like, the things that old school Ayurveda says and the things that I think make sense. And so many people in India are, like, afraid of mushrooms. Like, they literally are scared. Onions, garlic, and mushrooms are the three things that it's like, because of religion, because of, you know, it's believed to bring down your consciousness or whatnot. So it's like, I think we're ready to let go of that belief because if that were true, then, like, everyone else in the world should have, like, no consciousness because they eat mushrooms. And it just doesn't really make sense.

Yeah. And again, just understanding that some mushrooms are good, some mushrooms are bad, and just being in that mindset will give you a much better, healthier relationship with this kingdom.

Totally. And another question that a lot of people had, were mushrooms for hormonal balance? What do you recommend for that?

Well, hormones is a complicated thing because, you know, there are these messengers in body, and it's more of a symphony than a single instrument. So it's not like. And sometimes I also joke is that people think that if their testosterone is high or low, or if their estrogen is high or low, thyroid or adrenals or whatever, they think that's the issue. But often that's a reaction to something else in the body. So if you have issues with your thyroid, it's actually to balance other instabilities in the body. The whole system is just reacting. That being said, a lot of the hormones are produced in our glands, and we have evidence from these certain adaptogens. Some mushrooms, some others, like we mentioned ashwagandha and their ability to affect the HbA axis, the hypothalamus, and our Adrenals and, and all that stuff. So for kind of a healthy body, the regulation of glands is really important. And there's been a lot of studies and increasingly excitement around how adaptogens can help balance your hormones, basically. And, and some of these top adaptogens are mushrooms like reishi and cordyceps. So that's probably it. Again, we're entering an area where we have to know which hormone and which situation which need before saying is that. And not all mushrooms are adaptogens. So it's also good to understand that not all of them might help you.

Okay, so, so basically taking the cordyceps or reishi or is chaga also an adaptogen?

Yeah, so adaptogen is. Is. Even though a lot of these are ancient foods, it's a fairly new term. We know very surely that there's at least 10 strong adaptogens and reishi and cordyceps, two of them. Then there's like another probably adaptogens, another 10ish. And in that probably category, there's shiitake, maitake and chaga. But if we think of what we know for sure that our adaptogens like schisandra, rhodiola, eulero, ginseng, tulsi, ashwagandha, rishi, cordyceps, and then we start getting into them more like probably categories. And. But yeah, so there's at least there's two to five mushrooms that I would say are most likely adaptogens.

Love that. And do you have, do you recommend people take these for like 30 days, give their body a break and come back to it? Or is it something people can continually use daily?

No, they can and they should use them daily. So what I just say is think of these mushrooms that offer these compounds called polysaccharides that are good for your gut health and your immune system. And these polysaccharides that all of these mushrooms contain. All these top mushrooms contain, I think of like chlorophyll. Like chlorophyll, the color green is good in some capacity every day. You can saute spinach, or you can have a green smoothie, or you can have a juice, depending on your body type and your situation and your digestive tract. But you probably want to have greens, dark, leafy greens in your body on a daily basis. You don't always have to have spinach or kale. You can have arugula, dandelion. You can have even freshwater algae like chlorella and spirulina. So there's different ways how you can get chlorophyll into your body. But that color green is very powerful, same way as a lot of other color pigments that we can get in foods. So mushrooms are the same. So these polysaccharides are kind of like chlorophyll. You want to have them in your body every day, but doesn't mean you have to have reishi every day. You can, and it's safe, but maybe you want to have this mushroom this day and that mushroom that day and mix them up a little bit. But you should definitely have some of these top functional mushrooms on a daily basis and often, also multiple times during the day.

Okay, got it. And are there any types of people who should not have a specific mushroom? Any health issues that could prohibit it?

Yeah, I mean, of course, like any plants as well, like, certain foods are not recommended. And obviously, you know that through Ayurveda is like, certain body types are most sensitive to other things. Even though the Rasayanas should be more or less suitable for everyone, still, you could say that maybe certain person might not want to have tulsi, even though they're probably among the safest things. So same with mushrooms. And just to give you, like, a notable exception, like chaga is some. A lot of the antibiotics are derived from fungi, and using a synthetic antibiotic or anticodulant, you know, blood thinners and stuff. And then you have this natural product that kind of does the same in a whole food form. That might be an issue. So definitely talk to your doctor if you're on antibiotics and you're using these functional mushrooms.

Okay, got it. So, yeah, it seems like generally that they're safe, though, and that a lot of us can. Can benefit from them.

Yes.

And the last question that I'm just curious about is starting a mushroom company. Do you ever get people, like, afraid of the whole psychedelic side? And do you think that it will ever be part of your mission to talk about that as well?

Yeah, I don't know. Not that often. Probably only every day, about 17 times. So, yeah, I mean, definitely. I've heard probably the every possible mushroom joke right out there. And people keep texting me photos of mushrooms with, like, a really bad lighting on top of a mushroom, like, as if I can recognize based on a. On a baked image. And then, you know, they're like, hey, you're a fun guy and type of jokes. So. And the psychedelics is, like, oddly magical. So definitely, like, part of my life for a while has been, you know, having those reactions. So. Yeah, so right now I think mushrooms can offer a lot of promise to a lot of common issues in life. Anything from people who have a PTSD or depression using psilocybin mushrooms. With that, I think there's more research to be made there to understand if that's the case or not. Right now they're not legal and the government thinks they have no health benefits. But there's, you know, promising research from John Hopkins University and New York University that might, might show kind of something else. Also, mushrooms can offer a lot of environmental benefits from, you know, eating plastic and oil and stuff like that. But I think to open our consciousness, I think first and foremost most people, probably we included as well initially, we think of ourselves. So it's like basically the muscles hierarchy here is that you want to first take care of your own needs before you start to look at a, you know, a higher global consciousness. And that's unfortunate, but true. So in this case, my passion to help the global consciousness and get more people on shroom, so to say, is first to focus on their kind of things like skin and sleep and energy and brain function. So. So I'm more fascinated by the functional, you know, health benefits of mushrooms at this moment. Obviously when I lecture, I try to talk about the fungal kingdom as a whole. And then you have to go into both the environmental and the psychedelic factors of mushrooms because people are curious. But nevertheless, my mission is around these functional mushrooms and whole food mushrooms.

Right. And it's interconnected. When people are healing their bodies and their hormones and adrenals, they naturally want to go out there and make a greater impact on the world.

Well, that's at least my hope.

Yes, yes. And it's. And it's definitely happening. And I think that there is so much more research for sure to be done. But also has been done about just how much mushrooms can help with PTSD and trauma. And I really do hope that, you know, what's happening now with cannabis and how it's become so much more mainstream will eventually happen with mushrooms too.

Yep.

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for sharing with us all of your wisdom. We all enjoyed so much learning from you. Where can we connect with you and of course buy some four sigmatics.

Yeah, I'm not that active on social. I have a private Instagram account called iamtero T E R O. But easiest way to follow me and I work is through my company, four Sigmatic F O U R S I G M A T I C and you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, 4sigmatic.com yada yada yada and I have a book out called Healing Mushrooms. You can get wherever books are sold and that kind of walks through the top 10 mushrooms. And also we have a mushroom academy. If you go to4sigmatic.com you can go through a free e learning course anywhere you live to learn about the benefits of mushrooms for free.

That's so amazing. I'm gonna go on it right now and nerd out.

Well, yeah.

Thank you again for being part of the highest self podcast and we look forward to enjoying our shrooms every single day.

Thanks for having me on.

Thank you. How do you guys feel? I mean, personally, I know I listened to that whole episode while drinking the Reishi and I feel pretty amazing. So again, if you want to get your own batch of Four Sigmatic, all you have to do is go on4sigmatic.com forward/sahara. The link is also in the show notes and you will get your 15 off discount. So hope you loved it. Also, as a free free gift to everyone who reviews this podcast, I am offering my unreleased book Eat right for your mind body type infusing ancient ayurvedic wisdom with modern nutritional science. The first half of it free. All you have to do is leave a review for this podcast on the itunes store and send me a screenshot of the email at to saharaetfeelfresh.com send the screenshot of your review and I will send you over the the first half of my unreleased book. So shh, don't show anyone and I can't wait to share it with you. Thank you so much for listening and I'll see you guys on the next episode.

Sam.