611: How to build real intimacy, trust and depth with Kevin The Heart Guy

Women are the voice of God for men in a lot of ways, because you are the oracle. You are more divinely connected than a lot of men are. And so who are you speaking to? Are you speaking to the king you see in him, or are you speaking to the fool you see in him? Whichever one you speak to is going to show up. It's just really important to note, like, the power that you hold and the power you have in relationship. You are the number one most influential person in that person's life.

Just flow, surrender let go Just flow, surrender, let go I'm the one I've been waiting for Trust flow soon to let go Trust flow soon to let go Trust flow soon to let go I'm the one I've been waiting for welcome back to the Highest Self podcast. My name is Sahara Rose, and on this podcast, I love to talk about spirituality, matters of the heart, the divine, feminine. But make it modern, fun, grounded, and relatable so it can actually serve your needs. So the funny thing about a spiritual journey is I feel like we start because we want to manifest things in our life. We want more flow, joy, ease, abundance, you know, and it brings us on this journey of, you know, Abraham Hicks and positive affirmations and all of that. But then we realize that our greatest spiritual journey comes through our relationships, our romantic relationships, our relationships with our family members. Oh, God. Work in progress on that one. Friendships, colleagues, the list goes on. Life is relationships. At the end of the day, we really can't live in a vacuum. And I feel it's like periods of our life, we have to go inwards to really, like, reflect on our relationships, what's serving us, what's not? Am I having the relationships that I really want in my life? And then periods of actually being in relationship where triggers come up, you know, shadows come up, and, you know, I think what's hard sometimes is wondering, am I with the right person? Is this the right relationship for me? And something that I've felt in my own journey? And I know lots of especially spiritual women who listen to this podcast are, I want to be with a spiritual man who can meet me, who can meet me in my consciousness. But I find maybe you met this amazing man, but maybe he's not as spiritually deep as you. And I'm putting this in little asterisks here. So you're like, is this the right partner for me, or is there someone better out there for me who is into tantra and has done shadow work and has done plant medicine and asks me Deep, meaningful questions. And so whether you are single, wondering if this even exists, whether you are in relationship but maybe wanting more depth, or you're in a long term marriage and you're ready for a renaissance in your relationship, I really want this to be the episode that you can really just send to your partner, send to a friend who's in this, because I feel at the end of the day, that's what we all really want. More depth, more intimacy, and more trust in our relationships. And it feels like the hardest thing to get sometimes. So I want to bring on my dear friend. He's a relationship coach and expert. You might recognize him from Instagram, the Heart Guy. I was recently on his podcast and I've just been really diving into his work ever since. And he has such a nuanced way of speaking about relationships that's equal parts spiritual and conscious, but also really just grounded and pragmatic. And he is a straight man. So we're really excited to have that here on the podcast. And before we drop into this episode, be sure to hit subscribe wherever you're listening to this podcast. That is the best way to stay up to date on the latest episodes. We've got this in video format, so if you're just hearing my voice, be sure to also watch our fabulous outfits on video as well on Spotify, YouTube or the Apple Store. This is the best way to stay in the flow with future conversations and also allows the podcast to reach more people. So hit subscribe so I can keep vibing with you on all future episodes. Now let's get into this one. So without further ado, let's welcome Kevin here on the Highest Self podcast. What is it like to be a straight man?

It's great. I love it.

And you're a heart guy and straight. I'm just confused right now. How did that happen?

God blessed me, I guess.

Literally. Okay, so I'm curious. Let's just start with. I think a lot of us are looking for the spiritual man. Does this exist?

Yeah, we're all on Mars.

Where do we go? What flights, what hostels do I go to?

I mean, how I see it is it's not a game of hide and seek, it's a game of quantum physics. And so the more that we work on ourselves, the more that what's for us shows up. Even if you're with somebody now, it will start to show up in them the more you shift, especially because you're quantum physically entangled as a couple. Whether it's working out great now or not. That's always my.

So if you exist, they exist.

Yeah.

But do you think it's exactly what we're looking for? What do you think is the checklist?

It's what you need, not just what you're looking for. I think that that's the part that people don't truly understand, because we see it all as a checklist. We see it all as asking Santa for a list of what we want instead of what's a match for where we're at right now spiritually, and what's going to evolve us to the next level of where we get to go. And sometimes that means a lesson, sometimes that means a person that is a lifelong lesson. And that gets to look like the relationship of a forever partnership.

Do you think our partner is always a mirror to our consciousness? Or sometimes the lessons that they're going through, the problems they're going through, are maybe to show us where to let go of control, of trying to fix someone.

I'd say more the latter. I mean, it's both. And there's so many perspectives to see all this through. But I'll say, like, you know, if. If somebody keeps attracting emotionally unavailable people, they're like, what is it about me? Like, why am I attracting this? I would argue that you're not attracting to it, you're saying yes to it. Because there's a part of you that's wanting to still play out that dynamic at a chance of redemption for something that happened in the past so you can finally win and be enough. And until that part of you from the past gets that redemption of being seen, heard, understood somatically or whatever, it's gonna run the show subconsciously and be your picker.

So for people right now who maybe are in a relationship, but it's not as deep as they would like, what are some practices that they can do?

So love meeting, which is once a week, we dive into. It's essentially like a somatic check in first off. So we just drop in. We're present. Whether it's eye gazing, breath work, we do some sort of drop in somatically.

And how did this come up? Whose idea was it to have this? Because I feel like a lot of us women feel like I'm the one who wants to do these kind of things. But then I feel like I'm like the leader or I'm trying to control the relationship, you know?

Right. Well, I want to back. I'll dive into that in a second. But I want to back up to what you're saying of Like I want a more spiritually evolved man and men are, in my perspective, are spiritual in a different way than women are. And so you might be looking for him to be deeper on the tantric path or deeper connected to the cosmos or. And I'm like, that that's your gift as a woman. And so like I'll even say for my, my own relationship, like I wasn't as big into tantra or any of that stuff and that's a big non negotiable for her. But she is and helped guide me into that. You know what I mean? So it gets to be this collaborative thing and it doesn't necessarily need to look like what you think it needs to look like. I think the biggest thing to look for is are they a team player and are they growth oriented at the end of the day, then you're malleable and you can work together on to create the relationship you want to create versus find the person you want to find. Because finding the right person is just step number one. And that's what so many people are focused on. Then it's like, how do you maintain the relationship? How do you keep it? How do you continue to grow and evolve together during different seasons in life? All the things.

So I want to know more about this love meeting. Like, yeah, idea was this love meeting. How did, how was it brought up and what are the guidelines around it?

So I'm a relationship coach, so it was my idea for this part of it. But she did bring it up of like, let's do some type of ceremony or some, something on the regular. I was like, yeah. One of my mentors had this thing called a love meeting. I also on my podcast interview couples who've been together for decades and like things that they've done. So I pieced together some things. But ultimately it's just, it's like checking your bank account. If you don't check your bank account, see what you have every once in a while, it's kind of like you're just crossing your fingers, hoping things are great. The same is true with the pulse of the relationship. And so the love meeting is meant to clear the air on things so resentment doesn't build up, deepen the relationship over time and continue to feel like, you know, everybody's seen and heard and feeling met that the relationship is continuing to be fed. That's kind of the intention on it. So actually pull it up if you don't mind and just read what we do. And we've added some things to it and it continues to grow and evolve. So we first go through schedules. We just look at each other's week. We do this on the weekly. We go through each other's week. Is there anything that we are missing or do I need support from anything very, like, practical. This is what I got going on. This is what she's got going on. Is there anything that we need to support each other?

And how soon into your relationship did you start bringing this in?

Probably about a month in for us. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if it's something that's serious, like it's healthy to do. I mean, just think of it like being on the same page, really, because that's what this is. This is helping you get on the same page. Then we schedule a date night. What are we doing? Does it need to be moved? Can we make it special? You know, like right now it's the holidays, so we're like doing holiday themed things. Then we talk about sex. Is there anything that we want or need in anything type of exploration? How do you feel in that area? Just open space to talk about it that's not in the bedroom. Right. I think that's really. It's been really supportive for us. Then we added, because we both love novelty and adventure, we added a novelty and adventure section, which is on a scale of 1 to 10, how much variety, how much adventure are you feeling right now? And then on a scale 1 to 10, what do you want to feel this week? Because sometimes it's like I actually want to feel a five because I need some normalcy and some structure right now. Or it's like I need to feel a 10. I'm feeling like I need to go, go shake up. Right. And so then we. How do we get there together, whether as a couple or individually? And what could that look like? Like, last week it was variety of food because we were just kind of eating the same, doing the same routine. It's like we don't need to shake our, our schedules up because it was packed, but like, let's just try new things and cook new things together and, you know, be on the same page with that. Is there? And then this is the biggest part. Is there anything left unsaid? Are we holding on to anything, whether a complaint, an issue, even a compliment that we didn't say. And the importance here is to come from neutral because you're bettering the relationship. So this is where it's like a chance to be honest and say, you know, I didn't fully express that when you said this thing. It really hurt me. But I just sweeped another rug or I've been holding on to this thing that you said this when I brought up me doing this thing. And I just wanted to clear the air on that, right? Or even a compliment. Like, I really love that you're doubling down on the relationship stuff right now. And I can see that you're putting in the effort and it's really attractive, like just acknowledging that and saying that that's the space for that. And the important part on that one, and I'll say to everybody listening, is if you are the receiver on that one and it's, you know, your partner's the one expressing, just hold space. No, don't defend, don't jump in and say, but, but can you just hold space and let them speak it out? Because speaking it out is clearing it. That's all that needs to happen most of the time. And then we added feedback, which has been monumental for us. So this week my experience of you has been. This week my experience of you has been that you are really showing up for the relationship. This week my experience of you has been that you're being really lazy and falling off on your stuff. Like, I'm concerned about you, whatever it is. Because sometimes we don't see that in or have a space to talk about that type of stuff. And it comes up months down the road when it's this giant resentment and it turns into a blow up and then questioning the whole entire relationship. You're addressing the stuff when it's small with this, which is so important. And then the last bit, which is to acknowledge yourself for something this week personally hype yourself up and then acknowledge them for something that you see in them and try to be creative and find something new that you normally don't. And then we're, we're also playing around with adding a health section and something about money. But, you know, we're making it our own.

I love this. I mean, think of how many relational issues down the line that this is preventing. And I know that a lot of, you know, people might be like, I don't have time for that every single week. Or, you know, first of all, how long does this meeting typically take?

So it depends on the conversations, right? Like sometimes it's not even 30 minutes. Sometimes it could be an hour. I also give this to clients of mine and sometimes it is deeper, especially if there's a lot of resentments and a lot of things they're working through. The conversation could be like a, hey, like this is the first Time. I've been heard by you in months. So it comes out, it's like you're vomiting it all out, right. So it could take a little bit longer the first few times. And I think the important thing is to not rush it. Have it be towards the end of the day when you are feeling a little bit more grounded. It's not in the busyness of your day so you can fully be present. The enemy here is resentment. And you want to see your relationship. Like there's you, your partner in a window and you, every time you don't say something that actually irritates you, it's like a little dust on the window, a little skid mark there and a little mud over here. Anytime you just, oh, you know, I, I, I kind of get it. I, I see that they have good intentions, they wouldn't do anything. But deep down you're like, that wasn't okay with me or I don't feel safe in this or whatever it is. Then all of a sudden you look up a month down the road and you don't even see your partner. You just see all the mud and all the dirt, all the things that were left unsaid. And so this is cleaning the window, which is, there's a little thing here. I need to clean this. So I can see you clearly and I can actually relate to you as a real human. Not the projections of all the stuff that I didn't say or bring up in the relationship.

Totally. And I feel by doing this clearing overall that, you know, 30 minutes to an hour a week is nothing. It's not even like a TV show. Right. But how many weeks of our life gets wasted on like one issue in our relationship? Months or years? If you have to go through a divorce, that's years of your life that you're going to be like overcoming that. Whereas these check ins, it's like not cleaning your room ever, you know, just like accumulating things. Accumulating things. And you know, right now as I'm moving out of my apartment, I'm like, I never even want to buy things again. It takes so long to clear it. Right. But it's like we're living like that. We're accumulating resentment, we're accumulating words unspoken. And I feel the reason why. It's, it's like never the right time. We're like, he's busy, he's got a lot going on. And so it's like, you gotta set a time. But yeah, I think the biggest thing that you might Hear pushback on is, I don't even have time for this meeting. But it's like, what if you don't have time for this meeting? It's like, the relationship will likely.

We make time for what we prioritize.

Exactly.

And if you want to prioritize the relationship, you can't cross your fingers and just hope it goes well. Oh, you're just doing life. That's how it's going to turn out. Like, you want to be in. You don't do that with your business. With your business. You're on your. You're dialed in. Can you do the same thing in the relationship? And for a lot of guys, when I'm. When I'm mentoring couples, the shift for them is recognizing that that same drive that they have for their purpose or for work, especially if they're entrepreneurial, if you can have that same energy of being on it and on your shit, maybe it's health or something. Have that same energy. When it comes to the dynamic of the relationship, it's gonna flourish. But the scary part is you have to be a novice. You have to be okay at not knowing things. And that's just hard for a lot of guys, egos. And I. I get it too.

So do you guys have a shared morning practice and what is that like?

We don't. I'm a get up out of bed and go type of person. And she loves laying in bed and chilling in very slow mornings.

Do you guys sleep and wake up at the same time?

Yeah, we do now. And, you know, some days I get up and go, and some days I lay in bed with her. It just depends. It's the flex flow of it all. And I'm sure that as we continue to deepen in our connection, like, we'll find a happy medium there. But right now, it's kind of a this or that type of a thing.

Okay. And do you guys have a shared evening practice or dinner together?

I would say yeah. Yeah. I would say the biggest practice that we share together is praying.

Praying.

Every morning, we'll pray together. Every night, we'll pray together. And that has been our. Our anchor.

So, like, what is it from a faith or what kind of prayer is it?

Prayers of gratitude, prayers of protection, prayers of whatever's showing up in our lives. Just, it helps. In my opinion, one of the biggest things that it does, obviously, other than connecting with God together, is for the union. It is showing us that we're on the same team.

Mm.

It's praying together that we're doing life Together instead of, I don't know, not like so many couples have their defenses up against each other and are attacking each other. I wish she was different. I wish that this thing would change or da, da, da. It's like, that's your teammate. And I think we've lost as a culture and as a collective, the ability to look at relationships as the teamwork. And oftentimes it's not necessarily like, even if I have some trigger come up, for example, we see it as, it's us against, quote, unquote, the trigger. It's not, oh, that's Kevin's stuff. He needs to work on his stuff. It's what can we do together? Like, I'm in this with you. Your pain is my pain. Your triggers are my triggers. Let's go. Like, that's somebody who has your back and that's what ultimately makes a difference. Again, being a team player and actually being growth oriented and both of you being willing to shift and change and evolve because who you are right now isn't who you are going to be in five years. And especially if you want to enter into a committed relationship, things get to evolve and shift. And so it's like, yes, love me for who I am, but you should also date that person for their potential because that's who they're growing into. And as the woman and the man too. But I've really seen this play out in dynamics. Women are the voice of God for men in a lot of ways, because you are the oracle. You are more divinely connected than a lot of men are. And so who are you speaking to? Are you speaking to the king you see in him, or are you speaking to the fool you see in him? Whichever one you speak to is going to show up. And so it's just really important to note, like the power that you hold and the power you have in relationship because you are the number one most influential person in that person's life.

I want to zoom into that. Speaking into the king and fool in him. A lot of friends of mine, you know, they're in relationships where they're not being met. Maybe the man has done things out of integrity. And so it feels quite impossible for them at this moment right now to. To see the king in him. They're contemplating even being in the relationship, right?

Yeah.

But then it feels like the more that they're telling him, you know, that they're unhappy, he feels not enough and kind of gets small again. And it just, rather than what she really wants is she's like, you're acting like a boy, you need to be a man. And that feels like the most offensive thing you can tell a man. So without bypassing how we really feel, be able to speak into the king in him when that might not be.

Present right now, I'll first off just say, I see you in that. And that goes for both parties, by the way. I've been in men's groups hearing about guys and that dynamic, but it is more loud with women. Own your experience as your experience. I'm not feeling safe. I'm not feeling heard. I'm whatever is happening not. You need to change that so that I can feel this a certain way. And if you want to evoke the hero in a man, you present a problem and let him present the solution. So it's, you know, I'm not feeling safe anymore. I'm not feeling these. I'm not feeling these things. What can we do about it? Again, there's the we. I would love to work this through with you. What can we do about it? What ideas do you have? And then you'll really see where he's truly at. Is he a team player or is he going to be like, well, that's your stuff. And I can be a hard wake up call for a lot of people, but that's what I've seen work. And I'll also speak for myself because I've been an idiot as a man in a lot of ways. I've learned from my mistakes. And what works for me is the feeling of trust and is the feeling of and I love you as you are, but if you continue to be this way, it's not for me. So I'm not going to change you, but I'm letting you know what I'm wanting. That's the posture. And I'll stick around to see and we'll work through this together. But like, this ain't it for me. And that was like, oh, fuck, okay, I want this. So I'm going to show up and work on myself. And that's what allowed me to lean into the work as a man. And I've had it be the other way where it felt like the coaching almost and that just put my defenses up even more. It didn't work. It wasn't effective.

I think what's hard as a woman, it feels like the only way a man will change is when you're willing to walk away. And then a lot of women are like, do I need, like, pretend I'm gonna walk away so he'll change or like, do I actually have to, like, walk away? You know, and especially if you have children.

Yeah, there's a lot there, I think, just the lack of initiation of men, the lack. The honestly, laziness when it comes to relationships. That it's, again, it's all about the pursuit. Just like a lot of women are all about how do I manifest the guy and a lot of guys, like, how do I get the girl? And then cool, then what? That's what we don't talk about. And that's why I'm mentioning so much about teamwork, because that's really the shift that gets to happen.

Yeah. My prayer is that more people will actually work on, like, continuing, because I feel like in every relationship there's going to be a series of really big initiations that are like, crossroads of are you going to stay together through this or. Or be apart? And, you know, sometimes I question, I'm like, maybe our generation, we're not meant to be with one person for the rest of our life, you know, like, maybe it's. I want that, you know, But I'm like, at what cost? Yeah, right. So how do you know when to walk away?

I'll say this. With Melanie, my partner now, we were on and off all by my doing for a while, and I did walk away and we ended things. And I, in letting it go, did a lot of work, fully let it die. I didn't want to let it go, though. That was the thing in my mind. I was like, this makes absolutely no sense. What am I doing? But this feeling in my body was like, this ain't it, this ain't it, this ain't it. And I let it go. Fully let go of any chance of getting back together. And we ended up getting back together. So I don't say that to be like, oh, let's just let it go, and you might have a chance. But, like, I was guided by God. I don't know how else to put it. God told me to leave. I recognized why, because relationship was the number one priority in my life and not my devotion to God, which needed to shift big time. And the only way it was going to happen was that, you know, I'm a relationship coach. I love love. Like, it was really hard for me personally. I'll say another way, you know, to walk away is like, if there's abuse of any kind, that's a pretty big sign you can still love somebody and not be with an abusive partner. You know what I mean?

What if there was lying?

So I'll say This, my podcast. I've interviewed couples who've been together for over a decade, and they're still passionately in love. And every single one of them has gone through something that would have ended the relationship. Any other person could have been, like, they cheated. They cheated on each other. There was. They were hiding, like, what they were spending money on. It was like, big stuff, not, you know, not small things. And they chose to forgive and they chose to lean in. And so I think at the end of the day, it is a choice. Can you see past the person's behavior and have you fallen in love with who they are as a person and not what they're doing in the world or what they have or what they don't have, but like, their character and who they are, their essence, the essence of that soul. And it's a choice. Like, you'll know when to walk away because your body will tell you. Get silent. Stop scrolling on Instagram. Like, stop asking everybody around you can you can you know what's for you? Ultimately, that's like, make the decision for yourself, is what I would say.

How long do you think we should sit with that? Let's say you're kind of questioning if relationships for you or not. Do you feel do a trial separation or what are your thoughts?

Every person is so unique and every situation is so unique. It's hard to say a blanket statement like that. The biggest thing that I'll say is, how much do you trust God and how much do you trust yourself? Maybe put the focus on that instead of the decision and then let alignment align you. So, because ultimately, if you. If you're like man, I trust God is going to do what's best for me always. I trust that if this isn't it, there's something better for me. I trust that if this is it, this is for me. And this. I'm growing and I'm learning through this. I trust that I'm exactly where I need to be, even though this sucks, even though it's confusing, even though, like, I don't. I'm so. I feel like I'm lost. Can we trust that that's where we need to be and that's where God's placed us. Then can you trust yourself that even if you do leave or even if you do get heartbroken, you can pick yourself up again? And if you trust that you're in the right place, the right time, and you trust that you could pick yourself back up again, the decision isn't as scary because you haven't given Your power away. You know what I mean? So then it's like, okay, now that I'm in my sense of power fully, do I want to work on this? And then we gotta address the grass is greener on the other side type of thing. Because that's always going to be there, especially in the world we live in today with so many options.

Perceived options.

Perceived options. Yeah, that's true too. Yeah.

Yeah. It's interesting because, you know, after in my marriage finding out that my then husband was cheating on me, my big question was, how am I ever going to trust men again? Like, I felt like this ability was robbed from me. How will I ever trust someone again when I trust this person wholeheartedly and they were lying to me the whole time? And then I had that realization, which took many months of. It's not around. How can I trust men? You can't wholeheartedly trust that anyone will never hurt you. Even your best friend, your. They are gonna hurt you. They are gonna. Even if you're together for us, they're gonna break your heart. Right? But I can trust myself, myself that no matter what happens, I can get out of it. I can rebuild myself, I can heal myself. And if you're able to get through one really big heartbreak that you didn't see coming, it's like after that, it's like you. You start to know the maps, know the terrains. Now I'm like, takes like two to three business days. Cry, this glow up. You know, it goes on and. But I do feel it's like a lot of us have that fear of like, how will I ever fully trust someone when it's not. It's no human? You know, it's like, even if it's unintentional and it's like, yes, you want to have trust in your partner, but ultimately it's trust in yourself and trust in God. And now I can trust that that situation needed to happen to me for a greater reason because it's who it made me become. And I can trust there was actually no avoiding that situation, right? And so I was like, oh, did I pick the wrong person? Did I not see the red flags? Like, what did I do wrong? And what much contemplation and medicine and all the things are like, there was no other way. But then I think the fear comes of like, okay, what if I'm feeling all these synchronicities and flow with this person and it's another karmic situation. So it's like, when is it the shift between like the like lessons, learning relationships and like someone that you're just like, we're good here. Let's like co. Create humanity.

I'll say this and I'll speak from experience because I used to be the person that was always looking for my person. Always first date. Even in the back of my head, like, is this what's going on?

I mean, same.

Yeah, right. And I think that's a lot of people. And when I let that go, I realized it was her. I'm gonna say that again. When I stopped trying to find it, I found it.

Okay. Like, easier said than done.

And that's my lived experience.

Like I did you already know her?

Yeah, we. We were on and off and I was like, oh, I don't know if you're my person and. But I love you so much and I just think like, how you are isn't what I want. And I don't see it fitting. It. It was really this like angst, weird energy that I was having and then I let it go and I.

Were there some like, non negotiables that you had that weren't that she did not have or was it just like more. I want. I would prefer this preference.

Okay, it was preference. She is so amazing in so many ways. That made me uncomfortable, honestly, because of how like big in some ways she was that I was so playing small.

Which is a common theme.

Totally, totally. And so it was making me uncomfortable and my insecurities were coming up and all this stuff that was very unexpected. And I started making it into stories in my head about like, oh, well, no, this isn't my person. And when I said, you know what? I'm just going to trust that I'll feel it when I feel it. Then I started feeling it instead of like trying to figure it out in my head. And so I think, can. Can you trust that when you know, you'll know. Like truly, can you trust that when you know, you'll know. And until then, just keep living with an open heart. And if it doesn't work out, cool. You learn some lessons. Like you don't. Like, love isn't scarce.

Yeah, it's interesting because it's like that balance of like, love isn't scarce and if it doesn't work out with someone, there will be someone else. And also love is rare. And sometimes we're like, I'll just find someone else, you know, and it's like that in between of like every person. You will never find that specific person in your specific relationship again. But you may find one that's better suiting you in certain ways and not in other ways, you know?

Yeah, yeah. It's a choice.

Yeah.

Who do you want to run a three legged race with?

Do you feel there's any kind of destiny in who you end up with?

You know, I, I feel like there's somewhat predestined karmic, like we're supposed to play this out thing that happens, but then you tie that in with like free will and it may not happen in this lifetime because of decisions that we've made. I also see the perspective that we have multiple people that we could play it out with and that's then a choice. And again, it all comes down to choice. Like just pick a horse and ride it. Who do you want to do life with? And it changed for me when I saw how much of a team player she was and how much of a team player I wasn't. And when I started shifting into me, I'm so growth oriented. I saw it and I was like, oh, like I've been looking at all the ways to get a woman, not all the ways to be in the relationship for a long time. Even though this is what I study, I was like, oh, okay.

And if you're someone that studies it, imagine the rest of them.

Yeah, yeah. And so the more that I'm going through, why was I not claiming? Why was I not a team player? Why was all the things within me. I'm able to like articulate that better for men now and it's been really beautiful.

So can you speak to the men out there who maybe they're seeing an incredible woman, but it's maybe like they don't feel they. Where they're at where they're supposed to be in their career, you know, that's a big one. They just don't feel like they can give enough time for a relationship. Maybe they feel like they're not ready for her. Like she has such a big energy and maybe it's even bring up insecurities. What would you speak to them?

She just wants your presence. It's not about the money. Even if she says it is, it's not about the time. Even if she says it is. She wants your presence and so can you be with her on the build. Even though you feel insecure and you might feel lost, you don't feel, you feel disconnected from your purpose and she's still choosing you. Can you just show up and be present with her in that? Show up in integrity. Let her know you have the insecurities. You don't need to push her away. Can you bring the insecurities up? That's called a secure relationship. It's not a relationship without any insecurities. It's a relationship where you can bring your insecurities up and talk about it together as a team. That's where the real safety is created. Because then you're like, man, I can talk about absolutely anything with this woman. This. And I'll say for men, and even in my own experience, they knew when they felt like she had us back. Like, I trust you no matter what, even if you keep falling on your face, even if we got to live in a cardboard box, I just want to do life with you. And I was like, man, at the end of the day, that's what it's all about. I just need to be myself and be present with her. That's it. There's nowhere to go. There's no gold medal. That. That's the journey as a man. And I was like, oh, I've been viewing relationships wrong. I was viewing it as getting married and then the kids and then the thing. And like, these check bliss, like benchmarks to go through that I was rushing to get through, to get to. And now I'm just like, it's a dance to be danced. There's nowhere to go. I had so much, like, tension and anxiety in my relationship prior because of all of this stuff unconsciously of. I didn't have the money that I wanted to have. I didn't have the. The health even, because I was dealing with some health stuff. Like, I didn't have all things. My life wasn't ready for her. Why. You know, why me and all the things. And then I saw what she saw, which was just who I am as a person. That's all that really matters. So then you fall in love with the journey, and it's just something to go do together, and you just have a teammate for the journey.

So beautifully said around the presence piece, because I feel for a lot of women, yes, they may. We may think that we want the money and the time. However, it really is just someone being there with us, right? Because if someone takes us on a date and they're on their phone the whole time, doesn't really mean anything or, you know, it's. It's someone really seeing you. And I feel that we're all just, like, passing through life, and that's why relationships are so desired, because it's like we're so replaceable in this world. Like, we're just little ants that are gonna die and be forgotten, like just a fact. But it's like a relationship. You are the entire world to a person, right? And that feeling, it's. It's unlike anything else. But then I find it's like we. We want the relationship to have that. And then once we're in it, this feeling of aloneness that we often have of like, it's almost like, like you said, you get into the relationship and now it's like now focusing on the next thing built. And I hear from a lot of men, I need to build the empire, you know, and it's this like, okay, got the girl. Build the empire. And the women are like, like, I miss you. Like, I miss being with you. I miss, you know, like. And women often feel like, I signed up for this kind of relationship because that's who you were. And now you feel like you have me and it's not really a priority to you anymore. And I also have compassion for the men who are like, I can't simultaneously give you the attention that you want while building the empire. But then it almost like, reduces the feminine to like, she just wants attention. Right?

They're blind. Men are blind to seeing that when they lean into the relationship and their business at the same time. Who they are and how they show up in both goes up. But if they're just like all in on the relationship and then they're slacking their business and then you don't have purpose and then your inner fire dies and you're feeling and then she's in it with you and at least that's going great. But, like, you're mopey. Then you got the other end of the spectrum where you're build locked in. You're like, doing the thing, but you're ignoring your relationship. Like, that's going to eat at you. Your capacity is going to go down. You're probably going to feel burnt out. It's going to nag at you that she's not feeling happy. And then you're going to have this deep subconscious, like, not enoughness or like, oh, I just need to keep building so that then she can feel happy. And it's like, that's not the route. The challenge is, can you lean into as a man, can you lean into both? It. What's being asked of you is more of you. It has nothing to do with time. It's not about the dishes. It's not about your stuff in your business. It's not about your time schedule. Can you show up with more presence in all of your life and then zoom out and think about, like, what the matters to you, right? Yeah. Build the empire, build the business, Leave an impact. And if you're so focused on impact and then the people around you are negatively impacted by you, what does that say about where you're coming from? So it's just an integrity check. And it's also like a challenge. Like, yeah, you're. You feel like you're giving all you've got to your business. And then she's unhappy. Give even more. Like, that's the opportunity in front of you is to grow spiritually and grow in your capacity and like, grow into the man that can nurture everything and everyone around him instead of just focus on the one thing. And I get it. It's. It's tough. It's a dance. Like, there's life. And then you add kids in the mix and you add social life in the mix, and you add your health in the mix and like all of it. But don't lose yourself when you're in pursuit of something. Like, and I'm talking to the guys, Fall in love with the hunt, Fall in love with the pursuit. Don't. Not necessarily the end product, because you'll get to the end and then recognize you were miserable the whole time. And then you'll create another goal and another goal and another goal. You'll look up in 10 years and be like, what did I do with my life?

Do you see yourself one day starting a podcast, writing books, speaking on stages, sharing your message with the world? But the thing is, you are afraid that you're not a good enough speaker yet. Maybe you're inspired by people like me and Gabby Bernstein and you know, you have it within yourself too, but you just don't know where to start. Well, I have gotten this question so many times, and this is why I've created my speak with soul 21 day method. This guides you from awkward to confident speaker in just three weeks time. I guide you through daily prompts, practices, and share all of the wisdom that I have learned as a professional speaker, podcaster, author, and someone who literally makes a living sharing my voice as well as through music, and how you can too, in your own unique way. So the testimonials from Speak with Seoul are insane. I have seen people literally be hired to host their own radio shows, hundreds of people start their own podcast, create YouTube channels, IG Live series, get book deals, the list goes on. So whether you want to professionally share your voice or just get better in conversation and connection and just feel More confident in what you say and not feel like you're so in your head and release any fears or hesitations you have around the way that you're voice sounds and its pitch. Well, this course covers all of it. So it's just 10 minute daily videos for 21 days that I promise you, if you follow this process, you will be a completely other person on the other side. Because truth is, when is the last time you spent any time on your speaking? For most of us, it was like maybe a awkward speech in high school and we never touched again. So speaking is the way that we communicate with the world. It's the most important thing we can do. It's the way that we get our message across. And I know if you're listening to this podcast, you have a really important message to share because regular people don't listen to this podcast. So if you're feeling the call, come join me in Speak with Soul. I have a special 25% off discount for you listed below. So head over to the show notes or over to Speak with soul. Soul course.com, that's speak with soul course.com to receive the 25% off right now. And you can also find that link in the show notes. I'm so excited to hopefully be on your podcast. Thank you for speaking that truth. And it was really felt. And I feel as a woman sometimes like we even feel bad for taking up space in the relationship. I will speak for myself. It's like I almost feel like who am I to ask for a weekly check in on the relationship? He has so many other things going on. He's so busy with his life. I don't wanna be a burden. So let me just soothe myself to get my needs met by my friends. Busy myself with things. Oh, he's working late at night. That's totally fine. I'll just do this meditation. Oh, he can't do this. That's totally fine. And it's like I saw that in my own marriage. I was like, I want him to live his dharma all the time and I don't wanna be a burden at all. And so I got all my needs met, et cetera, and was almost like the little girl waiting for dad to like finally have enough time for her. And the thing is, that day never comes because once they're done with whatever project they're working on, just another one comes and another one comes. And it's really. Until we shift our priorities.

I'll say this to the ladies, if you start to notice that that happens, don't bring it up to him as a need. Take initiative and do it. Dress all sexy, cook for him and like create a fucking evening with him. You have the power to do that. I think a lot of women, women pull back and wait for him to initiate it all.

I wish it was that easy, you know, But a lot of men who are really like mission oriented, they'll be like, oh, wow, like love that. And like I, I mean, maybe sometimes, but you kind of get into this maybe like routine that it's like your work, your work, your work. So I feel like for a lot of women, they almost is. And it's also like, you don't really want to objectify yourself in that way of like, I'm not getting my needs met. He's not there for me. Now I got to wear some fudgeing lingerie and hope he wants to pay attention to me. Oh no, still doesn't. Now I'm feeling rejected.

Say it, say it in that setting. Like, can you. What I'm really saying is, can you initiate it instead of if you've tried to bring it up and it's not.

I feel like as a woman, when I've brought up this conversation before, of like, I wish we would have more time together. I would love to do weekly check ins. This. It's like the relationship's fine, everything's fine.

Then you get to say it's not with me.

Right?

Yeah, it's not for me. I, I'm wanting more.

And then they'll explain how they have so much going on in their work and it's a busy season and. And then it just almost feels like you kind of have to like throw your hands up and surrender.

Do you?

Or walk away. But that's a lot more difficult when you're in a long term relationship or marriage, you know?

Right. This is how this makes me feel. I'm having, I have this request, can we do this together again? Like creating a togetherness with it. I'd like to do this together. Not I need you to make time for me. It's a little bit different.

Do you use like the non violent communication? Like when you did this? I felt that.

Yeah, totally. Yeah. Just how much can you take from a posture of look, this relationship isn't meeting my needs in all the ways it's great, but it's, it's good, but it's not great. I'm having some stuff come up for me. Can we do, can we try this together?

Yeah.

You know, that's a little bit different than like this needs to happen.

Yes. I feel like it's, you know, even a little 30 minute thing and really speaking from your heart of its importance.

Yeah.

I also feel a lot of men, especially in their 30s. Right. It feels like this chapter, this season is like, this is a work first season.

It is for a lot of guys.

And it is for a lot of guys, but it's also the season of family for most women, you know, which is like a. I don't know why God made this design. It makes no fucking sense. I'm asked. We got lots of questions on this. But then it's like, it almost feels like the goals are quite different, the priorities are quite different and they need to be more interdependent because to build, to have a family, there needs to be like better communication than ever before when you're bringing in children into the mix. But then almost, it feels like a lot of men feel like, oh kids, God. To work more to provide for them and that becomes the priority instead of like, oh, the mother who will be like bearing them and raising them and like the. My main collaborator with them, you know.

Yeah, yeah, there's, there's a lot there. I haven't crossed that bridge yet, so I can't speak from experience, but I, I'll say that that's the season that I've witnessed where it's like double down.

On the teamwork now. I will say in a future relationship, I would love to have like a shared morning or evening ritual. I love that you guys pray together because I feel like it's so easy, so easy in this society to be like two individuals living in the same home. Right. That I see in so many couples. They sleep at different times, wake up at different times, eat different foods, have different friends. And it's like all in the name of like independence and sovereignty. Right. Of like, you be exactly who you want to be and I'll be exactly who I want to be. And I think our generation is really good at that. But we've almost gone so much the other way from our families that it's like, okay, where it, like, what's the culture of this family that we're building? You know, so do you have any practices on that of like, what are our shared cultures, values together as a couple and family?

You could, you know, do a whole thing and write it out and get it on paper and like have it be this clear thing that works for some people. For us, it's through the relationship check ins. We kind of are creating it now. We're getting a pulse for it, you know, like, where we're at right now at the time of me filming this is very new because we did end things and come back together. And it feels like a totally different dynamic. And so we're in that space of finding out and figuring out what that is and the dance of sovereignty and like an interdependent relationship. You know, I think as a culture, we have swung the pendulum in the other direction, and I don't fully see that, oh, this is me, and this is like, if you keep taking the stance of this is just who I am, there's no wiggle room for and I'm going to grow together with you. It's just, this is me, and you're along for the ride until it just doesn't work anymore. And it's like, okay, well, if that's how you want to live your life, you want to prioritize you just being you, or do you want to prioritize a relationship and who you get to be in a relationship? Because that's totally different. And there is some sacrifice, There is some give and take, There is some. It does require work. But that's. That's, in my opinion, why we get into it, so we can spiritually evolve into more compassion and more love and more. More wholeness within ourselves that we can't do when we're just independent doing ourselves.

Yeah, I love what you said around a lot. I hear a lot of people say, this is who I am. You just have to accept me as who I am. As if our personality is this, like, stagnant thing that as, like, my personality shifted 10 million times and it will continue to. Right. It's like personalities don't actually even exist. You know, it's just past experiences accumulated into this moment, which are always going to be changing. But I feel, yeah, we have gone into, like, I'm just a. This kind of guy, and I love that. And I think that's a really great thing to share in a relationship now. The struggle that a lot of women have is I become his coach. I become the one bringing all the relationship advice. I become the one. He's never going to listen to this podcast, so I have to listen to it and then, you know, regurgitate it to him, and he's doesn't even take it seriously when he hears it for. From me. So what advice do you have when your partner is not working with a coach, not working with a therapist, not seeking out podcasts like this?

If there's a complete aversion to that, the best thing you can do is to start hanging out around couples who have a relationship that you want. Just start hanging out around them, become their friend to do double dates, a couple, stuff together. Things are going to open up. And I think, like, even for us, that's one thing that we seek out is not necessarily counseling, because we're not there necessarily. We don't need it. Feel like we need it right now. There will probably be a day where we need it. And until then, we're surrounding ourselves with couples that are very inspiring to us, that have been together for a while, that aren't even our age, and having fun with them and just feeling and being around their essence and, like, what they've cultivated and the way they talk together and the way that they move together. It's just. It's a learning school in and of itself.

That's the truest facts right there of being friends with people. Because for me, I ended up being, like, neighbors with this girl. That someone connected me on Instagram. When I moved to Miami right after I got married and was friends with this couple for two years, my ex would sometimes see them, sometimes not. They were more my friends. But then finally, him and her husband became better friends, and he brought him to the Wachuma ceremony, which is what led to the confessions and what led to our divorce truth. But the truth. The truth set us free.

Yeah.

And if he didn't become friends with him, it took two years to build enough trust with this guy because he was not super into spirituality, but to build enough trust to be like, oh, I actually like you. I actually want to, like, learn about the things that you do. Until the time he was ready for plant medicine, and it was like. And I really believe that couple was like, a doula for both of us to step into our greatest freedom. And so I feel. And. And it's interestingly enough, because that couple, most of their friends are old, older couples.

Interesting.

So there's a lot to that.

Yeah. Yeah. I would say that's for. For anybody. Like, find a couple. Like, who are you surrounding yourself with? If you're surrounding yourself with people that you wouldn't want to trade love lives with, like, you're going to be fed all that stuff, even if it's gossip, even if it's advice. Also, like, on social media, like, who are you following that? There's so much on my opinion out there on social media that's gonna put you in the state of mind that you're gonna sabotage things because you're always Coming from defense. And you're viewing everything through attachment styles, or you're viewing everything through masculine feminine energy. And it's like, well, now you're not even relating to the person in you front of of you. You're just like, oh, they're this and that. And I'm being feminine masculine right now. And it's like, can you just be with the person? Like, what the. It's kind of annoying to me.

Yeah. You are in your toxic, masculine, dismissive avoidant, which is bringing up my past life trauma of being burned at the stake as a witch. And you know. Yeah.

As you do Overheard in Austin.

No.

Yeah. And it's like, cool. That might be true, but can you just be with the person in front of you instead of the concepts that you are labeling it as?

Yeah, I feel like these concepts and I can totally. You know, it's like as an empath, I find myself in every single one of them. I'm like, maybe I'm in this and maybe I'm a that and maybe I'm. And I'm like, save, save, save. But it's like, I think these things are all theory, right? And at the end of the day, it's like, relationship is like a living, breathing thing with so much nuance. But a question I have on friendship, I've had this. I think a lot of women have had. This is like, you don't like your man's friends, you know, and for a lot of my friends, they're like, even the people he's around are like, cheating not in integrity, you know, and it's like. But these are like his childhood friends or, you know, people he doesn't want to get rid of. So it's like, what do you do in that situation that you don't like the crowd he surrounds himself with?

I think that's very telling because you are who hang out around. So whether he. Even if he doesn't want to, if he's swimming in that pond, eventually it's gonna.

He might be like, I'm helping them out. Like, I think a lot of. A lot of men feel like this responsibility of like, oh, he's my homie from high school. I gotta help him. But it's still keeping them around. And it's like, if I. To me, I'm like, if you're in such a different level of consciousness, like, why would I still want to be around this person? But I'm curious. Yeah. Would you explicitly say, like, hey, I really don't like you being around this person or Yeah.

I mean, I've never personally been in that situation as a man. I've never been like, I don't want any friends. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that and also, like, flip side, like, I've never about her friends been like, I don't really like that. So I can't speak from personal experience there, but I will say, yeah, show how it makes you feel. You know, it makes me feel this way. Then I create a story that you're gonna cheat on me because they're all cheating and it just doesn't make me feel good.

Period.

End of story. And maybe keep bringing it up. And you. That's how you evoke the hero in a man. It's for him to provide a solution. Even if you think you know what the solution is, get rid of the friends. But like, you know, like, can it, can it be his own idea?

What about if it's hard for you to find a couple to double date with because they don't like any of your friends. Partners?

I would say get creative and maybe try to find new friends together. Can you make a game out of it? How could it be fun for both of you to find new people that neither one of you know? Could you make a date night out of that and like, go try to find people and that you're like, how can you spark it up? Instead of like, you need to meet this specific person, you know, like, they're so rigid. It's where, it's where can you. Can you open it up together? That would be my advice of like, how could you make that fun? But again, it's. This is really hard because I've never been in that. That situation myself.

Yeah.

Or heard much of it. But I know it's a lot out there.

I think. I think it happens a lot when you're just in very different worlds and in like, different communities.

Yeah.

And it does illustrate probably a big difference between you guys. But I remember in my previous relationship, definitely different friends. And it was very hard to find people that we both like, couples that we both like. Eventually I think we found one, but it definitely took a long time because he was very like, eye rolly of like, oh, God, God. The like, spiritual dudes and stuff. And I was just like, maybe you just don't want to be seen, you know? But now I'm like, I would personally not choose someone that I don't like their friends.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's a good place to start.

Yes. But a lot of women are already in the relationship, so it's like, it's yeah. Challenging for them.

Now make it a game. Can you find couples together? I would also say, like, could you hang out with their friends, even though you may not like them? And make it like a trade? Like, cool, I'll go hang out with y' all if you hang out with mine. And, like, let's. Let's just see. Can we try it? Like, I know that there's an aversion to it. Eye rolling. Like, cool, I'll eye roll with you. Can we, like, do this together? Just open the door. Right. And not trying to force it too much.

Okay. Let's talk about families of partners. What if you aren't a fan of the family?

Again, haven't had personal experience with that one, but I've coached a lot of people who have been in that situation. Cultural differences, the whole nine. Collaboration. The only thing I can really say on this is collaboration and teamwork. Can you remember that? Your partners and you're. You're focusing on the relationship working. Not necessarily what it looks like to a family dynamic, because you're creating your own right now. And so the culture of the relationship, the love meetings, all the things. And give it time. Especially if there are things within the family dynamic that are playing out with you and their family or whatever it is.

Do you think it's ever our role to say what we see as dynamics in the family? Typically, I see the woman is more into relationships and emotions and things like that. So she'll see. And typically, not always. Men are like, I love my family. Everything's been great with my family. Zero childhood trauma. Yeah, exactly. The woman's like, oh, cool. And then she's like, oh, I'm sensing some enmeshment here. I'm sensing some, you know, whatever dynamics are. And then she doesn't know if she can say something, especially if the man can often get very defensive.

Yeah. I'm thinking about Melanie right now, my partner, and how she'd bring it up. She'd probably say something like, like, you sure that's not, like, enmeshment or something? She would bring it up as a question is what I feel she would do. And that would be palatable for me, where I'd be able to, like, sit with and reflect versus, well, this is like this. And it's like, whoa. Then you get defensive because I'm like, hey, that's my mom. Like, you know, so maybe bringing it up with curiosity, it would be how I would recommend.

And what if they're like, no, it's not.

Well, I think a Lot of what you've been saying, whether it's with friends or with family, is like this harsh, like inability to see another perspective.

Yeah. And may start like that and then they might open up with time.

Yeah. And it's like, can you in a skillful way flirt with it? Can you make it funny? Can you like mock him for it a little bit, like in a cute way? You know what I mean? Like, could you play with it instead of being like, can you just open up? Because then it's gonna. First it's. You're adding frustration, energy into the culture of the dynamic. And you are choosing this person at the end of the day, unless you don't want to. So it's like, okay, if I'm choosing this and this person's really stubborn minded, could I like loosen it up with some humor? I don't know, try things and like at the end of the day that's all we can do.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Yeah. I like the posing it as a question. A dynamic I see a lot of my friends have been in is feeling a clash between their partner's mother and them in terms of just how they live their lives, you know, perspectives, et cetera. And obviously no man wants to feel in between, you know, the most important woman of their lives. It's the last place they want to be. When do you feel it's like time to shift into, I need to take care of how my wife or my partner feels in this dynamic versus, like, I need to protect how my mother feels in this.

There's a lot of where he's at in his own maturity. Has he disconnected from his mom, like straight up?

Yeah.

You know, like if he hasn't and he's still, no matter what age he is.

Can you speak into that? Because I think most men have it.

In the development of men, your mother is the safe space, Your mother is the nurturer. Your mother is the one that's supposed to show you safety, normalcy, a sense of, of love, compassion, being held, all the things, especially when you're an infant. Right. And then you get, literally get your nutrients from your mother, spiritually and physically. And then as you grow up into adolescence, you, you start to explore and venture around, but you're still kind of staying around mom, she's like the home base. But you're gonna go explore over here and do crazy things here and, and learn from dad over here, but then you still come back and there comes a time where you, you need to make a very conscious choice to Live your life for you and to like, leave the nest, so to speak. And my nest leaving was very tumultuous because it was like, no, mom, not gonna go to college. Like, I'm not gonna do this for you. And I was. I struggled a lot because I got a lot of financial support from the household and everything. And I went off on my own. And it wasn't like, fuck you, mom, but it was. It was more of like, I need to do this for myself. Like, can you let me go? Because it was this, like, mothering, controlling energy a little bit. And that was in my personal experience. And so I did take some space from talking with her. And again, it wasn't out of ill intent or anything, but it was just like, I need to. And I don't think a lot of men do that. They keep that home base umbilical cord alive, you know what I mean? And because they love their mom and all the stuff. And it's like, I have this thing with my parents. It happened right when I left high school, where I started to wake up and realize that they were just human beings that brought me into Earth, and they're as fucked up as everybody else, and they don't know anything more than I do. In some regards. In some regards, they do. But, like, I don't. I didn't gottify my parents. I took them off the pedestal. I was like, oh, I'm just gonna go figure this out. And that was an initiation process in and of itself for me that then I was able to come back together and reconnect with them. My father, before he passed, and now my mom, to build a different relationship with them. And in that, I have a very strong sense of my own sovereignty. So my mom's always gonna say, like, as long as it makes you happy, I'm happy. She's that type of mom, even if she doesn't get it and doesn't make sense. So I've been very blessed in that. And I can also tell if she doesn't make her happy and she's angry about it, but she's ultimately like, just wants me to be happy, so I'm blessed in that way. But, you know, let's say that I didn't have that. If I. If I didn't really disconnect and go out on my own and, like, take some space and take her off the pedestal for a little bit, I would value her opinion. I probably would have gone to college. I would be in a lot of debt. I don't know what I'd be doing with my life right now because I would have played a life to please my mom instead of a life that I wanted. And in a lot of ways, the. I think the way the superior man talks about this, like, live as if your dad was dead. Because a lot of guys do things to prove to their dad that they're enough, and that is huge. When my dad did die, even though I read the book before and was, like, trying to do it all for myself, when he did pass away, I felt a release in my spirit of, like, I'm free from this thing, that I was, like, trying to be enough, you know, And I'm like. And I recognized I was. And that was a very healing experience in many ways. But, yeah, like, can you be an independent person and not live your life for your parents? Like, grow up.

This is so important. And it goes both ways. You know, I think a lot of women are looking for daddy in their relationship. You know, it's like we're looking for someone to save us from ourselves, you know, and there's qualities of father, right. And qualities of mother that I think we, you know, and it's this fine line of, like, to be nurturing in the relationship without being his mother, to be a protector and a provider without being her father, you know, and it's like, as a woman, we need to find our own inner daddy, you know, we need to learn how to be able to provide for ourselves. We need. In this day and age, it's. It's just important, even if you have kids, just to kind of know. In the back of my mind, no matter what happens, I will be able to have myself, even if it is living with sisters. And we, you know, we, like, garden together and live on that. But I think it's. It's when you're just like, I would die without this relationship. That's when you go into really tricky territory, is where you have no choice but to accept, you know, abuse and these horrible situations.

Unless it's not there.

Right?

Which.

Yeah, exactly. But.

But I hear you.

I have found a lot of women will have this fantasy around the man who's going to completely. He's going to find her, be in love with her, provide for her, take care of her. She's never gonna have to work a day in her life again, and they will be happy forever. And, you know, and it's like. And I hope that I really do, you know, And I think a lot of men want that, right? It's just the reality of life and society and the Economy and stuff is like, not necessarily that. So it's like, can we be our own inner daddy and also be open to receiving provision? You know, can men learn to nurture themselves, to take care of themselves, to cook for themselves, to clean their own homes, like to, to do these things so they're not looking for a wife to like be their maid, you know, but rather see it as like a woman, like someone that they get to love. And then when women feel that love and they feel like deep respect. She wants to cook, she wants to do these things like that. Rather than it feeling like the role mates that our society has been playing out.

Yeah, the role mates thing has got to go. It's. I was on a call with a client of mine today, like, and they'll say this for the guys, the little things are the big things. And the more that you continue to pour into her heart and love up on her and show her that she's loved and show her that she's safe and show her that she's seen there is this natural thing that happens in women where you start to blossom in your life, not just for him. And I think a lot of men don't realize that power that they have in that way, a similar way that I was talking about earlier. Like, women are the voice of God to men because you're the oracle, who are you speaking to? Like, if she's not, if she's nagging, if she's complaining a lot, if she's in this weird energy, guys, you're the one that can show up and change that. You have that power, especially as her, her person. And I think that we, we see it and a lot of guys get scared of it because it's directed at them and they don't, they don't see behind it the hurt little girl that's freaking out. And so like you, I think it's a, it's a skill to penetrate whatever's showing up. Like, yes, hear it and hear her out. But can you penetrate it with love and show safety and, and be like, and I'm here type of presence now, what can we do about it? Oh, you want me to shift? Cool, I can do that for you. What else? Like, because at the end of the day, I want you to feel your most lit up self. And if that's the commitment of the relationship which you've got to set up, you have to set those structures of like, I want this to be a full fuck yes for both of us. That looks like this, that feels like this. Now we have a North Star and something we can work towards. And now we have boundaries and rules, so to speak, to the game that we're playing. So it's not just, oh, let's see how it goes, but it's, hey, you broke one of the bound, you stepped outside of the lines, or, hey, you're breaking a boundary, you're not pulling your own right now. What can we do about it? Do we need to shift the rule? Do you need to shift your behavior? Do I need to shift how I'm supporting you right now so you can show up in that way? Like, again, what can we do about it? And that's the teamwork thing. Not like, hey, you step out of the lines, oh, my God, is this my person or not? Da, da, da, da.

And that's what a true man does. And that's the difference right there. Right.

And I'm saying it so that people can understand that.

Yeah. Because what I see play out a lot more so is the woman may say, oh, I really love when you do more of this. He's not listening. It starts to turn into what may be perceived as nagging. She keeps repeating herself. Well, I wonder why. And then what often people do, they shut off. Right. He'll go into his. His cave. He won't really respond to anything. He'll. He'll swarm himself in work. And you just spoke into. You have the ability to stop her behavior right now, to shift the behavior into, like, giving you guys both a yes in your relationship, which is what you really want, but it requires the stepping up and stepping in rather than the shutting out.

I call it the pit of snakes. If there's a rabbit in a giant pit in the ground surrounded by a bunch of venomous snakes, are you gonna go jump in this pit and save the rabbit? I think a lot of guys wouldn't. They just watch. And that same, like, visceral energy comes up because you're going against all your insecurities, your. The ways your mom was mad at you. Like, all this deep stuff subconsciously comes up. It's more than just like, showing up, hey, here I am. I love you. Like, for a guy's psychology as a male straight guy at that, Like, a lot comes up, and it takes a lot to see it and then also to act on it, because maybe she's, like, full on. You're in an argument, you are yelling at each other, or maybe she's, you know, she's right for something and you don't want to admit it or whatever it is. Like, you have to overcome, whether it's your ego, your fears, your insecurities to get to the rabbit which is her heart and come from your heart and say, you know what, I fucked up, or, you know what? I'm here for you and I'm sorry. And what can we do about this? That is a little thing that can change into a very big thing, but you gotta have the courage to jump into a pit of snakes.

Yeah. That is so true. The reason why we avoid something is because we're avoiding how it makes us feel. Right. And I don't even think that most people are conscious of it in that moment of like, she's saying all this stuff and it's like, I just wanna shut it out. But actually it's making me. It's reminding me of my mom yelling at me. It's reminding me of I don't feel like where I'm supposed to be with my life. It's reminding me of all of my insecurities, my abandonment wounds, my this, my that. And so it's like this unconscious, just like, make it go away. Which may have been their coping mechanism, which tends to be more of the masculine coping mechanism of the avoidance and distraction. Right.

Every man's deepest insecurity is that he's not enough. And every woman's deepest insecurities that she's too much. And that is the source of a lot of the interplay and the shadow stuff that comes out in relationships. And I think if we can recognize that and support each other in remembering that those are just false stories and that they're actually our biggest strengths, a lot can shift.

Yeah. And having compassion for both, because ultimately we all want love.

Yeah.

You know, we're on the same team. Right. It's not us against each other, but it's like us against whatever's holding us back from love. And it's like to remember that. And so for people who maybe are in a triggered space with their partner, if you have any prompts or something to invite in more communication from the heart for both.

Well, the first thing you gotta do is it's kind of like playing ping pong. You're going back and forth and the energy's going back and forth. And whoever's more resourced needs to stop the game, which looks like a pattern interrupt. So there's so many different things that you can do. You can get on the floor and like hands like this and try to argue. You're not. You're not going to be able to do it. There's Another thing of, like, close arguing. Like, you slow dance and you try to argue with each other, right? There's other crazy things, like, flash each other that will. How do you break the energy up? You're like, what. What the. Oh, yeah, okay, this is my partner. I'm not. I don't want this energy right now. Then is the after conversation, after you break the energy up, which is coming from the heart. So if it's. If you're trying to come from the heart and it's not working, you're not feeling heard, you got a pattern interrupt. Break the energy in the room. Do something rambunctious and. And crazy, like getting on the floor, slow dancing, flashing each other. And then you can. You're. Now you're somatically connected, and it. What you are saying might be able to be received or you'll come from a different place as well. And so again, more of that teamwork, or can you argue and hold hands? Like, again, showing you somatically that you're on the same team? What can you do to break that up? And then it is dropping into your truth of, you know what? I'm just feeling unheard is really what. And I want you to hear me in that. This is really hard for me. That's all I want. Like, can you. Can you get to what you're really saying without all the stuff. What you really need and make that request known? And I think the sooner you can get there, the easier it is so that somebody can actually meet you there. Right?

It's hard because it's like when you're arguing, I mean, especially for women, I feel like we, like, recoil, right? We're like, don't touch me. Don't come near me. And it's like that. But to try to even, like, holding hand, you're like, oh, God, you know.

Last thing you want to do. Yeah, I don't want to do this.

Right now, but it's like, to remember, like, you're on the same team. And I've definitely seen videos of couples, they're like, face to face, and they're like, trying to have.

And that's the. That's the point of it. It's the last thing you want to do. But that breaks the energy up. And then you're able to come at it with it from a different energy, and then you're able to actually have a conversation. And oftentimes when people are triggered subconsciously, you're going into. You're not arguing or with the person that's in front of you, you're arguing with your ex or your parent dynamic subconsciously. It's like you're not even talking to them. Then you literally time warp. It's the weirdest thing to witness. And so breaking it up allows for that. Like, oh, you're not my dad. Okay. I can relax. You have different intentions. This is different. Oh, now let's interact in this.

What do you think of couples who, like, will argue during text?

Oh, God, please don't.

I've heard some relationship experts say we like to go into different rooms and have our really over text so then we can think through what we want to say and write it out.

I could see that perspective that actually might.

I feel like it would get misconstrued.

Yeah, Yeah. I would say maybe slip a note under the door and do a little bit more cutesy like that. Texting can get so misunderstood because you're.

Really not hearing each other with that.

No, I would say avoid texts Facetime at the. For like facetime or like, yes, like, write letters to each other type of thing.

Letters are good.

Yeah. You have. It's. You have to stop and actually get into your body to write a letter. You don't really have to when you're texting, in my opinion.

Exactly. And it feels a little notebook ass.

Yeah. Right.

You know, I love it. Well, thank you you so much for sharing all your wisdom here with us today. This was so good. So many relational dynamics that we really unraveled here. This is a great conversation for you guys to share with your friends, to share with your partner, to have deeper, more intimate relationships based on love, trust, and union, which is ultimately what we all want. So where can listeners connect with you and learn from you? Further?

The heart guy on Instagram.

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