065: Becoming an Ayurvedic Counselor with John Immel of Joyful Belly School of Ayurveda

Namaste. It's Sahara Rose. And welcome back to the Highest Self podcast, a place where we discuss what makes you your soul's highest evolvement. I'm so excited to share with you this week's episode because it's the answer to a question that I've gotten to so often in the past year, and it's how can I become an Ayurvedic counselor?

And I love that question. We're going to dive deep into that.

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And use Code Sahara, all lowercase letters to get your 35% off discount. So a lot of you guys have read my book. Maybe you've done my program, maybe you've heard about Ayurveda from somewhere else and you want to become a counselor yourself. You're ready to heal the world with Ayurvedic wisdom. You're ready to be amongst the first generation of Ayurvedic practitioners in the US because there really aren't that many. You're ready to share this ancient healing system that includes mind, body, spirit. You want to have a deeper understanding of food, of digestion, of yoga, of life. And that's really what being an Ayurveda counselor is all about. So I'm so excited to interview the founder of Joyful Belly School of Ayurveda. They have two amazing programs and Joyful Belly was actually the biggest resource for me while writing all three of my books. It is basically a database. The founder, John Immel is going to talk about it in this episode, but it's basically a database that has Ayurvedic knowledge about anything you could ever want. You could literally type in a food and it will tell you what are the dosha qualities, what are the gunas which are like the sub qualities. Is it easy to digest, hard to digest? Is it cold, hot? What elements are in it you can put in any sort of health problem you have. I have diabetes, I have eczema, I have thyroid disorder. And it will tell you what are the best foods and the best recipes for you. So it's insane. It's been extremely helpful. And they have two certification programs. The first one is their Masters of Ayurvedic Digestion and nutrition, which is a 500 hour certification. And the second one is the Fundamentals of Natural Healing certification. So that's to become Ayurveda health counselor and that's a 750 hour certification. So in this episode, John's gonna talk all about what both of those include. They're both online. And the second one, Fundamentals of Natural Healing, even has clinics that you can still do online. So you can be anywhere in the and still become a NAMA certified Ayurvedic counselor or digestive coach and NAMA stands for the National Ayurvedic Medical association. And they're also certified by apna, which stands for the association of Ayurvedic Professionals of North America. So truly, if I could go back in time, this is where I would study. I've done so much research about different Ayurveda schools because I'm always asked questions about where to study. And this is what I found is definitely the best, the most comprehensive one, very modernized. He really uses technology and wisdom and there's a lot of live calls on it. A lot of Ayurveda programs that I've even signed up for, they just tell you to buy a bunch of books and you just take a test and you're on your own. And that's not really how a lot of us more modern learners learn. So I've teamed up with John and we are offering a thousand dollar off scholarship for either of their programs. So you can do the Masters of Ayurvedic Digestion, Nutrition or the Fundamentals of Natural Healing. And you'll get a thousand dollars off each, each of their programs. And I am offering some bonuses. So the first bonus is you will be part of my exclusive webinar where I'll be live with you talking about how to build a thriving Ayurvedic practice. So I'll be talking with you about how to secure clients, even if they've never heard of Ayurveda. So how to explain Ayurveda to someone who's really skeptical of it. How to introduce key Ayurvedic topics to groups, how to brand yourself as an Ayurvedic practitioner. So for me, I really had to figure out these things to create my career. And because of these things, I've really gone so far with it. And it's so important because I see a lot of really smart and intelligent and gifted Ayurvedic practitioners, but they don't know how to communicate with people. They don't know how to brand themselves. They don't know how to really express this and bring it out into the world. And because of that, they're not getting the clients that they want. So because of that, for free, for signing up through me, you'll also have that live webinar. I'll be live on the web with you so you can ask me questions. Questions. I'll be talking you guys through it. And I'm just sharing with you all the tips that I've learned from years of trial and error. So you can have a maximum income and also impact and really make your voice heard. Because for so many of us, Ayurveda remains a hobby. I know it was for me because I wasn't making money at it. But when you're making an income doing something, you're actually able to put so much more time into it because you don't have to, like, work that 9 to 5 job just to pay bills and study Ayurved in your free time. When you're making your income from it, then you can put all your energy into it. And then all the time you spend researching and learning more is actually going towards your income. So a lot of people ask me questions, can I really make it as an Ayurvedic practitioner? Can I really provide for myself? And I'm like, absolutely, like beyond. Because it's something that most people are just beginning to learn about. People don't know about it that much. They're only just beginning to scratch the surface. And especially with the boom of yoga, like, Ayurveda is the next thing. I mean, even from when I started practicing seven years ago, literally no one.

Had heard about it.

And now it's like on mind, body green and well and good and chalkboard. And, you know, I'm doing a lot.

To promote it for you guys, so. And I don't work as an Ayurvedic consultant.

For me, I'm all about the education component. So I love training consultants and people like you guys, because you are the people on the ground out there who can start the Panchakarma centers, the detox centers, the spas, who can. You know, there's so much you can do with Ayurveda, and it's just the beginning of the boom. So that's why I really think it's the perfect time for people who are interested to get certified in it, because you're really going to stand out. You're never going to really meet other people who are certified, especially with Ayurvedic digestion. Like, you can really learn about digestion from such a deep level, which John's going to share a lot with us in this episode. He shares with us why Ayurvedic digestion is different from the Western philosophy. And you also learn about how the mind is related and all of these things. I mean, even in his program, he says even if you're a medical doctor, he has a lot of MDs coming in, learning so many new things about the body that they never learned before. So whether you're super educated or you have no education in ayurveda at all. You can still join these programs. And as a second bonus, I've created an exclusive Ayurvedic Healer Facebook group. And this is where you can connect with other students, support, support one another and ask me questions about branding and things like that throughout your studies, so you'll feel really, really well supported. I created both of these bonuses just because I know what it's like to sign up for programs where you have no accountability and no live calls, and that's what makes you not complete them. I've definitely done that, spent a lot of money on that. And that's why I also am endorsing Joyful Belly, because not only are they an accredited Ayurveda school, but they're online so you can be anywhere and they still have one to three weekly live calls. So you will recorded live throughout the process and learn so much about it. So if you're like, I need to learn about this right now. I don't even wanna listen to the podcast.

I wanna learn more.

If you go on my website on iamsaharrose.com you'll see on the home page it says, become an Ayurveda counselor. You just click on that link and I put a lot of information about the program there. The start dates, like the Master of Ayurvedic digestion starts on October 9th, and then the fundamentals starts on August 30th. So that's the only time it starts this year. So if you do want to do it, you got to sign up by then. And they do fill up. It's not something that there's unlimited space for because there is a live call component. And especially for the fundamentals, you're going to be learning how to work with clients, how to do diets for them, how to start teaching Ayurveda in local hospitals, health and wellness clinics, spas, yoga studios.

You'll learn how to create your own herbal formulas.

You'll learn how to work alongside if you want, nurses, medical doctors, nutritionists, yoga teachers, estheticians, massage therapists. You'll be able to look at what people's problems are in their organs and their health tissues, analyze their imbalances, and then use Ayurvedic techniques to bring them to health. So this is a truly, truly amazing program. It's certified by NAMA and apna, which is so rare for an online program. But the reason is because there's so much clinical supervision and live support throughout the program that you truly are ready to take on clients. So we're Offering the ,thousand doll discount plus my webinar plus my Facebook group. All you have to do is just go on my website, click on the links there, you'll be forwarded to learn more. And if you have any questions about it, you can email me. My email is saharaet feelfresh.com I'll connect you with John, the founder himself. He is also available to answer any of your questions. He's so nice. He gives his phone number to everyone. He's like, if you want, you can text me anytime and I'll answer your questions on like, that's the kind of teacher he is. And that's the kind of teacher that we want to learn from people who are fully, fully indebted and want to give everything they can to their students. Like, this is such, such a rare thing to see these days. Someone who gives their phone number to anyone and says, text me at any time and I'll answer your questions. I'll hop on the phone with you. Like, he's, he's such an angel. And I'm really excited to share this interview with you. I learned so much about Ayurveda and I've been sitting in it for a long time. He shared me little tips on how to tell what dosha people are that I didn't even know about, which is pretty exciting. And I'm really excited for more of you to become Ayurvedic practitioners. So if you do sign up for Joyful Belly, make sure you mention me. Sahara, for your bonuses and let me know. Send me an email and I'll get in touch with you about the webinar and invite you to the Facebook group. And I'm so looking forward to getting to know you more. Without further ado, let's welcome John to the Highest Self podcast.

Welcome, John. It's so great to have you here on the Highest Self podcast.

I'm happy to be here and thank you.

So the first question that I'm going to ask you, that I ask everyone is what makes you your highest self?

Well, to answer that question, I really have to almost relate a story or really, it's a progression of things because it's not just any one thing. Really. The first step to becoming my higher self was using Ayurveda to heal my body. And that was a really good beginning. And that was perhaps the first stage. Feeling good was certainly helpful. And then once I had taken care of myself in a basic kind of way and I was living more naturally, that answer started to change a little bit and moved into Maybe even what you would say, like a second stage of living my highest self, which is really giving of myself or serving others. Not just serving my wife or the person that I love, but also my children and also my community with Ayurveda. And then I would say that on a deeper level underneath all of this is this sort of third thing that helps me live my highest self, or what makes me my highest self. And for that, it's best to tell a little story. Because I graduated and started my adult life with a math and computer degree from Harvard University. And I really, when I graduated, I thought I was on top of the world. You know, I thought I was the smartest thing going and believed I was master of my own destiny. And, of course, we all participate in our own destiny. But I was really set out to prove myself to the world. And that became, in a way, a whole worldview for me. That I was, you know, gonna be the best that I could be. That's a good thing, actually, to be the best that I could be. But, you know, I wanted to be the, you know, the smartest, most successful, attractive person out there. And I spent a lot of time meditating on how to transform myself. And I wanted others to admire me and my spiritual transformation and all that. And eventually I hit a wall with that, as everyone must. And this brings me to, really, the third answer to this question is what makes me my higher self? Which is I had to really stop thinking about how to bring attention to myself and start admiring others and really take a look at who I was, who I was trying to become and let go, to trust in something greater than me. Instead of just trying to be great. I wanted to lead people to something that was greater than me. And really, what makes me my highest self? It's such a spiritual question for me. And so it requires a spiritual answer. I've always felt that I've had this great love for God. But I never really trusted in God in my life. And so as a part of that letting go and letting go of who I thought I needed to be, I turned and trusted in something greater than myself. And that was incredibly freeing. That led to this huge transformation in my life. It was like a burden was lifted. And I suddenly found myself having way more energy. It was like when I first started studying Ayurveda and I started to feel good. It was like a whole new world to me. And this sort of third answer to your question, Sahara, is really that. That sort of letting go, knowing that there's something bigger than me? That's out there. And really my skin was just glowing after that. I was like a happier person. And other people started noticing. That was very exciting. I would answer the question then in those three ways. The Ayurveda, serving others and letting go and believing that there's something greater than me, taking care of me and helping me through my life. That's what makes me my highest self.

I love that so much. And I think for many people, listening Ayurveda has been such a great part of their journeys into becoming your highest self. So what made you transition from this kind of math, science, Harvard University educated person into really studying Ayurveda and creating joyful belly?

I get that question a lot. You graduate with a math and computer science degree and people expect your life to take a different trajectory. So I guess you could say that I was always interested in people and I was probably the last person to realize this. But I studied math because I thought math was truth. And I thought that if I understand the truth, I would understand people. And that's still true. I mean, I still think that's true, but obviously, and this was obvious to everyone, like I said but me, there's something more than math to understanding a person. A person's more dynamic than that. And there's something wonderfully non mathematical about people, right? So I realized this by the time I graduated. And so I thought to myself, oh, well, I should go into business, right? I guess if I go into business, I'll learn about people. And I did that. I started two companies in my 20s. I got several million dollars in funding for one of them during that.com kind of wave. That was a pretty amazing time actually. And after a few years I came to the conclusion, yes, I was learning a lot about people in business, but it still wasn't the fullness that it promised to be. That there was something more to people and people's hearts that business couldn't teach me. And at that point I was really at a quagmire in my life. I started searching at that time and so I quit my companies and I started traveling overseas. That was incredible. Lived in France for a while and ate the best food that you could possibly eat. And it was awesome. Then I went to and lived in North Africa for a bit. I studied Arabic. I converted to Islam while I was there. And that was really much to the chagrin of my Catholic parents. And then I went to Bangladesh for a year and I lived in Bangladesh working on a public health project with Columbia University, a wonderful project, trying to Help publish information about arsenic levels in the water there. So I was living in Bangladesh. I had studied the Bengali language for 10 years. I was pretty fluent in Bengali. I was studying Bengali folk music and all that. But I got really sick, and my experiment with Islam ended at that time because I was working with some folk musicians in the country, and there was a terrorist attack on one of the musicians I was working with. It was hugely emotional for me, and I kind of realized I was, you know, maybe even in over my head at that time. Well, anyway, between getting sick and all that had happened while I was over there. There was a lot of social unrest in the country at that time. Actually, it was really more a government thing than a religious thing when that happened. But I came back from Bangladesh really a shadow of a person. I lost 30 pounds. I was really sick. Probably had, you know, lots of different parasites. But I needed help, and I started working with. I met an herbalist who was traveling around the country and agreed to drive him around the country so that he could teach. And I would support this person, basically, and in return, I would be his apprentice. He would teach me. And he was the first person that told me about Ayurveda. And I was very skeptical when I first heard about Ayurveda, because I was a chef. I consider myself a cook. I mean, that was my art. Cooking has always been my art, even since I was very young. I love food. I've always been a foodie. So I didn't want anything to do with Ayurveda because it had a lot of. I thought at first that it had a lot of rules that would cramp my creativity or stifle my creativity in some way as a chef. Well, that kind of created a little bit of a delay in me getting interested in Ayurveda. And. And then I picked up a book about it, and I started reading it. And it wasn't long before I realized that, no, this wasn't going to stifle my creativity as a chef. It would increase my creativity as a chef. That it wasn't. That the rules of Ayurveda weren't just arbitrary rules imposed on me, but they were somehow really natural rules. Kind of like the law of gravity. You know, even if you want to fly, it would be foolish to ignore the law of gravity. That's just not a good thing to. So in that same way, I started to see Ayurveda's rules for food not as stifling, but really as liberating because they became a guide for me. That showed me how to be creative and my cooking became more delicious than ever. And also I started to feel good. After all that I had been through, traveling internationally, it was really great to start feeling good again. And so this cemented my transition to becoming an Ayurvedic practitioner. Really. There are several reasons my passion for Ayurveda became so great. One was that it was helping me. That was really great. I needed it. Two, my lifelong interest in delicious food, which Ayurveda just really improved. Three, God was always the most important thing in my life. And Ayurveda was also spiritual. Like, can you imagine that? A health system that also speaks to the soul. That was wonderful. And then the last reason was that most of the ancient texts of Ayurveda are written in a language of Sanskrit, which is very close to modern Bengali. And I just had spent 10 years studying that language. So I was really like overjoyed that I could read these ancient texts directly and start learning from the source. So my passion for Ayurveda was intense. I would wake up at 3am every day and study for six hours before going to work. And I did that until I got to the chapter on Vana Dosha and realized that I was like, not staying in a very healthy way for my body. And I paced myself a bit. So I backed off from waking up at 3am to start my studies every day. But my passion for Ayurveda has really never left. And it's given me that insight into the human person, both biologically, psychologically, and many ways spiritually, to understanding the essence of a person that has always been behind or. My deepest search in life is to know people down to their essence all the way. That's part of my commitment, even clinically. Like, I want to know my clients, you know, what makes them tick, who they are, the essence of the person in order to help them. I think that's really wonderful. And Ayurveda offers that.

I love that story. And wow, I didn't know all of that. And it truly seems like it was meant to be for you to study Ayurveda and the universe kind of of set up all of these situations to bring you to Bangladesh and study Bengali and get sick and eventually come to Ayurveda. And actually the reason I learned about Ayurveda was I also became sick in India. So it's interesting how that happens. So I would love to know about how you created Joyful Belly and what Joyful Belly is.

Yeah. Did you say how I created Joyful Belly?

Yeah. Like, what was your journey? To kind of create this online platform of Joyful Belly. And what does it consist of?

Well, it was also serendipitous. Right. You know, since you mentioned the word serendipity, I want to add one thing to the story on Ayurveda. I was reading Dr. Laude's book, the Art of Self Healing. It was while I was driving across the country. And this sounds kind of crazy, right? But I was reading the book, and it was on the front seat of the car next to me. The back cover was face up. And as I was driving, I looked on the back cover, and I saw that it was published by the Ayurvedic Press, which was in New Mexico. And I was driving across New Mexico at that very moment. Like, I was driving through Albuquerque when I saw that address on the back of the book. So I immediately got off at that exit and drove to the school, to the Ayurvedic Institute, and saw that, like, right then and there, I saw that I could learn Ayurveda. And so really, the choice to study Ayurveda came just at this moment, like that. And starting Joyful Belly was very similar. I was working with clients, and remember, I had this background in software, so I was trying to give my clients good recipes in every session that I had with my. You know, every time I meet a client, and we would go through and I would give them Ayurvedic recommendations, they would ask me, well, what about a meal plan? What should I eat now? And I really didn't have anything to offer them. And I was wondering how to figure out this problem, how to solve this issue, when I realized I could use software to help this issue, that I could use software to help people identify and match recipes to the person. And that was the initial idea for Joyful Belly. And I spent several days sort of working out the details and put together the software and the technical solution for it. And people loved it. And it became a great way to serve the Ayurveda community. Initially, it was practitioners that used Joyful Belly. But then eventually the clients started using it themselves. They would go to a practitioner, learn about their doshas from their practitioner, and then go to the Joyful Belly site, click a few buttons, and then it would show them recipes, ingredients filtered exactly for their content. Constitution. We have thousands of recipes on Joyful Belly. And so when you put in a particular Ayurvedic diagnosis, it'll match and filter recipes and ingredients to the individual. It's incredibly powerful, and it was great to be able to offer that. That's how that started. Just really out of a need.

I love that so much. And even for me, when I was writing my both of my books, it was so helpful for me because, you know, sometimes I'm like, avocado, is that sweet? Is that bitter? Like what guna does that fall under? So it was really helpful how you have not just the gunas, but like the sub qualities and just so much information about every single ingredient. Like, I can only imagine how much time that must have taken you.

Oh, yeah, yeah. And really, when I'm still to this day, when I'm in sessions with clients, I will think, okay, I need some cold ingredient that is also antimicrobial and that it is a diuretic. And you can just use Joyful Belly to zero in exactly on that. And not many people even know that they can do that on the website, but I use it all the time in that way. Just those filtering functions are. It's awesome to have them.

I love that. So can you tell us a little bit about how Ayurveda views digestion and how it's a little bit different from the Western perspective?

Yes. Ayurveda shows you how to become aware of your body. Ayurveda is a methodology for people becoming aware of their body. So that's right away very different. And then Ayurveda shows you how to interpret what you feel. It's useful to think of Ayurveda as a form of habitpathy. What is habit? Pathy. Right. It's the pathogenesis of a habit. The things that we do in our everyday life have an effect on us. And Ayurveda studies that. And Ayurveda teaches us how to experience that. And so when we notice after eating a certain food that we feel a certain way, Ayurveda gives us a system. One, to restore balance from that, and two, it shows us how our whole lifestyle, our whole habit, our whole way of being is either helping our body or hurting our body. And that's what makes Ayurveda deeply personal. When you go into Western medicine, you're dealing with, with statistics and you're dealing with populations. The hospitals think about, how do I serve the whole population of New York City, for example, with 10 million people? But Ayurveda is really personal and one to one. And so as it teaches a person that body awareness, it's like they become alive and they start doing Ayurveda moment to moment. There's never a time or a moment when I'm not doing Ayurveda. Sometimes I like to think of Ayurveda. You know, when you're learning it, it can sound really complicated, but in the end it becomes so natural because Ayurveda is natural. It's kind of like when you're cold, you put on a sweater and you don't really think about putting on a sweater, you just do it. It's just a natural way to keep yourself comfortable. And Ayurveda expands that simple knowledge of temperature to many other categories so that we can easily food in the same way. I don't think a lot about doing Ayurveda. I just do it. I choose food with certain qualities that are well suited to my body. So that's what makes Ayurveda so different, is how personal it is, how it gives everyday people, not just professionals, now, not just the Ayurveda practitioners, but everyday people, an understanding of their bodies. And that technique is especially powerful when applied to digestive tract disorder. Why? Because one of the main things we do is eat. In terms of just one of the main ways we interact with the environment is we eat things in the environment. We eat food. And when we bring that food into our bodies, it touches our digestive organs directly. And so that science of Ayurveda and that art of Ayurveda, I believe and would venture to say that really Ayurveda is the most powerful way to transform digestive health out there because of this highly personalized moment to moment awareness that it is gives.

I love that. And it's so true how, you know, Ayurveda is the knowledge of life. And we don't think of digestion in the Western world as this interconnected process that's always going on. We think of it as a very like, acute thing that just happens in your stomach. And I love how you mentioned how Ayurveda is. You're always digesting. You know, it's a constant life process. And then that's such a profound way to look at digestion.

Yes.

So I'd love to know tips from you of what we can do to rev up our digestive fire.

Okay. All right, great. Well, I'm going to start this right from the foundation up. The first thing is pay attention to how you feel after you eat and look for those early warning signs. What are your main early warning signs? If you feel really tired after you eat, then you know, either there was a food that you ate that disagrees with you or the portion of there was maybe too large of A portion for your agni, for your digestive strength, your digestive power. Look at your tongue twice a day in the morning and before you go to bed and just start to notice. You know, you could study your tongue, but really just looking at your tongue, you'll start to see how your tongue changes on a day to day basis. Look at your poop before you flush it. You know, maybe that's TMI for some people, but in Ayurveda it's essential. Don't flush the evidence of your digestion, right? Take a look. Look and see what's going on in your body, the input and the output. Next thing, learn about which foods are easy and which foods are hard to digest, right? This is so simple. We have to always remember not to overlook the obvious. On Joyful Belly, in the ingredients section, click on the gunas. There's a guna called easy. On Joyful Belly, a guna called difficult. Guna just means quality. So we're looking for foods that have an easy quality about them or a difficult quality about them. That's going to identify for you the foods that are easy and difficult to digest. That's going to take the burden off your system if you focus on those easy to digest foods. If you're having a digestive issue, then eat in a relaxed manner. Chew thoroughly, make sure you're well hydrated before the meal. Don't sit down to a meal unless your mouth is watery and juicy. If your mouth isn't watery and juicy, have a glass of warm water with a wedge of lime, pinch of Salt, wait about 10 minutes and that's going to that hydration, that juicy mouth is the sign that your salivary glands have extra fluids to release. And that means your stomach has extra fluids to release and your pancreas and all your digestive organs are going to be able to pump out those enzymes to digest your food. And then finally, spices. Now a lot of times if you ask of an Ayurveda person this question, they're going to lead with spices, right? They're going to say spices are the first, the first thing to improving your digestive fire. I'm mentioning it last specifically because we got to build that foundation. And then spices are really the icing on the cake. What do spices do? What spices do is their pungency and sharpness increases blood flow to the digestive tract directly. So if our foundation is good and we still need to rev things up, we want to pull blood to the digestive tract. We do that with these spices. Now, not only these Spices wonderfully flavorful, increase the sensuality of the food and the enjoyment of eating and also a sense of adventure. Right. Some spices are a little exotic, so it gives us that sense of adventure in our food. But because it increases the blood flow, it improves our digestive performance. But I have to put a caveat. If you have inflammation in your digestive tract, if you have a pitta imbalance, pitta is one of the body types in Ayurveda. If your pitta dosha is aggravated, then you have to be careful with the spices you need. Then if you're going to use any spices at all, they to be something like cilantro, fennel, cardamom, the spices that aren't going to provoke inflammation and aggravate pitta. Of course, the list goes on. We have a whole course on digestion. That's a 500 hour course. So you can imagine we can continue talking an additional 500 hours to answer.

This question for sure. I'd love to know just your opinion on intermittent fasting because that's such a big trend going on right now. So what would the Ayurveda approach be?

Well, we often, I think that people get easily, maybe it's too strong a word to say hoodwinked or whatever, or it's not that other people are hoodwinking them, but kind of we think that if we do something really intense, it's going to help us. If we run to the top of the mountain or, you know, do the triathlon or whatever, that that's what's going to happen, propel us to the next level. And fasting, you know, comes from that same mindset of if it's really intense and I do it, I'm gonna be better at the end. And that is just not Ayurveda's way of doing things. Ayurveda is always very gentle. I think of Ayurveda as almost like affectionate and grandmotherly. Sometimes I think that's a good way to think about Ayurveda, actually. So, you know, would your affectionate grandma recommend intermittent fasting? Well, the answer to that question is it really depends. What is the nature of that fast? Are you eating absolutely nothing for a whole day or are you just skipping a meal? Are you eating lightly for a day or not? What Ayurveda would say is tailor it to the person. There are some people that may be able to get breakfast and dinner and just have lunch for a day or, you know, that's me, more like a kapha person. Right. They tend to have that more resilience, a kapha body type. But vata body type people, they to tend, tend to be very deficient. And so if they were going to, if I was going to design a fast for a vata person, I would give them a bowl of rice with some ghee and some salt and plenty of fluids and maybe even a small, easy to digest protein source just so that I'm not aggravating that depletion. I'm giving their body a chance to clean and detoxify without creating that deficiency.

I love that. And what would you recommend for someone? I get this question all the time. If you're a vata kapha or kapha vata, you have both.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It sounds more. Remember this, sometimes the theory makes things harder and sometimes the theory makes things easier. When you have a person that has kapha and vata out of balance 99% of the time, the solution is treat kapha in the body and vata in the lifestyle. So it means don't over schedule yourself. In fact, the typical case for vata kapha is a person who is over scheduled, very scattered, lots of things going on all the time and they're eating a lot of food just because they're so anxious and stressed out. So this is a perfect example of pasifa vata in the lifestyle and kapha in the diet. So reduce some of the stress in your life and then that's the lifestyle and foods that are going to pacify kapha or help with a lighter diet. Usually that does the trick. There are a few variants of that, but that's the general idea.

Got it. And what about someone who is a.

Vata pitta vata pitta. Well I'm Pitta Vata. So this kind of vata pitta pitta vata constitution is very, you know, close to home for me. And a lot of the recipes on Joyful Belly are sort of tailored towards that constitution simply because that's my constitution. And so what's a good strategy with vata and pitta being out of balance? What typically happens is that the pitta ambition drives the vata deficiency to an extreme. And let's go back just to our earlier talk. When I first learned about Ayurveda, when I first got passionate about Ayurveda, I was waking up at 3am in the morning and studying for six hours before work. Right. Clearly my pitta was pushing my vata into an extreme state of deficiency with that. So that's typically what happens. What we need to do then similar to the kapha vata situation is we're going to treat vata in the lifestyle and pitta in the psychology. In fact, this is a general paradigm. You treat kapha in the body, pitta in the psychology, vata in the lifestyle is a good rule of thumb. In general, of course, you treat all, on all levels, physically, mentally and spiritually. But for this pitta vata type, you're going to address the ambition first, which often comes down to the pitta person thinking they need to be perfect or they're going to be a failure. So that's, you know, you have to give them hope. If you give a pitta person hope, they will calm down. And then the vata person, you just have to get them to establish some good boundaries in their schedule so that they're resting and relaxing and that does the trick.

Love that. And then what about pitta kapha kapha.

Pitta pitta kapha is the most stubborn. Like wonderfully stubborn. Like, I love the hardiness and strength and, and almost like the bull in the china shop constitution, I love it. It's such a great constitution, a real stable constitution. So with that constitution you always have to worry about liver congestion. They tend to have a buildup of oil in the liver. The gallbladder can easily become stagnant and that's what makes them more of a bull than could be desirable in certain circumstances. So what you want to do with that constitution is the same thing that you want to do before that congestion gets to the point where the pita kaffa person becomes frustrated, angry and starts breaking the delicate chinaware. You want to do what you do in the Swiss Alps, right? If there's a heavy snowfall, they shoot a little stick of dynamite up in the snow and it explodes and then the avalanche comes down before it kills somebody. Right? So with the pittacampa constitution, it's very similar. What you want to do is give them strong bitters on a regular basis. And what that causes is it drains the liver and gallbladder system of that avalanche of oil, that congested oil that's in their constitution and it relieves their frustration, it lightens them up, it gives them lots of energy. Suddenly they feel rejuvenated. So that pitta kappa diet is going to look like lots of bitters. They're the ones that can do that raw food diet. Sometimes you see that raw food diet over promoted and it can hurt a vata person, it can even hurt a pitta person. But these pitta cough individuals, they do really well with that raw Food diet. You want to minimize red meat in that diet too because they tend to have an overabundance of ructa, the red part of the blood. And so you want to reduce. You want to avoid blood building food and increase bitters to relieve the liver gallbladder system.

Love that. Yeah. When you were saying that, I was imagining like a football player or someone very pitta kapha.

Yes.

Yeah. That's such great suggestions. And I know everyone has a different opinion on this, but do you recommend treating the prakriti or the vikrati?

Okay, I never treat prakriti, I always treat vikrati. But.

And for people who don't know, procrita is your natural born constitution and viktruti is the one that you have right now.

Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I treat imbalances. Right. There's a sense in Ayurveda that we are born with a certain nature. And this really ties in wonderfully with the spiritual side of things. Actually, our prakruti is our nature. Our prakriti is the nature that we were given. It's almost as if God has given each of us a purpose to live out. Each of us in essence, the essence of who we are. The essence of your spirit, your soul. Right. That's somehow given to us. And it's not just given to us, but it's also something wonderful, right. That like our nature is something wonderful. And yes, we need to figure out how to deal with it too. Right. Because sometimes the blessing can be a curse and the curse can be a blessing. Right. We've got to reconcile it, we've got to work with it a little bit, you know, but we don't ever throw the baby out with the bathwater. And I love that saying. Our property is our nature, it is our essence. And it's intimately tied in with our purpose given to us by our creator. So it's just a sign that we are loved, our procridy. And so I never treat prakrity. I think of procreaty as just a wonderful thing. But what happens is, and this happens to all of us is we doubt our procrity. Let me give a personal example here. I was, you know, like I said, I graduated from Harvard, a great school, intense school, with a computer science and math degree. And so, you know, I had some skills in that area, right. I had some gifts in that area. Well, what did I do instead of just relying on those gifts? I wanted to like do it even more, right. So I would like play chess all the Time I would play like these intense intellectual games. And really what I was doing was I was frying my nervous system because I was doubting my nature. Instead, what I had to learn to do, and this made me so much more successful as a person. I had to step back and say, you know what? God gave me this wonderful academic ability, this wonderful academic skill. I'm not going to doubt it. What I should do instead is rest on it, let that just be there and focus on other areas where I may have certain weaknesses as a person. And I was extraordinarily successful for me doing that. And so really the reason why we become imbalanced so often, like the way I became imbalanced is we doubt ourselves, we doubt our nature, we doubt our essence, and we start to push. And in that pushing, we create all kinds of problems. And that's vikraty the current imbalance. That's what I focus on when I'm working with clients.

I love that. Yeah. I mean, I think it's so relatable. Like, for me, I had a lot of confidence kapha in my prakriti. So I was like, oh, I want to be like fit and fast and move and, you know, became a raw vegan and a competitive dancer and like always doing things because I was like, I don't want to be like, slow. I don't want to be like the patient grandma, you know, and then that created like such a vata imbalance. But still, probably kapha is the one I kind of least relate to, even though I have like such a kapha looking face. But just I've kind of like moved far away from that. But knowing that part of my natural gift is to, like, listen and, you know, be attentive and patient and things like that. Yeah, Love it.

Our prakriti, our nature is always in the background. So I'm always mindful of it, you know, and you probably are too. You know, you're probably mindful of your kapha, just like I'm mindful of my pits all the time. Right.

Mm. And do you think that we should be trying to get our vikrati to come back to our Prakriti? Because some people have this perspective.

I do. Yeah, I do. I think that we are. That's what self realization it really means, right. This idea that we are called to a certain purpose, to a certain nature, to live out a certain destiny, maybe in a way in essence of who we are. And once we get past all of the masks, we get back to our true innocence. That True, wonderfully vulnerable, raw place that we can offer ourselves fully. You know, we can offer ourselves fully there. I remember how I was when I was three or four years old, you know, that kind of the real, true gift that I had to offer the world. I can remember feeling them even as early as that. And you better believe I'm trying to get back to that, because there's something very pure. Pure and wonderfully unselfish and generous about that. So, yeah, I think that we should take that imbalance and sort of try to figure out our true nature, our true calling, our true purpose.

Love that. Yeah. I teach a course called Doshas and Dharma, and it's all about how your dharma is related to your doshas. It's so. It's like. I love this topic so much.

Yeah.

So I'd love to know, how do you teach your students to kind of look out for people's doshas and address their digestion? Because, you know, teaching students is such a big part of what Joyful Belly does.

Yes, it's a big part of what Ayurveda is. In Ayurveda, we are teachers, so we don't treat our clients. Our clients treat our clients, and we teach them how. That's one of the things that is so unique about Ayurveda, is that everyone who does Ayurveda or practices it professionally has to be a great teacher. So now your question is, what is the main things that I taught my students to look out for in terms of assessing someone's dosha? Was that your question?

Yeah.

Ah, okay. All right. Well, there are a few things that are always a sign of dosha, like the hip bones. Your hip bones are. They don't change through time. Right. If you were born a kapha person or a vata person or a pitta person, your hip bones are going to reflect that, and they're not going to change based on the current moment. You could have some drastic thing happen in your life. It's not going to change the size and shape of your hip bones. Right. So on the. On this kind of very base level, there are certain parts of the body that don't easily change with time, and the hip bones are one of them.

What are the shapes of the hip bones?

Yeah. So a kapha person is going to have a more heavier, sturdier, and wider hip bone. A vata person, which vata tends towards deficiency, is going to have very narrow, more thin bones structure in general. And pitta is going to be in between that. For the. The lips are another One, the lips, the shape of the lips don't really change through life. So kapha people tend to have luxurious large lips. Vata individuals tend to have more thin, wispy lips. Pitta, again, is sort of between the two. That's not really going to change over time. So yeah, width of the shoulders, the size of the head, all that's not going to change. But you know, I frequently get clients where their head almost looks like a little too big for the rest of their body or their shoulders are wide, but they seem like otherwise to have a lot of vata characteristics being maybe underweight or so. And when I see that, I know it's a kapha person that is really, it's a Kapha person underneath that has really rejected their kapha ness. Right. That they really tried to become something that they're not. And you could see, after a while you start to develop an eye and you could see like, oh, this person's constitution is really different than what I see right now. The corresponding one for vata is vata person that's really overweight. And you see that the weight is not well distributed around their body. Almost seems to be like more flabbiness than weight itself. Now a Kapha person, when they gain weight, it's really, it can be like a beautiful thing, right? That there's, that they have this, it's well distributed. It's like a sign of their health. And we've all seen examples of that in cultures around the world where this sort of like large, beautiful, hearty kind of individual, like you said, those football players and all that. Right.

I'm thinking like the Kim Kardashian type body.

Kim Kardashian, she's a kind of thin or.

No, she's more like curvy, luxurious, like I would say she has the Kapha body.

Okay, yeah. So that, yeah, that curviness and all that, it's, you know, that has of course been praised in many cultures throughout history and Ayurveda certainly praises that as well. And so on the opposite side, the vata individuals, when they have that extra weight, it doesn't seem natural to them. It seems almost like it doesn't belong there. And then, you know, you're dealing with a vata person that has a kapha imbalance. And so, yeah, you start to see these signs over, over time.

Right. And I feel like a lot of vatas, their weight gain is all around the waist because it's so like adrenal and stress related.

Yes, yes.

And like Kaphas have more like hips and thighs because they're just so earthy and grounded.

Yep.

Yeah. Yeah, I love that. So can you tell us a little bit more about what studying at Joyful Belly is like?

Yes, Yes, I can. Well, because our programs are all online distance learning, we get to reach out to this real fascinating student body. You know, there's individuals like, all around the country, all around the world. It's always incredible to see who signs up for our programs and even to the website in general. I just remember one day getting someone who just happened on the Joyful Belly website from a country in Sub Saharan Africa and they called and they're like, my, you know, my. And could hardly speak English and was telling me their. Their child was throwing up and they just didn't know who to reach out to. And I was like, well, how did you find me? It was amazing. Anyway, so the online distance learning aspect of our programs allow for a lot of flexibility for the people who take our programs. Oftentimes our students are professionals or parents and have just very busy lives, and so they need that flexibility. I'd also say that studying at Joyful Belly is very dynamic. We expect a lot out of our students, and we certainly believe that each, each and every student is called to greatness. And Ayurveda is great. And so we have to. We want to show that to the world. We want to show how awesome and wonderful Ayurveda is to our whole. To the public, to our whole society. And so our students are the vehicle for that. So we expect a lot out of our students. We want every student to achieve that potential that they were made for. So we don't make our programs easy. They're flexible. Our programs are flexible because of that online distance learning aspect. But also they're demanding and they're worth it. You're going to get a lot out of it. It's going to be a wild ride for folks. Ayurveda itself is such a whole new way of thinking. It's such a paradigm shift. We're proud to initiate people into that, you know, new way of approaching the world, really, not just the body, but the whole world.

I love that. And can you tell us a little bit about what the two programs you offer are?

Yes. Okay, so we have a 750 hour Ayurveda health counselor program called the Fundamentals of Natural Healing. And that program is designed so that when you graduate, you get a true sort of. Of breadth of knowledge that you need for approaching health holistically. Now there's a Lot of natural systems of healing that claim to be holistic, but they don't really offer a whole model of the body and an approach that is holistic. You know, just using an herb to replace a pharmaceutical is not holistic. It's a pill. It's a natural pill. And that's wonderful. I love natural pills. But even greater than that is a thorough understanding of the principles of natural healing and the holistic approach to the body. So the fundamentals of natural healing Ayurveda Health Counselor program gives you all of the theory of Ayurveda, all of the concepts, and then how to apply them. The program meets industry standard criteria for certification in the general practice of Ayurveda as an Ayurveda health counselor. And on top of that, the industry standard for that program is that it's a 600 hour program. We've added an extra 150 hours on it just because it's rich. And it is something that we need to roll up our sleeves and jump into in an immersion kind of way. So that's what that program offers. Then our second program is the 500 Hour Mastering Ayurveda Digestion and Nutrition program. And that program covers digestion in much greater depth. You get digestion in both programs, but in the first program we have to give you a basic understanding of all the body. While in the Mastering Ayurveda Digestion Nutrition program, it really is about just digestion. You're not going to learn about asthma in that program or other parts of the body. We're going to go really deep into the area of digestion. Now when I meet with a client who has asthma, I can help them maybe two or three sessions and then I'm going to refer them to someone who really knows asthma. But when I get a client in digestion, I could meet with them every week for two years and never run out of wonderful things to offer them to improve their digestion. And so the level of depth that you'll get in that program, indigestion, an Ayurvedic approach to nutrition, is such that even a gastroenterologist would learn tons from attending that program. And we do have medical doctors that take that program. We have Ayurvedic practitioners that take that course. And the course is geared for professionals. In fact, in that program, to be eligible for the program, you know, you have to have some prior training in a healthcare related field, which could be anything from massage therapy to yoga or psychology even, or you have to have a digestive problem yourself or. And this is a, this last aura is a bit of a. It's a caveat. You have to show us that you have a serious prior commitment to the study of natural health. And I've asked people to send me a photo of their library and then, you know, I see the books in their library. I'll ask them a few questions about those books. And I'm like, yeah, you really want this. You're really enthusiastic about natural health will let you get in the program. The student body in that program is there's such an amazing group every year. It's really wonderful. So yeah, Those are the two programs. The 500 program does not cover the full breadth of the whole body or even all of Ayurveda. That's what the Fundamentals of Natural Healing course is for. In the Mastering Ayurveda Digestion and Nutrition. We only covered those parts of Ayurveda that are necessary for you to have this incredible understanding of Ayurveda digestion and nutrition.

Got it. So the digestion one would be good for someone who maybe has a nutrition background. They're a health coach, they really want to focus with like digestion and nutrition. And then the fundamentals would be good for someone who wants to be a general Ayurvedic counselor.

Yeah, yeah. Although I would say that we get a lot of people who aren't nutrition in the Mastering Ayurveda Digestion Nutrition program. Like we'll get massage therapists or yoga teachers that have never done anything with nutrition before coming into that program. We don't ask that they have a prior background in nutrition, just that they're committed to health in some way.

Got it. Love it. So how is the program set up? Are there any live calls? Is it self paced? How do people do it?

Okay. The Fundamentals of Natural Healing program is at your own pace. It's a two to three year program. You can opt into a fourth year if you really need it. We can discuss those kinds of particulars later on. But yeah, that program is at your own pace. We have weekly live coaching calls so that anytime you have questions, you're not going to be sitting on a huge question for too long. But we designed the program that way that it would have maximum flexibility. In year two, there'll be more requirements for you to attend clinical for clinical mentoring and supervision, which is part of the industry standard certification criteria, but also just absolutely necessary right in the beginning when you're meeting clients, you want that supervision. So there's a lot of interaction at that point as well. In the 500 hour program, we meet three times a week as a class, online, online, together. And we. So here's how that works. We give people two pre recorded presentations each week, week and a body awareness or food experiment, which actually both classes have a weekly body experiment and body awareness and food experiment because that's so essential to the practice of Ayurveda. But we'll meet then in the master's program. You get those two presentations and the exercises. Then we meet three times a week to discuss them. We get students from all around the world. So there's no time zone that fits into every student's schedule. So typically if a student can't make one of those live calls, they'll listen to a recorded session. We know people have busy lives, they have vacations, they have families, they have professional goals while they're in the program, all these things. There's a lot of flexibility, like I said in the programs. So they just listen to the recordings. If they can't make those live calls.

Love it. And when you say clinic, does it have to be like at a certain clinic or they find one nearby that.

Oh no, we do it online together.

Okay. So the clinic requirements also online.

Everything is online. There's no travel required in the program. And that's why people can take it. You know, we have students that they start the program and they're living in Minnesota, but then midway they move to Germany and they're still in the program, you know, and, and that's just the way life goes, you know, I love that.

So what do graduates of both programs typically do after graduating, after grad?

There's a number of different options for students after graduating. The first one that so many people do is they go into a private clinic. There's something about the body that particularly catches their attention. Not just Ayurveda, but perhaps like for me it was digestion and I got really into digestion. So I know Ayurveda and not just the theory of Ayurveda, but I have this passion for the digestive tract as well. And when you have that, clients are really going to see you as a solution to their problem. Right. That's when you start getting clients. Right. It's important to have that specialized interest. Right. So you graduate from the Fundamentals of Natural Healing program, you're like, I want to get involved in sleep therapy or skin and beauty care. And then you just apply your enthusiasm and passion to that and your clients will love you. So a private clinic is one way. Then some people will go to will write books or become an educator. Sahara, like you, I mean, that's what you do. And really, that's what I do too. I do it on the web. But there's just. We're educators and we might decide to start a program where we educate people in the technology industry. I mentioned that because I was a technology and I could talk about this for a while, but I would love to go into software companies and tell these programmers how to live a healthy life. And I know that companies want their employees to be healthy. So you could set up some kind of program like that with people, and that would be very dynamic, very exciting. Some people go on to create herbal products. We have students that work on as a celebrity yacht chef. And so she used Ayurveda to enhance her creativity in the kitchen, in addition to helping cook for 200 people. And, you know, people would love her food and also feel great afterwards. There's just so many ways to apply it. Shweta One of the students that graduated from our program went on to help develop policy at a local hospital. One of our graduates used Ayurveda in the mental health industry to help children with autism. So there's just lots of options. Working with yoga studios, working with acupuncturists or chiropractors, working with a medical doctor. There's just so many options for a career in Ayurveda, especially for people who, like I said, they have an. They take an interest in a particular part of the body. Nobody wakes up in the morning and says, I need Ayurveda. They wake up in the morning and they say, I need my stomach problem fixed. But we, we love Ayurveda. I, us, as the students, as the Ayurveda practitioners, we love Ayurveda. And so we think that our client wakes up in the morning and says, oh, what I need today is Ayurveda. No, what our client needs is a solution to their particular problem. So as soon as we start offering that solution, then clients are incredibly happy and our business thrives.

Totally. Yes, I love that. And I think it's so important to see that as an Ayurvedic counselor or coach. There's so many things you could go into. It's like, really the world is your oyster and Ayurveda is, you know, it's ancient, but it's also so up and coming. And I really feel like it's like the next wave of wellness as people are craving just a more integral and like, tried and true method to health. And they're sick of these fad diets and they want something that's worked and stood past the test of time. Yeah, yeah, absolutely amazing. Well, we are also offering $1,000 off discount account for all highest self podcast listeners which is super exciting. And I'm also going to be offering some freebies. One of those is going to be my webinar all about how to create a thriving business as an Ayurvedic counselor. So I'll be speaking about the kind of more business stuff of nailing that client and maybe building your social media following and explaining what you do to people because a lot of people don't know what Ayurveda is. Maybe this is even your first time hearing about Ayurveda. But you love what John's talk talking about. You loved my book and you want to do it. So I'll be answering your questions live on that webinar and giving you support. Also creating a Facebook mentorship group where you can talk to other members of the Mind Body Balancers community who are in one of the Joyful Belly programs and also ask me questions throughout your program for anything branding or marketing related. And I'm here to answer. So I have more information on that on my website. If you go on I iamsaharrose.com you'll see it says become an Ayurvedic counselor. You can click on that and when you sign up for one of the Joyful Belly programs, just let them know that Sahara mentioned you and you'll get the discount and the freebies. So I'm really excited. Is there anything else that you want listeners to take away from this interview? John?

Well, yeah, I would say this, that when you first approach Ayurveda, you might see a bunch of words that, that seem foreign in a way or seem new. Like these words, vada, pitta, kapha that we've been talking about on the call. And you may wonder like, is this something for me, is this something that I can do? Is this something realistic? And to that I'm going to say that there's something very practical, very simple about Ayurveda. It's often passed off as a kind of mystical thing that Ayurveda is somehow otherworldly. What Ayurveda is, is an incredibly simple, practical, yet profound system of healing. And at Joyful Belly, we've always, since day one, taken this approach of translating Ayurveda and making it accessible to everyone, to our parents, to our friends that we grew up with in high school who may never know the Word, vada, pita, kapha. But in our programs we're going to show you how to help those people and you just really practical nuts and bolts ways. It's really amazing once you get into it and I promise that even if you feel daunted by it, that you will quickly come to see that yeah, this really is something that everyone can do.

Totally, absolutely. And for all of us, you know, these words began as foreign strange words and it was just our curiosity that made us learn more and more about them. And now they are sort of like the lens that we look at light and we see situations and people and foods and places all in the language of the doshas. So it's like opening up a whole new world of possibilities for you.

Yeah.

Well, thank you so much for sharing your stories and your wisdom and how to tell our doshas from our hips. That's one I didn't know about before. I love that. And for really just inspiring us all to become our highest selves. We really acknowledge you in and appreciate you so much for putting Joyful Belly together and can't wait to learn more from you and have you again on the highest self podcast.

Well, thank you for for having me. It's been great to talk with you and to share with your audience.

Thank you. Wow.

What an amazing guy. I just love him so much. Such good vibes. You can just tell how genuine and how much he cares about his students and just teaching people about Ayurveda. I loved hearing about his story. So if you want to sign up for either of the Joyful Belly programs, be sure to learn more on my website. Go on his website. They have tons of information. And again we're offering the thousand dollar off scholarship plus my webinar and Facebook group. All you have to do is mention that you were referred from Sahara Rose and you can email me with any questions you have. I can connect you with directly with John. He's so nice and will answer any of your questions, hop on the phone with you whatever you you need. And I feel so honored and privileged to even just be part of this Ayurveda movement. We are truly the generation that is going to undo the damage that has been done by the older generations. And I feel so much hope and just so much positivity when I see how many of you want to help. You want to study these ancient healing arts that to be honest, so so many times on this journey I thought no one else is interested, no one else cares. I'm like the weird one out. And since My books come out. I've seen so many of you who are also so passionate about healing yourselves and eventually healing others with these ancient techniques. And it makes me feel so inspired and supported and privileged to just be part of. Of this generation and part of this community. And if you're spending your free time listening to this, like, God bless you, you are such a healer and you are such a light. So thank you for saying yes to that inner voice within you, that saying, there's something more to this life and there's something more to health. And there are ways to heal our bodies that we haven't explored before. So I just want to acknowledge you so much for being here and anything I can do to support your path, to support your journey, please let me know. The world needs more Ayurvedic healers. We need more people who know about this knowledge. I can't do it alone, John. Can't do it alone. We need you. We need you out there. We need you teaching. We need you to bring this wisdom into the places where they've never seen the light of day. The hospitals, the doctors offices, the emergency rooms. We need to bring Ayurveda into all of these places so it can become the norm. I mean, look at even acupuncture and Chinese medicine. It's become normal now. Health insurance covers it now. So if we all rise up as Ayurvedic counselors, practitioners, digestive coaches, anything in the field, we will normalize Ayurveda. It will be covered by all insurances and it will become the standard way of healing the body body the way that it was meant to be. So thank you so much for tuning in. And if you have any questions, email me. And I look forward to getting in touch with you soon. Namaste.

Ram.