084: How To Meditate (and Stick With it) with Shannon Algeo

Namaste, it's Sahara Rose. And welcome back to the Highest Self podcast, a place where we discuss what makes you your soul's highest development. I had the most fun conversation with my friend Shannon Algeo. He's the host of the Soul Feed podcast, an international yoga teacher and an incredible meditation expert. In this episode, he really breaks down how to meditate because a lot of people ask me all the time, how do I meditate? So he makes it really clear, what kind of steps can you take? How can you set up the environment to get in a meditative state? And we also discuss how there are so many different types of meditation and I like to do more dance meditations and shamanic meditations and some people like really still meditation. So this is a wonderful conversation about what meditation can really mean and how important is for spirituality and just activism to really line up together to create global change. But first, a note from our incredible sponsor, uvaida. Uvaida is an organically grown, family owned, plant based ayurvedic supplement company. I love them so much because they focus on specific issues. I've been taking their mood formula every day for the past few months and it's really helps me with my adrenal fatigue. It also helps ease anxiety, depression, stress, brain fog, anything. It actually works with your neurotransmitters in a natural way so you're able to be more alert and also sleep better. I highly recommend checking them out. You can get it@uveda.com with the coupon code SAHARA for 35 off your order. Again, Uveda, Y-O-U-V-E-A.com with the coupon code Sahara and you'll receive 35 off your order. Get the mood. And now, without further ado, let's invite our guest, Shannon Algeo to the Highest Self podcast.

Welcome, Shannon. Thank you so much for coming on the Highest Self podcast.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here and to be talking to you.

Yeah, it's so exciting. We found out we both live in LA for some reason. I thought you lived in New York. So we'll have to get together in person soon.

I know. Hello to all our fellow Angelenos out there and beyond.

Yes. So the first question that I'm going to ask you, that I ask everyone, is what makes you your highest self?

My first response to that is, I am my highest self. I think that I like, I am my highest self. Like they're one and the same. And I think there's noise that can cloud and confuse and get in the way of me being in alignment with my highest self. But, like, if we're talking about what makes me my highest self, like, I just. I am. And I think that all of us are. This is not something unique to me and that we all have that fundamental goodness that's just, like, a part of who we are. And we are, like, at our core, we're good. And I think, you know, if you're talking about, like, what, like, what makes me my highest self, there are some things more than others that help me tune into my highest self. And one of those things is meditation. Just like sitting and being with myself and practices of self love, which are not. It's almost like I can't tell you exactly what they are because, like, I could do a practice and do it in an aggressive way. So it's more like the energy that I bring to my actions and the intentions that I bring allow me to be sweet and gentle with myself. And that's my highest self. Like, when I'm being gentle, when I'm being loving, when I'm being mindful, and when I'm really here, that's when I feel high in that way.

I love that. And you're actually the first person who's ever answered saying that you already are your highest self. So that's amazing. And it's a great reminder for all of us that, like, we're already there.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like, I'm really curious about this. Like, what would happen if we were. If we really believed and tapped into being already there.

Totally.

What if we just did the end results instead of, like, having to work and fight and prove and seek? Like, what if we just got there and said, you know what? I'm my highest self right now?

Yeah, I think we want to. I think it's just society that's getting in the way. I mean, just the pressures and the financial burden, and it just is a constant reminder that you're not there. So I think, like, if we were all just, like, left alone, like, to live in nature, we wouldn't even have the same angst to get somewhere.

It's so. It's so true. It's so true. And I was just talking to someone about this today is that, you know, we live in this capitalist culture that uses scarcity. You literally study marketing and it's just, like, thrown around like it's no big deal. Oh, we'll use scarcity here.

Yeah, I know.

It's like, it's like, yeah, like that's the system we're in, like, where scarcity is actually a good thing, a tool for some people in order to activate that part of ourselves that believes that we're not enough and therefore consumes. And I mean, I'm not against capitalism. I like things and I like paying for things and I feel good about supporting people and good products with money. But I think that that's different than me fundamentally believing I'm not enough and therefore have to get something or buy something or do something to change who I am, so then I'll be enough. And yeah, it's countercultural and it's a conversation I'm excited to continue to have with myself and with people like you, Sahar. Cause it's an important, important reminder.

Yeah. And I actually wrote this down as like one of the questions that I wanted to ask you, but like how you had a podcast episode about aligning with abundance. So how do you cultivate that positive relationship with finances as a spiritual and meditation teacher? Mm.

So, I mean, it's a practice and it's a journey and it's really looking at and having the willingness and the courage to look at what are my intentions? I mean, so the reality is that we all need to survive. And money is a means through which we exchange energy to pay our rent or our mortgage, to buy food, to invest in our well being and buy clothing and shelter and all the things. So we want to take actions, to have our basic needs met so that we can survive and thrive. And so that's very real. That's a very real human desire and experience to just like, to survive. And at the same time, when we're doing work or if any of your listeners are listening and are in the work of healing and coaching and teaching meditation and mindfulness practices, it's important that we have a relationship with ourselves where we're tuning into what is my motivation here. It's okay to want money. It's okay to identify that you want a specific amount of money and clarify what that amount of money would mean for you. But if it becomes all about the money and all about the getting, then we're really kind of tuned in and tapped into that consumerism culture of I need to get more. I need to get more money so that I can feel like I'm okay. So that I can feel like I'm enough. Well, maybe with, you know, maybe I am okay. Maybe I am enough. And there's a desire to bring in more money and more resources. And the question becomes for what if you want to get rich, for what, like, what is your purpose and what are you going to use those resources for? I personally believe that with large sums of money coming into your bank account, into your energy field, there's a great responsibility. And so I think journaling and writing and sharing your intentions around attracting that kind of money in for your work are important so that we can hold ourselves accountable to how we're using that energy. Because that's what it is, it's energy. So for me, I want to expand my business because I want to build a team. So that means that I want to support others and help them make their living through the work that we're doing together. And so it's not just about me getting money, but it's about actually the money that I receive allows others to receive support and to survive and to thrive as well. So that's been a big shift for me as an entrepreneur like that the money that quote unquote, my business or my purpose can make can actually be bigger than me.

Totally. And I think it's like a huge shift when you become from going a solo entrepreneur to hiring other people. And it's actually the most amazing feeling ever to be able to pay someone what they're worth for service.

So absolutely, yes, it feels good. Like when you get over the fear that we have sometimes, you know, it's so interesting to check in with like how I feel when I'm paying for a service. Cause sometimes that feeling of guilt or fear like, oh my God, can I really afford this? Like, comes up and it's like a tightening, it's an anxiety and to shift into. I have the resources to support this person and their work. And I trust that my giving will become my receiving. That by letting these funds go to that person, someone else is gon come around and give me funds to keep me going. That like, actually keeping that flow in motion is a huge, I think, secret to success. Sometimes, like leave the extra tip, even if you're scared about it, like pay for the thing sometimes it's like that can accelerate this cyclical nature of abundance, the law of reciprocity.

Oh my gosh, it's so true. And like, for me, as soon as I started, like creating an income, what I'm doing, I set up in my business like $100 a that I have on my website. And it's like everyone can join and add more, but I'll definitely give $100 a month to a different organization. And it's just such an amazing way of being like. And as obviously as my business grows, that number will increase. So I think it's just so important for everyone to have some sort of giving model ingrained in their business.

I love that. I love that it's so important. It's beautiful and it sends a message to the world, but also it sends a message to yourself that, like, there is more than enough that I am not attached to this money and that I can give it and trust it'll come back. And sometimes it's like, it's interesting. I really have adopted this philosophy recently and I'm trying to remember where this came from. I think it's probably from Jen Sincero's, you are a badass at making money. But this idea that the universe doesn't care about the amount. So if I'm being greedy or stingy or holding back that dollar that I could tip or that I feel like I want to tip, the universe is going to hear the same message that I'm holding on.

Yes.

So it's like, same goes for when I receive money. If I'm not satisfied with the amount that I'm receiving, the universe is listening to that. So I'm in the practice of like, no matter what the check says or no matter what the payment says, I'm like, dude, money's coming in. It doesn't matter the amount it's coming in. The gratitude is the same Exactly.

Every time money comes in, if it's just like an email, I say thank you, thank you to that person. It's like, wherever you are, like, you gave your trust in me, you've invested in what I teach and like, whatever it is. And I see what you mentioned with the, the kind of stinginess, it doesn't matter the amount. Like, I know some people that make so much money, but then it's like paying the manicurist, like that extra $2 that could have actually made a difference in her day. And they're like, no, she didn't do a good job on my, on my nails. And I'm like, really? Still? It's just insane.

I really, I really learned this. I had the experience of this when I was working at Lululemon in New York City at Lincoln center on the Upper west ish side, Right between the Upper west side and like Columbus Circle. And I always thought, cause I grew up in like a middle class family. My dad worked for the government, my mom worked for the government. My parents had three kids. There wasn't like a ton of extra money lying around. And money was like, A stressor for my dad for. And I moved to New York and I was figuring stuff out pretty much on my own to a certain degree, like, supporting myself fully. And I remember thinking, like, we're all kind of trained to think that, like, oh, if I could just have more money or if I could just be rich, then all my problems would be solved. And then I'm so grateful that I learned this lesson. Like, I would see these people come into Lululemon with so much money, and yet they were mean and unhappy and rude and taking stuff out on people around. And I literally just again and again was like, oh, the amount does not matter. Sure, money can provide opportunities and resources and it's energy, and I love and I embrace it, but it's not the solution. And I think we need to remember that as we set intentions to make money and to make more money and to uplevel, it's like we have to remember that it can provide opportunities, but it's not necessarily the solution to us being our highest selves.

Totally. And I think there's like this huge conception, like, more money, more problems, when money is just like a magnifying glass of whatever you are. And if you have a lot of problems, they're just going to get bigger. But if you're a really good person, your charity is going to get bigger. So it's just what you are right now.

I love that magnifying glass analogy. That's beautiful.

Yes. So you teach meditation, and a lot of people listening want to start meditating. They don't know where to start. It can seem really overwhelming to sit down for, you know, an hour and think about nothing. So where do you suggest that people begin a meditation practice? And what does that kind of look like?

Yeah, that's such a good question. So I think it's helpful when you're starting off a meditation practice to have some level of guidance or a teacher or a space where you go to meditate and even, like, a community. Because I know, you know, it can be really hard to, like, shut off everything. The computer, the emails, the work, the cell phone. Like, and I know for me, it has been a journey to my cushion. It has been a push and a pull. And when I first started desiring to meditate, it was practically never happening. It's like our rational thinking, doing brains do not want to meditate at all. Like, why would we meditate? It's like, there are so many things to do. It's not efficient, it's not productive. Like, why would I do nothing when I have all of this stuff to do and I face this voice every day.

Still.

Oh, yeah, still. Which is why I meditate. And I even had resistance to this for a really long time. But I meditate pretty much close to first thing in the morning. What I do is I look at my phone when I get up because I just can't not. And maybe I shouldn't or should.

I don't know. I'm the same way.

I'm just curious.

Yeah, I'm really curious. It gives me anxiety the longer I don't. So I'm like, I might as well just get it over with.

Exactly.

Let me see how many people love me on Instagram today.

Exactly. That's when I interviewed Danielle laporte on Soul Feed. That's what she said. She was like, I just want to see who loves me. I just want to see who loves me. And I was like, oh, I'm going to stop beating myself up about that. Not that I was being that hard on myself, but these little subtle ways that we are aggressive with ourselves. I was like, oh, you shouldn't be doing that. And I'm like, whatever. That's what I do.

Same.

I want to see who loves me on Instagram. I also want to see if anyone texted me and needs me. Right.

Or if there are any big emails. I mean, I just do it all.

Me too. So I do that for probably 10 minutes and then I get up and then I have some water. Sometimes I'll have my smoothie first. If I'm feeling like I need to wake up and get moving and am hungry, I won't fight with myself about that. If you want the smoothie, you get the smoothie. I'm like a child. And then, yeah. So somewhere around there, I'll meditate. I have my cushion in my living room. It's always there. I just sit with myself and I do a breath focused meditation where I just like. My intention is to sit there and watch my breath and watch my brain move away from my breath and then come back to the breath and to cultivate what Pema Chodron calls a gentle relationship with myself, where I'm not scolding myself back into focus on your breath, where it's like, oh, shit, I'm not doing it right. But just being there. Some mornings my mind is wild and crazy. Other mornings I'm kind of in the zone and just breathing and exhaling and feeling, feeling good. I do that for sure.

So if you think of thoughts, do you like, just try to not think of them or do you let yourself explore the thoughts?

That's such a good question. And the most effective tool for this that I found, because if I say, don't think the thoughts, then I've formed an opinion and I'm kind of being aggressive and I'm to some degree, like, on some level, suppressing the thoughts. If I say to myself, oh, whatever, just do think the thoughts, then I sometimes feel like I'm not really meditating anymore. I'm just sitting there and thinking about something.

Right.

So this tool is, I find, to be incredibly effective. And you may have heard of it, it's called labeling. And so if I catch myself in a thought system where I'm kind of going down a rabbit hole, what you do is you just say in your mind, thinking. And then you repeat it, thinking. And what it does, and you just say it gently, neutrally, like, oh, caught myself thinking, thinking. And then you course correct yourself back to the breath. And then I might notice that I'm, like, getting anxious and stressed about something. So I'll just say getting anxious, getting anxious. And what it does is it just interrupts the pattern of the brain that wants to follow that whole train of thought. And then it just kind of gently brings you back to the intention, which is like, oh, right, I am meditating today.

I love that. And it's. Yeah, even for me. Like, it's so hard for me to wake up in the morning and then go to nothing. Like, I can meditate after a yoga class or if I've been, like, moving but just to get into it first. So what do you think about the different types of meditation? Moving meditation, or considering anything meditation? Do you still think that's as effective as actually just sitting there?

It's so funny because this is reminding me of. Meditating was very hard for me when I was in New York because I would have private yoga clients in the morning. So I would sort of, like, throw myself out of bed, like, drink water and, like, toss myself out the door and, like, land on the subway and just go. And so meditation for me was more of a struggle because I wasn't really starting my day intentionally. And what I realized because of, like, my New Yorker life was that I really actually had grown accustomed to moving in the morning, like, getting up and moving and then meditating later in the day when I was more awake. And so I think one of my friends and mentors and teachers, Elena Brower, she has a list of, I don't know, maybe 30 or even 50. It doesn't really matter. Like, A bunch of things that she can do each morning. And I think each morning she picks like two or three. So she can do like a seated meditation and some breath work and 10 minutes of yoga, or she could do a course in miracles. And I mean, I'm kind of picking stuff that I do. It might be nice to find a balance between discipline and options for some people, especially if they're just beginning their meditation practice. And I think it's helpful to sometimes like, I get it. Like sometimes I'll go work out in the morning, I go to F45 in Venice and I'll do like a really intense, like cardio workout to wake me up. And then because it was like such an early morning, I'll meditate when I get back to my apartment. The trick is, is just to not let the meditation get written off as not important once you get going in your day.

Right. So would a Shavasana count as a meditation or do you recommend always being seated upright?

I don't count. I mean, I have in the past counted like a yo. Okay, if I go to a yoga class, that equals meditation. And it's fine if that's what it is for some people on a given day, totally cool. Shavasana to me is different than a seated meditation. And there's some research about that. Meditation is more effective when you're seated and your head is above your heart. And I don't know the exact science on it, but I know that there's research that shows that meditation's more effective when you're seated. I mean, don't get me wrong, I love Shavasana or like a lying down sound bath. And that can really relax your nervous system. For me, meditation is about the time that I take to be with myself. So even if I go to a yoga class and I'm in Shavasana, it's a lovely sacred space that someone else is holding for me. And I think, like, it's still nice to have that time with myself. I also think, like, you kind of can feel out like what you need on that day. If you're like really wound up in the middle of the day, it might be good to step away and just set your timer for even five minutes and do a five minute meditation just to like remind yourself that you don't have to keep going, going, going and the kind of keep spinning in this anxious whirlwind. I think like, it's easy to get into that place and that's kind of a red flag because we're not as effective when we're in that kind of neurotic, high strung place.

Right? Totally.

Am I answering?

No. No, it's, it's. No, it's super, super great advice. Now that you're meditating for like daily meditation practice.

Fifteen minutes is my daily practice. If I'm in some situation where maybe I slept a little bit later or I have a call coming up really fast, I will do a 10 minute meditation. It's better to do five or 10. If I can't do the 15 than to not do anything at all. That's totally fine. But 15 minutes is my daily practice. I haven't graduated to 20 yet. It's like, I'm like, I don't want to sit for that long.

Well, I have so many friends that meditate for an hour and I'm like, just how, like my back would hurt so bad like if I was lying down maybe. But I guess that's the Shavasana, so. Yeah. And then they say that they feel like the same experiences that you feel when you're like on psychedelics. That they're like seeing visions and colors and all these things. I'm like, well if that's waiting for me, then maybe I should. But it's like, like for most people, like how would they even get there to just an hour? Some people even an hour twice a day.

Wow.

Yeah.

I mean, props to you.

Yes.

That's awesome. And I don't doubt that some real magical stuff can happen with your mind after like, I don't know, even after like 20, 30 minutes. Because it really, I'm sure you get into a completely other state for me. I mean, and maybe this is just my story of I have so much to do. I have so much to do. But I'm just really satisfied by the 15 and I feel the impact of it throughout my day. I feel more aligned, I feel more focused, I feel more in touch with myself as I get into action. And I have friends who've gone on these vipassana, nine day, ten day meditation retreats. And I could see how if you do something like that, meditating an hour a day might seem like not a lot after meditating for the whole day.

Right? Yeah. Most of the people I know who are meditating an hour to two hours a day have done vipassanas and that was sort of like. And they had never meditated before the vipassana and now they're doing that. So I'm like, okay, in my lifetime I definitely need to experience that.

Yeah, I very much want to. As well, actually, I interviewed a woman on my podcast. Her name is Jennifer Howd, and she wrote a book called Sit, Walk, Don't Talk How I Survived a Silent Meditation Retreat. And it's like a little, tiny book. And it's really insightful because she's an incredible writer and vividly describes her experience of the nine days. And it really brought it to life for me, feeling what it could actually be like to be there. And I want to do one as well.

Yeah. And now they have things that are not like the vipassana, like the Buddhist practice, but just silent retreat centers. So I know there was one in Bali where you're allowed to listen to music and read, and you're allowed to, like, walk around. You don't just have to sit and meditate. So it gives you that experience of, like, being silent and not talking to anyone, but you could kind of do something. So it's sort of like the in between. I'm like, maybe I'll start with that.

It's like the gateway drugs of meditation.

I'm like, that sounds ideal, actually. Just listen to music and read. Can I just live there?

That sounds lovely. And, I mean, there'd be great power in being silent for so many days, you know, and seeing how that affects your energy and what kind of comes up creatively in other ways when you're not using your voice.

Mm. Yeah. There's this guy named Rolfo, Rodolfo or something. He lives in Bali, and he did some sort of silent retreat, and he decided he wanted to remain silent, so he committed himself to one year of silence. And the one year of silence was dedicated to love. And he's, like, the most, like, expressioned person. Like, you see him, and his eyes are speaking so much. And he goes to, like, ecstatic dance yoga. He goes to all the events and is, like, hugging, smiling, dancing, and is totally silent. And then I remember it was like, the end of the year, and he finally gave a speech. The first thing he did was gave a speech about, like, what he learned in that year of silence. And then after a month of talking, he decided he wanted to be silent again.

Wow.

Yeah.

I'm like, wow, love this guy.

Yeah. I'll send you his information. He, like, writes books about it and just, like, just how much more you're able to learn when you actually listen to people and listen to everything around you and listen to yourself.

I love that. That's. I have no doubt how profound that would be. And that would be so hard for me.

So hard.

Yeah. I talk so much Same.

We have podcasts.

So I'm a podcaster.

Okay. Amazing. So another question that I get from a lot of people is they're dealing with anxiety. This seems like an epidemic in today's world. We have so much going on. And in one of your podcast episodes you mentioned your issues are in your tissues. Can you share a little bit more about that and how it can be related to healing anxiety?

Yeah, so. So the issues are in our tissues is something that I learned and most recently I've heard it a couple of times. But I learned this from Nikki Myers, who is the founder of Y12SR, the yoga of 12 step recovery, which combines the cognitive benefits and work of the 12 step program with the somatic experiencing embodied work of yoga. And it's a really powerful healing modality that really worked for her. That's how she recovered from her addiction was through both yoga and 12 steps step. So anyway, and I've also studied with Sean Korn, Hala Corey and Suzanne Sterling in the off the Mat into the World Yoga Leadership Training, which does trauma informed work and teaches leaders in the yoga and meditation community about how to be informed about trauma and help take this work of doing inner work on the mat into the world. And so, you know, what I've learned through these teachers and practices is that it's like our. I'm gonna just keep quoting other people because I've learned from so many incredible teachers. It's like Carolyn Mace says, the author of Anatomy of the Spirit, our biography becomes our biology. So in other words, what happens to us in our lives is memorized and coded in our tissues in our cellular makeup. And so certain experiences and even all experiences and traumas are remembered by this vessel that we live in. So, you know, anxiety is interesting because so to me, and I'm gonna share this, and this is a definition that resonates for me. And so I offer it to anyone else who it might resonate with. And it's fine if it doesn't as well. But to me, depression is when we are stuck psychologically, physically, emotionally, spiritually, for whatever reason, we're stuck in the past and we're attached to something in the past. And because we're not in present time and we're attached to that thing in the past, it's weighing us down and it creates a heaviness and a depression upon us. Anxiety is being too much invested in the future. We're ahead of ourselves, we're trying to control outcomes and because of that, we're experiencing the sensations of anxiety. So Anxiety to me is a signal from my body saying, Shannon, get back into present time, you're getting too ahead of yourself now. Anxiety can also be a trauma response that I don't feel safe in this moment in this body. So it's actually a coping mechanism for me to like trying to manipulate and control outcomes in the future. And that can create anxiety. And then on top of that, there's just the lives that we live now with social media and we're on our phones and there's so much information coming at us that that's anxiety provoking and even traumatic, even in and of itself. Sean Korn defines trauma as something that happens to us that impedes our ability to cope and leaves us feeling hopeless or helpless. So trauma can look like different things. If we feel like we can't cope and we feel hopeless or helpless us, that is an experience of trauma. And so for me and what I experienced through my practice and what I see a lot of people benefit from is through mindful movement, yoga, meditation and inner work, we have the capacity to release and discharge energy that we might be holding onto that is causing us to experience depression or anxiety. And when we release it, we can show up and be more present and be more ourselves and heal. And that that healing can actually help be the healing and the medicine that we offer to others, whether it's through a casual interaction or through our work. So yeah, the issues are in our tissues. It's like the body remembers and knows everything. The body is much, much more intelligent than just our mind's ability to understand. And it's a reminder that it's important for all of us to do, to do our inner work totally well.

I love how you explain that. And that's exactly how I explain it too. And it's actually related to the doshas. Kapha is depressed and stuck in the past. Vata is anxious and stuck in the future. And then Pitta, which is the fire dosha, is so in the present that sometimes they become angry. You know, it's like they lose track of how they're going to hurt that person or maybe the great things they've done for them in the past so they just like burst.

So I'm very pitta.

Yes, yes. It's because you're so present. So it's so and exactly. And Ayurveda is all about like the mind, body connection. And now we're learning so much. Like in every yoga class, I think they tell you like emotional trauma stored in your hips, pigeon pose, you might cry and it's like now this is becoming like known information, which is so exciting.

Absolutely, yeah. And I think it requires that because it is becoming more known that we as helping professionals, yoga teachers, coaches, become even more sensitive, tuned into and informed about this work. So it's like as a yoga teacher, am I simply saying like trauma stored in your hips, like get ready to cry or can I really speak to that in a way where the room feels safe and it has depth and meaning? And I'm not simply just throwing around language, which I'm saying this to myself as I say this. It's like it's so important that we as teachers share from our experience and our own healing and from the information that we have from our studies so that we're really helping people not only understand, but embody and release whatever they may be holding onto.

I love that. And, and I would love to know more about how can we as coaches, healers, or even friends be a little bit more informed about languaging and interacting with people who've experienced trauma.

Oh my. I almost feel like under qualified to answer such a question because it's something that I know many people who are so deep into this work. And so I think that the answer to this question is really to be very, very mindful about int. And one of the things that we talk about in yoga leadership in trauma informed social justice spaces is that intention doesn't always match impact. And so as a teacher, I make sure to make it a part of my practice when I'm teaching yoga that I always ask for permission if I want to lay hands on someone. And because I could with great intentions assume that someone is going to love this juicy assist that I'm about to give them. Oh, how lucky they are. I'm the teacher and I'm going to touch them them and that person may hold in their bodies some trauma about a man touching them. And to be in a position of power means that we must be in relationship with our clients and with our friends and with the people who we are wishing to help. We must be in relationship with these people in a way that they have a choice to participate with us in their healing and that I'm not pushing anything on someone. So languaging is important. And I know I'm actually not very good about this in my classes. I don't practice this as much in my classes consciously, but if I was working with a specifically trauma informed group, I would use this tool which is to, instead of directing people and telling them what to do, if you're in a trauma informed space, you wanna invite them. So I invite you to reach your right arm up and give lots of options. So there's not this sort of Dominan authoritative, like you must do this kind of thing.

So Bikram's like the worst place for them?

Probably, yes. But I mean for some people it could be, I mean it's so interesting because sometimes we like that if you've experienced trauma, you like that aggressive approach which actually in some way could, could be perpetuating that dynamic.

Right.

So for some people, they might be, that might feel safe to them and that might be where their yoga practice starts. But yes, generally speaking, Bikram would be the opposite of trauma informed.

Yes. Yeah. And I think a lot of us, I mean even if we don't know if we've experienced trauma and like, or really what is the definition of trauma, which is a whole other podcast episode, but I think a lot of us come into a yoga practice with this fitness mindset of I want someone to boss me around and push my limits and make me sweat the most. So I feel like I got the most out of my hour. And it's like, is that yoga? And it's also like changing the definition of what can yoga be? I mean, nothing today is authentic yoga, but do we even have to practice authentic yoga? So I'd love for you to talk more about that conversation because I know it's a really big one in the yoga community right now.

Oh my gosh, yes. I remember I was doing catalysts retreat with some social justice spiritual warriors who are at the intersection of well being and social justice. And you know, yoga teachers, coaches, yoga studio owners, meditation leaders. And there was one woman who was there, who was Indian and who is Indian and she brought up to the room the cultural appropriation issue of yoga in the world west and how she feels like it's a huge fu to her culture and to the roots of yoga. And you know, to me as, like, as like a dancer who grew up in the United States, who moved to New York, who found yoga in the East Village, yoga to the people like packed like sardines, you know, on St. Mark's Place.

I practice there.

Yes. To me I'm, I'm like, this is amazing. This is good, this is movement, this is breath, this is prayer, this is sacred. Just learning what I'm learning from, who I'm learning it from. Sometimes it's just important to know that whether we like it or not, it's been and continues to be appropriated and there Are people who have feelings about that? And what kind of teacher could I be and how could I support the traditions of yoga by simply just listening to the experience of someone else who's upset about.

So what did she suggest? Like, she just didn't really like how yoga was becoming popular here.

Yeah, it was so long ago that I don't remember the exact specifics, but it was a highly charged emotional moment that was really beautiful because it was a very safe space that was created over the course of a long weekend. So a lot of truth speaking started to occur on the second and third day. And she had some anger and sadness around the appropriation of it and the lack of regard for the roots of yoga. And it was just very meaningful for her to look around and with a great deal of pitta, sort of say, like, f all of you.

Yeah.

And we all had to hear that and be like, whoa. You know, it's so normalized, this new popularized version of yoga that many of us weren't even thinking about her.

Right. Yeah. I mean, today I went to this class, it was like a yoga and spinning fusion class and there were books everywhere called no Om Zone. And that was the branding of it. This is yoga with no om taking that spiritual component out. And I mean, it's like freedom of speech. Everyone's allowed to do what they want, but it's like, oh, we want it. Then is it yoga or is it just a stretch class?

Right, right. And there's no Om zone. That makes me so uncomfortable and sad. Yeah, it's interesting. It's so interesting because I dance in many worlds in this community and I have feet in the social justice world and arms in the popular hot yoga, infrared hot yoga world. And I have friends who teach that. The Iyengar, like very like alignment based world. And there's, I mean, to me, yoga has become like. And I don't know if this speaks to where it came from, but to me, yoga has become something as broad as like food that there are so many different flavors and styles and ways of cooking up this practice that to me, from my vantage point, it's very beautiful because through the teachers who I've studied with, I've been able to learn all these different modalities and create my own stew of teaching. And I can also see how it's been commercialized. You know, like it's been a spiritual practice, a physical, emotional and spiritual practice that's been taken and used by a capitalist system. And that part of me is like, well, that is what it is. And I'm just grateful that I learned and continue to learn yoga and that I have access to practicing. And I think that it's back to what we were talking about, about being sensitive to. That's not the reality for everyone. And how can I lift up certain aspects of yoga or give opportunities to people who feel more connected to the original lineage of yoga and explore that. And it's so interesting. It's like there's so many different entry points to yoga. You know, I started yoga, yoga to the people. Some people start yoga at their gym, other people start yoga in a hot room. And there's like, depending on where you enter this world, you're gonna get what you need at that point, hopefully. But yoga for me has become so much more than vinyasa and a workout. It's actually become more of a meditation and a way for me to explore my body from the inside out. But for some people, it's like a quick 60 minute workout. Wham, bam, thank you, ma'. Am. And I think there's space for all of it, but we also should be sensitive to where it came from.

Totally. Yeah. I mean, I understand both sides. Like, I used to live in India for two years, and I'm not Indian. And when I moved there, I was like, I want to do all the original authentic yoga. And I was practicing Ashtanga and I went down to this ashram and I hated the yoga. I literally hated it. It was like this big fat man, and all he wanted to do is like. Like there was no transitions between poses. It was like, okay, now you stand. Like, now you get into this, like, super hard pose and it's like, now you get into. And like, it was just like, it was so not what I had practiced. And it just didn't flow. It didn't make sense to me. So then I was like, then what is. You know, even what he's doing, he learned from his guru, who learned from someone else. And everything is a remix. Like, what really is original yoga? Like, there's no such thing. Like, even Ashtanga was created at some point. Everything is created at some point. So it's like, where do we stop and say, no, no, at this point, this is where yoga is. And everything past that is no longer yoga. Like, we're still creating yoga.

Exactly, exactly. And that is how I feel is like yoga. Yoga means union. To yoke. Yes, to integrate. And when I practice yoga, I feel whole after. I feel more whole, more my highest self. And it's bringing my mind into the movement. And Linking everything together with the breath and feeling into my emotions and where my emotions live in certain areas, places of the body, and how certain poses release it. And there's different ways to integrate and to become whole again. And it's like, we can be mindful of the fact that we're always learning and we're always creating and we're always practicing in the moment now. And. Yeah. And I think if you're mindful and if you're present and you're teaching from a space of confidence and humility, then it's okay. I don't want anyone to listen to this and be like, oh, my God, I have to be worried about how I'm teaching or I don't know enough, or I need to go back to India to learn and find the original yoga. It's like, where you're at is okay. And just be mindful that there's always more to learn.

Yeah. And in terms of the appropriation, I remember Coldplay came out with this music video, and Beyonce is in this kind of sari with all this Indian jewelry, but it's super sexy. And a lot of Indians in the US Were. Were really angry about that. And, like, how is Beyonce appropriating our culture? This is not even how Asari's worn. She's not Indian. They were really angry about it. And then when I talk to my friends in India, they're so excited about it. Beyonce's in a. Sorry. We're bringing Bollywood to America, and it's almost like I feel like in the US like, we are just. We just get angry about everything. Whereas, like, over there, they're just, like, really excited that Beyonce, like, knows what they wear. So it's, like, also, like, changing that perspective to, like, you know, like, maybe it's a beautiful thing that we're all celebrating India and that we all want to practice yoga and we all want to do teacher trainings in India. This is an amazing thing that, like, India is having, like, this, like, renaissance in the West.

I love that viewpoint. Like, I think that's very much. It's so beautiful. It's like imitation is the fondest form of flattery.

Yes.

And sometimes when we imitate, we get it wrong, but. Because at least we're doing it, because at some point, we're gonna get it right, and it's gonna be. And getting it right just means that someone's having the experience of yoga, of union within themselves. And so to me, that's worth it. And, yeah, I love what you said about that. That's Beautiful.

Yes. And even yoga in India actually stopped being popular. I mean, people weren't practicing it. It only got popular again in the past decade because it got popular in the whole the west, because a lot of what people do in India is emulate the west. And now if yoga is popular, like, they're going to try doing it. And the same with Ayurveda. When I was started studying it there like five years ago, ish, none of my Indian friends, they just thought Ayurveda was like a kind of oil or massage. They didn't know anything about the eating practice or. And even the grandmothers didn't really know that much about it. It was just sort of like, oh, like this is just how we eat. And now I think, I think it's coming back into popularity because it's popular in the West.

So interesting.

Yeah.

So interesting.

Yeah. So we, we're just kind of passing.

It back and forth.

Totally. Exactly. Like, they want to be like us. We want to be like them and just like this, like, weird dance.

It's kind of cool when you look at cultural influence like that.

Yeah.

There we're impacting each other. It's not. It doesn't belong to anyone.

Totally. And I think, yeah, even just like going past cultures, like, you know, like, this is a practice for people and it doesn't matter what culture it's from. This is for everyone.

Yeah. And then it's such a balance because it's like, yes, it's for everyone. It's for people. And then of course, like, I can hear in the back of my head like someone's voice saying, but, like. And honor where it came from.

Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. It's this constant practice. I wish that in all, I think now people in yoga teacher trainings, it's like changing. But I know, like they, they very lightly skim over Ayurveda. I think they get more into the yoga sutras. But I think we had to start with the yoga as just this thing that you do to lose weight and look like Jennifer Aniston. But that's what we needed to learn about it. And now it's gonna get deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper. And with episodes like this, people listening who may have never even considered yoga are gonna be like, oh, wow, maybe I do wanna learn more about this practice.

Yeah. I mean, it's like for me, yoga is not. It can be a workout for sure. It can strengthen my body and it can open me up, but it's such a practice of self love and Exploring all that my body is capable of internally and externally and breathing through it all and cultivating a practice of breath and movement. To me, it's an embodied prayer. And it's so many nuances in my practice, from Vinyasa to Ashtanga to, to Iyengar to forest yoga to Hatha yoga meditation. It's just like I don't even know what I'm doing anymore. I just know that I'm so happy that it is something I'm doing.

Totally. And it feels so amazing. And another big thing for me was I stopped going to yoga as my form of workout. I was like, oh, well, this is like my workout meditation, so maybe I should hold the planks longer. And now I do like other things that are like fitness classes and stuff. So when I go to yoga, I'm just there to, to like fully be embodied.

Yes. Yes. I love it. Yes, I love it.

Thank you so much for sharing with us, for giving us such great pointers and for really opening our minds to so many new discussions which hopefully listeners will take home. So where can listeners connect with you, listen to your podcast, take your workshops and join your retreats?

Yes. Well, I would love to, you know, on the topic of yoga, I would love to share with you and all of your listeners that I recently created and launched a new online platform that's a sacred space of yoga and meditation classes called Awaken Yoga. And Awaken Yoga is. Yeah, there's tons of yoga and meditation classes of various lengths, everything from five or 10 minutes to 60 minutes, 90 minutes. There's a lot of different options and it's designed for you to practice yoga wherever you are. And I am one of the teachers on Awaken Yoga. There's many different classes with me and also my friend Alexa Salvaggio and Jessie Barr, two amazing yoga teachers. And all of us have our own unique styles, but actually, coincidentally all have a background in theater and dance. And yeah, so anyone can do a free 30 day trial where you can try any and all of the classes for 30 days for free when you go to www.awaken.yoga and we talked so much about yoga today. So if you're just like, what the hell is this guy talking about? And you just want to try a practice, you can go there and you can also text, text the word. I believe it's awaken. Yeah, text awaken to the number 33444 and we'll send you the link. And I also amannalgeo.com My last name is a L G E O shannonalgeo.com I'm shannon.algeo on Instagram where I love to connect with people and talk and share and yeah, I also, I just feel called to share this. I have a community on Facebook that is all we're all practicing gratit. Going back to you were talking about earlier, like, about scarcity and how to create an antidote to scarcity, which is the practice of gratitude. So the Facebook group is 100 Days of Gratitude. That's the name of it all Unicorns welcome. So you have to be a grateful unicorn to get in. So you'll know if that's you.

I'm joining.

And it's like I actually, I started it. I was, I was getting out of a breakup and I was moving and I was going through a lot and I was actually feeling very depressed. Depressed. And I knew I was in scarcity and so I knew I needed to be practicing gratitude and I thought maybe some other people might want to practice with me. So that was sort of the start of that group. And just. Sahara, thank you so much for having me on the podcast with you today. I love your questions, I love your energy, I love your thoughtfulness and curiosity.

Oh, thank you.

You're really awesome. Thank you.

Yay. Thank you so much. And I'll post all of those links in the show notes so people can and find you and be a grateful unicorn with you.

Amazing. Yes. Come be a grateful unicorn.

Yay.

Sounds amazing. And yeah, thanks so much.

Thank you so much. Namaste.

Namaste.

Meditation challenge, anyone? How about we all try doing a meditation when we first wake up for 10 minutes for 10 days.

Should we give this a try? High self podcast try.

Okay, let's do this.

And if you loved this episode and you'd like a little gift for reviewing it, I would love to send you the first half of my unreleased book. It's called eat right for your mind body type. It is not available for sale anywhere. Never will because now it is eat right for your mind body type 12 week guided program infusing ayurveda with modern nutritional science. So as a free gift for reviewing this episode in the itunes store, you just head over to itunes on your phone, on your computer, click write a review, write a nice review. You take a screenshot of it and email it over to me before you hit submit. My email is Sahara S A H A R aatfeelfresh.com and I will send you back the first half of my unreleased book, eat right for your mind body type. I hope you loved this episode. And I'll see you on the next one. Namaste Sa.