092: Dance Is The Global Language with Vandana Hart

It's Sahara Rose. And welcome back to the Highest Self podcast, a place where we discuss what makes you your soul's highest evolvement. As you guys know, dance has been a huge part of my life. I love every type of dance, especially the free flowing ones like ecstatic dance and vibrance and five elements and my own type of dance. Dance your doshas, things that allow you to just get into your body and really release these blocks that we have somatically which are just stored tensions and emotions stuck in our hips and our pelvis and our jaws, which are really just wounds from our childhood, from our past lives, from our ancestors that we're holding onto this body. And dance is what allows us to cathartically release them so we can heal our lives and all of the generations onwards. And this is why I am so excited about today's guest, Vandana Hart. She is the creator and host of the Netflix worldwide show We Speak Dance. It's a documentary series that uses dance as a language to connect people across cultures. While she was working for the UN, she ended up traveling to over 80 countries leading dance workshops, choreographing music videos and consulting for the UN Women's Rights and Youth Empowerment organization. She's presented at forums. She got the show on Netflix and.

We ended up meeting up to dance.

Hall dance together and had so much fun and so many things in common. She definitely has my hustler type of personality of just get it done, walk.

Up to people, say what you need to say.

And that's what brought her here. And it's really inspiring that she was able to create and produce this show about a topic that's not really mainstream global dances and how they heal cultures and get it on Netflix. So it's truly an incredible insight on what you could really do if you.

Really believe in yourself.

And also just how healing the dance modality is and how every culture around the world uses dance as a method of healing, of loving, of gathering the community together. And dance is just as old as our bodies and our bones and our spirits. And it's time for us to get back to the movement. So right before we get Vandana on, let's hear a note from our sponsor.

Uveda.

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So welcome Vandana to the Highest Self Podcast. It's so good to have you here.

Thank you for having me.

And we just went to dancehall class on Sunday. So much fun.

That was like church. It was literally Sunday church.

Good.

And the teacher, what was her name?

Nina Flagg.

She killed it. She talked about Jamaica and dance being everything for people, and there was, like a hundred students going up and down, and the energy was just flowing. Is honestly one of the best dance classes I've ever taken.

So good. Yeah. I mean, when I was connected with you through Layla and she told me you were here, I was like, okay, if you're a dancer, you need to come to this class because, like, any, like, true dancer is going to just love the vibe there.

I was transported. Yeah.

It takes you to another place. So the first question that I want to ask you, that I ask everyone, is, what makes you your highest self?

That's such a good question and such a good thing to think about ongoing in your life to help prioritize, like, where we put energy, like, what makes you your highest self? That's beautiful. For me, that's an easy one. I am obsessed with dance and movement. And when I dance and I dance with people I know or people I don't know, just when I start moving my body, I feel like I'm at my highest self. I'm connected to my soul, something bigger than myself. And that really gives me so much passion and inspiration and really has led me on my journey this lifetime.

I love that. So can you tell us a little bit about that journey? How you came to be, how dance became your passion? You ended up making a show about it.

Yeah. So we just launched a show on Netflix called We Speak Dance. And it's a culmination of really my passion for how dance is a tool to Unite people. And you can use dance as protest, as prayer, as ceremony across every culture. It's our first language. It's really one of the most beautiful things. And what I started seeing. I've trained as a dancer since I was three years old, and I've done all styles of dance, but I would go to communities that I'd never been to before. And once we started dancing together, there was this bond that would form, and I would feel like I was from there. I was part of that community within seconds of moving together. And they would say, hey, come live here, be with us. Build a dance school here. Move here. We love you. And just within minutes of dancing, like, you'd have that really intense connection. I'd have that in South Africa, in Italy, in Brazil, Kenya, New York. So I've danced across so many dance floors, and it's taught me so much about myself and also, more importantly, about the world and how that we all want the same things. We all want that deep level of connection and to feel like that oneness. And dance really gives us that. So I started working at the UN on women's rights and ending violence against women in this program called the Safe Cities Global Program. And that was in five countries, then expanded to 30 countries. And I also danced. And in New York, I was dance battling with, like, the famous hip hop dancers who choreographed, Remember the time they're called the Mobtops. I was training at Alvin Ailey, so doing a lot of classical ballet and contemporary modern and really just immersing in all these different dance languages. But I always left myself separated as two different parts. As a dancer, professionally, as an artist, my creative self, and then my humanitarian work with the UN on fighting for women's rights is another identity. But when I started to really put those two things together is when the magic happened. When I lived in Kenya, I was working for the un.

Baby's trying to jump on her lap right now.

It's hilarious. Your baby's so cute. This is the cutest dog in the world. So when I was living in Kenya, I was judging so youo Think youk Can Dance, the Kenyan version, and also working at the UN on ending violence against women. And I started combining the two things for the first time. I started doing women's rights trainings and dance workshops. And I realized, gosh, I've always separated these things, but I'm actually making the deepest connection with people and bringing the highest level of social impact and my highest self to the table. When I'm bringing my art and my passion for Social justice together. And it was through that that I came up with this idea to travel the world and look at different cities and culture and places and people through dance. And I call it kind of the Anthony Bourdain of dance. Where in Vietnam we visit a pole dancer and hear about women's rights and pole dancing. And she does this demonstration of pole dancing in the middle of Hanoi. And then in another part of the Vietnam episode, we go learn about a 3000 year old dance style where people use dance to speak to the gods. Yeah. So in Vietnam we met this pole dancer who.

I love that episode.

Yeah, it's really emotional because she really broke so many stereotypes. And I think that's a beautiful thing about using our art too. We can break stereotypes and assumptions. And she said that as a pole dancer, she felt more empowered pole dancing in Vietnam than in Europe. And it wasn't less sexualized art form in Vietnam because it's relatively new. And she did this public performance in front of hundreds of people for us. And it was the first pole dancing performance ever done in Hanoi. And she's like, that felt so good.

And how are people taking that?

People loved it. They. They see it as art. They don't see it as like this, like objectification of a woman's body because during the communist era there wasn't pole dancing. It was very. They see it as like Cirque du Soleil. So there isn't this association that we have in Western countries.

Right.

That it's stripping, that it's stripped dancing. So she's like, yeah, it's easier for me. She started the first pole dancing academy there. And it's so cool. In one episode we'll travel to like something that's really new, urban and edgy, that we can relate to here in LA or New York. And then we'd go travel 3,000 years and learn about a dance that was banned during the communist time called Lei Dong. And Lei Dong, the spirit enters your body and.

And this is in what country?

Vietnam. Still, a spirit enters your body and you become one of 34 different characters that could be the mother goddess, that could be an army general, that could be some other divine spirit. And only certain people can be mediums of these spirits. So we went and watched this whole ceremony of this girl who turns into a general. And it doesn't matter what gender, if you're a man or a woman dancing this, you can play all the parts.

Can you decide what spirit comes through or.

No, it just happens to you and you let it happen. So we watch this. It was incredible. And that was something that kind of spiritually evolved for me as a dancer. Training for so many years was very much about the body and my emotions. But studying dance in different cultures in Cuba, in Nigeria and Vietnam, you start to see this pattern that every culture has a dance to speak to the gods, that it's a way that you can connect to nature. And then there's a dance for earth, fire, wind, the ocean. In Afro Cuban dance, you see this, that there's like all these dances for the elements of nature. And in Vietnam, you see that the gods can possess your body. And in West Africa, you still have those same dances, that the body is the vehicle and dance is the vital state that you enter to be able to deliver those messages from the gods. So I never had that spiritual connection to dance or never really understood what it was. And I see it as a universal truth that in any part of the world that I go, you start to see, wow, dance has something sacred in it.

Totally, yes. My shamanic teacher Malaika was saying that when she used to live in Africa, they would dance and dance all night, and about six in the morning, the spirits would come through and that's when the dance became cathartic and they were truly out of their bodies. But they had to prepare just dancing as themselves until then, to access that point of total openness completely.

And I really do think you see it in like, Kundalini. It's like the shaking of the body and the gyration. And there's something to be said that there's this pattern of certain kinds of movements in the chest and the hip and after long periods of time and the melodic beats of the drums, this connection, it's this really marriage of the music and dance where you become bigger than yourself, you lose yourself. And I've had that happen in dance battles and in dance circles where I'm so in the music that I lose the sense of my body and like, something else just takes over. And every dancer who's really gone deep into it can explain that. Like, any dancer who's really like, dedicated their life to this craft will tell you, oh, there's this moment where I was dancing and just like everything went black or I saw colors, or I just. I was. I went to another place or it felt like something took over my body.

Right. And you're so connected to the music and you're like, articulating to the music in ways that, like, mentally you could. You could never have that level of musicality if you were in your head?

Oh, completely. So I think that is something really interesting to me that I never had a label for or understood. It just happened organically. And now studying dance cultures around the world, I'm like, oh, there's something here. And I'm a little bit afraid of kind of going into that deeper spiritual element of dance, because in Western culture, we do strip that story from our dance training.

Right.

But when you go and learn about ancient cultures, it's one in the same. Dance is sacredness. And these ceremonies are done to be able to speak to the gods. There's no separation. So I think we've forgotten that as dancers in a Western culture, that this is something that's much bigger than ourselves. And it doesn't have to be God, but it could be whatever you want to call it that you do expand. And maybe it's nature or Mother Earth or whatever you want to call it. But that's been one of the most exciting things. One of the most mystical experiences that I've had happen was in Bali. I met this community that was praying at a temple with no walls. It's, like, surrounded by trees, and it's considered one of the most sacred places in Bali. And one of the elders in that community speaks to spirits. And his walkie talkie was going off, and he was telling us that he was getting messages about our group, our film crew. And this isn't included in the episode, but they go off and each person had, like, messages that they needed to hear through the walkie talkie, through one of the guys who was telling us to do walkie talkie at the bottom of the hill. It was a very strange experience.

So the guy on the bottom of the hill was getting the messages from the spirit, and he was walkie talkie.

In to the people who were part of the ceremony. And they're like, sorry, we always listen to this guy. I'm like, how often does this happen? And they're like, daily. So I was like, wow, you guys are kept busy here. So everybody from the team had, like, a different piece of knowledge, but when they got to me, they didn't even know I was a dancer. We told them that we were filming a documentary. We didn't say what it was, and we asked for permission to film. So they didn't know who I was or what that I was exploring dance cultures. But the spirit said that I needed to go to Myanmar, to Burma, and learn a sacred dance from a woman with gold bangles around her upper arms. And when I learn that dance It'll elevate the sacredness of my own dance. And I just wasn't prepared to get that message. And then it's just. That's how.

So did you go when you're in.

Your flow, when you're traveling and you're really open? Because we just pulled over, we didn't plan on stopping and filming at this temple, but we saw all these people dressed in white, and we're like, wow, what's going on? Let's graciously go and see what's happening and see if we can maybe be part of it or film it. And they welcomed us and had all these messages for us. So that's what's so beautiful about Bali. Like, everywhere you go, there's messages. And if you're listening, you can be part of it or you don't have to be. It's. They're there, and you can invite them or you can keep doing your own thing. And we were like. Our team was really open to this and had met so many incredible leaders in different communities that we all were open to this advice. And it looks like we know where we need to film next.

Yeah. So the Anwar's next.

I'd love that. I'd love that. I'm really interested in also showing how dance can, like, end wars and conflict. And with the humanitarian crisis there, it'd be really beautiful to set up some dance programs for the refugees on the border of Thailand. We're doing that in the Lebanon episode. We went and visited a refugee camp, and we've started to set up dance classes there. The star of the Lebanon episode, this amazing male dancer, is now teaching there every week.

Wow.

And that's kind of. I think my goal with content and storytelling is not to just make a spectacle of something, especially if there's human suffering involved, is like, to how do we share these stories, build empathy? But then let's go a step further. People's awareness is raised. How do we also get involved and do something concrete and actionable that can make a difference? And the best way to do that, that I've learned, is ask, what do people want here? What do people need here? And we asked that refugee camp in Lebanon, all these Syrian refugees have been flooding in over the last few years. What's needed here? And they're like, oh, we have no arts education. And the fact that you have dance, if there's any way we could continue this, the kids would love it. So that's something we can easily do. And I think if everyone brings, like, their talent or Their creative passion to share with people in need. I think the world would be a lot better.

Absolutely. I love that. And that's such a great episode when you go to the Palestinian refugee camp, or not even a camp, just kind of like a part of the city where they're all left. And I asked my boyfriend, whose family's from Lebanon, and he was like, yeah, I've never been to that part of town.

Yeah, it's been there since 1949. An informal settlement, and none of the Palestinians can work. So it's just kind of this informal city that has wires everywhere, and you see the visual part. And then now all the Syrian refugees are coming in and sharing that camp or that city, and they're allowed to work. So it's a really complicated. And Lebanon's a fascinating part of the world because they kind of sit in the middle of so many different countries and borders that are really complicated. And I love traveling that part of the world because each country has a very different story to tell from their perspective. And so I've been to Israel, I've been to Egypt and to Lebanon, and with my work with the UN as well as doing film work. And each perspective is very different, and each story is different, and that's how we become more knowledgeable, just, like, understanding people's perspective. And I'm definitely not an expert on that region, but I think visiting a refugee camp and sharing a skill that you have there is just like a beautiful concrete thing, like a first step in connecting with people across the world.

Totally. And what have you seen, like, similarities or patterns with people's cultures and their dance form?

Yeah, that's a good question. Yeah, there's. Gosh, that's so cool. I think definitely this connection to nature is something that you see that I've mentioned before. There's also, like, different parts of the body that are isolated. So there's three parts of the body that I think are really distinguished. The shoulders, like, you see it in, like, Bollywood moves. You see it in traditional Ethiopian dancing as, like, this shaking and gyrating of the shoulders. It's just so beautiful.

A lot of Persian dancing is so.

Persian dancing as well. So there's like, this beautiful kind of emphasis in different cultures of upper body. You see in belly dancing, obviously, the isolation of the hips, but also isolation of the shoulders. And in West African dance, the arching and gyrating of the back and the booty is like. Learning Afrobeat dance from Yenikuti was one of my most favorite moments. And some of these moves that you see in Africa, you see them specifically to each country. There are moves, and then there are other moves that are so popular, they travel the entire continent and beyond. You know, you could make connections with krumping to traditional West African dance, as well as the Harlem shake or twerking. All these popular dance styles in Jamaica, in the us, New York, that are kind of these urban styles. A lot of them have roots in traditional West African dance, if not all of them. And it's so beautiful to kind of see that with tap dancing even, and, like, some of the footwork that you see in traditional African dance and even ballet. Like, you could argue, like, where does ballet come from? Yes, in France. But some of these movements, I think, go so much further back and have been informing each other. It's just so cool to see all the different identities. But then there are shapes and parts of the body that you see patterns that are emulated throughout the world. In Brazil, samba dancing is really similar to a West African footwork style of the feet going back and forth, left to right, very quickly. But in Brazil, they do it front and back, and the hips go in the opposite direction. And there's a place that I went in Rio where they brought the slaves, and they said it was the birthplace of samba, Pedro do Sol. And they have a samba circle there where everyone sings every Friday. And I went back in 2008, and now, like, thousands of people go there, and it's like this really authentic feeling of what it was like. And for hundreds, if even not thousands of years, people came there saying and did these dances together. And I think that's what gives us the highest level of happiness and purpose. And it's just so simple. And being in a tribe, being in a circle around musicians and singing and moving together, and that, I really think, can unify any people. If you weekly, ideally, daily, have that experience of singing and dancing and moving together in a circle where you're on that same rhythm. One of my favorite new musicians that I've met, Nacho, he's called the Sound Alchemist, and he plays all these crazy instruments, and he talks about how the sound really, when we get on the same heartbeat as each other, then we really start to hear each other, and we listen. We can only listen when we're on that same rhythm and our heartbeats are all moving on that same beat. So he puts these body drumming circles together and has people of all backgrounds, and he's like. And sometimes the smartest people, the most successful people, have the hardest time dancing and moving on that same beat and finding that rhythm. But he's saying, if you don't have rhythm, how do those people can't really listen? They can't really hear each other. So it's just so funny to get back into that kind of grounding of what's so organic and natural about dance and our humanity and our ability to understand, listen to each other, and have empathy for each other, I think is really rooted in that shared community.

Yeah, I think it's really interesting that he said that because it's so true that when we can't listen to other people, how can we follow a melody? And that's really all it is. It's just to not be in your own head so you can hear what's going on around you and become part of it completely.

That's so true. What's your favorite dance style?

Oh, I mean, I love belly dance. That's, like, what's true to my heart, because it just comes so naturally and easily to me and, you know, being Middle Eastern and past lives and all of that. But dancehall has been really fun because it's so not what I grew up doing, and it feels so foreign to me, but I love it because it brings forth this energy, this, like, pitta fire energy that I, like, want more of. So I see dance as, like, a way to, like, tap into parts of you that you may not normally, like, sit in.

So true. Is there a particular episode that you watched, like, that you felt as a dancer, as a creative, like, really connected to.

I mean, I loved seeing the belly dance, but I also loved seeing you go to Africa. And I'm also very passionate about twerking. So I loved the little, like, twerk lesson that you did with that woman. Daughter. I don't remember what her name was.

Daughter.

Right. So that was amazing, because I feel like twerking is such a thing that we're like. We think it's new. We're like, oh, these young kids are twerking. And it's like, no, this is a sacred art form. And moving your butt does not. It doesn't necessarily mean it's sexual at all. Like, this is where wisdom is stored. And I think we all need to move more, shake our asses a little bit more and get more into our hips, because that's where, like, the true knowledge lies.

Yeah, I think, too. We get so boxy. I think we lose our wisdom and our memory and our full potential when we're moving in very linear ways. We can make squares, circles, triangles. We can go upside down, we can shake every part of our body, but when we stagnate that energy, we're actually really losing our memories and our body wisdom. We lose that connection. And you see it when the way people sit, their posture and just their lack of awareness of their body. And that's what's so beautiful about dance and dancing together is you build that awareness of your own body and those around you.

Right? Yeah. I mean, I used to teach belly dance and I would see a lot of people, like doing a hip circle was like so foreign and weird to them. And I'm like, how do you have sex? Like, how do you, like, you know, how are you going to have a baby? Like, how are you going. This is like where everything is stored. We have to get into that part of us. Otherwise, like, you know you're gonna fall down and fracture your hip if you can't do a hip circle.

So we're sitting so much. We just, we sit so much. And I think, yeah, we lose that thing that like our sensuality and our expressing ourselves. And with women, there's shame. There's so much shame. Or even with me, I would hide that I was a dancer when I worked at the un while I'm working on women's empowerment.

Right.

Myself, I have a lot of confidence, a lot of self love, but I was so, so challenged by embracing my identity as a dancer because there was shame about expressing my body in a sensual way. And I wanted to hide that from my professional identity. And that makes no sense. It's the most natural thing and it's a beautiful part of my artistry and I'm still working on that daily. Of embracing that and taking classes helps and just moving. Ecstatic dance is a really fun way. We feature an ecstatic dance and then Bali in the middle of the jungle with everyone really just letting their body tell them how they want to move. And that's a whole different way of dancing. The professional dancers you see in videos and on stage, it's about how do we create shapes and lines are the most visually appealing with the ecstatic dance. The more kind of creative approach and free approach to dancing of just letting your body tell you which way to move. I think that is some of the best therapy that you can have is if you wake up in the morning and yes, do your meditation, do your dear, like chanting your rounds, your sun salutations, whatever you need, whatever your rituals are. But I think just wiggling, like starting with your hips, moving your shoulders up into your neck, rolling your head and just listening to your own body, how does it want to move? Is there a space in my body that I haven't moved or I haven't activated this week? Or is there pain or tension somewhere? And then just using that. And we can do that by ourselves or we can share that with other people. And ecstatic dance is such a fun community. They have them in cities all over the world where you can express, kind of shed that energy, let out that stress and that tension, anxiety, like, stored emotion. So many things that dance is so healing that way. I didn't feature dance as healing in depth in any of my episodes, but for future episodes, I would love to do that. I know women in Calcutta who are using dance as a form of healing for women who've experienced human trafficking or violence or rape, and really using that to get into the body and to heal. And I think those are such beautiful stories to share and really highlight how powerful dance can be.

Totally. And another interesting thing about ecstatic dance is, like, a lot of times dancers are the worst at ecstatic dance. Like, I remember my first ecstatic dance in Bali. I'm, like, doing dance moves, you know, I'm, like, practicing choreography. And that's not what it's all about because I was just so used to dancing to look good or, like, in front of my mirror or something. And then when I could really get there, I mean, I went to Bali for yoga and I stayed because of the ecstatic dance, because it was so. It was so healing. It helped me more than anything. Like, there was so much shit going on in my life, and I would just, literally just dance the, like, rage and pain and confusion and sadness and chaos and happiness and joy and excitement. And it was like, all just so fluid and interconnected. And I don't feel like I get to those same levels when I'm just dancing on my own, because it's other people's energy that's so contagious. And when you see someone, like, fully in their experience, like, even if they're on the floor convulsing, you're like. You just feel that, and that makes you go even deeper in.

It's so true. Yeah. Ecstatic dance, especially in Bali, it feels like a rainstorm, like a tropical rainstorm, and you just, like. It's like cleansing. Even if after you dance and you're covered in sweats, you actually do feel drenched. It just feels like something has left your body. You've released the unneeded and you walk out, like, floating. And, God, if everyone did that, I think we would just have so much less stress and anxiety and sense of loneliness and depression. Like all of these things. I think when we get and shake our bodies and let out the sweat and roll on the floor and have no shame and kick our legs and just move our hips and throw ourselves around or do things that are really small like whatever, just like having that mind body connection. It's so beautiful. I love that. No excited dance is really special. I'm heading to Bali on Tuesday. I'm gonna do a presentation on We Speak Dance Netflix as part of the Bali Spirit Festival's opening ceremony. So all the talent from that episode we're bringing together to perform on the opening night and we'll be screening the Bali episode there and then I'll do a dance workshop.

Love it.

I usually teach house dancing, which is an old school form of dance. It's like a lot of footwork and upper body and it evolved out of hip hop, but it's like has kind of more of a soulful and electronic music foundation to it. And I learned that in New York in like the nightlife. And it's a culmination of so many different styles of dance. So I'll probably end up teaching some house dancing. But I'm also organizing dances protest around the world. So on the We Speak Dance Instagram, I've asked dancers from around the world to submit 1 minute videos and post them dancing for a social cause of their choice. So we have like 13 year old girls in Austria dancing to end the pussy grabbing culture of the President Trump. We have one of the best hip hop dancers in the UK dancing to end slavery in Libya and really any social cause that you can imagine, we have people dancing to it and dedicating their dance to it. And that's one of my goals, is to inspire artists, dancers, musicians, people who just love movement, to connect their movement to something bigger than themselves. I think sometimes with our art it just kind of begins and ends with us and that's great. Like it's good, like express yourself, like feel your creative energy, feel alive. I think we can go further and, and that's my goal with this series. And the kind of the movement that I want to build is to really activate people in their art form, whatever that is, if it's poetry, dance, music, painting, and then take that a step further, like share that in a way, in a new way with your community and share it for a cause that you care about. And I think that that's just kind of one step in the right direction to get to Connect us deeper and maybe even spark a little revolution, who knows?

Totally. I'm with it. So I would love to ask you, you know, you're so ambitious, you're an entrepreneur, you got your show on Netflix, which is like the biggest accomplishment. So I would love to know more about for people who are interested in having their own shows. What does that process even look like?

Woo. Yeah, that's the story. Yeah. So like traditionally when people go out to sell a TV show in Hollywood, they come with their paper pitch. You know, they have their one one page document with the description of their show and maybe they have a trailer if they're ambitious. People don't usually show up with like a whole show already filmed. And my whole approach was, I'm gonna make this show and it's gonna be like a fast moving train and you can get on it and you're just gonna miss it. So in all my pitch meetings, I just kept filming. No one was picking up my show. So I was just like, I'm just gonna keep filming it until someone does. So by the time I got to Netflix, I had already filmed in five countries. I filmed in Nigeria, in Ghana, in Kenya, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, Cuba, oh, six times.

And you produced it, wrote the scripts, got everyone organized all yourself.

So that's kind of cool. Like when I first started filming, it was kind of free flow in Kenya. I was very well connected, so I was able to get access to the best dancers in the country. We filmed on top of a helipad overlooking the whole city with the best break dancers. And then we filmed Maasai traditional dancers dancing to kill the lion, the circumcision dance. And I would teach them hip hop and they'd teach me their traditional moves. And so Kenya was just like. I showed up with a camera guy. It was my first episode, there was no plans and we just went out. One camera guy filmed. Yeah, we just went, filmed everywhere. And then it got, it changed. Like I learned a lot from that first episode. And then my friend who's a Nigerian prince, invested in the show and we filmed in Nigeria and Ghana. And with that we added like a proper team. We brought in a guy from National Geographic and we did some pre production. So we looked for talent and asked people their stories. So there was, it was much more of a professional process behind that. And so there's a whole vast array of ways that I'd film. I do love really filming real reality TV where you just show up and like, whatever happens, there's something so organic and raw about Getting that kind of content. But other times too, having that preparation and those pre interviews and showing up, like in Vietnam, like, all of our talent was already set up. You know, these people were recommended as some of the best dancers. Interesting stories fell into the themes that we were interested in. So how do you find that a lot? Through social media, through friends. I'm part of lots of networks that have presence globally of, like, entrepreneurs and artists. So just kind of like it's always that third person that you get to that connects you to the talent that you want. So it'll be like a producer, a filmmaker, maybe a club owner. And then three people recommend the same person, and you're like, okay, cool, I'll interview that person and see how that goes. But the process has changed a lot. When I went and filmed out these, filmed these five new episodes for Netflix, I could have given them the older episodes that I'd already shot over the years, but I said, no, this is really an opportunity for me to even fine tune this show further and go deeper and take what I've learned in these other cities. And I think the format started to really come together of what this was. It's really about politics, about dance and dances, protest dance as prayer dance, as women's rights. Being more methodical about bringing in those concepts and those themes throughout each episode. In the beginning, it was kind of like whatever came in was great. Now it's really evolved to be a pretty strong voice for women's rights, LGBTQ rights, globalization, identity politics, even economics or elections. Like, I want people to, after watching an episode, to learn a little bit about that country in a fast multiplicity of ways. And dance being the common thread. So that that kind of social, political element was really strengthened. And how to do that. Having the experience in these five countries beforehand really helped inform how to do that in the next places. But still, even in the last five episodes on Netflix, there's definitely many acts that were not planned. Like that wedding. We really were invited to that wedding 20 minutes before going in Lebanon. That was real.

And they let you bring in camera people?

Yeah, yeah, they let us bring in camera people. And they were wonderful. Yeah. And what else was a surprise? Oh, the electro dancer in Paris who's like one of the top dancers. We were filming something else and he was there, and someone just mentioned, hey, that guy's an awesome electro dancer. And I was like, hey, do you mind if we film you for five minutes? It ended up being a three hour session.

That's the club that you.

You guys went to he does this electrodance where he like uses his hands and then afterwards there's a battle, the beat dance battle, and he gets like the top four, Right.

So.

And it was by chance that the same guy we featured on Accident for Electro Dance shows up to this hip hop battle the next day and makes it to the final four. So, you know, you can't plan for these or you can, you can pay people, but no, we want, we really want to get the culture. We want to really get the. The stories. And sometimes those best stories you cannot plan for. So I'd say some of our favorite characters and talent that we featured was just from luck and like through many friends of friends or many dancers along the way down. Yeah. So the process has evolved a lot. There's not one way of doing this. But I do think with all of these new content platforms from your hulus, your Amazons, your Netflix, if you want to tell a story and you want to tell it bad enough, go out and film it. The camera equipment is getting a lot more affordable. If your idea is big enough, go out and talk to people who make film. Maybe they'll collaborate with you. I think that's really important is the collaboration is get obsessed with an idea. If there's an idea that's keeping you up at night and you want to go tell that story in any which way, go try to find something to go on that crazy adventure with you, and I promise you it will be worth it.

I love that. And it also takes a level of bravery from your own part to go up to these dancers and hip hop artists and stuff and be like, hey, yeah, I want to interview you and feature you on my show. When you don't know if the show's ever going to be aired, you don't have anyone backing you. You're just so confident in yourself that you get all of these people who have a million things to do to be like, oh, yeah, let me give you my time and show you.

That's so true. Yeah. Like in the last five cities, we could say, oh, hey, this is going to go on Netflix. But the first five cities, like when I went to Nigeria and danced with Femi Kuti on stage at the shrine, which was like, would be my childhood dream I never thought would be possible. We didn't have Netflix yet. And the Fela family believed in what we were doing. And they said, yeah, gosh, dance has not been given a voice. Music has. And dance has been divorced from music, and you need to unite it. And yes, we'll be part of this. And to have people believe in just the idea, I think there's something even more magical about that because when it's TV networks coming in and saying, oh, we're gonna do this big dance show, it's usually commercial, it's usually all about a competition. And the soul of the dance is missing. So being able to meet people and just the concept alone is inspiring enough. And there isn't big money attached, there isn't big fame attached, but people just want to be part of your vision. You know that that idea is worthwhile. You know that idea is bigger than yourself. And it could be a legendary idea, something that can live on for generations, that's relevant. And I think that's when you're sitting on something really exciting, is when it doesn't matter where you are in the world, people will get excited to be part of your project.

I love that. So you go out to all those cities, you film the show, and then what is the next step to getting someone to back you?

Yeah, I think my content just kept getting better. So like my Kenya episode was like really cute, but it was really novice. Then Nigeria, like I had Jay Z's production company edit the Nigeria episode. And then after that I had even other editors come back and re edit it again to match my new episodes. So that took three edits of different people. So a lot of it is in the shooting. But if you have great photographers and DPs, then it's about the storyboarding and the storyline and getting those themes and those additional layers of the story in there and the history and like. And the editing. The editing is so important. So the real good editors do cost a bit of money. And that's kind of where a show can be. A good show versus a really out of this world show is in the storytelling, which a huge part of it is the editing. So I think I started to just invest a lot more in producing myself, hiring other great producers and storylining and getting really badass editors on board. So you can always improve it. You can always improve your content. And that's the thing, I think once you start creating content, you can just. It can be very minimal, like really basic content, not high production value. But if you have a good story, people still might be really engaged and watch. And if you just keep going for the good stories, eventually I think you can teach yourself how to increase the production value and convince other people to get on board. And you just need to. One little piece of content can attract an army of 100 people to help you for future projects. My trailer, I've had maybe 10 different versions of the trailer for We Speak Dance and I never shared it publicly. And then this last trailer I shared had 700,000 views with no marketing behind it on my personal Facebook page. And it's because I was like, oh, now it's ready to share. Now it's at the level where this is the highest version of this format. This is what this show is meant to be and embody and this does the best visual storytelling of that. But it took a long time for it to get there. I've been working on this project for three years. So yeah, it took a lot of work.

Yeah, well, I think it's just, you know, for everyone listening, it's like you had an idea for something but then you actually created it, you actually went through with it and you actually not only went through with it, but then continued to improve upon it. Improve upon it, improve upon it 10 times. You know, like, whereas most of us, we would like film something, be like, oh, whatever, it's good enough, and then doesn't do well, we're like, oh, I guess the idea didn't stick. Whereas you're like, I'm going to make sure this idea stick. And the vision that you had for it is a high caliber first class television show on the Premiere Network. And as a girl starting by herself, obviously your first, second, third, fourth round, tenth round wasn't that. But you kept on going and recreating until it was. So for people listening, this is the level of grit that it takes to create it. Because I think a lot of it is we're like, oh, I have a great idea for a show. It's like, yeah, everyone can have a great idea for a show, but it's the execution. It's 99% of it.

Totally. And I think it's like if you care about something enough, just start, just start somewhere. And it's gonna be crappy in the beginning, it's not gonna be high quality. There's no way you're gonna become an A level storyteller in one, in one shoot. But after 10 shoots or 20 shoots, then maybe you might start getting there and you might surprise yourself. And if the idea has legs, you really can convince people to collaborate. I think that's the key thing is start somewhere, get scrappy. People will respect you for showing up with a bad episode. But as long as you put it together and there's some story in there and people feel something, people were laughing and crying in my first episode, even the quality wasn't so good. People felt it. And I think that's the key is like getting to the root and get that good story, get those good characters, have that higher purpose of what you're trying to tell in your stories. And it'll happen. Just keep going at it and keep. Trial and error is huge. It's just like practicing for anything. Practicing a dance move. You don't get it the first time you go try it 20, 30, 100 times and then all of a sudden you're kicking your leg up to your head. Yeah, it's not easy to do, but you can do it. And I think that's very much what. I kind of use some of my skills as a dancer, learning new dance moves in the way I learned about film and just going at it and attacking it and let me just fall like I'm gonna dance across the floor and try five turns instead of three turns today. And that's what I did in film. Like, ooh, zero experience in film. Well, let me just jump in, get a camera guy and let's go shoot and see what happens. And you learn that way. You learn real fast.

Totally. And I think we were talking about how you. He would go to these film festivals and just start talking to random people. Be like, oh, hey, I have this show.

Oh, yeah. I'm like the ultimate hustler and I'm not afraid to talk to anyone. So, yeah, going to places where people want to buy what you're producing. So I went to big TV conferences and talked to the head of CNN and HBO and Fox and A and E. And I was like, hey, I'm doing this project. And they're like, great, that's nice. Yeah. To the point where then they were like, oh, wow, okay, your show's on Netflix. Great. Well, what are you doing next? So the conversation has really shifted away from network executives being like, stop harassing me to, oh, wonderful, what's next? How can we get involved? So you just have to start somewhere. And I think people do appreciate, regardless of how high level they are, if you show up with your little one minute trailer, and even if it's crappy, they'll give you feedback and then you go back and make it better the next time. And they will remember you. The people who say no to you will remember you with your scrappy projects and they will be cheering for you because they know what it takes to get from really nothing to building out your dream.

Totally. And you know, a lot of people are probably like, oh, well, you know, I'm not the kind of person to talk to a stranger or like, oh, I'm just not, you know, I'm more of an introvert. But it's like, you know, I'm sure you would rather stay at home and not have to make these awkward conversations, but you knew for your dream to come true, you had to. And I think that, you know, people. People want to work with others who've invested and done everything themselves, Right? It's like once you got your show on Netflix, everyone's like, oh, yeah, let's collaborate now. And I have felt the same way. Once I got my book published by Penguin, everyone's like, wants to be my friend. But before, they were like, oh, best of luck, you know?

Yes, yes. And you remember that. You remember the people who. And I called. I personally called many people, and I said, thank you for your words of encouragement and support and connections that you made before I made it like, before the show was a reality before, because those people really helped me keep going. Those friends that, like, when I wasn't succeeding, they were the ones being like, how can I help you now versus when you are succeeding, the people. And everyone shows up and they're like, we all want to be part of it. Great. It's interesting. It's good to pay attention to who's there and who's supporting throughout the hard times. And not everyone is going to be as outgoing and extroverted and want to go pitch to the CEOs of whatever companies to raise money or to invest in what you're doing. Sometimes it's about finding that co founder, that partner, where you complement each other. So maybe one of you is more techy and the other one is more outgoing and we're the face of it. And it was kind of lonely, you know, at times doing this on my own, and my team was immensely helpful, but it was very much me going out and selling. And for me, like, future projects, I definitely would always love to have a co founder to work on the next thing. So I do recommend, if you feel like you have a great idea, like, maybe team up with somebody who's really good at selling. If that's not your number one thing, you have to really also protect your creativity in your art form. Like, doing so much business around your art form can make you kind of hate it too. So it's always that balance of. Elizabeth Gilbert talks about that, about protecting your creativity and not demanding money from it all the time.

Right.

It's a real sensitivity. So I've always Had to do that with this project of like, this is my passion and I have to love it and nurture it like a baby and not be mad at it when it doesn't. It doesn't deliver what I want right away.

Right.

It takes time.

Totally. It totally does. And, you know, and as you grow, then you can have agents and managers and people like that who do the business negotiation side so you can focus on the actual creation of it.

Exactly.

So tell us what is next for you?

Yeah. So I do have these wonderful agents now working with me and we're going out and pitching season two. So we're. Yeah, we're looking for a home for it. It could be Netflix or it could be somewhere else. We're figuring out where the best place will be for We Speak Dance to grow. Yeah. And I do want this to be a movement. I don't want it to just be a show. I want it to have events and create arts education for young people around the world who don't have access to that.

And you guys just did an event on Venice Pier.

Yeah, we have these fun pop up renegade parties that we did. We did one on the Venice Pier and like hundreds of people came out and Staro, who's one of our music supervisors on We Speak Dance, a Grammy nominated artist, he DJed the party and like people couldn't not dance. It was just so much fun and that gives me so much happiness. Strangers dancing together. We almost broke that pier. And that's what life's about is like celebrating and jumping and dancing and yeah, that was a really special moment. So I want to put on a lot more fun events as well. And I'll keep you posted.

I love it. So where can we keep up with your events and season two and watch your show and connect with you for sure.

Well, like my personal account on Instagram is where I'll be sharing my updates. Vandanaheart V A N D A N A H A R T looks like Vandana. And then we speakdance. Also on Instagram and Facebook is where we'll be doing larger announcements about season two and future episodes. And we Speak dance events. So those are the two great places to keep up to date.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us, your dance story, encouraging all of us to move our bodies and also follow our dreams. And we all really acknowledge you for just like the level of work and dedication that it put to taking this idea and really bringing it to fruition. I just from speaking with you, I already know how hard the journey is. And. And I see so much of myself in you and you and me so totally feel you, sister. And I love how you're bringing this badass energy into taking something so beautiful into the world. So thank you for sharing this all and for sharing it with the highest health podcast community.

Also, thank you so much for having me. And you are such a light and inspiration for women. And even just hanging out with you, dancing with you, going to lunch with you, I always feel so much energy and like, activate. I'm like, yeah, I can do it. Because there are days where I'm like, oh, I don't know what's going on. But people like you really help artists and creatives and people fighting for their higher purpose to keep going. So thank you so much for sharing that with me and sharing that with all of your audience. And yeah, you are a light and you are a force to be reckoned with and it's just such a pleasure to meet you.

Oh, thank you so much.

I just want to dance, dance, dance, dance, dance, dance.

Do you guys want to get up and dance now?

I know I for sure do. Beautiful thing about dance is you don't need to go to a dance class.

Studio club, you don't have to go anywhere.

Just crank up the music. Like, you know, even the outro music of this podcast, just start jamming out to it. You could do a little belly dance, some mudras, whatever you feel and just do it. Loved it so much. Be sure to check out We Speak Dance on Netflix. It's an incredible docu series. And follow Vandana Hart on her Instagram follow We Speak Dance. They post amazing global dance videos. I love seeing what's going on in Ghana and in Vietnam and all these places that, you know, we don't get to see on an everyday basis, but we get to see them really break it down. So check her out. And I'm so happy that you guys listened to this episode and if you loved this episode and you'd like a little gift for reviewing it, I would love to send you the first half of my unreleased book. It's called Eat right for your mind body type. It is not available for sale anywhere, never will, because now it is Eat Right for your mind body type. 12 week guided program infusing Ayurveda with modern nutritional science. So as a free, free gift for reviewing this episode in the itunes store, you just head over to itunes, on your phone, on your computer, click, write a review, write a nice review, take a screenshot of it and email it over to me before you hit submit. My email is Sahara S A H A R aattfeelfresh.com and I will send you back the first half of my unreleased book Eat right for your mind body type. I hope you loved this episode and.

I'll see you on the next one.

Namaste Sa.