118: Overcoming Addiction Holistically with Luke Storey

Namaste, it's Sahara Rose. And welcome back to the Highest Self podcast, a place where we discuss what makes you your soul's highest evolvement. This episode is brought to you by Uveda. Uvada is a modernized ayurvedic supplement company that takes certain issues that we have, such as mood joints, immunity, digestion, and creates these custom little packets exactly for us, infusing ancient Ayurvedic herbs with modern vitamins and minerals. I take the mood formula daily. It is great if you work a stressful job, had adrenal fatigue, ever suffer from anxiety or even depression, and it really heals you from a fundamental and holistic level. So if you want to try it out, head over to Uvada. Y-O-U-V-E-A.com, use the code Sahara and you'll receive 35% off your first order. And they now ship to almost every country globally. So check it out. If you live internationally, they may be shipping to your country too. And they just added India, guys. This episode is also brought to you by four Sigmatic. Four Sigmatic is an incredible mushroom elixir company. I proudly drink their elixirs every single day. My favorite is their chai mix. It is insanely delicious. I quit chocolate cold turkey and what helped me was drinking this chai mix every day. And best of all, they use stevia to sweeten it. And there's no sugars like the chai lattes you'll find at Starbucks or wherever else. And the mushrooms are really good for balancing your hormones, helping heal adrenal fatigue, healing your body on an adaptogenic level. So adaptogens really kind of relate to what your body needs. So if you are high stress, it will bring you down. If you need more energy, it will bring you up. And that's what's so amazing about adaptogens. They adapt to your body. Mushrooms, medicinal mushrooms have a lot of adaptogenic properties so you can head over to their website, 4sigmatic.com F O U R S I G M A T-I C.com Sahara I have a little shop up there with my favorite four Sigmatic products so you can try it out. And you can also get 15% off any four sigmatic product using the code Sahara. I'm stoked to announce that my book, Eat Feel Fresh, a plant based ayurvedic cookbook, is now available for pre order on Amazon, Barnes and Nobles, Target, Walmart, wherever books are sold. This is my book, baby. I went to India to shoot all of the photography. It is alkaline, it is refreshing, it is global. I believe that Ayurveda takes many shapes and forms because it is a living science and it's time for Ayurveda to open its doors to different countries, ways of eating different ingredients, and of course making it plant based. So many vegans out there there who have wanted to practice Ayurveda but have shied away because of the amount of ghee and dairy can now experience Ayurveda. So I'm so excited for Eat, Feel Fresh to be out. You can order it, Amazon, Barnes and Nobles, wherever books are sold. And I will have some pre order bonuses including signed book plates, bookmarks, webinars, all sorts of stuff. So stay tuned for that. All you have to do is show me your receipt and I will be sharing with you all of the bonuses I have in store for you. This episode with Luke's story is so incredible and we ended up speaking for over two hours. So I've broken it up into two episodes. This one is about his journey of overcoming addiction naturally. And I'm talking many, many types of addictions that he was able to heal. And the second one is going to be about where he is right now, his biohacking. And we really nerd out specifically on how to choose the best type of water for you. So if you're not aware of Luke's story, he is an incredible, incredible being. I've been on his podcast, the Lifestylist podcast, and his story in a nutshell, which we're going to dive deep into in this episode, is he grew up in a kind of restrictive school upbringing and he became addicted to many different types of drugs, from cocaine to heroin to crack. And he dealt with these addictions and was finally able to come off of them. And he ended up traveling to India, getting into meditation, which eventually led to a spiritual journey. He's now practicing Kundalini yoga. And he's very, very passionate about health and healing. And it's amazing to have someone like Luke on this episode because he's really been on both sides. I mean, I don't know anyone who's more like obsessed, obsessed with health than Luke at this point, which is why I love him so much because he's like such a passionate person about this subject. But he's also lived the total life opposite to health of, you know, like he talks about in this episode, like being in alleys and like doing drugs there with homeless people. And he became addicted to alcohol. He started drinking and smoking when he was like less than a teenager. So he's really been on both sides of the spectrum, and it's amazing to see how he's really turned his life around. And it's so inspiring, because whether you've dealt with addiction, we all know someone who has. And it's something that is so commonplace because as a society, we are lacking in something. When you become addicted to a substance, a food, an emotion, a person, it's because you're lacking somewhere else in your life. And we talk about that in this episode of what was really fueling this addiction. It was really his need to feel something, to feel alive, which he's now able to do through this holistic lifestyle of his. And it's such a beautiful conversation, and you'll get so many tidbits, whether it's for yourself or for someone that you know in your life. Maybe you can have them listen to this episode and hearing Luke's story will inspire them to transform their life as well. And it's just I love seeing someone who's taken themselves out of the dump and is now sharing others. He's the true epitome of making your mess your message. And he is a voice for the sect that we don't hear about the drug addicts, we don't hear about the people who became alcoholics when they were, you know, I think he said, 11 or 12 years old. We don't hear from them that often because we're in this whole other world. And he bridges the gap between both, which is so, so, so powerful. So I'm so excited and honored to have Luke's story over here on the Highest Self podcast. So welcome, Luke. It's so nice to have you here on the Highest Self podcast.

Oh, it's great to be here. What a great location, too. This is my first ocean view podcast recording out of a couple hundred. So this is amazing. Cool.

So the first question I'm going to ask you, that I ask everyone, is, what makes you your highest self?

What makes me my most highest self is when I'm honest in who I am, with myself, to myself, and outward facing toward others. I think just being as real and as authentic as I can makes me feel in my most true self.

Hmm.

It's sort of like wanting to be one's highest self is not that I have to go discover that. It's more like, what are the things that are preventing me from just allowing that to shine through.

Absolutely, yeah. And you have experienced so much in your life. You're a biohacker, you're a meditation teacher. You're celebrity, fashion stylist, so many things. You're a musician, but where you came from is so different. So can you share with us a little bit about your journey and how you got to where you are today?

Sure, yeah. I do have a strange. The more that I tell it and other people react to it, I realize.

And you're like, wait, this is.

It's a little unique, you know, but you know how it is just when you live your life subjectively, it's just, you know, it's just your story and you don't really think about it. You're just looking for me. I'm always looking at the next goal or the next thing that I'm working on. But where I come from, in a summarized version as I can, is I'm originally from Colorado. I was born in Aspen and then parents divorced when I was really young. So I didn't really have traditional family structure. Kind of classic 70s divorced parents kind of situation. So my mom took me to Northern California, which is where I lived most of my life. And due to a number of different circumstances when I was a kid, just environment and family dynamics and things like that, I was pretty dysfunctional and toxic in the areas in which I lived. There were a lot of drugs and things like that, and there was abuse and trauma when I was a kid. So in reaction to environmental stimuli and just the things that I was experiencing that I was unable to process, I got really into drugs and crime and just started down a really negative path. Had some legal issues. And by a mandate of the court of Pitkin County, Colorado, where I was arrested as a teenager, I was forced to go somewhere and kind of get out of the state or I was gonna be locked up until I was 18. So I would have been 14 to 18. And that terrified me. So I agreed to go to this boarding school. And at this boarding school, although it was, it's called Rocky Mountain Academy, I've talked about it on a lot of shows, so forgive me if there's audience overlap with some of the others. When you repeat the same story over and over again, it feels like, oh, God, I just said this yesterday. But there's probably totally different people hearing it. So I went to this place and it was sort of a cult like environment. There was a lot of weird practices there that were unorthodox and I think experimental from a psychotherapeutical point of view. There were sort of lay therapists there employed as facilitators of group therapy and staff members and teachers and stuff. So there wasn't really a curriculum in terms of traditional education, all about interpersonal development and helping us troubled kids overcome what it was that got us into trouble. So you check in and they cut all your hair off, you can't wear concert shirts anymore. They sort of strip your identity and made everyone just kind of preppy. So I went in there and got effectively brainwashed for two years and that really turned things around for me. But then when I got out in terms of crime and that kind of stuff. But when I got out, I just eventually fell back into drugs. And then I moved to Hollywood when I was 19 and had tons of fun rolling in the rock and roll sort of drug underground of Hollywood. And I did that from 19 to 26. But I was a musician, so I was always very creative and wanted to pursue that when I moved here. But the drugs just kind of encroached on my life more and more to the point where I became just completely able to function or have any kind of employment. Even dealing drugs was not possible towards the end of that period. So it's like as they say in recovery, it was fun, fun with problems, then just problems. And that time, even though I was living a very self destructive lifestyle I was pursuing because I felt that emptiness and I knew that the means by which I was fulfilling that void were not only temporary, but that the consequences and side effects of that method of living were finite and that it was going to come crashing down on me at some point. So I did something really wise. I think I preemptively started to work on myself a bit, even though I was still just so lost and insane. And so I started reading spiritual books and drinking green juice and doing the early sort of health trends in the early 90s, even while I was a complete raging drug addict mental patient. Not to be disparaging against mental patients, but you have to be careful what you say in today's PC culture. I keep it pretty real, but I used to say I was retarded or something and people say, oh, you can't say that anymore. I said, okay, I'm sorry. I just meant I was developed developmentally retarded, which was true. So what happened was at 26 I hit this spiritual and existential bottom, you know, just the classic sort of hero's journey. And I feel like I pulled the plug right at the end, before things were really going to go downhill in terms of, you know, getting HIV or going to prison for an extended period of time, or getting beat up, or the things that happen when you're inactive of user, you know. So I managed to kind of keep together some semblance of a life. I had a little apartment and I could just barely keep myself away from being homeless. But it was about to all come really crashing down. So I checked myself into a treatment center and I started to pray and meditate and really apply spiritual principles to my life in a meaningful way. And the beginning of this process, which has been 21 years since I've been stone cold sober and really diving deep into all things from herbalism, to what we call biohacking, to every form of meditation therapy, any modality that I've ever heard of that improves your life on a body, you know, body, mind, or spirit level, I've tried. So the middle and end of the story, or at least up to date of the story, is that I got sober and quickly realized that there were a lot more things than I needed to work on. I sort of was like many addicts and alcoholics that get sober, they pop out of that and think, cool, now I'm just gonna be a great person, have wonderful relationships, fall in love, make money, get a job, be famous, and live happily ever after. And then all of the sort of underlying root causes of your wanting to escape start to surface. And then it's like, oh, man, now the real work begins. So during that process of recovery and all that that I was working on the inside, I somehow randomly ended up in the fashion industry. Not that randomly. I mean, I had a friend that was a big stylist. I got sober. I was house sitting for her. She came back in town from being on tour with Tina Turner and then booked Aerosmith as a client. And so I was this newly sober kid in my late 20s and, you know, I could barely be a waiter. I mean, I was really not all there mentally and emotionally. I was very unstable and just a basket case, even sober. But I got this job working for Aerosmith. And so that, like catapulted me into the entertainment and fashion industry and even music industry to a degree, and then kept playing music. And I ended up becoming a full time assistant stylist. So I worked for all these big stylists and doing every kind of photo shoot, video commercial imaginable under all these big stylists. And then after a few years of that, I'm still working on myself and going to India and doing all this stuff. That eventually branched out on my own and became quite successful doing that to the degree that in 2008, I made a decision to start a school called School of Style because I realized that there was a real sort of void in education in terms of fashion. Fashion schools, they didn't have a trade school approach to that specific niche within the fashion industry. So I saw that that was, you know, there was a void there and there was a need for it. And then also I had relationships and a body of work experience of 10 years at that point. So I started this school. It was my first entrepreneurial venture and I knew nothing about business. I had no education, no high school diploma, just I have an idea and a one page website and a body of knowledge and I launched that and I still run that business today.

Amazing.

Nine years later. Yeah. And so that's been really such a gift because it's allowed me security to go pursue the things that I'm doing now, such as podcasting and teaching meditation and the yoga and all the stuff that I'm into now. So essentially, I guess in summary, I'm just someone who was put in a position by luck, fate, karma, destiny, to be in a lot of pain and to really seek with great dedication and enthusiasm all things which make one whole and well, and then had that as a double life sort of for a long time while I was playing Mr. Fashion and playing in bands. And if you looked at me, you'd be like, oh, this guy's totally ego Hollywood, you know, I mean, even now I can walk around in a leather jacket. I mean, I still have my edge. But no one really knew, except my friends, that I'm like diving into meditation and sound baths and float tanks and all the health stuff and all these practices to improve one's life. And then as I saw that kind of became a thing people were interested in. I was motivated to start my podcast a year and a half ago and make God. It sounds so cheesy, but to make a brand out of what I've learned and the relationships that I've formed in this industry. So health and wellness is kind of of snuck up on me as a thing. I'm like, this is just what everyone does. I've been doing it for so long. And then I'm realizing now, like, oh, wow, I'm kind of an OG to a lot of younger people like you. I get interviewed and they're like, oh, you know, so much stuff I do. This is just my day to day thing. But I've sort of grown to appreciate my experience and the things that I've learned over the years now. So now I'm really enjoying having the opportunity to do things like this where I get to share that and do some traveling and speaking and all that stuff. So it's sort of full circle into getting more in alignment with my heart's desire and my true passion, which is sharing this type of information.

Now, a lot of people listening probably have dealt with addictions in the past or are dealing with them now. What was really helpful for you both from an herbal perspective and also from a lifestyle and mental perspective to just kind of shift that addiction to something more healthy?

Well, that's the thing. It's a great question. It's kind of a double edged sword, you know, because if you're a person that has the epigenetic wiring that I have, I'm just.

And you're very vata. Do you know about the Ayurvedic doshas?

You know, I vaguely familiar.

Super vata.

Really? Okay.

The shape of your face, your life story. I'm like vata.

All right, good. I'm gonna ask you some more questions about that and I'm gonna interview on my show as you know. So, yeah, I've done one show on Ayurveda, but we ended up kind of drifting. It was very non linear. So I. I'd like to do more focused work on that. So. A note to self. I think really for me, there's one thing that motivates someone and that is like pain and suffering. But then there's a certain point where you cross this bridge and the rewards of the practices start to fulfill themselves, you know. And so in the beginning of addiction recovery, that obsession that was totally on, it's weird, like when you're addicted, that obsession that you have that I still have, I'm totally obsessive still. It's just. It's more on things that enrich my lives and the lives of others. But when you're in the throes of addiction, it looks from the outside like you're obsessed with self destruction and killing yourself. But really it's just an addict's best effort to preserve their life and their sense of well being and their ability to just stay on the planet and not off themselves, basically. So it's like you're obsessed with getting drugs, doing the drugs. The whole culture, the whole underground kind of energy field of addiction. If you're on the drug side of it, alcohol is a little bit different.

And in a way it's like your soul knew that there was something higher to experience on this earthly plane and you were just seeking that and that was just the easiest form that you could experience.

Exactly, exactly. There's a famous letter that Carl Jung wrote to Bill Wilson, who's the founder of Alcoholics and. Or the co founder of Alcoholics Anonymous and the 12 step movement. He wrote the 12 steps, you know, which have totally altered our culture worldwide. A lot of people, I don't think, realize the impact of that teaching system. It's just a spiritual system is all it is. It's very basic. That's what makes it work. But I don't think people have realized how profound that was. But one of the reasons that it worked so well for people with addictions, that model was characterized by Carl Jung in a letter he wrote to Bill Wilson, because Bill Wilson was influenced by him. There's all, you know, historical context there that we don't need to go into. But Phil Wilson felt a sense of gratitude to Carl Jung, sent him a letter in Austria, wherever he was. Carl Jung answers the letter. And it's in the book Alcoholics Anonymous, which is referred to as the Big Book. It's kind of the mothership where all the 12 step programs originate from. Of course, started out to help alcoholics. What Carl Jung said, which was so brilliant, is he said, in his view, all alcoholics, or we could say addicts, have a yearning for God. And it really goes into the word spirits, you know, which we call, you know, hard liquor spirits, espiritu. There's all this Latin root to that. And so when you get drunk, you lose your ego, in a sense.

Totally.

Yeah. You lose the personalities that you've built up consciously and subconsciously. And you feel certain people.

Rumi writes poems about being drunk with wine and being in love with God.

Right.

And that was just part of Sufism.

Yeah, exactly. So you're right in that we. I, and I think I can speak for a lot of people that are wired like me. We have this inner yearning where there's something missing. There's a real void there and a deep sense of isolation and loneliness. I think that's the underlying. After all these years, I know I've been very active in recovery and I've worked with a lot of people. And it's something I've spent a lot of time on because I. Because it's valuable to me to be able to maintain my sobriety, obviously, or maybe not obviously. Anyone that's been on the other side of addiction knows, like, once you get it, man, you really want to hang onto it. So I've worked hard. But really what it is is just we all have this sense of separation and isolation and this inability to really connect with other people in a meaningful way. It's oftentimes the result of trauma, but sometimes not. I mean, I meet a lot of people that, that had a pretty healthy, uneventful childhood and they're the worst junkies you've ever met.

Do you think it's just something in your DNA?

I really do. I think it's a karmic thing and maybe past life that it's a choice that one can make. If you want to really make spiritual progress fast, become an alcoholic. So I say like, if someone's like, I don't know, I kind of eat poorly and I smoke here and there and I think I drink a little too much. I'm always like, man, get a drug habit, get to the point, get it over with. If you want a real wake up call, ruin your life. And that sort of puts you in a position where you're painted into a corner and the only way to run is like, you look at your options and they're rehab, prison, death, or find God. Right, so what are you gonna pick? What's funny about it is a lot of alcoholics still pick prison and death because the idea of God is so abhorrent to them because of the preconceived ideas they have about it or their upbringing that is preventing them from exploring that in a new, more broad, open minded way.

And I think just looking into the shadows can be so painful. Like here in downtown Santa Monica, you see a lot of homeless people, big crack epidemic. And I see a lot of times they're like in a fight with no one, but they're so angry and sometimes they're crying and they're screaming and I'm just wondering like, is it something that maybe they're reliving from their childhood or something that they're imagining? But obviously there's this sadness and rage inside of them that like just going deep into that is probably too painful. Like you'd rather just die.

Yeah, I think that's where a lot of the neurosis that we experience comes from, is the repression and suppression, conscious or otherwise, of trauma. You know, and it's weird because as I look more deeply into trauma, it doesn't necessarily mean that, you know, every night at dinner your dad backhanded you across the table.

It could be.

Sometimes trauma is more subtle and it's in the form of neglect or abandonment, you know, So I do I really look at people like that or that are so obviously in that psychic pain. I look at that too and it's, I Think that all human beings suffer to the degree that a screaming homeless person does. It's just on a spectrum, you know, and some of it's. The voice is a little quieter within some of us, and some of it's louder. And some of us have more of an ability to mask that voice and just internalize it. And some of us are aggressive and hostile toward other people as a means by which to get that out. But point is, if you've experienced trauma at whatever level, that shit's coming out in some sort of obsession, compulsion, compulsion. There's outbursts of anger, whatever it is, or internalized self flatulation or cutting or nail biting or deviant behavior. Addiction. I meet very few people that just pop out in this lifetime and they're sort of cooked and they're doing great and happy and balanced. And there's always something to work on, of course. I just think like in terms of what makes someone an alcoholic, there's a karmic propensity there that I believe that we choose to just fast forward a few lifetimes and just bang it out.

Shared a book on that.

The degree. Yeah, I know, right? I know.

Russell Brandt, the enlightened alcoholic. Oh, yeah, that one is what's called.

Have the book yet? It sounds great, but he wrote like kind of a everyday language version of the 12 steps as I understand it. So, yeah, I'll check that out. He taught people. From what I've seen. Again, I have to get the book.

You guys kind of look alike.

You know, it's funny, we've met a few times and we have a lot in common now. He's so famous and he's got his book and I really want to get him on my show.

Yeah, I bumped into him at the airport in India.

Oh, really? How funny.

Yeah, so funny. So another question that I have is, let's say you have a friend, a family member, a lover who's going through an addiction. Can you help that person? Or do you just kind of have to give them space to deal with it themselves?

Oh, my God, that's such a great question. Because addictions have a unique ability to not only damage the person who's afflicted with the addiction's life, but also everyone around them. It's not, you know, maybe not to the same degree, you know, a video game addiction or something like that, or porn or, I don't know, the more innocuous addictions, but the substance addictions that are acute. Crystal meth, crack, coke, heroin, alcohol, the big ones like that, you know, someone's a stoner. You can kind of like learn how to adapt to their stoniness. But when someone's on the path of self destruction, it destroys the whole family, you know, and. And it's really a tragic disease or whatever you want to call it. A lot of people have issues with the labels. To me, it's just a dysfunction of the human psyche. But when someone has it, it's a strange disease model because it doesn't just hurt them, it hurts everyone.

So if, I guess every illness, in a way does, you know, if someone in your family has cancer, that's hurting everyone.

Yeah, well, it is. I mean, there's sadness, but when someone has cancer, they don't steal your TV and go fucking sell it. They don't steal your inheritance, or as we addicts say, roll over you to sister to bang your mother. I mean, when people are driven to the depths of addiction, their whole moral fiber gets destroyed, typically. And that when a human being's moral fiber is destroyed and they have no framework of right and wrong and no introspection and they've lost all sense of reality, that person becomes so unconscious that they're almost like a Tasmanian devil in the family that's just shooting sparks into everyone's fire, you know? Does that make sense?

No, totally.

Just a weird metaphor, but it's like they're lighting. They're like lighting everyone else on fire because they're on fire. But other diseases, yeah, there's sadness and loss and grief involved, but it's not as destructive, typically, I find. So in regard to your question, like, what do you do? I mean, it's a difficult, difficult thing to tackle. And that's why, you know, back to the topic of the 12 steps. I mean, there's multiple programs that are really about having relationships with people. And primarily one called Al Anon, which was formed in the 30s so that the wives of the first male alcoholics that formed that program could all get together and deal with the insanity that they had developed within themselves as a result of being influenced by the alcoholic men in their life life. And then Al Anon has of course, evolved into a worldwide thing. It's not just for 1930s wives, you know, that'll have to go in the kitchen and have something to do while the guys are in the other room having their meeting. That's kind of how it started, right? All the wives, you know, it's very traditional.

But can the wife get involved or is it more just hurting? Well, here's the thing.

So here's the thing. I'm getting there because it's a huge topic. It's a huge, huge, broad question. And I have, you know, a small slice of insight into it, I think, but it's meaningful due to the fact that I've been around for a while, is that sometimes the people close to the addict get so psychologically damaged or even worse. So to a lesser, greater degree, addicted themselves to fixing that person. So that's, you know, that's.

Chills. Yes.

Yeah. That's what the Al Anon thing is. We're like, you're my girlfriend. You drink too much. I don't drink. I'm good. Like, I don't have any vices.

Do you think those people addicted to healing find the addicts? It's just this natural pull.

It is. It's a psychological pull because to me, it's almost another branch of trauma bonding. It's like you recognize that, and it's no accident that most people that end up with an alcoholic or addict partner, one of their parents was. It's definitely cyclical, and it's pretty much a guaranteed pattern unless people have some awareness and they have some help in the form of a therapist or groups or something like that. But in terms of what your question specifically, what should someone do? The strange paradox of addiction is that oftentimes when someone's sort of beyond the point of human help, where no amount of love, dedication, attention, anything from their family or significant other is going to have an impact, it actually flips at a certain point to where anything you do to help that person is actually harming them. This is what we call enabling, right? So it's great for anyone. Like, you can learn so much by watching the show Intervention because you see how this works. You have a teenage kid, right, and he's a crack addict, and he's got a mom that keeps giving him money and keeps paying his rent, keeps paying for the lawyers, keeps paying for the apartment, lets the kid come back home and keep having a place to come, nursing their wounds until they can go out and go on another run. And you see in those situations that the loving, doting mom is actually killing the kid because they're enabling their behavior to continue. So in regard to your question, it's not a black, white answer, like, what can someone do? Do you try to help or not? It depends on whether or not that helping A is ruining your own life and your people. Pleasing and making concessions that are harming you and interrupting your flow and your peace and happiness, or if you can maintain your own ground, be Healthy and not codependent and in a detached sort of loving way, help that person as appropriate. But it takes a lot of self knowledge to know if you hit me up for five bucks, is that helping you or not? If I give you five bucks, it's going to enable you to go buy another beer. Whereas if you say, oh, I spent all my money on beer, friend, dad, boyfriend, husband, whatever, will you give me five bucks to get another one? Well, now I'm just helping you perpetuate that problem.

Right, But I think it's the fear of the parent, of, well, if I don't provide for this kid, he's gonna end up on the streets and who knows what I'm.

I mean, can you imagine? Like, you love your kid and they call you, I'm on the streets, I just got beat up, I just got out of jail. I just need 100 bucks so I can get a hotel room tonight or I'm gonna have to sleep under the freeway. I mean, how do you say no to that?

Exactly.

That's why the families of addicts, it's so crucial that they seek their own recovery so they can develop boundaries.

So do you think a smarter move would be like, I can't help you.

The smarter move is get professional help. You know, it's to go to a therapist that has training and a lot of experience in working with alcoholics, addicts, and the families. Because it's not. I don't think it's something you can navigate on your own. I mean, you have to be a really solid, healthy, fully integrated person who randomly has an addict develop in your, you know, your, your family or inner circle and then know what to do about it. But if you've sort of evolved with the addict and you guys got sick together, but they're technically the only one using, it's really difficult to untangle yourself from that and learn what healthy boundaries are and what true loving help is for that person. Because love is a combination of wisdom and intelligence. You know, it has to have both of those or it doesn't really work. It's like if it was all love, then you look at a spoiled child, right? And a spoiled child gets all the love, but it's not intelligent love, you know, so it's. You have to be able to apply those different principles, I think, in order to be effective. But I feel for anyone who's involved with addicts. I mean, even.

Well, I know the opiate epidemic is huge these days.

It's insane. It's easier than ever to become a Drug addict.

Right. And a lot of their first dealers are their doctors.

Yeah, yeah, I've seen that a lot. And that stuff's really hard to get off.

Yeah, yeah.

In a sense, it's like, worse than the street drugs because I remember when I was physically addicted to opiates. It's like sometimes you'd be forced to quit just because your guy, you know, he lost his pager or got thrown in jail or whatever, you know, so. So it's like if you couldn't get it, you were sort of forced to detox. And it actually made it problematic because that process of constantly being forced to be in withdrawal and stuff makes you get sick of that whole system. But I imagine if I would have had access to a dirty doctor or something that would keep writing me illegitimate scripts, it would have been harder because you come up with enough money for the prescription. It's always there. The street drug addiction is a lot more stressful because there are times when.

You just can't get it right and don't know where.

It's horrible. Yeah. There's no worse feeling than when you're addicted to opiates and you don't have them. Withdrawal is the worst ever.

Yeah. So now that you're sober, what do you think of, like, drug use in festivals? Like, kids trying molly or, like, just, like, doing shrooms and they're having fun. They're not drug addicts, but they're doing it multiple times a year. Do you think that's a safe place to do it or just don't even.

Well, here's the thing. It's funny because I just did an episode I released yesterday. It's all about the psychedelics of sound and breath. And the premise of this particular episode was how you can get high naturally just with those types of things. And we do talk about it. It's with Aleon Zak of the Womb center in New York City, which is a great kind of sound and yoga and meditation studio. Point being, was I really examined when I was writing the intro for that human's relationship with drugs, whether they be ones that are produced inside us in the form of hormones and endorphins and neurotransmitters and things like that? I mean, you can get high as shit off oxytocin and dopamine. You don't need to put anything in you. And those are the great things you get. Like having this puppy here that I'm petting. I'm getting.

He's of, like, bunch A.

So human beings love to feel Good and love to get high. And I don't think that there's ever going to be a point in this earthly existence where all of a sudden humans are going to go, oh, you know, we don't want to take mushrooms anymore or do ayahuasca or freaking smoke bat guano or whatever it's going to do. Like, we love to expand our consciousness and get a different perspective. So I don't at all have a moral or even that much of a common sense approach to whether or not people should do drugs or when it's appropriate. It's more like I think the education and awareness is really important. If I was a parent of a teenager that was starting to go to festivals, I would have been having honest conversations with them their entire life when it was appropriate and they were of age to understand and conceptualize that of what the different drugs are and what they do and what the potential. And I would hope that I could have enough of an honest communication and rapport with the kid that I could say, hey, you're going to this festival, you're probably gonna trip. Like, my advice would be take mushrooms. If you're gonna do something, stick to the natural stuff. I think I'd be a pretty cool dad. But it's not one of those things where it's right or wrong, good or bad. It depends on the context. And I'm telling you, a lot of it just depends on whether a person has a propensity toward addiction. And if they do, there's not a lot you can do. They're gonna have to. In most cases, it's going run its course. And that's the sad thing about addiction is you really, most of us have to hit a bottom. And things have to get pretty dark before you're willing to summon the humility that it takes to have the spiritual experience that absolves you of that affliction.

And I guess for each person it's like, what's your bottom? Yeah, for some people it's like, okay, I need to be like, run over by a train. Like, it needs to be that apparent to me. Whereas for other people it's like, oh, I got sick one time and that's it.

Yeah, totally. Every person has a different threshold for pain. And I personally, I like drugs too, you know, So I think for a sober person, I have a pretty moderate attitude. I think everyone should do acid and mushrooms at some point in their lives.

Just to try it. Yeah.

Yeah. To see on the other side, because it gives you. Even if you don't Necessarily continue the pursuit of those realms. At least you get to poke your head in the window and go, oh, okay. The reality that we're all experiencing is not the full picture exactly. It's not that this 3D linear material reality is not real. It's just only part of the equation. There are other dimensions and all sorts of other frequencies going on all around us all the time that we're totally unaware of unless we have the assistance of a chemical. So when people want to go to ayahuasca and all that, I'm like, great, good for you. It's not my path, but I think it's awesome because if you have the addict gene, you're gonna get it anyway. So I don't know. I've never heard of anyone that, like, becomes an addict at 90 years old. Like, you're gonna start experimenting and you're gonna get hooked eventually or not. Unless you're just a person who really doesn't have that capacity. Like, I have two brothers, for example. It's been interesting to watch them. One of them is just like me. Touches anything, instantly it's addicted. The other one couldn't care less about smoking weed, drinking beers. We used to be roommates, and even though I was sober, you know, if I was in Trader Joe's, I'd grab a six pack of Corona for dates or just having friends over and stuff like that. I wasn't commanding that everyone else be sober. I lived with my brother Andy for about five years, and I would buy a six pack of beer and it would sit in the refrigerator for a year, you know, and then I'd note, and I just forget about it. And I notice it, and I'd be like, dude, why don't you ever drink any of those beers? He's like, why? Why would I? I go, well, what if you have the day off? I mean, don't you want to get fucked up? You know, like, if you have the day off the next day or you're on vacation, like, why wouldn't you sit on the couch and drink five or six beers that night? And he's like, ew, why would I do that? And he just doesn't have it, you know? And I asked him in college, he went to Pratt in New York and went to art school. Like, in art school, did you. Doing acid all the time, smoking weed on the reg. He was like, smoke weed a few times. Just whatever. Like, you ever take acid? He's like, oh, why would I do that? It's just not in his consciousness to even Have a desire to explore that.

Well, just different soul lessons. Like, that's just not the lesson he needs to learn.

And also, you know, the weird thing is too, I love talking about this. Thank you for indulging me to go down this topic because it's not something I get to talk about a lot. But the other weird thing is. So back to the trauma piece. Most of us have some sort of trauma. It's very rare that someone's born with really healthy, conscious parents. Maybe you are. Some people I meet that are really young and early on the consciousness path. Some of them are really just lit up and their parents were lit up and they're in this lineage of lit up people. But we experience that trauma that's more overt or covert, right? We could say to frame it that way. The weird thing about addiction is that you take two people with the exact same trauma level, right? Let's just say they were both beat up and molested to the same degree by the same parent, the same dynamic. You take person A and when they're 16 years old, you start giving them drugs and alcohol to deal with that trauma. And they don't. They're not having it. They don't get any relief from it. And then you take the other kid, you're like, here, take a hit of this. And they take that hit. And this peace and serenity and this experience of God washes over this. And from that moment on, that's all they want to do to deal with that pain. So it's just weird how some people are more prone to actually feeling a great sense of relief from substances and others aren't. So my brother, who doesn't have the addict gene, he might have the worst day at work ever. He got a parking ticket, his car got towed, he got in a fight with his girlfriend, got fired, comes home, I'm like, man, I bet you really want to smoke some weed. And he's like, oh my God, that's the worst idea ever.

Because how does he deal?

Well, it doesn't, you know, I don't know. We'll find out. It doesn't promise. Provide him with the relief that it would. Someone like me back in the day, it didn't matter if I had a good day or a bad day, but let's just say I was really upset or I was in pain or in grief or something like that. The sense of relief that I got just from sitting down and just smoking some weed, it was like. It was heavenly, man. Just the profound effect it had on me, especially When I was a kid. So that's the other weird piece too, is it doesn't. It doesn't work for everyone in the same way. And I think that's more your physical.

Makeup and composition from an ayurvedic perspective. Vatas, which you are. They're super like in their heads and can be like really like creative and artistic, but at the same time can get like anxious and overwhelmed. So something like weed that puts them really deep in their bodies feels really good.

Oh, that makes sense.

Because they're like, I'm not in my head anymore. But it sounds like your brother is more like Kapha, that he's like already like really in his body and like in the day to day stuff. So maybe something that brought him more into the like spacey stuff would be really good for him just to like, you know, get a broader view of like, oh, what is the whole purpose of life? You know?

Right.

And then like pitta people, really fiery. For them it's always like, go, go, go. What's next? And for them just like chilling out, like being by water, anything. Like if there's like any watery kind of drug, maybe alcohol, stuff like that would feel really good for them.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah. We could do the doshas and the drugs.

I see an online course on the horizon.

What's your drug? Dosha.

That's funny. The ayurvedic approach to being a druggie. Yes, but no. Here's the thing is I think all substances that are put here for us have a purpose. And human beings have obviously figured out how to distill down those substances. In the case of cocaine or heroin or something like that. I mean, a friend of mine the other day is like, oh, I got some cocoa leaf from Peru. I just chew it all the time. Do you get high? He's like, no, dude, it's not cocaine. Cocaine's not natural. You know, weed's really the only drug that fully just comes out of the ground. All you have to do is cook it or smoke it and you're good. All the other drugs, including alcohol, other things have to transpire at the hand of mankind in order for it to have the desired effect. Most things, there's not that many things that just pop out of the ground. Shrooms? Yeah. Mushrooms. There's a few, I'm sure you know, Ayahuasca ingredients in ayahuasca? Yeah, you mix them up, you heat them up. But that's the thing is all this stuff serves a purpose. As long I think the fine line is like, Are you using it or is it using you?

Right.

And that's. Anyone that dabbles can ask themselves that question, am I in control of this or is it in control of me?

Right.

That's the definition of addiction.

Exactly.

And even if you're honest with yourself and you say, yeah, this is controlling me, well, then you can make a decision to ride that out as long as you can still manage and you're still deriving benefits. So even if someone's addicted, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. It's just you have to kind of weigh out the benefit to cost ratio of your drug use. It's like, great, I smoke weed every day. It helps me be happy. It helps me get through. Well, did your wife leave you because of it? Did you lose your job? Did your car get impounded? Are you a loser because you blaze every day?

Well, the thing is, they probably just don't see it.

Well, that's possible, too.

Everyone loves me. Everyone. Everything's great.

Yeah, that's possible. Yeah, that's true, too. You never pop your head at the clouds to have that glimpse of reality. But, I mean, do you see the distinction, though?

For sure. For sure. There's this interesting book, I Don't Remember what it's called Love Find out and Let yout Know. And it's about how every animal gets high. Like dolphins in the water take pufferfish, and they inhale them, and then there's videos of them, like, jumping and doing flips, and they're high. And like elephants, they drink these fruits that fall from the tree, and in the sun they ferment and they become alcoholic. And there's videos of these elephants, and they're drunk and just having a good time. And it goes through every animal and it finds a way to feel something greater than itself.

Right, right. That's so interesting. Yeah. I have seen these videos of these certain monkeys that learned how to ferment some coconut, you know, something like that. And they're getting all wasted and falling out of the tree.

It's like kefir.

Yeah, totally. Like, wow, that looks fun.

Wow. How incredible is Luke's story? And I am so excited for part two of this episode, the next episode, which is going to be out in just three days, where we dive into where he is now, because now he's very passionate about his health. He's been sober for over two decades, and he is very, very passionate about biohacking specifically. What does biohacking mean? It's such a term that we use. So he talks about biohacking and we really geek out over choosing the best water because water is something that's so important that we drink all day every day and we have to choose the right kind of water for us. So he shares his expertise on water in part two of this episode. So be sure you're subscribed on iTunes, Spotify, SoundCloud wherever you listen to this podcast so you'll be able to get alerted for part two of this episode. You're not gonna wanna miss this. If you loved this episode and want to dive deeper into Ayurveda, be sure to check out my new book if you Eat Feel Fresh which is now available for pre order wherever books are sold as a free gift. For pre ordering my book, I will be sending you in the mail a signed book plate as well as a beautiful tarot card I created for you and I will be emailing you an additional 10 bonus recipes. So this book is for you if you are interested in eating Ayurvedically but want to make it more modern, more approachable, make it work for today's busy day and time. I've taken the best of Ayurveda as well as ingredients from blue zones around the world. I'm talking Costa Rica, Vietnam, Japan, everywhere in between because I believe that Ayurveda is a guideline that can be practiced with any sort of eating. So we look at food from an Ayurvedic perspective as well as from today's modern lens. So be sure to check it out. Eat Feel Fresh A Contemporary Plant based Cookbook. Send your receipt over to me on my website iamsaharrose.com or eatfeelfresh.com and you will be able to receive all my pre order bonuses, signed book plate, bonus recipes and so much more as my gratitude and thank you for pre ordering the book. Also, be sure to check out my Sacred Self Care and Ayurvedic Nutrition E course over on Dailyome.com the links to both of those are over on the podcast Show Notes. And if you loved this episode and you'd like a little gift for reviewing it, I would love to send you you the first half of my unreleased book. It's called Eat Right for your Mind Body Type. It is not available for sale anywhere, never will. So as a free gift for reviewing this episode in the itunes store, you just head over to itunes on your phone, on your computer, click Write a review, write a nice review, take a screenshot of it and email it over to me before you hit submit my email is Sahara S A H A R a Ask and I will send you back the first half of my unreleased book Eat right for your mind body type. I hope you loved this episode and I'll see you on the next one. Namaste.

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