128: Mastering Your Online Business Skills with Chris Harder

Namaste. It's Sahara Rose. And welcome back to the Highest Self podcast, a place where we discuss what makes you your soul's highest evolvement. This episode is brought to you by uva. Uvda is a modernized ayurvedic supplement company that takes certain issues that we have, such as mood, joints, immunity, digestion, and creates these custom little packets exactly for us, infusing ancient Ayurvedic herbs with modern vitamins and minerals. I take the mood formula daily. It is great if you work a stressful job, had adrenal fatigue, ever suffer from anxiety or even depression, and it really heals you from a fundamental and holistic level. So if you want to try it out, head over to uvada y-o u v e d a.com, use the code Sahara and you'll receive 35% off your first order. And they now ship to almost every country globally. So check it out. If you live internationally, they may be shipping to your country too. And they just added India, guys. This episode is also brought to you by four Sigmatic. Four Sigmatic is an incredible mushroom elixir company. I proudly drink their elixirs every single day. My favorite is their chai mix. It is insanely delicious. I quit chocolate cold turkey and what helped me was drinking this chai mix every day. And best of all, they use stevia to sweeten it. And there's no sugars like the chai lattes you'll find at Starbucks or wherever else. And the mushrooms are really good for balancing your hormones, helping heal adrenal fatigue, healing your body on an adaptogenic level. So adaptogens really kind of relate to what your body needs. So if you are high stress, it will bring you down. If you need more energy, it will bring you up. And that's what's so amazing about adaptogens. They adapt to your body. And mushrooms, medicinal mushrooms, have a lot of adaptogenic properties so you can head over to their website, 4sigmatic.com F O U R S I G M A T-I C.com Sahara I have a little shop up there with my favorite four Sigmatic products so you can try it out. And you can also get 15% off any four sigmatic product using the code Sahara. Also, I'd like to make my book tour announcement. I will be coming to several different cities not just to share my book, but to have a Bollywood dance party and hug each other and talk all about the doshas and relationships and business and self care and everything in between. My book launch events are so much more than me just talking about the book, but it's really a way to create community and to have a lot of fun. So come join me October 12th in LA, October 17th in New York, November 30th in Miami. And I'm going to be going to San Diego sometime in between, then head over to my website, eatfeelfresh.com book. I'm going to be adding some more cities, so head over there so you can stay tuned. And I'm so excited to meet you in person. I had the most amazing time talking with Chris Harder all about business stuff so Chris Harder is the host of the for the Love of Money podcast and I actually adore that podcast so much because he teaches me tons about business, especially having an online business, which which is something that I have had for a few years but only really nailed and monetized well for the past year. So it took me years of figuring out the ropes and it's changed so much drastically over the years and how to create an online program and online marketing and SEO and blogging and funnels and all that stuff. So I really have dived into that stuff in the past few years, which I'm really grateful for because it's taught me a ton about business. So it was awesome being able to chat with Chris about it because he's someone I really look up to in business. I actually was the opening speaker at his Mastermind, which was an amazing experience and I love his approach because he knows a lot about the kind of wellness online sphere because his wife Lori Harder, who has been on this podcast twice, is an author and she teaches about self love and women accepting their bodies. She has an amazing book, A Tribe Called Bliss. And that's his wife, so he does a lot of the business stuff for her business and had such great amazing insight. We talk all about how to price a program correctly, how to know when you are meant to create an online business or not. All about the funnels. We talk about all of that good stuff. So questions that you may have had about online businesses. We talk a lot about it in this episode and I also want to be sharing with you that I am launching my Abundance Mindset Masterclass. So this masterclass is for you if you want to have an online business. You want to change your relationship worth money. You want to know how you can have spirituality and consciousness and live an abundant lifestyle to afford for all of the whole foods, bills and yoga classes and massages and things that it takes to live an abundant life because you Know, back in the day, people were monks and they would just meditate all day and people would feed them. But that's not the case for today, nor do most of us want that. So we have to be independent and stand up for ourselves, but at the same time do it with consciousness and taking care of other people and giving back. And, you know, impact is such an important thing for Chris and for Ayin, for a lot of entrepreneurs. And I recently did a podcast episode all about the Cambodian Children's Fund and how I spoke about how I sponsored a child. And because of that episode, I did a listener who went to Cambodia to go visit the place where I sponsor the child, and she sponsors now two children from there. And now I also sponsor grandma from there. So it is amazing the impact that you can make when you change your mindset on money, as well as the freedom that you could have in your life to really go after your creative tasks, to go after the things that fill you up, to have time to read. Like right now, I've been reading a lot of books, which has been so great and so nourishing. Whereas a few years ago I didn't have time to read because I was so busy doing tons of one on one consultations all day long, just talking, talking, talking, one on one consultations that I would get so burnt out by the end of the day. That last thing I wanted to do was read. But now that I have an online business, I'm creating passive income and I'm able to literally get checks coming in the mail and I'm not doing active work on it. It's just something I set up that's creating recurring income for me. And that frees up my time to do more things that fill me up. Write more books, go to the beach, volunteer cook, spend time with my fiance, take care of other people. I love doing that stuff and I feel so free that I don't have to work and trade in my hour for dollars. And that's something I talk about a lot in the Abundance Mindset masterclass. So if you're interested, head over to the Show Notes. You can sign up for it there. We're gonna be doing a live webinar with two mentors who are really gonna help you create a sales funnel, et cetera. It's gonna lead to a really cool online program that you can do to create your own online business. So check it out on the Show Notes or on my website, iamsaharrose.com and I'm so excited to have you. And if you're listening to this past November. We're gonna be doing it again live in January, so still, head over to the show notes, sign up, and you can participate in the next live online program. So, Chris Harder, he's an amazing podcast host, a teacher, total business badass. I love learning from him, and I know you are too. Let's welcome him to the Highest Self Podcast. Welcome, Chris to the Highest Self Podcast. It's so great to have you here.

I am beyond excited to be on here. Thanks for having me.

Oh, well, I'm so excited because I think I've listened to all of your podcast episodes, like, I am a fan, so please listen to his podcast after you listen to this.

Oh, my God, that makes me so happy. Seriously.

Well, I just love it because, you know, I'm someone who loves growing spiritual growth, personal development, everything. And I realized a few years ago, you know, I did this, like, circle, and it's like, like, health, exercise, relationships, community. Da, da, da. And the thing that I scored the worst on was finances. Why? Because I grew up kind of, you know, my parents had money and all of that, but then I realized money doesn't bring happiness, and there's so much more important things in life. So I kind of put that as, like, having money is a bad thing, and people who focus their lives on money are greedy and they don't experience higher joys. So I kind of thought, you know, to be conscious, I have to not have money as priority. And I think a lot of people listening did this. But then I realized that what's really holding me back from fully being in my joy and my power and also doing what I want to do full time is this fear of money, which is what brought me to reading, like, how to Think Like a Millionaire. I think that's what it's called.

Secrets of Millionaire Mind.

Yeah, Becker, exactly. With Harv. With Harv, yeah. And listening to podcasts like yours, and that has been the biggest game changer for me.

Well, first of all, thank you. That means a ton to hear that. And, you know, you're not alone. Matter of fact, you are the majority. Most people wake up in that situation where they realize they've put everything else first. Their spirituality and their health and their fitness and their relationships, and they feel. Forget that they have to work on their money mindset as well. Like, it's literally another relationship in your life that you have to remember to cultivate and to woo and to date. Yeah, you have to date your money. You have to date that money mindset because quite honestly, it's so easy to cruise through life with all these other challenges that we have. We want to get the right significant other. We want to have the right tribe, the right friends, the right business partners, the right career, like, you name it. There's so much for us to work on. The last thing we think. Think to work on is our money mindset and that relationship right there. So that's why so many people wake up and have that exact same feeling that you're describing now. In addition to forgetting to work on one's relationship with their money, people also have this inherent shame or fear around being judged for pursuing money or pursuing success. And this is what really, really holds us back. And this is what I'm working so hard to help people overcome. Because I feel like, and I'm just going to say it. People are more worried about being humble than helpful. And here's what I mean by that. Of course, everyone wakes up and they want to be helpful. I mean, we're all pretty dang good people at the core. So what I mean by that is, if you have to choose between having ultimate financial abundance so that you can help any number of people that you want and any cause that you want, or appearing humble, what do we choose? We choose appearing humble. And so I'm just gonna lay it out there and say people are too worried about being humble than helpful. Because if you were more worried about being helpful, you would close out all of the other noise that you're hearing and you would roll up your sleeves and you would bring as much wealth into your life as you can, knowing that because you're a good person, you're then gonna go do great things with that wealth.

Yep, totally. I mean, what a. Like, that's gonna be your quote for this episode. I mean, I'm sure you're gonna come up with more. But it's so true. I think a lot of us, we think that if it's, you know, if it's what you love to do and you're charging for it, then it's no longer what you love to do, because, you know, there's now a monetary value to it, and it becomes icky feeling. And that's why I see so many people who are health coaches or healers or whatever, and they love doing it so much that they're like, sure, I'll do it for free, or I'll speak at your event for free. I'll do this for free, that for free. And that's what keeps them from doing it full Time they have these nine to fives that they hate and they're healing on the side. Why? Because they don't want to charge money for it.

So that's an epidemic that we need to work together to shift. Then it affects the spiritual community, the healer community, the yoga community, the coaching community more than any other community out there. I want you to think about Wall Street. Wall street is unapologetic about going and creating as much wealth as possible. And it gets a bad name. Except the majority of people I know that are massively wealthy, I don't care if it's Wall street entrepreneurship. No matter how they receive their wealth, they do incredibly beautiful things with that money. I literally do not know an incredibly wealthy individual, at least that runs in our tribe that isn't doing really big things that shift the world with their wealth. And so here's the problem. On Wall street, it's acceptable to talk about pursue wealth. But in the spiritual community, in the healer community, in the coaching community, it's not. It's taboo. And the problem is that community is all working together to hold each other down and they don't even realize it. So for example, when somebody in that community comes out with a brand new E course and they want to charge 500 or 1,000 or $2,000 for it, what happens? Other people in the community say, this is your soul's work. How dare you charge that much money? And then that person feels bad and they never have a launch again, or they don't put the product out to begin with. And that's a product that could have helped somebody. And so the community is literally depressing itself. It's holding each other down by judging each other's desire for wealth. And when one person finally breaks through and says, dang it, enough is enough. I need the money to sustain the message. I need the money to get my work out there. I need the money to reach more people than I'm reaching right now. So I'm going to unapologetically get out there and I'm going to ask for my value. Because that's all you're doing is you're asking for the value in exchange for the value you're putting out there. So when someone stands up says, I'm going to ask for my value unapologetically, when they start to accumulate wealth and show how many more people they're able to help, then other people are going to catch on. So they're going to see you do it and then those people are going to start doing it and Then the people watching them are going to start doing it. Someone has to stand up in this community, this healer community, this coaching community, and be the change that says it's okay for us to exchange the energy called money.

Absolutely. I mean, I remember when I first started health coaching on my website, said, $20 consultations. I said, any problem you have, I'll help you. Just $20 an hour. If you had an actual health problem, would you listen to the person who's like, anything, 20 bucks. It's like, you know, it's like giving out, like a homeless person $20 for, like, life advice. You might do it for shits and giggles. You're not going to take that advice seriously. But I was just so in this, like, you know, if I charge more, no one's going to come. But the thing is, charging so little made no one come.

So that's so true. People will only take something serious when they have skin in the game. And so let's say you're a healer and you have an incredible ability to heal people. Most people, if you are asking too little, they're gonna assume that it's not valuable. Or if it's some form of coaching, if you're asking too little, if they don't have enough skin in the game, they're not gonna show up trying to maximize their results because they're not feeling the pain of having skin in the game. And I'm not saying that your customers should feel pain, but let's be honest. The reason why you might take college so serious is because you know that you're leaving there with 100 grand in college loans.

Right?

The reason why you might take a Tony Robbins event so seriously is because you know you paid $2,000 for that ticket. When you have a lot of skin in the game, you rise to the occasion and you learn as much as you can during that moment or during that course or during that event. And so when we're not charging a lot for these things, we're almost setting up our customers to fail.

So what do you do? When you're in the position I've been in, I'm sure a lot of people have been in. You set the price that you feel is right, and it's crickets. No one buys.

Well, a lot of times it's not the price that's causing nobody to buy. There are so many factors. The problem is we build the story because we already have the fear there that, oh, sure enough, I shouldn't have charged $500 for it. I knew it. No One's buying, I screwed up, I charged too much money. I'm greedy. Like, we build this ridiculous story, we forget to look at the fact that maybe your funnel isn't working very well. Maybe your sales copy isn't working very well. Maybe your graphic arts don't appeal to the people you're trying to attract. Maybe you are targeting the wrong crowd. Maybe your email list isn't big enough. The list goes on and on and on. All these other variables that if just one of those is out of whack, your launch of your event, your course, whatever it is that you're launching, can really have some rough results. And the problem is it's easiest to look at the price we're charging and blame that. It's more difficult to look at those other layers of the mechanics behind what causes a successful launch or not.

Totally. And I feel like money is always the variable that we play with and we don't. We're like, oh, I created the course, so now let me play around with the different costs. And I find myself doing this all the time too. Whereas what if I played around with the types of interviews I did around it or the types of graphics and that sort of thing. And I think people don't realize as content creators is like, invest in creating that content. Don't just put up like a random picture of yourself all the time and think that's gonna rock the boat. Like, get good graphics made, get a beautiful website made. Create this whole story around where your product is gonna take that person. Cause really, you talk about this on your podcast, it's what is that emotion? It has nothing to do with the product.

That's so true. And to do everything you're saying, what does it take?

Money.

It takes lots of money, like to get the right graphic arts to get the right funnel built to get the of Facebook ads or Google Ads or Instagram ads. That all takes money to get your message out there. I'm going to use Lori's, my wife, her book launch as an example, and I'm going to be super transparent just so people can grasp this concept of it takes money to get your message out there in a big way. So Lori's dream is to get this book out to millions of people. And it's her message up to this point. It's her life's work. Of course she's going to have more life's work after this, but up to this point, it's her life's work and she wants to help people find Quality Tribe in the worst of ways, a very honorable message. Now here's the thing to do that our book launch budget is $300,000. Now, I'm not saying you need 300 grand to launch a book. Don't let that stop anyone in their tracks. But what I'm saying is if you want to have a great big launch in a great big way, and you want to reach as many tens of thousands that turns into hundreds of thousands, that then turns into millions of people, if that means a lot to you, then you need that tool called money in order to get it out there in a big, big way. And so, so that's a great point.

Of reference and thank you so much for sharing that. No one shares that.

I'm not being transparent about that stuff because people wonder, how did her book end up in a million hands and mine didn't? Well, it's because we worked so incredibly hard on our relationship with money and then we worked so incredibly hard in earning money that we finally have a little bit larger of that tool called money to then invest in getting that message out there. And again, I don't want to discourage anyone that doesn't have $300,000 for a book launch, because I have friends that are doing million dollar book launches and I'm saying, why can't we spend a million? And I know friends that spent, you know, 10 grand on their entire book launch, and it was a super popular book that just caught fire. So the size of your budget isn't going to make or break your book launch. The size of your budget is only going to help increase the chances that you get that thing to catch fire.

Totally. And I think if people see money as this tool to help get your message out there, you know, it's most people who are making money, who are entrepreneurs, are investing like 80% of whatever they make right back into the business.

Well, they really are. You know that old adage, it takes money to make money. I can make it an argument that it's true and then we can make this great, awesome grassroots type of argument that is not true. But at the end of the day, it takes money to make bigger money. It takes money to make faster money. You can always roll up your sleeves and kick and bite and scratch your way there and get momentum and then build on that momentum. But guess what? When you start building on that momentum, what are you doing? You're taking the money coming in and you're reinvesting it in order to increase the size of that snowball that's rolling in. Your favorite. It's the same thing. At some point in your life, it's going to take money in order to make more money to have that money to invest in getting your message out there in a bigger way.

So for people who are starting out, they don't have a huge budget, what do you think are the first things they should really invest in?

It's a great question. I am a huge fan of grassroots building your business. One of the best. And people don't realize this, I'm going to give away a secret. Here we go. One of the best ways to get your message out there for free is to build a one page little PR pitch about yourself and your signature story and then send it out to as many podcasters as possible. Pitching yourself as a guest. Now have thick skin because not everyone's gonna say yes, right? Less than half will say yes. But putting yourself on a podcast tour is the cheapest, most effective way to get any message or build any audience out there. Right now, it's free for you to be interviewed once a day, five days a week. That's five shows a week that would be going out to people's audiences. Imagine how quickly your message would grow and your audience would grow if you just put yourself on a podcast tour and it cost you $0 to build that pitch page and start emailing it out. So that's one example of a grassroots efforts to build your business. Another one is good old fashioned networking. Reach out to people who are doing what you are doing. Reach out to groups that are involved in what you want to be involved in and insert yourself into those people's lives. You're going to find that more people want to play the hero than there are people that'll say, no, I don't want to help you. It's one of these scary things to do. You know, I don't want to reach out to this person with 100,000 followers. They're not going to want to help me. They're not going to want to collaborate. Except everyone is looking for good people that they resonate with on an energetic level to collaborate with. I don't care if you have 10 followers or 10 million followers. People resonate with your message. People resonate with the authenticity of the mission that you are putting yourself on. And so if you're serious about your mission, reach out to the people that intimidate you. Reach out to the people that scare you and ask how you can serve them. Ask how you can collaborate. Pay them a compliment and say, you know, have you ever thought of this I would love to help you with it and offer up one of your skill sets that you have to offer up. It's inserting yourselves into those forms of collaboration that'll make your business take off.

Totally and providing that value not coming into, oh, you have 100,000 followers. Will you post about my self published book that has like 10 people who ever bought it? It's like, no, that's not really an equal energy exchange, but like providing so much value, helping that person that it's like they naturally will just want to share your work.

Oh, totally. Here's a great little hack to get someone's attention. So you could buy a hundred of their books and you could do a big Instagram giveaway and tag them that you are doing an Instagram giveaway of 100 of their books or 50 of their books that's gonna catch anyone's attention and they're gonna say, who's this person? That's a pretty serious move. And wow, they are totally a fan of what I'm doing. This person has now caught my eye and it's a great way to help, you know, people, to help catch their attention.

And I think what people are immediately thinking is, well, that's gonna cost so much money. Exactly. But it's like that's why you have to figure out even sometimes the way that you make the money. I know you guys talk about working with network marketing. It's like sometimes that way that you first make the money is not the first final way that you want to be making money. You just need to get it in.

Oh my gosh, that is such a great statement. So one of the things I love about network marketing is I don't care what company you're in, the barrier to entry is very little and the risk is almost nothing. But the upside for income is huge. Right. If you take it serious, if you build a good team, the upside for income is huge. And that income becomes your seed money. And you can use that seed money to then grow all the other marketing in the areas that mean the most to you. So one of the reasons why our brand has grown so quickly is we've been able to take those risks because we've got that network marketing residual income coming in that we first built. And so when we try a huge Facebook ad campaign and it fails, it's not the end of the world. When we try to put on an event and we're worried if tickets are going to sell or not, it's not the end of the world because you have that Safety net. And so network marketing is a great low risk way with a really big upside for people to get out there, build that residual income, and then invest that residual income into the real dream that they were put here for.

Exactly. And also being an affiliate for other people's products, it's like that product is up and running. You just need to be that middle person. Not that that's the end goal, but just so you can have the money in to invest in the graphic designer and buy the books, et cetera.

That is such a great example. So most people with E courses that are $1,000 or $2,000, you can affiliate for them. And the going rate is 50% these days. Some are 40, some are 60, but the average is 50% split. So think about that. If you were affiliating for, you know, so and so person and their course was $2,000 and you were able to sell it to 10 of your friends, audience followers, funnel, whatever, that's $10,000 that you'd receive for your 50%, then what could you do with that $10,000? You didn't have to build the course, you didn't have to do anything. All you did was sell a product you believe in to your current audience and then take that money and reinvest it into your own dreams and your own product that you want to build.

So I'd love to talk to you about that next step. I see a lot of people doing that. They're getting the money in and they stop building their own stuff. Because I can make $1,000 from selling other, other people's stuff.

So that's a, it's a slippery slope. It's a trap. At the end of the day, you should be chasing your calling. Right. Or the fulfillment's not going to be there. Now, affiliate marketing is an awesome way to make money at first. Before you can build your courses, before you can build your events, before you can build your supplements or whatever it is that you're gonna affiliate for. But that is not the long game, that is not the end game. The end game is having your own message packaged in a way that you think is gonna reach people the best, and then standing behind that message that you have packaged in order to get it out there and change the world. And so take that money that you're making from affiliate marketing. Be wise with that money, but never lose sight of the long game, which is investing that money in building your own dreams and your own calling.

Totally. Exactly. And just know that it is just the tool so you can get to where it is you need to go.

Absolutely. Listen, there's so many ways to get where you need to go. It's like we're touching on whether it's network marketing, affiliate marketing, whether it's a grassroots campaign, no matter what it is, there are many, many ways to get where you want to go, to fulfill your dream, to reach whatever goals it is that you have. If you're not reaching them, and I don't mean to rub anyone the wrong way, but if you're not reaching them, you're not trying hard enough, you're not trying enough avenues. Now, I'm not saying that you aren't giving any effort whatsoever, but where there's a will, there's a way. That cheesy old comment, it's so true. If you are resourceful, then there is nothing that's going to stop you. Because there are so many different ways that you can start from 0, turn it into 1, which turns into 2, which turns into 4, which turns into 8 and a 16, and it grows exponentially. You just have to be willing to try all those ways. And a lot of times, you know what gets in the way? Ego. So what I mean by ego is there's two forms of ego that I'm referring to. Number one, ego of, well, I'm not going to sell someone else's stuff. Or the ego of, well, I'm not going to look silly by marketing it this way, or I'm not going to look silly by participating in this industry. So that ego is stopping you in your opportunity to get that momentum going, that income going to then go work in what you really want to work in, number one. Number two, what I mean by ego is the fear of failure. Like, what if I try and it doesn't work? What if I try it and people laugh at me? What if I try it and it doesn't have a fast start? That is another form of ego. You're afraid of what people are going to think of you. And that really just boils down to you're protecting your fragile ego. Because what would happen if someone said, oh, she tried one of her things and it didn't work? Again, honestly, it doesn't mean anything if someone says that about you, but you're afraid that people are going to say that about you, and so you're protecting that fragile ego. So I've got this phrase. It's ego is your greatest overhead. And I had to make up that phrase for myself, for myself. And if you think about it, it's so true. Ego is always your greatest overhead. It'll stop you from speaking up when you're supposed to speak up because you're afraid of what people might think. It'll stop you from taking action when you're afraid of judgment. It'll stop you from trying whatever business venture you want to try when you're afraid of failure or, or sometimes when you're afraid of success. I mean, you name the scenario and I can show you how ego is your greatest overhead every single time.

So, so, so true. And I, and I love how you bring that point in because really it's only us getting in our own way always. And that next level growth, it's just look within what are your own blocks. And that's exactly what's keeping getting there, has nothing to do with the external.

That's so true. We're protecting, you know, our current situation that we're in right now. So however you woke up today, whatever your feelings were, whatever your finances were, whatever your relations, where we're protecting that situation. But here's a great irony at the same time as not liking the situation we're in, right? Because we also woke up saying I wish I had more money, I wish I had a different significant other, I wish I had a relationship, or I wish I lived in a different home, or you know, we have this wish list when we wake up. So it's so ironic that we wake up trying to protect our current situation, yet we don't even like the situation that we are currently in. And that's that weird dichotomy between protecting ego, but your ego not serving you whatsoever.

And it's interesting, people in Ayurveda who are kapha, which is like a lot of earth energy, are like that because they like to stick in their habits and in their routines. And for them, they know it might not be serving them, but that uncomfortability is like just not worth it for them. It's just too much energy. So they end up staying in the same job, same position, same same roles. So it's literally like shaking, shaking your body, your routine, all of it. And it's all interconnected.

It's crazy that we refer to that as a comfort zone when really it's keeping us in the most discomfort ever, right?

There's no such thing even as a comfort zone.

No, totally not. Because the minute you get to what you think is your comfort zone, it becomes uncomfortable because you're naturally we're meant to grow, naturally we're meant to advance, naturally we're meant to create More and more impact. And so as soon as you get to a certain level, guess what, you want to level up. That's a natural thing, and that is okay. I always say be grateful for where you're at and equally ambitious for where you want to go when you can kind of really master that balance between saying, I'm so grateful for where I am today and what I have, and I'm unapologetically ambitious for where I know my next level is and how to get there. That is a beautiful spot to be.

Yes. And I think a lot of people in, like, the spiritual path, it's very much focused on, like, be grateful, accept. Just take it as it is. So they end up almost complacent. And it's like, okay, if you want to. To be a monk who has no desire to make money, that's fine. But don't also want to have that desire to have a CEO and all of that when you're just in this place of pure acceptance. There's very few things we actually have to accept. There's so much that we can change that we're not even aware of.

Yeah. And that's the part that we have to be open to is the fact that we don't know what we don't know and that whatever is on the other side of what we're not quite willing to go and investigate sometimes is exactly what's calling us. And when we can be brave enough to go there, that's when we start making that connection between why everybody else and not me to, oh, wow, I'm finally getting my break right.

And the things that we are accepting about ourselves are our own stories of, oh, you know, I'm just lazy. Oh, I'm just a confused person. Oh, I'm just. So I just have to accept that about myself.

Yeah, that's just conditioning. Listen, that's probably your tribe keeping you there a little bit because you're afraid to upset the tribe. We have this unspoken agreement that, that, hey, we were this way when we became friends, so I guess we have to stay this way in order to stay friends. So it's partly your tribe keeping you there. It's partly the stories you've built over all the years. It's all of this conditioning that puts you in that position. And when you're willing to question the conditioning, that's when change will start unfolding in your favor.

So how do you deal with this when it comes with your family?

So when it comes to my family and finances, you mean or.

Yeah, like, you Know your family has its own money story that you grow up with and as you change yours and you're faced with theirs, how do you.

Family's just another form of tribe, right? And so anytime that you start to transcend your current tribe, it's going to bring some very uncomfortable moments and uncomfortable conversations. But quite honestly, it's the number of uncomfortable conversations that you're willing to have that's going to determine your level of success or not. So with our family, we have these conversations and we put them on the table with Lori's parents, with my parents. Everybody has their own money stories, their own backgrounds and a lot of times something will come up that Lori and I disagree with and we'll use that as a moment not to teach. I almost don't like the idea, like, oh, I'm going to teach you something. But we use it as a moment to discuss, hey, have you ever thought of it from this perspective? And guess what? Most of the time it turns into a great conversation. They're learning something or we're learning something about their perspective or about their background and what might feel like an uncomfortable conversation to start to have, right? A lot of times we're afraid to speak up is only uncomfortable for the first two minutes where you're saying, wait a minute, have you ever thought of it this way? And once you get past that little uncomfortable moment, it turns into a really neat rabbit hole to go down as a family. And so we do that. We don't let things just slide, we put them on the table and we say, I understand that you feel that way. Here's how we feel. And then we just start exploring it and we. I'll tell you what, both parties end up learning something every single time.

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That's a really interesting conversation because we, we've both been struggling with this. Lori with her family, me with my family, we talk very openly about the stories we've built and the events that have formed, you know, allowed us to form those stories growing up. And our parents, both of us were so fortunate to get these awesome parents that like loved us and cared about us and did the best they could with everything that they knew in the moment. Except you have to realize these are, are our stories that come from our interpretations of those moments. And so it's easy for our parents to get offended when they hear a podcast, when they hear an interview, when they see us on TV or whatever it is. And we're telling a story about growing up and our parents are saying, wait a minute, we did the best we could as parents. How dare you make it look as though we weren't trying? Or how dare you make it look as though we made a mistake. And that's never what we're doing. We're always just being honest about the colored lenses that we saw an event through, not the lenses that our parents saw that event through. But it's tough. And there's another thing that holds you back. To be honest, people are afraid to upset their families or tell the stories, and so they don't. And then they wonder why people are not gravitating towards them. Well, you've got to tell the uncomfortable moments. Like I said earlier, the number of uncomfortable conversations you're willing to have is going to determine your level of success.

Totally. I mean, I remember when my podcast came out and I was telling the stories about just horrible points in my relationship with my parents, and my parents ended up listening to it, and they were like, how dare you share all these secrets on the Internet? Da, da, da, da, da. And it's like, I'm like, this is my truth. I can't not vocalize my truth because then I'm getting stuck in that story. And this is how I heal. And for some people, it's really personal, and for some people, it's on a microphone. And this is just how I process and get through things. And it's like, you can't hold back your story because you're afraid of someone else involved in the story being affected by it. You know, it's healing for them, too.

You know, I couldn't agree more. As long as you are coming from a place of love, as long as you are doing a good job of making sure you're telling the story in a way that you're acknowledging it's your perspective, not their perspective. And as long as you do a good job of, you know, maybe framing the story of, listen, my parents are doing the best that they could, or my friends were doing the best that they could, or, you know, whoever it is that you're telling a story about, then be honest, because it's so funny how you just brought up, you said, your parents said, how dare you put these secrets on the Internet. These aren't supposed to be secrets. These are truth. Truths, right? They're not secrets. They're truths. And the more authentically we talk about our truths, the more people we can help, including ourselves and including the other people in that story. It has absolutely happened to our family already. By the way, where my parents at first would say something like, oh, my God, I can't believe you put that out there. It looks like this to these people listening. And then the growth that they got from that was realizing how concerned they are about how things look instead of how things were, and then that helps free them up from being so worried about how things look. Same thing with Laurie's parents. And so when you finally go there again, you're gonna have some tough moments. But what is at the other end of that tunnel is usually growth by both parties.

And then I think about when I read other people's books and stories and they share such personal details that, you know, now that I'm as a writer, I'm like, oh my God, like, what do their parents think? You know? But I'm like, wow, that's so brave of them that they were able to share that because I connect with them so much deeper now.

Well, it's almost like enrolling the people who mean the most to you in your mission to make the world a better place. It's almost like saying, mom and dad, I feel bad that we're using our parents so much here, but mom and dad, this is your role in helping people break wide open and make the world a better place. And I'm just kind of helping put my arm around you and bringing you into the conversation so that you can stand up and fulfill your role in making this world a better place.

Totally. So switching back years into business because this is a question that people have, I've had. There's sort of two schools when it comes to pricing. There's the one that's the lower price reach. More people have that like the Kayla it signs ebook that a lot of people bought. Then there's the other thing that's like, go high ticket, much more one on one as an experience. What's your take on this?

That's a great question. People are always like, how do I price this? And it always depends on what your goal is, not what is the value of the product. Let me repeat that. You always price something based on your end goal, not the value of the product. And let me give an example. Sometimes we'll do an E course and we will price it really, really, really, really inexpensively. Because our goal is to get that E course in as many hands as possible as an introduction to come learn with us. And then once they like what you've offered, what they've experienced from you, of course they're going to then purchase the more expensive offerings that you have that are going to help them grow even more in a deeper way. And so you have to know what your agenda is. Is your agenda to get tens of thousands of people to experience something, Then you have to make it your loss leader. That's what I call it. Right? You know, you're losing money based on what the value of that product, what you might really be able to get for it. So it's your loss leader, but your goal is to get it in as many hands as possible. Then knowing that you're going to upsell them into something that's going to help them even more down the road.

So you think kind of having the different tiers for the different people.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, people, at the end of the day, there's a lot of noise out there, there's a lot of products out there, there's a lot of options out there. And so you have to lead with some kind of product that is going to knock their socks off, that everybody can afford. Think about that. If you lead with a product that's going to knock their socks off that everybody can afford, then that's going to increase the chances that more and more and more people are going to experience what you have to offer and say, whoa, what she offers is amazing. I can't wait for the next thing. Because that's really the factor you're going for. You're going for the factor where they say, oh, my God, I had no idea it was this good. I only paid $29 for it. I certainly didn't expect it to be this comprehensive of. I cannot wait to see what else she offers me. And that's the position that you're first trying to expose people to. Because once you earn that trust, then you can price things more accordingly to the impact that you're trying to create with that product. So remember before I was talking about price something as a loss leader so you can get it in as many hands as possible to knock their socks off. Once they have that trust with them, then price your next product accordingly so that they're paying for impact, not paying for volume at that point.

And in this day and age, I feel like so many people have online courses now and everyone's all about the automation. And I feel like what happens is people sign up for these courses and they don't end up fulfilling them. And I've sort of seen this decline in people signing up for these courses because they're like, oh, I signed up for all these other ones. I never end up doing it.

So the people that just whip an E course out there, and I'm just going to be super honest, maybe they put together all their existing Facebook lives and they call it an E course. Maybe they put together old content that they had sitting around and they call it an E course. The people that are doing that are hurting our industry, for those people who really are trying to create growth out there, who are really trying to create help out there. Now, don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of repurposing your content. So if you have a bunch of Facebook lives and you put it together and do an E course, awesome. But price it accordingly. Don't price it at $500. It's just, you know, your past year worth of Facebook lives and there's no workbook, there's no follow up, there's no community, there's no way for them to tap into you because that's not doing anyone a service, that's a money grab.

Right.

But if you repurpose it into a very affordable introduction to here's what I represent and here's some of the lessons that I would like to teach you. And if you take the time to make sure it's that it's also a community where they can meet other like minded people and take the time to make sure that there's some kind of study guide or timeline or follow up system to help increase accountability, well then you're doing the right thing. Because at the end of the day, human nature is to not follow through. It's sad and we're all guilty of it, but human nature is to not follow through. So people sign up in the moment of excitement, in the moment of need, and then the same reason that they're in the position that they're in is the same reason that they won't follow through with the rest of the course.

Totally.

And then who do they blame? They don't blame themselves. They say, oh, see, another course that ripped me off. And they tell everybody about it when really they didn't follow through. And so if you're gonna build any kind of course, any kind of event, any kind of any product to help people, make sure that there's a timeline, make sure there's accountability, make sure that there's a follow up system, make sure there's a chance for them to roll up their sleeves and get deep course through coursework or vlogging or all sorts of different cool things that you can do to help people lock it in. Because that's our responsibility, quite honestly, any of us are creating courses, events, writing books, all that stuff, it's our responsibility to not just put out good content, but to help people stick to and experience all of that content through the end.

Totally. And I think we've all kind of heard, oh, automate, automate. And then we're putting this on such a pedestal, this like it's the results that matter. Because if you automated this course and no one's ever finished it, they're not going to go and tell their friends and everything is word of mouth at the End of the day, it really is.

And you can still, I'm a huge fan of automation. You can still automate your course and have accountability built in, no problem. For example, you can ask them to vlog at the end of each module. That's a form of accountability, especially when they're vlogging into a closed Facebook group for that course. Because other people are, they're saying, hey, hey, where's your vlog this week? And you know, they're helping enroll that person in finishing. So that's one example. So you know, I'm all about automation. As long as you are being very conscious of including forms of accountability and ways to lock it in while you're building that automation.

Yeah, I mean, I just see from my own programs, I have a program that is a 12 week program and it's like, you know, teachable, it's all automated. And I see maybe 10% of people actually follow through and do it.

Yeah.

And then I have another one which is like a four week program and it's priced higher and. But every week I'm on the live call and it has that vlogging and everyone does it because they don't want to be on the live call and have no idea what just happened.

So listen to the beautiful thing that you just said. You've got a 12 week course and you notice that people really taper off because there's no accountability. And you have a four week course where you are highly evolved, but it costs more. But what's the end result? They're getting way more growth out of it.

Exactly.

So you just proved the case of charging more for your product so that you don't mind showing up during this four week program. Right. Because it's an energy exchange. You're giving them your coaching, you're giving them their energy and in return you're asking for more money than the 12 week course. I'm guessing. I don't know. But is that true? And so you're charging accordingly because you have more skin in the game and you're helping them have more skin in the game. That was a beautiful example right there.

Totally. Yeah. And I think that sometimes people create these programs and it's way too long and it's way too drawn out. Like, I know I've never done B school, but I think it's like eight weeks, the whole course. And it's like sometimes when you drag things out for so long, it loses that momentum and people want to learn the takeaways so they can go and apply it in their lives.

So Lori and I are in our busiest season we've ever been in right now, like, blessed to be busy, really cool stuff going on. And we just released a nine week module, which in my opinion is stretching it like nine weeks. You're getting pretty long there. And to help hold people accountable, we offer a live coaching session as a group that we do via Zoom for 90 minutes every single Monday for nine weeks during the nine weeks of the program. Now, does that fit well into our schedule right now? Absolutely not. Do we have the bandwidth right now to do that in a comfortable way? If I'm being honest, no. But guess what? We put it in there anyways because we knew that's what people needed and it was about doing the right thing, not doing the convenient part. Here we are in week five and people are loving it. They're still involved and we actually have not seen any taper off in the number of people that show up for the weekly group coaching. That's our responsibility, whether we're busy or not, to make sure those things are built in. Otherwise maybe now is not a good time for you to put your course out there if you are not going to have some form of accountability where you know you did your best.

Absolutely. And I think this, this is such good advice for people that people who want to transition into one on one to group show up still in some way because at the end of the day, they're paying to be close to you and you are the thing that's driving it through. So if you're not involved, they're going to feel like, oh, I might as well just kept following her on Instagram.

Yeah, absolutely. Let's put a bow on it like this. Be responsible, be loving. Come from a place of, of insisting upon creating growth in other human beings. And if you promise to stick to that, then naturally you're going to build your course the right way. If you're not coming from those places, then it's going to turn into an accidental money grab. And that's where people start developing these stories about money, quite honestly. So you can be a part of the solution by coming from a place of growth and love and doing it the right way. Or you can be a part of the problem by coming from a place of, of taking shortcuts and turning it into a money grab.

Love that. Well, so much great advice. I hope everyone was taking notes this episode. So where can people connect with you and listen to your amazing podcast?

So my favorite way to connect for some reason is Instagram. I Don't know why that platform is the one that reaches me. So I'm Chris W. Harder on there. Chris W. Harder on Instagram and go to fortheloveofmoney.com that's F O R for the loveofmoney.com to check out the podcast. It'll invite you to subscribe on your favorite platform. I would love to get feedback on what you guys think of the episodes.

Well, thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom with us. I'm sure everyone has like some fire under their seat right now going out there, taking action. And thank you for coming from such a place of integrity and alignment because there are very few entrepreneurs who have that genuine desire to serve and to make people's lives better. And you have that to your aligned and taking action. So thank you so much for really embodying that and for being an embodiment of the sacred masculine and what it can be now.

You know what? Thank you for creating the space for me to show up and have this conversation. It's a conversation, like you said, to kick this whole thing off, that we don't have enough, that we don't concentrate on enough. And so the fact that you take the time, you create the platform, this is you serving in a way that you know how to serve for everybody out there who's ready to be served. So the pleasure is mine. I'm super grateful.

Thank you. Namaste.

Namaste.

Whoa. How amazing was that episode? I'm sure you've taken lots of notes. Your mind is spitting with business information and you are excited to go out there and create an online business doing what you love. And I am so excited for you too. So thank you, Chris, for sharing your wisdom with us. Check out his podcast too. And if you want to dive deeper into this with me as your business mentor, please join me on the Abundance Mindset Masterclass. It is going to change your relationship with money, with entrepreneurship and and base it on your dosha, what it is that you are meant to do, what kind of entrepreneur that you are, what are your unique money blocks and how you can overcome them for your unique constitution. There's nothing else out there like this and I'm so honored and so excited to bring it to you. So head over to the show notes, head over to im sahararose.com you'll see it right there. And I can't wait to meet you on the Abundance Mindset Masterclass. Namaste J.