170: Discussing Open Relationships with Aubrey Marcus

Namaste, it's Sahara Rose. And welcome back to the Highest Self podcast, a place where we discuss what makes you your soul's highest development. Okay, the time has come that I'm recording the intro to this episode. This episode has definitely been the one that has ruffled my feathers in a good way the most of any of the episodes I've done, because it's really caused me to question my own life and the way that I've looked at things. Not that I'm gonna be polyamorous now, guys, but sitting with Aubrey Marcus talking about open relationships, as well as his book, which is amazing, was something that definitely pressed my buttons. So I don't want to get too into it. I'll describe more about how I was feeling at the end of the episode because I really want to allow him to speak from his perspective without my narrative in your head. But just as a precursor. Aubrey Marcus is an author. He just wrote this best selling book, Own youn Day, which we talk about at the beginning of this episode. And he's also really well known for being in an open relationship with his fiance, Whitney. They've been together for five years, which he's going to tell us about in this episode. And about three years ago decided that they want to open it up, which means that they want to romantically and sexually see other people. And he talks about the hardships and what that meant and where they're at now. And of course, with any type of relationship, things are always changing, let alone open relationships. But shortly after this episode, actually about two days after we did this interview, Aubrey got into a really horrible car accident and he suddenly lost consciousness. And he drove into the side of the highway, like in the middle of the day, totally sober. And he said something just came over him and he drove into the sideway. His car was totally totaled. And they were surprised that he survived. And luckily he is alive and thriving. His face got semi injured. He does not look the same as he used to. And with that, you know, deformity comes questioning who you are on a deeper way. And this has allowed him to even deepen his understanding of spirit and relationships. And what does it mean to be a handsome guy and have that handsome card taken away from you? So that was a really interesting thing that happened after this episode. And I was wondering how that would change him being in an open relationship if after such a tragedy, if maybe he would decide to become monogamous with his partner because they went through something that was so traumatic, but they have not. He actually, from His Instagram. I see he has multiple partners, about four partners that I saw. And they all came together and were, like, sitting on a couch with his four girlfriends and, you know, helping him get through it. And it's been really triggering, but also expanding for me to see this as someone who is in a monogamous relationship and has always been in monogamous relationships. I'm thinking, well, why do you need four girlfriends to feel better? Like, why can't one just be enough for you? I mean, I don't even have time for one relationship, let alone multiple. But what I've really learned from following his work is that this is just the way that some people operate. And for some people, there's no other choice. Monogamy does not work for them. They cannot see see themselves in a monogamous relationship. So the only way for them to truly love someone is to also open it up to other people. And I also understand the rationale of that. You know, there's not necessarily only one person out there for you. There can be multiple or even hundreds of people. Like, let's say a soulmate was one in a million. Well, there are hundreds of millions of people out there, so it does make sense that there could be hundreds of people out there that you could relate with and create a beautiful relationship. So his perspective on it is, well, why should that stop there? Why should. If I meet someone else, should it stop at, oh, we're just going to be friends, but I'm in a relationship. Why can't that move into dancing and into kissing and into sex and into a romantic relationship? Why draw the line there? So it was something that I was really closed off to and blocked against and didn't understand and judgmental about at the beginning. I'm not going to lie to you guys, and you may feel the same way while listening to this, but since doing this episode and really opening up to it, I understand totally where they're coming from. And I think that polyamory can work for people. I think it is definitely a harder path to choose than monogamy. I think even though monogamy may not always feel natural, it is, you know, fighting against your human urges to procreate with more people. But I do think that with the polyamory, it's just opening up, you know, a lot of emotions and potential, you know, misconceptions and things you have to work through. And I and Aubrey would agree that it is the harder path, but that was just the path. Path that him and his partners have chosen. So it's something that I think I should just do another one, just like riffing on, because it's something that I've definitely been learning about. And I have been listening to a book called Sex at Dawn, which is a book about polyamorous relationships, because I I think anytime you have a judgment about something, that's something that you have to look deeper into. So I'm opening up to really understanding this perspective. And I think Aubry is the perfect person to bring it to the Highest Self podcast because he's someone who's written about it, he has a free ebook about it and someone who's been doing it and very open about how they've been doing it. So without further ado, let's welcome Aubrey Marcus to the Highest Self Podcast. And before we get started, check out these brands that make Highest Self Podcast possible. This episode is brought to you by uva. UVA is a modernized ayurvedic supplement company that takes certain issues that we have, such as moving mood joints, immunity, digestion, and creates these custom little packets exactly for us, infusing ancient Ayurvedic herbs with modern vitamins and minerals. I take the mood formula daily. It is great if you work a stressful job, had adrenal fatigue, ever suffer from anxiety or even depression, and it really heals you from a fundamental and holistic level. So if you want to try it out, head over to UVA. Y o u v dash.com use the code Sahara and you'll receive 35% off your first order. And they now ship to almost every country globally. So check it out. If you live internationally, they may be shipping to your country too. And they just added India. Guys, welcome Aubrey to the Highest Self Podcast. It's so great to have you here.

Yeah, pleasure to be on.

So the first question that I would love to ask you is what makes you your highest self?

I think that our highest self is always inside us. It's really who we truly are and it's only those other aspects of ourself, our own fears, our own delusions, our ego that gets in the way of our highest self expressing, you know, as it really is. And I think for me, I've spent a lot of my life trying to find the ways to bring forward my highest self and kind of cut through the clouds and delusions that come up from my small self. So, you know, I can always feel my highest self because, you know, I can feel my highest self and laughter and in awe and enjoy and love and whenever I'm out of those States, you know, it tends to be. I'm really expressing and dealing with some of the. Some of the fog and some of the clouds that might have rolled in.

Mm. So true. And really your. Your new book, own the Day, which just became a New York Times bestseller, and congratulations on that, is truly about becoming your highest self and the practices that you've put together for waking, working, learning, eating, training, playing, sleeping, and sex. So I'd love to know what was your process like, figuring out kind of like the best things, because that's a lot of pressure to be like, these are the optimal practices. What did that process look like for you?

Well, it's been really a lifelong process, you know, even before I started on it, which was seven years ago, which really accelerated everything because it gave me access to the best doctors and thought leaders and researchers and athletes and peak performers. So I've been able to really accelerate the learning process through that. But even prior to that, you know, my life is one of, you know, learning, knowledge, experimentation, and really trying to get the best out of myself. So, you know, this book is. There's over 300 clinical research articles cited, but it's also experiential. These are all things that I've put into practice and the other top people have put into practice. And you'd be surprised when you really get to the peak performer level. You know, there's more limited amount of variation than you would think if you kind of looked at, just googled the Internet about what the best diet is and what the best practices are when it really counts. And you really need to get the best out of yourself. You know, a lot of these things, you know, you'll find are similar across a variety of different professions and a variety of different people.

Yes. So what are a few of those things that you've kind of seen across the board?

Well, I think you gotta be able to use the natural environment around you to your advantage. So that includes utilizing light. So making sure that you're going, getting some sunlight early in the day and that you're minimizing the light exposure to yourself at night. That'll help balance your circadian rhythm, help manage your hormones like melatonin, I think utilizing hydration, making sure that not only the water you're taking in, but the electrolytes is optimized. So I recommend starting with that morning mineral cocktail, which is a couple grams of Himalayan salt, splash of lemon, 12 to 16 ounces of water to combat the dehydration you get overnight. I think utilizing breath, you know, breath is available to us at all different points of time, but we hardly pay attention to it. But studies have shown that just six deep breaths is enough to lower blood pressure and change your state of consciousness. So, you know, just having that resource available to us at all times, and then heat and cold, you know, those are incredibly valuable for diminishing stress, dropping cortisol levels, lowering inflammation, increasing energy levels, increasing longevity. And so utilizing the cold and the hot. I mean, these are all things that are totally free and available to us anytime we want. We just have to know how to access them and how to use them. And then, of course, movement and sex and sleep and all of these other things that don't cost us anything, at least shouldn't cost us anything, you know, have immense, immense benefit.

Yes. And I know your morning cocktail is something that you preach a lot about, and I recently started taking trace minerals. Would you still prefer the pink Himalayan sea salt to the trace minerals or just whatever?

I would say both. I don't think that's an either. I don't think that's an either scenario. I think that's an and scenario. The Himalayan salt does have trace minerals. So it has, depending on where your source is, somewhere between 60 to 84 trace minerals. But the trace minerals that you're getting have probably a highly reduced kind of macro level of the sodium. So it's more focused on the minerals themselves because salt still has a high proportion of sodium chloride and then a smaller proportion of the trace minerals. And you do need the sodium. Sodium isn't bad for you. That's an old myth that isn't really true. The body requires salt to function optimally. We're really like a saltwater aquarium, mostly made up of salt and water. But nonetheless, adding in those extra trace minerals is only going to be beneficial. I think of minerals like stocking the shelves of the hardware store of the body. So if the body's trying to repair itself, like the shelves of Home Depot are filled with minerals, and the body uses these minerals for all kinds of different processes, from adrenal to cognitive to hormonal. Everything really depends on having adequate mineral load.

So true. And I think a lot of us have kind of been told if you consume salt, you're instantly going to get puffy and bloated and you won't be able to see your muscle definition. But clearly, I mean, with you, that's not the case.

Yeah, it's called hydrated. That's like, we have all of these words like, oh, yeah, puffy, bloated, blah, blah, blah, no, it's just hydrated. You know, that's really, that's really what it is. Yeah. All right, maybe if you're in a bodybuilding competition in the last, you know, six hours, you want to shed some water so your skin is less hydrated. Okay, fine. But like, we're not in a walking bodybuilding competition, you know, so definitely making sure you're hydrated is going to help you on all areas across the board. It'll help you make better decisions about what to eat and whether to move or whether to work out. You know, it's like people are just putting the priorities in the wrong place.

Absolutely, yes. And I'd love to know, and while you were kind of studying all these practices, if you ever came across any Ayurvedic practices like tongue scraping or oil pulling or dry brushing, you know, that's.

Just not really a part of the world that I'm, you know, most intimately involved in. And I've obviously, I have a ranch in Sedona and there's some great ayurvedic inspired restaurants like Chocolate Tree and a couple other places. And certainly when I've interacted with practitioners who are aware of some of the herbs and things that might be valuable, like, you know, shilaji. I'm a big fan of shilaji and of course like ashwagandha and some of the more common herbs that you would find in that practice. But as far as utilizing that as an overall health philosophy, you know, I'm really, really a novice there, so I'd love to learn more about that. As if I can.

Yeah. So do you know what your dosha is? What your, like, constitution is?

No, I don't. I know that there's. I know the names of a couple of them, but I don't know if I know what I am.

Yeah, so there's vata, pitta and kapha. And you are very pitta. Everyone listening is going to be like, oh my God, he's so pitta. So pitta's fire. And if I were just to kind of read what a pitta person were like, I would just describing you. So mentally, fire is like organized discipline, goal oriented, structured, natural born leader, great speaker, which are all strengths that you obviously have. Then the flip side, and I don't know if this is the case with you sometimes can get like easily frustrated or irritated or annoyed just because you have a very strong sense of how things are supposed to be. So maybe when other people aren't as committed as you, that can become a source of frustration. I don't know if that's true for, for you or not.

Well, certainly there's aspects of that that express in the shadow. I think I'm kind of a mixed, a mixed bag because certainly I have a lot of those elements that you talk about. But you know, there's also times where I'm pretty chill. I would say maybe a mix of what's the one that's not the earth one. I don't think I'm that one.

The earth one is Kapha, which I think when we'll talk about your plant medicine experience. But you definitely have a strong connection to the earth, but not the shadow side of the earth, which is like, to be like lazy and that sort of stu. But yeah, I see a lot of pitts in you. Even your body structure, the shape of your face. You have like a structured face and you're very muscular and you're a natural born athlete. Do you ever have acidity issues or heartburn? Has that ever showed up for you?

Not really. That's, you know, I manage that. But, you know, I've always been kind of aware of that. My diet is, you know, pretty sound and you know, I take additional digestive enzymes and HCl and, you know, I can manage that. But I, I would say that I would probably run a little hot, you know, like there's no doubt that, you know, if I analyze things, probably more acidic and probably more like hot, you know, so that would make sense.

Cool. Yeah, it's something interesting to look into. Maybe if you write another book, you can start researching out. Some Ayurvedic things can definitely really supplement. And a lot of the stuff that you're saying with the circadian rhythm, et cetera, is like the same that Ayurveda and Chinese medicine and all of these ancient health systems are all saying.

Mm. It's really interesting how there's so many different systems that, you know, all fundamentally are kind of saying the same thing, just with different language and different understandings of the composition and, and different ways to go about it. But yeah, it's. It's always really cool. Same with different religious systems, you know, a lot of ways up the mountain, but typically pointing to the very similar.

Truth for sure, because it's just the same universal truth that moves through us and shows up in different ways. And I'd love to talk about journey towards seeking truth. And I know that plant medicine was a large part of that. And it's something that you are really like bringing into the mainstream and eliminating a lot of, like, the fears and uncertainties about that. So can you share with us a little bit about your journey with the plants?

Well, I don't. I'm. I'm probably spread as many fears as I've eliminated because I've just acknowledged that there's a certain aspect of the plant medicines that is terrifying. You know, you're leaving the known and traveling into the unknown and exploring the dark, shadowy realms of yourself. But I think there's really no better tool. If you're ready and it's the right set and the right setting with the right intention and everything you know is at the right time for you, there's no better way to integrate some of that shadow material into your whole self and really have a sense of knowing who you are and dealing with your shit and then also connecting to that, you know, higher self that you have. The higher self within us and the higher self without which obviously, you could collapse that and say it's the same thing, but nonetheless, like, connecting to those higher faculties and the divine within and without, and also digging deep into the roots and recognizing what trauma patterns and what other shadow material that you have to take a look at. And the plants are an amazing tool at helping you really discover that. Both sides of those. Both sides of the coin.

Totally, yes. And I think a lot of people right now, they are almost thinking, oh, well, if I just sit with ayahuasca, that's going to solve all my issues. So at what point do you think people would be ready to begin their plant medicine journey? Is there a certain amount of work that you should do beforehand, or do you think that's a really good place to start?

Well, I think there's a sense of knowing and a sense of being called to the medicine that I think you really have to listen to. So you have to be mindful of your why, you know, if you want to do ayahuasca because it's trendy and your friends have probably not the right reason if you want to do it because you feel like it's a boy Scout or Girl Scout spiritual badge that you get to put on yourself and, you know, be part of the club. Like, that's not the reason. But if you're called to the medicine to do the healing, you know, I really feel like we're connected on a subconscious, unconscious level with, you know, through the collective, with all these plants. And I think there will be a calling that you'll feel. So I think that's one thing to really pay attention to. The other is, you know, do some of the other work first. You know, don't go in there if you've never done yoga or if you've never done ecstatic dance or any kind of breath work or any kind of sensory deprivation or done anything to get still and see what's under the surface. When you stop your perpetual action and perpetual distraction and all the things that keep you moving and running from, you know, the shadow and what's underneath the surface. So take some time to sit with yourself and process some of that first. And then, you know, if you're called to the plants, they can be an immense, immense healer.

Totally. And I love that you're a huge advocate of ecstatic dance, because I'm in love with ecstatic dance. It really, like, saved my life. And it's something that I think a lot of us need more of, because when we think of, you know, dancing, it's so looking at other people and at a club, no one's even really dancing. And just the process of somatically releasing things is in itself such a shamanic thing. Tool that every society in the planet has used.

Yeah, it's so underrated, and it's right in front of our face. It's another one of those things like breath, you know, it's like we're breathing all the time. It's around us all the time. But until you actually pay attention and do it with intention, then you really see how powerful it is. And, yeah, ecstatic dance has been one of the best tools that I've been able to access, because I think there's a lot of emotion that gets stored somatically in the body, and it's very difficult to release it without actually moving your body with it. And dance has, you know, the really incredible power to allow you to access these emotional states or these shadowy states, especially a guided ecstatic dance, but then also move it completely through your body. Whereas if you're just kind of doing some kind of primal therapy or like punching pillows or something like that, I feel like the energetic residue of those emotions gets stuck and you don't quite get it all out. Even though you might be able to kind of lance the blister to a certain degree, like you don't actually move it through, whereas dance is just such a healthy way to get it not only out of your psyche, but get it out of your cells.

Oh, for sure. Are you familiar with the Osho Dynamic Meditation?

So I am. I haven't practiced it extensively myself, but, yeah, I am familiar. Do you practice?

I stayed at the Osho ashram before? I don't practice it regularly, but there is a huge element of. I mean, it goes in these five stages, but one of them is you go crazy and you punch pillows and you scream and you shout and that very cathartic release. And then he says, stop. And you sit, you stand in whatever position you were in. So maybe there's an arm up in the air. Maybe you're on the floor, and for 20 minutes, you're just in that position without moving, just, like, noticing your breath, the sweat, everything you just generated. And he's like, now celebrate. And then for 20 minutes, you just dance. And you're supposed to start every single day like that.

Wow, that's cool. Yeah, I think, you know, I watched that documentary Wild Wild country, and I think one of the things they really missed is they didn't show why people were following Osho to begin with and, like, what the practices were that bound the community together. They just talked about all the shenanigans. I'm like, well, okay, I get the shenanigans part, but why were every. Why was everybody there in the first place? You know? So I'm super curious to experience what that dynamic meditation is all about.

Yeah, I. I definitely think they kind of left him himself as this, like, shadowy figure and focused way more on the drama because obviously it's Netflix, but there's obviously something to it if that many people, like, move to Oregon for it.

Right? Yeah. Something. Something had to be dope.

Yes, totally. So you talk a lot about your relationship and how you and your fiance are in an open relationship. And I put on my Instagram, what questions do you have for Aubry? And of course, this question came up. So I'm sure you're like, I'm sorry.

You'Re like, I wrote a book about.

Owning your day, and this is what you want to talk about, but I have faith you're going to write your next book about this.

It's actually two books from now, but, yeah, I'm definitely going to write a book about it.

Okay, great. Well, I downloaded your guide, and I got a lot of the questions people had. You answered so well in the guide. So if people do want to learn more, please download Aubrey's guide about this. But people wanted to know how you guys kind of made the decision to be open. Was that one person who wanted it? Was it the result of cheating, or was it something that you mutually brought up?

You know, for me, I tend to be an anxious person if I'm going to be anything, you know, so that's the dragon that I have to fight the most commonly. And if I'm doing something dishonest, I can't handle it, you know, so I've never, I've never been a cheater. And it's not because I'm on some moral high horse. It's just basically that I couldn't handle the dishonesty in my own constitution, you know. And I also don't agree with the, the concept in general, but I'm not trying to say like, I'm just so morally implacable that I, it's just for me, I couldn't handle holding and carrying big secrets like that. It doesn't work for me. So. But I also recognize in myself that I've never been one who can look at the experiences available in life. Whether that's an amazing food or an amazing place to go, or an amazing person I could get to interact with and say, oh no, I'm good, you know, I don't want to know what that's like. I don't want to know what being with that person or trying that thing or going to that place is like. So inevitably I would have, you know, relationships that would go in 18 month to 2 year cycles where I would, you know, dive really deep with somebody and then like meet someone or want to experience something that was different, that was new, that was another aspect that was available. And so I would end up, you know, breaking up with the person, sometimes getting back together, but always having gaps where I could go explore. And this pattern came up again with Whitney. We were monogamous for two years and that was actually the only two year stint of her life where she was actually faithful. She's cheated on everybody. She doesn't have the same anxiety issues that I do. So, you know, and what was really happening is, is both of us were kind of, the relationship was kind of getting stale and I was kind of getting my own wanderlust and she was getting her own wanderlust and there was some resentment that were building up and our monogamous relationship started to, you know, get really kind of dull. At that point we just kind of had a talk and I was like, I'd recently read Sex at Dawn. I was like, look, I think I recognize this pattern in myself. I don't think I'm a person who can be content not exploring the world and kind of experiencing people that I meet to the fullest. And you know, I know that our relationship hasn't been that strong recently. And so I said I'd Be interested in exploring open relationship. And she was basically at that point, like, I don't think I can do it. You know, I love you, but I don't think I can do it. And I was like, I love you, too, basically. Let me know if you change your mind. So we ended up splitting up. She took a trip, spent a couple of months in Thailand and cruising around, and I started dating. And then as she came back, we started talking more because we really still loved each other and decided to give it a go. You know, I was the first one to have a lover, and she had to deal with a lot of that. And as I was looking back, I was thinking about how hard it was for her to deal with it, and I was kind of saying, oh, why is this so hard for you? We agreed to this. And then she got her first lover. And I spent, like, three days crawling around on the ground, like, trying not to vomit in, like, the worst emotional pain in my life. And I was like, oh, I see what you were feeling. This is. This is a different. This is a different thing.

Only imagine. Yeah.

Yeah. But, you know, through that, we've continued to work and work on ourselves and work on our own insecurities and our own need for validation and our own that comes up and our ego and, you know, continue to come back together and be as open and vulnerable and honest with ourselves and each other. And certainly this has been by far the best relationship that I've ever had in my life and led to the deepest love and definitely the most passion. I mean, to have as much physical passion as Whitney and I have, you know, almost seven years into the relationship, is just really mind blowing. And I think it's one of the byproducts of leaving your partner completely free, without any ownership, without any possession, without any, you know, need to control them, and just trusting that every day, you know, that you're together is a choice. And it's just a really beautiful, beautiful experience that's come with a lot of pain and a lot of challenge.

Yeah. And out of curiosity, I'm wondering, do you think it's the result of your testosterone or Whitney's testosterone levels that you both, like, have this drive to, like, accept, experience more people?

Well, that would be. That would mean that, like, testosterone obviously linked to sexual. Like, sexual activity. Right. Like, if you have high testosterone means you want to have sex with everybody. Sex is a small component of this, surprisingly, believe it or not. Like, there's so much more to experiencing someone than the actual act of pulling down your pants. And using your engorged genitals to create friction, like that's a part of it. But there's so much more to people than. Than that that, you know, there's just going out on a date and spending time and, like, holding somebody and experiencing them in the full gamut of what's available. Like, I think all the. All too often, everybody focuses on sex because sex is this thing that has so much juju in our society when really it's a very, very simple thing. It's a very normal, natural act. And like, a lot of the other elements that come from being with someone are really where a lot of the magic is. Now, I'm not going to say sex isn't great and it isn't a big part of this, but there's so many other aspects of it that it's really satisfying just to even go out on a date and spend some time and not have to worry, like, hey, I'm going to go go to a movie with my, you know, with my girlfriend that I'm not sexually active with, or she's going to come spend the night and we're just going to hang out and talk. And, you know, all of these options are now available that don't even include sex. And so it's really a combination of both. So. So I wouldn't link it just to sexuality. I would link it to actually just having the freedom to explore people of the opposite sex in any variety of ways.

Okay. Yeah. Because they're all so different. I know some open relationships, it's strictly sexual, but the romance is only between the primary partners. And then others are. They can be all in relationships. So I'd love to know, did you guys, like, establish any rules and what do those rules look like?

Well, we started with a lot of rules, and then we realized that the more rules we had, the more frustrated with each other we got and the more resentful we got with each other as well. So the rules slowly kind of relax. I mean, at first it was like that. Like, okay sex, but you can't have any feelings. Well, people are emotional beings, you know, so to expect Whitney or myself even, but particularly Whitney, to be sexually open to receiving a man, but not emotionally open to him. Like, I don't know what kind of circus trick I was, you know, anticipating that I was gonna. That she was gonna pull, because it's not realistic and nor is it completely realistic for me. I don't think there's that much of a discrepancy. But I do think there Is something. A certain type of surrender that comes with the female act of sexuality. Typically that, you know, actually you're actually receiving a man inside your emotional body, like inside your emotional chakras. It's very difficult to remove that from all emotion. Nor necessarily should you. I mean, you can if you want. You know, everybody can do whatever the hell they want. But I think that that rule was something that we had to let go pretty quickly, you know, and really we just have basically instead of rules, kind of guidelines and. Well, one rule is absolute. There's no exceptions for honesty because basically everything is permitted. So if everything's permitted, you have to be ruthlessly honest. So even the slightest dishonesty or the slightest shading of the picture or overspinning the cue ball or like, kind of like, you know, putting a little more spin on something that is just completely unacceptable. Like we have to be ruthlessly honest because, you know, ultimately we accept everything that the other person, you know, wants. So there's no room for dishonesty. So that's kind of the base rule. And then everything else is just a guideline, you know. And the guideline is that we're primary partners, you know, we're not going to do anything that's of, you know, intentional detriment to each other and, you know, etc. We're not going to get in a toxic relationship. We're not going to do anything that kind of hurts other people. These are the kind of other. Other concepts that we have. But it's mostly the one rule is just be brutally honest.

Beautiful and. Yeah. And something that every relationship really could benefit from. Just more honesty.

Well, it's. The problem is, is that when there's failure to acknowledge the truth of human nature in that people are going to be attracted to other people and the expectation is that that isn't the case, then there's a punishment for the honesty. Like you say one thing to your friends and then you say one thing to your partner. I don't think open relationship is for most people. I'm not an advocate saying everybody should be open, but I think everybody should recognize who human beings are at the core and be able to be honest with each other about it. And so that if you're not seeing anybody or if you're not acting on your attraction to anybody, that's totally cool and a great choice. But nonetheless, you should be able to be honest about what you feel and honest about the sacrifice that you're making. Because, you know, it is a sacrifice not to go out on a date with someone you find attractive or be able to dance closely with, someone who you're vibing with on the dance floor, whatever. But to be able to just openly express that. I think if people get anything from, you know, this experiment that me and Whitney had, you know, it's just that. Just at least get to the point where you can be radically honest with your partner about what you feel and receive that honesty without getting offended and triggered. Effy.

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After it happened, if there's any opportunity to mention it before then we do. And you know, we, we talk about it, we ask about it. If it's one of those just situations where we're out and something happens fast and the other person might be asleep or we're in a different city and it just doesn't really make sense, then we can talk about it afterwards. But honestly that happens really rarely. I think people hypothesize that this is like a super active scenario. Like we're constantly hooking up. I mean we've each had in four years, we've each had maybe four to six lovers each, you know, like total. So it's not like it's that active a process. But you know, we do have that kind of guideline where even if it's just going to be kissing somebody or something like that, like if there is attraction and something's happening, we try to mention it in advance. But if. If, for whatever reason doesn't make sense, then we can talk about it afterwards.

Okay. Yeah. I'm sure people are like, you guys must be hooking up every. All the time.

But you're both like, yeah, it's just. Yeah, everybod. Everybody imagines like an orgy every night, you know, because we can. Of course we will. And I think that's people also projecting.

Their own, for sure.

Their own repression and frustration. Like, if you can't do something, it's going to be on your mind constantly. But when you have the freedom to do what you want, then you actually really get to decide how often and how wild do you want to be? And. And typically, when you have that freedom, that that really crazy need for it starts to, you know, pull back a little bit.

Absolutely. So are there any people that are off limits, like friends or someone, you know, you both mutually met at the same time or. Or is anything fair game?

It's actually easier when it's somebody that you know. And that might be counterintuitive, but the hardest are the people that you don't know at all, at least, especially for me. So when Whitney meets a total stranger on a trip and I've never met him, because then I have no. I have nothing to validate that he actually has our best interest in mind at all, you know, and there's been situations that have come up where those people have been more manipulative to a certain degree just because they're not really. They're more in it for themselves. They don't see the bigger picture. They don't know, you know, who we are as a couple, what we're trying to build. So it actually. It's better the closer they are to the group. And that's, again, probably counterintuitive, but it's a lot easier and it's a lot healthier if it's somebody that we both know. And really, the challenges. Most of the challenges have developed when it was somebody who is, you know, kind of outside the group.

Wow. I mean, you must have such a strong mind, because for most people, if it's someone you know, you would be, like, imagining what are their conversations like, what are they doing right now? And you would start to create all these stories because you have so much more information.

Yeah, but when you don't have the information, you just fantasize about the worst possible scenario. Right. Like, at least if you know who the person is, you're not going to, like, imagine that they're doing the Craziest thing possible. Like, I think my mind is actually probably weak in that if I don't know them, I fill in the blanks. And it's basically, she's being held captive by an eight foot ogre in a castle and, you know, tied up in the dungeon somewhere. And all they're doing is having sex for 17 hours a day. Like, that's where my head goes if I don't have any other evidence to point to the contrary.

So that's so funny. So would you hang out with each other's lovers altogether? Is that something you guys do?

Yeah, we do. Yep.

Okay, cool. And is it ever like you guys bring your lovers into your relationship in a threesome or a polyamorous setting? Or is it more just like they do it off on their own?

You know, we have. But the, you know, Whitney isn't, isn't particularly bisexual, so it's not like something that she enjoys. It's more like, hey, OB, it's your birthday, let's get your other lover together and we'll do something. It's more like that situation rather than something that's pretty consistent. And I'm not particularly turned on by the multiple guy scenario either. And so that hasn't really happened. So it's mostly we just see different people on our own, you know, kind of one on one. But it's not like a hard rule there. You know, there certainly are exceptions and have been exceptions, but typically, you know, I mean, we're talking like a couple exceptions in years of being together.

Totally. And the other lovers, are they typically just single or are they also in open relationships?

Typically they've been single. And that's also a challenge in that. And I think it just speaks to the, the fact that there's just not a lot of people in open relationships. And I think the most stable construct would be to be in an open relationship with somebody who's in an open relationship. That actually creates the most stability. But just because it's such an uncommon practice, I don't. Neither one of us have been in that situation. Now some people, particularly men. Men will say, oh yeah, I'm in an open relationship. It's don't ask, don't tell.

Right.

And really what that means is my partner hasn't asked and I haven't told her, so. Which is not an open relationship. That's cheating.

Yeah.

So, you know, we've heard the don't ask, don't tell thing a few times and now we just kind of laugh when people say that because it Never really is actually that it's more just, you know, some level of dishonesty.

Right. And I mean, I think just that moment of telling your lover, and you wrote this so beautifully in your open relationship guide, but like, you end up hurting the post person that you love the most. And that is so hard. But you have to really remember the bigger picture of why you're doing this.

Yeah, exactly. Know that, you know, resistance creates adaptation and all of these feelings, these feelings of jealousy and these feelings of self worth and self love and, you know, lack of validation and anything that's coming up, like this is all an opportunity to look at that stuff and, you know, integrate, you know, your own self worth and your own self love and your own self validation so that you don't need that externally and it's not dependent on your partner and it's not dependent on who you're with or anything external, be it your Instagram or your job or your lover, your bank account or what you look like in the mirror. Like, know that none of that stuff actually makes you valid and makes you worthy. All of that stuff comes from within. And open relationship really forces you to build that reserve of inner self confidence and inner self validation.

Yes. And you wrote a beautiful poem about the woman, and she is a unicorn and she's free and expressing herself. So you became the universe. And I think that just describes it so beautifully.

Yeah, that poem was from a really dark time actually for me. It was when Whitney was with a lover that was really challenging for me to deal with. And I recognized that the only way I could get out of my own difficult situation was to really understand that it wasn't her choosing between me and him. You know, it was. And there was any reason to compare. Like if I shifted my point of identification to include all of the world and all men and all, you know, all the universe itself, then she was making love to me, even though she wasn't with me physically because she was making love to me expressed as the universe. And it's a very kind of metaphysical, metaphysical position to take. But it was ultimately what led me out so that I could actually enjoy that. Oh, well, Whitney is making love to me. It's just not my body and not my hands and not, you know, my lips that are on her, but me as the universe. She's making love to me. And as long as I identify as the universe, she'll always be making love to me. Me. And that's the. That's something. That's a position I wouldn't have Gotten to if it were not for the discomfort of being in that, in that particular situation. So it almost forces, you know, a higher level of consciousness out of necessity.

Yeah, I mean, you have to really understand oneness to know that we are all one and that these different human costumes we're all wearing are just, just, you know, little disguises for the same soul being. So I'd love to know that. How has this practice kind of transitioned and affected your other spiritual practices?

Well, it forces you to actually put your money where your mouth is to a certain degree. Right. Like you can think, oh yeah, I'm super conscious. I have great self love. I'm internally self validated, you know, and then let the love of your life go sleep with somebody and see how those spiritual practices hold up.

Up.

You don't really know yourself unless you test yourself. And I think this is the ultimate test. This is what's shown me that I can have actual conversion. I can get pleasure from someone else's pleasure just purely like if Whitney's happy, I can be happy for Whitney's happiness purely. And I can recognize myself as same with someone who, I don't know who's making love to her. That is an ultimate practice of oneness. And it's not like I can stay there the whole time, but I know that I can actually feel that when tested and when actually challenged. And also that I can overcome feelings of jealousy or envy or challenges to my own ego. And man, it's been such an amazing ego practice too, because, you know, you want to compare yourself to everybody and you think that your worth as a man is dependent on any one of these things. Well, Whitney's lovers have been either. Either they could kick my ass or they have more money, or they're more successful, or they're more aggressive or they're more, you know, like every category that I thought made me special, you know, she's found someone more special in that category. You know, maybe not in totality combining everything together, but every, every single aspect that I thought made me, you know, valuable as a man. I've had to let all that go and recognize that what makes me valuable is something much deeper and something much, you know, more unique to me, which is the full and total expression of myself. It's not any attribute that I have. It's not my strength, it's not my skill in anything or my, you know, what I've accomplished in life. It's. It's me. And, and that's been incredibly, incredibly important.

Yeah, I mean, it's Interesting that all of the things that one prides themselves of, you can find someone who could, quote, unquote, beat you in that category. And then your own definition of your identity is like, then who the fuck am I?

Right? Or what makes me, you know, what makes me special? Why do you love me? Well, I don't love you for any one thing. I love you because you're you, expressed in totality. And that's ultimately the place where you want to get to. Because no one wants to feel loved for anything. You know, like, no one wants to feel loved because they're successful, or no one wants to feel loved because they're good looking or loved because they're. Because people just want to be loved. And this actually teaches you to show up and be loved, just be loved, not because of any reason. And I think, you know, we're taught in this conditional, conditional love world that we're loved because of something, whereas this gives you the opportunity to just love and be loved just because of nothing. Because that's who we are and that's how we interact and that's the potential light side of what this open relationship can bring.

Absolutely. So as you guys build relationships with other people, it's obviously, as you said, we're emotional beings. It's inevitable that love will fall into place. So do you think, or what would that look like if someone's like, I genuinely am in love with this person and it's the same type of love I have for you, I have for this other person. Would, would there be two primary relationships going on or would they transition to the next relationship?

I think there's a difference between love and function. You know, I think love actually shouldn't vary that much between people. Like, if you actually clean up the word love and rid it of all of its desire and all of its possession and all of the things, all the barnacles that have stuck to it. Like, honestly, we should love most people as we love ourself, as we love each other, as we love our partner. Like, love should be there as like the basic substrate. Like, love is like the sun. It doesn't choose which trees it shines on. It doesn't choose who's worthy of it. So I think making that distinction between love and function, you know, hopefully we're in love with everybody. Hopefully we're in love with our friends. Hopefully we're in love with our lovers. Hopefully we're in love with each other. Hopefully we're in love with the world, you know, And I think that's the Goal, like, the goal is never to diminish love, but then also to recognize, like, okay, what is the best function and what is the best, you know, accord of vibration? Right. So, you know, Whitney is far and away in her function, the best primary partner that I could have, where we have the most fun together. We're the best playmates. We want to travel together everywhere. We love each other deeply. And so as a primary partner, that is the best function of the relationship. But it doesn't mean that she shouldn't love somebody or that I shouldn't love somebody too, you know, and just because we love somebody else doesn't mean that that function of primary partner would make sense, you know? So I think. I think really, it's a. Really trying to make the distinction between love and function and knowing that love is always a good thing. But function, function is a very practical thing. Like, is, are you the best life partner? And as long as that answer is yes, you know, we'll. We'll continue to be totally.

And I think a lot of relationships is just a choice, like you choosing to be together because every moment is not going to be this exasperating love moment. You're busy, you're writing, you're working, but you're still choosing each other in those more dull or busy moments.

Yeah. Yeah, totally.

And what if one of you is like, listen, I don't want to be polyamorous or in an open relationship anymore. I just want to be with you. Would you guys reconsider becoming monogamous again?

Sure. You know, I think the door. The door, you have to think of a door that you can open or close, depending on how it suits, you know, how it suits you. And, you know, looking ahead, you know, I could certainly see a situation where the relationship was closed, but the way that I would see closed is just. I wouldn't ever say that Whitney wasn't allowed to do anything, you know, but I could see us being in a long stretch, you know, maybe even an indefinite stretch where we didn't choose to act on our permission to see other people, you know, so there's not any compulsion to actually act upon the openness or closeness. And there could be periods where we decide to actually hard close and just like, all right, we're closed. We got to sort out. We got to sort some out. And we've talked about those situations that have come up, you know, before where we've contemplated doing that. Haven't had to yet. But, you know, there's certainly discussions around. There have been discussions around that, But I could certainly see a situation where, you know, we just decide, yeah, we're good. You know, we, we have the freedom to, but we don't need to act on it. And I could see us spending years monogamously, potentially. So it's, it's really, you know, I think people think as soon as it's open, it's just like a, a, it's a big sex party, you know, But I think for me, it, you know, obviously, and for Whit, it's, it's not exactly like that. I think the most important thing is that we just see each other, we understand each other, and, you know, we're, we're, we get each other's motivations too. Like, I want to know why she wants to sleep with somebody. You know, Like, I don't need to know the details. You know, that doesn't, that doesn't turn me on as much as every time I post about open relationship, people call me a cuckold and fantasize that I'm like, getting off imagining people sleeping with Whitney. I promise you, it's quite the opposite. It's pretty hellish. But, you know, nonetheless, like, I want to know her motivations behind it. Like, what? Is this satisfying for you? Is it just fun? Is it, is there a strong emotional connection? Is there a strong physical connection? Is this, you know, like, and as soon as I understand her and understand why, then there's a lot of that jealousy and all that stuff just kind of fades away. Like, oh, I get you. That makes sense to me. You know, this is a, you know, maybe I'm a 12 foot wave with a strong barrel, and this is like a nice four footer on a sunny day and you just want to kind of cruise around and kind of shred, shred a smaller wave. Or like, maybe this is. Maybe you want to spend one time surfing Jaws, but you don't want to surf Jaws every day. It's too, too heavy a wave. So, like, everybody's different. And once you understand someone's motivation, then, you know, you're like, okay, I get you. That makes sense. And then you can be on their team about it and it's not, not any kind of antagonistic, give or take situation.

Okay. Yes. So do you notice that the other people are involved kind of when there's like maybe a lull in your relationship or something missing? Or even when you guys are like super good, super in love, you may still choose to be with another partner and it doesn't have anything to do with the relationship.

I Think our relationship actually is the strongest between me and Whit when we have strong other partners. So it's kind of, again, counterintuitive. Like when we're feeling love with somebody else. It's not that we have less love to give. Like love is a finite pie. And as soon as we give a slice to somebody, then we have less pie to give to each other. Like, the more we can access the vibration of love, the more love we bring to each other in our relationship and the more passion we bring. So, you know, again, counterintuitively, the happier we are in, you know, with everybody in total, the happier we are with each other. And when neither of us have lovers or we're having issues with our other lovers, there's actually me and Whitney's relationship actually suffers as a consequence of that. Just because we have less. We're less in the state of love, you know, in the state of excitement. And so actually, you know, the other lovers are, instead of taking away, actually bring a lot, lot of value to our primary relationship.

Oh, wow. Yeah, that's really interesting and totally counterintuitive than what I, and most people probably would have expected.

Yeah, it's, you know, and. And look, the. We didn't have the answers. We didn't know what was going to happen when we went into this. But this is just something over, you know, close to five years of experience now, like four and a half years in open that we've just found consistently over and over again is that, you know, when we're. The more that we feel love, the more love we. And gratitude we have for each other and then the better our relationship becomes.

So if you guys ever wanted to have kids or if another partner. What would that look like in a polyamorous setting?

Yeah, people ask that all the time. And I think everybody has this idea that the only way to raise kids is to have a nuclear family with a mother and a father and you, you know, maybe a nanny. And that's. That's how you raise a kid. Mother, father, and nanny. And then you put them into school as early as possible and you try not to resent the hell out of.

Of them.

You know, like this idea that that's the only way, I think is a false concept. I don't think that's how kids were raised for the hundred thousand years in kind of our ancestral lineage when people were in bands and tribes of up to 150 people. And, you know, paternity wasn't. Wasn't exactly a science because there was a lot of if you read Sex at Dawn, you know, there was a lot of sexual sharing and amongst the group, and I think think the kid was raised by the tribe. Like, there's that old saying, it takes a village. Well, there's a reason why they say it takes a village because it used to literally take a village. And I think a lot, in a lot of cases, people have aunts and uncles and grandmas and grandpas who played super significant roles in people's lives. But, you know, what's. What's happening now is that it has to be part of this blood family relation only. And there's like, exceptions made for if you have an uncle. Well, that's all just randomly determined by some kind of genetic lottery whether how many cool uncles you have or cool grandparents you have. And I think the concept we have is to create a larger family structure that doesn't, you know, maybe include some of our lovers, maybe doesn't. But irregardless has a lot of other people who we have in kind of our own family and our own tribe. Tribe that could provide a lot of mentorship and love and value for our kids. So, you know, people who are basically like multiple godmothers and godfathers and, you know, to use a more traditional word, but creating a sense of tribe where our kids have multiple people. So there isn't this crazy dependency on one parent, which I think is psychologically challenging for both kid and parent to have that much attachment to one individual. Now having both of us there having the model of a loving relationship, but then also having the ability to spend some time with other amazing people and, you know, not to really have this sole dependency on having, you know, one parent on each side. Because, you know, my parents. My parents split when I was 2 and they had a divorce. And, you know, most people say, oh, that's. That's too bad. And I'm like, that's not too bad. I had two other badass parents that I got. I got my stepmom and my stepdad. And so instead of having one dad and one mom, I had two dads and two moms. And that was awesome because one mom was a professional tennis player, one mom was a nutraceutical doctor, one dad was a commodities trader, one dad was head of the SWAT team. Like, how am I going to get all of those models if I just had one set of parents? So I think really kind of expanding the understanding that, you know, you can have multiple people feeling filling the masculine role and multiple people filling the feminine role, and that the key thing that a child needs is just love and that's really ultimately what we hope to provide.

Yeah, so very true. And definitely in our modern day society, the nuclear family model is not working. And we're definitely seeing kids who oftentimes they don't have the father figure. So they go and they look for it in a gang or they look for it in the bully, or they look for it in something else. So I definitely think having more friends and people involved in a kid's life is just really beneficial for the child's development.

Yeah, yeah, I agree. So that's, you know, again, that's something though that obviously, you know, it's, it's easy to say without kids, but you know, who knows, maybe we'll have kids and get monogamous and do the traditional thing, but, but you know, it hasn't happened yet. But you know, certainly the way I look at it is something more akin to what Aldous Huxley wrote about in his book island, which I think is the great, a great model and something that I borrowed from. He talks about a mutual adoption club, the Mac, which is basically a group of godparents that the kid can really spend time with in this kind of village scenario, utopian society that they created, where it is like spending time with grandma and grandpa and uncle and aunts, but it's all a chosen family rather than relying on purely your blood family to do it. And I think that's kind of the model that we'd be going for.

That's really beautiful and I'll definitely check that out. So I would love if you could share some resources where people can learn about open relationships, can learn about your book and your work and your poetry and all the great content that you put out there.

Yeah, I mean, the primary page that I put the most attention to is my Instagram and that's Obremarcus. And that'll point to a lot of the different things. But if you want to go to my blog as well, that's also where I house, you know, most of my articles in that open relationship guide. So if you go to aubreymarcus.com open you'll see the open relationship field guide that you were mentioning. You know, you can navigate to relationship on my blog or navigate to plant medicine, or navigate to poetry and you'll get to read everything that I'm kind of putting out. And I always release my new stuff in a newsletter. So if you see anything prompting you to sign up for the newsletter. I don't send out a bunch of crap. I Just talk about my week and add a poem or a book review or whatever. I can add value for that and then for anything for the book, you know, just check out on it it that has all the tools and the book and everything available there. O N N I T.com or you can get the book on Amazon. Own the Day, Own youn Life. I read the Audible too, so if you want to hear me talking about it instead of reading it, you can get it on Audible as well.

Cool. Well, thank you so much for all of your work. It takes so much courage to share these things that are totally going against everything we've been conditioned and taught about. So I really commend you for being that light and going against the grain and speaking your truth. It really shows how brave you are.

Well, thank you and thanks for creating a platform where I can talk about this crazy stuff. So I appreciate you.

Awesome. Well, it was such a pleasure to have you.

Yeah, thanks, Sarah.

Woo. How was that episode for you? Did it bring stuff up? Did you find yourself relating or did you find yourself super, super triggered like I was? And. And either way, it's beautiful because you're learning about yourself and that's the whole reason of why we're here. So I'll talk a little bit about how I feel about open relationships, but I don't want to have this formulate your opinion. I'm just sharing it with you so you don't feel like, oh, if I don't see exactly like Aubry, that means I'm not an evolved person. Because I have been seeing this kind of trend that a lot of the consciousness, men especially are in these polyamorous open relationships. And sometimes the languaging, not Aubry's at all, but other people's languaging can be like, if you're an evolved person, then you would see that it's not natural to be in a monogamous relationship. And it's actually the more evolved way to be open. And I've also sometimes felt like, oh, am I not conscious enough to be in an open relationship? Is this me and my own fear? Am I backwards in doing this? And I had to sit with myself and realize, okay, what do I really believe in? And I do believe in monogamy. I believe monogamy is a beautiful thing. I think that you create a container with that person that, you know, I got you and I'm going to make this work. And every time that I feel invalidated by what you say or I feel like you don't get me I'm not going to run away to someone else who's like, oh, yeah, you're right, that guy's an asshole. Or oh, yeah, like I'm going to make you feel better, or, let's not worry about that. I'm actually going to sit with it and come back to you and figure out how we can make this work. I believe there's something so beautiful about that. And in this day and age, we have so many options. We're talking to so many people, and we can get addicted to the attention, to the approval, to, you know, the butterflies, to the beginning of a relationship. But every relationship has seasons. And you're not always going to be like that feeling that when you first met that person, it's going to evolve and transform into something that is so much deeper. And that deeper feeling doesn't feel as butterfly, but it's another level of depth. And I don't believe that when you're in an open relationship and you're interacting with so many people on a sexual level that you're able to get to that level of depth with that person, because it's no longer that sacred container between you and them. It suddenly opened up to other energies because every time you're having sex with someone, you're actually exchanging not only your energies with each other, but everyone that they've had sex with. And now we're even seeing that for women especially, you end up carrying the DNA of the man that you've had sex with for seven years. So if you're having sex with other people, you don't know the other people that they've had sex with. You don't know their energy, you don't know their trauma. You don't know what's gone on in their past. You don't know their past lives. You don't know any of things, but you're bringing that into you. And then your relationship and then that person, your partner, who has nothing to do with that person that you slept with, is suddenly taking on this person you slept with baggage. And as much as you guys work on the relationship now, there's this whole other energy involved. And that person could be sleeping with other people, sleeping with other people, sleeping with other people. And that's how it ripples into essentially an energy that can no longer be contained. So. So this is my opinion. This does not mean it should be your opinion. It should be anyone else's. But I believe monogamy is my spiritual practice. Just like an open relationship is Aubrey and other people's spiritual Practice. Both can be a spiritual practice. Anything can be a spiritual practice. If I mean, like, I could say me jumping off a building can be a spiritual practice. Like anything could be a spiritual practice. But for me, my monogamy is something that I deeply cherish from the tantric perspective, when that Shiva and the Shakti unite, you're able to create total wholeness. And love is beautiful. Love exists between all people. And I totally can understand why you would want to open your connections with other people and not close yourselves off to people of the opposite sex. And I do understand that in your relationship you may eventually find other people that you're attracted to or could see yourselves dating, could see yourselves really being in a serious relationship with too. Like, that is probably going to happen at some point in your relationship that you're going to catch yourself falling for someone else. But really the test of the relationship is whether you can choose your partner, still knowing that there are other options out there, because there are other options out there. We can simultaneously love multiple people. That is absolutely true. But to decide that I'm really only going to commit to this one and make this person my not only primary partner, but my life partner is something that I think in our today's society is very, very rare. And, you know, my dream is to be like my grandparents who have been married for 60 plus years and still are always talking, always laughing, like they're constantly having conversation and they live by themselves. I'm like, what the hell could they still be talking about at this point? But they're constantly having a conversation. They've never opened up their relationship to someone else. And I don't think they would have this bond if they had, if they were both in love with other people and had all of this other stuff going on. I think the fact that it's just them and they've gone through so much with each other and they're still able to find excitement and romance and novelty in one another and to really look for, ooh, I haven't heard that story about you. Oh, I didn't know this about you. And you know, us humans, we have so many layers. It's so easy to say, oh, I'm bored with this person now. I figured out everything about them. I want something new. Well, we, we are constantly changing, constantly developing, constantly evolving. So a relationship with two people is actually never stagnant because it's two ever changing people. So again, it has to be a choice. It has to be something that both parties want to do. If monogamy feels like a force to you, then maybe it's not for you because it's not for everyone. Just like an open relationship is not for everyone. So I think you should really hone in on your heart chakra and see how it feels feels for you and know that either choice is totally, totally okay and to honor where you are in this journey in your life. Maybe you want to try an open relationship and see how that is for you. Maybe the thought of it just makes you want to throw up and that's fine. Doesn't make you more or less evolved, it makes you you. So just wanted to share that with you and if you guys would like, I can do another podcast on just my views on monogamy. I did one on how to preserve passion and long term relationship relationships about a month and a half ago, two months ago. So check that out. And if you're interested in the itunes store when you're leaving me a review, let me know. Oh I'd love more relationship stuff. Monogamy, open relationship. Tips on how to find the one, whatever it is you're looking for. I read all of the reviews on there and would love to hear from you. And if you love this episode and you'd like a little gift for reviewing it, I would love to send you the first half of my unreleased book. It's called called Eat right for your Mind Body type. It is not available for sale anywhere, never will. So as a free gift for reviewing this episode in the itunes store, you just head over to itunes on your phone, on your computer, click Write a review, write a nice review, take a screenshot of it and email it over to me before you hit submit. My email is Sahara S A H A R aattfeelfresh.com and I will send you back the first half of my unreleased book Eat Right for your Mind Body type. I hope you love this episode and I'll see you on the next one. Namaste.