197: Conscious Relationships and Masculinity with Stefanos Sifandos

Namaste. My name is Sahara Rose, and welcome back to the Highest Self Podcast, a place where we discuss what makes you your soul's highest evolvement. Welcome to the Highest Self Podcast. If it's your first time listening, welcome. You've come here at the perfect time. And if you've been listening since day one, welcome to this episode because it's going to be a good one. So relationships are a topic that I could jam out about forever and I want to share some special news with you guys. I just got married. Yes. A week ago. I just got married. So I'm super excited to share this episode with you all about relationships, because that's what I just stepped into, being a wifey for lifey. Maybe I'll do another solo cast about all of that. Actually, for sure I'm going to do that. But let's dive into this episode about conscious relationships, relationships and masculinity. So I sat down with this beautiful soul, Stephanos, and we're going to have his fiance, Christine Hassler, on the podcast in just two weeks to talk everything about relationships. So, you know, they're so dynamic, right? There's so many layers to relationships. But I wanted to ask the questions that, you know, we all be asking. So I put on my Instagram, what questions do you have on relationships? And we just jammed out. I asked all of your questions on how to find a conscious man and how to deal with, you know, different emotions and things that show up in relationships. And Stephanos offered so much incredible wisdom. So whether you're single, whether you're dating, whether you're polyamorous, monogamous, married, engaged, divorced, whatever it is, there's so much that you're going to get from this episode. So I highly recommend listening to it like three times because it's so good. It's so jam packed with stuff. I could keep talking to Stephanos forever, ever, because it was such a juicy conversation. So let's dive in to this episode and welcome Stephanos to the Highest Self podcast. And before we get started, check out these brands that make Highest Self podcast possible. I'd love to introduce you to the tea brand I've been loving recently, Vadum Teas. The tea starts in the mountains of the Himalayas and within hours of harvest are packed at their tea facility and shipped all around the world. I'm personally indulging in their master tea Assorted pack, which contains 15 loose leaf blends, black, oolong, green and white. They pack their teas in single serve premium pyramid tea bags. So you can have the convenience of loose leaf tea anywhere. Not just this, but they've managed to eliminate all middlemen from the sourcing process, thereby retaining all earnings in the source region for the farmers. These teas are fair trade, organic and pesticide free and they benefit the farmers directly, which I deeply care about. Additionally, every time you pick up a pack of Autumn Tees, a part of the revenue goes towards educating the tea growers children, which makes it all even more worthwhile. Oprah just listed as one of her top favorite things, so I take Oprah's word for it. If you want to try this out, head over to vadamteas.com v a h d a m teas.com and use coupon code Sahara for 20% off. Again, head over to vaadomteas.com and use coupon code SAHARA for 20% off. This episode is brought to you by Uveda Uvada is a modernized Ayurvedic supplement company that takes certain issues that we have such as mood joints, immunity, digestion, and creates these custom little packets exactly for us, infusing ancient Ayurvedic herbs with modern vitamins and minerals. I take the mood formula daily. It is great if you work a stressful job, had adrenal fatigue, ever suffer from anxiety or even depression, and it really heals you from a fundamental and holistic level. So if you want to try it out, head over to Uvaida. Y-O-U-V-E-A.com use the code Sahara and you'll receive 35% off your first order. And they now ship to almost every country globally, so check it out. If you live internationally, they may be shipping to your country too. And they just added India guys. So welcome Stephanos to the Highest Self podcast. It's so good to have you here.

Thank you. Wonderful to be here.

So the first question I'd love to ask you is what makes you your highest self?

I love this question. I've been listening to a lot of Advaita Vedanta lately and so very familiar with it but just really immersing myself in it again. And for anyone that doesn't know what that is, it's just, it's ancient wisdom from, from India. Very similar to Ayurvedic medicine of course, and there's a connection there to that lineage and, and it says that we are our higher selves at all times. It's that we don't realize that and we try to be this higher self, but we're always that. So it's coming into recognition of that. And so for me, higher self, though, is this willingness to explore, this willingness to be present to what's unfolding and ask not only what is next, but what can I benefit from in the now moment, right in the present? And so I do my best to come back to what would love do now? That question then, that brings me back into a greater state of harmony, because, like, life can be busy, life can be hectic, life can be painful. And sometimes we don't have all the answers. But if we take a moment and we breathe, come back into that presence in the moment, we ask, what would love do now? And we have a willingness to do that, to sort of move through the pain, because it's easy to stay in the pain. And I'm really guilty of that. Sometimes it becomes a very powerful mechanism for us to connect to that higher aspect of self.

I love that. So good and amazing that your fiance and you both kind of had the same. That you already are your highest selves. So beautiful.

I was very excited the other day, actually, and that's good that we're similar in that respect, because I was. I was completing a form for her, and it was asking. She was busy, and it was asking me questions about, like, what's your favorite color? And what was the color of your house where you grew up? And I'm like. And I guess. I guess correctly. I was so excited. I love that we're in synergy, and.

She was on last week's episode. So people will hear both of you.

Great.

So I'd love to just talk about conscious partnership. I put on my Instagram, what questions do you have? And we're talking about men. And there was a lot of pain, and there was a lot of just, what can I do? How can I fix the problem? So I want to talk about it in two ways. One, attracting or better yet, reuniting with that partner, your. Your soulmate, twin flame, whatever it is you want to call them. And then also for people who are in partnership, and maybe they are just looking for a little bit of a deeper connection. So let's talk about first, for that single person, where are all the conscious dudes?

We just need to open our eyes, ladies. Just got to open your eyes. They're there. They're around.

Is there an app?

There's an app. It's called consciousdudes.com.

Perfect.

They're around. This is a really cool question. And it's like, okay, where are the conscious men? Or where are the conscious people? And let me Just say something. We've got a bit of a backstart. Men have a backstart. And so we are coming from a deficit and we're getting to know ourselves in a changing world that's changing so rapidly with how we're relating to ourselves as men, how we're relating to women, how women are perceiving us, what women are wanting, how women are growing in society as well. Like, there's massive shifts the last 25 years, the last few years, social media has contributed to that, Technology has contributed to that. Women just having enough of not having access to resource in the same way that men do. There's been a lack of equity in our society in so many different ways. And so there's so much changes going on that it's difficult to understand ourselves and understand what we actually want. And so when a single person or a single woman is asking, where are all the good men? Men are asking that as well. Like conscious men are asking, where are all the conscious women? And the thing is a little bit easier because the woman's movement in terms of liberation expression, freedom and consciousness and awareness has been around before men, not before men, before men have started this, this deeper journey into. I think I need to change. I think I need to be different because the old ways aren't serving me. And so when I. I'll speak from personal experience. When I really sat down with myself and just was in a sitting practice and thought, what type of man do I want to be and what do I want to attract in my life? Until I got clear. And this is. This is the opposite for ladies as well. Until I got clear on really what I wanted and who I was. I virtually immediately drew in Christine. Okay. Within a few days, like, how'd you guys meet? We met. We met through mutual friends. But the unfolding of events, what needed to transpire for us to meet was really quite. I mean, I should tell you the story, it's a long one, but just.

Give us the, like, give you the bullet notes.

Yeah, well, essentially we were on opposite ends of the earth, like 10, 11,000 miles away.

You were in Australia?

Yeah, I was in Australia. In Perth, Australia, Western Australia. And I'd never heard of Christine. Christine had never heard of me. She saw me, my image, on a computer screen at a mutual friend's house. Those people were working in a company that I was involved in, her friends. Christina just got kicked out of her home, really under duress as well, and then made a decision to not move into a house until she had met her man, until she met the love of her life. And she just. She was really committed to following her path. And she saw me on a computer screen and we were then introduced and we just.

She was like, who's that?

Yeah, basically, yeah, she thought she recognized me. And she says that it was a soul recognition. And so when we first physically met, there was definitely a soul recognition there. It was beautiful. I felt like I was at home. And this isn't a feeling that is unique to a certain amount of people. We can all have this feeling. We can all have this. And it is about becoming more self aware and doing deeper work on self and getting clear on what we want and then setting those healthy boundaries as well and really understanding who do I want to be in the world and then be that person. And so I really started being that. I was on a journey of that and Christine was probably. I was a little bit behind. It took a while for me to catch up. As I said, men are a little bit behind. And so when I really got clear on that, we were introduced and we then had a conversation and multiple conversations. We were in connection every day. And we really built a beautiful, flourishing relationship. Getting to know the depth of each other, our past, our present, what our futures were and what we wanted our futures to be, and really connecting to our values as well. What was important to each of us. And was there alignment and synergy there and being really honest, really, really honest with who we were and what we wanted as well. And I think that's a very important point, is we have to come back collectively. Men haven't been very honest. Men have been telling themselves in the world a lot of lies, Many, many lies. And so this is very new for men to start telling the truth. It was very new. I grew up most of my life telling lies. And that was because I didn't feel like I was heard. When I was a child, the way I interpreted my circumstances was like, sort of be seen, but not heard. I didn't feel I had a voice every time. I grew up in a very volatile, abusive environment. And so it became the norm for me to hide, to tell lies. And men are very good at this, generally speaking, because we're not really taught how to emotionally regulate. We're not really taught how to express ourselves. So we hide behind these masks and these lies. And so when we come into adult relationships, we don't really know how to be. We're like kids. And so women are saying, I know how to express myself, I know how to communicate. Why is this not happening. And it's immensely frustrating. And so men are catching up. And I had to really be aware. And it wasn't because I experienced a lot of pain to get to that point. And that's not everyone's journey, nor does it have to be everyone's journey. That was my journey. But it was multiple awakenings for me to realize that it's a okay to be honest and it's okay to tell the truth and that I'm not going to be reprimanded for telling the truth. And I did a lot of clearing of the past as well, my childhood stuff. And so men are at this place now where they're the men that are awakening and conscious men that are really looking at being better men, being more aware men and wanting intimate, conscious relationships, for lack of a better term, are ready and are doing the work. And they're moving through quite a painful transition for most of them because they're dealing with emotions they've never dealt before. They haven't had that experience as a child to become accustomed to expressing in a particular way. There's so much newness for men. So fortunately or unfortunately, ladies need to be really patient.

And I think a lot of it is, like, for us women. I remember when I was single, I was like, where am I gonna find this guy? Like, at the yoga studio, at the vegan restaurant? Like, those are the only places I locate. Or I'm at. Like, I'm at home. And. And then I would date these, like, guys that I thought were spiritual. But it was a lot of a mask as well. Oh, yeah, the conscious dude mask, which is another one.

Oh, yeah.

So I think a lot of ladies are, like, literally, like, I don't know where I'd even bump into this guy. I've talked to all my friends and asked about all their mutual friends, and I just know a lot of girls who are, like, they're walking the talk and they're doing it, and it seems like they're totally aligned and they're still not finding it. That I'm wondering, like, is it, like a numbers thing? There's just way more kind of conscious women than there are men. Like, or is it something deeper within themselves or their karma or something that is withholding them from this relationship?

It could be all of that and more. And so the only thing we can really do or control is how we feel, how we respond to a situation. So is there something that we're longing for? If there's deep pain attached to that longing, if that object or that experience comes in, there's going to be a pain attached to that as well. So the best thing that we can do is have fun, play, enjoy yourself, be the best person you can be for yourself, begin to really nurture yourself, look after yourself. And again, be patient and be mindful as well. Because, you know, like not to be. There are certain groups of men out there, men that are put in three groups. So there's men that are really looking to awaken and they don't know how to do it. And there's no malice, there's no, there's no ill intent. And they're saying, well, where do all these amazing women hang out? They're hanging out at yoga studios, they're hanging out at vegan places, they're ecstatic, dance, sound, healing, whatever it may be in this spiritual places, modern spiritual places. So they go there and what they're doing is they're connecting to this hyper feminine aspect of self. And so they're moving into this highly feminized state. And that's not really attractive to conscious women. And so there's that group of men, then there's the men that, I don't want to say they're malicious, they're just, they're coming from their primal brain. They just want to hunt and they're realizing that women that are open, that are looking for men are hanging out at these places.

Oh, there's tons of predatory men there.

Absolutely, yeah. And, and then there's the men, well, probably four groups. Then there's the men that just don't care and they're overtly aggressive and overtly oppressive and derogatory and they just do their own thing and they're hyper selfish. And then there's the men that are actually awakening and they're more balanced and they're healthier in their expression and their being. I don't know what the statistics are on what that ratio is of men to the other groups, but they do exist. And we rush into relationships sometimes. You know, I really took my time. Christine and I really took our time. And that may sound like a paradox because of the way our relationship has unfolded, but we spent hours, sometimes every day, like going really deep into asking questions about who we were and what our greatest dreams were and ambitions were, and talking about taboo or controversial subject matter, or talking about really deep subject matter like monogamy and non monogamy, talking about our own spiritual practices, talking about children, families, families, the state of the world, like really going deep, getting to know each other and being patient with that process. And there were times when I was impatient because I'm an impatient person at times with respect to wanting a particular response. But it gave me an opportunity to really look at myself. And that's the beauty of relationships. Of course, I'm sure we'll go into that after. But relationships are a tremendous mirror for our growth, for our own growth. And they provide us an opportunity to see ourselves. And so we need to be patient, not rush in and really communicate our truth. And if we're scared of communicating our truth, we have to ask firstly, why? And secondly, how's that going to affect the relationship down the track? There's a balance there about, around really seeking that authenticity and love and not just rushing into it because we're coming from a place of scarcity, that there aren't any good men out there.

Yeah. So I've seen kind of these two approaches. Like I have some friends that are like, yep, that first date, even before we met, I was like, I want to get married and have like kids in the next year. And I did that because then the guys who weren't interested in it were scared off and then the ones who are interested in it stayed. But then I have see another school that's about keeping the mystery and letting it slowly unfold. And don't come and be like, I want to get married instantly, but let the relationship more develop and blossom because a man might be really turned on if from the very get go you're like, here are all my things that I want and looking for and are you going to fit? What's your take on this?

It's a personal choice on how we present ourselves firstly. But there needs to be some mystery because there's a balance in polarity there. Like it's important.

Like if Christine, the first time she met was like, I want to be married in the next year and have two kids, what would you say?

Yeah, I would, I would say, oh, like that's intense. I really appreciate your honesty. Not intense that I'm scared of it because I'd been that person where I was very, very scared of freedom and commitment. And so I would just ask, well, that's great. Like I'm very happy that you're coming from that place. Now I know exactly what you. Let's see how it unfolds. So that wouldn't scare me because I've dealt with those fears that I've had in myself personally.

So for the right guy, it won't scare them?

No, I don't think so. Not at all. For the right Guy won't scare them.

Or are you losing the opportunity to even have that right guy? Because he might instantly just be scared.

Potentially. Yeah, potentially. And so. But there's a beautiful. So when. When the. When the feminine is alluring and mysterious, the feminine within each person, it magnetizes the opposite of that. So it magnetizes that man being directed, that man pursuing or that masculine pursuing. I shouldn't say man because they're not interchangeable necessarily. But in this case, it would be. Would be woman, woman, man. So that man then becomes intrigued, he becomes curious, he becomes more involved. There's a higher involvement in the relationship when there's that mystery. And it's not. This isn't playing games for malice. This is just a beautiful dance. This is a beautiful dance between the masculine and the feminine, which can be quite natural states within us. And so that element of mystery and Christine, for me, played that out very, very well. And I was very directed when we were introduced, I made the contact. I initiated that contact immediately. I took the lead. I was asking questions. Of course, Christine was asking questions as well, but I led that process. And you'd have to ask her. But I felt she really enjoyed that dance. And I enjoyed that dance as well. And so if Christine said to me she did, she was very on, this is what she wants in life, this is what she wants in a relationship. We spoke about relationship. We spoke about many different subjects. And so none of that scared me. None of that scared me. She said, yeah, with the right person, I would want children. With the right person, I would want to be married. And this is what marriage means to me. We got really clear on all of that. Doesn't mean we're going to get married tomorrow. It just meant we were having a very open, clear conversation about that. And she was very mysterious, which was very attractive to me because I was in my healthy, masculine.

So what do you mean by mysterious?

What I mean, how can we be.

More mysterious, be less direct?

Allow. So Allow, allow. So, for example, I took lead on asking questions. I said, hey, this is what we're going to do. We're going to ask each other a few questions every day. I'm going to ask you first, and then you're going to ask me the same questions and I'm going to respond. And so Christine would respond as she would respond, and she wouldn't always respond. She would respond very honestly and directly. But there was always room for more, so I could always ask more questions.

So we have Christine back on. On her mystery tactics. How'd you do it.

I think you need to. And that was really enticing for me because it got me excited and viscerally excited. Like I'm loving this conversation. This is really emotional, this is spiritual, this is intellectual. So for me spiritual is connected. It was a really connected relationship. I didn't feel disconnected, I didn't feel like I was bored and it wasn't like I was pursuing this woman in an unhealthy way. It was a beautiful dance where there was permission I felt and she gave me permission to ask questions, to be curious, to explore and I gave her permission to feel safe in that way. So that was a beautiful dance. So those questions, when ladies are on first dates, you don't need to reveal everything and anything. Why? There's no need for that. Yes, we need to be honest with who we are. We need to be truthful. But why reveal everything?

Totally. I totally agree. I did the same. So what if the guy is not really asking you all these questions and he's a little bit more quiet into himself.

Well, he could be an introvert, he could be very shy and that doesn't make him a non awakened man. It doesn't make him a man that is not connected and is not willing to meet where her values are. But if an introvert, someone that's really shy and there's a pattern of not taking lead, doesn't really suit the woman, then she needs to make a decision and say, I'm sorry, you're not for me. And really stand strong in that as well. Don't settle for second best. That's a decision I made as well. I said to myself, I'm not going to settle for second best. And that's not about perfection or imperfection. I want to clarify that because no one's perfect. Okay. It was that this is the woman I want. And it's interesting. I made a list. I did a list. I had like 300 and something points on my list. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was very, I was very flexible with most of them. There were some non negotiables there, but very few. But Christine ticked most of them. And I did this years ago as well, like oh, maybe four or five years ago. And she, she ticked the vast, vast majority. And I'm not suggesting everyone make a list. You don't need to make a list.

I made a list. I drew a picture. I would like meditate and communicate with him.

Amazing.

Yeah, I did all of that. And I think that exactly gave the universe like, okay, this is who we're Going to send in a month. I met him on Bumble, an app.

Wow. Yeah, clarity. I mean, clarity is. Clarity is king or queen and. Or king or queen. And so I got really clear on what I wanted and so did Christine. Otherwise we wouldn't have gone past the first conversation, probably wouldn't have gone past the first email. Because if I wasn't in my healthy self and I wasn't confident in who I was as a man, because that's a very attractive characteristic in any human being, particularly men, when men are confident and there's a fine line between arrogance and ego and confidence. Confidence is being self reliant, self assured, knowing yourself, having self awareness, knowing what you want and then taking action on it. And that's a really attractive character trait in most men. In men. Sorry. And so when a woman feels and sees that, she's then magnetized towards that as well. And so for me, I saw the email, I took action because I wanted to get to know this person. I'd never met her before. I'd never even seen a picture of her at that point, but I was just said, hey, Christine, by mutual friend. Christine's an amazing person. You two have so much in common. Why don't you meet? And I trusted that and I went forward with that. And I was also clear in myself that I wanted to be the type of man, a particular type of man, and the type of man that a woman would respect, could trust, would feel safe in front of, and didn't have to second guess because my history. So I came from that place where people would have to second guess me. Women, previous relationships, would have to second guess me. And that was when I really uncovered all. That's a very not nice feeling. As most women, I'm sure most of your audience has experienced that. And so I wanted to be really clear and let any woman that I'm interested in romantically or even platonically, treat her with complete respect and reverence, give her the space that she needed to make decisions and let her see me for who I was and not second guess me. And so these are some character traits that women can look for in men. Like if men are back to your question, they're passive and they're really shy. Is that because they're just nervous then? Or is that something that's part of their character? Because if they're consistent, I mean, I'm an introvert, I'm shy. And when I want something and I know my place as a man, I do it and I make it happen. And I'M willing. And I don't care about the fear. I move through the fear now. I wasn't always like that. And so if your man isn't like that or the men that you're dating aren't like that, are they the type of men that you want to be with? I would say no.

Totally. Yeah. And it comes down to, are you the type of woman that a man like that would want to be with?

Correct. That's accommodating. And just allow that to happen because you're both going to build resentment and as a woman, you're not helping him grow and step into his power. Like if I was ever, if I ever had moments of timidness or shyness, we, Christine and I would have a conversation about that. And they're moments like we're allowed to be that as men. We're allowed to be whatever we want as men. We're allowed to be whatever we want as women. It's just as long as those, those ways of being aren't patterns that are like permanent patterns, part of permanent fixtures of our personality. Because, and, and by the way, our personality can be changed very easily. It's not, that's not, that's not an issue. Personalities, Personas or masks. So we can take masks on and off and we get to choose what masks we want to put on and we get to choose what type of people to be. That's very important to consider as well.

So good. Yes. So now I want to talk about people who are in relationships. So let's say you're in a relationship. You love this guy, but he's not into meditation. He kind of rolls his eyes when you have your crystals and da da, da. And you really want to share this part of you with him, but you feel like he's just kind of shutting it down, not taking it seriously, not telling you you're not allowed to do it. But he's not going to come ecstatic dancing with you. What do you do? Can you make a guy more conscious?

You can't make anyone do anything. And if you are making someone do something, it's not worth making them do it. And it's not worth them doing it if they're not coming from there. If they can't come from a place of saying, look, this really doesn't align with me, but I'm willing to give it a go because I'm open minded enough. And if you love it, then I want to learn more about it. At the least, then that's a recipe for disaster. If they're being forced or coaxed to do something. Comes down to values. In my relationships, this is the interesting part. Like in previous relationships, I've spent time getting to know people, not to the level that I had with Christine. And I was in a much healthier place. I was in a place of clarity. And so getting to know someone and really aligning with values. So one of our common values is growth. That means we have an openness and a willingness to try new things, even if it's uncomfortable. Like, for example, we're going. We're gonna have some dance lessons. I've got Christine some dance lessons for Christma. So we're going to try dancing. I'm not super, super comfortable dancing. I don't have a massive problem with it, but it's also out of my comfort zone, and so I'm experimenting with that. Christine and I did some somatic healing with a couple that was really uncomfortable for me. That was way out of my comfort zone, Way out of my comfort zone. And Christine didn't coax me to do it. She said, hey, here's some information. If this resonates, great. If not, no problem. She left it to me. I looked over it, I sat with it. I made a decision. I went there. Super uncomfortable, way out of the box for me in terms of work that I had, like, deep healing work that I hadn't done before and was really beneficial. And if I'd said, hey, this is not for me, that's okay too, because I'm willing to grow in other ways. And so having that mirrored values. Alignment is so, so important. Men can get really stubborn. Men can. Men can get very rigid in their own beliefs, and they find it unsafe to change the way they think. So you're like, rolling your eyes there because it's so true, right? Like, my father was a perfect example of that old school. He's in his. He's nearly 80 now. He had children quite late by social status, and so he was really set in his way. So anything new he didn't want to know about. And so I grew up watching him say no to my mother. No to my mother. No to my mother all the time. Like, really. And really, he would never support her with all her ventures. And her. My mother was. She practiced, like, Wicca and witchery and spirituality and all. And he would always mock her. It was very, very. And that wore her down. That really wore her down. And so if women allow that to occur regularly, resentment will build in the relationship. And so how do you make a man do Anything. We can't make him do anything. Sort of have to lead by example. And we have to have that conversation and communicate. This is something that's really important to me. Speaking the man's maybe your audience has heard of this is a basic, basic tool, but it's really effective. The five love languages. Yeah. So speak. If the man's. Very simple. If the man's love language is physical touch, grab his hand, look him in the eye and say, hey, this is really important to me. I know it's a bit funky and it's weird for you because you're not accustomed to it, but it would mean a lot to me if you came with me now. I would really find it hard to believe that if a woman came from that place, and that's a place of sincerity and integrity, alignment, not manipulation, just alignment. Came from that place. Said I really. This would mean so much to me. Not, hey, if you love me, you'd do it. No, of course not. I'd be really surprised if the man didn't say, okay, I'll give it a go, even if he was reluctant, but at least he was open to it. So you're moving in a similar direction. At least. Least. And life is not trial and error, but it's full of different experiences. Maybe that experience aligns. Maybe another one that doesn't, but another one will. And so again, there's this dance. It's back and forth, but it's how we communicate that's really important. Not so much what we're communicating all the time.

So, for example, let's say you're trying to get your guy to meditate because you think that would really help him. Be like, hey, why don't you try this one day with me? And then let's say he tries it and he's like, yeah, I didn't like it.

It.

Then do you just let it go?

Not necessarily. And depending on who he is. And maybe you have another suggestion. And maybe it speaks in a language that he understands, that maybe he likes sports and so maybe you. He likes being athletic. And so there's different ways to meditate. There's different ways to sit in practice or stand in practice or moving meditation. And so maybe it's giving him hypnosis in the evening and he wakes up and he feels really refreshed. Maybe it's giving him something to listen to, like a binaural beats while he's moving, while he's going for a jog or a run or something. And maybe that's the introduction. Maybe it's not a, hey, sit for 30 minutes in a yoga studio with 50 other people and there's gongs going on, there's meditation music, or there's silence. And there's weird. Weird, according to him, because he's never experienced it before. Strange things occurring. Maybe that's too intense. Maybe chop it back a few steps and so be creative in how. Look, We're. You know Dr. John Demartini? Do you know Dr. John Demartini, yeah. He's great. And he's a funny guy. I've done a lot of his work. And he's of the belief that relationships are like business transactions. And I don't think he means to demote relationships to. It's just a standard business transaction. It's more than that. But of course, there's this negotiation that's constantly taking place because we come from different places, different sets of experiences, different personality types, different ideas about the world. And that's healthy. That's good. It's good because we learn about each other and ourselves by working through them in an equitable manner. And so we have to sometimes sell ideas to our partners. This is a perfect example. Sometimes I want something from Christine, and if I just come in being really aggressive with what I want, she's immediately shut down and not even interested in what I'm saying. And she's now emotionally having a reaction to me being aggressive or me being erratic. That's not me selling her an idea of something that I think is great. Or she's really tired, she's had a long day. And I come to a real. I'm really excited. And I say, hey, tomorrow we're going to go hiking for three hours and we're going to do. And she's like, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa. I've had a really long day. I've been working for 12 hours and I'm super tired. How's that? How am I selling her that? So we have to sometimes pick our moments. And again, that's not. I want to be really clear. It's not being manipulative. That's exposing something to someone. When Christine told me about the somatic healing, she didn't tell me when I was agitated or angry about something thing she told me when we were in a really connected place. We were discussing about. We actually were talking about growth, and we're talking about how we can expand ourselves as human beings. And she mentioned that. And I'm like, I was in a really good. I was in a receptive place. We're talking about growth. It was all relevant. And so now that was really beneficial for me. It was painful at the time and really awkward and confronting. But she also had the foresight and the insight rather to know that it was beneficial for me. And so again, I want to come back to that's not being manipulated because of where she was coming from and how I then responded to that. So we have to pick our moments. Like a simple technique is just pick your moment. Don't give up so easy. That's the problem with modern day relationships. We fucking give up so easily. So easy. It's like, I used to be like this, oh, we had a fight. No, she's not for me, we're going to be the wrong relationship. But we just had a fight. That can't be it.

Totally.

I'd say. How many arguments Christine and I about? We haven't had that many arguments, but we've gone to some depth in terms of intensity of the relationship, if I have to be honest. Did I think about is this relationship for me? Yeah, I did. Absolutely. That was the old self coming through though, because I'm deeply committed to the relationship and we've established such a strong foundation and clarity in our relationship of where we're going and how we both adapt and the willingness that we have to make changes if we need to. That from a present adult self that doesn't come into play.

So true. And I think a lot of times there's like maybe one partner in the relationship that's more like when shit hits the fan is like, oh my God, so is it over? And then there needs to be that other one that's like, no. Like it's, I'm not going anywhere. Like, this is just a tiff that we're going to get over it and move on.

Coping strategies that we've cultivated from young, young children and we bring it into our lives. Most of the time it's maladaptive. Christine calls it compensatory strategies, maladaptive coping strategies, essentially. Like, unless we deal with that stuff, like we bring that into our adult relationships.

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Deepen the relationship with yourself. That's number one. Like, really deepen the relationship with yourself. And from that, you'll gain clarity on the action you need to take. I mean, no one can sit there and say, oh, divorce him. Oh, stay there for the next 10 years. Oh, don't ever give up. Like, no one can say that, but you have to deepen the relationship to yourself. Take action that nurtures you, and that brings you to a place of clarity. And then when you make a decision, it will come from a place of love. It won't come from a place of hurt, won't come from a place of wounding. It won't come from a place of hate. And attack come from a place of love. And we can't control how others react or respond or deal with that. We can only respond to how we behave. And so if we come from that place of love, we know we're doing the right thing.

So I've noticed a lot of men have a harder time communicating than women. And I was reading this book, forget its name. Your Brain on Love, I think it was called. And it's how we're either a wave or an island. And waves are someone that when something happens, they want to talk about it, express it. Like, did you see what happened? And islands retract. They go inside of themselves. And most time you attract someone who's the opposite of you. And I personally feel like men tend to be more islands, women tend to be more waves. I know with my relationship, it's very much like that. So how do you. If you're someone that wants to talk about it and sit down and go into it, and your partner is just, like, doesn't want that. How do you know, like, how much time to give him to, like, be in his man cave and when to get in there?

That's a great question. Make your unconscious agreements conscious. So, again, these were some of the discussions that. And just because you're together and you've been together for 10 years doesn't mean you can't have these discussions now either. But before Christine and I were together, we had these discussions, like, how do you argue? How do you deal with conflict? And how do you deal with challenge? And of course, more arises as you're together because you're in that. In that space, in that field. And more comes up. You make agreements or agreements on how you're going to argue or discuss difficult situations. Right? In. In our case, it's. I'm a little Bit of both. I'm a little bit of a wave and I'm a bit of anomaly sometimes. I'm much of everything.

I mean, it's ideal to be both. Yeah.

Well, sometimes, though, I just want to discuss. And the way I want to discuss it is very intense.

Right.

And that's not going to serve the relationship. So we come up with a. With an agreement. Are we ready to talk about this now? Okay. No, we're not. Okay. Okay. Maybe I'll go for a walk. Maybe you go for a walk. When can we discuss it? We discuss it in two hours. I'm going to be finished. This. That will be done.

Like, aren't you going crazy in your head?

No, because there's a trust there. There's an underlying trust that we're going to. That we're going to discuss this. And so that's a practice as well. Like, sometimes when I'm really intense and I want to speak about something, I need to practice, to be patient. And sometimes when I want to retract, that's not healthy either. There's many times where I retract and I go into my own mind. I literally can ask Christine this. I look into space. I'm just like, I don't want to be there. And that's not me. That's me. That's my child, my inner child coming out wounded and just attempting to disconnect completely from the situation. And that may not be the case for everyone.

I feel like a lot of men are like that.

Most of the most time it is. It's that some form of wounding that comes out. And Christine will gently bring me back. Please, please talk to me. Please don't ignore me. Please be here. She doesn't shake me violently or scream at me or put me. Because then I'll just become aggressive and then that's not going to help either of us. And so the way. The way we communicate is. So come back to this. The way that we communicate and having these agreements are setting these agreements out before an argument happens or a challenge or a conflict arises. So you know how to deal with it. And you've got to do the work to abide by it. Like, you have to abide by. You can't make the agreement and then. Then go back on it or negate it. And if someone does, hey, remember, we agreed to this. This is what we agreed to. Maybe we can change it. But right now, this is what we're doing for this situation. Again, coming from a place of love, that's really important. So like ayurvedic medicine. Prevention over curative. That's the principle. And we prevent by looking at all of our unconscious agreements, like looking at how we clean up the house, to how we drive a car, to how we make major life decisions, to how we spend money, to how we treat each other, to how we make love, how we argue. All of these agreements that we have, we make them clear and conscious. And then we see, is there an alignment? Oh, okay. You really prefer to have conflict in this way? Or you prefer to deal with pain in this way? And I prefer to deal with pain in this way. Well, can we meet in the middle or. Actually, you know what? I'm really okay to do it your way because it doesn't bother me. Or we really need to do it my way, at least for a little bit. And you have those discussions before they even arise. Prevention over. I'm gonna make up a word. Curation. Cause it just fits better for me. But I think your audience knows what I mean.

I love that. To even talk about it before you're the fight and be like, absolutely, this is how we would argue. And then when you're there, you have a kind of a game plan so you're not freaking out.

Yep. You can even have separate rooms that you go to to create space. And maybe it's not ignoring it or sweeping it under the carpet. Maybe it's, hey, you go for a walk. I'm going to go in the study. This is what we're going to do. We're going to reconvene in 20 minutes. It could be as simple as that.

Alexi was saying that her and Preston literally one day took out, like, a whiteboard. And we're like, these are my triggers. Like, these are your triggers. And they, like, literally talked to me about, you know, when you say this thing this way, this triggers me. And they're like, okay, I won't say it. And I'm like, well, clearly you're both coaches, and this is why it works out. But what a beautiful practice. But I feel like a lot of guys, like, my partner's definitely not a coach. And I'm like, let's bring in a whiteboard. And he's like, no. Like, that sounds so like, I'm the teacher and he's the student. And I think a lot of us like more conscious women who are more in this world than our men. They may be conscious in different ways. We feel like the teacher teachers. And then the teacher's never sexy, you know? So how do you inspire action without taking that role.

I do it. I lead. I lead. I lead.

As a woman. We should still, like, lead and do that as a woman. Yeah.

Okay. You're asking as a woman. Yeah, that can be difficult because over time, if that happens continuously and the woman's continuously taking lead. Because there's nothing wrong with a woman taking lead. Like, there's. Let me be really clear about that. There's nothing wrong with a woman taking lead with respect to something that's really important to her. If that's a pattern. Pattern, though, a continuous pattern in the relationship. It can become very, very tiring. Very tiring. And so to answer your question, take lead. Like, just simply go ahead and take the action that you need to make yourself feel better, but do it and be it and embody it. And ideally, you know, we learn from. Well, not ideally. We do. We learn greatly from being in our environment and observing what happens in our environment. We, like children, learn. Learn the best when they simply observe. And many men, they learn best when they just observe. Most of the time it's. They're in the childhood nature anyway. And so just take the lead on that. Just be mindful.

Bring in the whiteboard into your bedrooms, guys.

Well, that can. Actually, I'll give you an example today. It was really, really nice. I hope Christine doesn't mind me sharing it, but I'm going to share it. So it's happening. She mentioned behavior that reminded her of something of the past that was quite hurtful. And I won't go into great detail, not because I just want to be respectful. So I was frustrated with something earlier today, and I was frustrated in public, and I became oblivious to my surroundings. And Christine said to me, darling, when you do that. And she waited for when I was calmer like I was.

And Christine's great with timing.

She's pretty good timing. Yeah, so am I. I'm really good, too.

I'm like, let's talk about it right now.

Tell her, darling. Tell her how good I am with time, timing.

They're both great with timing.

I'm actually pretty good. I'll take ownership of that. I never used to be, though. Used to be horrible. And she said, when you behave like that in public, frustrated, it reminds me of my father, and it embarrasses me and it scares me. And I looked at her and I said, I'm sorry. Actually, I didn't look at her because I was ashamed. I had shame. I looked at her after I didn't look at her. I said, I'm sorry. And it Embarrasses me as well. And I'm sorry it scares. Scared you. And because I become very tense because again, I grew up in violence. So there's aspects of self that I'm shaking off still. And. And then after a minute or so, I said, I, I love you and I'm sorry again. And that was it. Like, she felt that it was sincere. I didn't really like my. Because I'm willing to be open to changing behavior that doesn't align with me. I don't want to be frustrated. That's not a. That's not a desirable place to be. It's an undesirable emotion, being frustrated and intense like no one wants to. No one in their healthy mind. If you had 100 people and you gave them all these negative emotions or the uncomfortable. Not negative emotions, but the uncomfortable emotions that we experience, the undesirable emotions, and then gave them a list of desirable emotions such as happiness, joy, bliss, connection. So I guarantee you, unless they have a pathology, 100 out of 100 are going to go for those desirable emotions. So we have to be open and willing enough to look at our stuff and say, you know what? I didn't need to be frustrated. That didn't serve me and it didn't serve you. And the fact that it's hurt you that. That upsets me. I'm sorry for that. And I'm going to be more mindful of that moving forward.

And it could easily have turned into her just being like, what's with this guy? Oh my God, he's so frustrated. And then being like, oh my God, I don't want to be with this guy, has anger problems, and then like, it becoming a thing. And then a month later her breaking up with you over it. And you know, and that's actually what happens.

Exactly what happens. Because people, let's come back to communication. Because we don't talk about things in real time. It doesn't mean that we're talking about the wave in the island. That doesn't mean that if you're a wave, you have to talk about it right here, right now. But express it, write it down, speak to it.

Do you have like, kind of a good, like, frame of how far after that something bothered you? You should talk about it.

There's no time frame. But the best guidance I can give there is wait until you're in a more desirable state of being. Wait until you're calmer, wait until you're a little. You're experiencing more patience. Wait until your perspective has broadened so you're not as angry, you're not as frustrated, or you're not as sa or upset. Now do whatever you need to do to change your state. I laugh, I get on my back and I put my legs over my head into a plow position and I change my state. Or I have a cold shower or I go for a walk or I go for a run. I don't always do that because sometimes I'm too deep in my frustration. Most of the time I do that and we laugh. Like, can you imagine me just right now dropping in front of you and just.

You're very flexible.

But it's funny. Like we both laugh. It breaks the state and then we can come from that place. Now sometimes that's seconds, sometimes it's minutes, sometimes it's hours.

Yeah. What if someone's going through a funk that they're just kind of like that for months?

That's a different conversation. That's a more supportive conversation. And if that's the case, then I was actually talking to someone yesterday. This is not months, this is years. This gentleman has been going through a great deal of pain. He's been self medicating with marijuana, not a great deal, but every day for like 15 years. And she's. And they're married and she just doesn't know what to do. And she loves him and she cares for him and he supports her and cares for her, but he's also numbed out most of the time. And so she's not honoring herself. She really isn't. And she's not really speaking and communicating her truth. And then she's withholding experiences from him as well. And they're in the, in this tango, that's not healthy. In this dance, that's not healthy. And so what do you do is you have to have a very honest conversation. And sometimes I'm not saying you leave or you don't leave the relationship again, that's a personal decision that only those individuals can make. Maybe it's based on karma. If that's your belief system, maybe it's based on your belief system from this lifetime. You leave, you don't leave. That's not really. The outcome is not relevant. It's how you deal with it that's important. But they both ignore ignoring the situation, essentially.

So what would you recommend that she does communicate? And what if he's like.

He is numb to it. Yeah, he is. So I actually advise her to write a letter and send it. They live in the same house. Write a letter and send it to him. And so he receives. He needs a shock. When I say shock, maybe it's a strong word, but he needs to experience her message in a different way. Because the routine of how she's, when, the timing of it, how she's doing it, her tone of it, it's not what, working? Yeah. So she needs to try a few other avenues. How many other avenues does she try before she, I don't want to say gives up, but before she makes a different decision? That's up to her, but she needs to try a different avenue. You can't, as Einstein says, same thing over and over again is the definition of insanity. So we can't do that. We have to take a different approach.

So mailing, writing a letter and mailing it, what should the letter say?

Details around how she feels. Because I was asking her about. Have you told, you're telling me all this? Have you told him, him this? Oh, no, not really. He needs to hear it, he needs to read it, he needs to feel it. And maybe she needs to make some massive changes. Maybe she needs to say, you know what, I'm moving out for a few weeks or a few days or a week or whatever it may be because this isn't healthy for us and we both need some time to think about this. No, I'm not breaking up with you. No, I'm not leaving the relationship. But this isn't working as an example of what you may do if he is continuing to not be open and willing to make changes. If that doesn't serve the values of that. And this is perfect because she's in a space where she's growing massively. Like she's in this, in this state of growth. All she wants to do is grow. She's learning, she's involving herself in new experiences, she's expanding and challenging herself. And he's in deep state of depression for various reasons and she can't pull him out. And that's something that's really important. Women need to understand this. It is not their responsibility to pull their man out of anything that he's in. And I thought that. And that's a codependent dynamic. I thought that. I thought to myself, if I'm with someone, even with my friends and family, they should help. Should, should a dangerous word. Should. They should help me. They should help me get out of this. That's what friends are for. That's what partners are for. That's what family's for. The reality is we have to assume self responsibility and self reliance. That doesn't mean we don't rely on others. It means that we come to ourselves first. We are our own source of inspiration, leadership first. And so she cannot be responsible. Ladies, you cannot be responsible for your man to get out of his funk, to make changes. You can only do so much. And yes, keep coming from love and keep honoring yourself.

Yes. Mic drop. Drop that mic. So one, one last question, which is kind of big thing, but we talked about earlier is just this conversation on monogamy and polyamory. I feel like a lot of people in the conscious community, especially men, feel like if you're conscious and woke, then why be with one person? Because we're all one and therefore we should be in these open relationships. And it's seeming like this is a. A really big trend that I don't know if it's here to stay. And I'm seeing a lot of women that I meet meet, saying that they meet these amazing guys. And there's one problem. He's polyamorous. And they don't know if they should try it out, even though it's not honoring their truth or let it go.

Let it go. If that's not your. If non monogamy is not your truth, it off. Simple as that. Sorry to be very Australian.

Well, I, I feel like for. At least for most women, it's not that I've come across they're saying, well, you know, maybe they're convincing themselves. Well, maybe this is the more conscious way.

Yeah. So let's speak. Let's speak to that. This is a. This is something I speak to extensively when I work with men.

And you have great articles on this on your website too.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you for, for reading some of those as well. And so I read something really interesting the other day which was, I love this. So this gentleman is a non monogamous. He's in the non monogamy camp. And he wrote. The essence of the article was this. I'll sum it up, I'll paraphrase it. I'll sum it up in a sentence. Non monogamy should be the norm. Bear with me. Monogamy needs to be reserved for those that are more advanced. And I found that really interesting. I thought, that's cool. I like that. And his argument or his position was basically saying that non monogamy biologically is more natural to us when we look at our evolution from an evolutionary standpoint. Yep, sure. That makes sense. And where we are today. And I'm sort of jumping into my voice now. Where we are today, socioculturally the complexity of society, the layers, our own rise in consciousness, our own neurological and brain development. We're no longer in this survival mode. Clearly you can see this dense population around. We no longer need to procreate at rapid rates to ensure the survival of our species. We think about the world differently, we think about the cosmos, our own existence, whatever consciousness is metacognition very differently. That affects the way we relate to, to others. Is monogamy superior to non monogamy? It's not about that, no. Is non monogamy superior to monogamy? It's not about that, no. It's a personal choice. Now for me, I choose to be monogamous and there's various reasons why. Obviously that wouldn't work if my partner didn't choose the same thing, the same line of expression. Monogamy is challenging. So is non monogamy because it's not the norm and it's really different to what society is accustomed to in this, in, in contemporary times. So there's inherent challenges with both, both expressions. And by the way, there's various expressions of non monogamy too. And there's various expressions of monogamy, but not as much. It's more black and white, cut and dry in monogamy. But non monogamy, there's. The options are limitless. It comes down to personal preference and personal choice. So being where we are in today's society, that's very important. As a woman woman, if you're adamant and clear that you want monogamy in your relationship, first get clear on why it's really important to understand why that's important to you and then don't compromise on it if it's a non negotiable because I promise you it will be a tremendous source of pain and growth, but a tremendous source of pain that you can avoid if you have complete clarity on what you want and that if that's monogamy.

So I feel like a lot of people feel like, well, I'm a whole person and if I'm a whole person, then why aren't I enough for someone? Why do they need to be. Go searching for someone else to fill up the voids that I cannot fill for them? Like, why can't they just have a friend that they do that thing with? Why does it have to be someone that they're. Yeah. Romantically and sexually involved with?

This is a really complex conversation because there's so many expressions of non monogamy. So many. So in that case, it's not so much about that person not being whole or enough. It's actually got nothing to do with that most of the time. And this is a generalization and this isn't always the case. So I'm going to be really clear on that. When people are coming from a non monogamous place, when they're coming from purely a biological place, and so there's less integration of heart, soul, intelligence, cognition. Be really clear. That's not always the case. Not always the case. Some people are very aware of what they want and they're very clear on why. Non monogamy works for them. But seldom has it got to do anything with the other person. It's not that you're not whole enough if your partner comes to you and says, hey, non monogamy is it, this is what I want. It's not a reflection on you not being enough or you not being whole enough or you not being able to satisfy him with his needs. It's his own personal disposition, his own values. So we have to be careful not to take that on. Because then we feel rejected, we feel abandoned, and it becomes about the pain that we, we're experiencing when it's not about us in this sense. It's not that we're not enough, it's not that we're not whole, it's not that we, we've done something wrong. When people change their minds too, you know, we get to a sort of point in life that it's not that you've done enough development work or you, you're self aware enough that there are certain things, you just know what you want and you know what's good for you, what suits you and what really aligns with you. And not saying it's permanent, but you have clarity and that's it for, for you. And we've got to really go deep into that. We're going to go deep into these important subject matters such as monogamy, non monogamy, children, having children, starting a family, being purposeful in expression and so forth. And when we get really clear on that, we tend to attract and magnetize people that are in alignment with us. And here's the beauty. When we bring in people into our lives that aren't in alignment with those values and aren't in alignment with what's really important, we're not so emotionally attached to to it, we can recognize and say, oh, that doesn't suit me, goodbye, thank you, or this is all I can offer you, thank you. And there's no emotional charge to it. That's pretty Powerful. But that comes down to self awareness.

So what I've seen is a lot of people are like, well, am I less self aware because I want to be monogamous and that means I'm less evolved, right?

No, definitely not. Not 100%, no. It's a personal choice because it's a trend at the moment. Whether it's a fad or not is not relevant, but it is a trend at the moment. It's trending in conscious communities, more so and it's also been around for, since the beginning of time. It's not anything new. Is not anything new. And it's better suited to some personality types. And so those personality types need to match with personality types that can deal with that and be with that as well. And you are self aware. Just because I was going to go back to what I said at the beginning, what this article said, not this article, was the be all and end all. But this is coming from a non monogamous who's saying that non monogamy should be the norm because it causes less complications and less problems. It causes less restriction in relationship, it causes less pain and fear and doubt and the unknown. And monogamy really needs to be reserved for people that carry a greater self awareness awareness that carry a greater deeper commitment to self and understanding and that are really ready to spiritually evolve in that way. Now this is, that's I'm paraphrasing but they're his words essentially. And so no how, how from that perspective, why are you less evolved or not self aware or not whole if you believe in monogamy? Not at all. And not are you less evolved if you believe in non monogamy. It's just that that's a place that you're coming from in this point in time. Time.

So can you share what you wrote in your article, like your spiritual perspective of seeing monogamy as the highest form of relationship?

Yeah. One of my, my positions on this is that in non monogamy we let me, let me, let me come from, from monogamy. In monogamy, when you deeply commit to that person, there's something that transpires within us that, that level of commitment, there's a freedom through commitment, commitment. But it can only come when we fully throw ourselves in and see when we're in a monogamous relationship and we hit snags in the road, we hit sticking points and challenges and we're fully committed, there's less of a propensity and there's less distraction to look outside of that relationship. And so what happens is we're almost forced, especially if we commit to that value of monogamy, to really reflect, remain present to the discomfort that is arising and that can accelerate our growth when we move through that discomfort and through that pain. And so from that perspective, for me, monogamy, it's not whether it's more evolved or not evolved non monogamy, because you can still have that level of commitment in non monogamy as well. It's just more of a distraction.

Right. And I feel like a lot of times it's really easy to be like, oh, my boyfriend's pissing me off, so I'm going to go to one of my other boyfriends and he doesn't ever do this. And. And I feel like whenever I see it, these polyamorous relationships, it seems like way more work than a monogamous relationship because they're constantly going through things and have to talk about it and like hearts being broken. And it's like, why would you want to sign up for that? Like, that's how I feel. I'm like, that sounds like you're in pain, hurting people, you're not able to concentrate on other things. But I guess some people, they feel like they can't be in a relationship any other way.

And maybe that's comic, that's a comic disposition as well.

Well, it's like learning through pain. That's how I see it.

Yeah. And it's not to say that monogamous relationships don't have arguments or challenges or don't experience pain. Of course, of course people in monogamous relationships do. It is. And it can be handled differently. And again, I want to be really clear. I know people that are in non monogamous relationships that are actually deeply committed to the growth of that relationship and don't look outside when it gets tough, when it gets challenging. And they also, they happen to also question whether non monogamy is for them. Not all the people in that particular relationship that I'm referring to, I have to keep it confidential. Obviously a couple of them have those questions that arise. And so it's a massive learning. We have to stay true to what we want and we have to see beyond the cultural norm. I chose to see beyond what is culture and society telling me, because culture and society tells me that monogamy is the way you need to get mad married. But so many marriages end up in divorce. So many. That doesn't mean that monogamy doesn't work. It means that the institution and the structure around marriage or around the expression. The current expression of monogamy is not supporting monogamy in the healthiest way possible. So we have to go outside of that. We have to be trendsetters. We have to be, and I heard this yesterday, be as a leader. And even though, see this is really interesting, even though monogamy is the norm at the moment, moment conscious monogamy or more aware monogamy. That's the term I'm giving it.

Yeah, like the new monogamy, the new.

Monogamy, we're leaders in that space. If we're choosing to be really self aware in that space, you're gonna get a lot of arrows in your back. That's what, that's what happens as a leader. That's the term I heard yesterday. Not in reference to monogamy in some, in, in just in leadership in life in general. And so we have to be prepared to traverse new terrain. And that's part of it. And that's also, also really exciting. But don't for a moment moment think that if you're non monogamous or monogamous, you're not whole or you're less self aware. That's an individual disposition. And when you own your self awareness and you own that you're on a journey and that you're not always going to get it right and that's okay. And you give yourself permission to quote unquote, fail and you give yourself permission to succeed and you give yourself permission to learn and grow. Then you're self aware and you're whole.

Yeah. And it could just be, you know, maybe like a test from the universe. It says you're the perfect guy and the one thing is he's polyamorous. To see how much do you really.

Believe in monogamy and how much are you willing to self honor as well and stay true to your values and explore them at greater depth, really get into and say yep, I'm clear, this is exactly what I want. Or maybe I'm okay to try non monogamy and you tried and it hurts and you have to get clear that way and that's okay too. And you can learn from other people because it's good to learn. We're relational beings, we're pro social beings.

You don't have to do it yourself to know it's not for you.

Definitely not. Definitely not.

Yes. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing all your wisdom with us. And can you tell us about your course for men? So people listening, whether you're a man or you know, a man out there who, you know, you want to inspire him to be more conscious, but you want him to take the journey on his own, lead him to this course.

Yeah, this is my most favorite program that I have. I'm so deeply inspired by this and I've got a really special offer at the moment as well. And I'm just, I'm so deeply, deeply committed to this program. So I'll give you a brief understanding of it. I'll call it the Conscious Warrior. And it really, all it is is it teaches men, shows men how to be healthy men in contemporary times. That's the essence of the program. And it's based on 12 principles that I've created. And that Conscious Warrior program lends itself to a journey called Reclaim youm Kingdom, which is a three month online immersive journey for men. And we band together as brothers. We meet every week. There's live webinars, there's rich learning material, there's videos, there's a private Facebook group. It's honestly, it's fucking epic. And so a couple of things I've got going on at the moment. I've got scholarships for this because I want young men as. Because this is really a rite of passage in many different respects and teaches young men, particularly not just young men, but all men, how to reconnect to themselves and find their, their true, authentic, healthy male within. And so I've got scholarships available for this at the moment. All people need to do is connect with me. And this is really beautiful, beautiful. This is, this really excites me. Sons, if you sign up, your father can sign up for free. And fathers, if you sign up, your son can sign up for free as well.

Oh, I love that.

I'm really committed to seeing because I've had father and son do this before and it's just been such a beautiful experience for them and a massively growth promoting experience for all the other members in the group as well. And so when we make this type of generational change in our societies, when that we come back to that question at the beginning. Where are all the conscious men? This is how we create conscious men. I'm very big on men and women working together and that's something that both Christine and I will teach in the very near future. And I'm also very aware that women have had their own sister circles for a long time and men need that foundation before they can then bring their integrated wisdom out into the world in a co ed environment. Yes.

Yeah, I love that. It's such a good way instead of like having beers and throwing darts at the wall to like come together for something that will really inspire something deeper within you.

Yeah, I'd rather many if they're going to have beers and throw darts at the wall. Just come from a more conscious place. Yes, it's okay to do that. Just come from a more aware place. Don't numb and avoid. Yes, that's all. We don't need to do that as men anymore. We need to get into it.

So where can listeners connect with you and find your beautiful articles and all your work?

Great. Thank you Steph sefandos.com soon to be Stefanos sefandos.com but either way, either one will work. All my articles are there. All information on the courses are there on reclaim your kingdom.com and Instagram StefanoSafandos.

Great. And I will link to that in the show notes. Thank you so much for being on the highest self podcast.

Thank you so much for having me.

How awesome was that episode? I mean, I love talking about relationships. It's just so much fun because we're never taught in school how to relate to to people, how to, you know, have those kind of relationships we see in the movies. It's like, oh yeah, picture perfect. And then we don't have any idea how to get there. So that's why it was such a treat to have him on the podcast and to hear the male perspective too. Because, you know, it's often just a lot of girls giving a lot of girls advice and we don't really know the male perspective. And not that all men have the same perspective, but the more masculine perspective and how they genuinely do want to protect and serve us and be there for us and oftentimes it's just a confusion of they just don't know how. So this was such an awesome interview. Be sure to listen to it again, take notes and if you love this episode, I would love if you could leave me a review in the iTunes store. And as a free gift, I will share with you the first half of my unreleased book Eat right for your mind body type. Simply email a screenshot of your review over to Saharaetfield fresh.com again Sahara S A H A R aatfeelfresh.com and I will send you over the first half of my unreleased book Eat right for your mind body type. Thank you and namaste.

Sa.