290: How To Free Yourself From Society's Domestication with Tatyana Rae

Namaste, it's Sahara Rose. And welcome back to the Highest Self podcast, a place where we discuss what makes you your soul's highest evolvement. It is officially summer, and even though it may be a different summer than we are all used to, summer is here. Earth is still doing her natural shifts. And we are part of this beautiful, beautiful universe. And being part of this beautiful universe means being in touch with our true, authentic selves, releasing ourselves from societal conditioning, cultural conditioning. All of the masks that we wear that we were made to believe were here to make us feel safe or make us belong, or we wouldn't be loved if we didn't wear those masks. And now with this experience of 2020, it is becoming more and more clear that it is time to unveil ourselves from the bullshit and step into the truth of who we are from micro and macro level. And our guest today, Tatiana Ray, is such a fierce example of this. So I met Tatiana Ray back in January. She was speaking at my friend Sarah Pendrick's event, and she got on stage with her, like, see through heels, her dress, she's 69 years old, like, more glammed up than all of us there. And she, even though we're walking through the sand, she's like, I don't take off my heels. And she just goes on that stage. And her thing is just that she can't tell a lie. She only spits truth. And some of the things that she said made people feel really uncomfortable. She's definitely one to call people out if they're not being completely authentic to who they are and saying what they believe. And we are not used to this in our society. We are so used to cushioning what we say to make other people feel comfortable, speaking between the lines, being passive aggressive, not truly saying how we feel, and then kind of living in this world where everyone is lying. And I know in Persian culture, there's actually a word for this called tarof that we are taught to do as children. And she don't play those games. She is a shaman, a healer, a freedom mentor who trained with Don Miguel Ruiz for almost a decade and grew up, as she'll tell us, with an Apache parent and a Mexican shamanic parent. So completely growing up with that wisdom and that tradition, later trained to become a psychologist, worked as a therapist, and realized that she didn't want to just do counseling or even make people think that there's anything wrong with them. As she says in this episode, there's nothing wrong with you. There's nothing you need to heal. You are not not broken. It's just that you aren't telling the truth. So this, to me is such an important conversation to have because so often we're like, I'm broken, I'm fixed. I have no ambition. I have no drive. I'm not lovable. I'm not this, I'm not that. And we put all these labels on ourselves that we make to believe the true, and we're not really being honest with what is the belief underneath that you know, and. And sometimes truth can hurt. As Lizzo says, truth hurts. But maybe when you tell yourself the story of I'm not ambitious, it's that you're lazy and you prioritize watching Netflix over pursuing your dreams. Or maybe when you say, oh, I keep dating fuck boys, I can never stay in a committed relationship, oh, well, maybe you're just repeating the trauma from your childhood over and over and over again, but you're not willing to fully be seen, you know, so that can be difficult for us to look at. But if we don't actually look at it, then we're going to continue to repeat it. And that doesn't mean that that lie is your permanent truth. It just may mean that it's an aspect of yourself that you have overlooked, your shadow self that now needs to be healed. So we go there in this episode, just listening to Tatiana Ray speak, you're gonna be like, and I love her. You know, she always says lines are created by lies. Like lines on your face and wrinkles because she looks so glam. She looks like she's like 40 years old at 69 and is just such a beautiful expression of being your full, authentic self without holding back, without worrying or wondering what people think. She's like, this is who I am. I'm showing up like that. And that really gives us the invitation to do the same and whatever that looks like in our lives. So this is a powerful conversation. I know you are going to be blown away by her wisdom and just real deal, no BS truth. So without further ado, let's welcome Tatiana Ray on the Highest Self podcast. And before we get started, I have an announcement for you. Oh, my goddess sister Queen, I am so excited to share with you that Rose Gold Goddesses is officially open. We are accepting new members for the most high vibe community on the interwebs and in real life as well. What Rose Gold Goddess is, is. Is your sacred sisterhood collective. We have our very own app with all types of content to support you on your spiritual journey from all of My masterclasses, I upload content specifically for Rose Gold Goddesses. From manifestation to launching a podcast, to writing a book and everything in between to support you on your journey of becoming your highest self. There are thousands of like minded woman who are there to connect with you. Whether you want to meet up for a cup of ceremonial cacao or talk about your dharma or whatever it is that you need support with at this time, Rose Gold Goddesses has got you. Consider it your spiritual gym membership with all things to support you on your journey of becoming your highest self. So you can come join us at Rose gold goddesses again. That is rosegoldgoddesses.com and we are so excited to welcome you in. Welcome Tatiana to the Highest Self podcast. It's so great to have you here.

Thank you so much for inviting me. I'm really excited. Thank you.

The first question I'd love to ask you is, what makes you your highest self?

Oh, give me a minute or a second. Let's see. What makes me my highest? The fact that I want to tell the truth. The fact that I live to live what I'm feeling. It might sound like I'm not inconsiderate to others, but really I'm my highest self because I move according to how I feel. And when you're happy, you don't want to do ill to anybody. You know, you really don't have that in your consciousness to hurt anybody's feelings. The fact that they can get misunderstandings, of course, but this wasn't your intention. It wasn't my intention. So I would say I'm my highest self because I move according to how I moved and I trust it.

I love that. And you truly are a beautiful example of living in your radical truth. So a lot of podcast listeners are at this stage of their lives that they're really looking for their purpose. They don't really know if they have a purpose, where to find one. What advice do you have for someone on this journey?

Your purpose? I think the word purpose will confuse you. I really feel very strongly like, did I have a purpose? Did I know that I had a purpose? Do I even know what my purpose is now? Well, I've given myself a purpose in terms of a little ditty that I say, okay, but really our purpose is to love and be kind. And I like to say, don't shit in the cosmic pool, you know, because there's so many people, Sahara, that will be doing wonderful work and their yoga work and their breath work and, you know, and they eat all wonderful and Then they go home and have these huge fights with their husband. Do you understand how I'm saying it? Or they're really not that nice to people at work. Okay? It's a, it's an all the time thing. So purpose, they want their purpose first. Let your purpose be to watch yourself, to get to know yourself and how you're interacting with life. Let that be your purpose first. Let that be your true purpose. To see how am I interacting with life as it approaches me. And then I see that, you know, believe it or not, a purpose starts to make itself known. It starts to unfold before you. I feel that there are people that are like helper bees. There are people that are teachers, there are people that are so compassionate. There are people that just want to get things done, you know, but, but they're good at getting things done. There, there's visionaries, you see. And I feel that as you truly interact with each moment, not looking for your purpose, but looking how you're interacting, that's going to lead you to you and how you want to act in life, which is part of your purpose.

Yes. And I think our purpose is always changing. I think we look for our purpose like it's this one thing. And once I find it, everything is good. But your purpose at any given moment, I mean, your purpose in every given relationship is different. So it's hard to have this one thing that doesn't exist.

Absolutely. It's so constricting, really. I try and stay away from purpose because I say, don't have goals, have visions, because goals are structured. I want to lose ten pounds. That's a structure. But if you say I want to be healthy, then there's room for it to morph. First maybe you lose the ten pounds, then maybe you start getting some, I don't know, your muscles start looking better. Or then you start changing how you eat. All along you're working toward health, but you see how many different aspects of health can be integrated as opposed to, I want to lose 10 pounds. So then what, you stop eating or something, you lose the 10 pounds and are you healthy? Did you do it in a good way? I mean, what kind of food are you eating? You see all the different things that are not integrated. Purpose puts you in a box. Have a vision for yourself so that it can morph according to the moment. In the end, we are life. We are life and life will respond. Don't put yourself in situations where you can't respond. And I also don't believe that, you know, just because you have an 8 to 5 job that you're this unsuccessful person. That seems to be the norm right now. If you have a job job that you're not successful, that you're not living your purpose. That's not true. You see? How are you in that job? How do they need you? How do they use you? What are you offering as life, as self?

Yeah, 100%. I don't believe that everyone is meant to be an entrepreneur and that it is important for us to even be okay if our purpose is. You know, some people purpose, they genuinely just want to be a mom or just they want to have, like, an easy life by the beach. And that's okay too. We actually need people holding all levels of vibration. And that's why I like the word dharma over purpose. Because your dharma is your soul's expression. It's the frequency that you emit. But it's not defined by one career.

Absolutely. And see, we keep saying the word but we keep trying to assist people to get away from the word. Define, defined. Definite. Place, box, you know? No, no. Just let there be a flow. It's expression. Expression. I love what. Dharma. Give me that again.

Dharma.

Yes, yes, I know the word, but I didn't know what it actually meant the way you just said it. Yes. An expression of life. Yes. Beautiful. You see? And so what we're talking about right now is. We're talking about are you allowing this expression? And that's going to change. Oh, you wanted to change. Oh, my God. I mean, if things didn't change, we would still be the egg in the. Well, the spermatozoa wouldn't be there. We'd be the egg, that's for sure, in our mother's fallopian tube. And I'm not being ridiculous. I mean, we're talking about change. You want change? We went from being the egg to being the zygote to being the embryo to being the baby, to being the infant. You see? And now here we are in this beautiful adult body, young adult bodies, if you're listening to me, young adults, and you're still shifting and changing. And that's the beauty. That's the beauty is the flow of life going through you and shifting how you're able to present at each moment. Yes.

I think a huge reason why people don't know what that expression is is because of the obligations, whether it's from their family, society. Can you talk a little bit about the obligations that we have for everyone around us and how free ourselves from them?

Yes. The obligations we have always arise from domestication. But culture, we really have to pay attention to our cultures. I think that is an aspect of everybody's life that's listening that you're not really paying attention to. I know that many people are reaching to you for the Ayurvedic and the ancient sciences. You know, with me being shaman, they come to me a lot of times for the mysticism. Quite frankly, I don't practice that I can, but I don't. I really try and bring it into common sense and something that can be used in today's world. But also we have people of Irish heritage, German heritage, Algerian heritage, you see, what did your people practice in terms of spirituality? And so a lot of times what holds you back is not understanding your culture, not understanding your nest energy, what is it that you're steeped in? And once you can begin to recognize it, become more familiar with it, you'll understand more of its restrictions. You'll understand. I come from an Apache, Latin background, Mexican. And they're very family oriented people. They're very culturally oriented people. This is how it's been done for hundreds of years. And so when I broke out and broke away from that, there was a lot of upset. They're not happy. My own particular mentor is not very happy that I am as open as I am about my personal life. You see, and what these people can do that are listening to us right now is understand you're like a little tea bag that got steeped in the waters of your family history. Understand the family history first. Don't fight it. Understand the family history. Understand where these people are coming from and why they're judging you the way they are and what's inhibiting you in terms of their judgments. And then, yes, there is going to have to come a moment, Sahara, when we let go and we have to accept in our understanding of where they stand that we no longer stand there.

And I think a lot of people are afraid of that letting go. They don't even know what that letting go looks like. So, you know, we were just speaking about my own life as an example, so we could use that as an example because my audience kind of knows my situation. But for someone, let's say, who grew up in a more traditional culture where you kind of sacrificed your own needs and desires for the sake of the family. It had more of a tribal upbringing of you do what was best for the whole. And if you're not, you're selfish, you're egotistical, you' essentially not honoring your parents the way that they should by not listening to their advice and suggestion. How does someone break free from something as strong as that? That is truly ancestral.

It is ancestral, and it is something that you must then create another family that supports you. This is very true. We are pack animals, essentially, is the word I like to say. We're pack animals. We need those puppy piles. You know, when you see the little puppies and kitties when they're first born, and you wonder, how do they not suffocate? You know, the way they're piled on top. We need that energy and that touch and that closeness. So when we do decide to go and express ourselves and our family does not support how we're choosing to express ourselves, it is very, very true that you do absolutely need a family. Try. I hear the word tribe going around right now. You need a tribe, a village. You need people that understand what you're attempting to create, that support your vision, that are happy for you. They're just happy for you, you see, and that is, yes, it's very true, you are going to leave one family, but it's essential that you have another family to support you. Even if it's one person. Even if it's one person. You see, and in my case, I would say that one person that absolutely supports me is my husband. And talking about having people leave you. My husband is German, and his family is in Luxembourg and Germany. And when he got married with me, he decided to stay in America, whereas he used to kind of live bicoastally. And when he decided to stay in America, predominantly, it was a great upset. It was an enormous upset. And he was pretty much cast out, you see, but he stood by what he needed to express as himself, which was to be in this country, and his family is me. And the friends we've made, and my family, my mentor, are not always in sync with what I share. And so my support system that I completely trust is my husband. And then, believe it or not, it would be the viewers. It would be who's listening. And when you write in, when I post something on Instagram, you know, and they'll write something very sweet to me, you cannot imagine how empowering that is. How makes me feel loved. Loved, you see? Loved. And that's what we want from our families, to feel loved, accepted.

I agree with that. And I think a lot of people do give a lot of hate to social media. And there are shadow sides. But the same for me, when I was kind of leaving my family structure of figuring out what living my own path could look like. And they didn't understand why I was sharing everything on the Internet.

And that's.

That was so weird. And I'm an exhibitionist and I'm so attention hungry and all of these things. But it was because of the transformation that I would see and make it would make in other people's lives by me sharing that that would keep me going. That in a way I felt more conn, and I still do 100% today, feel more connected to my audience, to the person listening to this, than I might the people who raised me, because I'll always be grateful for them. And the person who listens to me now understands where I'm at at this point of time. Not loving me for the sake of blood relationships. And I think a lot of the reasons why we are even visiting people, talking to them, spending holidays with them, is simply because we have this blood relationship with them.

Like you said, obligation. Obligation. And that the truest love comes from desire, you know, curiosity. The truest deepest love comes intimacy. Intimacy. You know, when you and I were at that L A Girl Talk festival not too long ago in January, I spoke to many of the audience members. And the way they would hug me, the way they would kiss me, the way they would smile, the way they would laugh at anything I might have shared on stage, it was. That's, that's. That's a sister, you see.

Well, I think also you're like the elder and you're like mother figure that a lot of us people never had.

Yes.

Completely open and free and expressed and not telling us what to do, which I think a lot of women have dealt with.

And I feel I have a very, very privileged position right now. Very privileged because I am a crone. A crone. At 69, I am a crone. And I love that. You know, I have a perspective of time. Wisdom, it's become wisdom. But I'm also. My perception is not clouded by that time. So I still have the ability to be in the moment and to appreciate what's going on and how it's changing. And I love laughing at myself. And because, you know, dear little audience, I'm catching up to all of the media and how to use the computers and everything like that. And I love watching myself bumble through it. You see, I remember when the microwaves came out and my mother would scream at us, come into the microwave. And we'd say, oh, mother, all you have to do is push this and this, you know? But now I understand. When my sons were teaching, oh, mom, all you have to do is push this and this you. So it's, it's a beautiful place. The audience, I really want the audience to hear. The audience is such a support. It's such a dear, dear, dear support. And it's so valued. It is so. You all are so valued. When we look out and see you in the audience or when we read your comments or when we meet you in the street, it's a beautiful feeling. That's my family now. Yes, 100%.

So you have this really interesting perspective that we aren't born here to learn lessons, but rather we are to enjoy. Can you share on that more?

Absolutely. We, this, I mean, you've all heard this is a school room. This is a schoolroom. Earth is a school room. No, no. Earth is part of paradise. We were meant to come here and enjoy ourselves, enjoy our curiosity, enjoy our intellect, enjoy our creativity, to revel in everything that we could possibly contrive for ourselves. And then we decided to just stick it out. You know, you get in a relationship, I'm learning lessons. Don't, don't. Like I said to Sahara at one point, I'm in my garden and if I plant the plant in the wrong place and it dies, I go, oops, not going to do that again. For me, there's oops days and yay days and I either have a yay day or an oops day. But I'm not out to learn lessons. I am, however, paying attention. I'm paying attention to what I'm doing. I'm paying attention to my interaction with my environment and I will be learning from that. But I don't set out to do something to see what's going to happen so I can learn a lesson. No, no, we're not that stupid.

I mean, I think it really shows that we do create our reality. And if you set that intention of this Earth is for me to enjoy and to revel in and to have fun and the best time ever, then that's what's going to show up for us. And if we have a lot of people choose to learn through pain. They believe the only way I can grow is through pain. And I believe they keep choosing situations that make them suffer. How do we end for those people who subconsciously keep finding that they're in like the most difficult situation and that's the only way that they could change, which I think a lot of people have had to deal with that near death experience. But some people are living in a near death experience. How do you choose to no longer grow through suffering and instead grow through joy. And is it possible to surely learn through joy without the suffering?

Yes. What happens is do not get accustomed to suffering. Don't get addicted to suffering. Right now, we're addicted to suffering. And have you ever considered that once you're not suffering, you know, if you really begin to apply the work, if you really begin to apply your workshops and your books and everything that everybody's sharing, if you begin to apply this step by step, I say you're frightened. What's going to happen when I don't have anything to complain about? What's going to happen when it's all going smoothly? What am I going to do with all of this time? What am I going to do with this joy? Am I going to have to interact with people more? Do you see? Once I'm happy, am I going to have to be with people? Am I going to have to talk to people? These are all the little dark corners of ourselves that we don't look at, that we won't let ourselves look at. As long as I'm in some kind of turmoil, okay, it's up to me, and I'm always trying to figure out how to get out of it. But the moment I have no turmoil, the moment I don't have consequences anymore, what am I going to do with myself? You see, people are. I say we're terrified of having to interact with one another, of having to relate. And really, in the end, we go back to the pack animals and the little dogs and cats and kitties and, I don't know, even giraffes have herds. So relating, you're going to relate as long as you have these consequences that you're trying to untangle. You can keep your head down and you can say, oh, I'm working toward. And you can look like you're working toward, but you're not. You're evading. You're evading that eventual relationship with life. And life is waiting there with open arms, with hugs and kisses. There's no lessons. It's not going to say, oh, my God, where the fuck where you all this time? It's just gonna hug you and kiss you and twirl you around. So, yeah, you're evading. You are evading. If you continue to create some kind of chaos, because the chaos means you do not want to change. You do not want to change. You want life to change, but you don't want to change.

And I feel like what you're really saying is that it's not that it's not going to be challenging. We're definitely going to have challenges. But those challenges are for the purpose of you choosing your relishment, your joy, your truth. So, for example, breaking through a relationship that doesn't serve you, instead of sticking through and being like, well, I'm learning lessons. I'm learning to be more compassionate of just being like, hey, I can just end this relationship even if we're married, even if we have kids, even if we have all of this history together. Because at this moment, it's not serving me. And I would actually rather step away from it than suffer, suffer and suffer to try to make this work when I actually don't really want to.

You cannot marry yourself to potential.

Yeah.

You cannot. Do not create a relationship with potential, because potential is. God bless potential, but potential is that. Potential is something that has not quite blossomed yet, and that's where it will always be. This is an energy that we have given the word potential, and we've coined this word to corral our thoughts around so we all can agree on what this energy means. And potential means what? That it's someday. It's a someday energy. So it's just doing what it does. It's a someday energy. It's not ever going to be, you see? And so the hurt, the addiction to suffering is because you're afraid of being revealed in terms of how much joy do you contain? And maybe you're not as friendly as you say you are. Maybe you're more quiet. Maybe you're not as quiet as you say you are. Maybe you're more friendly. You see? Talk about posers. No.

So I think a lot of people genuinely don't know who they are. They genuinely don't know how friendly or this or that. Because we've constantly been striving, we've constantly been going from one thing to the next, that the energy has been really focused externally outward on the next goal. That most of us have not taken an opportunity to really just know ourselves. What do you recommend someone do, given that they're living an ordinary life and they can't, you know, leave for 10 years to get to know, like, what is it that I truly want? Who am I?

Well, first of all, the word ordinary life, it's like all of you out there, if you're alive, that is not ordinary. I mean, you guys are probably too young to know what an iron lung is. Sahara, do you know what an iron lung is?

I do not.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. In the 1950s, there was this thing called polio. Have you heard of polio?

Yeah, I have.

Okay.

There are vaccines for it still. That's the only reason why I know.

Exactly, Exactly. It's been eradicated. But there used to be this disease that people got, especially children, but any. Any age could get it.

Tell us what it was like before WI Fi. No, I'm kidding.

Yeah. It's the truth. At my time. I need to see. That's why when I work with people, I want to know what year you were born so that I can see the generation that coming from and the influences. It's very important. And iron lung was literally this machine that they put you in to breathe you, because you would get paralyzed. You would get paralyzed almost like you broke your neck. But it was a virus, okay? And it affected the muscles in your body, and they all went to sleep, like, literally to sleep. And so this big, huge tube, you were put into this tube. And I don't know how it works, but it would compress and express oxygen in a way that you were being breathed. The only thing that hung out was your head. And they would have mirrors on the ceiling so you could see. Okay. And sometimes they had a slow rotation, so at least it swung so that your blood could be moved. In other words, you were paralyzed in a tube and you looked at the ceiling for the rest of your life. Okay, so in ordinary life. Yeah. Put you in one of those for not even 24 hours. What? Half a day. Half a day where? That's your life. Where? That room and that ceiling is your life. No, no. There is no ordinary life. You're walking, you're breathing. You have the capacity to go outside, to be in the sun or the snow or the sleet or the rain or the humidity. You have the capacity to move your body wherever you want to move it. When you want to move it, you're alive. There is nothing ordinary about that. Now stop complaining and just start at square one. Because that's the other thing. People do not want to take steps. People want to go from A to Z, and I'm not saying we have to go from A to A, B, C, D, E each step. But there are steps. There's a journey. Let's call it that, if it's more palatable. There is a journey, you see? And so your ordinary life, I'm now telling you, is not ordinary. It's life. It's yours. Get excited about it being yours, okay? And if you have to work and you're trying to make rent and you're trying to make your car payment, you're Trying to make dog food, you know, get enough money for your dog's food. I get it. But you still get to do that. We need to go into appreciation more. We need to understand what does appreciation feel like? What is appreciation? And what does it feel like? Because when you can get happy about being able to feed your dog and get gas in your car. Now we're talking. There is no ordinary life. When somebody dies and they were part of your ordinary life, you still miss them. Why? Because they were part of this life. This life. Everybody wants something extraordinary now. They want something phenomenal. They want something out of this world. They want to be the only one. Well, you are the only one in the truest sense of being the only one. There is no one like you. No one. And there never will be. There never will be. Let's start there. Look at yourself in the mirror. Even identical twins. I never knew this. Identical twins. One zygote, one egg that splits and you get two beans out of one egg. Did you know they have their own fingerprints? They're mirrored fingerprints. They're fingerprints that mirror each other. But they still are not identical fingerprints. There's nothing in life that is identical. So ordinary doesn't exist. We have to develop a relationship with being alive. And that's being lost. Today. It's truly being lost. And I feel media has. That's one of its little culprits. I'm not blaming it, but that's one of its culprits. But let's use diversity to inspire ourselves, not to intimidate ourselves. And there's steps. There's steps. I may not be able to afford that, but I can afford this. And it's enough like that that makes me happy.

So what practices do you recommend to help people feel more alive?

How many of you know how to look into each other's eyes when you have a conversation? How many of you know how to stay quiet and stay with the conversation without thinking about what you want to say? How many of you know how to sit close to another person and enjoy that you're with them and they're with you? How many of you have ever had some type of intestinal problems where just being able to urinate and defecate without pain and at your heart's desire? How many of us had some broken bones and were in casts of any type and now we have use of that, of that arm or that leg, you see, we go back to appreciation. How do we live a better life? When was the last time you kissed your partner and you let yourself feel their lips and their tongue and the warmth of that little pink tongue. And you thought about it as a little pink tongue, you see? Or you looked at your partner naked and you appreciated all the lines in their body, you see? How many of us have sat with our grandmother and there she goes. Yeah, she's going to be talking about what she always talks about. But to appreciate how she is so happy to have us here, my grandma would make me tortillas, you know, And I'd go visit her. And it was like I always knew what was going to happen. She'd always take my head and she'd kiss me on the forehead, which is the third eye. She'd take my cheeks, and she'd always kiss me. Here it was. I always knew what was going to happen. It happened the same way every time. She'd show me where to sit, she'd put the same little place map. She'd go start the tortillas. But there was a richness in that. There was a comfort in that. There was a comfort in the knowing what was coming next. There was a comfort in that. So do I miss my grandmother. I miss her actions. I miss what we shared. It's not so much my grandmother, it's what we shared. It's what we heard from each other. It's what. It's the aromas in the kitchen, the taste of the fresh tortillas, hearing them slap back and forth in her hands because she would do that little slap, slap, slap, slap, slap thing. Because she would make them by hand, you see, I remember all of that. How many memories do we have of being with people and places? That's all we're looking for in life, is these beautiful scrapbooks of what we've experienced. And you talked about people who have had pain. Do you know that every seven years our cells slough off? You see? So we're an entirely new being every. Not exactly on the seventh year, but every seven years or so, we are an entirely new being. So whatever was damaged at one point, whatever was violated at one point in terms of our body no longer exists physically. It only lives in our mind as a memory. And you are feeding that memory. If you were to get amnesia somehow by a knock on the head and you didn't have that memory anymore about how you were hurt or raped or incest or betrayed. Mom left the home, dad was drunk all the time. If you got a little bump in the head and you couldn't remember that you had. You didn't have that anymore. How would Our lives change. You see, they would. They'd have to, because you wouldn't have that obstacle anymore. You wouldn't have that go to place every time you start to venture too far away from. Well, I was hurt. You know, we always look back. I can't. Can't get too far from that chair, you see? So is it easy to let go? No. Because the fear is if you let go of that time that you were hurt, you're going to have no excuses anymore for not living, for not participating. And I know you want to participate because when you guys hug me and kiss me at the workshops and places, there is so much warmth in your arms, in your lips. There is so much warmth. There's so much appreciation for me. There's so much excitement for being at the event. There's so much, much, much. There's just a lot of muchness. See, And I know people want to share that, and it's impossible to share that when you're sitting in the chair of remorse.

I love that. That's so beautifully said. And something that you spoke about was. You see, a lot of times people who do personal development work, whether it's workshop event, even listening to a podcast, they get very excited. They may have been listening to everything that you just said, nodding along. You're right. How do we change that excitement, that inspiration, into actual transformation?

Transformation. Yes, yes, yes. I'm all about transformation. Let us transform these selves that are suffering. You see? And the first thing I would love for you to do as the audience, is to know it's not about I'm worth it. No self worth. No self care, no authenticity. Get away from these terms and be you. Be my Diana. Be my Anthony. Be my family. Philip. Be my Ashley. Okay? Be my little sweetie pies. Be my sweetie pies. And know that you want something different. You want it different. You want to be that sweetness that you feel, that beauty that you feel, that tenderness that you feel. Do you know who are the most tender people that I ever encounter are men. Men and boys. Because they're so accustomed to not being hugged and to not being cherished, you know? And when I go to any kind of events or I lead some seminars or something, and I have men, boys, especially boys, young men, by that, I mean up to about 30. They're the ones that just melt into my arms because they know it's sincere. It's a sincere moment. I have no ulterior motives and they're safe. They're safe because I have no ulterior motives. And it's in that safety that their body melts into mine. So the motivation is, I want you to know, audience, I want you to know that what you are dying to express is this tenderness that you are, this sincerity that you are this. This beautiful presence and this. This smile. And when your eyes look at me and the clarity when you feel safe, your whole demeanor changes. And I want you to know you're the only one that can start feeling that safety. And then you can find someone like me, a Sahara rose. That we're sincere in what we're doing, so we are safe. When you're going to interact with us, we are sincere in our interaction with you, we are safe. We are safe. So you don't have to trust anyone out there, audience, trust yourself. Be your own best friend. Be there. Listen for yourself. Just because you're kind doesn't mean you're stupid, okay? I used to say that to my boys when I would drop them off someplace when they were teenagers. Say, just because I'm leaving you here doesn't mean I'm stupid. I know you can get into trouble. I know you can do drugs. I know you can do drinking, and you probably will. But don't think I'm stupid as a mother, okay? And I'm saying this to you as an audience. Be your own caretaker. Take care of yourself so that you can be this delicious, scrumptious person that you show up as at my events. Be that scrumptiousness. Take care of that scrumptiousness. Look out for that scrumptiousness. I'm not saying be wary and be suspicious. I'm saying be wise. You know what? You know? You know what? You know, it's not always easy to do, but you can do it. You want to be that scrumptiousness as much as I want to have it within my distance so that I can see it and love it up. When was the last time you licked your plate clean when it came to expressing yourself? You see? And this is what we want, and this is our universal sadness. This is the lamentation of mankind. We're tired of cruelty. We're tired of indifference. Well, then be this beautiful, lovely, delicious cornucopia of self. And part of that cornucopia is, you are not stupid. So stop playing deaf, dumb and blind. Yeah.

Thank you for sharing that. I think a lot of it is, as you said, the domestication. And I really like that term because it allows us to say, see that we are these wild animals, wild horses, completely free. But then We've been taught to stay in our confines and behave a certain way and let, you know, our boss or teacher or whatever, like, essentially ride on us and tell us how to go. And if we gallop a little bit too fast, we're kind of, like, whipped and put back into shape. And then eventually we're put out into these free open fields. But we think that we're still attached. There's this beautiful meme, I don't know if you saw it, maybe some audience members have, of a horse that's just tied onto, like, an empty trash can, right? The trash can has no weight, but the horse is just stuck there and standing there, and it's like, this is how most of us live our lives. We think that we're attached to something, but the horse could have actually just moved and been totally free. So can you share a little bit more about this domestication, how it shows up? How do we know if we are domesticated? I see it a lot on the dance floor of people who, you know, especially at ecstatic dances, they don't know what to do. They're looking around at everyone around them thinking they need to do choreography or something else to impress someone. It shows up in all areas of her life. So what does this domestication look like? How do we free ourselves from it?

Domestication essentially means how we were programmed. Domestication started out as an essential component of being human. Domestication, simply said, is a set of rules, a set of guidelines that we have all agreed to. And in the beginning, we agreed to them because it was important as a people, fledgling humans on Earth surviving. So the domestication was, don't eat all the food. There's four of us here. Or the domestication was splitting the duties apart. Okay, the domestication was a set of guidelines that were set up in order to ensure sure that mankind could flourish and thrive. But what started out as a life jacket became a straight jacket. Okay? So domestication started out with really good intentions in terms of, well, if we don't run the red light, there'll be fewer accidents. Okay, so domestication, first of all, to explain what it is, It's a set of rules meant as guidelines. But these, if you hear it, they're guidelines. Guidelines to help to help you in your daily life. But when a rule transgresses and becomes a dichotomy. Not a dichotomy. No, no, no. What's the word I'm searching for? Like a dictatorship, okay, where there's no choice, because even a rule has some potential of stretching but when that rule ventures into the territory of being an actual dictatorship, that's what's happened with domestication today. We are all born into societies that this is how it's done, this is how it's always been done, and this is how you are going to do it. Okay? So I want you to understand that first it was meant to assist us to live together. To live together and to thrive, to remind us of how to live best, to live together. Then it has arrived now, today, where it's a dictatorship, where we must conform to these various ways of being or we're going to be excommunicated. Now, that's the second part. The second part of domestication is you want to be part of the family, because like I said, we're a little dog pack. We want to be part of that family because in the old, old, old original days, if you weren't part of some kind of a tribe family, a pod, you died, you died. That was it. You died. Okay? So it's built into us to want to be part of a pod. So in order to be in this pod, we follow these strictures that have been created now. So we go from the domestication of having guidelines to pods that were created for our own good, supposedly. Now what happens is you come along, especially my beautiful people from nowadays, and you're beginning to say, I don't know about these guidelines. They don't work for me. Well, that. Okay, I can see the one about stopping at a red light, but I really, really don't get why I can't turn right on a red light. I mean, what's with that? Okay, so you're starting to question these rules and you're trying to take them back to being guidelines. You're taking them from a dictatorship. You're examining them as rules. And what I see you all doing is trying to create. Create guidelines because we do live together and there are many, many viewpoints. But the part that we must all understand is that when you cooperate, you can have many, many, many viewpoints that cooperate on certain guidelines. And that doesn't mean you give up your viewpoint. So you can be Muslim, Jewish, Protestant, Catholic, and agree that we pick up our dog poop and it doesn't interfere with a personal belief. Is this making sense to you? Yeah, so domestication has become distorted. There was a point, and there can be a point again where it assists us to live together in harmony, with respect, but they're not dictated forms of living that says if you don't live this way, we will Excommunicate you. And this is what we are all afraid of in the end. Everybody listening. Everybody listening, Myself included. At one point, I was terrified of not being included. And I'm no longer terrified of that. Because I know that whether or not I belong to a certain family, a certain village, a certain pod, I still have life surging within me and expression still attempting to make its way out. And that is what keeps me very happy and very safe, is my own self expression.

I love that. And I think everyone does, whether they know it or not, have this fear of being dismissed, excluded. Even the people who are like, I don't give a fuck what people think about me. We all have this underneath us. And I do think a lot of it is, you know, ancestral, kind of biological, as you said, because we could have literally, I mean, if our tribe decided to excommunicate us, we would be out in the cold with no food, no shelters. But we still have that in our DNA. But it's no longer the truth. I mean, if you look at the truth, most of us, especially in this generation, are both by ourselves all the time. So now we're so afraid of being discommunicated by people who actually, we've never even met a lot of them, which is just this very interesting if you're trying to fit into a culture, a group of people that doesn't really truly exist. It's just this shared ideology or it's wherever you happen to have been born in this life. You know, like, I was born in Michigan. And this is what people in Michigan do. Not knowing that that was just like, act one and you're gonna have act two, three, act four, act five, but you're like, so stuck on making Act One work. And like the movie can't go on.

Exactly. I love that analogy. And I want the people, I want the audience to get excited that there's more. There is more. Do not be so harsh on yourself. If you have employment right now and it's eight to five, you're working, God bless you, you know, thank you. Thank you very much. Be excited, though. Be excited. Like Sahara said about the next act, the next day, the next moment, because it is exciting and we made it. I know Miguel Ruiz, who was my mentor, he wrote the Four Agreements. And he used to say, when you look at yourself, say, I won. And the first time I heard that, I thought, I won. Okay, I won. What? He said, no, that egg and that sperm that created you won. That little sperm that got into the egg and created you, Tatiana won You won. You won the race. And I thought, oh my God, yes, because there were lots of sperms, there were lots of ways I could have been created and look like, but I look like this. This is what won. You see? And it's very. You are exciting. We are exciting. Stop looking at yourself as this three dimensional person that has no future simply because you feel you don't make enough money or you don't have a boyfriend or a girlfriend or you're undecided in terms of gender. You're alive. You're alive and you have your self expression and that's got nothing to do with gender. It has everything to do with your heartfulness and your creativity. You see. Be excited about something in your life. Find something to be excited. Because relationship does not have to be with another person, but eventually you do have to be in relationship with something, if not someone. I know when you were writing your book, perhaps I should ask you. I mean, I'm sure you got into a very deep relationship with that project and other things didn't exist. It was you and the project and the book.

100%. I had to actually give up so much to be able to give my full self to that relationship because I knew that that was the highest use of my energy. And because of that, that means maybe letting go of spending as much time with friends or even being friends with certain people who may have held me back from giving that energy. And of course the family and the parent bond. We'll take a quick break so I can give a shout out to our sponsors. Are you that person that all your friends and family members come to when they need wellness advice? Are you constant, constantly looking up new ways to heal and balance your mind, body and spirit, including listening to this podcast? Well, have you ever considered having a career, becoming a holistic health coach where you get to decide your own hours, work with people, tackling the subjects that you are the most passionate about and having financial freedom along the way. Well, I'm so excited to be teaming up with my very own alma mater, Institute for Integrative Nutrition to offer offer their biggest discount yet. You'll receive $2,250 off tuition, an extra bonus that they're offering just with my high self podcast listeners on how to launch your dream book. This course is going to get you super clear on what your book is about and how to bring it out into the world. I've created a webinar for you on how to have a thriving business as a health coach. So using social media, creating passive income, how to have a wait list of clients and become the best known coach in your niche with raving testimonials Tickets to a live upcoming IIN conference where I will be meeting you over there. Super excited to connect and a bundle of all digital wellness guides like Ayurveda, Selflove, Whole Food Eating, etc so all you have to do is head over to my show notes. You'll see the link over there. It's a little bitly link. It'll take you right there. You'll be able to receive a sample class, check out the the curriculum, get all your questions answered and I'm so excited to have you on this mission raising the vibration of the planet together as a health coach. Again, head over to my show notes. You'll see the link right there and I'll see you inside A lot of us don't feel comfortable going to supermarkets right now and cafes are closed, which means we aren't picking up green juices or even buying fresh produce as often. But right now it is more important than ever before to keep our immune systems high, especially with greens and superfoods. I've been drinking Organifi green every single day and it's been a goddess send. It contains immune boosting ingredients like moringa, chlorella, spirulina, wheatgrass, ashwagandha, turmeric, lemon, mint and so much more. It takes only 1 minute to add in into my water and I feel so good knowing that at least I got my greens in for that day which frankly I may not have had otherwise. I've also sent it to my family members to keep them healthy. At this time too, you can receive 20% off your Organifi@Organifi.com using coupon code Sahara Again, that's organifi o r G a n I f I.com using coupon on code Sahara and that link is in the show notes. So something else that you said that really stuck with me was when parents say I sacrificed so much for you. You know, I sacrificed so much for you to be here. I worked so hard, I did everything for you and you offered this perspective of no one chose you to have sex with my biological father. That was your choice. So can you share a little bit more about that? Because it was a really refreshing and expansive point of view for me.

I feel I can say this as a mother, as a woman that has had children, and not to offend any people out here in my audience that are attempting to get pregnant or have had difficulty with fertility, but when I was a married woman in my first marriage. I had several abortions and we were taking care, you know, I happened to be. We discovered I'm one of those women that when I take the pillow, I have to take it at the same time every day. My system really clocks it in. Anyway, I got pregnant. I had abortions, okay? And I had abortions until I decided to keep that particular baby that I got pregnant with. I decided. So I was having sex with my husband, my husband didn't want children. I got pregnant yet again and I went to have the abortion and I decided, no, it's not going to happen. I am going to have this baby. I made that choice. As it turns out, I ended up getting divorced later on and I had him and five years later his brother. So I had an 11 year old and a six year old when we finally divorced. And I say finally because it was in the works. That was my choice. It was my choice to. I got pregnant. It was my choice to have sex knowing, oh my God, I don't know why this happens to us. But I get pregnant all the time. I mean, don't. I'm being very serious right now. Even having sex was frightening to us sometimes because we would get pregnant, even using precautions, you see. So we had sex, I got pregnant, I aborted, and finally I didn't abort and I had that child and the marriage didn't work and I got divorced and I was a single parent in days when you were really single parents, I raised them 100% alone. Nobody made me do this. My children do not owe me anything. I carried them for nine months. Yeah, I carried them for nine months. That's the gestation period for a human being. I gave birth. Yeah, I gave birth. That's how we do it. Nobody made me do anything. This, this child came through as a result of my actions, my choices. This child exists because of my actions, my choices. This precious life is a gift to me. What happens then is the domestication comes to live in the house is a nana. I don't know, in your culture, Nana, in my culture is a grandma. Okay? So here you are, you have this precious life and who comes to live the nana comes the nana of domestication. You are going to do this with the child and you're going to do this with the child, and you're going to do this with the child as the parent. But the poor child has. It comes with a whole manual of what the child is required to do as the child, for the parents. And so the child never gets to really understand that it is a gift as life to life. It's life presencing itself, gave birth to itself, and life brought forth another segment of itself. And here it lives, this preciousness lives as a source segment of itself. And then because of domestication and because of our cultural heritage and because of caveman days, truly, all these influences converge on this precious life and snuff it out. But if it doesn't get snuffed out, then it has to live in guilt. So usually it's better off getting snuffed out. I'm saying that sarcastically, but it's oftentimes that's why most of our audience right now is snuffed out. Because you either get snuffed out or you live in spiritual castration. You live ostracized, you live excommunicated. You live shunned by the very beings that brought you forth. And then you spend your life attempting to gain their love, their presence, their appreciation, their understanding, their encouragement, when the whole time it's supposed to be the opposite. They're supposed to encourage you because they got to be that precious life. They already got their chance. I got my chance at being that precious life. And believe me, when I was born, because of the time I was born, I was the first grandchildren, I was the first niece. I was like. I was like a little doll. I was really lucky. I was like a little doll. I got to experience being a little doll. But so I'm saying that to say that I got my chance. I got my chance. And then when my sons were born, that's their chance to be that special little doll, that special little being, that piece of life, having been given life by life. And you, all of you listening right now, this is what you miss. This is why you keep looking outside of yourself for that hug and that kiss and that acknowledgment and that encouragement and that you're safe. Because really, in the end, who are we not safe from? We're not safe from the very families that gave birth to us. And that's. That's a difficult thing to say. It's a very difficult thing to say and to acknowledge. The very people that gave birth to us as life to life are the very people that are not safe to be with. So then we leave them, and there's this guilt that will permeate our every waking moment. Even as we create lives that mean something, that are fulfilling, that are sweet, that are quiet and kind, they still carry the guilt that our true family is not the family we're with is not the family we're celebrating with. Is not the family we look forward to being with.

Yeah. I think for most people, they're born into a family and that family gives them whatever we could call it lessons or background or curriculum that they first needed and then from there they choose to surround themselves by the family that they want to be around. So now how do you, what do you recommend? Let's say you, you feel like, you still feel like you need to see your family for holidays, graduations, funerals, weddings, but you don't like being around them. What advice do you have around that?

I always tell my clients that when you're doing this type of work, my little audience members, I just adore you right now. I can just feel your energy. You're just like leaning forward and listening and thank you. So I say you're being mentored. You're being mentored right now. Okay? You're listening to podcasts, you trust Sahara Rose, you trust who she brings on the show. You're reading. Perhaps you're all influencing each other on Instagram and Facebook. Even so, you are, you are being mentored. You are looking toward yourself. You are attempting to expand your expression. Okay. You really are. And that's the transformation part that I want you to do. I want you to constantly attempt, attempt to expand your expression. But don't forget, sweethearts, you're the one doing this. Your mom and your dad, your aunts and your uncles, your cousins are not. As I get older, my cousins, of course, are aging with me. And I'm beginning to see we were, we grew up shamanically, we didn't grow up with all this Jesus in heaven things. And as we're getting older, I'm seeing my family post stuff. People are starting to pass away, you know, and we're going to join them in heaven. And I'm not saying this for anybody else who believes this way. I'm saying this for my particular family. So I find it very odd to suddenly see my cousin saying, we're going to see you in heaven and their dog died. I know my dog's waiting for me in heaven. What I'm saying to that is be careful with the mentoring. You're the one who's looking forward to expressing more of yourself. They're quite comfortable. So when you go visit them, only go. I have a rule for myself. I go when I know I can be open minded. I go when I know I can be patient and kind. I go when I know or I call or I speak to them. I attend weddings when I know I can accept, accept with an open heart that this is how they see it, this is how they feel it. This is their safety zone. And I respect doesn't mean I have entered it or I entertain it. But in respecting it, I am there at the weddings or the funerals or the Thanksgivings. It doesn't mean that I am joining them. It means I am respecting their safety zones. But don't forget, you're the one being mentored. You're the one that's curious. You're the one who wants more for yourself. They're not doing that and we have to respect that.

Thank you so much for sharing. And what do you recommend for people who are maybe marrying into a family? Their in laws are very different from them. So sometimes with your family, like, they drive you crazy, but they're your family, both in laws. It's kind of like these new people so that like blood love is not necessarily there. You're kind of choosing and making yourself to love these completely new people. And a lot of times, and I know a lot of people I've spoken to myself, their in laws are completely different from them a lot of times politically different, religiously different. So they're types of people that you probably would never spend time within your normal life. So how do you stay open to that because you want to, for the.

Love of your partner, if you're truly mentoring yourself or if you have a mentor, if you have someone you speak to or let's say these podcasts are what you're using as a backdrop for self reflection. If you're really serious about this, then part of the transformation is going to be situations like what you're asking me, Sahara, that will be part of the transformative process. It's like, okay, I'm gonna go visit my parents in law or my boyfriend's parents or my girlfriend's parents. Okay. And yes, I remember the first time I met my son Gregory's father John's parents. I mean, in those days, Mr. Young smoked cigars and like my entire family, nobody smoked cigarettes even. And I was appalled. He'd sit there in the house puffing on these big fat cigars. I was like, oh, my God. And today in those days, I was appalled. I was in total judgment the whole time. I was uncomfortable the whole time I was there. I was, I was devastated. I wanted to get out of the house so bad, you know, to me, I was sitting in stench, you know, the cigar smoke. What I say now is what I do now because my My husband's parent is very different lifestyle, very different lifestyle to me. I constantly remind myself I am the one who is seeking more expression. And I see them as a bug in the jar. And I see them with curiosity instead of judgment. And it's not easy all the time because she will definitely do things that I find very strange. But then I noticed, is she doing things that are mean and harmful or is she doing things that are strange and odd? And generally they're strange and odd to me. But a couple of times something that I would judge it was mean. My family wouldn't do that or my family wouldn't say that and I would put it in a mean category. True. But for the most part, it's just odd behavior that I haven't had much to do with. In terms of, like you said, our family, my family. So what I do now, even at this age, even at this time, with any family, any family functions, I see them as bugs in a jar. And I remember that I am the one that is exercising self expression. Expression. They are not. They are not. And when I can see it as diversity was meant to inspire, not intimidate. What I remember about the inspiration part is it inspires me to really say, oh boy, I gotta remember not to do that. See, it's not a negative, but it's kind of like a double negative. It inspires me to pay more attention to if I was to do that.

So how do we know when it's teaching us more patience? Like a lot of people, especially around the holidays, are saying, being around my family helps me cultivate more patience. Or you think you're enlightened until you spend a weekend with your family and you realize you're not. So how do you know if it's that more of the lesson or like you actually just don't need to spend time with them?

There does come a moment, There is absolutely a moment where you are, you're being kind by accepting them. And I don't mean that as, you know, talking down to them. I don't mean that at all. I mean, you actually are being kind. You're, you're seeing them with a compassion. You're seeing them, they're a bug in the jar. They're different. You're able to look at it and not get offended, not get intimidated. You're. That, that's working. But the moment you can see that the people you're visiting are acting in a way that is distressing to you, Distressing, then, no, that's the moment you choose to not go around. You should not ever put yourself in a position where it's distressing to you.

Well, I think most people like sentiment around the holidays, is it does get distressing for them.

But most of the distress, though, most often when my clients are saying they're distressed, they're being inconvenienced. I'm talking distinct stress.

What's the difference between that?

Inconveniences. Grandma's telling the same old jokes and Uncle Henry's pounding on the piano and he sings off key and, oh, my God, it's going to be a long night. Okay? And every year at Christmas and Thanksgiving, this is what we get. Okay? That's. I could be at Sahara Rose's dance a thon, you know, so that's inconvenience. Distressing would be that the family gets together and you happen to be a family that is very disruptive. You happen to be a family where the dynamic is a lot of yelling and screaming. You happen to be a family where. And there are some families like this where no holds barred when it comes to being unkind to each other. That is true distress. No one has the right to be unkind to you. Nobody. Which is what I stress when I say being a mother or a father. No one has the right. The right to be unkind to you. No. So that's distress. Because the distress comes physiologically, is we will feel unsafe. And your body does what it was meant to do. Sahara, you know, we've all had anatomy classes, but your body will start to tense. The heart rate goes up, the pupils dilate, you start to get clammy, you know, hyperventilation, depending on how long you've been sitting at the table and how long they've been screaming at each other. Okay? The body's doing what it's supposed to do. And what is it supposed to do? It's supposed to get you the hell out of there. The body's not judging that it's Grandma and Grandpa going at it again. Okay? The body is not judging that it started because your Uncle Tom's turkey, somebody said it was too small this year, okay? The body doesn't differentiate. The body just hears the screaming and the ranting and the raving, and the body does what it's supposed to do, get you out of there, which means it goes into alert. That's distress. And no one deserves to be in that type of an environment where your body feels unsafe and is trying to do its job. I really want to stress that part. I really want to stress the physiological Part you're not making it up. It's not in your head. When your heart's beating faster and you're starting to breathe more shallow and your pupils are dilating and you're getting kind of clammy, and yet you're just sitting in the chair like that. But all of this is happening. It's happening. Your body doesn't want to be there. That's distress.

And I think we don't even think about the domino effect of, okay, maybe you made it through that dinner, but how is it affecting you the next day? And in how you show up in your work, for your partner, for your kids, for your friends? And when you are in that fight or flight state, essentially you're gonna react in a more fight and flighty way. And that's gonna create that trickle down effect. Everyone you meet. And I just think that we need to get rid of this feeling of, I have to do this, I have to do that because they're my family, I have to show up.

You don't.

And I think that that's really what your message is about, is like, you don't have to do anything.

And they're gonna get angry, and they're gonna get angry and they're gonna get hurt. But if you are in this distressed mode, that is more harmful than not being encouraged by your family.

So there's so much more to go there. We'll have to have another family podcast. So to you as a freedom mentor, what does full personal freedom look like?

Personal freedom to me means that I run my life, I walk through my life, I live my life, and to the best of my ability, I attempt to not let anybody's judgments and opinions or beliefs about me interfere with what I choose to do next. Am I completely rid of being influenced, uninfluenced by others? No, that's an enlightened person. Okay. That's an enlightened person. But I have a great deal of my hurts and my pains, and people don't like me for this or people don't like me for that. I mean, one of the things that I. It's interesting that people will judge me on, often people my age, more my age group. And it's really funny. Thank you for letting me say this. And I love the audience for this. My age group will judge me for how I dress.

And you dress super sexy. I love it. You're like in your clear heels and your pink tight dress.

Yes, yes. You know, and I love it. I'm my own Barbie doll, you see? And I Can afford to do it still. You see, I'm healthy, but my age group is very offended by that dress. Your age, you see, and yet the younger group, I call it my children, you see, you all encourage me and say, like you just did, it was so spontaneous, what you just did. It was so spontaneous, you see, and that's what I love. And so I would love to say to the audience, you can be in two places where some people do not understand you at all, and then there are others that totally champion you. And that's what you want to go. You want to listen to those that champion you.

Yeah, I think this whole dress your age thing needs to go dive. You know, it's such a weird. My mom saw I got a tattoo, she was so mad. She was like, aren't you too old for this? I'm like, before I was too young for it, and now I'm too old for it. So what was the age that it was? Right. You know, it's like, it's just like always something, you know, and it's just like, I think. And it's something passed on. I don't even think she knows where that thought is coming from. It's something passed on. You're either too old, you're too young, you're too this, you're too that. Because they don't know how to explain that. It's just making them feel uncomfortable.

Absolutely. It makes them feel uncomfortable. That's my daughter and she's violated her body. You know, I remember the first time one of my sons got a tattoo and I remember my reaction. I remember I saw it and I went internally, I went. And then I went, oh. And then I went, oh. And then I went, oh, his little. His body. That was. And then I said, tatiana. Yeah, right. His body. His body. Not your body, his body.

And that's the thing. It's the lack of separation. It's. The umbilical cord is still tied. That you're like, I created that pristine body with its beautiful skin and it's my territory, you know? And yes, even if he's. Your son is 50 years old now, your eldest son. And you know, for many women would still look at their 50 year old son and be like, have you been doing your laundry? Have you been doing this? That. Because energetically, that umbilical cord is still tied.

Still tied. Yes. And so personal freedom is actually a. Personal freedom is a symbolical cord to domestication. I love that you gave that to me. I would say that not having personal freedom means you have A nice big thick umbilical cord to domestication. Okay? My umbilical cord is to the divine. Okay? I'm tied to my self expression. I'm fed by my self expression. And my uterus is the all of all, you see? So to have personal freedom means that little by little, I am eradicating my need to be validated, to be seen, to be heard. Please, please, who needs to see me, who needs to hear me, who needs to understand me. If you understand me, you're going to understand me. If you don't like me, you're not going to like me. If I'm too direct for you, God bless you, I understand. Because there are other people for me that are just too diplomatic, you know? And there we are with that. That's all. So personal freedom means me being able to self express in the moment, regardless of what I may be feeling in terms of outside pressure. But my need, my absolute need to express is more important.

I love that quotable. My umbilical cord is tied to the divine. That is amazing. And can you tell us a little bit about how lying ages us?

Oh, absolutely. When you tell a lie, it's another line on your face. It's another wrinkle in time. Absolutely. Because when we lie, that means there is a truth that exists for you and it wants to be expressed. But your fear of being shunned is more powerful than your desire to express. So you sublimate, you subjugate, you push it down and under. So what you really want to see, say or feel or do gets pushed down. And where does it get pushed down? It gets pushed down into you. Physiologically, we're not. We're not solid. And I understand why we forget this. I understand why we forget this. But I'm going to give you an image. And I would love you all if I die tomorrow. Remember this, okay? Think of yourself as a collection of soap bubbles. I know we're cellular. But the image that's easier to process is this wonderful amalgamation, this wonderful cohesion of soap bubbles. And all of these soap bubbles have created your body. It's not solid. So when you have these feelings that are emitted, think of that as notes. Notes in a song like those little. I never took music. I'm sorry, are they called little notes? You know, the little black things with tails? Notes. Right. Okay. So think of feelings as being notes. And when you don't play your song, you have to squish it back into the soap bubbles. And pretty soon you have too many notes and not enough soap bubbles. And the soap bubbles start getting distorted depending on the song that you're squishing into it. And pretty soon we're distended. We have bloating, or we have puffy eyes, or, you know, we have heavy.

Jowls, which you've said is related to what chakra we're out of balance with.

Absolutely. It has to do with the chakra. It has to do with the place in life that you're not allowing yourself to express. A lot of throat issues, a lot of lung issues. You see, they all have to do with. No, you may not say that, and you may not say this. And fingers, arthritis, all of those. Diabetes. I have compassion, and I understand it's become a disease or a malady for your body. I understand. But it didn't start out as that. It did not start out as diabetes. It started out as, believe it or not, shamanically, we believe, since it has to do with sugar, okay, the imbalance of sugar. What was sour in your life that you allowed for way too long? Okay, what was sour in your life? So now you need a lot of sugar, or you don't have enough sugar, but the sugar is off because you allowed sour for too long, you see? And so it's very, very beautiful to know that age. We were never meant to age. We were never meant. We were meant to be healthy. We were meant to be vital. By aging. I mean, am I older now than when I was 17 and had Gregory? Yes. Have I lost some of the elasticity in my skin? Yes. Am I as tight and taunt? No. But I am still as healthy. I'm still as vital. I still have a minimum of wrinkles because I refuse to put anything into my soap bubbles that doesn't belong there other than elation, other than a sweet anticipation, other than anything sweet and beautiful. I will not put anything ugly into myself. I won't. And as far as energy vampires, oh, please vanquish that for now. There's no such thing as an energy vampire. We are each our own domain, our own kingdom. And right now, if I am influencing you in any way, it's because I'm influencing you. But I am not being integrated into you. I do not have an in into your body or your energy. Nobody does. That is sacred terrain.

That is a really interesting point you brought up, because a lot of people, okay, the huge spiritual talk right now on Instagram is being an empath and really having to be careful of who you're around, being very energy sensitive. And then this term energy vampire. And I have Experienced it. I have experienced certain people when I'm out of their presence, I feel worse, I feel down. I feel like when I was in conversation with them, they're like asking me a lot of questions and prying. So I have felt that. But I can't put the blame on them. It was a level of my receptivity that allowed that to happen and also my lack of putting a boundary when I noticed it happening. So, yeah, I'd love to hear what your thoughts are right now that so many people are realizing that they're empathic, which everyone is, but it's holding them back from having interactions with a lot of people.

Absolutely. Throw those books away. I mean, call me instead. Jesus Christ. The way I say it is there are two ways to collect information. Like Miguel made the, you know, the four agreements we he simplified, okay? And I'm simplifying, please, I am simplifying, but I've simplified collecting information to two paradigms. There's the empath and the clairsentient. I am a clairsentient when I collect information. Remember, I'm just an amalgamation of soap bubbles, okay? And so I'm all we do all day, all of us is emit and receive and emit and receive. And so when I collect information in my day, I just know what I know. I know what I know. Oh, he's not very happy because of the language he's using. Let's say, okay, if I was with you and you're an empath, I like to say it this way. You and I go to a party and Susie and Joe are in the corner and they're canoodling, okay? And they're both married to different people. I look over and I'm not saying any woo woo. I just look over and I go, something's going on over there. How can I tell in two seconds? The hair tossing and the giggling and the way her breasts are coming out and the way he's leaning on the fire mantle, you know, and all his masculinity is on display, you know, and all her femininity is open and receiving, okay? Doesn't you know, anybody goes, something's going on over there. You look over as an empath, you see the same thing, you say the same thing. However, you go one step further, you feel the energy to me, I've received the information, something's going on over there. You receive the information, something's going on over there. However, you take it a step further and you can feel it. So you'll feel the giddiness you'll feel the lust, you'll feel a little bit of guilt, you'll feel a little bit of self consciousness because it's at the party. Do you understand what I'm saying? You'll feel. You'll feel what you just saw in terms of something's going on over there. I don't feel that as a clairsentient. The pros and the cons. Number one, though, I want to say it's just in formation. You felt the lust, you felt the giddiness, you felt a little bit of their self consciousness. It's just information. It's nothing for you to do anything about. What happens with empaths is you start sticking your fingers in everybody's pie and making whatever's going on around you your business. It's none of your business. It was information. It's like if you're walking past a window and some lady or man is undressing and you see them half naked. Information. Nothing to report to the police. Okay, Number one. Number two, because it's information, you have not been educated. We should really educate our children so that you know from early on you're an empath or you're a clairsentient. What happens with empaths, my empath people, is you're very sensitive because you feel the energy, you feel the information. I want you to remember it that way. I'm an empath, I feel the inflammation. I'm a clairsentient. I just know the information. So what happens with my empath people is because they feel the information, they immediately start getting involved with the information and it's none of their business. So they can look clingy, they can come across as a little bit nosy, they can come across as do gooders. Is that a word? Am I saying that properly? A do gooder, you know, but always trying to get involved. But what they're really trying to do is rectify the situation so they don't have to feel it anymore. Peacemakers. They want to tamp out the fire that they're perceiving. It's none of their business, but they. You can understand why they're going around tamping out fires all the time. Because they're feeling the fire, they're feeling the heat. Heat, so to speak.

Or just completely withdrawing, which is what I see and I hear a lot of them do.

That's the other thing I was just going to say. Thank you. Yes. They become recluses or they can't go anywhere. I can't go anywhere. I Can't go to the restaurant, I can't go to the dance. I can't go. They can't go anywhere. They can't stand to be around anyone. Okay, let's go into the energy vampire really quick here. No one can suck on you. Think of yourself. I'll leave you with an image. Think of it as a ratchet. You know the old fashioned things you would put under the car and you go click, click, click, click, click. And it would lift the car. Okay. If you vibrate, if you resonate normally at a 50 and you go to a party and Aunt Joey is there and she resonates at a 20, when you talk to her, she has the opportunity to ratchet up to you. Or you have the opportunity to ratchet down somewhat to her, if not all the way. What's it gonna be? You're gonna ratchet down to her and join her in commiseration of her dog dying or. I don't.

Yeah, I don't even know. If someone could just raise up their vibration instantly in the conversation. I think it becomes the responsibility of the higher person to go down.

No, no, you stay where you are. You stay where you are. That's where you're happiest. I'm a 50. That's why I'm happy. That's where I live. That's my terrain.

But don't you think if you tell like someone like, so, like tell me about your past lives and they're like so not there for it that you can create more separation with them, that you kind of have to find something that, like, what did you think of the Super Bowl? That they could have a conversation about too, to make them feel comfortable.

Yes, but having conversations that fuel both people is different from ratcheting up or down in your energy level.

But those conversations do bring you down because you're kind of talking about something that you don't care about, then I.

Would say you're going to have to practice caring because. Are they asking that much of you?

It's like, you know when you have to have small talk. Like for me, I feel like small talk drains me. Like I don't want to talk about the weather and this new movie that I. I don't even watch movies, you know, So I.

So then when. So you're telling me though, if you change what. Because I hear what you're saying is that if you don't want to have the small talk that you are going to change it to what you do want to talk about. Right? Okay. And you're telling me when you do change it to what you do want to talk about, they don't want to talk.

Yeah. And it can even create more separation because they think it's so out there.

Okay. In that case, then they walk. What I hear now is I don't want them to walk. I feel guilty that they walked. I'm supposed to entertain them.

Well, it's like, I think that that's what a lot of spiritual people like. That's why they become isolated, because they go to, like, the. Their barbecue or whatever at work and the type of things that they're pondering about. Most people have not even gathered the awareness that it exists. So for them to have that barbecue conversation, they have to bring their vibration down.

If they were the last people on earth with the people at the barbecue, I can assure you the fact that the Joneses wanted to talk about their cacti collection would be the most interesting thing they could ever hear. What we're doing here is, I'm saying we're human. We're human, and we must begin to understand that the diversity was meant to inspire. I once went to a dinner, and the man I was seated by was an engineer. And he proceeded to tell me how he had installed his air conditioning unit. And he told me every single detail about how he measured, how he micro measured. And then he told me how he figured out he could use different size. True story. How he could use different size screws to save money. And then in the end, he ended up saving. I think it was like $2 and some cents by figuring out the screw sizes and switching them over. And I was fascinated with the fact that someone would do that. That's what fascinated me. Not so much the conversation about the air conditioning unit, but the fact that this human, his consciousness, he used it such that he measured screw distances and screw sizes and the pennies on the screw. And he saved, after. I don't know how many hours he put into that calculation, but he saved $2. That's fascinated. Fascinated. My husband fell asleep at the table.

Right. So what I'm hearing you say is sometimes it's not just the conversation, but it's finding why that person would even find that conversation interesting and finding just that that horror movie was so interesting to them to really think about their lives and where they're at. Yeah.

Find them interesting. Find the curiosity. Find your curiosity in everything you do. Because everything, if you don't understand it, everything is curious. It's like, why? Wow. Why?

And then what if someone feels like the Energy vampire. It's not an interesting conversation. It feels like it's draining you. How do you protect yourself? Do you believe in protecting your energy? That's a big buzzword right now.

I never protect myself. I don't even think about it. I'm not stupid. I don't get myself in situations that I don't want to be in. I've never been mugged. I don't intend to be mugged. I've never had bad things happen to me, and I don't intend to have them happen happened to me. If I'm unsure about something, I don't do it. I don't do it. You know those banana boats in Cabo San Lucas that everybody loves riding those banana boats to go over the waves and everything? And so I got on one with my sons and their girlfriends and everybody's. I was excited till it started up, and then I said, oh, fuck, no. And. And they had told me, if you want to get off to do that, cut your neck off, fine, you know? And they had just barely started, and I went, stop, stop, stop. And he was sweet. He stopped the boat immediately. And I got off and I climbed into the boat, and the girls were saying, oh, come on, Tatiana. Come on, you can do this. I go, oh, yeah, I can do it. I don't want to hold on to that damn thing. I don't want to be thinking that I'm going to be thrown off and I'm going to go under the rudders and chopped into a million pieces. No, no. I'll sit in here and I'll watch you guys. See, immediately, no matter how preposterous my fear was, because my fear was getting chopped up into tuna by the propeller, right? And they're saying, that's impossible. I don't care. That's what I'm thinking. That's what I'm feeling. I'm getting in the boat. I don't question my desire to not do something, and I don't let anybody else influence my desire to not do something.

So what I'm hearing you say is, if you can find something interesting in that person, let yourself experience it. And if not, excuse yourself.

Absolutely. Who says you have to talk to them? Yeah, who says? I mean, when my neighbor invited us to dinner and we went and this is what transpired. Well, we didn't go to dinner with them anymore. That's all. But Also, it was 50. 50, because I know for a fact they didn't like what I talked about. They were very uncomfortable about it. I discovered that they were very, very into their church in their belief systems, you know, and I made them very uncomfortable and I asked questions that made them very uncomfortable about their beliefs about God. And so, no, we see each other, we love each other, we hug and kiss when we see each other, but no more dinners.

Yeah. And I think that we feel that guilt of, oh, well, you know, I met up with them, so now we're kind of on the track to become friends and I should still see them. And it's like, what if you just trust that, like, no, that friendship might not have been for me. Imagine how much drama we would have saved ourselves from in our lives if we just trusted. And then they probably felt the same way too. But here we are thinking in our heads that everyone wants to hang out with us when it's definitely not the case.

Oh, I know that people take me. I'm very spontaneous and I know that I can. I can be very quiet, but I know, I know that I'm spontaneous and I know I can be very quiet also. But for the most part, I'm very, very enthusiastic person, let's say. And I know that that energy is very off putting to many people. My enthusiasm, my. They call it. You're so intense. I go, I don't see myself as being intense, but I've heard that enough times to believe that to many people, I'm very intense.

I hear that too. And now I just know, like, you know, there's a lot of people I find are too slow and I can't. I just. If you're just gonna, like, breathe in between every word. I just literally can't be friends with you. Just like you don't want to be friends with me. I talk really fucking fast.

Yes, but that's the beauty. When we can truly say, I love being friends with Susie because Susie is at my pace and I love it. And Tatiana, when she comes to the party, yeah, that's fine. But I like when she stays in her corner with Sahara and they're so damn loud.

Can they turn it down a little? What are they wearing? They're twerking.

What? Yes, yes, exactly. You see, but then if we could be at peace with that, then that's where the harmony is. It's not asking us to change who we are, it's asking us to be at peace with what is. And if it's not peaceful for us, like you mentioned the word distress, if it's distressing to us, then that means that your body's telling you that it's gone. Past uncomfortable. It now feels dangerous. Okay, so when I was sitting on the back of that banana. That sounds funny right now, but when I was sitting on that banana, my body told me distress, and I honored it immediately. I got off the banana.

Yeah. I think that a lot of us were like, if I were brave, I would stay on the banana or I would jump off this cliff. We were just in Hawaii and my husband's like, let's jump off a cliff. I'm like, no part of me wants to do that. He's like, come on, be brave. I'm like, that's like, there's nothing, no reward on the other side. First of all, it's cold. Second of all, like, I don't want to risk my life. And I think it's like, choose your battles. You don't have anything to prove to anyone. Even this idea of like the doing the thing that scares you. Like, do it if it brings you joy, but don't just do it for the sake of doing it. That's just torture.

No, no, you're proving that you're brave. To whom and to and why? Yeah, I'm brave. I'm brave. I had a baby. That's brave. Okay. Or I got pregnant. That's brave. Or what? I helped my son move to San Francisco one time all by myself and he and I and his little girlfriend. That's brave. Okay, in my book. Okay, in my book, brave for you. Jumping off a cliff. Go for it. I'll watch and I'll cheer when you land.

Yeah. It comes down to again, redefining what every word means to us. What freedom, what brave, what happiness, what joy, what distress? What do these words mean to us? Instead of taking the culturally defined definition.

Of it, and that's personal freedom. I don't let other people's understandings of the situation influence my perception of the situation. That banana was perfectly benign to my daughter in laws and my sons. Perfectly benign yellow banana. It was not benign to me. It scared me. I want it off. That's personal freedom. And I didn't feel like I was being a party pooper, you know? No.

Yes. Or self love for you.

Or like an old lady, like, trying to be brave. Oh, I'm not gonna be an old lady. No, I got off the goddamn banana.

Get off the banana. Guys. If you don't like it, leave the banana. This is our takeaway for you. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast podcast and diving so deep with all of us. I've spent the past four hours talking to you today and it's been amazing. Where can listeners connect with you, work with you, learn about you more?

I'm at. How do you guys say? Okay, now you're gonna educate me on here. Okay. Because I always forget because first the natural thing I do is here's my phone number.

Yeah, don't. You don't need to give your phone number. You'll get a lot of calls because.

How are they gonna, how are they gonna reach you?

Have a. Do you have an email that you.

Look, I have. Okay, first we'll start with my email or a website.

Let's start with your website.

Okay. Tatiana ray.com. so that's T A T Y A N a r a e tatianaray.com and.

I'll have that link in the show notes too.

Okay. And then I'm at 1-800-rent a goddess.

What does that mean, rent a goddess?

Well, actually it came about because when I assist people, I realized they would take me off the shelf and we would talk and have a really good session and then for a week or two they put me back on the shelf. I love that. Yeah, well, but I would prefer that they take me off the shelf and throw me in their pocket and carry me with them so that we had some transparency, transformative energy going, not just the energy of being inspired and motivated. So 1-800-rent a goddess really meant don't make it just for now. Let's make this a life changing episode.

Yes, I'm sure it will be. And I believe that your contact box is on your website too, so people can contact you there. You can give out your email too if you.

Oh yes. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, it's all consonants. So it's N, K, D, b l s s@aol.com so it's naked bliss. No vowels. Naked bliss. N, K, D, b l s s@aol.com.

I wish my grandma's email was Naked Bliss.

That would be awesome.

But you actually do remind me of my grandma, grandma on my father's side because she, she had a child when she was like 14. She was in a child marriage. But because of that I think she just doesn't give a fuck what anyone thinks.

Like she's just.

Her husband died when she was 27, so she's been a widow, you know, most of her life. And because of that being a widow, like back in Iran, like you were completely excommunicated. So I think she's lived her whole life just like already being shunned. So she just speaks her truth. She says whatever she wants. And like, she's so funny. Like, we brought her on vacation to the Dominican Republic. She was probably 88 years old at the time. She comes out in lingerie and is walking around the pool. We're like, grandma, you have to wear a bathing suit. She's like, I want to wear lingerie and just no fucks given. Like a boss.

I love that. Yes, yes. No. You get to a point, it's not that we've suffered a lot, but you get to a point where you realize that the ups and the downs that you have had just enhanced. They gave you more stories. You know, life should be a scrapbook. Make it a scrapbook. Don't make it an obituary. Make life a scrapbook. Love that.

Well, thank you again so much for sharing.

Thank you and goodbye little peeps. I love you all. I just could like squish you, you know, like when something's so delicious you just want to pop it. That's how I feel. I feel. Thank you so much for listening and thank you for inviting me on.

Thank you, thank you.

Love you. Bye Bye.

Zam girl Tatiana Ray spits that fire. She is fierce, she is bold. She is not afraid of being out there, but really her out there is really being in here, really being in her heart and in her truth. And we are just so not used to that in our society that that feels confronting even though she's just being herself. So loved that you conversation with her. She is such a powerhouse. Be sure to check her out. And we have conversations on topics like this. Being authentic, stepping into your truth in Rose Gold Goddesses. This entire month of June, we are going to be working with an archetype which I won't list here. We'll, we'll share it with you in Rose Gold Goddesses about stepping into your fullest expression, your joy, your fun, your ease, your flow, and tapping into some of the past, past lives that you may have that you're not fully stepping into that are kind of like swimming around in your subconscious waiting for you to actualize them. So that's what's happening this month in Rose Gold Goddesses. It is going to be juicy, full power lit train and I invite you to hop on it. So if you are interested in joining a community of over 2000 spiritual soul sisters who listen to this podcast, who love to meditate and pull cards as much as they love to twerk and release their fullest expression, this month I also have a new workshop in Rose Gold Goddesses called Healing and Embodiment. Through dance. So if you are looking to fully express yourself, your body, your temple is your ultimate tool. So I'll be sharing with you practices different isolations that you can do why we are so disconnected to our bodies and really guiding you back home so you can dance and be free and express and actually heal trauma and fully embody your dharma through dance. So this is all available for you. Dozens of my programs, my Discover your Dharma talks that I've done, my Awaken youn Powers masterclass with Shaman Durek, all of the previous month's goddess circles from Kali Ma transformation to to Lakshmi Abundance to Saraswati creativity to Yamaya flow to Bridget reemergence. The list goes on. All of this, literally hundreds of hours of content and our very own app with this epic community weekly live workshops. Everything is there for you in Rose Gold Goddesses. So I invite you to join us. The link is rosegoldgoddesses.com the link is in the show notes and I am soul excited excited to meet you inside. If you loved this episode I would love to send you a free gift which is the first half of my unreleased book Eat Right for your mind body type. This is a different book than Eat Feel Fresh, my first book ever which is not released anywhere and I am gifting it exclusively to those who leave a review of my podcast in the itunes store. So all you gotta do is head over to itunes where you may be listening to this podcast and leave a review. Take a screenshot that you've left it and email it over to me@saharaetfeelfresh.com again that's Sahara S A H A R aattfeelfresh.com and I will send you back the first half of my unreleased book Eat Right for your mind body Type which goes all into Ayurveda, doshas, plant based nutrition, body types, all of the things in a really fun, fun and engaging way. So this is my gift to you for free for supporting the podcast. Every single review I personally read. It really helps the podcast be listened to by more people so we can raise the vibration of the planet together and I am so grateful to have you on this journey. Thank you so much for listening and I'll see you on the next episode. Namaste.