334: Instagram Growth Strategies with Bossbabe’s Natalie Ellis + Danielle Canty

Namaste, it's Sahara Rose. And welcome back to the Highest self podcast, a place where we discuss what makes you your soul's highest evolvement. If it's your first time listening, welcome. I'm so excited to have you here. I am on a sacred mission to help people remember their dharmas, their souls, purposes, the big reason why they are here. And leading up to my new book, discover Your Dharma, out January 5, I am interviewing people all about their dharmas, different pathways to get there, and ways to support you into really taking your message, your vision, your why out there to the world to be experienced. And social media has been a huge part of my career. I mean, I wouldn't be here sharing with you via a social platform, which is even podcasting, if it weren't for the invention of these tools and these methodologies for us to freely spread information. So as annoying as social media can be, sometimes as addictive as it can be, as much as it can feel like a time sucker, trust me, I have felt like all of those things as well. It also gives us the freedom to share our voice and to be heard and to make a difference in the world. And back in the day there were like six TV channels and there were, you know, publicists and all of these things you had to cross and be and represent to even be on them. And they wouldn't let you talk to outside of the lines or say something to paradigm shifting because they wanted to control the narrative. And you know, even these six channels are probably owned by one to two people. And now because of social media, each of us is our own Oprah, each of us is our own Dr. Phil Mori, whatever you were watching when you were a kid, but a high vibe version of that, because we don't have to be like you are not the father to get those views. We can talk about what it is that sets our souls on fire, what makes us feel alive, what we want to share with the world. And the beauty of that is that now you don't have to be chosen by anyone. You don't have to fit the media narrative to be given a microphone. You can just go buy your own microphone and start talking. That's what I did on this podcast and that's what so many hundreds of thousands of people are doing all around the world. However, growing on social media, learning social media, it is a never ending journey and I am still very much learning despite being on social media since it was created, blogging for almost 11 years now, which is so crazy to think that eat, feel Fresh is over a decade old and going through so many, you know, shifts. There was no Instagram. Then Instagram was created, and that kind of became your new blog. And then from Instagram becoming your blog, it shifted to stories, and now there are reels. And TikTok came in, and that's what made the reels. And people are doing audio, and now they're doing video. And, you know, it can definitely feel overwhelming to try to understand how the algorithm works, what kind of content to post, how to get things to go viral, how to turn those people into your customers. However, it is a journey worth taking if you are someone that has a message to share, because it is providing us with the best opportunity in human history to get our voices out there. And for so many of us, I have these nine Dharma archetypes. These nine archetypes related to your soul's purpose, which I outline in my book, discover your Dharma. But if you are someone who is a visionary, so the visionary is someone that has a message, someone that is here to bridge the new paradigm, here to speak about the way that things can be raising consciousness. So I'm very much of the visionary archetype. Many guests on this podcast have been visionaries or teacher, which is my secondary archetype. If you have something that you want to teach, whether it is knitting or entrepreneurship or gardening or yoga or anything else, if you are an artist and you want to get your voice out there, you want to get your paintings or your song out there, if you are an entertainer and you want to share your comedy or your POVs, which are styles of improv that are really trending right now on TikTok, that people perform essentially these like 10 to 15 second long clips and create whole series based on them. And they're pretty entertaining, actually. So all of these different archetypes can use social media to further spread your voice out there. And I think what happens is a lot of people feel like, well, I'm too late. Like, I should have done it right when Instagram started, and now I'm too late, so I'm never gonna be able to figure this out, so I might as well not try.

But.

But every day that you're not trying is another day that you're gonna feel further behind. And I've always known that every time I have felt like I'm already too late or falling behind, I know deep in my soul I'm gonna do it eventually. But it's just a matter of, am I. How long is it gonna take for me to talk myself into it. You know, even with starting this podcast, I remember thinking, oh, you know, who am I to start a podcast? Someone else already has. You know, podcasts, they're kind of talking about spirituality. There's no space for me to do it. I'm too far behind. And this was three and a half years ago. Well, imagine if I had listene then, you know, this and over 300 episodes would not be out. So no matter if you are on social media, you're already doing the thing and you love to learn more tips or you're very new. This episode is gonna have so much for you. And I always, always, always on highest health podcasts bring people who really embody their message, people who are in not only the best in their field, but like walk their talk. And I bring always my own friends. See, like you guys are hearing my own inner circle on here. And Natalie Ellis and Danielle Canty of Boss Babe are people. I met these girls in la. I met Natalie, like, I want to say three years ago or something. She actually, when I first met her, she's like, I took your Ayurveda course, which was so cute. And we became friends and, you know, we're both Capricorns and started to share business stuff. And then her business partner Danielle moved over from the UK and it has been so awesome just learning from these girls, hanging out with them, and they were visiting down in Florida, so they came over and we decided to hop on a podcast and share more about everything social media related, from marketing to how to understand what's trending right now in the algorithm and how to turn also those audience members into clients or customers. Because really that's the whole point of it. It's not about just having a lot of followers in the number. It's about actually changing more lives. And, you know, whether you're doing that through working with people one on one or through online programs or you have a product, it's really important to also know how to take that conversation off social media too. So we talk about all of these things and you know, I'm someone that definitely researches a lot social media and I came with my best questions of things that I really wanted to learn. Like, I've been wondering a lot about just like analytics, about the reels and, you know, what's working right now and different things I've seen trending. And I'm someone who literally lives on Instagram. Sometimes I'm like, oh my God, this is, this is a commitment. But that's the commitment it takes to get your message out there. So I'm always excited to learn and Natalie and Danielle had such incredible lessons, incredible tips. You know these are people who teach Instagram for a living and I'm also super excited because their iga, the Instagram growth accelerator program that they have, which is the gold standard, it is the most like intensive and all encompassing Instagram course out there. So they're actually kindly offering a hundred dollars off for high self podcast listeners, which is an offer they don't have anywhere else. So I have that link in my show notes. It's bossbabe.com Sahara and you can use code SAHARA100 for a hundred dollars off and I'll share that again in the show notes and at the of the episode. But if you're not familiar with Boss Babe, they are seriously a one of a kind company. They are helping females get online, make money doing what they do best, whether it is courses or content or coaching or whatever else. They really empower women to make it, to be financially independent and to be successful and do it with fun and pizzazz and love and heart. So I love love love learning from them and I'm so so excited to share this episode with you today. So without further ado, let's welcome Natalie and Danielle from Boss Babe to the Highest Self podcast. And before we get started, I'd love to share with you this special offer. Are you ready to discover your Dharma, your soul's purpose, the big reason why you are here? Well, if so, then I invite you to pre order my new book Discover your Dharma A Vedic guide to discovering your purpose. Purpose this book has my true story for the very first time of how I began and created this lifestyle where I am being able to be me full time and the many obstacles and roadblocks I overcame with my family members with limiting beliefs, doubts, fears and how I overcame them to really be able to share my gifts with this planet. Unapologetically, this book has everything you need to know for discovering and also embodying your Dharma, how to take action on it, how to find yourself in the nine Dharma archetypes, and then create a Dharma blueprint for yourself to put your Dharma into action. I share about everything from what to do if you're confused, if you have a lot of different things you like to do, to what if you aren't sure how to take action and everything in between. I also have incredible bonuses including meditations, courses and gifts available for you when you pre order the book and submit your receipt@iamsaharose.com dharma so if you're interested in diving into the book and learning more, check it out. The link is in the bio and I also have my Dharma archetype quiz that is now available that will help you understand which of the nine Dharma archetypes you are so you can get started in understanding yours. I email you tons of great information from the book so you can begin on your dharma journey and as soon as possible. So head over to I am Sahara rose.com Dharma the link is in the show notes and I'm so excited to share this book with you. Welcome, Natalie and Danielle to the Highest Self podcast. It's so great to have you guys here.

Thank you for having us.

I am so excited.

Yay. So the first question I'd love to ask you is, what makes you your highest self?

For me, stillness. It's everything. And when I tap into stillness or lean more into stillness, I lean more into my higher self and it changes everything.

Oh, I love that. I think mine's like tapping into my heart and really listening to love. Like, recently I've kind of been on a journey and really just understanding like one of my kind of core values and something that I realign with is just like leading with love. Like making decisions from a place of love and abundance, I think has been like, really powerful for me.

Mm. I love it. Well, you two are just two powerful manifesters. And what I love about what you guys do is you just take these huge visions that you have for yourself and like launch it into the most massive action. And I think it's so inspirational, especially for so many people who listen to this podcast who have incredible ideas. They're spiritual, they're heart centered, but they don't know exactly how it is to take action on their dreams. They might feel guilt or shame or just like overwhelm with all of the steps. And I feel like you guys are just too like powerful boss babe leaders who are just like, I'm going to make this shit happen and go and do it. So can you just like briefly share a little bit about how you created this multiple seven figure female inspiring business?

Yeah, and it's so interesting because we still feel that overwhelmed sometimes and we still get paralyzed by the idea of taking action into something where we might not have experience in, or it's scary or it's. It's big, it's lofty. And the biggest thing with anything is just putting one foot in front of the other. And I think in the beginning of your business journey, it can be really tempting to not start Taking action until you're clear on your vision. Like, we hear this all the time. Let's get clear on the big vision. Let's understand where we're going. But often you don't understand why you're going until you take action. And it's taking action that gives you clarity and helps you. Once you take action and you move towards something, opportunities come your way very naturally and you get the chance to say, yep, that one's for me. No, that one's not for me. And by putting that one foot in front the other, that really happens. And it's very similar with Danielle and I. Our journey was we had this mission and it was, let's build the company we wish we knew existed. So we were both female entrepreneurs. We were in our own different industries, own silos, and we were incredibly lonely and incredibly ambitious. And we were like, what would it look like to solve that problem of loneliness by building a community of women who all are really unapologetically ambitious and bring in amazing teachers to be able to show. Show us the way. Because you can only get so far googling your way through business. And that's really where it started. And it was a lot of getting aligned, putting one foot in front of the other. And the amount of times something just landed in our laps and we were like, yes, actually this sounds like a great idea. And it wasn't in the master plan, even though it might have looked like it. And I just want everyone to know that, that it is okay not to always know the exact place you're going. I completely agree.

And I also think it's okay to recognize that, that it's normal to have self doubt. It's like normal to have imposter syndrome. It's normal to feel paralysis at times. That is a normal feeling. But it's how you overcome that and how you don't just sit in that and let that paralyze you, but recognize, okay, well, first of all, I'm not going to beat myself up for having this feeling like it is absolutely normal. But what are the tools and what are the resources? Who can I go to to help me support for, like, moving through that? Because Natalie's right. You don't necessarily know every single step that you're going to take in your journey. The most important thing is that you just take that, that first step. And when you take that first step, it gives you that confidence and it gives you that ability to move forwards and then to understand, okay, well, now I've taken this one step. Now I can Take the second step. I think people get really, really overwhelmed and that self doubt and that imposter syndrome really sets in when they feel like they need to know every single step ahead of them. So you've got like 10 steps ahead and you need to know exactly where you're putting each foot, and you just don't. And I think that's a really important thing that Natalie and I really learned to let go of.

I love that so much. And I think that oftentimes we want, like that full game plan. We want the whole business plan. We want to know, like the step by step and like the way that our school system has taught us too, is like, know all of the steps, make sure you're clear, and then take action. So we're kind of like trained to behave this way. And it's just not what works in real life, and it's definitely not what works in entrepreneurship. Because by the time you even try to figure it out, it's probably gonna have changed by then too, especially with the online space, it's moving so fast. So it's really just, just, yeah, taking action, messy action, figuring it out. And I think where a lot of people feel overwhelmed and stuck is feeling like, I might be too late. Like, I missed the Instagram train, I missed the podcast train. I'm too late, I'm too late. So what would you say to someone who maybe, like, they have a small Instagram, they haven't really gone full blast, or they haven't really launched a podcast, like, is it too late now? Like, how should they start taking action towards that?

So I love this question. And for anyone listening, every day that you take, you're making yourself later and later. So that's just one big reminder. And let's talk about, about the beginning of Instagram, because, yes, it was a lot easier to grow an account when Instagram started. I want to be completely transparent about that. And a lot of people that started their accounts very early on, their audience isn't so engaged anymore. It doesn't mean that just because you started 10 years ago, your audience have grown with you and stuck with you. What often happens is your audience has gotten stagnant because you've changed. What you're about has changed. They've changed.

So true.

And so. So some people that started 10 years ago, they're thriving, and some people aren't necessarily. So there's pros and cons to both. Right now, I think is a better time than ever to be getting your business on Instagram, to be launching the Podcast, because you've got a tried and tested blueprint that already exists. You know what to do. You know that your audience are there. You know, a few years ago, not everyone was on Instagram, not the audience you're trying to attract was there. Whereas now, you know, they're there. And now more than ever, it's really easy to get clear on who you're attracting, what you're putting out in the world, and then find an audience to build from that. I really don't think it's too late, and I don't think Instagram or social media for that matter is going anywhere. And it's that idea of I'm too late that's going to make you late with podcasting. I mean, if you look at the listenership of podcasting compared to the users on Facebook, it is still so small. That's gotta catch up. And so if you get in now and you're consistent and you hit that wave, you're going to be looking back in a few years time like, yeah, I'm so glad I got in there. I got in there early because it's only going to continue to grow.

Yeah, I think it's about challenging that mindset as well. Like a lot of us, a lot of people can operate in a scarcity mindset, like, oh, I'm too late, or there's too many people on, or there's too many people selling this, there's too many of that. But, you know, it's really understanding, like actually how to switch that mindset into abundance and thinking, okay, there is room for me. And hey, do you know what? Just like Natalie said, this platform is thriving. Like, if we think about, you know, when we first started on social media and remember MySpace, was it Bebo or something like these?

Tom?

Yeah, the thing with Instagram and podcasts is like, you know, they're here to stay. And I think that's like really powerful and a lot of comfort in that. And also, just like Natalie said, like looking at what the blueprints are out there, like, who, who do you admire and who do you want to take inspiration from? I'm not saying copy, but take inspiration from, to look at those blueprints, to understand what works and to make it work for you. And I think, you know, when you change that mindset around, going, okay, right, you know, now I'm here. Like, if we, if you think about, and you look at these big companies, they'll always wait for the little companies to like pave the way into a market, into a new Market. And so really just kind of like looking. Well, actually, this really works for the type of thing that I want to do, or the type of thing I want to speak about, or the type of thing I want to sell. And when you really change that mindset versus scarcity and go, okay, well, this is obviously working, let me lean into this and let me be the best person, let me bring my touch and my spin, then I think that's when it's really powerful.

Yeah. And also, whichever social media you get on, whichever platform you kick off, whether it's a YouTube channel, a podcast, Instagram, what's really important to remember is you don't own any of these platforms and you don't own the audience on the platform. So whilst we are massive advocates of social media, obviously our entire business has been built off of Instagram. We're also advocates of owning your real estate. So that means if you are starting, you know, to put yourself out there, think about what you're building behind that. Is it an email list or is it a text messaging list? How are you really securing yourself against the idea that, that the algorithm might change one day, which it might, or Instagram goes dark for a couple of days, which has happened. And if you're solely reliant on social media for business and for sales, I think that's where it gets a little bit scary. So for anyone listening who hasn't maybe started an email list, that's where I'd really recommend starting. Then using everything else to power the email list or a text messaging list so that you've got that direct line to your ideal clients and you own that real estate.

Okay, so I want to ask you, email or text message, what should people be focusing on building right now?

So I'm a big fan of email because I think that storytelling in business is really, really important. And I think right now the text messaging apps are still a little bit behind when it comes to that. You can't really send anything that's sufficiently valuable. You can't send long form, you can't send too long videos. However, I do think that's going to change. And I think when that changes, if you have have numbers, I think you'll be in a really powerful position. I don't think email's dead and I don't think email's gonna die for a really long time. And there's power in owning emails. You know, it's not necessarily just having an email list, but if you have someone's email, you can plug that into Facebook and you can show up on their feed using ads and that gets a bit more complicated. But there's a lot more to it than just an email list. But I don't think email's going anywhere. So I would generally for anyone starting off, I would say connect, collect emails. Because you can build that storytelling relationship with your audience and optionally take their number. So you can put it as an optional box they can put their number in, or they don't. But starting to build that up. Even if you don't action it. I think in a couple of years time, you'll be glad you did that.

Yeah, I think right now text messages are best used as like a little nudge now and again. I think they're very. It can be very intrusive. And so just to kind of.

I end up just like unsubscribing to them all. But it is, you know, 90% open rate.

Yeah, exactly. So I think like those touch for like big important things and those accents and like draw attention to something specific is really, really useful. But I agree with Natalie, like the long form and the rapport that you can build depending on like what you want to be speaking about and the message that you want to get over email is so powerful that. Because you can really tell your story in an email, which you just can't do in a text message right now.

Absolutely. So I want to talk about Instagram and what is working, because I know so many people are like, this algorithm, it screwed me over. It's not working, it's not showing my posts, I've been shadow banned. And then you hear all these rumors about the algorithm, et cetera. So right now, in your perspective, what.

Is working right now, reels are working so incredibly well. And they're not just so when Instagram or Facebook releases any new feature. So let's say reels. There's probably only a team of 10 people at Facebook working on reels. Even though it's this massive product. And to be able to get the budget to actually expand their team, they need to be showing product market fit, which means they're going to give a lot more visibility to reels on Instagram so that people will start using it more, they'll get that traction, they can build a team. So what's really interesting is reels has actually obviously replaced so many feed posts in the feed, but it's also replaced the big square on your explore page. So if no one knows what that is, if you kind of click, it's normally like a magnifying glass. It Might be different on people's accounts, but you click that on your Instagram app and you'll see the Explore page, which is videos and photos that are syndicated to you that the algorithm thinks you're gonna like. Now there's a massive square and that's been taken over by reels, which is massive real estate. So right now, if you aren't making reels in your business, I really, really recommend starting because you're going to reach so many more people than a feed, post or stories right now. So that's the first thing. Second thing is I don't buy into a lot of the shadow banning.

And when you say reels, should they be doing only reels? Like every post should be a reel.

Now I don't think every post should be a real, but I would say like every three to four posts should be reel. So you want to be using your feed post posts for kind of long form value, for building rapport, for quick questions, engagement, aesthetic, things like that. And then, you know, if you have lots of time on your hands, you can do more reels. But generally reels are really good. Every three to four posts can people.

Like on TikTok you can search by sound. Can they do that on a reel? Like search a trending sound and what's coming up for them?

I don't know. I don't think so. Yes, I know that a lot of people are just kind of exporting from TikTok Instagram right now. So it's coming up a lot of original audio.

So what I've learned about that. So I had this reel that got like selected by Instagram as the featured reel. It got 3 million views, this reel. It was one of my so not spiritual videos that saw and I just like joking around and what I learned because then they called me after I had like a phone call and they said that if it had the TikTok watermark on, on there, they wouldn't have selected it to be one of those featured reels. So it's good to know because a lot of people, including myself, were just uploading straight from TikTok where they don't want that. They want it to be something that you either did on your camera or did it directly into reels. So that's like an interesting thing for all you TikTokers to know.

And did you notice a big spike in followers from that reel?

Honestly, I didn't, surprisingly. Like, I. A lot of them thought I was being serious. Like they didn't realize it was a joke because it was all new people. So I feel like I went up maybe like 1 or 2,000 people, but for like 3 million people viewing something, it, it was interesting because you can't see the stats on how many people followed you because of with the reels like that algorithm, the analytics is not there yet on the reels. So I don't know, maybe a lot of people unfollowed me too and then followed me. That it kind of balanced it out. I'm not really sure.

Yeah, that's really interesting. I know it's so annoying not being able to see analytics right now, but it's all about when you're putting your content out there. Just thinking about the cadence. Like, okay, I'm going to put a value based post, I'm going to put a viral post out there so I can build followers. I'm going to put a reel out there because I'm gonna. What happens with reels is you're gonna reach so much more of your audience than you would have before with a feed post. And once you engage that audience, they're more likely to see your posts generally. So if your real engagement goes up, your general engagement goes up, and then just to finish what's working right now, the same thing that has always been working. Like I was saying, I don't buy into shadow banning. I think, well, yes, some hashtags are absolutely banned and will black out and if you use them, your posts won't be shared. If you're using bots and spammy accounts, you're probably going to be downranked. However, I really don't buy into Instagram just shadow banning accounts generally. If you're sharing things that they are against, which is a whole different topic and something I totally don't agree with, then your engagement will go down if your content is around that. But I don't think people's accounts generally are being shadowbanned too much. But what does happen is if you put out a piece of content that Instagram doesn't agree with, it will show that piece of content to a really small amount of your audience and that will then just keep happening over and over and over again and you get stuck in that loop until you boost that engagement. So I always prioritize msi, which means meaningful social interaction. It's the thing that the Instagram algorithm is built on and it's about meaningfully, socially interacting with your audience. Asking questions, replying, instigating conversations, getting people to vote, getting people to answer, getting people to get curious about your content. That's the way to bring an account that might be be, you know, really reduce engagement, bring it back and revive it, and flag to Instagram. Hey, my audience is actually really engaged and they are interested in my content. You know, we have a program called IGA where we have so many people in there, and the amount of times I've had people come in there with barely any engagement, and we've revived their account and it's really worked. And it does work, and it continues to work. Yeah.

And I just want to, like, highlight something we've already mentioned is about analytics. So for us, it's really important whenever we're doing anything to really analyze something. So we always talk about, like, ask, listen, and learn. And so there's no point just kind of doing things aimlessly and not really taking on that feedback as to what is actually happening, what is actually working and what isn't. And so, like, for us, we're constantly looking at the analytics in there. Okay, so if we post this, what was the engagement like? Did people interact with it or not? How many followers did we get from it? What was the reach like? And really then going, okay, well, actually, people really resonated with this piece of content, and it feels good for us to put more pieces of content out like this. Or actually, do you know what? This piece of content didn't work.

Why?

Let's talk about that. Let's analyze that. And so I think whenever you're doing anything that you want to improve in life, you have to reflect on it and you have to look back on it, whether it's business, whether it's Instagram, anything. Like, you have to be willing to kind of, you know, listen and learn from what you've already put out there. So I think that's just a really important point for anyone who wants to be, like, moving the needle forwards.

And this has been such a huge lesson for me because I'm someone who's like, oh, I want to create this thing and just, like, kind of, like, do it and put it out there and then, like, have my next idea. And it's like, we'll actually look at the analytics, look at what's working. Something I might like or might not like, it might actually be really resonating with people right now. So to really look at that feedback, I think where a lot of people get stuck is like, we see the captions like, type yes if you agree. And people are like, oh, like, who's going to type yes? Or like, is that corny? What do you think about doing stuff.

Like that, Yeah, I think it can be really corny. Like I always say to my team, let's never ask pointless questions.

Right?

Let's ask questions that we really want to know the answer to. Or let's create content where people can tag people and make their decision day, or they can share it to their feed and say something that they might not feel comfortable saying themselves. You can ask really interesting questions, though. So, for example, I'm in Miami this weekend. Like, what are your favorite Miami recommendations? How can you contextualize the ask? Or, hey, I'm thinking about putting together this training. If I did, what are the things you'd want me to cover? Or I'm thinking about putting this training together. Is this something you're even interested in?

Would you put that in a caption or would you put that in like a Q and a box and have people send it to you on the dm?

So that's actually a really good question I would put into the caption in certain situations, if I really. If I was putting out a post that wasn't necessarily a viral kind of post that I knew wasn't going to get massive, like, engagement, I'd probably put a question in there to really get the comment engagement. But in stories, I always do a mix of the comment box and DMs, because you'll notice a correlation between your DMs blowing up and the amount of story views you get. And you don't necessarily see that as much with the Q and A box. So I'll really play with it. I'll do a Q and a box if I want to know, like, a specific thing, like, hey, I'm in Miami. What are your recommendations? But I'll say, hey, I'm thinking of creating this spreadsheet bundle. Are you interested? Let me know. And I know that the response is just a simple yes, and I'll get them to DM me.

So you want them to DM you?

Interesting. Yeah. Having people DM you and respond to stories is a really, if not the best way to get your story engagement.

Good to know, because I'm never doing that. So you guys have so much knowledge on this stuff. So I think another place that people get stuck is like, we've seen this kind of meme going around saying that now the algorithm favors, like, saving the post, and then it's like commenting. Can you share what this order is and is it true? First of all?

Yeah. I mean, I've not seen anyone credible sharing this. What happens on Instagram is it's Such an echo chamber. One thing gets shared and then it goes beyond. Saving is actually a really powerful tool because what happens on your Instagram account is you have a ton of lurkers. And it's actually really funny because it's probably the lurkers that are very likely to buy from you. Those are the kind of people that are sitting on the fence. They're not the ones to type yes into the box if they agree, and they might not want to give you that opinion, but they do follow. They do like to see your posts. And by them saving it, you continue to show up in their feed and things like that. And save saving tells Instagram that it's a really good post, it's a really valuable post. And I've experimented with creating checklists and putting before that in capital letters. Save this post and then I'll explain the checklist. Those go viral so quickly. So I think it's really powerful. But I wouldn't necessarily say it's really about ranking, because at the end of the day, a good piece of content's a good piece of content, and people are going to engage with it in different ways. If it's a post that they want to come back to and reflect on, or they want to take inspo from them or likely to save. If it's a piece of content that they want to share with someone else or their audience, they might hit the share button. If it's a piece of content that they want to tag people in so they see it, or they actually want to respond to you and give you some feedback, then they're going to comment. If it's a really pretty picture, they might just want to like it. And as long as you are getting that engagement, then it's powerful. So what generally happens is you post a post and Instagram will show it to a certain percentage of your audience. And if they engage with it meaningfully doing any of those things, Instagram will then show it to another, bigger percentage of your audience. And that's how viral kicks in. Then you'll hit the Explore page and it kind of goes from there. And so any meaningful interaction is going to help with that.

So is it like an order of like, save or Send to Friend vs Comment vs Like, or are these all sort of just equal?

They're all pretty equal.

Okay.

We test all the time, and there's no real difference that we see in insights based on whether we tell people to save or like or. Or comment or share. As long as they're engaging with it, that's the thing you really want to.

Aim for, the key to any content creation is making sure that you create value. Right? Like, what are you actually bringing to somebody's day? Like, why are they actually reading it? Why are they actually engaging it? And I think that's something that a lot of people, you know, when they first start creating content, they can do it from a very selfish perspective. Like, okay, like, what am I getting out from this? But really it should be like, what am I giving people from this? Like, you know, you just spoke about like several pieces like, you know, why people might, like why people might comment, comment, why people might save. I think really just understanding and putting yourself in your like, viewers shoes is just really powerful. And we always speak about like, you know, creating value is like the four E's. So we talk about emotion. So it's like, okay, you want to be trying to evoke some emotion via the content that you're creating. And if you're not creating emotion, maybe you want to be hitting the education. So you want to be educating them, you want to be teaching them something. Like at the end of the day, they need to be leaving with like, okay, I've learned this, or I'm feeling motivated by this, or I'm feeling positive by this. You want them to have like a post reaction to the value that you're bringing, the content that you're producing. The third one is entertainment. So okay, how are you entertaining them? Like, why are they engaging it? Why are they reading it? Why are they watching that video? Like, what is it about them? What is it about that content that's hooking them in? And then lastly, like the fourth E that we work on, which is the one that most people forget is like the enemy. So that's another one that really engages people. So it might be like, okay, like we, we stand for this.

Or like popular opinion.

Yeah. Or like, and it doesn't even, it doesn't have to be rude. It doesn' have to be anything like that. You know, for us, like, as we started growing, like, we were like, we stood for being like unapologetically ambitious. We really stood that and we made like enemies around, like, you know, okay, we want to make sure, like, we have more women in the boardroom. We want to stand up against these statistics. Like, we made sure that we had this like, common denominator running through that. And so I really think, like, if you can each time aim for one of those E's, then that's really, really gonna help you get that engagement in those posts.

I love that. And this is something you guys talk a lot about in iga, which we'll talk more about. So let's think about. Can we think about four pieces of content for people? So let's say we have like a lot of people listening and they're like health coaches, life coaches, spiritual coaches, or want to be. So, like, what are like four kind of content ideas they could come up with using these four E's?

So well, we teach it in a framework first. So we teach the three things that we teach is you want to always be posting content that fits into three buckets. It's either content that helps you grow, content that helps you build your brand, or content that helps you to convert. And there are four E's really fit into this. So regardless of which content bucket you choose, you want to really put that in. So content to build your brand is not content that's selling. It's not content that's going to go viral, but it might be something that is telling a personal story of yours. And there's no call to action at the end. It's a vulnerability to be vulnerable. It's telling your story or it's sharing a bit of your lifestyle, but behind the scenes it's maybe sharing your accreditations, things like that. So it's really building your brand, who you are all.

So you shouldn't do a call to action at the end of those.

I don't think you should do a call to action at the end of every story, post or vulnerable post because I think it really conditions your audience to expect that and they feel like you're halfway through.

They kind of check out.

Yeah, yeah. And they're like, are they being vulnerable to actually tell me a story and tell me about their life or are they doing it because they're trying to sell me? And it's really not nice to see someone's story and see why they're doing what they're doing and you know where they come from without feeling hard sold at the end to just be like, oh, that's actually a closed loop on its own. Yeah, I really align with her and her values or them and their values, what they're doing. So that's one piece. Content to convert is when you're directly trying to get the sale. So it's maybe that long form post with a call to action at the end. It's driving people towards a specific call to action. Whether it's, you know, downloading a freebie, DMing you, working with you, buying your course. It's very much to sell.

Then would you put your course like title and price on the caption or you would more do that on an email or something?

Both, I would do both and I would test. So it really depends on kind of the size of your audience and what your goals are. So I generally say I'm in a launch, I, I would prefer to push people to a webinar where we can get on there and we can really deliver value. Then we sell the course at the end, then say that's the beginning of the launch and we've got like a week and a half left. Then I would show up on social and do a lot more direct calls to action. But I have a really big audience and so what I might do, what Danielle might do and what another influencer might do, what you might do is very different to what someone who's starting out might do. And if I was starting out, I probably wouldn't do that. I would structure my captions a little bit differently. I would create a lot more intimacy. I'd get DMs, I'd have conversations on the phone. I'd push people to webinar. Like I wouldn't just be saying here's the program, here's the price, join now. And so that's also just whenever any for anyone that's listening, really discern the information you're getting. Because all of us have such different perspectives because we have a following, we.

Have an established and I think intimacy is actually what a lot of of people want right now.

I really agree more, more than ever.

People are wanting one on one. People are wanting someone to listen. So I think a lot of people are like oh I wish I could just have this like evergreen chorus so I could just like live the four hour work week. And you know, that's not what a lot of people need right now.

I agree.

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And then the third bit, when you're talking about content to grow, that's your viral post. That's content that's going to get shared, going to get commented on, and it's actually going to bring in followers. So when we talk about four pieces of content that someone could share, let's say one of them is a personal story and you could share a picture of yourself from five years ago and talk about where you are, are at and really evoke that emotional peace.

I love the before and afters. Every time I see them, I, yeah, it really works.

And it all goes back to that intimacy piece. People feel like they have that connection with you. They want to know that you've been where they are. You know, you didn't just come out of the womb a boss and, like, have all this handed to you. Like, they want to see that journey and hear about it even.

Just like I always like seeing when people are like, hey, I'm reintroducing myself, even someone I've been following for years because you forget, like, you or you like to hear how, what are people up to, etc. But I think we like, I know for myself, I'm like, oh, my audience knows me and they listen to all my podcasts. They know everything about me. That's not true. Like, half of them probably have never even heard my podcast before. So I'm assuming they must already know everything about me. How often would you say we should reintroduce ourselves to our audience?

If you're in a growth phase, once a month? Like, if you're growing a lot, if you're growing slower, I would say once every three months. And it can be a reintroduction. It could be 10 facts about me. You can really just make it fun. But I agree.

I think another thing that's just really important about that is, like, we are speaking about values and what you're bringing, but it's being consistent in your messaging. So even if it's not necessarily like, you're introducing yourself like people Kind of want to expect a certain like story from you or a piece of content from you or like, you know, if I was all of a sudden one day start talking about, oh yeah, like, you know, all of a sudden I'm speaking about music and I've never ever spoken about music before. And I'd be like, oh, like I might be getting to know me a little bit more. It might be a bit out of the blue. And I think just really kind of like if you're growing and you're trying to be build rapport, being consistent around like your pillars and what you show up and talk about is really, really powerful to grow and engage and create that intimacy. And so I think that's really understand that. And the other point that I wanted to make around like intimacy. And you know, for me I was never like on social media all that much. It was never something that I was like, oh my goodness, I love posting on social media outside of Boss Baby. But like my personal account, like it was never something I really prioritized or lent into. And I think for a lot of people, like you do get in that paralysis piece. And I'm like, oh, I didn't know what to say. Like, o, who cares? Like what are they going to be interested in anything that I have? And so for me it's just really kind of understanding like actually to speak on social media in a way that you would speak to normal people. Natalie mentioned it earlier, like, don't just say drop a yes below. Like it says that in real life.

You don't yes if you agree. I like the sun.

Literally I was laughing. I was packing to come here to Miami and I was like, oh, this is so funny. I'm such a last minute packer. Like I literally night before, that's me, I say, I wonder how many people like pack early and pack like. And so I just asked on Instagram and the amount of conversations that have like blossomed from that because it's an actual question that I would ask you. Yes, I was sat next to yourself. I'm like, oh yeah. You know, And I think that's what a lot of people lose touch with. They sometimes think that, you know, yes, it is different but it's not too far differently. You do need to be a normal person who can have normal communication on social media.

100 I've noticed that when my stories are just like, I'm moving in and it's like, here's I'm like, those are like my highest stories. And when it's like the perfect graphics that we spend all this time to make and they're so curated and it's like about whatever. Those don't do well at all because people are just noticing like, oh, that feels too like polished for me.

Yeah, we want real yeah versus all. Yeah.

So a post that you might put up to hit the educational. So what I mentioned before around emotion, that was really building your brand. You're telling a story. There's no call to action. You're really building, building that emotion in your audience. You're building your brand education. I would probably pair either with building your brand or with converting. So it can really play into both. So an education, a post that really sparks education could be a more professional picture of you while you're talking about something that solves a problem for someone else. Or it's a photo that your audience can see themselves in. So let's say you're a health coach. It might be you doing your morning routine and then you, you explain what your morning routine looks like in the comments. Or if you're camera shy, you could maybe. I did a post lately which did really well and it was morning routine creator. So I put like eight different things and I said like save this post and pick three things every morning to create a morning routine. And then I put some, I put like a longer form caption in there just really talking about what people could do. And that posted so well because people were getting really educated. So I could just do that to build my brand. Or I could put a call to action and say, hey, if you're interested in working with me closer on figuring out how to build a more high performing lifestyle or get more energy and whatever it is, then I would push them my DMs or call to action and buy or things like that.

Love that. That's so good because we're all looking for more inspiration on this kind of stuff and I think we're always so curious. Like, I mean I always love Nadalie when you're sharing like all of your routine and your biohacking and your checklist. It's so people are so curious because you only see how you live and your lifestyle. And I feel like these like random quirky lifestyle things is such a great way for people to understand who you are but then also relating it to your work. If you're a health coach, business coach, like you're biohacking to optimize your brain, someone else could be doing it to help balance their clients, hormones etc, but just showing how you're Implementing that practice in your life.

Yeah, so true. And just leading from those others, like entertainment, just giving some ideas again, you know, we already talk about introducing yourself or you know, I did a post the other day and I was like the 10 things you don't know about me. And it wasn't, it wasn't, I wasn't teaching anything. I wasn't, you know, eliciting an emotion.

Like I would instantly click on that. Yeah, I would want to know.

It was funny. Like I thought it was funny anyway. And they just really like understanding like okay, well you know, especially right now, things like can be very heavy during 2020 and so people do want some more lighter entertainment. But like you've also then if you are going to go to the entertainment, really how do you hook them in? There has to be something that you've got to like get them in with. So I think you just have to be really, really strategic on what those like initial captions are.

Yeah.

And that. But I actually think entertainment posts can do really, really well right now because I say it's a little bit different. And then outside of that with the enemy one, like for us it's like, you know, we always talk about like necessary like coffee that we drink. Okay. So you know, we can be like, okay, we really, we really love this coffee because it's clean and it's got no toxins in it. And we're going to enemize this coffee over here which is like, you know, got mold in it and it's going to make our give us brain fog. And so really understanding, like, you know, a lot of people feel like they have to be liked by everybody, but it' actually okay to be polarizing. And it's actually okay to be like, hey, I stand for this, I stand against this. And like I said, it doesn't have to be personal, but I do think a lot of people get scared to even say what they don't like. And actually when you say what you don't like and what you're not for, then there can be a lot of community that can kind of, you know, surround that. And so I think we're just really understanding where that sits for you and your personal brand or your business brand is also really powerful.

So true. So you guys have just kind of created a formula of like what I noticed, but I never put words to like. Like looking at my most popular posts are the exact things you mentioned. But I'm like, oh, like why? Like I did one about, you know, the palo santo tree and how it might be endangered and this and that. And I'm like, that makes total sense. It sort of was the enemy, you know, a slash education or my reels, the ones that are funny, they do so well, view wise. But then I think what's hard is it's sort of like not really tied directly into anything that I like a product that I have. So that's the tricky part. Like, I feel like a lot of these entertainment, like comedians, et cetera, they grow these huge, huge, huge accounts, but they're often the ones that they're like, I don't have any kind of business. And then they, they sometimes end up on that hamster wheel of like, I just need to post viral content and not having like the actual community who would give them the email, et cetera.

Yeah. And I think that's actually a really good thing. Like, you know, if you want to grow a business off Instagram from like people actually buying from those DM pieces, I think entertainment is like the least one that you focus on. You really focus on those educational pieces and those emotions.

Yeah, Entertain is good, I think, because it helps them see that you're a human. And they're like, oh my God. Like, I actually love how she's able to make fun of herself or she's able to, like, you know, just be like me. And I think it also creates trust because you're like, willing to put yourself out there.

It's like, you know, Natalie spoke about it earlier. It's the brand builder. It's not necessarily the call to action one. It's like the brand builder. You're probably going to get likes and some comments from it versus maybe the.

Saves, you know, love that so much. Another thing I've noticed too are like kind of those like carousels where like, I feel like before it would be like a little lot of times a picture of you and a very long caption. Like I remember I would write captions like, I was always like, oh, I need more space. Like, it was always like, not enough space. Now that never really happens, but I'm doing a lot of the slides and what I heard, I don't know if this is true, that every time someone slides that, like, counts as a. Like, have you heard this?

Yeah, I've heard that too. And I think it's also powerful because your people are spending more time on your content, which time spent is such a good indicator of good content. So it's really powerful to do slides and just to build on what you were saying about some people using entertainment and just building accounts. What happens is this framework that I talk about a lot of content to grow, content to sell, content to build your brand. If you're just focusing too much on the growth side, which is your viral content, whether it's funny or quotes or whatever, and everything else is off balance, that's where you end up building an account where people aren't really going to buy from you. And so making sure however you're doing it for anyone listening, maybe, maybe you've got a piece of paper and you can just, you know, divide a page into three parts and write those titles. Content to grow, content to build your brand, content to sell. And just decide how often you're going to post. Maybe it's content to sell once or twice a week, maybe it's growth once, twice a week. And maybe it's build your brand three times a week. Like you can figure out what that looks like. But it's really important to get the right cadence because it's so easy to lean into one of the other. Oh my God, I'm getting so much engagement on this. I'm going to keep doing, doing it. And then before you know it, you show up to sell and no one's interested. But you have to really have this like, kind of like a lights on approach where if you are really on social media to take it seriously, to sell and to, to use it to build your business, then it's not about just, you know, showing up, being funny or being yourself 90% of the time and then selling 10% of the time because your sales very obvious. So it's about selling whenever you're not even trying to sell. Like, hey guys, like, this is the kind of tea that I use. Here's the brand. Or like take them through your day, like take them through all the different things. So like when I'm organizing my closet, I'm always like, oh, I got these from Container Store. So I'm selling all the time without, you know, I'm not.

And you're using like affiliate links for them?

Sometimes. Sometimes I use affiliate links, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I just tag the brand and say, this is the one that I used. And so it's really a mix. But people know that I'm authentic about it because I'm just bringing them through my daily routine, whether it's affiliate or whether it's not. And then when I show up to sell, it's not as in your face. Like, oh, she's selling us now. Like she's telling us to DM her for the mastermind or whatever. They're kind of conditioned to it because I, I'm always selling, I'm always sharing what's working for me.

I love that because I think a lot of times we're like, if I'm not paid by a brand, I'm not going to post or like tag anything. And then it ends up being like the only times that you are selling it's only for your product. But I love like I'm always getting ideas from your Instagram Natalie your always like, oh, I got this thing or I had uses acupuncture. I'm like save, save, save. So I'm like conditioned to go on your story because you're like a resource for me.

Yeah, exactly. And the thing is too, it's great to just be a resource and just to help. And if you're tagging brands, this has happened to me so many times where I'm tagging brands that I'm not working with. It's not sponsored. And then they DM me saying, oh my God, we just got so many followers or so many sales from that. It just happened with a matcha company. I was shopping, sharing them and they DM me like, we've been inundated with sales and we want to work with you. And. And then it comes really organically and it's such a great way to form a partnership if you want to get into that. Otherwise they might just decide to send you something for free. And if you really truly love the product, amazing, I'll take it for free. And so whether you're getting paid or whether you're not, it's just such a good way to build in trust with your audience. Like I'm only sharing things that I actually truly would use or care about. So true.

I think as well is what's coming through for me in this conversation is like Instagram and other social media platforms, they can be such a powerful resource, but you also have to accept there's so much to learn about them and you can only learn that if you are trying new things, if you have mentors or those people teaching you that because it can be a little bit intimidating and scary to get started. But actually just with anything that we do in life, we're always here to learn and have that growth mindset around how can I be better? How can I do more with this? And you know, Instagram and social media is just like that.

So true. I mean I love like our friend group because we're always giving each other tips et CETERA and we're really helping each other grow. And I think it's so important that we're like talking to people, learning from people who have done what we want to do before. And like, really just, you know, I think a lot of people had this mindset that like, oh, Instagram is just another fad. Like, it's this other thing that's here and it's going to go away tomorrow, so I'm not going to put my time into it. And now we can really see, like, okay, Facebook has, hasn't gone away, you know, it's just gotten more powerful, if anything, and it acquired Instagram and I'm sure it will acquire more platforms that do become trendy. That's just how it is. And the fact that you guys have built a, you know, multiple seven figure business literally from Instagram just shows that it's not just an app, you know, it really is, it's media. And I think, like, I always think, you know, because right now I'm in this process of creating a TV show and all of these things, but I keep going back. I'm like, I kind of already do have a TV show every day. It's called My Internet Instagram Stories. You know, I'm already curating content, going directly to the people, like showing whatever it is I want and like seeing it as that opportunity of like, we don't have to wait anymore to get chosen for a magazine or a show or a news article or whatever it is. We get to go directly to our exact people however we want. It's just learning these little tools so they can actually resonate with people more.

Yeah, that's so true. And it's so powerful and so many industries are waking up to this now as well, you know, particularly with 2020, the way it's been. Like at the retail stores, they're always looking at people who have got communities on social media who have built connection with people so that they can have that influence over what they choose to look at, what they choose to buy and move forwards with.

And for anyone listening too, it can be really tempting these days to say, I only have a thousand followers, I only have 5,000 followers. And I really just encourage people to think, wait, if you were in a room with a thousand people and you were on stage and you were sharing your message, message, do you not realize the amount of impact you'll be making? Like, it can be so easy to get caught up in all of the numbers, but really taking a step back and realizing those are a thousand real People following you, seeing your content, engaging with you. That is a lot of people. That's a big amount of impact. And I've seen people build very, very big successful businesses from having a very small like in hyphen, small account. You don't need massive functions, follower numbers to be building a really big business.

So true. I think we like get into Instagram, we're like, I just need to get as many followers as possible. But I think it's like going back to what is your goal with this? Is it to get as many one on one clients as possible? Like then you might just hit your, hit your cap of what you need and then you're, you're actually good from there. Or is it to, you know, we all have different goals and how we're using social media can shift with time, but it's not like a more followers, more money, anything. I we all know so many who with so many followers who have completely different jobs because they don't know how to monetize it and people with less followers who are having huge businesses from it. So it's really just, you know, dependent on your goal. One question I know a lot of people have is like, should I make my name, my username like my actual name or should it be a brand? Like back in the blog days everyone was like, I was eat feel fresh. Everyone was like some sort of blog. Should everyone shift to put their actual name on there?

So it really, really depends whether you do want to build a brand or whether you want to build a personal brand. So especially in the beginning, it's a lot easier to build a personal brand because people buy from people and they always will. If you are building an actual brand and you're wanting like a boss babe, we obviously use boss babe. We are not using our personal names. We did that because we really intentionally wanted to build a brand and our personal brand took a backseat and we wanted to build something very intentionally, very big. We wanted to build this big community. If I was starting out from the beginning and I was say, you know, starting my own coaching company or I wanted to sell courses, like I wanted to be in that space, I would start a personal brand because people buy from people and people relate to people, people trust people. It takes a lot to get a brand off the ground and it takes a pretty significant marketing strategy. Like people are looking less likely to follow a brand on social than they are a person. So it really depends where you're at. But if it was me, I'd go personal.

Yeah, 100% like, think of all the brands that we're buying things from. Do I follow them all on Instagram? Like, absolutely not. I'm following, like, people or very specific brands that feel personal, you know?

Yeah. And you probably follow the founder more than the brand if you love the brand.

Exactly. So I remember how much fear I had when I went from, like, even Eat Feel Fresh to I am Sahara Rose. I was like, people are not gonna be able to find me anymore. And I actually had Eat Feel Fresh on the back of my first book. I was like, they're gonna loot. But then it's like, it's not that big of a deal. Like, they'll find you, you know? And it's like, I'm so grateful that I did it. I just don't think I would have even stepped into creating this podcast and sharing more of who I was if I was still hiding behind that brand. I think a lot of times we do it because it, like, makes us feel more safe and comfortable.

Isn't that funny? How come, like, four circles circle as well? Like, talking about what you hide behind as well, and like, you say hiding behind a brand, so we just kind of question, like, you know, what it is that you want to come through and really what holds you back? Because you look at all the steps you've taken since then.

Exactly.

You didn't know all those steps were going to come. You just took that first step and then the others came after that.

Yes, exactly.

Powerful message in all of this whole conversation.

100%. Yeah. You got to take action, you got to move forward and, like, make it happen. Especially we need more high vibrational content on social media. Because I feel like so much when I go on my Explore page, it's all like really intense political shit and then you get hooked in and then I'm just like, oh, my God, I just went down like 15 different rabbit holes. And, like, my fight or flight is so activated. So we need more just like, high vibe content that makes people feel good. And I feel like especially, you know, this year has been wonky and is continuing maybe the next couple of years or so. So it's like, we need more that. So it's definitely that taking action. So you guys have a program called iga, which is just insane, like, seeing the results that people have. Can you share a little bit more about that?

Yeah. So IGA is our instant growth accelerator. So this is our signature program. And Danielle convinced me a couple of years ago to start creating content around this.

I was like, literally, you know, it's no secret Natalie is the guru behind our Instagram on our Boss Baby account. I was like, natalie, you are on Instagram queen. You need to teach people, people this. And she's like, no, no, no. And I was like, come on, let's go. Finally convinced her. And it's the most amazing product out there.

Yeah. I put it off for so long because I knew when I wanted to do it, I was going to go all in. And this is so just to preface this, this course is not for someone who isn't willing to put the work in. It's a really comprehensive program. It's the most comprehensive program online for social media growth and specifically Instagram growth. So basically when you hop into the program, you are so fundamental, fully held and supported. We walk you through really figuring out what your personal brand is or what your brand is, what your offer is, how that connects your audience, your messaging, your niche. We get you really, really clear on your niche. How to write a bio, how to continue auditing your bio as your business grows, how to create content, you know, from how to shoot it, how to filter it, how to edit it, how to upload it, and make your feed look cohesive, all of those pieces. Then we move on to the actual sales element of it. So half of the course is getting really, really clear on who you are, what you do, who you serve, why you do it, and showing you how to put content out there in a really meaningful way. And then the other half of the course is showing you how to convert and build a business. So once you're on there, once you're growing your account, you're bringing in those ideal clients. How do you turn this into a business? So I tell you what it looks like to take someone from a follower and turn them into a client. So that whole journey, whether you're having people DM you and you're keeping it simple, or whether you're the kind of person that wants to build that funnel before that four hour work week goal, and you want to build a funnel behind it. I show you how to do that. And then towards the end of the course, so the goal is, you know, you, you've got your account up and running, you're posting content, you're growing consistently, you're making sales. Then I show you how to build longevity. So how do you build an email list off the back of your Instagram account? I go into all the of this because for me it would be out of integrity to just say, let's build a follower account, not show you what it looks like to actually build an email list or a piece of real estate that you own. So we show you how to do that, and then we just bring it full circle and show you what it looks like to consistently keep this up. There's so many things in there. You know, in the first module, I address why you're not showing up. I address the confidence piece, I address the consistency piece. So it really does set you up for success. And it's very, very comprehensive. So it's something. Something that when you come in, you know, you really want to commit to being able to showing up and doing one to two hours a week for the next three to four months, because it's not an overnight process. You know, not many people just decide to get on Instagram and overnight they have a hundred thousand followers. It is something that you really want to commit time to. And if you're open and able to commit an hour to a week for the next three to four months, it would be an absolute game changer. I mean, the results that we see from IJ are just phenomenal. This program really, really works.

That is so amazing. It's something like, honestly, I spent so much time, wasted so much time in trial and error, and I actually took six months off Instagram when I was at the beginning because I was so. I just was like, nothing, I'm posting, no one's gonna like it. So the same thing, I just ended up not posting anything until I, like, had a good enough idea to post. And then another month and another month went on and it's like, again, like, we get ourselves into these, like, holes that we, like, doubt our, ourselves. And it's so important to. You know, I love how you, you offer all of these, like, frameworks we can just plug into, like, caption ideas, post ideas, et cetera. And then also the importance of creating a business off of it, because again, we could all do like Jerry and repost other people's memes and get a bunch of followers, but what does that really mean? So would this program be good for someone who doesn't yet have maybe their business off the ground? Maybe they're just graduating from a school. Like, could they still benefit. Benefit from this?

Yeah, it would be really good. So for two reasons. Firstly, it will actually help you develop your business. If that's something you're interested in, it'll help you really understand the niche you want to go in and who you want to serve. Or if you're not that stage yet and you're still figuring things out and you know, you're not 100% ready to take the leap into your business, but you want to build an audience for when you're ready to go. I think that's incredibly powerful. And, you know, going back quite a few years, when I had my first ever company, I didn't even have a personal brand, Instagram, I had a supplement company. But it took me so long to get the idea off the ground that in the background I was just building an Instagram account. And when I launched my business 12 months after building this Instagram account, I think I had around 10,000 followers. From my Instagram account alone, I was shipping to 60 countries, more than 60 countries. I got stocked in over 250 stores across the UK and that all came from Instagram. So there's a big, there's a lot of power in building something even before you're ready. And like we said at the beginning, putting one foot in front the other and, and taking action, you'd be surprised what opportunities come your way or what clarity you get around. You know what, I like posting that and I don't like posting that, or I want to share that and I don't want to share that or I'm noticing I want to serve that kind of person and not that kind of person. You generally don't know unless you try.

So true. I mean, even besides just like a physical product, it helped me get my book deals. So many people DM me every single day. I want to get a book deal. Like, how do I get a publisher? Publisher, honey, today's day, they want to know that you're going to be able to sell the book. Because publishing industry is not thriving right now. People are buying less books because people are spending more time on social media. So they want to invest in an author who they know already has an audience that they can sell books to. So me having the social media following at the beginning, like, I don't know how many I had my first book, maybe it was like 30,000 or something, you know, it doesn't need to be a hundred thousand, but they knew at least I had the capacity to build that audience to get the email list. So there was some trust in me already. And then that led. And then my book leads to also more people sharing it, which makes my following grow. But then my following book growing leads to more book sales. So it's sort of like, even if you want to be like an author, thought leader, anything else, your Instagram today is your. It's your resume. You know, you kind of Just can't not have it.

It's a currency in a way. You know, it's really recognizing that it's actually a currency in today's day and age.

Yeah, I know. I keep seeing different things of people saying how in the next couple years, it's to. Going. Going to just be really about how engaged your audience is.

Yeah.

Not. Not about, like, that really is the currency of the future. Because I think in the next couple years, it's going to be much, much harder to build your personal brand from scratch. So this is really the time, maybe the last couple years, that we would be able to do it in the way that we can.

I think that's what's really powerful about IGA as well. Like, there are so many courses, like, oh, we'll teach you how to get 10,000 followers. We'll teach you how to get 20,000 followers.

Well, and shady stuff.

Yeah. And it's not. That's a vanity metric if you're not careful. You need to be growing with an audience. You're building a community around who know like and trust you so that they do go on to buy from you. And people are getting smart now. There are so many people that will have, like, you know, 200,000 followers, but their engagement is like 200 likes on a post. Well, hang on a minute. This is not adding up. Like, where are those followers? They've either left you or they're bots. And I think you're right. Like, people do look about this, and it's important to be smart about it and build it in an authentic way. Way. Because, you know, we spoke about it right from the very beginning when I said, like, one of my values is. And how I lean into my higher self is building from love. And like, for me, that's the thing. Like, I just want to show up with a heart. So, like, what is it for you that makes you want to show up on Instagram? Why are you doing that? Are you doing it in a positive, authentic way? When you do that, I don't think you can go far wrong adding in all the other bits that you can be taught, you know?

So true. I think it's like when it turns into a numbers game. You're not operating from your highest self anymore. Like, you're. Then why are you even. Why are you even in this? You don't even care at that point.

That's when you can't post or you can't engage because you're not thinking about as actually interacting with people. Yeah. You're thinking about the vanity metrics. So I think when you start crossing over to like, oh, actually these are people on the end of this who are interacting with my post, answering these questions, wanting to get to know me a little bit more, it does make it much easier.

I think we just overthink things, you know, and our overthinking things makes us get paralyzed. It's like we would never have like speaking block in a conversation with like our best friend. You're never paralyzed of what you to say, but for some reason when it turns into writing a social media caption, that happens. So just like think of that same friend. And maybe at the beginning it takes, you know, having some example captions or something to get the ball rolling. And then it just becomes your vocabulary that you can just like in any situation create the exact post that you need from it.

And listen, I felt like I was that person. I literally was like, I cannot post, like, what do I even say for my personal account? And so I just think like, you know, it is something that you can overcome and you can learn about. And I think that education, when you educate yourself on it, that really helps. And then when you also commit to it going, you know what, I am going to make a difference. And you know what? There also isn't. I'm not going to fail. I'm just going to try this. I'm going to look at the analytics, I'm going to learn from it. So it's not about, oh, that post didn't do well. It's like always about, okay, I'm going to post this and I'm going to learn from it. I'm going to post this and then I'm going to learn from it. So when you change that attitude around what the outcome of that post is, around then it's not all of a sudden like, oh my goodness, pressure. I need this many likes. It's like, no, I'm just going to put this out there. I'm going to learn what the interaction is. I'm going to learn what people, people like about this. Then I'm just going to post again tomorrow or the next day or the next week or whatever that looks like. And just taking out some of the pressure that I think a lot of people put on themselves when posting on social media and just making it more human again.

Yes. Amazing. Oh, I'm so excited to see people taking this course and how it's going to help them share, you know, the message of unity and expanding consciousness. And like, there's just so many incredible people who listen to this podcast and I'm just like, I want you to put your voice and put your message out there. So I'm so excited to see where IGA takes them. And we have a really special offer. We are offering $100 off IGA. So we have a code over for you@bossbab.com Sahara you will be able to see IGA there. There are such incredible testimonials and stories from people. It's so inspiring. Sign up for the course. How soon can they get started?

Right away. So as soon as you sign up, you'll get instant access, you'll get onboarded and you'll just dive straight in. And the first thing we're going to call cover is really figuring out what's stopping you from showing up. So what, what confidence issues might be getting the way? How do you need to rewire your mindset? And so from the get go, we're going to be setting you up for success. And then just know that you're held because listen, I know how scary and overwhelming it can be and you'll probably, some of you might be listening to this, like, you know what? Yeah, I'm going to do that in a few months when I'm in a better place with my business. Why not do it now? So that in a few months when you are ready to launch, you've already got got that set up. So just know you're supported, you are joining a course that thousands and thousands of people have joined and have gotten results from and you're plugging into that community. So you get to ask questions, you get to plug in and see what other people have been doing. So yeah. Boss.comsahara and when you go on that page, you're going to see so many testimonials, you'll be able to see a full outline of all the modules and then as soon as you sign up, you'll dive straight in and then make sure you tag us all and share your journey because we want to cheer you on.

Yes. Like guys like Danielle and Natalie are the people I immediately think of if I have any like Instagram business, like any sort of question, I always share the people that I want to personally learn from with you guys. So you are seriously learning from the best. And you're also just like down to earth female. Like I feel like a lot of times this Instagram, you know, growth, it's so like masculine, it's so like at any odds possible and you know, you guys really bring it down to human connection, connection and that's really what we need. And like, using this as a powerful tool that you can just speak soul to soul with someone and then from there it just becomes fun. You know, it's like, great. I get to make an impact on someone else's life, a thousand people's life. Like, how insane is that? Like, what a cool time we are incarnated and that we can just do that for free, you know? So I think we forget, like, 10 years ago you'd have to buy a billboard or an ad or something to have your message seen by people. And now, now it's like, what for the cost of learning how to use Instagram, like, you can just do it for free and get started and be able to reach the exact people that you want. And it's just really a cool time to be alive. So thank you guys so much for sharing with us today. It was such an honor to have you both here.

Thank you. This is amazing. I absolutely loved it.

Thank you so much for having us.

Yay. Namaste.

Namaste.

Namaste.

I hope you took some notes and if not, you can always rewind this episode and listen to it again because that, that was gold. I mean, I even learned a lot in that episode. So if you're wanting to learn more about all things Instagram growth, join iga. It is the best course out there for growing your Instagram. I'm also going to be taking it as well. So I'm super excited to dive in and learn more from these girls. So you can head over to bossbabe.com Sahara and use code SAHARA100, all capital letters for $100 off. I have that link in the show notes. Whoever you're listening, just click your show notes. But it's bossbabe.com Sahara and the coupon code is Sahara100 for $100 off. I hope you enjoyed this episode. You use it to spread your dharma out into the world using social media and raise the vibration of the planet together. If you loved this episode, I would love to send you a free gift, which is the first half of my unreleased book, Eat Right for your mind body type. This is a different book than Eat Feel Fresh, my first book ever which is not released anywhere. And and I am gifting it exclusively to those who leave a review of my podcast in the itunes store. So all you gotta do is head over to itunes where you may be listening to this podcast and leave a review, take a screenshot that you've left it and email it over to me@saharaatfieldfresh.com Again, that's Sahara S A H A R A@eatfeelfresh.com and I will send you back the first half of my unreleased book, Eat Right for your Mind body Type, which goes all into Ayurveda, doshas, plant based nutrition, body types, all of the things in a really fun and engaging way. So this is my gift to you for free for supporting the podcast. Every single review I personally read. It really helps the podcast be listened to by more people so we can raise the vibration of the planet together. And I am so grateful to have you on this journey. Thank you so much for listening and I'll see you on the next episode. Namaste J.