404: Healing Ancestral Trauma + Family Wounds Through Family Constellation with Marine Selenée

Namaste, it's Sahara Rose.

And welcome back to the Highest Self.

Podcast, a place where we discuss what makes you your soul's highest evolvement. If it's your first time listening, welcome. I'm so grateful that you're here. And if you're here every week, you've been here for months, years. I'm so grateful that you're back. I love learning and growing and exploring different spiritual topics with you. And this really has been like a spiritual university here on the podcast. It's been over four years now, 400 episodes of free spiritual content here to support you in your evolution. And I'm so grateful that you're here. I'm grateful for every single person who has shared on this podcast. And this is another episode that I know you're going to love. It is so transformational and really holds a dear place in my heart because Family Constellations work has been one of the most healing, healing forms of healing and modality I've done that have supported my life. So if you're not familiar with Family Constellations, it's a therapeutic approach designed to help reveal the hidden dynamics in a family or relationship in order to address any stressors impacting these relationships and heal them. So if you recently saw that show on Netflix, the Love, Sex and Goop show, they actually show Family Constellations in one of the episodes and how it's done in a group setting. But I actually did family consolations one on one with the woman you're about to hear today on the podcast, Maureen. And it was so helpful for me to really dive into not only my relationship with my parents, but their relationship with their parents, which I had never really gave so much thought before, and how a lot of the dynamics that they have experienced in their childhood, they echoed back in mine. And you could go even beyond deeper than that. And that came from how your grandparents were raised, which came from how their grandparents were raised, et cetera. And now the study of epigenetics really shows that a trauma that has happened in France, for example, our grandparents lives, actually impacts our genome, which will impact the way that we react to certain particular triggers. So I was actually reading a book about this recently and they did this study on mice and they electrocuted mice and at the same time exposed them to the smell of cherry blossoms. So the children of these mice, whenever they would smell cherry blossoms, they start to get very anxious and release a lot of stress within their bodies, even though they had never lived through that electrical shock. But simply because their parents have, they were born with actually more neurons to sense the potential smell of cherry blossom and created more of an adverse reaction of, like, extreme anxiety and stress, whereas other mice whose parents did not have that experience did not have that reaction. So if that's not crazy enough, they took the test a level further, and the children of these mice. So now the grandchildren of the mice who got electrocuted with the smell of cherry blossom, at the same time they exposed these grandchildren to the smell of cherry blossom, and the same thing happened. They would get very anxious. They would have a really bad stress response, even though it was their grandparents who got shocked. And their brains produced more neurons to detect the smell of cherry blossoms. So what that means is a trauma that our grandparents may have gone through, for example, the Holocaust, for example, slavery, for example, child marriage, which is the case with all of my grandparents. My grandparents, also my parents actually escaped from war and revolution. So I am born with deeper neurons that make me more naturally afraid of political instability or getting thrown in jail or being forced to marry someone against my will, because that was the experience of my parents and my grandparents and every generation before that. Whereas someone else, they may have had the experience of extreme poverty. Poverty or assault, et cetera. And they may be indicating that with certain other triggers and certain other factors. So the entire study of epigenetics is really, really interesting. And in this conversation, we speak a lot about how family traumas are passed down and how actually so many of the things that we are struggling with today. Maybe you're like, oh, my God, I don't know why I have such a fear of speaking my voice, or I don't know why I'm a people pleaser, or I don't know why I can't finish things that I start or whatever. The thing is that you feel like it's like a.

You. It's a personal problem.

Maureen actually shares how maybe 80 to 90% of it actually comes from your parents. 80%. And to 90% of that comes from their parents. So, so many of the obstacles that we are confronted with are intergenerational. So we can't even have a conversation about healing and spirituality if we don't address this, because the Western approach is very clinical. It's very. It started with you.

Why are you like this? You need to fix it. But when we actually take a.

A higher lens and see it from a more cultural perspective as well. And she also shares where family Constellations originally came from, which was inspired by the Zulu tribe, the way that most of the world really handles different situations is through intergenerational support. And that's really what we're missing. We're missing that context. We're really healing in a vacuum and trying to fix things on our own without looking at, okay, well, maybe I feel this way because of my childhood, and maybe my childhood was this way because my father never had anyone that listened to him, and maybe because his father never had anyone who listened to him, maybe his father died, maybe he wasn't even around, whatever the thing was. And it really gives us such a greater compassion and understanding for why we are the way that we are, and then also allows us to get to the root of healing it. So in this conversation, we talk all things family constellations, ancestral trauma, and healing. We talk about how this work works. We talk about healing from different expectations that we may have had of our families. We talk about immigrant families and how sometimes the ways that we were brought up in one culture are different norms than the ways that we're brought up in this culture and so much more. I've actually had the pleasure of working with Marine one on one, which was super amazing. And then my parents actually said yes to doing their own sessions with her. So I'm deeply grateful for her work and her new book, which she'll be sharing more with us about in this episod. So without further ado, let's welcome Marine to the Highest Self podcast. And before we get started, I have an announcement for you. Are you ready to finally discover your soul's purpose, the big reason why you are here? Well, I've created a free masterclass experience for you where you will discover what your Dharma is and how it may be different from your career. How to navigate through having multiple passions, different ways to transition into your dharma, ways to overcome people pleasing and caring what other people think. My number one tool whether knowing a decision is right for you and journal prompts on the different types of resistance and how they show up for us. All of this is available for you for free in my Discover your soul's purpose masterclass. You can head over to iamsaharrose.commasterclass to join today again, that's IAM saharrose.commasterclass and you can find that link in the show notes. I'm super excited to see you in there.

Welcome Maureen, to the Highest Self podcast. It's so great to have you here.

Thank you so much for having me.

Thank you. The first question I'd love to ask you is what makes you your highest self?

So what makes me my higher Self. Self is definitely, you know, like doing things that I love, being surrounded by love, you know, being loved, like, yes, that's love for me. Love, love, love. That's for sure.

And what you really work with is helping people come back to love. Because so many of us, we really have obstacles. And for myself and for so many of us, they're often related to our families, Family, you know, obligations, guilt, what can feel like a burden. So can you share a little bit about what is family constellations work and how help us come back to love with our families and our relationships with ourselves.

So family constellations work helps you to uncover and dissolve any blockages in your health, career, love, life, relationships, like anything through your family story. Because the thing is, everything starts with your family story, with your family system. That's your first foundation. And whatever you will do, wherever you will go, your family system will follow you anywhere. So in order to bring love back into your system, through family constellations, we bring back together what was once separated, we make peace with the past, so then you can be fully in the present moment. We acknowledge what happened to you. We give a place to a trauma, a difficult situation, a secret, an estranged family member. And then finally, love can be back and flow again in your family and in your life as well.

And it's so important right now. I feel like epidemiology and the study of how traumas in our lineage can affect us today now is so well researched and well backed with science, and so many of us are realizing that many of the things that we suffer from, they didn't just begin with us, but they were passed along. So can you share how family traumas, family obstacles, but also family gifts and things that really make us unique can be passed on intergenerationally?

So first of all, there is the scientific aspect of it. In the 80s, it has been proven that through our cells, through our DNA, the term is epigenetic. From generation to generation, we can pass on traumas through our cells. The good news is, when you set up an environment with love, respect, peace, deep healing, your cells are going to readapt to that new environment. So you won't pass on any traumas anymore. That's the first thing. In a way, that's exactly what we do with family constellations. We acknowledge what happened. For example, my grandparents survived from the Holocaust. Of course, you can imagine, you know, like some awful situation, you know, like emotionally, like draining and everything. And you, because you want to be part of your family system, because you would love actually to take care of Your grandparents, you are going subconsciously speaking, repeat the same dynamic, maybe of being guilty of being alive. So self sabotaging your life, losing your money, not being happy in your love life. And so finally doing family constellations will give you permission to give back the story that happened to your grandparents and finally writing your own story. I acknowledge this happened to my family. It did not happen to me. It does not belong to me. So now I give myself permission to be happy, to do better. Because again, the only way forward is to honor what happened before. And when you do that, you can finally take care of your own destiny without feeling guilty.

I love that so much. And I have a friend who. She shared that she was always really territorial with food, that, like, whenever there was food, like, she would have a really hard time if someone wanted to share it. And she was like, no, like, I need to know if you want some of my food. And even though she's always had enough food in her life, it was always like she just had a really tough time. She felt like she needed to finish her plate all the time. She would binge eat at night, and she never really knew what it was. She thought, I don't. I don't know, maybe this is just my thing. And then she realized it was from the ancestral trauma of the Holocaust, specifically that her grandparents did not have enough food, which made her parents always feel like, finish your food. There may not be enough food subconsciously, which led to her having that same realization. So it's so crazy that so many things that we think are our own quirks or bad habits actually come from this ancestral trauma.

Yes, exactly. Like, again, like, you just say, you know, like it did not start with you. Whatever you are going through right now, honestly, 90% of the time, it is connected to someone else, fate or destiny or life. And maybe that person could not heal it or did not find the strength to face it. So the family system will always look for reconciliation and reparation. So the next generation is always a next chance for the family system to finally heal.

So how can we tell if it did start with us or it did come from our ancestors? Are there any tips that you have?

I would say when emotionally your reaction, like your emotional reaction is out of control, it's like, you know, you can understand it, you know, you can process it. You know, like, as an adult, like, okay, I understand. I was angry because, I don't know, like someone cuts a line, for example, you know, at the post office. Okay, I was angry, but that's it, you know, in one minute, it's done. It becomes to the past. You know, if your mind is, like, running like a crazy rabbit, you know, like, oh, my God, how dare he? You know, like, I'm so envis. You know, I don't have a place. Like, who am I? You know, I'm not worth it. Like, you can be sure that story also belongs to your past. It's emotionally, like, it's just out of control, you know, like, you cannot, you know, like, deal with it in a proper way. I would say, you know, just, like, joke. Like, okay, I understand the situation. I process it. Next.

Yeah. And I think a lot of things that even stem from our childhood come from our ancestry, because even our childhood, we were raised by our parents. And for example, let's say one of your parents had an avoidant attachment style, and you always felt like, no one cares about me. No one cares about what I feel. Most likely one of their parents dealt with them the same way. And it's really just this intergenerational thing that I think a lot of our parents just didn't have the tools or the awareness to know how to deal with it. Question I have is, you know, in my own experience and many others, our parents grew up in different countries, so they grew up with different cultural norms, expectations of, you know, what a family is supposed to be like, how involved families are really supposed to be. You know, I've done sessions with you, and both of my parents have, which has been amazing. But, you know, it really brought up the discussion with my dad. I opened up with him, and I shared, you know, I wish you were more involved. I wish I was able to talk to you more. I wish we had a stronger relationship. And he was like, do you know what my relationship with my dad was like? I saw him sit at the dinner table, and that was it. And I wasn't really even allowed to talk to him the rest of the time, because that's just what fatherhood was like there. And his father abandoned him. So he's like, how am I supposed to have this role of what an American father is supposed to have when I come from a different culture? And it, you know, it kind of brought me to this other perspective of, oh, wow, I've been expecting you to be the dad from Full House, because that's what I've seen on tv. And your expectations is, fathers aren't even involved in people's lives. So he actually felt like he was the most involved father he's ever seen. So can you share more about different Cultural norms and expectations of parenthood.

Yeah, I relate with your story because, you know, that's kind of the same story with my family. My mom and dad, of course, you know, like, even my mom, you know, was born in France. Like, she was raised differently. Like her mom telling her, you need to get married, it's very important. You need to have children young, it's better, you know, like before 30, have your children get married. And for the career, you will see, you know what? Like, it's not that important. So of course my mom got married at 22 and had me at 24, you know, like, just like easy. And then, you know, so she had me and how she raised me was actually my daughter. You need to be financially independent, you need to take care of your career, you know, like, that's very important. Thanks enough. My father was very open minded and actually, you know, like, supported his wife to have a career as well. So I witnessed a new age, you know, of relationship. Like, the woman can make more money, you know, than the man. And it's okay, they can still be in love, they can still be, you know, respectful towards each other for sure. But my example is kind of unique because back to the 80s, you know, like our mothers, they're kind of this first generation of working, of making money, you know, like just a bit, you know, like. But, you know, it was just a big chance, you know, for them. I would say we are that new generation of women born in the 80s or 90s where we can make money, where we can be seen as a successful woman. And this, of course, for our father, our brother is like, oh, okay, that's interesting. That's new. Even for her husband, for partner, it has been hard to adjust because their position as a provider has changed. I don't need you anymore to take care of me. I can take care of myself. So you better show me something else so then we can be together. So men also got lost, you know, in that new way, you know, that new dynamic between a woman and a man. And I think, you know, what happened is, for example, in Italy, it's a mama, you know, like, the mother takes care of the children, especially, you know, like her sons. And you as an adult, you meet your wife, you expect her, of course, like, take care of me. My mom used to do my laundry, she used to cook my favorite dish, you know, and everything. So then we have to educate our partner, you know, like, I understand where you came from, I understand your heritage, but could we do differently now because the world has changed and of course, for your father, I'm sure he thought that he was great because maybe he was talking with you, he was paying attention, like, I don't know, to your studies or asking you question, how did school go today? So my father, he was abandoned by his own father. So my father also as well thought he did an amazing job, which if you ask me, I didn't have a father. Like, I didn't have a relationship with him. He was a great husband with my mom, but as a father, he was completely disconnected. So here is the thing. It's either you choose it as an excuse of not doing better, or you also choose to be like, you know what? Okay, I did not get the chance to have a father example, but together with my wife, with my children, I'm going to create a new way of being a father. Because that's kind of the same thing, you know, when my clients, you know, tell me, marine, my family, I came from an addict family, I came from an abusive family, I came from violent family. Again, you can say, you know what, in my country, in my family, men are violent towards women. What's the problem? Yes, of course you can do it again, but you're not going to do any good. In order for the next generation to be happier, you need to do better. So you need also consciously to be like, I'm going to break the pattern, I'm going to break the cycle, and I'm going to give myself permission to do better. So, yes, your country of origin, even your religion, maybe you came from a Muslim, Jewish, Catholic, you know, like background religion. And right now you don't want to go to church every Sunday. Maybe you're even more spiritual. So there is also the decision to break free from what you received from your parents. What, you still believe that? Yes, I would love actually to pass this on. And what, you don't want to do it again? So it's also your choice as an adult, your responsibility as an adult to choose what you like and what you don't.

And I think it just takes it back to, yeah, like, just because it's in your lineage, it doesn't mean like, oh, this is just what we're like. Like, I see sometimes on social media, on TikTok specifically, a lot of people joking about getting beaten up as a kid. Like, oh, especially in a lot of cultures that happens, they take the chancla, like the sandal, and they beat them up with it. Or in a lot of African cultures, Middle Eastern cult and kids kind of bond over it of just like well, this is just how. How we're raised. And to me, there's, like, a sadness to that, you know, to that acceptance of, like, this is just who we are. And I think it, yes, it is important to have that acknowledgement of, like, yeah, that happened. And, you know, Even in the 80s, I'm sure, like, spanking your kids was, like, what they actually recommended people to do. Yeah, you're saying yourself, too.

That's.

That's actually what they thought was good child rearing. And we can still continue to choose and to do better with more information. So my question is, let's say our parents raised us in a way, they yelled a lot or something that we don't want to pass on. How much of a responsibility or necessity is it to have that conversation with them and have them apologize and see that it was wrong versus just carrying on and not repeating that pattern? Especially if your parents get very defensive when you bring up anything that they did wrong.

The thing is, what your parents or your family were able to do, were able to give to you, it's actually the only way that they thought that they believed in. They could not have done any better. And that's the first thing first to recognize. Of course you can talk with your parents. You can tell them, listen, what do you think about your behavior? Like, when I was five and you were. Are spanking us, could you now understand that maybe it was not the appropriate way to teach me, you know, like a lesson? Your parents, on a rational level, of course, they might acknowledge that. Yes, that's true. You know what? As for now, I can see it was maybe not the right way, but in terms of apologizing for it, how do you want to apologize for something that you thought was the right thing to do? It's like, you know, the same thing with tough love. My father, for example, was a very tough dad. We had, my brother and I to have straight A at school, and if we were going to misspell a word, he was going to take the dictionary and we had to read, you know, the definition 10 times until we finally repeated the words correctly. But for my father, it was a way of giving education to his children. For him, it was not doing anything wrong. For me and my brother, it was a trauma. Every time we could see the dictionary, we're like, oh, my God, here it is 10 times. Let's do it. So of course you can have a discussion with your parents, but if you want to have that discussion with your parents, do not come. Do not enter the discussion with anger. Or frustration or with resentment, because otherwise you are going to channel actually your inner child's emotions and you won't get the discussions that you want as an adult. If you want to have that discussion with your parents and feel at peace after, you know, even just a bit lighter, you need to show up as an adult. I understand where you came from because I can also understand your story through my grandparents. Because your parents, they were also children. At some point, what happened to them with their own parents, maybe they're even going to tell you, you know what, it was so much better than with my dad. And yes, you know what, you are right, it was so much better. But if you, you know, have that discussion just to prove that, mom, dad, you need to apologize because what you did was wrong, they are going to defend themselves, that's for sure. That's guaranteed. Your parents are not going to listen to you because they are going to feel attacked. And it's not about them apologizing, it's about you finally, you know, like releasing the hold on that story. Because what truly matters is only your emotions and feelings with that story. That's where the real healing is. The story in itself, it happened. But you cannot rewrite the story. However, you can acknowledge your emotions and be like mom and dad. I understand where it came from. However, I want to tell you that I felt rejected. I felt hurt at that moment, using the I, your parents, they are going to listen to you and you, in the meantime, you are going to free yourself from that burden.

Do you feel like if your parents aren't in a place to even have, they're not even open to that conversation, that just writing a letter addressed to them that you never actually give them can do same amount of healing work?

Yes, because the thing is, again, it's not about them, it's about you. It's just. Just the recognition of your story, of your emotions, of your feelings. So even the simple act that I actually give to my clients to write a letter, you know, like just recognizing what happened will tremendously help you. Because remember one thing, you are now in charge of your inner child. You are in charge of your little girl or little boy and sheltering his emotions, whatever he did not understand, this is your job now to tell him what happened. So, yes, you can also do that as well.

And I feel like writing a letter of everything that you want to say. It's so freeing and cathartic to just get it out of like, even the you of, like, you hurt me, you this just to get it out and for me, that was helpful to. Before I had a conversation with my dad to not, like, come from that place of, like, rage and tears and this and that, but, like, come from a more neutral place of. Of just here's how I felt with it without getting back to how I felt as a child, which again, would make him get more defensive and then perpetuate my thoughts about him.

Yes, exactly, exactly. Like, when you come from a place of self power, self love, you know, self respect, you can have a positive discussion, a positive conversation with one of your parents or the two of them without expecting them to give you what you need at that moment. True healing can happen. That's guaranteed.

Would you recommend if a parent feels toxic to actually to cut off communication with them? Or do you think that even if they are, maybe they're even mentally ill or narcissistic or something like that, that cutting off that communication is. Is almost like cutting off a part of yourself?

I think you have the right to know what's best for you. And it's your own boundary. You need also to be aware of maybe the toxicity of your mother. And again, with a lot of love, acceptance and respect, being like, you know what? You are my mother. I am your daughter, but I am not here to suffer from you. Because you do know that whatever your mother is dealing with, it's not because of you. It's not even your business. So you have the right, if it feels better for you, of course, to not call your mom anymore, to not talk to your mom anymore until maybe finally your mom starts working on herself. Maybe it will also trigger, you know, like, her own desire to finally be like, you know what? Maybe it's time now for me to see, you know, what I can do and how I can be a better mother. But yes, boundaries, toxic mental illness. Like, you cannot take care of your parents. That's not your job. Your job is to protect yourself. That's for sure.

Yeah. And maybe even setting a time of like, mom, like, I think it's best for both of us, for us to take like one month or six months or whatever it is, just so she knows when to expect. And maybe in that time you can send her a book or something if she's open to it or. Yeah. I think what's difficult is so many of us are doing the. All of the healing work and we feel like we're the one who's, you know, pulling the grunt of the work. And our parents may actually go deeper and deeper into their own story with that time apart. We'll take a quick break so I.

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What do you say to those of us who often feel responsible for our parents? Maybe as a child we were like the parents therapist and their best friend and the one that helps them get through everything. So the idea of cutting them off, it feels too hard because we're like our one of our parents emotional support system. So what is your suggestion for that?

That's a common theme in family constellations. You know that disorder when the child becomes the parent. The thing is when a child becomes the parent because maybe mom is depressed, dad is an addict, you know, like whatever it is, you are not going to enjoy your life as an adult to the fullest. Maybe you're going to stay single to stay with mom. Maybe you are not, you know, maybe you are going to self sabotage your career so then dad can still give you money, so then he still has a place and feels useful that you are in a way condemning your adult's life by still being responsible for your parents lives. And when finally you recognize that you know what, I am your son, I am your daughter, you are my mother, you are my father. It's of course going to give you strength. But it's also going to help your parents to finally be aware of their own behavior. The thing is cutting off your parents, if really you're in a very abusive relationship or toxic relationship, I think it can help. But no matter what, your parents will still be behind you. Mom on the left side, dad on the right side. And what you can already practice, it's really giving them a place behind you. Like meditate on it. Visualize your parents taking their own place. And when you feel that your mom is trying again, you like to manipulate you, be like hey mom, I see it, I see you, but I cannot take care of it for you. Like too demanding, too needy. No matter what, you can be sure that your mom did not have a mom either. That's also the thing. It's just like a repetition. Because if your parents did not have strong support, a strong system with their own parents, there is a lack. So of course they are going to as our children, be that person for me. But it's unfair to your child. So as an adult you can also be like hey mom, what about you? What happened to you as a little girl? Did you feel supported by your parents? And maybe your mom was like, you know what? Not really. My mom was mean. She was strict. Okay, so why don't we do together, for example, a woman's lineage ceremony, like, finally giving back, you know, like, to the children, the mother. You can also do something altogether, you know, like, if, of course, your parents will be willing to do it. But I think it's also a beautiful way to heal together because we are all connected. So rather than just being like, hey, what do you think of your story? What did you experience? Because if we are having that issue, something happen as well to you, why don't we take care of it together? That will be my suggestion.

Yeah, totally. And I think also so often, our especially mothers, they may have grown up being that crutch for their mother. And who's the crutch for their mother and their mother? And they may feel, well, I am always taking care of my mom. I'm always there for my mom. So who's going to take care of me? Who's going to be my emotional support system system? And I feel like daughters especially bear that brunt of it of needing to be the emotional caretaker and regulator of everyone in their family. So to help your mother do that healing work on her own, rather than, and I feel like too empowering her to find, like, her own coaches, books, programs, et cetera. So again, it's not like, okay, now I'm your therapist and healing your childhood, which can create more of that codependency.

Yeah. Just like we are all connected. We all belong, you know, like to the same fate with a different destiny. And again, it did not start with you. So ask your mom, how was your relationship with Grandma? Because Grandma was great with you. Maybe she was an amazing grandmother. Maybe your mom is jealous, actually, of your relationship with her own mother. Like, it's so unfair. But that's also how you can break the cycle between mother and children. So maybe, of course, your mom is going to refuse to do the work at that moment. Retract. You cannot force your parents to take care of themselves again. You are the little one. You are not the big one. That's something to accept. And I would add, there is that amazing affirmation, I think in family constellations is, I trust you. I trust your destiny, meaning wherever you are at that moment, that's yours. Who am I to tell you it's not enough? You should fix it. You should work on it. You should heal it. It's not my place. My place is to lead by Example. And the more you shine on your own, the more fulfilling is your life, I think, the better you can help your family, your friends, your partner, your children.

Yeah. And I also feel like each of us, each generation that goes on, we're kind of rising in consciousness. One because of the world we're in, but also on a spiritual level of. You know, people call them the Indigo Generation, which was, like, they say, between, like, the 60s and 90s, who were, like, kind of the. The generational breakers of the different bondages. And now they're saying it's the Rainbow Children and the Crystal children, these different vibrations that they're giving it names for of different levels of consciousness. So I think what happens is sometime as a child, we see the family's dysfunction. So clearly we're like, wait, like, there is some weird narcissistic codependency thing happening here. There is some weird not talking about what's really going on here. So then in that way, because we see it so clearly, we feel responsible for sharing it. And then sometimes, especially people listen to this podcast, we become the way showers for our whole family that it's almost like we can't fully step forward because we're always, like, holding all of their hands and trying to get them to come with us.

Us.

But at the same time, there's a beauty in that, too. Like, I know for myself, my parents were definitely not spiritual, but I kept introducing them to it, Kept introducing to them, even if I would be shut down, that eventually it got to the point that I shared with you. I was having this, like, dialogue with my mom, how I wrote about them in my book, and she was, like, so unhappy. And we're kind of, like, going back and forth, going back and forth. And then my dad was like, okay, everyone close your eyes. Imagine you are mother on your left side. And she, like, repeated the meditation that you showed him, which he's never, ever done in his life. And I was like, wow. Like, you think they're not listening? But in that moment, he saw we're fighting that he's like, let me guide them through a meditation, which is just those little ways that you never know how you make an impact in their lives.

I love it. Honestly, when he told me that story, I was like, he did listen. You know, he did care about his daughter's gift as well. You know, with a session and at the end of the day, you know, like, it's all of us, you know, doing our part and trying to do better and, you know, like, and just connecting with Each other. And I think what your dad did at that moment was great, you know, like. And I'm sure we're like, hold on a minute. I know that's meditation, you know, like. But at least it stopped, you know, the conflict, you know, between you and your mom. So it did help, you know, like. So I think it's. They are listening, you know, like. But we can only plant seeds, even with your clients. I'm sure sometimes I do that with my clients. Some of my clients are resistant to the change. They're like, but, Maureen, I've been anxious for my entire life. That's my way of belonging. And you are telling me that I don't need to be anxious anymore and I will still be part of my family. Hold on a minute here. Maybe I'm not ready yet. And that's okay.

Yeah. You can't force it.

Exactly.

Yeah. I think it's so powerful right now that we're given access to all of these tools. But it's also our nervous systems take a certain amount of time to open up to something that, like, some of us are just like, we're here for the transformation. Other people, it's. It's that feeling of belonging, of, let's say everyone. I had a friend, Everyone in her family just yelled at each other. That's just how they spoke. So for her, whenever anything would happen, she would start yelling. I'm like, girl, why are you yelling right now? And I realized that's just how people in her family communicate. It's almost like whoever's loudest, and they don't really take it that personally. But then if she enters into a relationship and shows up like that, people would be like, what? So it's almost like we just take on these. These aspects of our family identity, and even if they're not serving us, it's that inner child that just wants to belong.

Yes. We want, you know, all of the issues that we are dealing with at that moment. That's the same route we want to belong. It's always a belonging issue, because we want to be seen, we want to be heard, and we want to be recognized. So whatever it takes, we will do it. If everyone is an addict, okay, I'm going to be an addict. If all of the women in my family had miscarriages, okay, I may also have a miscarriage just to be long, you know, like, just completely subconsciously speaking. Same thing with eating disorders. Same thing with depression, with anxiety, with not making money, or you are going to make a lot of money. But then you are going to feel guilty, so you are going to lose all of your money. So then, hey, don't worry, I'm still here with all of you. So when you finally understand the power of your family system over your own life, you can finally break the cycle and be like, but I can still belong with who I am. Not yelling, for example, for your friend. You know what, you still want to yell, okay, But I'm going to show you a different way of talking. And maybe the mom is going to be like, oh, that's nice. Okay, that's new. And then maybe the brother and then maybe the father, like, hey, it's great. And then finally we can move on.

I love that. So what is your advice? You know, the holidays are coming up and a lot of us are going back to our family homes or even our in laws homes where a lot of these same or even different issues exist. So what is your advice when it's like often feels like you go back to your inner child when you're around your family, the same triggers show up, the same anger shows up that it honestly may even feel toxic for you to be there. But you also do want to be there for your family. So what are your tips on making that more bearable?

I would say the discussions, the inner discussion with your little girl or little boy will be the best choice. You know, like to practice to do before Thanksgiving and Christmas going back to your family because again, it's not your adult self being triggered, it's your inner child being triggered. And you can definitely reassure her, tell him what's going to happen. It's like, you know, when you tell your own child, okay, sweetie, we're going to see the doctor. The doctor is going to ask you to open your mouth, you know, like whatever it is, you know, so then you can check your throat. It's kind of the same thing. Okay, we do know that mom might trigger us by being asking us, hey, are you still single? When am I going to have grandchildren? Okay, so we are already aware of that situation. The rather than being like, could you please, you know, just give me a break? You know, like, I'm tired of that question. I do whatever I want. You can be like, I understand that you would love to be your grandma, but right now, mom, that's not my choice. You always need to use the I. As soon as you use the you you did, you heard. You can be sure it's going to be in attack mode, defensive mode, and it's going to be a mess. When you say I Feel I am. I think you just take charge of your own behavior and reaction, which does not create an aggressive environment. So, yeah, take care of your little girl or little boy before, because you do know already the triggers. You do know what's going to happen. You do know that your uncle is going to get drunk again. It's been 15 years, you know, like, there is no miracle here. So just be aware, you know, like, I know it's going to happen. It's not about me. And I can also set up my own boundaries. And if really at some point it's too hard for you, you know, like, you feel that it's overwhelming, leave the table for five or ten minutes, excuse yourself, just go outside, maybe for a walk, or just go to the bathroom. Just breathing with yourself, you know, like, just like being with yourself, reconnect with yourself. You can also do that, I would say forcing yourself to stay in the same room where you can feel you are not doing great. Leave. Have that wisdom of being like, what do I need at that moment? I need to leave. Okay, for 5, 10, 15 minutes, go back with yourself.

So what is your take when someone says, like, for example, I feel like our generation is all about boundaries. And when I say these things to my mom, she's like, when I grew up, like, my 10 cousins would show up at our house and I had to sleep on the floor for a month. We were flexible. So what is your take? And the way that she sees it, she's like, your generation is so inflexible. You need to have it your way and on time, and you can't deal with other people who you don't like. Whereas for us, we were just around people all the time that we had to be able to get along with anyone. So what is your take on Maybe, yes, we have become very individualistic and even isolated in the Western society that it is hard for us to be around other people, different generations, et cetera. But also at the same time, they had no concept of boundaries or their own needs at all. So they may just see that as flexibility.

I think it's a very interesting time right now because we are actually going, for me, we are going back to the collective consciousness with boundaries. It's like, I am because we are. It's together that we can definitely create a change. And, for example, we saw it with me too, movement, you know, like, it's not only about women, it's about men as well, because your sisters, your daughters, your mothers, your grandmothers. That was also the same thing with black Lives matter, you know, like we need to be here for each other, you know, like it's not only a problem for black people, it's a collective problem. White people, black people, same thing for religion, you know, like, so I think we are at that moment where we understand, you know, that our real strength and power belongs to the people all together making change. But we also need to acknowledge our boundaries, that's for sure. Because otherwise people are just going to check and check and check. When women, when as a woman we did not have a voice to say, no, I don't want to sleep with you tonight, and we had to force ourselves, you know, like to have sex with that person, that's a lack of boundary. But then in our mind, even in movies, you know, even in movies, Sarah, you know, when you watch movies from the 80s, you know, you are like, oh my God, that's not appropriate. And then of course, you know, like those behaviors, they were seen as normal. So, okay, that's what happened here. Why do you want to change it? So I think we're also that generation making the change, sacrificing also maybe just a bit of our well being to also be like, you know what, we can do better and we need also, you know, like to say yes and no. Yes, this is acceptable. No, it's not acceptable. So maybe your mom, you know, for her, you know, it was being flexible, you know, to sleep with 10 cousins. But maybe right now, yes, you can still have your entire family, you know, like going home for vacation, but with rules. I'm not going to sacrifice my own well being for my 10 other cousins. Because no matter what, then it's resentment, then it's frustration, then it's anger. And it's not helping either because then it's health issues, it's cancer, you know, like it's so many, you know, like of course we could dive deeper in it, you know, but your body will then take care of it, you know, like to show you that there is something that is wrong and completely off with your lifestyle. So selfish. Being selfish is actually a positive feeling for me. You need to know what you need in order to give your best in your different relationships with others. That's also the problem, you know, with a pleaser or the over giver. But I gave you, I gave you. Yes, okay, I never asked for all of this. So you need also to receive everything is a balance, giving, receiving order disorder, you know, like it is so important. So I think actually we are pretty flexible new generation. We are pretty adaptable because we have been giving permission to others to have a voice to get married, you know, with the same gender, you know, like to have a voice. Like, I don't identify as a woman, but as a man, you know, like, I think actually we are, are open minded, like, okay, what can I do in order to help you feel that you belong with me, that you have a place as well?

Yeah, I agree. We are definitely collectively much more open minded than ever before. And it's in these broader ways. And you know, like growing up, whenever you go on family vacations, I'd be like, I'm taking the bed and my men. That was always the thing. I'm so selfish, but I'm like, I know my back will hurt, so I'm going to take the bed. And if you don't mind, like, you know, but it was always like, maybe just like intuitively I knew. But I think also just the expectation is like, oh, a kid needs to. It's like the hierarchy of like where you are. And I think especially in like in more community settings, right, Which a lot of people like in the Middle east and India and all over, they live in community. So it is like the youngest one is going to sleep on the floor, the youngest one is going to do this. The girls are going to clean up and be in the kitchen for the three hours after, after dinner while the guys sit around and play badgammon and smoke their cigar. And that's just the way it is. So when someone speaks up against a cultural norm, they're seen as selfish. But it's really, they're awakening to something bigger. And at the same time, I do think that it is more challenging for us in the Western world to adapt to intergenerational and communal living just because we have such high standards for how we want to spend our time that we're like, I don't want to spend four hours watching, watching TV with you because I have better things to do. Whereas in that generation time was just a lot more superfluous. Like they didn't really have these high demanding jobs, so you could just like spend the whole day, quote unquote, wasting time doing nothing. Whereas for us we're so hyper diligent on our time. So my question for you is a lot of people do want to move to community right now, basically recreating their own family with friends. How can this work in a way that right now we still are so used to getting things that we want when we want it.

So first of all, if you want to be part of A community with your friends. You better be at peace with your own parents. Because the community is going to represent your mother's relationship. And then of course, in your community, you need, no matter what to have rules, to have boundaries which will represent the father's relationship. So that's the first thing first, you know, like, even some of you are like, yes, it's gonna be so cool. No rules, no boundaries. We love each other, we understand each other. Now in a month. In a month, I just give you a month. One month, you are going to want to kill your best friend, period. Because guess what? We are human beings.

We are not perfect.

You know, like at first it's a fantasy. We are gonna do better. That's not true. Okay, so first thing first, be at peace with your first foundation, meaning your family, your parents, your siblings. Okay? Then you need to set up rules. Community rules, community values, community beliefs. Who is who? Like, I don't know, maybe there is a musician and he wants to play guitar until midnight. But maybe you, you are a mom with a newborn and you know what? The guitar until midnight. No, because you want to sleep actually while your newborn is sleeping as well. You need to talk and communicate about all of this. Insignificant details. But at the end, that will create the functioning of your community. And remember one thing. The Zulu tribe in Africa, where Bert Hellinger discovered a type of family constellations. At first, it was actually a way of resolving any issues happening in the tribe. It came from the Zulu, you know, they used to create a circle where everyone was allowed to share their emotions, frustrations and feelings. So yes, that's what also is very important is no matter what, we need a structure. People who think that without a structure we can be okay, I'm sorry, but it's a pipe dream. It does not exist because we are part of a systemic world. The first system, family. Second system, school. Third system, friendships. Fourth system, your career. We are part of a systemic world. So if we want it to work, we need also to create a structure. There is nothing more anxious than when a person does not feel. I have a structure in my life. That's what happened with COVID The unknown. We didn't know what was going on. Every day we're getting a new information. Like we're like, it's going to happen not often, Mass, no masks. That. That's the same thing. We don't do well with the unknown. So you want to create a community. I think that's amazing. But you need to have a structure of it and be at peace with Your family of origins, please. Then you just take care of it.

Yeah. And I think that's so important because sometimes people, because they didn't enjoy or they have unresolved anger, frustration with their family, they're like, you know what? My friends are my family. I'm going to create my own community. However, if you don't heal that, which doesn't mean family has to apologize or own up to it, but you internally have that resolution that you mentioned, you're actually going to perpetuate that. Like, I've seen people create the same dynamics with their best friends of whichever parent they didn't have full healing with. And it's like here they are thinking they know their best friends so well, and they're like, wait, am I actually codependent in this relationship? Or is this same, you know, neediness or whatever showing up? So it's so important because it's like whatever you don't heal, you're going to keep carrying on, carrying on. It's going to keep showing up in your field until you heal it.

Well said. Exactly. Whatever you do not understand, whatever you do not cope with, you are going to ask your best friend, your husband, one of your children, even one of your coworker, you know, to take care of it. So that's why, honestly, that's beautiful to create a community. But if you get still unresolved situations or relationships, you better take care of them before.

So for people right now, they're like, okay, I see it. I want to do the family constellations, the healing work. How can they get started?

You can get my book at first, like, if you want Connected fates, Separate destinies, it's about the principles of family constellations. And I give exercises and affirmations if actually you would like to start the work and get insights on your own breakthrough aha. Moments. I think it's a great start. You know, like, if you're a. A bit scared of doing a constellation, then of course I'm here. You know, I work remotely, I offer workshops. You can find me on Instagram, where I give, where I share all of insights about family constellations. And of course, if you type on Google, you can find Bert Henninger's books. He's a founder of Family Constellations. But yeah, basically, you know, like just, I would say become curious about your heritage and, you know, what I can see in my life right now. It's always the same pattern. It's always the same repetition. It's always the same story. Well, don't look any further it's part of your family system. That's also how you know when it belongs to you or when it does not belong to you. Because despite your best effort, doing therapy, doing healing, you are still dealing with the same shit. Pardon my French. Take a look at your family story. That's where your answer is waiting for you. That's for sure.

Well, I love the book so much. Connected Fate, Separate Destinies. And it has so many great stories as well. So if someone is curious about, I'm not really sure, what does it look like. I guarantee you you'll find at least one story that resonates with you and your family lineage. And for me, doing the one on one work with you has been so helpful. And like I mentioned, it opened up my mother, father and bro to all do their own sessions, which has been so great and our relationship is so much better than it ever has been before. So thank you so much for the work that you're doing in the world. It's so needed right now.

Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for your trust.

Thank you so much and I'll see you next time.

Wow, what an incredible conversation. And I hope this really inspires you to get curious about your parents upbringing. You know, what was the time when like what were some traumas they may have experienced? How did they feel as a child? What was their relationship with their families like? I think it's so important and I've realized that so often our parents actually like don't really tell us that much about their own childhoods. Maybe they feel like it's not important, it's in the past, they don't want.

To talk about it.

But I've actually learned so much about them that I would have never known before had I not gotten curious. Curious and asked. So I hope you take this as an invitation especially because we won't have our families around forever to get curious and to really ask and listen. And I think so much of growth like as an adult is to move away from seeing your parents simply as your parents, but seeing them as human beings as like their own person having a human experience here on this crazy earth with their own dreams and fears and worries and. And I think sometimes we continue to put them in our minds like only in the role of our parents. But as we get older we realize that they're just figuring it out too and they're still on their journeys. So I hope this episode can bring families closer, allow you to have maybe difficult conversations that you've been meaning to have. But just know that at the end of any meaningful conversation comes deeper growth. So I'm so grateful for you guys. I hope you check out Maureen's new book, Connected Fates, Separated Destiny. And I'm so grateful for you guys for being here. If you loved this episode, I would love to send you a free gift which is the first half of my.

Unreleased book Eat Right for your Mind Body type.

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So all you got to do is head over to itunes where you may be listening to this podcast and leave a review, take a screenshot that you've left it and email it over to.

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Thank you so much for listening and.

I'll see you on the next episode. Namaste.

Sam.