414: Questioning Your Beliefs To Become Free with Byron Katie

Namaste. It's Sahara Bros. And welcome back to the Highest Self Podcast, a place to discuss what makes you your soul's highest development. I am extremely excited to share this episode with you today because it is with a person who has deeply influenced my own life, especially in the past years year Byron Katie. You may have heard of her, you may have not, but she is definitely someone who you want to get to know because she has posed four questions that truly have changed the lives of so many people through what she calls the work. So it's been nearly 20 years that she has been sharing the work with thousands and thousands of individuals to question our beliefs, to actually ask, is it true? How can we know it's true? Who would I be without this thought? And what would the opposite be? And the Work has been extremely helpful for me in the past year as I was undergoing some challenges that really.

Were irritating me and making me angry.

And a friend of mine posed the suggestion for me to work with someone who practices the work, who's trained with Byron Katie. And I did one session with this person and I'm like, I have no more problems like they are solved because they allowed me to look at it from another perspective and to really question who am I to think that it should be another way and to really drop the word should. And I feel like the biggest transition I've made in the past year is how open my mind is and that I truly see the perspective in everything. And I have let go of any form of belief that it should go any one specific way, even the way.

That feels better or easier for me.

And to really just accept reality of what is. And I've begun really practicing this in my life with my friends, teaching this in Dharma Coaching Institute, and even diving deeper with my own questions that now I use to question my own beliefs. And all of this really wouldn't have begun if it wasn't for the work of Byron Katie. So I'm so deeply honored and humbled to have her here on the Highest Self podcast with you today, because it's my deepest joy to bring my personal teachers to you and to really let these wise women and wise men share their wisdom, especially with our millennial gener Gen Z, whoever is listening to this, that sometimes we don't have access to elders in the same way that we used to when we lived in villages. So she truly is such a wise elder Crone queen. And this is such a powerful conversation. And I decided to open up and be vulnerable and bring one of my personal problems to the episode for Byron, Katie, which she goes just by Katie to do the work on me. So I open up and I share. I get real about a situation that I was in that day. And I'm happy to say right now that it isn't a problem anymore. And actually, one of the reframes that.

She shared to me was my biggest aha moment.

That now anytime I'm like in that situation at all, again, I just, I ask myself that question that she asked me of. Is he ready? And that makes any form of me trying to make the situation go away or get better or any of it, it just drops it. So there's such freedom on the other side of questioning your beliefs. And we really go there in this conversation. I mean, I on this podcast always ask the questions that I feel you guys may be thinking or wanting to ask, especially questions that people are afraid to ask. And I go there on asking those questions to her. And she really answered in such a beautiful way. So without further ado, let's welcome Katie to the highest self podcast.

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Find that link in the show notes. I'm super excited to see you in there. Welcome, Katie, to the highest self podcast. It's so great to have you here.

Thank you.

The first question I would love to.

Ask you is, what makes you your highest self?

Oh. Oh, the life. Oh, my goodness. Life as it is. Life as it is, not as I imagine it to be, but the way it really is. Sahara. It's just a kind of understanding that I hold in me that is, I think we all are our highest selves, but what we're thinking and believing, anytime we don't experience ourselves in that frame of mind, let's say we can look to what we're thinking and believing about the world and it shows us the world as it is as opposed to what we believe it to be.

Absolutely. You share that any thought that triggers stress is an argument with reality and that reality is God. If it's happening, it's meant to be. And it's really about becoming a lover of reality. Can you explain that a little bit further?

Well, it's easy to love reality when I understand reality without the ego's lens on it. And so anything that is, let's just say, less than beautiful, I question what I'm believing about that person or anything in the world. I question it and I don't try to make it anything other than what it is. It's a true questioning. It's an open minded self inquiry where we look to ourselves rather than others to just get down with what is true. For me, we're tapping and when we do that we're tapping into something that is so authentic that we automatically trust it again. For example, if I look at someone and I see them using that expression again as anything less than beautiful in every way, then if I see them as less than that, I know it's me that is off. So I question what I'm believing about that person. And with that gone with that clear, I'm in touch with that human being and the war is over. If there's a war in this world with anyone or anything, I have to look to myself, meaning what am I thinking about the world or that person? And I can question. Maybe what I'm believing is valid, maybe what I'm thinking is valid. I'm not trying to win or lose anything here. I just want to know. And self inquiry gives me that. And anyone with an open mind, very open mind. Because the world really shifts as we sit in self inquiry.

Can you share a little bit about your story and how you awakened to this way of seeing the world?

It was after years of very deep depression, more painful than I would. Oh, I wouldn't want that for any human being. We all have all the pain we need anyway, we have enough. But as I lay sleeping on the floor, I was sleeping on the floor because I didn't, I was so full of self loathing I didn't believe I even deserved a bed to sleep in. So that is, that's depressing. So I lay, as I lay sleeping on this. More on the floor. This particular morning actually a bug, a cockroach crawled over my foot and I opened my eyes. I came out of this dead Sleep. And I saw in just an instant that when I believed my thoughts, I suffered. But when I questioned my thought, I didn't suffer. There's an awakening in that. And I've come to see this is true for every human being. For example, I opened my eyes and there was no identity present. And then I saw the light coming through the window, but I didn't really see it until words, description attached to what that was. So we had object and we had a name. And it was a kind of chemistry that happened that I became. I saw light, I saw a ceiling, I saw walls and a floor, and I saw life. But it wasn't there prior to being shown the cause of all my suffering, the cause of all life and life by nature, out of our true nature. It's a whole different way of seeing that feels right. It's absent the depression. And anything on a scale from 1 to 10, from just mild dissatisfaction to very deep depression, that's what happened. And it maintains. This practice I call the Work the Self Inquiry, is available to anyone with an open mind.

It's almost like the veils lifted of our interpretation of something and also really seeing things as they are. You know, seeing the chair as a chair and finding that newborn fascination with life again. It's almost like you came back into this world with infant eyes and could see things for the simplicity and the truth of what they are.

Honey, that's really beautiful. And yes, thank you for. You have such a beautiful way with words. You just have such a gift, Such a gift.

I appreciate that, especially coming from you, whose words in the Work have changed thousands and thousands of people's lives, including my own. I have worked with one of your practitioners doing the work, named Sylvia, and it was so helpful for me. For people who are not familiar with the Work, can you share what these four powerful questions are?

The first one is to identify what you're thinking and believing anytime you feel out of sorts, for example, but to identify what you're thinking and believing and then question it. And the first question is, for example, we worked with one yesterday. He lied to me on another podcast. He lied to me. And the first question is, is it true? So be there now in that situation where, in that time and place where that person was lying to you and anchor there. It's like we're meditating in that time and place and listening and being present in it. He's lying to me. Is it true? And then you listen very carefully because the ego was at play then maybe without the ego, and we're just still in it, something else shows up. So he lied to me. Is it true? And I'm listening to his words. I'm there now in my mind's eye, is it true? Can I really know that it's true? He lied to me in that situation. Then the next question is notice in this meditative state now, notice being there now in your mind's eye. Notice how you react, what happens when you believe that thought. Then we witness ourselves. We get in touch with our emotions, we get in touch with the images in our head of past and future and of when we've been lied to. And he's going to do it again. So much shows up in it, in that process, as you know from experience. And then as you witness that, the answer is either yes or no. He lied to me. Is it true? So we're just looking for authenticity within ourselves because understanding that, that's freedom. The last question in that situation, who would you be without the thought? He lied to me. And that is not to go into denial. It's just drop it and listen. Just drop your thoughts and listen. Listen again. Look at the expression on that person's face, in touch with their feelings. Then I invite people to turn it around. He lied to me. Turned around, he told me the truth. The ego doesn't like that. And maybe the ego's right, but to really listen. He told me the truth, listened to his words, and in the safe place it's okay for me to really listen to what he said. And so often we can hear the truth, like maybe that person. Anyway, I'm making this short. And so he lied to me, told me the truth, and then another opposite. And these are to try on. It doesn't mean they're true. We're just trying it on for the situation, another turnaround. He lied to me, I lied to him. And so I meditate in that. In that situation, in my defense, when I was so indignant and angry that he lied to me and defensive, I lied to him. So now I listen. And it shows me that if something shows up where I did lie to him, that I can admit it to myself first, and then eventually, when I'm ready, I can admit it to that person, apologize for what I saw in how I reacted when I believed the thought. Maybe I punished, maybe I hurt him in some way. But I can apologize for the lie I told and make it right where I can. It's a way of life, these living turnarounds. He lied to me. So then another way of turning it around. He Lied to me. I lied to me. So to get very present in that situation, to be there now and where was I lying to me, to myself, and get in touch with that. But there is a radical shift of identity when we sit in ourselves. And this is nothing more than just a meditative process. It's an exercise in stillness that we sit in with these questions as a kind of guidance to keep us, to support us, to be in ourselves, looking for the cause of suffering. It cannot be outside of me if I'm suffering. It has to be what I'm thinking and believing and how I react out of that. This is where we murder. This is where we say things that bring guilt on. And you know, guilt is the ego's favorite food. It just nurtures it, so feeds it. So it's a process I invite everyone to. And it does take courage.

So I would love to do an example of the work right now with a thought that I had the past few days that has been bothering me. And I think it's a thought that some listeners may resonate with. So let's break it down. So the thought is, I'm annoyed that my husband won't tell me how he feels, when he feels it.

Okay, so what is the situation? When that comes to your mind, what image is in your. What is the situation?

It causes me to second guess myself and to try to get out of him how he feels, which makes me feel uneasy.

Okay, so you want him to share his true feelings with you?

Yes.

Okay, so be there now in that situation, you want him to share his true feelings with you. Now, see him in your mind's eye. Open your mind. See him in your mind's eye. You want him to share his feelings with you. Is it true?

Yes.

And how do you react? Witness how you react when you believe the thought. You want him to share his feelings with you. Notice what you say, what you do, your attitude, your facial expressions, your shoulders. Just witness how you react. What happens when you believe the thought you want him to share his feelings with you?

I attune to his micro expressions and hyper focus on him. And then start questioning him. Are you okay? Are you sure? Are you sure nothing's wrong? Will you tell me? And then he says he's fine, but I still don't feel like he's fine. So then I think, am I going crazy thinking that something's wrong? Should I believe him? But then every time, the next day he'll tell me that something was wrong but he didn't feel ready to talk about it. Yet, which frustrates me.

Yeah. So just experience. Just get in touch with what you have shared with us and be there now, in that situation, notice the effort. Notice the energy it takes to be that woman, that wife. In that situation.

Yeah. It's almost like I can't feel at ease unless I feel like we're 100% good.

So.

So I need the break. So I keep questioning him so we can get the conversation out of the way and I can move on.

Yeah. Yeah. So big effort. And in that, who would you be? Just be there now. In that situation, who would you be? Without the thought, I want him to show. To tell me his true feelings. What was it I wanted? What did you say? I want him to.

I want him to share how he feels when he's feeling it.

Okay. I want him to share what he's feeling because the others understood. Because you're in it. I want him to share with me what he's feeling. Okay. Be there. Now look at him without the thought. You've already ask him. I want you to share your true feelings. And he's already given you the answer. I mean, an answer, not the one you were looking for. He's responded, who would you be without the thought? I want him to share his true feelings with me. I want him to share his feelings with me. Hear his answer. Look at his face. Look at his back. Body language absent the thought. I want him to share his feelings with me. Just drop it and be there. Now. Who would you. Who are you? Without the thought? I want him to share his feelings with me.

After he responded, I feel like I would be someone that doesn't care. So I feel like my wanting to know his feelings is because I care about him.

So you might write down, I want him to know I care about him. But notice how you react when you believe the thought. You want him to share his true feelings with you. Look at you through his eyes. Is that someone that cares?

Yeah. He feels like he needs to sit on it for a few days, incubate on it, and then share when he's ready. But I have this fear that it will fester and turn into a big issue. So I want to get it out of the way and talk about it because of my fear that it could turn into something bigger.

Yeah. So it's really all about you and your comfort, disregarding him unintentionally. Your intentions are to get closer and everything you said, but it doesn't play out that way.

Well, my fear is that he'll never tell me and then it will turn into a huge issue down the line. So I take the responsibility of making sure we have the conversation.

So look at him. Look at you. When you're believing the thought you want him to share his true feelings with you and you're really having none of it. He responded. So look at how you react through his eyes. Look at you through his eyes.

Yeah, he is probably annoyed that I keep asking him. Feels pressured.

Okay. And let's look more closely. You look at you through your own eyes.

Yeah. I see someone who needs everything to be okay around them for them to feel at ease.

So I want him to share his true feelings with me. How would you turn that one around in that situation? I want me.

Yeah, I want me to share my true feelings with myself.

And you've really been transparent here with us. Really transparent. Can you see another turnaround? I want him to share his true feelings with me.

I don't want him to share his true feelings with me.

Okay, so just try it on. Doesn't mean it's true.

Well, I could see that because look.

At him trying to deal with you. He's responded. Look at him trying to deal with you. I don't want him to share his true feelings with me so compassionately. Why might that be true? As you?

He feels that he's not even at a place to thoughtfully speak about his feelings until he's really sat on it. So maybe if I pressured him to say how he felt before he felt ready, it would be something I didn't want to hear.

In that situation. I don't want him to share his true feelings with me. I have one. Would you like to hear it?

Sure.

I learned it from you. He's not ready. Look at him. He's not ready. And look at him. He wants to give you what you want. Obviously he loves you and he's not ready.

Yeah. Also, I'm not responsible for getting his true feelings out of him.

How could you be? They're his. And he's not willing. He's not ready. He's standing his truth. I want him to share his true feelings with me. I want me to share my true feelings with him. So what might that be with all this information?

Yeah, I've told him before, like when you don't share how you're feeling, but I can energetically feel something's off that makes me second guess myself. So can you least just tell me something's up in my mind, but I'm not ready to talk about it. And yeah, he doesn't I don't even think he does that because he doesn't realize that something's. It's almost like I realize something's bothering him before he does, but then my questioning may amplify it.

Very good. Very good. Yep. Give him a little push that he's not quite ready for. Yeah.

I feel like a lot of us who, and I know you've written about this, considered themselves to be empaths. We hyper attune to other people's feelings, and it's almost like if they don't feel okay, we can't feel okay. So it's almost like we want to just, like, band aid the problem so we can move on, but really that's our own problem.

Yeah. Yeah. We're the ones still left with it.

Yeah.

Any line within us that we cross when we try to pull something from someone else is our own line we cross. But we more often than not think, oh, it's for his own good. Or when really it's for my own good and he's got to pay the price for my insecurity, for my fear of it's going to come out later in not a good way. Yeah, it certainly is. I love these quarries so much, Sahara. And your courage, I have to say, really impresses me. This inquiry is a big ask.

Thank you. Well, I had to take the opportunity. I'm sitting with the queen herself and I know so many people in my audience have probably felt this way, whether in friendships, relationships of this hyper attunement, other people, and whether it's the world around you. And I can't feel happy until the world is at peace or a work situation. It holds us back. So I'd love for you to share a little bit. About what? About that maybe guilt that we have in our minds of, well, if I don't care, then I'm accepting it and that means it's okay.

Well, I cannot wait for the world to be free. That would be a long wait. I want the world to be free, so I'm free. But that is really going the long way around. So I work with one human being in this world, just as I worked with you. I was doing my work. It's always like that. But my work is for me to do, for me to be free. And free is. It's. It's quite a word. I. I see that everyone in the world, other than what they're thinking and believing, they're okay. When you're right with yourself, you understand. When you understand yourself, you understand the world. Like I can see someone, like really angry, let's say, and suffering in that anger. And I understand and I don't try to change their mind. My job is to love. My job is to connect. And further. If I believed what they're believing in that situation, I would be the same. So I can hold that space because I understand just what I've said. I'm free to be with human beings. How do I say it, sweetheart? It's like, it's a beautiful thing to understand that other than what people are thinking and believing, they're okay. And that you're your own example. Like in that situation, believing what you were believing, there was some, even though minor discontent, it was there. In the name of goodness, you're trying to spare him and really both of you, but in that you weren't spared. Inquiry gives us the opportunity to free ourselves after the fact. As life happens, we can always go back, just as you have demonstrated, and identify what we were thinking and believing in that situation and wake ourselves up to the cause of our own suffering and continue the practice of inquiry. And again, it is such a gift to understand that what people are thinking and believing is the only thing. It is the cause of their suffering. And that allows me not to fear their suffering.

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Can you share the story about when you were with your daughter and she was giving birth and you weren't. You guys weren't sure what was going to happen.

Yeah. When the baby came out, it wasn't taking an air, wasn't breathing, and the doctor had done everything that he could to get the baby to breathe. It was seriously not looking good to the doctor, which alarmed everyone. But to me, to my experience, my grandbaby, who is now 28, My grandbaby did not have to breathe to be my grandbaby. My grandbaby, that grandbaby was perfect in every way. It was just I that wanted him to be born in that first breath. And as soon as people around were so alarmed, but not, not me, there was my grandbaby. Oh my goodness, you know, I'm living it now, my precious. And he took a breath and then he cried. And all is well for the mother. But I don't know how long the people I love are going to live. I have no way. So I love them now and I can say and dead or alive, if you think about, like if you think of your husband right now, he's living in you. And even if he were dead now and you don't have the news, you imagine he's alive, so you're okay and it's that way. Life is a dream. That's what's meant by life is a dream. So the dream of my grandbaby dreaming. The ego's best trick is compare. So I see the baby can't breathe. And then I imagined the baby of my dreams, meaning that baby dreaming and alive and in my arms and taking him home. And all of that dream compared to the baby that can't breathe, what is the cause of my suffering? Is it that baby that can't breathe or is it my ego comparing one to the other that brings me the grief? Now, when you're awake to reality, what is real and what is imagined? And in that case, what is imagined is my grandbaby breathing. If I'm awake to that illusion, I am present with my grandchild. And that may be all I ever have of my grandchild. And I'm not going to miss one moment of it.

Such a beautiful story. And for so many of us, we feel that life should be a certain way, that your grandbaby should be alive, that he should be able to breathe. That's how life should go. No one should have to suffer that way.

And we love that. And it's a great gift. And then there's life. It offers up. And then when they're born and they knock your favorite cup off the cabinet and it shatters to pieces, you know, it's, watch what you're doing, what are you doing? And we're imagining again the cup and then the broken cup in our heads. So we compare. The ego compares. So when my grandbabies, which is they have, and my children too, drop, you know, knocked a glass off or something, I'm not going to miss how it shatters and breaks and catches the light and moves and dances and I just, I love life as it is. But comparing it all together, sitting on the shelf, you know, that's not life, that's imagination. We can say life is what a dream, what a dream if we don't love the dream. That's what this work is about. It's about the end of suffering. Freedom is our birthright. And this is Earth School and it's here to wake up to reality. And anyone with an open mind can do this work. It's. And again, it does take an open mind and courage.

So do you feel that we can live in a world with no suffering?

I just respect, you know, the illusion of time in Earth, you know, it's, everyone's free. It's about here we are with the opportunity to wake up to what we really are. And I can tell you, loving, caring, compassionate human beings, anything we think that doesn't match that feels like pain. It shows us that something's off. And it's not this world, it's what we're thinking and believing about the world. An unquestioned mind gives us a life not worth living. And that's a quote, I think, Socrates, an unquestioned life is not worth living. And certainly come to understand that to be true.

Yeah, if more people had these tools, they would be able to see their perspective from a new lens that could bring them great amount of joy and freedom without anything changing. And I think what shows up for me and my ego and probably some other people's are, well, if we just accept everything as it is, then it won't change, then we won't make improvements. How are the oceans going to stop being polluted with plastic and the Amazon stop burning and sex trafficking stop happening? If we just accept it as it Is so what is your response to that?

That would be something that would not be my experience. It's the extreme opposite. It's entirely active, but it's acting out of curiosity, met with wisdom. And it's who would I be without the thought in that situation where he lied to me? In the scenario that I offered up earlier, who would I be without the thought? He lied to me. Oh, my goodness. Everything is there in that space. Here's the short version. Every time someone sits in these questions, wisdom, they're inviting wisdom to meet the question. If we think we already have the answer, we just notice and clear the decks again. Clear the mind, ask the question again, whichever of the four questions they're on, and just allow wisdom to meet the question. And the question has to be one out of curiosity, like, is it true? It's like, is it true? Or, you know, just that internal thing, like a challenge. No, it's not like that. It takes an open mind, just a curious mind that really wants to know. And that curiosity, like, he lied to me, is it true? Or whatever you're questioning, is it true? With that curiosity and an open mind, wisdom as the answer will meet that question every time. It lives for that. It's there, it's immovable. It's just waiting for the invitation. And it doesn't require that we ask. It is just there. And we are wise. And the ego is overriding that wisdom. The ego I see as like an innocent child that is desperate for life, desperate to live this life as an object, the object we see as the physical body. I, I, I am, I am Byron, Katie. I, I, I, I, I, I think, I feel I that I anytime it is we are not at peace. Mild discontent to furious. That is a state of mind that we can identify and it shows us peace. Peace. It's a practice and stillness. A practice and stillness. But the wisdom we find once it meets the question, for example, is it true? And you're anchored, meditating in the situation we're asking, is what I'm believing true wisdom meets that. It's shown in images and a silent language and it wakes us up to reality and it affects our life and the way we treat other human beings and our, you know, we have words like patience, but that's a natural state of being. We don't even have to name it. It's natural in us, but we use those words because they give meaning. I'll go back to the ego as a terrified child, because that's all I'm talking about anyway. If you have children that are screaming and crying, unhappy, they're hungry, they're this, they're that, and you just can't handle all of them at once. I see the ego like that. It's just everywhere in our heads, just everywhere. And so on this judge your neighbor worksheet, which there are six questions on it, and I invite people just to answer those questions on the worksheet. And then it's like taking Sahara. It's like taking like all these children, the ego, and just pulling one, just the one. Like I want him to share his true feelings with me. Just pulling that child out, that thought out, and then let the other children, billions, trillions, it just doesn't matter how many you think are out there, how many thoughts, just let them know. Just let this wild child eagle know you'll get back to them. You're going to work with this one, just this one, and you'll get back to them. They get quiet, the ego gets quiet. And you can just have this love affair with this one concept, this child, this goic state of mind, and sit in those four questions and it will offer everything up. And then the next. And then all of a sudden, not only do the children get quiet, but they stay quiet, and you're just awake to reality. And there's an understanding there that you begin to treat the world and see the world the same way that you did. What? I'm using a metaphor of the children to see them like that. The ego's not going to stop and the world is not going to stop. So I think understanding, that's the power. Waking up to what is and knowing the difference between what is and what isn't by nature.

Yeah. What I'm hearing is questioning the thoughts that may make you feel fearful or anxious about the state of the world while still being an active participant in creating the world that we want to.

Make free to do it. I mean, free doesn't mean crazy. Free doesn't mean stupid. Free doesn't mean complacent. Freedom is action, and you have the energy to do it and the wisdom. And we know how to ask for help. We know when someone says no that they're not the one. And you ask a thousand other people, they say no. And you ask 1001, and that one says yes, that's the one. That's the one. But there's no tiredness in it. There's no disappointment or disillusionment in it. You just. You just keep moving out of a state of, you know, for all the right reasons. It's love, it's caring, it's sharing, involving, it's entirely active. I mean, what could stop it? What could stop a human being like that other than what they're thinking and believing that strikes fear into our hearts that could be questioned, identified and questioned. What would stop us when we stop? The head doesn't stop.

So instead of that feeling of people should care more, people should be more active just turning it back to us.

They should not. I should.

I should. Exactly.

If they are, we've got a great beginning here. A great beginning. And if we're doing it out of a sense of, of right, we're attractive. If we're doing it out of a sense of look at me and I am the only way, I'm the way and you should follow. And if you don't, there's something wrong, then we have a division just like we are experiencing in this country. I'm right, I'm right, I'm right. You know, the don't know mind is a neutral and there is no split in that. It's. There's balance there.

So what are your thoughts of diving into pain, anger, sadness, really dissecting it? You know, a lot of schools of thought are very focused on the shadow work and being there. What is your take on that? Do you feel like it creates. Creates more identification and more evidence towards that, or do you feel it's an essential part of making our way to the other side?

I just think if it disturbs me, then it's something I need to move to paper and meditate in. In other words, I need to question it.

So for example, if you're sad because a parent wasn't there for you to question, should they have been there for me?

I would write, my parent wasn't there for me. Is it true? Can I absolutely know that it's true? My parent wasn't there for me. And my ego would scream, yes, yes, it's true, and just settle down, it's okay, you know, get still, get really still. Can I absolutely know it's true? That parent wasn't there for me. My parent wasn't there for me. And if the answer is yes, you just move on to the next. If the answer is no, you just moved on to the next. We're just looking for the truth. We're not looking for the right yes or no. We're waiting for wisdom to show us. When we sit in the question, is it true? And then how do I react? What happens when I believe the thought my parent wasn't there for Me and then I just get still and and wisdom offers up and the ego offers up. It doesn't matter what we name it, how we react when we believe thought, the sadness, the self pity, the longing, the way we are envious of people whose parents are there for them as we imagine it to be. Noticing that our attention goes there every opportunity we get and then we feel bad when we compare. And then looking at the situation growing up my parent wasn't there for me. And what we see there can be radical what we accomplish without one. But the ego doesn't want us to see it. So inquiry and wisdom will offer all that up.

You may see they were there in a different way.

Oh see what's there. See what was there. That when I'm believing, you know that my parent wasn't there for me, I'm blind to what is there. It takes up all the space. That's the egos, the illusion. It's successful anytime we're in self pity. I'm not saying self pity is wrong. It's just we can identify the cause of the self pity, move it to paper, stabilize it on paper and to question it. And then they weren't there for me. Turned around they were there for me. And then to just meditate in that and see how that turnaround fits if it fits at all. And then they weren't there for me. I wasn't there for me. And then I can meditate in that and see how I wasn't there for me in those times. I was believing that someone should be there for me. We're resourceful and the ego doesn't. It really hides fact from us.

Yeah, I think it creates that freedom of you didn't live up to my expectation but who put that expectation there?

Good.

And was there ever an agreement that that parent was like you're going to be the dad from Full House. They did not know that they were supposed to be this certain role that we may have had in our minds as the idea of what we wanted that parent figure to be. However, maybe let's say they were an alcoholic or even abusive but even they may have felt they were there for you in different ways. Even an abuser sometimes thinks that's how I'm showing my love to this person which again I don't think is right or if we can even talk about right or wrong. But it does allow us to open up the possibilities for something rather than they didn't love me and that's why they did this to maybe this is actually how they Best believe to show love.

Yeah. And I have no idea what it's in another person's head. Just enough insight to understand that I can't know and to look to myself. Well, you said it so well. I don't think there's anything.

Yeah. Something that you mentioned in your book is to change through peace rather than through fear. And I think that the ego is so used to changing because it hurts so much to remain where we are that I'm burning myself again and again. So now I need to change. However we can change from that place of pure acceptance, pure peace and still continue to evolve from that place. And in fact we'll see possibilities that we wouldn't have seen if we came from that. Ouch. Reactive. The stove keeps burning me. So now I need to step away from it.

Yeah. Something beautiful. Nothing less than that. Or I need to identify what I'm thinking that would oppose it and question it.

Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for sharing all of this wisdom with us, for making it so accessible and inspiring so many. And where can listeners start to do the work and read your various books?

Well, you know that loving what is the new edition just came out and that is how to do the Work is right there. And there's a one hour Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday time I spend with people from 9 to 10 Pacific Time and thework.com and there's a 99 cent app out there where with the worksheet instructions and everything they need to bring with them is already in them. And then how to do the work is available in those places I just mentioned.

Amazing. Well, all of your books are so beautiful. I deeply, deeply love listening to them because you go through the work with so many different people in them. So it allows you to really see yourself in so many different perspectives and also. Yeah. Hear people's situations that you may not be in and think about what. What would my thoughts be in that. And. And start to question things that haven't even happened to you yet. So if they ever do occur, you've seen your way through them.

Yeah, that's so true. That's so true. And it's. Yeah, that's really. That's really powerful. Yeah, yeah. The things we fear can also be questioned.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you again for sharing your wisdom with us today.

Oh, so welcome honey. Thank you for your good work, Sahara. So much fun to sit with you and that beautiful open mind of yours.

I mean, wow, such a potent conversation. I am still just letting it all sink in. She really is such an example of someone who is like a living Buddha, just her ability to come at every situation with such fresh eyes and just really look at things without any external perspective or preferences, just to really look at it for what it is with no story attached whatsoever. It just is. And it's so rare to see that in today's world where we're so obsessed with what's your opinion and what's your belief and how do you see this and you should think this way and if you don't have a belief, then you're silencing. And to really move past that, to drop the conditioning of the human mind that wants to constantly be on anyone's side and then just to look at what is. And from that place of truth, of seeing things for how they actually are, to then take action. So I love this conversation. Be sure to get her book Loving what Is, which is now the revised edition, updated for our times. And these questions really are eternal and I hope they support you in your own journey of questioning your beliefs. So I hope you loved this conversation and I would love for you to leave a review. So please share a review with me if you're listening to this on itunes and take a screenshot of that review so I can send you a free gift as my thank you. You can email that free gift over to Sahara@iamsaharose.com Take a screenshot of your review and I will send you a free gift of my unreleased book Eat Right for your Mind Body Type, which is a deep Ayurveda book all about eating right for your dosha. So again, take a screenshot of your review and send it over to Saharaimsaharabros.com and I will send you over my free ebook. I hope you love this conversation. Share it with people that you think it may resonate with and I'll see.

You in the next one.

Namaste.

K.