444: Sacred Feminine Rage in a Post Roe v Wade Overturn World with Maya Luna

Namaste, it's Sahara Rose. And welcome back to the Highest Self podcast, a place where we discuss what makes you your soul's highest evolvement. I have been sitting with anger. Anger, an emotion that I have not totally felt comfortable with. Anger has been something that in my life has been a harmful force. I grew up with a dad who had anger management issues. So for me, I always looked at anger as something scary, something destructive, something harmful. And I never wanted to be an angry person because I saw what that did to other people. So anger was something I stayed away from. However, a few months ago, I realized that there was this deep anger within me towards the patriarchy, towards the way that our womb has been used and abused and a commodity time and time again. And with the recent News of Roe vs Wade being overturned and the way that our rights have been stripped from us, it has brought back to surface this deep, ancient anger that I am no longer afraid of. And I'm not the only one feeling this. I know this is felt in the wombs of the collective right now, not just in the US but around the world. So I wrote this poem and I'd like to start the podcast sharing this poem because really, I've been sitting with that. Poetry and art is truly the way that we can create change because it allows the vibration and the essence of the message to hit on a deeper level. So these words came through. My womb is not your commodity. She is not available to be voted on or debated about. She is sacred, ancient and holy. She is your mother and she's been abused to levels you will never understand. You cannot choose for my womb based on your mind. You will not have political discussions over her rights. You are not her master. You don't even really know her. You've never felt the ancient cries of women who've been impregnated and abandoned time and time again. You never felt the pain women have felt for a man's measly minute of pleasure. You've never felt the fear that it feels like to walk around the world with a diamond men want to possess. You haven't heard the age old screams of women who've been sentenced to a life they didn't choose. You never felt the sadness of the billions of women whose worth was based on who she could birth. You don't get to choose. You will not vote on my womb. I'm feeling the deep feminine rage that my grandmothers were not allowed to. You see, my grandmother was in a forced child marriage when she was 11 years old, and she didn't even know that that was wrong until she moved to the US in her 50s. Because that is how normalized the patriarchy is. It finds its way within your consciousness that you begin acting it out. And this is how insidious this system is. It makes us think that it's doing this out of our protection, out of our best. Good, because patriarchy knows best. The fact that we won't listen to women's stories on a woman's issue shows it all. And I know many of you right now listening to this are feeling this too, in your womb, in your heart, this deep, ancient anger that sometimes just makes you want to cry. You don't even know what to do with it. And that is why I wanted to have this conversation today with Maya Luna. So I very recently came across her work after the Roe vs Wade overturn, and I found an Instagram live that she did about feminine rage. I watched the whole thing and it just hit me. And I just loved the way that she explains rage and anger in a way that I had never heard it expressed before. So I brought her on the podcast so we could have a discussion on how we can channel this rage, sit with this rage without letting it overcome us, without being afraid of it, without directing it, misdirecting it at people, and how this anger can actually be a powerful fuel for change. So this is an episode you'll really want to sit with. I recommend being present. It is an experience. It is a transmission. She shares her poetry in this conversation as well. And right now we need to keep having this discussion. It saddens me to go online and I barely see anyone talking about it anymore. It's been less than two weeks, and I believe it's because we just don't know what to do. And I don't have the perfect solution. But I know that these conversations need to be continue to be had. And we're here to help on various levels. Some of us politically, some of us judicially, some of us within the homes, some of us within the herbal realm, some of us within the goddess realm. There are so many ways to help, physical, non physical. But we can't come to the solution to a problem that we're too afraid to even look at. So this is really the time to sit with our rage, to get to know it and see what wisdom she carries. So, without further ado, let's welcome poet and mystic Maya Luna to the Highest Self podcast. And before we get started, I have an announcement for you. The missing key to spirituality is embodiment Embodiment is the practice to be in the body. You see, we can learn so many things intellectually in the mind, but it's not until we drop into the body's wisdom that we truly receive the answers. And our body stores so much information. It stores trauma, it stores wisdom. And when we're able to dive into our body's inner knowing, able to tune into what's really going on underneath the hood of the car, and to really experience us at our truest form. So if you feel out of touch with your body or you feel really connected and you're wanting to dive deeper in a new way, I've created my goddess embodiment practice, which is a 10 minute practice you can do every single day to drop you into your divine feminine wisdom. We do hip circles and really fluid movements. Doesn't require any choreography. And you're just going to feel so, so interconnected, so juicy, so creative after. And I'm so excited to see what shows up for you on the other side. So if you want to download this practice, it is absolutely free right now. You can head over to rosegoldgoddesses.com embodiment again, that's rosegoldgoddesses.comdemodiment and you'll be able to download the practice there. And I have so many more divine feminine spiritual tips for you. You can also find that link in the show notes. And I can't wait to dance with you inside.

Welcome, Maya, to the Highest Self podcast. It's so great to have you here. The first question I would love to ask you is, what makes you your highest self?

What makes me my highest self is the radical courage and freedom that is willing to walk the razor's edge in every single moment and free fall, not knowing what's coming next next. Nothing to lose, nothing to prove. Absolute embodied present moment. Trust.

Yes.

So beautiful.

Whenever we tune in to the womb, she just knows.

Yeah. Yes.

I recently found your work around just the collective anger that myself and so many have been feeling with the overturn of Roe vs Wade and just all of the undercurrents around. Not. I think this is just like, really like the tip of the iceberg around this deeper collective rage that I have felt into in the past before. And we can talk more about that. But I feel like overall with the feminine there has been this like, disdain of our rage of like anger is, is bad. People who are angry are irrational. They're out of touch with their emotions. And also I think a lot of us have been, in a way, victims to male anger. You know, like myself, my dad was. Had really bad anger issues. So for me, when I saw an angry person, I saw an erratic person, a violent person, a person I would not want to be like, yes, there wasn't. It wasn't safe. There wasn't room for both of us to be angry. If he's the angry one, I can't be the angry one. So I think a lot of us have felt that before. So how can we tune into our rage, our anger, when there is this just like internal, maybe like compass, don't go there. That's not safe territory that we start to move in that direction.

Absolutely. Oh, my gosh. There's so much to say here. The first thing that I'll say is that it's really important that we separate the difference between acting out behaviors of anger, which is what we usually think of anger being. So it's yelling, it's shouting, it's saying mean things. It's aggression, it's bullying, it's violence, it's abusive. Right? So there's a difference between the action and the behavior of anger. Even engaging the behavior and action of anger in a healthy way. There's a difference between the action and the behavior and the inner energetic state. Anger is life force. It's shakti. It's passionate red blood. I call it, like the lifeblood of the goddess. It is powerful, potent, passionate energy. And there is a lot that we can do with anger on an internal level. That can be healing, actually. That can infuse us with the ferocity to stand our truth, to set boundaries, to infuse our activism. But it begins within, right? It begins deeper than I think most of us have ever gone with anger. Right. I make a lot of comparisons between, you know, sacred sexuality. And so sexuality and Eros is another passionate energy, right? That's another red, passionate energy. It's embodied, right? It's the goddess. And we all have seen the way that sexuality has been distorted for so long, right? This idea that we can be present with our sexuality, that we can be devotional, reverent, embodied, conscious that we can regard this energy as sacred and respect it. We can do the same thing with anger.

So I heard you speak once about how sometimes when we talk about channeling our anger, it's always this very cathartic prayer of, you know, punch pillows or go to a break room and scream and shout and let it out.

Right.

And you have a different more about this?

I do, I do. Well, I want to go back to something that you asked initially Actually, before I go into that, which is this way, that as women especially, we have been really dissociated from our anger. Most women don't have a strong connection to their anger. Right. And that's because femininity, the way that we're conditioned as females, as girls, is basically to just never be angry. It's to be sweet, to be nice, to be pleasing, to certainly never be angry. And this is what I call toxic femininity conditioning. So just like men through toxic masculinity conditioning, are conditioned to never feel their pain, to never feel their grief, women are conditioned to disavow and not feel or express our anger, which creates so many problems in women's lives. You know, our capacity to say no, our capacity to defend ourselves, to advocate for ourselves, to protect our bodies. I think a lot of autoimmune disorders that women have come from this suppressed anger. And so the catharsis thing, yes, you're right. Most healing, personal self development models, if you're going to do anger work, it's catharsis, right? Get it all out. What I think generally, women in particular need more than anything is the ability to sustain and hold the charge of that anger. Ferocity, fight, response, to not dissipate it, to not get rid of it, but to have access to it because we need it. We need anger just like we need any other emotion. And I think that catharsis can blow out our nervous system. I think it can be overwhelming. I think for a lot of us, we go into catharsis and then we just start to cry, because we know how to cry. We're good at crying. We're good at feeling hurt, we're good at feeling grief. We need to actually go slower with our anger. We need it to be safe. We need to titrate it in a way so that we can hold it sustainably. Right. With power to stay in the power side of anger. So a lot of women experience their anger as a state of powerlessness. And that's part of the issue too. So when we cathartic, usually we're taking on way more than we can actually sustainably hold.

And I think it comes back to how we view anger. Like most of us have been raised that anger is a toxic energy and you want to get it out. That's right. And what I love that you share is like, really anger, just like eros, just like any energy is something that you can hold onto and let it simmer and build up. And it doesn't need to be this like instant, quick orgasm. That you, like move away from it can. Yeah, you're holding onto. That's like channeling you to like stand up like the divine mother for her children or from, you know, what's happening in the world right now. And I feel that so many of us, especially with just collective issues, whether it's, you know, women's reproductive rights, but really everything that's been going on, it almost feels hopeless to have anger, you know that it's just like, well, angry. Like I don't even know who to be angry at and what to do about it. So I'm just not going to go there. So what do you have to say around like that overall hopelessness that people feel?

Yeah, so I would say that this is another kind of different paradigm around anger than much of what we have been conditioned into, which is that staying angry is actually incredibly. It can be incredibly clarifying because it's a very clear no to untruth. It's a very clear no to distortion. It's a very clear. I don't align with that, I don't resonate with that. No. Right. And it isn't necessarily as attached to getting the object of anger to change, which is how we also generally think of anger. Right. It's like, I'm just going to be angry because I need you to change and be different. And so the hopelessness is, well, what if it never changes? What if we can't get it? What if it just stays like this? Well, my anger keeps me very clear that I am a no to this, that it's not okay with me. So it's a frequency and it's a clarifying frequency actually. And it's part of our power is the thing, you know, our anger and our ferocity and our capacity to say no with that kind of ferocity is part of our power. And it's necessary. It's a necessary part of our power. People talk about, like you said, you know, especially I say this when I teach women, you know, if you're a woman and you've gotten the femininity conditioning, you've gotten the anti anger training through that. But if you're a spiritual woman and a conscious woman, right, because spirituality is very anti anger too. You've gotten kind of the double dose, right? You've gotten the double dose of anti anger training. And I think it's a really big problem. We talk a lot about how anger can be toxic, which it can, it absolutely can, but so can disavowing our anger, rejecting our anger, not having access.

To our Anger, it prolongs the very situation that you're angry about. Like, I think of someone who's in a relationship that is not serving them, maybe is even abusive, and they might not let themselves get angry because they think, you know, this poor guy, he has trauma from his childhood and, you know, maybe I'll just cope with it and maybe he'll change. And it's the not letting yourself get angry that's keeping you in that situation for longer.

That's right. That's right. Being nice and accepting can have toxic consequences sometimes.

And I love something you said, that along the lines of anger is the natural and healthy response to abuse.

That's right.

And I think that a lot of us have just been gaslighting ourselves, you know, even with just what's happening politically, collectively of, you know what, and especially spiritual people, of, let's take the high road. Let's focus on what we do have control over. And I love how we put a positive spin on things and like, yes, we have herbs, but is that the solution to our rights being taken away? Like, the next thing they might say is, you know what? There's going to be no more gay and interracial marriage. What are we going to say? You know what? Marriage is just made up piece of paper. You don't need that anyways. Like, where are we going to draw the lines? And I think that sometimes spirituality can be used as a. As a tool to keep us numb and to keep us complacent. And if there are any powers that be. What a perfect design. You know, like we can do anything and pass any laws and they'll find some spiritual reason why this is happening instead of standing up and doing something. And that's why the Woman of Mexico inspired me. Yeah. Similar law was passed there, and they hit the streets and threatened to burn down the prime minister's house. And within 30 days, abortion was decriminalized.

That's right. That's right. I mean, this is where I think we need to really be aware of the way that the attitude of patriarchy has infiltrated a lot of our spirituality. And that patriarchal attitude of, you know, to just transcend the problems of the world, to just stay positive, to stay neutral, to stay detached, don't get involved. Right. One could say that the, you know, that's a very mountaintop masculine, you know, detached from the sacred world of immanence and relationality, and that it's actually deeply spiritual and it's a spirituality of the mother and of the divine feminine to roar for the protection of life, for the protection of what is good and sacred. You know, don't poison my oceans. Don't cut down my tree. Don't take away the human rights of my children. That's love. That's love. And that is spiritual.

Yes. And exactly what you said, that so much of the spirituality that we're taught was created by men for men, and specifically for men who are on an aesthetic monkhood path, not for the householder. So for that person who would want to go into the cave in the Himalayas and just be in complete nothingness or. You know. And a lot of these texts, too, have changed over time. Like, I've actually been diving into Sufism, because how I've learned Sufism is it's very still, in a way, very patriarchal. It's the man. And I've learned that because the feminine has been wiped out of it. We don't. We're not taught that pathway of it anymore. So because the feminine has been wiped out of basically every single spiritual lineage, we're left with the masculine. And we think that's what spirituality is. For me to meditate, to feel nothing, to be neutral. And if I'm reacting, it must be because I'm low vibration. I gotta read more Alan Watts. And it's like, that's a pathway, but, like, that's not my pathway.

Yeah, that's a big one. In the kind of New Age spirituality. I mean, what most of us just think of as spirituality is that the goal is to be calm and neutral. Right. Where the goal is to be calm and neutral and to never be upset. Right. And if you're upset, then that's your ego. And if we are really wanting to be embodied and be here as embodied human beings, as mammals, as relational creatures, as creatures of the earth, as creatures with attachment systems, we're going to have feelings. And those feelings are sacred. Those feelings matter, actually.

Absolutely. And I think that so many of us, especially women, have disassociated from that on our spiritual growth journeys and have seen that as our lower selves. But it's actually our human self, and we're here on this human planet in this physical body for a reason.

Yeah. Well, this is a rabbit hole that I'm sure we're not going to go all the way into in this call. But when I have really sat and contemplated this and really done my own profound, deep inner work to untangle myself from these patriarchal attitudes, what I think, at least in part is going on is that because there has been so much abuse by Spiritual teachers and spiritual gurus. I mean, really, it's a thing that. Part of the abuse matrix. And here's where we see the connection of anger and abuse again, right? Part of the abuse matrix and to continuously enable the abuse is to tell you to never be upset. Never be upset. Be calm and be accepting of everything. And if you are upset, it's nothing I'm doing. It's your problem. It's your projection. Something going on with you. I think that there is a way that this teaching has been generated by abusive spiritual teachers and abusive gurus because there's been so many. There's been so many. So again, systems of oppression always seek to pathologize the anger of the oppressed. Always. That's why the anger of women is generally seen as crazy and hysterical. The anger of people of color is generally seen as dangerous. White male anger is generally seen as respectable, authoritative. So that's a big piece.

Anger is an instant discredit. And there has been a huge amount of abuse and manipulation by males. Spiritual. I put in quotes, because they truly are not embodying that at all. And. And it's hard because it's like, yes, from a perspective, our triggers are coming from within us. And like, there's an element of truth to that. But the way that it can be used is, like, as how a narcissist would use it. Of it's all over your head.

That's right.

You're the one who's getting angry. Look at how hysterical you are. Wow, you need a lot of work. And then it loops you back in.

Exactly. Exactly. Yes, There is a truth that our triggers can be our own childhood wounding and our own past stuff, our own projections. And if someone is mistreating us, if someone is lying to us, manipulating us, taking away our rights, invading us, abusing us, Anger is the healthy response of my system saying, no. Fuck no. Right? Like, this is wolf, wolf mama wisdom.

And when you sit with the anger, rather than it needing to be this, like, volcano that suddenly goes through, but it doesn't need to feel so heavy. I think a lot of us were, like, afraid of feeling angry. We're tired of feeling angry. It's like it feels too heavy to go there. So I'm just not going to. So how can we let the anger be this, like, simmering pot? That's also like. We also have a simmering pot of joy, too, and a simmering pot of, like, other things going on at the same time.

I love that. I mean, the first thing that I'll Say is yes, I feel anger a lot, like throughout my day, particularly because I enjoy anger. I find it pleasurable, I find it feeling fierce, I find it ferocious. I find it nourishing. I find it clarifies me with what I believe in, what I care about, what I stand for. And I also feel delight and joy and play and ease and you know, at the same time, how do we do that? That's a really interesting question. I mean, to me it always comes back to the body. It always comes back to the body. If you just get curious the next time you get angry and you close your eyes and you maybe even say the words out loud, I'm angry. So it's just to yourself, your safe space, your altar, your candle, right? I'm angry. I'm angry. And you feel the sensations in your body, right? You notice where that sensation is and then you start to play with it just as aliveness, as shakti. The same way you would play with, you know, sensual energy or any kind of aliveness. And you stay with it and you open to it and you breathe into it and you really stay with the body. With the body. I think anger is naturally so life giving. I think a lot of our negative associations with anger are just, to be honest with you, the ways that we reject it and deny it. As soon as we start to just say yes to it on a really simple, immediate level, it starts to become pleasurable. It's ferocious. It's my own, my own life force and clarity of what I care about. Anger shows us what we care about. And there's an incredible amount of self love and self protection. I think that women have been so conditioned to take care of other people before ourselves, right? So it's like if you hurt me or you cross my boundaries or you betray me or you mistreat me, I'll just take care of you anyways. Because love, because that's what I do, because it's fine, it's fine, I'll be fine. I think that that impacts women in so many ways. It sort of like accumulates over time, right? All these little ways that we've self betrayed, that we haven't respected ourselves, that we haven't honored ourselves. And so that anger that we start to allow has self love infused in it, like genuinely, it has love inside of it. And that's a beautiful thing.

Yes, yes. The times that I've been angry and I've sat with it, it's. I come back to the same thing. I'm angry because I care. And how beautiful Is that to care, like, if I wasn't angry, then I. I don't care. And that tragedy totally.

I'm angry because I care about something which is my passionate heart for justice, for truth, for what is right, for what is good. Or I'm angry because I love myself. I love myself. It's that, that subtle wiring that women have to caretake other and take care of other before ourselves. Anger says, I come first, I matter first. I love myself first. And that's, that's a beautiful, lovely thing to experience.

So what shows up for me when you say that? And I think it's like the feminine conditioning is like having a narcissistic, angry dad who the anger was about him first, without any amount of empathy for anyone else. I never want to be that. So that makes me never want to be angry. And I think a lot of people have that of like, I don't want to be that person who, who doesn't realize how they're hurting people because it's only about them. How do we confront that part of ourselves?

Well, I think you just have to be really honest. Like, are you a person that uses anger? Because what abusive people do is they use fake anger. It's not actually anger. They're not actually angry. They pretend to be angry. They generate the experience of anger to belittle you, to intimidate you, to bully you, to put you down, to put themselves over you. Do you do that? Is that what you're motivated by? If so, then like, yeah, you definitely need to get some support around that. For most people, that is not the case. So I think it's just a matter of honest self inquiry.

I think a lot of women, especially in the more codependent empath seat, are so never wanting to be the narcissist. I never want to be the abuser. So they go the polar opposite. And even like inching towards feeling anger feels like, well, what if I just become like them? So let me just totally stay away.

Right. Well, I think again, this is where we have to be really clear about the difference between behavioral anger and the inner experience of anger. So I might be really, really angry at someone. And because I'm devoted to my anger practice, because I'm devoted to saying yes and being honest with my anger, because I know that my anger is good and wise and loving and healthy, I'm going to sit and I'm going to in an embodied way, like really say yes. I'm going to fill up and I'm going to let that fraud. Then when I talk to them, I might be totally just neutral. Right? I might be totally. There's a level of discernment there. So again, we think that it's about behavior. It's not, it's not about behavior. We have to be really discerning with who we actually engage that expression of anger with. And typically what I've found is that it's either people that we have have a safe consensual agreement with where it's like, yeah, we go there together because we've built safety and we've built trust and that's something that we do in our relationship. Right. I hold space for you to like unleash your anger at me sometimes and that's part of our relationship. Or it's a situation where I need to do this for the well being of my soul. And it might not look pretty and it might not look clean and it might not look, you know, like the perfect NVC communication style. But I need to do this for me. Think about like the riots. That's a perfect example that the riots were not like this appropriate, mature NVC way of expressing anger. But was it a completely appropriate response? Absolutely. That's a collective social nervous system responding to abuse. That's the fight response in a collective social nervous system saying no, that's what happens when there's a riot. It's a collective fight response in the nervous system. And that can be necessary sometimes.

Yeah. I think that having that awareness, especially if you have a partner, like you can't, your anger is going to show up eventually at some, some point or a really close friendship. You know, like sometimes there's an initiation into the deepening of the friendship of like, can you hold me in my anger with you? And sometimes that person is not, you know, and the relationship might dissolve. Sometimes there's conflict and disagreement and the person's just like, no, I am not willing to hold that. And then it's like, okay, then you've reached the level of depth that you can go to together.

That's right, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Conflict is typically like a turning point in intimacy, isn't it? It's where we kind of. We either make it and we go deeper or we start to dissolve. Yeah, that's very true.

So when do you know when or if you should share, let's say your anger is around to a person. How do you know when or if you should share that versus doing your own inner work around it?

Well, I might share it, but I'm not going to express it in a way I'M not going to like, get angry at them. Right. I might explain it myself in a really calm way, but inside I'm holding the frequency. Right. I'm allowing the embodied experience of my anger as I speak. I think the choice has to do with discernment. It has to do with. And here's the other thing, right? It's like, I think sometimes women are like, well, my anger like explodes sometimes, you know, and it's really bad and it scares me and I hurt my partner or I hurt my kids or. Right. And then to them that's like, well, you know, I have anger issues. I need to, you know, I need to get less angry. And I think unless it's a person with an abusive structure, which I already described, which most people are not, that, that those explosions of anger are also an indication of having suppressed anger. If we don't have a sustainable, regular relationship to our anger where we're not letting the bucket fill up and feel, fill up and fill up subconsciously and stuffing it and stuffing it, we're tending to it as it's happening all the time. I don't think it has to explode in that way. Those explosions are the result of suppression. We've been holding it and holding it and holding it and holding it and we don't have to do that. We get to be allowed to have anger. For a lot of women, they don't even know that that's true.

Yes, absolutely. Those explosions that I've always witnessed from my father is because he's never allowed himself to really sit with why he's angry and what's underneath it all. So it would just be this, like boiling water that, like, you just put a little bit too much heat on it and it would explode. But like, that water was always simmering. It was kind of just waiting for something to tip it off, to let out some steam. You know, really, that water needed to, like, be poured and poured and sat with and.

Right.

For someone like that, that does have a lot of suppressed anger, would you recommend cathartic rage rituals for them or more just questioning the anger? Like, what does that mean?

So again, like, for me, it always is about the body. So when we start to really feel and experience and allow the feeling, felt sensation of the shakti, the life force of anger. So this is where we have to get out of the patriarchal mindset that anger is bad or that we know what anger is here for anger. If we think of anger as literal shakti, as life force, as life force energy, it already has wisdom Inside of already has consciousness inside of already has intelligence inside of it. And so this is what I mean. Like let's say I'm angry at a friend. We don't have the kind of relationship where it feels safe or wise for me to really express my anger. I'm going to sit and do my embodiment practices to really allow how angry I am at them and how angry I am at the situation. And that alone is going to influence infuse how I speak so I don't have to figure it out. Right? This is the power of embodiment when this is the power of the feminine, right? Because the feminine is the body, feminine is the those deeper currents of intelligence, deeper than our mind. So huge difference between let me journal and figure out like what to say, to say it the right way, versus let me get in touch with my body and allow my body to develop a relationship with my anger. That's really what this is about is maturing our relationship to anger. If my body and my heart has a mature relationship to my anger, mature meaning I'm willing to go there with myself, right? And I'm willing to develop it, then that's going to accept express in more intelligent ways when I need to express it with me.

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Off.

I was on this kick for a while two years ago of like journaling every day. And then I was just like, do I like for me personally, who spends a lot of time writing, I'm like, do I need to sit down and write and intellectualize my thoughts? More like. And I realized I am personally eating more of it instead, I've moved it into breath, work and dance and feeling. When else am I going to give myself that chance to just like, be with it rather than putting into words and understanding it? And where did I come from? And it's just like instantly I wake up and I'm in the mind, you know?

Totally. I love that. Yes. And this is all part of that shift, which I know you and so many of your friends and listeners are care about, right? That shift into the divine feminine. We've been so patriarchally focused on the mind and on objectifying our experience, objectifying our body, objectifying our emotions, dominating, controlling, understand, rather than getting inside of her, you know, on her own terms, for her own sake, what if this anger is totally irrational? That's fine. What if I stay and I dance with her and I sing with her and I growl with her, I feel her and I let her infuse my body? Can I trust her? Can I trust that that's going to bless me and bless my life? Because it's the goddess, it's shakti, it's life force. It's my life arising, it's my experience arising. I think it's very trustworthy when we're willing to, again, just like sacred sexuality, when we're willing to be with the energy in a devotional way that's really present and really curious, I think that's when the maturity starts to happen.

So, yes to all of that. And I would love for you to share about the Dark Goddess.

Oh, the Dark Goddess. Who is she?

Tell us about her.

Oh, my gosh. Who is the Dark Goddess? There's so many different ways to answer that question. You know, I feel like what's maybe most potent to say right now, if we want to circle it all in with, you know, Roe v. Wade and everything that's happening is that woman's body. And this is partly why, I think many of us that are goddess devotees and devotees of the feminine have felt this on such a visceral level, because it's not just a war on women's bodies and Women as human beings with human rights, it's a very ancient war on the goddess. So woman's body, body of woman is a perfect symbolic metaphor for the goddess and the feminine. Right. We have the ability to take the formless soul, spirit down into matter. You know, we have the ability to. I mean, that's pretty incredible when you think about it. You know, this process of. It's not just growing a body, growing a life, it's taking a soul into form and incarnation. But life is not just the light. Life is not just birth. Life is also death. Right. And our bodies are also, you know, the place of menstruation and miscarriage and abortion and death that we carry. This incredible. Our wounds and our sex are these portals in between the worlds where life and death happens.

Right.

Dark goddess is just the other side. You know, it's the other side of the true deep nature of what reality is that is also sacred, that is also holy. We have a big issue with her in patriarchy. We want to see the feminine as a light mother, Mary Kuan Yin. Right. The gentle, accepting, loving. Right. And you can see how this ties in with the conversations on women's rights to their own bodies because we are actually doulas of the life, death, bridge. And that is part of the sacred design of woman, and that is part of the goddess. That's why the goddess worshipers were also midwives. They were doulas. They were tending to the bodies of women. The fixation on only the light feminine and the light side of reality is very much part of patriarchy because creation and existence is the wholeness of them.

And you have a poem about this?

Yes, I do. Should I read it? Yes.

Share it with us.

All right, I will share it. So when I first heard that Roe v. Wade was possibly going to be overturned, I was just feeling into this ancient, you know, the Christian crusades that burned the witches who were goddess devotees, tending to the body of woman, tending to this ancient sacred rite of womb pregnancy and miscarriage and abortion. So this poem came through. I think before I read it, I want to also share that. You know, I wrote this poem and then a day or two later I found out that some of the 17th century writing that they were quoting to prove that Roe was unconstitutional and overturn it. Did you hear about this? They're quoting actual witch burners. Judge Alito was quoting Matthew Hale, I believe is his name. These are, you know, guys back in the day that saw women as evil and dangerous and quoting their views on women and women's Rights and abortion in order to, you know, come up with a good plan for how we should regard women today. So it's all very deep and very connected. All right. Those witches they burned were gynecologists, midwife, doula, abortionist, miscarriage, tender pregnancy preventer, medicine, carrier, potion, bottle, herb and womb. The ones who knew that secret incantation. The mysteries of the blood, of incarnation. Body of woman, most ancient temple, original church, the first place of worship and reverence. Body of woman, bridge between spirit and matter, pulling souls down to earth, stitching divine into flesh. Body of woman, that swelling of tide that sheds and dies, grows and births, feeds life and kills life right between between her thighs. Body of woman, turning cycles with the moon. Endless throb of creation, portal between the two worlds. Is it any wonder that those witches they burned for tending to this temple of relentless power and aching divinity were also devotees of the goddess? Goddess of moon, goddess of snake, goddess of earth and dirt, booming your orgasming birth, screaming love into being and singing us all to our death. Radical realm of impermanence, incarnation and imminence. Snake sheds skin, moon sheds skin, womb sheds skin. All matter sheds skin as it blossoms, blooms and dies. Matter, which means mother. Mother of life. We have visioned you only in the light, generous, self sacrificing face of the feminine. Sweet, gentle mother of yes, we have tried to banish your other face. Mother of death, dark mother of destruction, miscarriage, menstruation and even abortion. We forgot. A good mother knows when to say no. We forgot to bow our heads low to the sacred act of letting go. Body of woman, we fear what you know about existence. But the witches knew and the midwives knew how to anoint that round bellied one who is both light and dark, life and death, who churns time, who both gives and takes away. They've tried to break our backs, to bow for 5,000 years. To worship the idols of transcendence and forsake the sacred imminent to repent our sins to the Father for forgiveness. Who say they are pro life, yet know nothing of the vital mysteries of creation. Body of woman, you are the place they cannot wash out. You are the terrifying reminder of everything we wish to forget. Body of woman, sanctuary of beginnings, Fertile ground of sacred endings. You are the whole truth of the nature of reality. You are holy darkness, bleeding into holy light. Body of woman, whose power is beyond all power, whose power has been envied, scorned, hated, vilified, demonized, tortured and traumatized. Body of woman, you are the soft, pink and tender place where violence and war has been waged, where the religion of unfathomable love became the place of abominable domination. Body of woman, your body has been made not your own. Body of woman, they tried to take the goddess out of you. Body of woman, bridge between spirit and matter, vessel of the two worlds, holy portal of life and death. Forgive us, mother, for we know not what we do.

Wow. Took me a moment to take that all in. I had chills.

Stirring so many hearts. That's a big part. Thank you for your words and your.

Ability to just like put this essence that we're all feeling into a vibration that can be shared. It's. And when you, when you said something, I just never heard it been said like this before. But a good mother knows when to say no.

That's right. That's right. And that brings us right back to sacred anger. Because anger usually is a no. It's a no. And women have been really conditioned to never say no.

And I think a lot of women hold guilt around their abortions, around. That must make me a bad mother unable to be a mother. And it was interesting to know that at least 60% of people who have had abortions are already mothers who just know that right now is not the time. It's not allowing them to be the best mothers they can be for their children who are already here. So I mean, you just saying that for so many listening can just feel like this, like you didn't do anything wrong.

That's right. Yeah. This is the patriarchalized vision of the mother and the divine feminine right as just endlessly martyring and self sacrificing and endlessly. Yes. And we need to trust women and that ancient intelligence that knows, that knows how to be the bridge that knows when to say yes and when to say no. And this, I think what's happening right now is, is a big energetic silencing. And I think women need to be honest about the anger that might be arising in the face of that level of disrespect. Because it's a huge disrespect. I loved the poem that you wrote about it too, actually. You know, it's like, like you have no idea, you have no idea what this is like to hold and carry this, this. Whoa. This reality. You don't get to decide with your mind.

Thank you for that. It saddens me. I saw this video yesterday by this very popular comedian who is very pro choice when it comes to mandates and certain issues and very not pro choice on this issue. I was Curious to see this person's perspective. He said that abortion is evil. It's the most evil thing that you can do. And it reminds me of the people who burned the witches. It's not about you, woman. It's not about how you feel. You caring about. You caring about your rights. That's pure evil, satanic. There's an agenda behind that. And then all of just like the manipulation and you know, it's just been so interesting to witness A lot of the spiritual community, I feel because of the past two years has shifted more right leaning because it's be the right has been more pro choice on certain topics. But then now seeing them take it on this anti choice on this topic it has been. Because I don't call that pro life. It's anti choice. And it's just been so interesting to witness because it's like. And I think that within every death, like you said, there is an opportunity for a birth, for a new system where it's like, where do we stand? Neither side.

Yeah. I mean there's so much here, I think that we have to really look at how we view women and the deeply embedded misogyny of our views of woman as a sacrificial martyr object. Right. That a tiny zygote would be more important that a woman, regardless of, of the harm to her life, to that being's life, regardless of the pain and the suffering and the trauma or the death. I mean we know that pregnant. The leading cause of death for pregnant women is homicide, murder, the leading cause of death in America, pregnant women is homicide. That we would continuously view woman as a sacrificial object and martyr rather than a sovereign human being with her own life, with her own body, with her own reality that matters. And I think again, just like in the poem, this is what I'll say. I haven't said this anywhere publicly yet and I haven't seen anyone else talk about it, but it feels important. I think that there is a truth to the reality of the death that abortion is, no matter how early on it is. And I think that we need to respect that death as a sacred death. You know, I think that's part of the thing is it's like, oh, it's a death, so it's wrong. Or like, no, it's not a death because it doesn't matter because it's not really anything. What if it actually is a thing that matters? What if it actually is a death? And what if that death is sacred and holy and something that we can create respect and reverence and ritual. Of course, this is not really the issue. I don't think. I don't think the people pressing these laws are doing so because they are concerned about. Like you said, they're not pro life. Right? They're not. If they were pro life, they would be in service to life in a true way, real way. And that's the kind of narcissistic gaslighting is that abortion can absolutely be in service to life. Right. In true service to life. It's about something else. And it's an ancient war. It's an ancient war on the goddess, and it's an ancient war on the fertility goddess. It's an ancient war of the patriarchy on woman, on the body of woman. And I'm the goddess. And so it matters. It matters. Even if it doesn't personally affect you, it matters. And I think our anger is very, very ancient here. Very, very, very ancient. And something to embrace regardless of what happens. Because it's true.

Exactly. And I think the anger, it, for me, it came down to like even just the act of sex, right? How a man's pleasure, even for like one minute, you know, can cause so much pain for this. And, you know, even in like different sexual acts. Let's talk about a blowjob, deep throating, even that can be like, your pleasure is my pain. And for so many women, like, penetration is painful for them. Your pleasure is my pain. And that theme over and over and over again, that I've sat with that even far before this and just how deep that is and how much we mutilate ourselves through plastic surgery and even taking birth control pills, we're like, yeah, it probably can give me cancer, but I gotta make sure you feel good all the time. And it's that constant being the martyr for a man's pleasure.

That's right. And again, femininity, programming, not self advocating, not saying no, not setting boundaries, not creating limits. Right. Just kind of going along with.

Because of that fear of the abandonment that might happen on the other side, which is the other deep wound I've tuned into, of the impregnation and abandonment that has happened time and time again, of the baby becomes the woman's problem, even that this is a woman's issue. Like, why is this? How many men have benefited from abortions?

That's right. Yes. And the fact that men cause pregnancy. Yeah. We're very, very programmed to see women's reproduction as something that you just suffer because of. You just suffer. And that's like some old school, old Testament stuff, right? Like kicked out of the Garden of Eden. Eve has to, you know, suffer through her pregnancies and through the. You know, it's. It's deep. It's deep that we expect women to experience suffering and pain around their reproduction, that we expect women to be controlled by and less free because of their reproduction. That's why having access to sin. Let's. Let's be real again. And we know this, but we didn't stop abortion. We prevented safe abortions from happening. We didn't stop abortion. We'll never stop abortion. Women will have abortions forever. What we did was we took safe abortion away from many, many women. And that's fucked up, and that's wrong. And that's something to be really angry about.

And I'm sure right now every person listening to this can feel that anger that's moving through their system. And they're like, so what do I do? What can we do? Is there something to do? What's the practice now?

I think that my experience has been like, everyone is kind of still getting their bearings. Like, there was shock, actually. There was a lot of shock. I think that as we come out of the shock and come grounded, I think the most powerful thing that women can do right now, honestly, is stay angry. Stay angry because this goes so deep. This is every violation that every woman has ever experienced on her sovereignty and her body. This is every violation of her boundaries. This is every violation of her sex. This is. This is every violation of her innocence that a woman has ever experienced. And this anger is holy. This anger is holy. And I think that when we stay with it, we can allow it to infuse our actions if we encourage it in each other and stop shutting other women down. Stop shutting other women down. I think there's multiple levels. There's politically, there's voting, there's. There's creating allyships with people that are tending to this on a community level. Right? Especially poor communities. There is the spiritual and multidimensional level, which is a stand for the Goddess and the divine feminine. Like, really, this rage is holy. This rage is on behalf of her and she who has sends vilified by this same patriarchal. This, I'm just gonna say, like, fake Christianity. That's what I'm gonna call it. Misogynistic Christianity has been the enemy of the Goddess for a very long time. So stay with the frequency. And I think that it shows you. It shows you. It shows you. Just like you would do any other divination or sacred spiritual practice. Or yoga or stay with this. Let it rise up from the ground. Let it rise up volcanic. Stay with it. This is her. This is her love. Let anger become a spiritual practice. How about that?

Absolutely. I think Covid caused us to finally sit with mental health and loneliness and these different topics that maybe this will collectively invite all of us and especially the woman to sit with their angels and to not be so afraid of it or combating against it. It's been so beautiful to witness. I saw this 11 year old girl at a protest and she was really nervous to get on the microphone and speak to everyone and she just got on and she spoke so beautifully from the heart. Just like, like, what would I do if, you know, mistakes happen, rape happens, all these things happen. Like, what would I do? And just to feel this like young girl but like so connected to the collective devastation.

Wow.

And I think so many of us just, we won't let ourselves go there. It's too much, you know, it channels in so many beautiful ways from the people protesting. Which by the way, I shared with you, I was like looking on Twitter, I was like, I wonder like, what are the hashtags for this movement? Nothing. There was zero hashtag around it. I'm like, there definitely are people protesting, but I'm not seeing it on the news, I'm not seeing it on tv. It's. It's being hidden. So the only place I see it is TikTok. Just because users are putting it up. So it's, I think we don't know. And we feel so alone because they're making us feel so alone. Because then when you feel like what am I going to do? My hands are up. And especially the women are the ones who are holding their families who are holding everything together, like the single mother, especially the backbone of our society that they wear you down so much. So you have no energy to fight, you have no energy to be angry. So just to be able to hold onto that and to know that you're not alone. And that's why I think circle is so needed for communities to get together of how are we going to channel this in our states? Because now it's not lost cause now the states have the power. So we need all the conscious communities moved to Austin, Texas for the freedom. We need you loud talking about freedom on this issue as well.

Yeah. I mean, sex protest, Is anyone talking about that yet? I think, you know, one thing that I'm feeling arising in my own space and I actually wrote a post about it yesterday on Facebook and like A thousand people liked it. And I was like, okay, I think that someone, I think this is tapping a nerve. And it's basically like since Roe happened, I've just spend feeling this energy in my personal life of deep, deep, deep boundary around. You may not take from me. If you want to be in my space for anyone, not just men, anyone, but maybe particularly men. If you want to be in my space, you need to contribute to my life, you need to add to my life. You need to, you need to be, yeah, contributing something of real deep value that benefits me and serves my well being and my health and my flowering. And if you don't leave me alone, you know, And I think that there's something around that that's really wanting to come through with the feminine right now. It's like if we are really devotees of the Goddess, if we are really her daughter, if we are really wanting to stand for the divine feminine and we know the profound connection between again, body of woman, bridge between spirit and matter, immanence, incarnation, the way that this, our bodies are walking symbols of her. It might be time to up our standards in a profound way because this is such a disrespectful. It doesn't matter what state you're in, we're so enmeshed with the political field. You can't not be if you live here. I mean, people in all over the world are feeling it who don't even live here, you know, like it's a message. It's not just a practical concern, it's a message. And so our message back, I think can and should be double down on your standards and your requirements, right. For who you allow in your space and how you allow them to treat you. Require stand for the Goddess by requiring that your life be fed and not just taken from that. No one is entitled to take from you, no one is entitled to consume and feed off of you. Stand for your worth. I think that's it.

So let's say someone has a partner or they're dating someone and these men may say, you know what, Like, I don't believe in abortion. Like, how can women right now who are in these situations stand up if.

Their partner is partner people they're dating? I can't imagine. Do you have an answer, Mindy?

You don't have an answer? Divorce. I see a lot of women are in relationships with men who are on a very different journey, you know, and they may have this deep love, but see very differently politically.

Right.

But on something like this, to me it brings up there's just a lack of respect. It's a respect issue. But it's. And it's like, yes, you can try to educate, but, yeah, to me, it would feel like, like the poem I wrote. It's like, I cannot debate you with the mind around my womb. So, yeah, maybe it's them, like, really sitting with the power of the womb and, like, understanding how she bleeds and how she chooses and how she brings and creates life to, like, help them understand. I can imagine right now that there are partners in conflict around this issue.

You know, I hadn't even thought of that. It hasn't. That hasn't even occurred to me that people would even find themselves in a relationship with that kind of differing of opinion. But you're right that that might be the case. I can't even really imagine, to be honest. But I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna echo what I said before. Like, what I would love to see is a mass revolution of women heightening their standards in a big, big, big, big, big way, claiming their own worth by requiring. My God, I mean, this issue that a lot of women have and a lot of spiritual women especially have, if they don't know how to say no, they don't know how to have. You know, this has been my personal journey too. Women put up with a lot of crap that they should not be putting up with. Women put up with a lot of. A lot of mistreatment. And what would happen if women just decided to start saying, no, no, me first, I matter. You can contribute and support and nourish me, you know, and not out of some kind of narcissistic egoic thing, but literally because we need to model that frequency for the planet, for Gaia. If body of woman is body of earth, and it is because when the body of woman was worshiped as holy temple, so was the body of earth. They are one. Gaia and body of woman. Gaia and womb are one. It makes sense right now for us to hold the frequency and say, honor the feminine, feed the feminine, respect the feminine, support the feminine, or leave. Go away. You're not allowed. I'm happy to nourish you and love you and connect and share my gifts with you, but only in exchange for respect. You don't just get to take from me. That's a powerful mass frequency to hold.

So beautifully said. Well, thank you so much for sharing. Beautiful words. You have any final words or poem or anything that you'd love to share?

I think I just want to highlight the last piece again. I think that it's really women who have connection to the frequency of the Goddess to drop the martyrdom. To drop the martyrdom and actually shift into I am a microcosm of the earth. I am a microcosm of her. So I do not allow mistreatment. That is part of my spiritual devotion. The holy no.

Yes.

For ourselves, for the planet, for our daughters.

Yes.

For all of it.

Yes.

Well, thank you so much for sharing your medicine. And where can listeners further connect with you and hear your beautiful poetry On Spotify.

Yeah, you can look up Maya Luna on Spotify. I have a spoken word poetry album and an album of embodiment practices, guided embodiment practices. And my website is deepfemininemysteryschool.com well, thank.

You again for being with us today. We so deeply appreciated it.

Thank you so much for having me. It's been an honor to be with you. Thank you. Mm.

I hope this episode resonated with your womb the way that it has mine. And we need to continue to have these conversations. So please share on your Instagram stories via email, however you connect with your tribe text message groups WhatsApps we need to get this out because every single woman who is awakened to her sacred rain age can channel it towards creating the solutions, creating the new paradigm. So please share this conversation. Tag us on Instagram. I would love to see what insights have arise from you. Please share in the comments of my Instagram for this post. I'm so curious to see and let's continue this discussion. I hope you love this episode. Know that bills are being passed in different states. Look at your local states. I know here in Florida, luckily there was a bill passed saying that it was unconstitutional to do this ban. So I'm very happy with that. However, Texas, many different states out there, we still need you to rise up. And again, this isn't just a woman's issue. This is a human issue. So bring your partner, bring your spouse, bring your friends, bring everyone involved because our human rights cannot be stripped away. This is a slippery slope. This same judge has said they want to eventually, eventually ban contraception, gay and interracial marriage. So this is what we're up against. And if we don't talk about it, if we don't talk about the truth and we remain in our la la la la la imagination. That's how those powers that be can easily take over. So the other side of being joyful is being honest. And this is honestly what we're up against. And through looking at it dead in the eye we can rise and create the highest possible outcome for all. So please please share this episode. Share your voice. Make a change. I can't wait to read your feedback. Like always, please leave a review for the podcast. This helps it be heard by more people. Share this episode if you love this episode, tell people to come to this episode. This helps more people listen to it. People who maybe feel alone, you know, people who everyone around them is telling them to think a certain way. They haven't heard heard people have a discussion like this. So please share your review. And also as a free gift for leaving review for the podcast, I will Send you my free 5 day Discover your soul's purpose meditation course so you can email that over to me@saharaatfieldfresh.com again that's saharaatfieldfresh.com just take a screenshot of your review and you can find all this information in the show notes. Thank you so much for listening and I'll see you in the next one. Namaste.