499: The Science of Attraction + Dating As A Conscious Person with Rosie Acosta

So much of attraction is related to scent. So there have been studies about women on birth control pills. And when you're on birth control pill, your body thinks that it's essentially pregnant, it's not looking to procreate anymore. So the scents that you're attracted to in a man shift into someone with a more similar immune system to you. But when you're not on the pill and you ovulate, you're attracted to someone with the opposite immune system to you, because that's gonna make your child have the strongest immune system. So a lot of like when you meet someone and you're just so attracted to them and you love or smell is because your immune systems are polar opposites. So in this study they found that women were meeting people, dating, getting married to these men, and then getting off of birth control to get pregnant. And then all of a sudden they couldn't stand the scent of their husbands. They're like, something about him, I just don't wanna be near him. And it was leading to divorce that they, through this research, they kind of renamed birth control pill the divorce pill. Because these women were choosing men that had similar immune systems to them because they were on the pill when they met. When they got off of the pill and they were actually ovulating, it was similar. So their bodies were having this averse reaction that as if it was your family member. And I think that this is really important because if you've only been on birth control the whole time that you've known your partner, there actually might be a shift when you come off. Welcome to the Highest Self podcast. My name is Sahara Rose and on this podcast I love taking spiritual concepts and making it modern, fun, grounded, relatable. And I bring on my personal favorite friends and today you're gonna be hearing my best friend in the world. That's my best friend, real bad bitch. You know, it's that level. So her and I, honestly, our voice notes could be a podcast. You know those types of relationships where you're just like dropping wisdom all the time. And so we were like, okay, like every time we voice note we're like, this needs to be a podcast. This needs to be a podcast. So I'm like, bitch, you just need to come on the podcast to make it a podcast. So today we're gonna be talking about the science of attraction. And this is our science, this is our form of science that we are co creating here on the podcast experience. But for real, she's been in a 20 year long relationship. So that to me Is like, I bow down. I don't know how guide us. And for me now, coming out of a seven year relationship and being single, I'm like, oh my God, like, what do I not know about? And how can I teach myself how be more wise and intuitive. But there's also the people that you're attracted to, and we have our types. And I've been really pondering, like, why. Why are we attracted to certain people and not others? And how are the people we are attracting to shifting as we go through a healing journey that you may have had your type when you were 20 years old and your self worth was like down in the shitters, you know, and then you might have your type when you were 30 years old and you're looking for stability, and then you have a type at different stages of your life. So your type changes with time. And we also read a lot of books, so we're not also just picking up. So we're gonna be referencing to a lot of different books that we've read and our own personal experience. So without further ado, let's welcome Rosie Acosta to the Highest Self podcast. I pretend I'm Latina around her.

She is. She's a part of the Latina gang.

Invited to the taqueria.

Well, you look Latina, so you definitely can pass for sure. And yeah, hablas espanol de Latina.

Okay, so what makes you your highest self?

I knew you were gonna ask me that. And I was thinking about it while I was driving and getting irritated with the like, snippet of traffic that I had because I was like, you know, I want to get in the zone. I'm about to do this podcast and I. I know I'm gonna be with you and obviously it's chill for me, but I was thinking, okay, I know she's gonna ask this question. She asks it all the time. And I think the first thing that comes to me is just being honest. Right? And that is one of the biggest keys and foundations to our relationship is our ability to be honest and not feeling judged in any way. And I know that I've talked about this before, but one of my favorite teachings from Mark Nepo, he talks about this in the Book of Awakening a lot and a couple of his other writings, that when we love somebody, all of who they are is welcome. And I was thinking about you. I was thinking about us and our relationship. And I really feel that I know that all of who I am, all the facets are welcome. Ah, le me love you.

We're just gonna keep referencing songs.

This is literally what happens all day long. But so, yeah, so for me, that's what.

Love your curves and all your edges. But it's true. And that's ultimately what we want in relationships as well. We want to be met in our entirety. And I've realized for me, in our friendship, it's like, if I'm being met on such a deep level in my friendships, why would I not desire that in my relationships? And I feel like a lot of us women especially, we compartmentalize. We're like, okay, I'm gonna have be met in my friendships and get all my needs from all my girls. But in my relationship, whatever, he's a dumbass. He's not gonna be able to even have this conversation. So then our standards just go so low, and then we're feeling unfulfilled, we're feeling unseen, we're feeling unmet, and we're wondering what else is out there. And it's a two way. It's like we're also not being vulnerable and opening ourselves up and having those honest con with the men either. So we're kind of expecting them to show up in this way that we've never even opened ourselves up to. So then we're in this dynamic that neither of us are feeling that way.

Exactly. Why do you think that is for you personally? Why do you think that you've not allowed yourself to be your full self in romantic relationships?

Ooh, is this therapy? What's going on here? Let's go deep.

We go deep.

Okay, let's go deep. For me, when I tune into that, it's that, like, for example, having a dad that was like very focused on work and drive, that. That became my model of men, that men are good providers, they're good at, you know, being the stability of the family. But am I gonna get my emotional needs met from him? No. Like, that's who I would go to my mom for, who I would tell about my life and this and that. And I feel like a lot of us, that core wound does come from the father wound, and that father wound is often there because men have been expected to be unemotional and disconnected and just be the providers. And they're doing what they were taught to do by their fathers. So I've noticed that in the past I was like, okay, here's what I need from a man. And like he needs to meet me emotionally. But like 60% is good enough. And then I would get the rest from my girls. And now I'M like, no, I'm only calling in a true relationship where I can be my full self, where I can be met, where I can learn and not just be in the teacher role, but that fear comes of, will I ever find someone to meet me there? And I think that's where a lot of women settle.

Yeah, they settle in that space of, well, I'm getting exactly just enough. Like, just enough of what my requirements are or what my worth is. And that's gonna be okay because I don't actually know that I'll find somebody that can fulfill all of those. Actually, you know, thinking about it, because I always like to look at the paradox. Right. I'm like, okay, yeah, but what's the opposite of that? What is the opposite of that checklist that I've created for my partner? What is the opposite? What is my role in that checklist? What is the checklist that I am going to check off for the other? And also, if I'm very rigid in my expect not even expectation in my prerequisites for this person, am I then limiting myself to something that potentially could be really good for me? Right. We were talking about this the other day on the power of. Yeah. Manifesting your soulmate or what are the ways that you can manifest those Right. Relationships into your life? And we had this really great voice note dialogue where we went back and forth. And I've been thinking about it a lot because I really. Look, I love both concepts, right? This idea that we somehow can set a fertile ground for us to attract the right partner in our life. You do the work, you're able to set that ground, that space for that person, that magical unicorn that you've written down and vision boarded and listed to come in. But at the same time, I feel like one of the biggest issues that I have with that is that sometimes, what manifestation? Sometimes when we go into this ideology, we forget that there's also action and effort involved. We solely rely on the ability to manifest this person. Right. So I'm curious for you if you've also been thinking about that or if you're still on board with what your thesis was at that point and if you're comfortable sharing what you thought.

Sure, yeah. You know, with. When I was in my early 20s, I like, Drew this picture of, like, my God, man. I've shared about it on the podcast that it's like, these are his qualities and his age and his ethnicity, and this is what he does for work, and this is how we spend our weekends. And I'm like, these are all the factors. And I actually did manifest that, you know, so it actually really did work. However, now my list is. Has shifted, and it's not about that person and who they are, but it's about our dynamic in the relationship. And I feel like so many of us, we focus so much on who that person is, what does he do, what does he look like, all of these things. And ultimately what you're left in a relationship with is the dynamic. Is my friendship with you based on the fact that you're Mexican or that you are an author or this or that. Like, those are factors about you, but it's not what our relationship is on. Our relationship is on that you're able to hold space for me in my toughest times, and that we're able to have fun together, and that we're able to. To go deep. And so now these are the things that I have written down. But as I go into, like, every single month, I find myself losing and losing those as well. Because we can only manifest based on what we know at this moment of time. And as we gain more awareness, as we do more healing work. That thing that I might have been calling in in January is, like, totally not what I would be calling in right now, because I have shifted so much. So now I'm like, I just trust and surrender to the universe, God, like, the beings that are creating something so much larger than me, that whoever's meant to come into my life for whatever lesson will. I do think there is the balance, though, of having standards, you know, Because I see sometimes you can go the other way of like, well, I'm just in love with this person, and love wins. And it's like, it's so easy for us, especially when we're single, to just, like, want to go back into love and just do whatever we can. And we're like, yeah, you know, like, I heard this really good analogy when I went to this workshop when I was, like, 24 years old. And it's always stuck with me of, let's say you're really craving sushi, and the sushi restaurant doesn't open until 6pm but you're really hungry and it's noon. So you're driving around, you see this, like, burrito shop, and you're like, hey, like, I'm really hungry. I'm just gonna get a little snack for now, just to hold me over until the sushi comes. And you're like, okay, I'll get a burrito, but can you wrap it up in seaweed? Instead of tortilla. And they're like, yeah, I guess we could do that. And it's like falling apart. You're like, you know what? Can you also replace the chicken with some like salmon sashimi? And they're like, we don't have salmon sashimi here. And you're like, no, make it work. And that's what so many of us do. We're trying to make the burrito into Sushi. And then 6pm comes and we're so full because we've been eating this burrito that we didn't even really like. And I find so many of us were like, okay, I'm just gonna be in this situationship for now, you know, because I need love, I need intimacy. And it's just gonna hold me off until I meet my guy. But you're not looking anymore. You're not energetically opening up your field anymore. There's such a different energy when you're like completely single and sovereign on your own than even when you have someone you're talking to that then you might have met the person, they may have walked right by you, but your eyes were completely blocked from seeing them. So I have found also the further I go along on my single journey, I'm like, I will only. It's like I'm not gonna lower my standards out of like the fear of being alone. In fact, I'm finding more and more joy and freedom and, you know, deepening lessons that I would only learn from being alone. And then the paradox of that is there's never gonna be that perfect person. So eventually there's going to be some form of not settling but like compromise. And I remember before I was like, I don't like the word compromise because I believe in a win win situation and I do ultimately think a win win situation is best. But even in you, and I'm curious for you in your 20 year now relationship and he's such a beautiful man you've shared with me. If you saw him on a dating app, you would not have said yes. So I'm like, damn. Like, you know, and it's like you just see these two dimensional people in their and they're like, I don't know, he's a musician, like, looks like this could work. And it's like, that's maybe not who you would have vibed with in real life. So how do you see like your standards and then this relationship that you're in now?

Yeah, and I love everything that you're saying and this is one of the reasons Why I love having these conversations with you because you're able to reflect. You have the awareness to be able to reflect and see both sides. And I feel like that's what a lot of us out here in the world miss sometimes. That opportunity to really slow down and reflect on every decision that you're making. Every choice, every swipe, every choice that you make is either getting you further towards alignment or further away from alignment. And so I think for me, and yes, I've shared this and I've said it to him before, and not that Tori's not a hot guy, outwardly of course I would be attracted to him, but if I were to see a profile or like a.

He's like in trusts Home Depot.

Yeah, I know. And her and I make some things around the house. We make fun, you know, and it's true. It's like I like to be at home with my dog. Like he is so insular and so just.

I can't even imagine him making a dating app.

Right. Can you imagine?

And let's also just like, let's put a pin on just like dating apps and like the energies behind it.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's do that. Yeah. But so I would not have been. If it was now, today, 2023, I wouldn't have even, you know, I would have just kept going because I would see just the external. Right. It. We are 3D, 5D however you want to see it. We are multifaceted beings and we're just making an assumption on somebody's multifacetedness on a two dimensional.

Which is so. Cause I've even realized it too. Cause you helped me make my profile, which was very nerve wracking for me. And even just the pictures that you choose makes people think you're a completely different person. How much you write, you know, can make you come off as a completely different person. So they're not actually even getting to know a good reflection of you. And most of us are not even good at making these profiles.

Right.

So it's like whatever mood you were in that day is what people are gonna think you are. That I could put like all my spiritual pictures and me like in Egypt and people have one perception of me. I could put DJing and twerking in Trinidad. They have another perception of me, but.

It'S like that's my personality that I would swipe on that.

But then they would be entering into a dynamic thinking, oh, this girl's just gonna be a lot of fun.

Yeah. But here's the thing on that it is a part of you. So if somebody swipes on your spiritual stuff, then all of a sudden you're coming out and twerking and doing things.

And then they would be confused. So it's hard to show all sides of you when you have, like, five pictures in one sentence.

Right. And I think that. That. That's the part where I feel like every single app out there needs to have a disclaimer to say, you're seeing just a.001% of this person's being. You're only seeing. And also, hi. You're seeing only the parts that I want you to see. Which, you know, for some people are. They're really good at showing a story. And other people, you know, like, Torey is an incredible man. He's a husband material. He's been since day one. That man would not know how to create that profile for himself, you know, and somebody could just see him and be like, no. Like, he just looks boring, you know, and he's so not. But I think that that's part of that dynamic where I, you know, you and I talk about this, and I think I talk to a lot of my students about it, too, that are single. And in this world of swipe culture and how confusing it is, how depressing it is, how overwhelming it is. And sometimes I think a little distance from the swiping is not. It's just like social media, right? We take social media breaks.

Yeah. I've decided I'm deleting this app, by the way.

Oh, great. Okay, great. But that's. You know, sometimes I think we just need breaks. Like, I think the part that we forget. Back in my day, I'm gonna date myself now. Back in the day, we met, and I'm almost 10 years older than you are. Right. So when I was single, we met people out in the world.

How did you know they were murderers, rapists, stalkers?

Well, you still don't. I mean, but back then, you still don't know now.

Totally.

You know, there is no. All you can do now is you have access to more information, which sometimes I feel like kills that mystique. It's like, yes, there are predators out there. That is true.

And they could be on the app or they could be in real life. In fact, probably in real life, you could feel their energy a lot more than someone's.

Perfect.

Yes.

And that's the thing. Back in the day, you can go to the mall, or you can go to a bar, you can go to a concert, you can go see a Show. You can go to a comedy show, and you're looking around, scanning people. You're observing naturally what we do. We're clocking the room because we are animalistic. Right. We're looking for that energy that aligns with where we are.

But here's the paradox of that that I've noticed, and we're just gonna keep going.

This is gon.

But there's something that's, like, this desperation of going out to meet someone.

Okay, tell me more about this.

I feel like a lot of girls, I don't know if guys do it, of, like, they're getting ready, hoping, like, tonight he's gonna be there. The moment they walk into the bar, wherever they're going, they do the scan. Is he here? Oh, he's not here. And then their mood goes down because they were only out to find the guy. So I feel like sometimes where these apps are helpful for people is I don't need to, like, force myself to go out somewhere. I wouldn't want to go just in the hopes of meeting someone. Yeah.

But still, you're gonna be disappointed because the expectation is there, and expectation is just premeditated resentment. Right?

Yeah. And that's why you should just go places that you would just wanna go regardless, so that if you find someone or not, you would want to be there.

Yeah. But I think what you're saying is way more complex. Our desire, the desperation. Where does the desperation comes from? It comes from a place of not knowing. Of not knowing whether I'm gonna be alone forever. So it's stemming from a place of.

Fear and impatience, too. And impatience, because it takes a lot more time to meet someone in real life and going to a lot of places. And, you know, 95% of the time, you're not gonna meet someone there, but maybe 5% of the time you will. And then maybe 1% of those is actually gonna turn into a date or something. Whereas with these apps, you're getting such a high volume of people. You could be going through hundreds of profiles a day and have 10 dates a day, if that's what you want to do. But then it's like a Vegas buffet.

Yeah. It's like there's no substance.

And I find every time I go on these apps, I, like, literally get depressed after because I'm sad of the way that we have dehumanized each other, the way that I'm judging people, the way people are judging me, the way that we're, like, selling ourselves to strangers. And then even the dynamics on these apps, most People don't even talk because it's like you're kind of texting with the stranger that you have no context about. You're trying to find some common ground on something. You have to keep logging into an app to even have the conversation. You forget about it. And then I find very few people actually end up meeting in person. I actually haven't even gotten to that stage yet, but. But I remember in my early 20s when I did. And then it's like that person is just like, you don't have a vibe. And then you have to, like, reject them kind of. And then you have to deal with that. So I feel like that's why also, we try to even not meet the person because we're like, I don't want to have to deal with meeting them and it not going well. And then I have to reject them and I'll feel bad.

Yeah.

So it's hard because, like, in theory, yes, you could be meeting all these people, but I find these apps, very few people are actually connecting in person.

Yeah. And I think that that's the big problem. And look, when we are meeting somebody, when you're single and you're meeting somebody, most of the time that first meeting is you're just looking and scanning for the first thing that you don't like. Right. You're looking for the wrong answer. How soon before this person gives me the wrong answer? How soon before this person gives me the red flag?

People write all the time in their profiles. It's like, don't swipe if you're this. And I'm not looking for that. And don't waste my time. And it's like they're even coming in with that defensive energy.

Yeah. And that I think. I mean, look, that's not the grounds for a loving connection and a loving relationship. And it's hard. We've had these conversations ad nauseam, many days, many months, many times, even before we've had this conversation. And I think it has more to do with our ability to discern when we need a break from it and what our worth is in this single dumb experience. What is my worth? What is my value? What am I looking for? And can I find what I'm looking for within myself first? So one of the things that I was thinking about, too, and I know that we've talked about this before, but this idea of finding a soulmate. Right. So first of all, what is your belief on soulmates?

I believe we have various soulmates in this lifetime, and they come into our lives to Teach us different lessons that we could only learn through them and through their absence as well. And I think we have different time contracts with them, you know, and also, not all of them are romantic. Like, you're a soulmate of mine, but we ain't going there. My life would be way easier, by the way.

I was just like, God, please just.

Turn me into a lesbian.

Please.

I have so many options. Then they'd show up, you know?

I love that. She's the first conversation I have, though. Anytime anything happens, it's like I'm coming home from a trip. And I'm like, this is what happened. By the way, I've not talked to Tori.

Exactly. So it's like, so we can be soulmates. You can have your parent or a grandma, and you can have romantic ones. I don't believe in this whole twin flame thing that it's like your soul in another person's body and only this is true love. But you're gonna bring out all of the karma from each other because that to me is trauma bonding and coming back to attraction. I think what a lot of attraction is is trauma bonding. It's that person feels very familiar to your childhood traumas and they fit into yours. And that's why you're able to make this dynamic work so much, because it feels so familiar. Oh, you're bringing up my wound of not feeling important enough for my father. Perfect. Oh, you're bringing up my wound of having my mother be like, really, like a helicopter parent. Perfect. I know this really well. Let's be in relationship. And the reason why it can feel so, like fireworky and stuff is because it's triggering that trauma that's making you come alive. And now just speaking to a lot of people who are in a successful long term conscious relationships, a lot of them did not have that spark at the beginning of the. And I think that's so huge because we think, oh, if I meet someone, it's either on and like, I know it's them. And it's like, we can't keep our hands off each other or that's not my person. But a lot of these people, they said we were friends for years and there was never a spark until one day there was, or they were in and out, or some of them even started with one night stands and in weird situations. And I think it's important to note that because we're so used to attraction being this like really like intense chemistry thing, when often that chemistry is actually our body's alert to the familiarity of the trauma.

There's the science of attraction. What if instant attraction is just trauma bonding?

Yeah. Well, and here's another part, though. Yes, it can be trauma bonding. Yes, it can also be soul contracts of, like, this person and you are meant to do this dance in some type of way. And God is bringing you guys together. And again, it might be to break each other's hearts and learn lessons you could only learn through that. Or it could be to create something, a business together. It could be to move to another place. I find sometimes people come into your life to get you to move somewhere, and then once that relationship is done, they're no longer needed in your life. And at the same time, there's a lot of it that's biological, like based on evolution. So here's one thing that the apps don't do. So much of attraction is related to scent. So there have been studies about women on birth control pills. And when you're on birth control pill, your body thinks that it's essentially pregnant. It's not looking to procreate anymore. So the sense that you're attracted to in a man shifts into someone with a more similar immune system to you. But when you're not on the pill and you ovulate, you're attracted to someone with the opposite immune system to you, because that's gonna make your child have the strongest immune system. So a lot of, like when you meet someone and you're just so attracted to them and you love their smell is because your immune systems are polar opposites. So in the study, they found that women were meeting people, dating, getting married to these men, and then getting off of birth control to get pregnant. And then all of a sudden, they couldn't stand the scent of their husbands. They're like, something about him, I just don't wanna be near him. And it was leading to divorce that they, through this research, they kind of renamed birth control pill the divorce pill, because these women were choosing men that had similar immune systems to them because they were on the pill when they met these men. Then when they got off of the pill and they were actually ovulating, it was similar. So their bodies were having this averse reaction as if it was your family member. And I think that this is really important because if you. You've only been on birth control the whole time that you've known your partner, there actually might be a shift when you come off. So part of it is that part of that is there's a really good book called the science of Beauty, I think, and it's about, like, why do we find certain people beautiful? And a lot of it is based on fertility. So for women, we're attracted to round faces, big eyes, big lips, full hair, almost like baby like qualities, you know, because it's showing you. We're attracted to the waist to hip ratio that's showing fertility. We're attracted to glowing skin, having a lot of energy. That means that they're vivacious, they're able to procreate life. And then for men, we're attracted to broad shoulders, angular jawlines, which are signs of testosterone, deep voices. And I really want to talk about voices because that's such a huge thing for me especially. I hear someone's voice and it's like, yes or no? Because your voice says so much about your embodiment and your testosterone and estrogen levels and just like, who you are as a person. So we're picking up on all these cues that you would just not get through an app that you might meet that person and just be like, something about them is just energetically repulsive to you. Or you might meet someone that's like not your type at all, but something about them, their voice, their smell, their something is super attractive to you. And then it's the question of, is it the biology, is it the trauma bonding? And that's where only time will tell. And being honest with yourself.

Yeah, I love that. And I love that we're using the science aspect. I think that in that same book, there's the white, the T shirt study where the men, they're sweating and then they have the women smell to see what smells repellent to them and what smell is attracted to them. So all the men did was just sweat in these shirts. So they're just smelling sweat. But some women would be like completely repulsed by the smell, and others, same T shirt, same guy would be completely attracted to them. And most of the women that were attracted to certain smells were also in their ovulation phase. So.

And also women who are ovulating, their sweat is more attractive to men in general.

This is so interesting. So I love the voice experience that you're talking to because I feel also the science of attraction is so layered. It's not just an aesthetic because somebody can be aesthetically beautiful and you're having an experience, and the minute they open their mouth, you're like, this is a no for me. Or the minute that you get near them and you smell them, you might be a little bit no. So I'm curious for you. You said the voice Thing is something very important to you, like, what is it about the voice that you find so intriguing?

So in my own spiritual journey of really honoring the sacred feminine energy within me, I realized that we're not all the same, and we all have different pathways that we can take that I put together in creating five archetypes, which I call the Rose Gold Goddess archetypes. They are the Embodiment Queen, the Womb Whisperer, the Intuitive Oracle, the Expressionista, and the Joy Priestess. And I've put together a free quiz so you can find out what your unique combination are. So the Embodiment Queen is person who's always in her body, dancing, moving, very connected to her nervous system. The Womb Whisperer always knows where she's at in her menstrual cycle and probably has a yoni steamer in her bathroom. The Intuitive Oracle has three oracle card decks on them, a pendulum, and knows about their past lives. The Expressionista is creating art through everything, through singing, dancing, writing, poetry. Everything for her is an opportunity to create art. And then we've got the Joy Priestess, who wants to laugh, dance, and not take herself super seriously. You can find her doing karaoke at an improv class or twerking it on the dance floor. You can guess which one I am. So you can head over to rggquiz.com to learn what your unique Rose Gold Goddess archetype is. Again, that's rggquiz.com and you can find that link in the show notes. And I've created custom graphics that you get in your results so you can share which Rose Gold Goddess archetype you are. I'm super excited to see. Well, I teach about the voice, right, with my Speak with Soul course. So I've been really diving into the voice and then having this podcast for over seven years and hearing my voice again and again and hearing how my voice has changed as I have changed, I've really noticed the kind of the correlation between your voice and your embodiment. And I find that when I'm hearing someone's voice, I can tell what chakras they're connected with with. So if someone's voice is, like, way more up here and more nasally and kind of sounds like Steve Urkel when they're talking, like, I can just tell they're probably a really heady person, and we probably just, like, wouldn't fucking kick it, you know? Whereas, like, if someone has, like, a deep voice, you know, I mean, they could be kind of. They could be kind of creepy and read, like, soft romantic novels.

To you so good.

Or they could, could be, you know, they're obviously like very like rooted and they're masculine. And it's like also about finding your happy medium. I find that the percentage feminine you are is the percentage masculine that that person you will attract. So let's say I am 70% feminine, 30% masculine. I'm likely going to be attracted to someone who is 70% masculine, 30% feminine. So for me I'm not attracted to someone who's like, yeah, watch football, get her done. Like that's not. I'm. I just can't because have like I run a business and I have these things that are like in my masculine. Whereas if I was like the cheerleader and I just want to be a housewife, like I might. Those people who are like 95% feminine end up with someone who's 95% masculine because it's that polarity. Whereas for me, I find myself attracted to men who are creative and artistic and musicians which are like have feminine qualities, but they're still in their masculine because I have the ability to create and take care of myself and have that. Whereas some people who are like 50, 50 masculine and feminine, let's say a non binary person, tend to be attracted to other non binary people. So as you shift and you step more into, as a woman, you step more into your masculine. And that's not a bad thing. We actually want that. We want to be more integrated within ourselves. We're gonna find a man who's more integrated within himself, who's able to communicate, who's in touch with his emotions, who's able to create, who's able to hold space for you. But if you're not able to hold space for yourself, if you're not able to find safety for yourself, and this is what I see, cause I'm now reading all these things about like be a high value woman. And it's like the man needs to provide the safety and he needs to do this and he needs to do that. And it's like, okay, so you're gonna just wait in your life for someone to provide you a sense of purpose and stability and safety and all these things. And you're gonna outsource it to another person. Like good luck with that because it's not gonna last. Because love has its own mind and nothing's guaranteed. So. And then men also, they don't wanna feel for like, oh shit, I have to be your everything.

I think that's a big ask for men to take that responsibility on themselves. Because it's changing now. The male and female and non binary roles are changing. Everything's shifting. Our dynamic is no longer two things, right? So I think it's really something that's not discussed enough, the pressures that men have to be that person. And it was more so back in the day, right, where men were sort of trained and conditioned to be the sole provider and you need to take care of your woman and you need to be able to provide. And I think that that's why a lot of marriages failed. Because I feel like men also want to be met and they also want to be supported. And I'm not saying it has to be an equal dynamic either. I think to each his own. You know, I know that from. I can only, I guess, speak on my experience in my relationship. I know that Tory and I met. We were both career people, we were both working. He has his own business, he's very successful, and he's gone through the ups and downs of being an entrepreneur. And I had a career at the time. And when I decided I wanted to become a meditation and mindfulness and yoga teacher, I. I knew that it was gonna be a little bit of a strain for us because I wasn't going to be bringing in as much or any income. And, you know, he really supported me in that time. But I just felt like for me, I want to be able to bring something to the table, you know, And I'm not saying financially, but it just feels like in a relationship there needs to be that. That co creating aspect. I can't just be a trad wife, right? I mean, no offense to any trad wives out there. Have you heard about this? So trad wife, it's traditional wife. It's like a thing. You should check it out on TikTok. So a trad wife, from what I understand, and I went down and I'm getting these videos because of the shit that I watch with you, by the way, so random about relationships, but it's traditional wife that there's this big movement happening right now where women are really embracing this role of being a traditional at home wife at home mom. They stay at home with the kids and they do the cooking, the cleaning. And they really take a lot of pride in this role. And I think if that's your Dharma, if that's your path, if that's your purpose, do it. If you want to be a stay at home mom and that's your purpose, do it, do it well and do it with love and with devotion. If your husband is somebody who wants to take care of a traditional wife and wants to have that role. And you find somebody that's aligned, great, perfect. You found each other. It's in alignment, it's great. But I just feel like for a lot of women that I know anyway, that's not their way. I didn't grow up around women who wanted to be a traditional housewife. My mom always worked. I always wanted to provide for myself. I wanted to have something, like I said, that I'm bringing to the table. And I know that for me, my partner really respects the fact that I'm self motivated, that I have something that I'm really passionate about because he has something he's really passionate about. And one of the things that him and I have talked about this before and I've asked him like, what we ask each other. Well, I'm always the one that's asking the questions, let's be honest. But I'm like, what attracted you to me? Like, what was it about me that you found attractive? You know, obviously Tori has a type. We're not gonna go into that. But aside from the external or the initial attraction, he said that it was my devotion to whatever I did. You know, he said it just, whether you're learning or you're studying or you're working, you fully immerse yourself in whatever it is that you're doing. And that was really attractive to me. And for me, at that point, I was 20, I was in my early 20s. So I'm curious if that is the same still for men. Are men still really attracted to women who are fully immersed in whatever it is that they're doing that have a purpose, that are career oriented? I mean, I would say yes. Yes. But yeah, this is a great question.

I think it comes back to the percentage of masculine feminine. So a man who's like 90% masculine, he works, he watches football with a beer, and he wants someone to cook and clean and take care of the kids. He doesn't have feminine energy within him. He doesn't have creativity. He doesn't have those things. So he needs that from his partner. And then someone who's hyper feminine, she never wants to work. She doesn't like that pressure at all. She would much rather fold a bunch of laundry than have to go on a zoom call. That's perfect. 90, 90%. Whereas, yeah, the more you bring in that other dynamic within yourself, it's like for Tori, he's also an artist, you know, that he is gonna respect someone that has it. I think what's Interesting is the way that it can change within us. So I grew up Persian. Like your greatest ambition in life is to be a wife and a mother. So I was taught, like, oh, you're gonna cut the vegetables, you're gonna serve them, you're gonna look good all the time. That's what matters in life. And you know, and don't get too successful. Cause that's gonna be intimidating for men. And men don't like powerful women. And you know that my whole life it was like, who you're gonna marry was like the most important thing. And that's what I thought I wanted in my early 20s of like get married to a successful guy so I could like do volunteer work. Then I even entered my relationship not being. It's like I was writing my book, but I wasn't really making money. I was like coming back from India. I wasn't in this embodiment of it. And then he was looking for someone who is more that role. Then I was shifting and he was shifting, but not as much as I was that it's like you can't go back to a former version of you. It's like humans are going to evolve. But I can also understand someone's like, well, my expectation of you was to be a stay at home wife. And that's no longer what you want to be. And I think that's what's tricky, you know, because we evolve so much in relationships that you're not always with that person when you met them. That person?

Yeah. Oh yeah. No, no, no.

And a lot of people think it's like, oh, I need to do all my healing work and then enter into a relationship. But really it's a. Where you probably evolve like more quickly than anything else. So I have found now within me, like no part of me wants to be the stay at home wife cutting vegetables at all. And so I would just definitely never entertain someone who's looking for that for me. Cause I bring in just my great positive energy and my humor and my sexiness and everything else that I bring along. And maybe I'll cut you up some cucumbers sometimes, you know, I got bigger things to do on this planet.

But let me, let me ask you something. I know you say that, but at the same time, maybe I'll turn, turn around.

I'll be like, yo, I'm just staying home.

I'm just staying at home.

Casserole.

Guys, look, I think this is the most interesting thing in our dynamic. I think the mind is a powerful place. And we tell Ourselves, whatever it is that we need in that moment to fill that space and to make us feel good in that moment. But the reality is you don't know.

You don't know.

You don't know. You can meet somebody, they can be.

Friends the moment they have kids, then all of a sudden they are actually like, I want to stay at home with my kids as much. And I used to be super career oriented. Then their kids become two years old and they're like, I actually wanna do the career again. It's like we change so much, so much.

And I think it's allowed. I think we should give ourselves permission to do that and be okay with not having a relationship.

And then what about that dynamic of I thought I married this and you keep changing.

Okay, but that's. But look at our relationship. You know, it's torey and I's relationship changes every year. Every year. There is something. I mean, he really went through it with me and I talk about it in my book, how I had all these different careers that I wanted to do. I wanted to be a marine biologist, I wanted to go to culinary school. I wanted to be a ghost hunter. Like, I wanted to do so many different careers.

You're kind of wearing a Ghostbuster out.

I know. Actually, it is kind of like a little work suit. And there's ghosts in this building, by the way. Side note, I think that's a really nice. You know, you have a strong relationship when you can go through the changes and you get to really see who somebody is when you are going through a transformation, right? When you are going through that experience of breaking through that chrysalis, right? It's like the monarch is a little egg. And from the egg it turns into a caterpillar. From the caterpillar it turns into a chrysalis. And then it stays in there for. For 14 days plus. And then when it's ready, it has to struggle and strain and effort and move and work and work and work to the point of exhaustion to break out of its shell because it needs that strength to fly, right? And so when we are going through that cycle in our relationships, the most important thing is not, not, oh, is this person hot? Or, oh, is this person good in bed? Or is this person. Does this person snore at night? It's, can this person withstand me growing? Can, right?

And dying and dying. Because we, we go through our own death cycles. And it's honestly, you're gonna die regardless many times in your life and your relationship is going to die. Can you die.

Well, yeah. Mic drop. That's a tweetable moment.

Tweetable moment. But it's true. Because we think we're entering into the stagnant container of like, okay, this is our relationship. These are our agreements, and it's set in stone. And it's not because you have two ever changing beings. And then this relationship is a third person that's ever changing as well. It is an entity that's being birthed on its own, and it goes through its own metamorphosis. And sometimes the relationship needs to die, you know, the way that it was before. And often that happens only when you're, like, at the brink of breaking up or you actually break up, that you realize, am I in or am I out? And if I'm in, this is what I need. And this is also how I need to change. And I think most people don't do that. We're so quick to go on to the next and think, oh, it's that person. That person's not it for me. And we go on to another and another, and we never find that person. Because relationships are never going to fully meet you all the time. Like, I have a friend, she's been on this podcast, Lucy. She's this amazing tantra teacher, and she met her husband, they were in their early 20s, and they had all this amazing sex. And then he went through this journey of, like, going through really bad health problems and then becoming handicapped. And now he does all these, like, water fasts. And it's like, here she thought she's entering this, like, super hot sex relationship, and she's, like, having to take care of him a lot of the time. They've also been together, like, almost 20 years, and they just keep showing up for each other and choosing each other and knowing it's just a season. And, you know, even for me, going through my divorce, I was like, probably an annoying friend because I'm just processing and talking. Imagine if you were just like, well, screw this. I'm not. You know, she's not as funny anymore. Like, I'm out. You know, actually, I was funnier.

She was funnier. I wanna dial her back. Let's bring her back.

But it's like, it's a season in a friendship, and you go through that wave. And I think we're just so used to instant gratification and everything in our society right now that we don't allow people to go through those waves. So they don't. And they hold it back, and then they hold back their growth and Then you're both playing roles. And that brings me back to, like, I've been really looking at, like, dating and, like, marriage, and it's almost like you date people and you're attracted to people that you like. But then the moment it turns into marriage, it becomes about choosing a role of, like, oh, are they husband or wife material? And now what that means is they're going to replace my father or mother, they're going to take care of me, they're going to this, they're going to that. And it's like, you would choose someone to marry. There's even that game. Kill, Marry.

Fuck, yeah.

You know, and it's always like, you're gonna fuck the hottest one. You're gonna kill the annoying one and marry the most stable one.

You know, fuck, marry, kill.

So with that, why do we choose to marry people? It's like, you see people, they're like, dating people of, like, one type, and then all of a sudden they get married to their hometown that they would have, like, never even been friends with.

Yeah.

It's like, that's the person you want to spend the rest of your life with. And so now for me, going into this, I don't want to wear different lenses of marriage material versus dating material versus this. It's like, do I enjoy your company? And let's just naturally see where it goes.

Yeah. I love what you said about marriage is fulfilling a role, because that's exactly what it is. And I feel like marriage means so many different things to so many different people, and I think that that's where the disappointment can begin. That is the inception of disappointment is the minute that you.

It's a good question for people, like, what does being married mean?

What does it actually mean? And I think that for me, and you know this, I wanted to get married our first seven years of our relationship so bad. And I was. Didn't under. And I'm also Hispanic, right. So I'm like, why am I not married yet? This is an anomaly. It doesn't make any sense.

And you had the dress ready?

Yeah, I was ready. I had the whole thing. The whole extravaganza was. Was fully loaded.

Pinata was ready to go.

Yeah, it was ready. Batter up. We should do a pinata per year next time we plan and cancel a wedding. So. Yeah, but look, I really had a epiphany in that experience because I realized this man is acting as if. So he doesn't care about marriage. And I equated that he doesn't care about marriage. Me but this man is the most loyal, most devoted human being I know. Most honest, most standup guy, not just to me, but to everybody in his life. He really is that person. I'm going to give up this relationship because of a piece of paper? Because I want to make it official. What? That doesn't make any sense. Why would I throw away a near. I don't want to say perfect because nothing's perfect. But a near perfect relationship, because I'm not getting him to fill that role. Right? That role that I think is the end all. Be all of relationships. Like, this is where we're heading. This is where we need to go. And if he's not willing to do that for me, he's not committed.

He's not serious about it.

He's not committed.

He wants out. And old me, prior to divorce would have been like, yeah, like, if he really wants to be with you forever, why not have a piece of paper? What's the big deal?

Oh, and let's talk about this, too, because at that time, I had so many people in my life saying that to me, oh, he's not serious about you. He's not. I mean, it's been seven years, babe. He's not gonna do it. I mean, if he's not done it this far, like, he just. He's probably never.

What was his reasoning of not wanting to.

He just doesn't believe in marriage. You know, he's not a religious person. He's not. He has his own spiritual practice, but he's not a dogmatic human being. Torey is like a rage against the machine rebel. I mean, he grew up in a town of 700 people with one blinking light, and he was always the odd man out. And that is who he is to his core. So why would he then decide to step into tradition and see, this is the other thing that I tell men, women out there who are single, when you meet somebody, believe them who they are. When they tell you who they are, believe them. Don't think, oh, I can change that. We can adapt that. We can.

Potential.

Yeah.

And let's put a pin on potential, though.

Oh, God.

After our conversation with Jay, Shenanigans, who is inspiring us.

Yes. Okay, well, so just to seal that, what you were saying about how the point was, I was really affected at that time because I was insecure within myself. That's the truth. I was insecure. And so I needed to.

Because you've been programmed to. If a man is serious about you, he's gonna give you the ring. And he's gonna propose. If you like it, then you should have put a ring on it. Exactly.

And, you know, tomato, tomahto.

But yeah. And it's like, look, your relationship has outlasted all of those marriages. Yeah.

All of those friends that told us we needed to get married are all divorced. All three of them. You know? And to me, I still have a way better relationship with my partner. And hopefully we continue to choose each other.

Well, it's this fallacy that marriage is security. That, like, once you married them, you've sealed the deal and it is forever, and there's no way it's gonna get messed up. And I used to believe that, too. And I realized that. That nothing in life is security. Nothing in life is guaranteed. Whether you have a paper or not. The same traumas, the same dynamics, the same patterns are going to show up. And in some ways, actually being married can make it worse because you're taking each other for granted. You're no longer in this, like, choosing of. Like, I can walk away. It's like, oh, my God. We had this big ceremony. We have these legal things, and we have these things that we're sharing that I've found that a lot of couples stop making as much of an effort with each other once they're married. Cause it's just like, okay, okay, locked and loaded. I don't need to worry about this. But those same issues are gonna show up. It just makes the breakup a lot more complicated. Because now there's, like, legal papers involved that for me now, growing up with marriage as the pedestal, I would never do a legal marriage again.

Because I was gonna ask you. Yeah. Like, how. Yeah. What do you believe now, having this experience? What is your outlook on marriage?

I think marriage is a beautiful, like, ceremonial joining of two souls. Like, I would do, like, a spiritual marriage. I love parties, so I would definitely have a party again. Probably wouldn't all out, but do it my own way, you know, Even at my wedding, I was so concerned with, like, you. You were one of my bridesmaids, and you saw. But I was so concerned with things like the colors of the flowers. I'm like, it was hot pink. I said coral pink. You know? And it was, like this really stressful thing in my mind, you know, like, what was she thinking? Or, like, the table. Name cards are on the wrong tables. I wanted these people to sit together, but those people sat together and, like, all these little things feel like such a big deal for you at the time. And then the day passes, and it doesn't matter. So like, no, I would never. I would just do it my way and our way and just have friends and community and have it be this multi day like festival of our love and celebration. But would I like have to go to the government and get this legal thing involved? No, because that doesn't mean anything. And I get that, like if, I don't know, I think if someone's never been married before, they really hold onto that and it means a lot. And I have compassion. But sometimes it takes you having that illusion crumble to realize that honestly, love is eternal, but relationships are ever changing.

Yeah. And I love that outlook for you. And if I could say one thing about being with you during this experience is that it's been, and I've said this to you, it's been so inspiring to see you really just own it, you know, and to dive into your healing journey and your transformation and just have that courage to self reflect and to see. I mean, you look, I mean, I know you share stuff here, but I think people, you know, really need to understand the level of your devotion to your growth, you know, and I think it's. I wish more people would do that, especially when they come out of relationships. You know, like you and I have been through. Yes, we're there for each other and all the good things, but we've also been with each other through, you know, hard times and difficult situations. And I think that's another, it's another aspect of a healthy relationship is to be able to be with somebody through a breakup, whether it's a friendship, whether it's a romantic relationship, to see who they are. The people really show you who they are in the middle of the, of a traumatic experience. Right. Or something. That's devastating. And I really feel like all of the work that you're doing and all the work that you're sharing here with everybody is, is you're living it. And I think it's, it's great that you're able to allow yourself to integrate these lessons. And it's very inspiring because I'm learning so much too. In your experience, obviously, in my relationship. Because if not, I mean, think about how complacent two people that have been together for 20 years can be in a relationship. You know, if you don't have people in your life that are constantly growing and showing you who you are, you're gonna be stuck and nothing is ever going to evolve and you're always gonna want something more.

And I think that breakups can be our greatest catalyst for growth because it shakes up your world. And you can choose to, like, not heal and then probably just keep dating the same person again and again and keep having the exact same dynamic. Or you can choose to not just look at the relationship, but look at yourself and the role that you played in it and how you were in it and how it was connected to your childhood, how it's connected to your ancestral lineage. And, I mean, I have been uncovering my entire ancestry through this, learning about my grandmother's divorce that I never even knew had a divorce before and the effect it had on my dad. And, like, all of these things that would have never come to surface. It's healing my whole entire family. And they say when we do this work, we also heal. Seven generations before and seven generations after that I wouldn't have. And it's like, I love who I am and who I'm becoming. And if I didn't have to go through that pressure cooker, yeah, I would have been complacent as well. And I think that sometimes, yeah, when you don't have that breakup, then you remain in that same relationship again and again, and then it ends up drifting, and then you're just living kind of separate lives. And so I'm grateful to be able to share along my teachings with you and everyone here listening and know that my hope is you don't need to have, like, an on your knees moment to change. You know, that we can start to listen to those little intuitive nudges and really learn from each other's experiences and not have to, like. I feel like oftentimes couples don't really communicate until they're, like, on the verge of breakup. You know, often they don't go to therapy until they really need the therapy. And it's like, how can you start doing it beforehand? A relationship can be good. How can I make it great? How can I make it better and better and better without it having to break for me to really look at it?

Yeah, I love that. Let's go back to the potential in Jay Shetty, because you put a pin in it, and I want to close that loop for everybody.

So we were at a soccer game with my friend Lilly Singh, who's. She's been on the podcast before, and Jay Shetty was there, who many of you guys know, podcaster and author, and he just wrote a book on love. So we were chatting with him about love and how him and his wife Rod, they're bitten together. Married for, like, 10 years, I want to say. And, you know, we were just talking About. About dating someone's potential. And he's like, well, Roddy dated my potential because when she met me, I wasn't making an income, really, and I had just left from being a monk, and her family came from wealth, and mine did not. But she saw potential in me, and she loved being with me, and in a way, took a risk and she never could have imagined. It's like she just loved him for him. And here's the difference. She didn't date him for his potential. She dated him because she loved him as he was at that moment of time. And even he never changed. And he was still that broke monk, then she would have still loved him. Whereas some people are like, oh, you might be this job now, but I could see you doing this, this, this, and if you did that, then I would be into you. So that's the difference between dating a potential. Whereas she chose him and saw his potential, and he ended up growing in this way. However, the dynamic of the relationship changed. She maybe thought she was gonna be with someone who was at home all the time, and he's traveling around the world, and, you know, they're still continuing to choose each other. But I think that that's also the important piece of, like, people are gonna change. And are you gonna continue to lean in when it's not what you signed up for?

Yeah, but I think that. Yes, yes. And I also know that when you're in that situation, dating somebody's potential, there has to be the components. There. There has to be the action and the effort. Right? There has to be. I think that's a great way to. To. To key in on whether it'll work for you or not. I can date somebody that, you know, I might not care. It's like, maybe I have more means than they do, but they have the potential, and they're actively working towards something that is already within itself, already moving towards that path.

People are always dating someone's potential because if they were never going to change, then they're a stagnant person.

That's right.

But also, if that person's idea never takes off, would you still try choose them? And that's the difference.

Well, I think here's. I have two examples, and I'm curious to get your take. I had two sets of students. One of them, I was working with her as a coach at the time. She was an actress. He's a screenwriter, and they had been together at that point for 10 years. She had just booked a big show, and so she was starting to work a Lot. And he just continued to be a screenwriter trying to sell and finish his script that he had been working on for, at that point, 10 years. And so again, she stated they were in love and they loved each other's families and all of that. But she was really unhappy because she started to feel after 10 years that he was very complacent and he was very jaded and he was very unmotivated. There was no action, there was no effort. It was just seemingly him just saying that he was working on something and her being complacent about him working on whatever he was working on. And it became an issue and they ended up separating because. And the separation is what it took for him to actually publish his work. And now he's a big screenwriter working on a big show, and they have a relationship now. But at the time, it was almost. She saw the potential, but they maybe weren't meant to be together. And it took that for him to, you know, that catalyst to propel him to his success. Another.

So then they got back together.

No, they didn't. They just ended up being separate. But her big thing, even now when I've chatted with her, is, why couldn't he do that? Cause, you know, he. Whatever. It's the whole thing.

Breakups are the catalyst.

Yeah, breakups are the catalyst. He has now remarried and has a kid. And, you know, she resents that a little bit because she feels like she put so much into it.

And I feel like we're always training our partners for the next one.

I know, it really is. And honestly, if I'm gonna be completely honest, the thing that I say to Tori, we say this to each other. We're like, the reason we stay together is because we're just too lazy to go date. Like, I just would not go on a dating app. And he's like, I would not. And I'm like, I would not. So let's just stay together and let's save ourselves the hassle. And then the other thing is.

Yeah, but you guys also have hot sex.

This is true. We have have off the chain sex.

Can you give us. Can you enlighten us? Because I feel like this is actually the. Let's talk about.

Let's make sure this is a promo so he can see it on your Instagram.

Let's talk about, for a moment keeping attraction going in a long term relationship. Because I feel like you guys have really mastered that.

Yeah.

And what do you think the key is?

The key is hot sex. So it's having hot sex. Yeah, I mean, look, we go through phases. For us, that's our way to connect. You know, I always say so. I'm like, we have nothing in common other than we just are obsessed with. With each other. And we have really great chemistry in bed. And I think that that's really healthy for us. It was that same way in the beginning, and it's the same exact way now.

And the couples I know that have like 10 plus year relationships all say the same thing, that they're prioritizing their intimacy like, multiple times a week. And I'm like, that's what's keeping them connected. Because in a relationship, when you don't have sex for a long time, it's like you just kind of get more irritable with each other. You just disconnected. It just creates more of that roommate dynamic.

If Tor. I don't intimately connect for more than a week and a half, I cannot stand the sight of him. Like, I don't wanna hear him. I don't wanna smell him. I don't wanna hear him sipping his coffee. Like, I'm just like, you need to just go away. But, you know, when we do have that connection, then it's like, oh, I just. I revere him and I'm obsessed with him. And here's the thing, too. After 20 years, you know where all the right buttons are and you train them. That's the other. Well, what I was gonna say before you asked that question was one of the other reasons why I stay is because I've trained this man so perfectly well. He is the perfect man, and I am damned.

He is the perfect lover for you.

I'll be damned if I let that man go to somebody else. I've put way too much time and effort and energy into his whole experience. I'm not gonna take full credit. I mean, he's an amazing person anyway, but.

Yeah, but it's also the full experience for you, right? Because that next person might be like, I hate that you do that. And you have to unlearn and relearn because every single person has different needs.

Different needs. Yeah, but for us, it's. It's where. And look, communication is key. You know, the reason why we have such great sex is because we always communicate with each other. And there have been lulls. I mean, look, it's been 20 years. There's definitely been moments where we've both not been in great places. And our intimacy obviously struggled at that time. Because it's hard if you're not. If you yourself don't feel Attractive. It's hard for you to connect with somebody else if you're feeling insecure, if you feel just not connected to yourself or for him. You know, there was a couple of moments in time where he was going through something really difficult in his business, and it brought his energy down. And those moments are really difficult. But we've been able to navigate those moments and come out on top.

And I think what we're moving into, like, in David Data's work, he talks about the three leg levels of consciousness in men and women. So the first stage, man and woman, is for woman, she's just all about her looks and appearance and finding a rich, successful, sugar daddy kind of guy. And for a man, it's all about money and success and power. And that's first stage. Then second stage, it becomes all about my intellect and my status. And it becomes a lot more like gender neutral in a way. Way of like, I can do anything a man can do. And like a man of like, oh, no, I want to split the bill. And like, and like that. And then it's, I think what majority of people are in right now, it's like, no one's really dating. There just isn't really great connection, you know. And then the third stage. So the first stage is like, I need a man or I need a woman. The second stage is, I don't need a man, I don't need a woman. And then the third stage is I don't need, but I want. And it's. And for woman, it's the quality of aliveness that's attractive. And then for woman, it's the quality of consciousness and presence that's attractive. So a man who's just very present with you is what you really want. And for a man, it's a woman that's very receptive to you. And like, you know, as you're talking to her, she's really feeling you and she's really feeling herself. And she's, you know, we just did a podcast on Tantra and she was saying, like, even just use your sound to be. Be like, I like this feeling or I don't like this feeling. Cause we need feedback. And that's a third. But I feel like we are like collectively moving into a fourth stage, which David Data did not talk about. His books are like 20 years old now, where it's like, you don't need to think about it so much of like, okay, I need to do my polarity practice. Okay, like, I need to come home and change and go on my walk Cause I think even with the polarity stuff, it's role playing and you can't really be yourself and then you're in your head of like, oh my God, was I too masculine? Was I this? Was I. And that's a very masculine thing to be thinking about how feminine you are or are not. So I feel like this fourth stage is what you guys are embodying of. Like you're naturally having that attraction and you go through ebbs and flows and you guys work together and you spend a lot of time in the house together and you make an initiative to go on a trip or spend time apart and do these things. And I feel like that's where we're heading to as a society where we don't. It's like we need to learn and master those things so then we can let go of them.

Yeah, yeah, no, I think that that's absolutely true and it definitely resonates for us because we do have that dynamic. And look, when you're together 24 7, there has to be some separation. You have to have that time and space to miss each other. And I think we've talked about this in the past. And when I do feel those moments arise of, okay, I'm getting tired of this person, or look, I used to say back in the day, I wanna break up with him every other month. Like there's something that happens and I start to think, even 20 years later, is there something else? Is there somebody that's better? Is there somebody that understands me more? Is there somebody out there that I have more in common with? But I think that that's natural. And I like to call that out because I've talked about it before on my podcast and I had some people that disagreed with me saying that. But it's the truth not to say that there's anything bad with me thinking that. I think we always think the mind always wants what's better. It's the nature of the mind. The mind is a future making machine. It calculates risk. It's designed to calculate risk and keep you alive and keep you out of danger, not designed for happiness. So that's the nature of the mind. The mind is always going to go into future projecting or thinking about the. The past. So for me to say that those thoughts don't come in. Absolutely, they come in, you know, I don't act on them, obviously. And if I'm having an issue, I will be the first person to express how I feel. And look, we've been to therapy, we've been on and off with therapy. Like, we. We've had a lot of growth. Even in the last couple of months, we've had huge spurts of growth. And to me, it's like every year, I think I cannot. There's no way I can be closer and more in love with this person. And it happens with every year that passes. We just grow closer and closer together. And it's the same with my friendships. It's the same with my relationships to my family. And it could just be aging, right? It could just be. I'm getting older. I'm forgiving more. My bandwidth is. My bands, as Jason Pfeiffer would say, are widening. And I'm able to be with more than I was before. And I think that's the beauty of time and what you talked about before. Being patient to whatever it is that that relationship is gonna bring for you in the future. Right? To be able to really understand what it is that you want, to be able to voice exactly what you wanna say, to be able to provide that foundation for that new experience for you. But it all starts with our ability to voice our.

And I think most relationships could have worked if there was better communication. It's the communication piece. And we're so afraid of communicating because we're so afraid of abandonment. But then that's actually what creates the abandonment, because we're living a lie. And what inspires me about your relationship with Tori? And I love my comment, Uncle Tor.

Yeah, she does.

But it's like, he doesn't do necessarily the breath work and the ice plunge and the meditation and the conscious thing, but he's so conscious in his way of being. And I think so often a spiritual woman, we're like, okay, I need to find a spiritual man. And we look for the external practices, but it's really about, can you show up in difficult times, can you hold steadfast in times where there is imbalance? You know, when it comes to family members and just situations. Cause it's not just a relationship between two of you. You're actually in relationship with their family, you're in relationship with their work, you're in relationship with their friends. And he has blown me away, by the way, that he has been able to just naturally be conscious through these experiences. Whereas a lot of men in this space, they're wearing the freaking, you know, poncho, but they're not walking the rattle talk.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And ultimately, only going through life experiences and seeing how someone shows up will teach you those things. So I love it. I loved Having you on this podcast, we need to do this, like, every single month. I know, because we share so many just things in our own convers. And the person listening here, you're our third. We love you. Thanks for being our new third bestie.

Oh, yeah, we've been looking for a third.

Yeah, we've been looking for a third. So here you are for them, whoever you are. So thank you so much for being on. And where can people connect with you, listen to your podcast and get your book radically loved?

Oh, my goodness. Just go to Instagram, osiacosta. Everything's there. My links and everything. Just reach out to me. DM me.

Amazing. Well, I love you so much. I met you through this podcast. I know, guys. I met her because I. We were on the same list of, like, top seven podcasts for yogis by Yoga Journal in 2017, and I was like, hey, let's do a little podcast swap. And I remember, like, coming over and Tori was there and he was, like, setting up and making us tea. I was like, oh, such a little sweet man. And, you know, it's been seven years now.

Yeah.

Which is crazy.

We're going through a growth spurt.

We're going through our. Can we survive? Can we navigate? I feel like our second hotter.

I think it is. I don't know. Those voice notes are getting pretty.

Getting raunchier. All right, well, thank you guys so much for tuning in. If you love this episode, please leave a review for it on the itunes store and I will send you my womb meditation, which allows you to connect to your womb's wisdom and receive her answers. So instead of thinking in the mind or trying to figure it out with a pro and con list, tune into your womb's energy, because she knows. So leave a review for the podcast, take a screenshot and email it over to me@saharaamsahararose.com and you can find that in the show notes. And be sure to share this episode. We need more conversations like this. I feel like had I listened to this in my early 20s, I would have definitely saved myself some struggles. And all of us, we're kind of going on autopilot when it comes to attraction. So when we take a moment to really tune in and be like, what am I calling in? What does marriage mean to me? Who am I attracted to? And where is this heading? And how can this work long term? And how can I communicate to make it work? It's like all your life problems will be solved right there in this episode, so be sure to share it. Thank you so much for tuning in. I'll see you in the next one.

J.