513: Let's Get Kinky - A Step-by-Step on How To Do It Consciously with Yossef Sagi

I'm curious about how kink is used for healing trauma, because I see a lot of people actually go into it as a. It's like an embodiment practice that you go into something that maybe was heavier in your life and you recreate it to then choose it rather than it having happened to you. So can you share? Cause I know a lot of your work as a coach is trauma healing with this.

That's right. It's a deeply somatic practice. So I can give you an example. Let's say there's someone who, when they were a child, they were beaten severely by their father. He took a belt in them and just, like, walloped them and left them in the closet. And the mother never did anything to support him. Okay. This is a true experience from a client that I worked with. So what the person may choose to do and what happened in this situation is instead of being a victim to that, even though in life they were a victim, but instead of choosing to remain a victim to it, you choose what happened to you. So they might come into a scene and then choose to be with a dom that holds a safe space for them and to go back and have that dom play their father and hit them with the belt. But now they're asking for it every time, and they say when to start and when to stop. It puts them in control of the situation.

Welcome back to the Highest Self podcast. My name is Sahara Rose, and on this podcast, I love taking spirituality and making it modern, fun, sexy, grounded, so it can actually serve the needs of today's people. If you haven't noticed, my journey really has been a lot around sacred sexuality. It's something I'm so interested in. It's definitely the greatest trauma in my lineage, but also our greatest gift. Cause we fucking sexy in here. And I love bringing on guests who have really helped me open, open, and blossom in new ways. My friends and personal teachers. And you're gonna hear one of these today. So let's talk a little bit about kink. To be honest, when I took my erotic blueprint quiz a few years ago, the one I was the least in was kink. I didn't even understand it. I was like, I don't get. Like, someone wants pain. Like, why would you want that? Like, I wanna feel good, I wanna feel worshiped. And it just didn't make any sense to me. However, I started to open up and understand more and more of it through listening to podcasts and with my friends. And I started to see how on the other side of Something that might even feel painful or restrictive is actually this great liberation and pleasure on the other side. So this dear friend of mine who is like, so there for me throughout my divorce, Yosef is like, he's a professional dom, guys. Like, straight up, he is a professional dom. And he's a dear friend of mine, Natalie's partner. And he's so wise and so learned about this subject. So I wanna bring him on this podcast to talk about conscious kink and integrating it with tantra, which a lot of us think there's like, tantra on one end, which is very, like, sensual and slow and eye gazing and sacred, and then like kink, which is like, rough and dirty and like, you gotta be a freak if you like that. And they're like these opposite ends of the spectrum. And what he does so beautifully is he really integrates the two. So we're gonna learn about how to use power dynamics and different tools on our with partners, both sexually and even not sexually as well, is something I've learned a lot about the kink space. So without further ado, let's welcome Yosef here on the podcast.

Thank you for having me. It's an honor to be here.

The first question I'd love to ask you is, what makes you your highest self?

I think what makes me my highest self, and it's why I got to tantra and it's why I got to bdsm, is I have a constant desire to understand myself better. I want to know why I do what I do. I want to know why I have these patterns. I'm always looking to integrate all. All these different aspects. I don't feel there's anything to change or to fix or that there's anything wrong. But I want to integrate all these different parts so that I can become a more whole person. So as time has gone on, I've become more and more whole, and what's highest self if not that?

And that is exactly what I feel the kink space does. It causes us to question, well, why do we like that thing and what's underneath there? So can you share a little bit about how we can make kink more conscious?

Yeah. I love that you actually posed this question of tantra versus kink, and they seem so different. The more and more that I study them. I see how similar they are actually. And kink is probably the most conscious type of sex that exists out there right now. More than tantra, more than any other type, because of the sheer level of communication that happens around BDSM scenes I think the gift of the kink community is bringing in consent, communication, boundaries, desires, communicating all these different things to. To create a safe space for expression.

It's so true. Like, you know, you did this session on me and we were talking, I was like, oh my God. Like, I would never have the courage to be like, do this, do that, do that. And I'm learning that in the kink space, this explicit communication, it's an integral part of it, because you wouldn't be able to play out these scenes and these fantasies if you don't have really direct communication. But a lot of us, we don't. You know, for me, a lot of it was like, I don't want to come off as controlling. Right. So then you're silent and then you're not getting what you want, and that partner's not giving which they want to satisfy you, and it's just giving up more unconscious sex.

That's right. And there's this fallacy about the idea of the submissive, that they're supposed to be passive. A submissive isn't passive. A submissive is active in their surrender and in their communication of their desires. The last submissive that Adam wants to work with is one that says, I don't know what I want because that's where the danger is. That's when you start playing in the minefield. You have to be very clear about what you want and then let go of how you think it's supposed to get there.

And that's the surrender that's so fascinating because I was having a conversation with some friends the other day with Natalie as well, and a lot of women were like, I just want to be the sub and not think and like, let him just like do everything and take over. But then, yeah, you shared with me a lot of what a dom actually wants is someone to tell them, I want this and this and that, so then they can be of service. So can you share a little bit about how the dom is actually really here to be of service to the subject?

Absolutely. And where this all really ties back into, especially when you have a male domme with a female sub, is just that historically men have had a lot of privilege in their self expression, especially around their sexuality, and women haven't had that same amount. When a woman expressed her sexuality, she was shamed. Right. Slut, shaming. And so the service, the greatest service that the dom provides for the sub is creating a permission field for the sub to be in her full expression. It's holding space. It's what Every feminine wants from her masculine is to be held. And the new paradigm that's coming in is, I'm a woman now, I'm making my own money. I don't need you to support me financially. I don't need you to control me. I don't need you to keep me safe. What I need you to do is to hold a container so I can be in my full expression. That's all of my emotions, all of my sexuality, everything. And I wanna know that you're not going to be terrified by it. I wanna know that you're going to honor it and hold that for me.

That's hot.

That's right.

It's so true. Because when you experience those deeper levels of safety in that container, it's like new levels of wildness open up within you that you just couldn't. And I think the feminine kind of tests of like, can I, can I show this much? Can I show this much? Can I show that much? And we can feel how much we can be held. So my question is, what if your partner is not on this like tantric conscious sex path? Is there anything we can do?

I believe where it's cliche, but where there's a will, there's a way. The person just has to be willing to do the work. There's a lot of times what happens is in a relationship is one person does so much work on themselves that they outgrow the relationship. If the other person is too terrified to look at themselves first, there's probably not a chance that it'll work. But if the person is willing to do their own personal work, then they can meet in a container together. Be it tantra, be it bdsm. There's a lot of different modalities, but there needs to be a will for it to happen.

So foreplay begins in the mind. But the thing is, the majority of erotic content was designed for and by the male perspective. Whereas women, on the other hand, our needs and desires are a little bit different. We want storytelling, we want imagination, but we are still hella sexy and turned, turned on. So this is why I love Dipsea. So they have these gorgeous body positive stories that are erotic, made by women for women. So every kind of flavor imaginable, whether you want a sexy hot summer romance or maybe something with your teacher or whatever else it is, they got that story for you. So they are giving listeners a 30 day free trial. So you can head over to dipseastories.com Sahara Again, that's Dipsea. D I P S E A stories.com Sahara to get 30 days of free, sensual, erotic, super hot and juicy stories. Don't say I didn't warn you. Your walks are about to get turned up. So I want to talk about some different tools that we can bring in just to start playing with it. So the first one is the rope, and you brought some with you here today. So can you bring out a rope and tie me up and show the audience? And for those of you who are watching this on Spotify or on YouTube, you can watch long and him doing it. First of all, what is the significance of the rope? Like, I feel like when we think of kink, we think of someone being tied up. What is this about?

So, as the domme, there's two things that you're doing to your sub. You're containing them and you're penetrating them. And that's what the feminine desires from the masculine. To be contained and held and then to be penetrated. Only after the containment is there a lot of time. There's a rush towards the penetration. And so containment happens with your energy, it happens with your beingness. And it can be supported through the B part of bdsm, which is bondage, which includes rope or cuffs or even blindfolding as a type of bondage or gagging. And there's a lot of different ways. And so the rope acts as a surrogate to support the dom in creating containment for the sub.

Okay, so how do we start working with the rope? Can you show us, like, a basic rope tie?

Yes, I can show you the most basic rope tie that anyone can do.

Okay.

Although there's a lot more fun ones at home.

Rope tie, yes.

You prefer black or red?

Let's go with red. Baby red. Flamin Hot.

So the first thing you want to do with the rope is we're always working with a rope that we fold in half. We get the double length on it, and we're always looking for the middle. So you hold it at the ends, then you pull till you find the middle. It's called the bight. For this particular tie, it's a very simple tie. What we're going to do is we're going to find the middle, and then we're going to create an equidistant, sort of like an M shape around. And the most easy tie that you can do is you just take these two loops and then you spin them in your hands a few times just like this. And then you create a double loop here, both your hands through. And this creates a very simple slip knot. That anyone can do. And so if I pull on it a little bit, you feel held by that experience. If I'm as the dom, I let go of that. There's less safety. So you always want to make sure that the rope is taut. Then the sub feels held in experience. And I also always like to remind my subs, particularly with this knot, it's a very easy release. If you ever need to get out of it, it just slips right out. So that's the simplest of the ties.

Yeah. I think there's something that the feminine desires, especially because we're so in our masculine all the time or in our heads, we're working, we're in control of a lot to literally be unable to do. And I think also sexually, a lot of us, like, have a hard time to not be, like, touching that other person back because we feel like if someone's giving, we must give back. So it's something about the literal containment of you can't. You must just receive and be taken. That's what makes it alluring.

That's right. So many women are programmed that their sexuality is to serve men and to please men. So first of all, it takes that off the table, like you said. And second of all, you know, you might say, oh, well, I don't get to choose as the sub. I don't have a choice. First of all, you always are a choice of entering into the situation. But. But another way to think of it is you don't have to choose. You don't have to make one more decision today. I got you. I'm going to take care of this. And if you're doing that with someone that you trust and you know that they got you, and you know that they've devoted themselves to this journey that they've created for you, that's the ultimate surrender. Because a good Dom is himself surrendered to the divine working through him. It's not about my attachment to what I want. There's something bigger working here. And a sub knows when Adam is in that space. And it's not about what he wants and that he's doing it for himself when he's in a place of service. And then she feels the divine working through him.

There's something that's so hot about someone who has your best interest at heart. And because of that, like, you don't always get what you want, but you get what you need. And I've been really toying with the philosophy that God is my dominant and that, like, God is always guiding me and sees things from A higher view that I can't. And sometimes it's like, yeah, I gotta go through the muck. I gotta go through the pain. But God's got my back. Sky Daddy up there knows that my greatest pleasure's on the other side. So sometimes I'm a little bit restricted. Cause I know from there I'm going to be ravished with all of the blessings that I desire.

That's exactly right. And all Sky Daddy wants from you is your submission.

Oh, yes. Okay. You brought some other toys. Can you tell us about this flogger here?

So these here are floggers. And a lot of time, probably what you see with BDSM or what people assume. I'm gonna take this. I'm gonna whip someone till it hurts them. And that is one way to use them. But my floggers in particular are sensual floggers. And I think of these as tools to regulate someone's nervous system. When I use these floggers, it activates the parasympathetic nervous system by flooding the system with oxytocin. And then occasionally, they'll get a spicy hit where adrenaline comes into. But it comes in a place of such deep rest and surrender, that pain becomes pleasure in that place. So this actually creates a hypnotic state for the sub and really helps them to sink deeper and deeper into what we call that subspace. And for me, as a domme, it puts me in a state of flow. When you look at it, it looks actually very artistic, the way that it's used. It's almost like with a poi, the way that you play with it. And that's the gift to the. Is to be in flow into the. For the sub to be in surrender.

The more I dive into my voice and my expression, the more fun I can have on the podcast with conversations like this because I feel confident in my ability to use my voice. And I want you to feel the same to share your unique magic sauce with the world, because we need all of it. So if you feel like you have a message, a story that you want to share, but you just don't feel confident as a speaker, I have created a revolutionary model called Speak with Soul. Now, this can take anyone from an awkward to a confident speaker in just 21 days, 10 minutes a day, I teach you everything from how to create a story arc, how to understand what type of speaker you are, the tone, texture, quality of your voice, and so much more. The success stories are insane. You can check them out on the website and get started at speakwithsoulcourse.com again, that's speakwithsoulcourse.com and you can find that link in the show notes. Now let's get you sharing your message. My friend Alexa, who was on this podcast, who, you know, teaches in various sexual spaces, she did a flogging session on me, and it was really interesting because it was almost like fireworks. Like, it was like these rhythmic kind of little slaps with it, and then. Yeah, like sometimes a bigger firework or like, littler ones. And she had me before say, what's like, out of a 1 to 10, like, the different sensations. So she always knew, like, what was this? It was a six or like, how much do you want to go? And it definitely really brought me back into my body. And it was this great, like, exhale and this great release. But it wasn't sexual in any way, actually. Like, I had my clothes. I changed her. She's like a pregnant girlfriend of mine, you know? But it was, like, such a cool way to, you know, a lot of us think, oh, I need to drop into my body. I have to do, like, yoga or workout or something. But you can just flog your friends, guys. It's a new way of doing it.

She sounds like a great dom. And actually the best. One of my favorite explanations of what it works like, is when you hold a baby over your shoulder and you just tap them on the back rhythmically.

It was.

And it relaxes them and puts them to sleep. Natalie sometimes has me do this to her before bed to help her relax and go to bed.

I love that. So what is this other little spanker thing we have over here? Is this the cane?

There's a lot. No, I don't have the cane.

Okay.

I have a few other things.

Okay.

So these two tools over here. This one's a crop. It looks like a riding crop. Right. And I brought it because it's another impact tool, like many other impact tools, but this one reminds me of discipline, which is the D in bdsm. And a lot of what BDSM is about is we know that we crave to have freedom, but we're also afraid that we're going to hurt ourselves if we're too free. But then if we are disciplined by our dommes, and we know that they put boundaries in place, they create a safety net, then we can truly be free. So I brought this as a tool because oftentimes you'll think it's sort of like when you crop a horse or a teacher having a crop. So that's the idea Here. And this is a paddle. And this along with my hand are actually some of the fun tools for spanking, which again, is tied to discipline. But the reason I brought the paddle is because this one particularly says love on it. And that's something important to remember. And you can actually leave this mark on someone. And it's important to remember that whatever you do in that container that you set, a scene that you set will be from a place of love, even if it looks like extreme pain. And there's are. And there are some extreme scenes that I've been a part of. It always comes from a place of love and service.

So I'm curious about how kink is used for healing trauma, because I see a lot of people actually go into it as a. It's like an embodiment practice that you go into something that maybe was heavier in your life and you recreate it to then choose it rather than it having happen to you. So can you share? Because I know a lot of your work as a coach is trauma healing with this.

That's right. It's a deeply somatic practice. So I can give you an example. Let's say there's someone who, when they were a child, they were beaten severely by their father. He took a belt on them and just like walloped them and left them in the closet. And the mother never did anything to support him. Okay. This is a true experience from client that I worked with. So what the person may choose to do and what happened in this situation is instead of being a victim to that, even though in life they were a victim, but instead of choosing to remain a victim to it, you choose what happened to you. So they might come into a scene and then choose to be with a dom that holds a safe space for them and to go back and have that dom play their father and hit them with the belt. But now they're asking for it every time. And they say when to start and when to stop. It puts them in control of the situation. And then in the aftercare portion of this particular scene that I did, there's always an aftercare portion. I switched and transitioned into the mom role. So now I held this person in my arms as a mom in a way that he never got held. He had to learn to self regulate. But in this case, he got to be held by me as his mom. So it reprogrammed the situation. Now you can really go crazy with this scene and you can say, now I want to be the dad. I want to put myself in his shoes. I Want to see what it's like to hurt somebody else, but it's in a consensual situation. So you can play all kinds of different dynamics, and it's almost like doing aspecting of a situation. You see the different sides, and it can create a tremendous amount of healing when done right.

It sounds very similar to family constellations work, you know, when you do it in a group setting, you play the different roles of your parents and your grandparents. And then when you step into that, all of a sudden you're acting like the rage of your dad or the wounding of your grandfather. And it's very edgy work, you know, and it's definitely not for everyone. It has to be something that you're choosing to go into. But I do think it's sort of like improv. And when you're acting something, you gain awarenesses and understanding that role in a way that you wouldn't have just from your perspective, because you're literally stepping into someone else's shoes. And I do think a lot of wounding has also happened around sexuality, you know, and it is a powerful way to put yourself in this position of choice and control and power. When many of us, especially as children, as teenagers, a lot of sexual encounters were not our choice. So this is just such powerful work for this.

Yeah.

So for people who are maybe in a partnership, that there is a desire for more power dynamics, for more polarity. How can we start to just bring that into the relationship? Even before the bedroom, because you shared with me, the dom role really starts, like, way back before the scene.

Yeah. So working, particularly in a BDSM scene, the scene itself is the middle of the sandwich. And I already hinted at the part that comes after, which is the aftercare, which is decided upon at the beginning. And that beginning part before the scene is the negotiation. So that's where the communication comes into play. And I've created my own negotiation documents. When you'll find them with any person who does this work, they usually create their own. And sometimes just looking at these documents can be extremely illuminating and triggering because you're like, oh, wow, look at all these different things that can happen. Now, if you're in a partnership and you start having communication around that, then you learn a lot about each other. So some of the work that I've done with couples, a lot of times they think that something's not working with their intimacy or their sexuality, and it's because they're not talking about it. They're not talking about what they want. And I can come out of one session with them and they're like, wow, I didn't know that you had that part of the. You and others are like, you never asked. And you're like, well, I never said. And so that communication, and that starts by really eradicating the shame around your own sexuality.

I think that's so powerful because a lot of people are in relationships where they don't actually really know what the other person wants. And they're both playing roles, thinking that that's what the other person desires. So having a form where maybe like all options are out there. And yeah, it can be like, wait, what's pussy slapping? Huh? Like, you know, there's all these weird things on there, but because we've just never. And there still is so much shame around sexual expression out there. But then putting to the table, like, what are your fantasies and what are the greatest things? Cause it's like, what a great gift of service to be able to have your partner have like their ultimate fantasy happen and to have yours and do it in a way that's consensual and safe and fun. And it can really bring couples together in such a closer way. And I feel like, take relationships to the next level. But it requires that honesty and that communication, which I think is ultimately what we fear is the abandonment that might happen of like, if I really share what I wanted, they'll think I'm too much, too weird, too whatever. And it's releasing those stories because we are all here to be explorative and playful.

I truly believe that if you have a desire in you, God planted that desire in you. And you know, being in this field for a while, I've heard some pretty out there types of desires. And so you might be like, well, how. How is that okay? How is that divine? The question isn't whether or not you can step into the desire, it's how you can do it. And as soon as something is consensual and like really truly planned consciously, then you can play all kinds of scenes. You can even play a scene that seems to have betrayal, but you're really role playing with your own partner, right? So you can explore those dynamics. If you're in a monogamous relationship by doing role play, you can explore a lot of different things that would normally be taboo. But it starts, you know, if the desire isn't expressed even just verbally, any repressed desire will find an unhealthy way to express itself. It's going to come out one way or another. So why not speak about it, and then why not find a way to create a container to bring that to life in a healthy way?

So. Agreed. Ugh. This is such powerful work and thank you for sharing it with such, like, grace. And you're so educated about it and you really carry this grounded and very spiritual and wise. But you're also like, yeah, let's bring in the ropes and the this and the that, and you carry the full spectrum. And we definitely have to have you back on and dive more into these things. I'm very much a newbie in this world, so hopefully next time you come on, I'll be more experienced. And I'm also very interested in, like, yeah, like, learning more about the psychology of this because it is. I'm seeing it come into the collective a lot more. Like, a lot more people are talking about kink as a form of healing, and I do feel like it is sort of on this next frontier of the somatic healing movement. So thank you for being a pioneer and for really doing this work for so long. And where can listeners connect with you? Further?

The best way to follow me is on my instagram. It's Yosef Sagi or my website, www.yosefsaghi.com. you just gotta spell it right. I'm the only one.

Perfect. Well, thank you guys so much for tuning in. If you love this episode, please share it. Share with your partner. Maybe this is your way of introducing this. Of like, hey, I listened to this episode. It's kind of interesting. You want to, like, check it out, like. And I also ordered some ropes and handcuffs and chains Whips and chains Handcuffs my little booty up in my belt scream help. That's a song. Whenever I think of kingside comes up.

I thought I were gonna do Rihanna's.

S and m S s s S n n n Feel so good being bad oh oh oh oh oh so many songs about it. So it just shows that now we get to integrate it into everything else and again, not see that separation, but rather tantra is to weave and to become one with. So share the episode. Please leave a review for it in the itunes store. Share with me any questions you have. If you wanna have yosef back on, what would you like to talk to him about? And as a free gift, I will send you my free womb meditation. So this is meditation to connect to your sacred womb space and receive her wisdom. So take a screenshot. Email it over to me@saharaimsahararose.com you can find that link in the show. Notes, notes. Again, thank you for tuning in. I'll see you in the next one.