531: Chemistry vs Compatibility in Dating + Relationships with Rosie Acosta

I think that's what is also messing with our chemistry is like we are now exposed to the entire world.

Yeah.

So it's like that person is never gonna be enough because there's someone else. Some influencer you follow, some guy that you follow that gives relationship advice. Whoever the person is that you're always gonna compare them to and. Cause you don't know them, you're like, oh, well, I don't know Jason Momoa wouldn't have treated me like that. You don't know Jason Momoa, you know.

No, he wouldn't have treated you like that.

But he wouldn't have.

He wouldn't have. He wouldn't have.

If you wanna make it work, we can trust flow, surrender let go Trust flow, surrender let go Trust, flow, surrender let go. I'm the one I've been waiting for. Welcome back to the Highest self podcast. This is the podcast where we like to get saucy, spicy, lit up in here with our spiritual journeys. Because that's how we do it, baby. We keep it sexy, we keep it fun, we keep it relatable. And this is a monthly fan fave where I bring on my bestie, Rosie. So we basically have our voice notes aired to the entire Internet through this podcast. So welcome here. We love diving deep into relationships because we are codependent, serial, monogamous. Really don't know anything about dating.

But we try the blinds leading the blinds.

The blind leading the blind. The blonde leading the blonde. So a little background. I was in a seven and a half year relationship, she's currently in a 20 year relationship. And I'm newly single the past year. And I've learned a lot because truth be told, I did not really date at all before my marriage. And so we've been learning together, her and I, and we've learned a lot. And for fun, we talk about philosophies on love and life and psychology and where is relationship going? And you know, every time we would talk we're like, we need to, like, we need to share this with people. Like, people need to know. Especially like if you're like, I really want to have these conversations with a friend. But like, none of my friends can really get down like that. Like this, this. Welcome to the tribe. You're our new third. So something we've been like talking about that, like, I love these conversations where we haven't really thought out what we're going to say at all. But it's this concept in dating on chemistry versus compatibility and how a lot of relationship coaches out there are now talking about how you actually should not go for the person that you have the most chemistry with, because that could be a TR trauma bond. However, if you don't have chemistry, well, what's actually going to be motivating you to continue to go on dates? And how are you going to have sex with this person if there's no chemistry? And then what are the things that are actual, like, compatibility points? Like, sometimes in our head, we think, oh, I need to be compatible with someone that, like, does the same job that I do. And it's like, well, what are the actual things that make you compatible in a relationship? Which actually may have nothing to really do with interests? And before we get into this conversation, I would love if you would hit subscribe on this podcast. This is the best way for you to stay tuned on future episodes, and it helps raise the vibration of the planet. So wherever you're listening to this podcast, hit subscribe and we'll keep the good juju flowing. So without further ado, here's Rosie Acosta. And let's dive in.

Let's do it, bmic. What it do, baby?

What it do?

First of all, I love that we're cutting out the point where you interrupted my meditation and they started laughing about it.

I've never seen her meditate on the podcast before. She's just sitting there closing her eyes, but, like, kind of, like smiling and trying not to laugh. I'm like, are you meditating? Crying? We were, like, laughing, and then she just started meditating. It was like, interesting. Do you do that with your boyfriend?

I do.

Is that the secret to the.

Yeah, that is the secret.

Just meditate when you're in a fight.

So that you just have to take a beat. You have to take a beat. You really do have to walk away, you know, breathe, stretch, shake, let it go. I love what you're saying. I mean, this has been a topic, I think, for a very long time.

It's the theme of the year, so.

But I'm. I'm curious with this idea of chemistry versus compatibility and how often if you just choose the chemistry that innately or fundamentally, it might have some trauma bonding.

Little trauma zest in there.

Just a little bit. A little bit of trauma budding. So is it. How do you find the happy medium of, like, enough chemistry, but also to see and make sure that it's not a trauma bond? I guess I. I'd be curious to see how chemistry works without the trauma bonding, because it's like, I'm. We're not going to break this down. But where is the chemistry even coming from?

Well, let's break down. What is chemistry?

Okay.

In a relate. Like, how I see chemistry in dating is like, there's a curiosity of, like, there's something in me. Like, I'm curious, I want to learn more, I want to lean in. I want to ask you more questions. Like, I want to know how you think. So it's not coming from, like, the difference of dating of like, hey, like, do you want to get married? Do you want to have kids? Like, how many siblings do you have? Blah, blah. Like the interview, right, where it feels like, this is what I'm. I'm looking for something. I'm looking for a role in my life. These are the questions I think I'm supposed to ask. And there's no chemistry there, and it becomes this, like, deposition essentially. Right, right. Versus when you have chemistry with someone, you just want to know those things.

Yeah.

You're like, and. But the things you want to know aren't necessarily how many kids you want to have in this. It's like, how do you think? How do you feel? Tell me about your childhood. It's like this new person is so fascinating to you, and so the chemistry will bring you to those questions, but it's coming from an innate form of curiosity.

Yeah. So I love that because that makes total sense. I think for me, chemistry is more of a magnetic draw. So I guess it could also have some of the same curiosity innately. But I think for me, it's more of the. I'm drawn to you in a more sort of like, I don't know, there is something about you that's really drawing me in. It's not necessarily a, oh, I want to get to know where. Yeah, you do want to get to know where that's coming from. But also it's something unexplainable. There's just something really vibey about the person and you just feel like you want more and more. I think that's where the trauma bonding could maybe come in. Because if you don't know, you can't discern whether you're wanting too much. And it's going into the love bomby kind of route.

So I think this whole, like, trauma bond thing has been so overused.

Let's talk about it.

Yeah. Like, okay, if we as humans did not have a spark with someone, like, what's the fucking point of love? Because then that just becomes an intellectual decision of just like, hey, I feel absolutely nothing towards you, but you fit this criteria. So Maybe if I spend enough time with you, I'll convince myself that I like you. And that's actually going back to like the arranged marriage model.

Yeah.

Of like, well, this is the person you're supposed to marry, so you grow in love. And we've like, doted that in our society to be like this higher thing that like. Oh, no, chemistry is for the kids. Right. Like, go for the person that you're the most compatible with. That's the mature love. And I have seen that happen. Like, you know, and we're going to take many different stances here because there's no one right size fits all. But I'm just going to be a little pro chemistry right now.

Okay.

I believe that that chemistry is coming from a soul recognition that your soul's know each other. And, you know, there's some dance you're supposed to dance. And maybe that dance is gonna bring out some really dark shadows. Maybe it's gonna take you to some highs and it's probably gonna bring out your traumas because guess what? Everything in life brings out your traumas. Our friendship brings out each other's traumas. Not in a negative way. But, babe, we talk about our traumas all the time.

We.

We talk about our parents, we talk about this. We. He. We help heal each other with that. There's nothing that's gonna bring out your traumas more than a romantic relationship, a hundred percent. So if you're not getting deep, well, you're not loving, you know, so I see chemistry as like, you know, when I think about my. With my ex, when I met him, my soul knew, this is the person that I'm going to marry. And I was accurate in that. And, you know, there was a lot of love and then a lot of pain as well. But I believe it was so divine and that was meant to happen. And it helps me become this version of me, who I am today. And our souls, like, when we saw each other, it was this instant like, yep, we're doing this.

Yeah.

And I would never regret that. I would never take that back. Whereas someone could be like, oh, my God, it was a trauma bond I shouldn't have. And it's like, well, then you wouldn't have learned those lessons that helped bring you to where you are today. So it's like, first, it's not the love that brings out the trauma, it's the trauma that's there. And it's gonna come out especially with love. And also, I believe we're drawn to certain people for certain lessons in certain Timeframes. Some people the chemistry might be for one night.

Some.

Some people it might be for one month. You know, you might be pulled to someone. And, you know, I've. I've felt this experience of you're pulled to someone, then you realize quickly you're meant to be friends, you know, and then your relationship is so much better off as friends. But without that initial draw to each other, you probably would have never explored the friendship. Right. And where the friendship could have taken you. I think also when it's like straight man and straight woman, oftentimes when you are magnetized to each other, you just think it must be romantic. Not always, but it's like, often it's like, you're single, I'm single, I think you're good looking, you think it's like the first place you're gonna go likely is romantic. And often, I mean, it's not meant to be that, but it's that chemistry that's just like we're supposed to do something together. But maybe it's be in each other's business. Maybe it's, you know, do this other thing.

Not necessarily a romantic relationship.

And I think ultimately chemistry is a sexual spark as well.

Okay.

That when you feel that magnetism, that drawn to someone, your body is like, I want to procreate with this person.

Don't you think that that has more to do with compatibility, though, than chemistry? I think chemistry, initially, you could definitely.

Be attracted to people you're not compatible with.

Yeah, no, I'm saying that that's. That's the case. Like, you could be attracted to people you're not compatible with, but can you have good sex with somebody that you're not compatible with?

Well, I think compatibility and relationship and sexuality are two different things.

Yeah.

Yeah. So you might be not relationally compatible, but have amazing sexual compatibility.

Right.

But I think the chemistry is sexual compatibility. Like, it's not. It's a sexual curiosity. You know, that like when you kiss someone, do you feel something? Do you want more or do you feel nothing? Like, if you feel nothing, sure, you could keep trying to kiss them forever, and then maybe one day you'll, like, train yourself to feel something. But, like, likely there's no spark because your bodies are not turned on by each other. Your, you know, hormones are not feeding off of each other, and your souls are not recognizing each other for this greater thing. So I think we, like, demonize chemistry a lot, but I think it's actually really needed, especially in the initial stage of a relationship, to like, keep seeing Each other, keep making the time, keep doing the groundwork setting. And then after, like, you know, they say around two years is when that initial, like hormonal like dopamine charge.

Oh, God. I would say way before that, my experience, it was.

I mean, I always felt that though. But I would say two years. I really felt so much constant chemistry, you know, for me. Yeah. But then you've built so much groundwork with each other from that that that then sets you up for the compatibility. Because compatibility is a lot more learning, right. Chemistry, you can't really learn that, right?

Yeah, you can't teach that. It's like you can't teach somebody to be a magnetic person.

Right.

I mean, you can aspire to be a magnetic person. But we talked about this before in the Magnetic how to Be Magnetic, which we'll link below. Such a good one podcast. I think that there is definitely something that you can't control. I like what you said about having it be a more soul recognition.

Do you hear the song playing in the background? That's my voice. Yes. My new song, Be the Vibe, is now out. This song really shares my story of overcoming my divorce and awakening the goddess in me and remembering who I used to be, letting go of the adversity and tuning into simplicity because this life was meant to be free. Those are some of the lyrics. And you know, for me, my musical journey has been majorly stepping into my voice. Like growing up, I was always told, oh, you're such a bad singer, don't sing. And I just never felt comfortable in that medium. But I've always been very musical. I was a dancer, I was a pianist. And it just feels so good coming back home into production. I produce all of these songs as well as write, sing, and soon to be rapping in them as well. So you can stream Be the Vibe wherever you listen to music on Spotify, on Apple. This is the perfect song to just like get you in the zone. Whether you're taking your hot girl walk or you're relaxing during the holidays or you just need a little morning pick me up to get your mind in the right vibe. This morning song is for you so you can find the link in the show notes. And I'm so excited to share a piece of my heart with you. This episode is sponsored by Better Help. So one of my New Year's intentions is to have better relationships. I'm talking about those relationships where I feel deeply heard, met, valued, seen. I can do the same for the other person because let's be real, I Don't think any of us want surface level connections, but it really takes vulnerability, emotional intelligence and diving deep and, you know, sometimes going out on a limb to have these types of connections. And honestly, it begins with your connection with yourself. I feel like I'm able to have such deeper connections with others where it's. Whether it's friendships or relationships. Because I've dove into myself with therapy. And this is why I highly recommend every single person on planet Earth get a therapist. So if you're interested in getting started, I highly recommend BetterHelp. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule. You just fill out a brief questionnaire online and you're matched with a licensed therapist and you can try different ones to find your soulmate therapist. So celebrate the progress you've already made and get ready for 2024. It's about to be off the charts. By visiting betterhelp.com Sahara to get 10% off your first month. That's better. Help. H e l p.com Sahara you can find that link in the show notes and the chemistry might not be your first time meeting. Here's the thing that I think. We think chemistry is like, the first time I meet you, I should feel something. If not, there's no chemistry. But back in the day, like, we would be like in school with each other or working at the same job or in the same village and we might have seen each other a hundred times. Maybe that 101st time I look at you a different way or I've been developing a little crush on you and then all of a sudden there's the spark. Whereas we often don't do that in our society because we work remotely. We are meeting people on apps. You give that person one try and if it's not a good first date, you call the whole thing off. So maybe the chemistry could have grown with time. So it doesn't necessarily mean chemist. Yes. Often the first time you meet someone, you can think, could I ever be with this person or not? But it is like, maybe you're like, I, I could see how they're attractive, but like, I'm not attracted to them. And then like three years later be.

Yeah. So what you're saying is that not only chemistry is being demonized in a way in our current culture with talking about relationships, but also that the current modern era is ruining the opportunity to have chemistry.

Because you can't have chemistry on an app.

Yeah, you can't. This is my big issue. We've talked about this before. With people meeting online because there's so many things that you can't see. You can't feel chemistry over a text, not in an app. You're not in person. And back in the day, back in the day, back in my day, back in the day, you actually had to go do things in person. The problem with doing things in person now is that everybody's looking down, everybody's on their phone.

AirPods are the destruction of chemistry. I notice at the gym everyone's an AirPod so no one hits on each other. Back in the day they're blasting music so you could walk up to someone and strike a conversation. So now I actually like purposely will like take my AirPods off and like stretch or do something to like open up space for a potential conversation to happen.

Yeah.

No one's gonna like stop you and like take your AirPods out.

Yeah. There should be like place designated places where you're not allowed to have a phone and you're not allowed to have AirPods on or be.

Everyone's in their own universe with these AirPods.

Yeah. It kills that innate chemistry that we can have with each other, even as friends. Right. Because if we're not able to see each other then flexions in somebody's V or see their slight idiosyncrasies, we're not able to connect with that person fully who that person is, because you're just seeing one facet of them and we're so multifaceted. So it, it definitely does create a bigger obstacle with meeting people and having chemistry, you know, and I, I do like what you're saying about something developing over time because I think that, I don't know, for me and my experience, I can only speak again to my experience. But you know, when Tori and I first met, we were friends. We weren't, you know, I had a crush on him because.

Did you feel chemistry towards him?

Not in the beginning, I didn't.

But did you feel an attraction towards him?

Well, he's an attractive man, so I thought he was good looking, but that's as far as it went.

Like he's good looking in general or I'm attracted to him.

I just thought he was good looking. Like that was it. It wasn't like, I mean. Cause there was a lot of other good looking men that would be around too. So it was, you know, and I'm in my 20s, so I was. And I wasn't really looking for a relationship at that time. I was just wanting to have fun. But Torey and I had known Each other for a year before we went out on a first date. And even the first date, it wasn't even a date. Like, we had an extra ticket to a concert, and he was single at the time, and he got invited to come along and be, like, the fourth wheel. And it just. We ended up talking all night. Like, he sat next to me, you know, because we were there with my. My friend Erica and another friend of hers, and they were longtime friends, so they were kind of talking. And Erica had known that I had a crush on Torey, So she's like, you go. Like, go. Go talk to him. But there was no instant chemistry that you could say, like, oh, we were just. We had a really great conversation, and we were very engaged in what we were talking about. We were starting to find that we liked the same things. We were into similar music. I mean, not fully, but we were, you know, into the same music. And he was very open. And the thing that really helped us was that we had a lot of mutual friends. Like, there was people that knew him that I knew, and those people that he knew that knew me. And so that sort of, like, knowing that I'm talking to a good person was already, you know, he wasn't some stranger on that, you know, so that night, there was a little bit of a spark, like you're saying, because I was wanting to have more of a. I didn't want the conversation to end. And so we ended up, you know, talking essentially all night.

Chemistry.

Yeah. Yeah, it's true. You know, but. But I also think that there was that compatibility factor as well, because it's like, had he said the wrong thing or, like, the wrong taste of music, I would have been completely. It would have been a no for me instantly.

So if he didn't like, the same music as you would have been enough.

Oh, it would have been 100. Like, if he was like, no offense to anybody out here who loves musicals. We were literally having this conversation today Because Tori and I talk about this all the time now, since you and I talk about it. You know, it's a conversation between him and I, and I'm like, had he come in. There was something that came on this show we were watching, and it was sort of like an ode to the Sound of music, which is a musical. I've never seen it, but I know the sort of iconic landscape visual of it. And he said something to me like, oh, what if I was into musicals when we first started dating? I'm like, that would have been an instant no for me. Because for me, it's like, music is how you have sex. Like, music is how you love. My father, we've talked about this before. He's a singer. Like, his whole emotional makeup and DNA is how he emotes in his voice. So music has always been. It's consistently playing all the time, 24 7. I love music. I love musicians. I love people in. In that art. It's just, you know, part of how I feel love. So if. If we're not compatible on that, then I know we're just. We're. We're gonna have.

I agree with you. And I was telling my family this. They're like, okay, you've been single for a year now. Like, do you want to start getting one? I'm like, they need to like Afrobeats. They're like, that's your thing. I'm like, because it's a frequency. It's a frequency that, like, if you don't like the frequency of Afrobeats, we probably won't get along. Because I am that frequency. I produce afrobeats music. Like, I'm always listening to afrobeats music. Like, when I hear their voices, it touches my soul. It's like my, like, Ethiopian grandmother coming al through me. And. And so if someone hears that and just like, yeah, I feel nothing. It's like, likely my expression is just not going to be a match for you. Just like, if someone is, like, loves like super deep techno and that's their thing, I probably won't be a match for them because that's. I feel nothing with.

But what does that say? What does that say about that person? Like, what is the in. In your mind?

Like, someone who loves, like, techno, it's like, very, like, heady. It's very, like, repetitive. It's kind of like MDMA music, you know, and it's. It's just not my frequen. But there are people who love that and that's their whole lives, and they travel for it and gives them maybe a similar state that Afrobeats gives me. But it's like kind of very in the head, whereas afrobeats is very in the. In the root and in the sacral. So I actually do feel like music is a huge compatibility thing. It doesn't need to be every genre that you like, like, you could have. Like, sure, you listen to pop, he listens to Metallica, whatever. But having a shared genre, I believe is essential.

Yeah, 100%. I think that that's absolutely accurate. Especially now, you know, and Tori and I, we have I mean, our. His taste in music has always been consistent. Mine has shifted and changed over two decades, you know, like. But I think consistently it's been, you know, we. We have very similar likes. We have similar vibes. Like, there's certain music that's always playing in the house that we both agree on. Sometimes his music annoys me, Sometimes my music annoys him. But at the end of the day, there is that compatibility. Now, we are not compatible in probably most other areas of our. And I'm not saying compatible. I shouldn't say that.

Alike.

Alike. We don't have a lot in common.

Let's break this down. What's the difference between being similar to your partner, having the same interest versus being compatible? Because you and Tori are kind of opposites.

Yeah.

But you're very compatible. Okay, break it down.

Okay. So we definitely, you know, we're into some same music, but not fully. Like, we're 11 years apart. So there is an age difference. He is, you know, a different generation than I am. And so there's a lot of that.

You know, different references.

Different references. You know, different ways of being. You know, I grew up with music that you can download. He grew up listening to records, and he just grew up doing things differently and taking his time. He's very methodical. He's very tactile. He didn't grow up being on his phone or, you know, which we love. Right. It's true.

You know, can I make more of these?

I mean, he is so allergic to being on the phone. I mean, it really is because he. He wants to do things and. And when him. When we've talked about this before, because this used to be actually a big source of contention for us, like when in 2012, 10 years ago, when Instagram started to, you know, pop off, because I was on it all the time, and I was living in Portland and I didn't have any friends. And we got into this big fight one time while we were living up there. There was one of several. We were having a. This was a rough patch in the relationship. And I was constantly on the phone, just constantly on the phone, just talking to my friends and. And texting. Or I was on Facebook or Instagram and he would come into the. And I wasn't working as much because it was. It was almost like I had to restart my career when I moved up there. So I wasn't as busy. I had more time, and I was really depressed. You know, I was really bummed. And he would come into the living room and he would Be like, you know why you're depressed? Because you're on your phone all day. Like, go out, like, do something. Like, go meet some people. And, you know, it's like, what do you. What are you doing all day? You know, why are you on your phone all day? And I just. I was so heartbroken because I just felt so sad that he would feel that way about me. And I just turned and I looked him at him, and my phone was just, like, sitting on the coffee table. And I was like, my friends are in there. Like, that's where my friends are. And I think in that moment, he really understood what that meant, because it was no longer a matter of my phone. It's. It is. I have relationships that are in there. Right. And we can bring it now to the current state where a lot of us have our relationships that exist on a device, you know? But I think back then, for us, it was. It was a source of contention because we just come from different ways of being. He. He thought, go out and make new friends. Go talk to people. And I'm just like, how do you do that? You know, how do you just go to a place? Especially now, even back then, everybody's on their phones. People are going out to a coffee shop, typically with somebody that they know meeting somebody that they know. I'm gonna be the. I'm gonna do air quotes because I wouldn't think it was weird, but it's like, I'm gonna be a weirdo. Going up to some random people and being like, hi, you know, what's your zodiac sign? I mean, do you know what I'm saying? It's a little, you know, it's brave, but it's also. Can be a little bit, you know, scary if some random person just comes up to you. And so, you know, going. Going back to this idea of, like, compatibility and. And having things in common and being similar. We're very different in a lot of ways. We problem solve differently. We like different things. We use a different language. I have a way.

But how much of that difference in problem solving do you think is feminine versus masculine?

Well, I mean, I. I think a lot of it is.

A lot of it. Yeah. Yeah.

Because we're definitely in. I'm definitely in the feminine archetype. He's definitely in the masculine archetype. And even though there's been moments and. And we may or may not have talked about this before, I can remember, we have so many conversations about this. But when I was having these. During this, I'm going to Call it the dark night of the soul in our relationship, I really wanted him to do his own sort of shadow work. And I was like, you need to, you know, into the feminine more. You need to really explore, like, these parts of you that have been neglected, you know, the way that you were raised, the things that you say, you know, you. You have to really expand your spiritual mindset and your spiritual growth. And I just really wanted that for him. And that started to make me feel like this person's not for me. Like, this is not my person, this is not my soulmate. This is not the person I'm meant to be with. Because the person that I'm meant to be with, we have to be compatible. We have to be similar, we have to have chemistry, we have to have all the things. And right now, after 10 years, I don't feel like we have any of those things. Right, because he's not wanting to, you know, do the things that I want to do. He's not wanting to go into any type of self development work. And the problem with me was that I just saw this arc. I'd created this archetype because of what I was going through in my life, which is a lot of the time, you know, what happens in a relationship. We have this sort of spiritual awakening, and all of a sudden the person that we're with is no longer compatible with us. And, you know, I've. I've been through these cycles now three times in a relationship, and I, I just always, you know, advise people to act with caution because you can really hurt somebody with the things that you say and your actions and thinking that maybe this person isn't your person, when in reality it's you that are going through the, you know, and, you know, I, I made mistakes myself that, you know, I. I said a lot of things that I wish I wouldn't have. And fortunately, you know, resulted in, in Tori and I growing closer together. Only because I accepted who he was, not because he changed or he went through any huge spiritual awakening. It was because I realized that his spiritual path just looked different than mine. And I think that that part, when we're talking about these ideas of similarities and compatibility and chemistry, it's like, I think really the conversation is about how much you love somebody, how much do you want to love somebody? Like, what is the amount of love that you're willing to give to another person? Because at that point, all of these rules really go out the window because that right person could have totally different music likes, totally different style, totally Different. And all of a sudden you're just in the space where you're like, oh, my God, no. Like, none of these things matter, actually, because I really want to be with this person because this person is amazing. This person fills those parts of me that need filling, and I want to fill those same parts in the other person. Like, all of who I am is welcome in this space, and all of who this person is is welcome in my space. And I think over the years for me in our relationship, I've. I've really learned that and I've been able to integrate that. Especially in moments where we have disagreement. Disagreements, you know, especially big issues, you know, like, because what happens in relationships over time, because the chemistry is always going to be there. I think.

Because you're listening to this podcast, I'm going to make a quick assumption about you. Your friends come to you for advice whenever you're at a party. Someone corners you at the side of the stack table and starts telling you all of their childhood dramas. And you actually love diving deep into spiritual topics. And you have a really good way of communicating with people. So the best way to actually create a career doing this is through coaching. But I know a lot of people, they're like, I don't even know where to start. I don't even know what type of coach I would be. So I've created a quick, easy quiz to discover your unique coaching style. So there are three categories. The intuitive, transformational, or empathetic coach. So the intuitive one really works with your intuition. You're able to receive downloads. You just have insights about people. The transformational one has more of that fire energy. You love to keep it real and help people go through the deepest phoenix, rising from the ashes moments in their lives. And the empathetic coach really loves to listen. Hold on, space. They're very grounded, nurturing. So if you're curious which type you are, you can try my free quiz@quiz.highestselfinstitute.com Again, that's quiz.highselfinstitute.com which is my school that certifies spiritual life coaches. And you can find that link in the show notes. I'm super excited to see what type of coach you are because I'm a hire you one day. Not always. You guys have a unique relationship because I feel you guys had a lot of chemistry at the beginning.

Okay, yes.

You guys have a lot of sex. We've talked about this on the podcast. So you guys are continuing to cultivate it, whereas in a lot of long term Relationships, that chemistry is lost.

Yeah. In terms of today's wellness jargon, if you were to look at Tori and I's relationship in the beginning, you could totally say that we're totally trauma bonding. And it was completely toxic, even. I mean, we really went in hard and heavy right from the beginning. We met that night at the concert. We stayed together all night. And two weeks later, we were. We went to Mexico on a vacation, and we've been together ever since. But it was like this sort of. Really.

Well, that's why I fuck the rules, because you guys have been together for 20 years.

This is the thing, too. It's like. And I've said this to you before, you know, I had a friend who, again, I've gone through many friends. You know, it's interesting. I've had a lot of friends in. In my span of being with Tori. Friends that have come and gone, that have come and gone, that have had very strong opinions about my relationship, which I found really, really interesting. Because I think also the chemistry compatibility thing goes into friendships as well, and we intellectualize it. Yeah.

Like, we, like, let's say I was some girl who really liked you and wanted the best for you, and you just met this guy at a concert, and he's 11 years older than you, and I don't know, he kind of looks like a bad boy, and he has these women around him all the time. And now you want to go to Mexico with him. I don't know, babe. This doesn't seem like a safe idea. I don't think you should do this. And I don't think he's right for you. And it makes total sense that one would say that.

Yeah.

Because they don't know his heart. They don't know where it's going to go. They're doing it out of their wanting to protect you. Right. But I see a lot of that. It gets to our head, the way that we gaslight ourselves, the way that we do in relationships, that I feel like we.

Or we become codependent on somebody else's.

Codependent on someone else's. Who has often their own agenda.

Yeah.

As well. Like, true. Often if you're single and your friend is single, you're benefiting from them being single. So you don't want the friend to get into a relationship. And, you know, there's these funny, like, Instagram things of, like, girls telling each other that everything is a red flag. Of like, oh, my God, like, he breathed, like, red flag. Like, oh, my God, like, he's the man, red flag. Like oh my God. And say so we've turned every. Because we are have a sense of hyper vigilance because a lot of us have been hurt, betrayed in bad relationships before. So it's like part of it is like I want to protect my friend but part of this is like I don't know what to trust. I don't trust myself. So I'm just going to see everything as a red flag. But then I've created this reality that I'm alone.

Yeah.

You know, and. And that's not what we want either. So coming back to the chemistry and compatibility, what I was really hearing and what you were sharing is that what makes you compatible in a long term relationship. Those deal breaker things are gonna be very different than dating.

Yeah.

Like you were in a relationship already with Tori. You guys were already in love. You guys already, you know, chose each other. So maybe he doesn't do shadow work. You know, maybe he doesn't wanna go on, you know, a yoga retreat with you and he doesn't this. But like there's so much there already that those things don't actually matter. Cause we talk about. He's living it. Right.

Yeah.

Whereas let's say you were single or I'm single right now. So if someone's never gone down a spiritual journey, never done these things and I haven't built a life with them, it's just not someone that I would choose. Whereas when I was in my marriage, even though he wasn't into those things, I was still choosing him because I was in the marriage.

Right.

So I think a lot of times.

But it's also. You've changed. You change. Like I. And we've talked about this before too. If I was single, I wouldn't choose the same type of person.

Right.

Like I, I've said it before, you.

Have to make things work.

And I love my man. I'll tell you right now like he is my number one. I'll do anything for him. And he's like my ride or die. You know, it's like we will come back hopefully next lifetime and continue to choose each other. You know.

But you wouldn't choose him now. But I want, I wanted, I want.

To swipe on him. I'm serious.

Well, I think he would just have a shitty dating profile because it would just be Home Depot. Yeah.

Literally would be like, what are your interests? I go to Home Depot. I stay at home and play with the dogs and I do some yard work.

Well, shows how these apps are fucking with us because it's like based on that. No, you would say I'm 0% compatible with this person. I need a man who goes on vipassana and this and that. But you guys are compatible in the way that you've made a long term relationship work. And also your willingness to make the relationship work. I think that is ultimate. What compatibility is, is how willing you are to make the relationship work. Like some people might be 10% of like, you know, relationships are to always feel good. For me, I'll do a little bit of negotiation with you, but like too much of it. This is feeling heavy, I'm out. And like that's like their relationship style. Some people are like, till death do us part. Doesn't matter if there's zero love. Here we are staying together forever, which is like that. Like our parents generation was really like that. And some people, couples therapy is a thing. Some people, they will never go to therapy. It's seen as, it's seen as a failure. So it's like, how willing are you to put in the work in relationship, I think is more about the compatibility than like, do we have the same interests, hobbies, friends, Those things matter. But if you don't work on the relationship in the same way, it's not gonna work.

Yeah, no, it's like, how far are you willing to meet me? Like if I'm willing to go this far, are you willing to come this far, are you willing to go further? Right. And I think that those are the important things to ask when you're dating instead of the, oh, you know, like, what, what do you like, have you traveled? Have you done this? It's like, how far are you willing to like.

But the thing is, it's like, that's a weird first date.

Not for me.

How far are you willing to go to me? Because then it's like, then that could be seen as the love bombing. You know, let's break down the bomber.

Let me tell you something. I'm a love bomber.

I'm a love bomber too.

So this is why. And this is why you and I get along.

Yeah, we're like, you're so amazing. I'm so amazing. We're so amazing. Yeah, it's girls, we, we love to hype each other up. Whereas with a man is doing that, you got to be a little. Okay, I've been love bomb before. So we can break down.

I don't know if you want to break it down. Let's do it.

So here's the difference with a male versus female love bomb. A woman. Okay, let's say you're. You're at the bar, you had a drink, you go into the bathroom, you see another queen. Oh, my God, I love your makeup. You look amazing tonight. You look stunning. Do a turn. You're killing it. I hope your boyfriend is treating you right. That's like normal girl talk behavior. Imagine a guy doing that.

I think it would be too much.

It would be like, you're either gay or like, what do you want from me?

Yeah, what do you want from me?

It's not how men are. Yeah, it's not how they are in their masculine right.

But don't you think that's kind of shitty? It's like.

Well, it's just men tend to be a little bit more reserved. I would say they might really appreciate your beauty, but they're not. Like, yes, Queen, you slaying tonight. Love those lashes on you. Is this flair? You know? Like, that's not how they are, but that's not how men love bomb. How men love bomb is. I feel they have this, like, sense of, like, insecurity, of like, I'm not enough as I am, so I need to overcompensate with the things that I think a woman would like. So I'm going to go above and beyond in the planning of the date and the flowers and how I treat you and how I open the door and this and that. And, like, these are all beautiful, like, things that women do genuinely want. Like, I don't think that's what the love bombing is. I think the real love bombing is the future projections of, like, on the first date, the life we're gonna create together. And this is where. This is what our relationship is going to be like. And calling you their wife already and, like, you know, like, talking about the rest of your lives here, which, like.

This is what we can do.

This is what we. And we're gonna. We're gonna. It's not a Sunday. They're talking about your freaking marriage and life. Yeah.

Like, oh, yeah, okay.

We've had these experiences, you know, and it's like, I think men think that's what women want. Women want safety, security in the future. So. But then they're like, playing this game of, like, let me talk all about the future to get her.

It's a little manipulating.

It's actually pretty narcissistic, you know, which shows up in this people pleaser way, which we've talked about on our podcast. And people pleasing narcissistic are really coming from the same thing of, like, Trying to control an outcome. So the man's like, let me say that she's my wife, and I'm gonna have babies with her, and we're gonna do this and that, give her this and give her that to get her. And then once you have her, what happens? The chase is gone.

Yeah.

And then that's why so many women are like, I don't get it. He was coming after me. He approached me, and now all of a sudden, six months into relationship, two years into the relationship even, he's not trying anymore.

Yeah.

So. So that was not coming from a genuine place. It was coming from this, like, let me do all the loving acts, which is very different. And I think that's the important. I see a lot of. On social media, the woman, like, relationship advice is like, be with a man who does this and does that for you and pays for this and. And it's. It's so much focus on the acts of love rather than who the person is. You know, it's like you might be at the most beautiful dinner with the flowers and this. Do you love the conversation? Like, can you actually hang out with this person? You know, would you be their friend? And I think so many of us were so caught up. And sometimes I see these tiktoks, too, and they're funny, but it's like, you know, but it's. It's seeing men as a commodity. Right. And we're like, oh, my God, if he's not paying for this and if he's not getting me that and he's not. Whatever, he's not the guy. And it's like, at the end of the day, it's like, that person should feel like your best friend, you know? And you're like, you know, I mean.

Yeah, I agree, but.

But it depends what kind of relationship. But it's like, you might be in the most gorgeous Maldives vacation and feel lonely as.

Yeah.

If you don't genuinely love who that person is.

Yeah, yeah. And it doesn't matter, you know, all the. The, you know, things in the world.

All of the accoutrements, they're helpful, they're great. And in a perfect world, it would be both. And, you know, but I find that sometimes the men who show up in this really, like, ostentatious way, they are compensating for something.

And what do you think that compensating is?

Feeling like they are not enough as they are.

Would you rather be with somebody who's trying to sort of make up for their shortcomings or somebody who's overconfident and, like, doesn't do anything because they feel like they're.

I mean, neither. Neither. Because that's both narcissistic.

Okay.

You know.

Yeah.

Like, you would want to be with someone that feels like an equal, you know, even if you have. Like. I do think the masculine needs to be in a provider role. Like, that's how the masculine always has been. And they like to, you know, and there it's missing in our society. And I think the feminine we want to receive, and it does create a natural cohesion. So if a guy's like, I'm not willing to do that, well, then he also doesn't really love and care for you. You know, if he's like, oh, you should be lucky to be in my aura, you know? Subscribe to my podcast.

Yeah, subscribe. Bring a review.

Yeah, but it's like, where. Where can we have the happy medium? And I think it comes to us of, like, what do we. What are we really willing to settle with? Because I see a lot of women who, you know, it's. It's crazy out there in the online dating space. Like, there's a lot of ghosting. There's a lot of.

To me, it's like the disrespect.

It's disrespect.

Like, like, it's so. I mean, I understand it's really difficult, but I am just way too. You know, my attachment style is anxious. Right. I have anxious attachment style. So I just want to be able to communicate how I feel. I want. I don't like to. You feel like somebody doesn't know what I'm thinking or, you know, if. If something doesn't work out, I like to communicate because I. I would hate for the other person to not know. But. But I think that this, especially when you're having a great conversation with somebody and then all of a sudden it's like, oh, I just stopped responding to you. Like, what is that?

An inability to speak truth because they are afraid to say what they really think, and it actually might hurt. And I think that sometimes you might actually be better off ghosted than that person saying it.

Really?

Yeah. Like, okay, first of all, there's the. Before you've met in online dating.

Right.

Which is where the majority of ghosting happens. I don't really think it happens that much after you've met, before you've met. You're just judging each other based on five pictures, a couple shitty question answer things. You don't really get a vibe you're Playing freaking detective, trying to, like, figure out, like, oh, okay, they said air condition unit in there. Your friends are analyzing. You're sitting around. You're just trying to figure it out, you know? And there have been many times like, that I have been like, oh, yeah, I don't like this thing. And I. And I. I didn't notice it at first. Then I notice it, and I don't respond. You know, so there's. Here's one flip of it. It's. Do you actually owe anyone? Like, hey, I actually noticed in your third picture, you don't really look like the rest of them. So, like, you don't owe that person that response. And that would hurt to receive as well. So I think it's like, before you've met, it's this kind of like, you don't really. It's in the air. It's vata. You know, once you've met, I think it's completely rude to ghost. But I think before that, it's like, here's one thing I've learned. All is fair in love and war, and no one really owes you anything. What I've.

I've realized I am just appalled. Honestly, I have to say, I'm really appalled.

Okay, let's.

Let's debate this because I. I hear what you're saying, and I. And I. You and I also have a age difference. You know, we. We kind of, you know, come from different generations.

Babe, get on a dating app and then explain to each person why you stopped responding.

I would guarantee you, but it's not necessarily that. Like, I. I understand. Look, there have been two instances in my adult life where there was two separate occasions. I had a friend. Friends that we were really close at one point, and then things just kind of fizzled out, and I just stopped responding.

But you had a relationship. You had a friendship, right? Right. Someone on an app that you're like, right.

Did you do this weekend? I guess for me, it's just cold because it's like. I guess it's almost like. Like the sticks and stones thing, right?

Because it hurts to receive. Because that's.

That's the point. It's like the person who's not getting a response is left thinking, what did I do? What did I say? What didn't I do? Should I have done this? Should I have done that? Why is everybody doing this to me? Because it. You think it's just. You're one person.

No, it's one third of people on dating apps. Right.

And. And I. And I think if this is a common thing among your generation where it's like people just don't respond and it's like, boom, like, ghost this person. I feel like I have a fundamental issue with that because of. That hurt. Because it's like, I'm just such a compassionate person. It's like, I just feel bad. And I know that you do too. You know, we've had these conversations before, but I feel like this is where. And I'm not gonna try and go down this rabbit hole, but I feel like this is a fundamental issue across the. How this younger generation is growing up with. With social media. People having, you know, they want to fight wars with their thumbs, they want to, you know, have opinions, they want to lash out at people. They want to come. Come for you in your DMs. They want to, you know, all of these things. All of a sudden we're putting ourselves on these platforms where we're putting ourselves in a position to get darts thrown at us all day long, you know, arrows, whatever. You know, we're. We're ridiculed. Back in the day, it's like the only people who would put themselves in a position to be, you know, eviscerated were actors, artists, musicians, people that had public platforms. Now we all have public platforms. So now we all have to be put in this position to be ridiculed, to be judged, to be torn down, so on and so forth. And I just don't think that the human psyche is built for that.

No. And apps are fucking with our self worth. You know, they are making communication inhumane. Like, I'm. I'm on your side. Here's. I've felt the hurt from it, and this is how I've had to rationalize it.

Yeah. It's pissed me off when people have ghosted you. I know I want to come for them. Like, who is this person?

But here's. But I've had to tell myself, myself, they don't owe me anything. They don't owe me a response, you know, and that's allowed me freedom of. Like, we're ultimately here in relationship to enjoy spending time together. It's not like I applied for this job and I deserve to know why I didn't get it. It's your heart, you know?

Yeah.

So I remember, like one of the first times I was on the app, it was like last year at your house, and I was like talking to someone and then he just. Just like we were like literally going back and forth and then he unmatched me and I was like, oh, I was devastated for days. I really was.

I remember.

And I was just like, how did he. We were just talk, like, what? It was so weird to me. And it is weird, and it is inhumane, and it's not how people are supposed to act. But if I let that devastate me for days, every time I had any interaction with someone online that I didn't get the closure from, I would go freaking insane. Yeah, but you have to grow.

You do, and you do, because you have tools and you're an awake and conscious human being navigating this planet, but the majority of people out there aren't.

But then, okay, maybe that guy said, you know what? I looked through your pictures, and you're weird, and I don't like this about you. And that. That probably would have hurt me more, actually, if he shared the reason why he.

So it's almost like it's not you, it's me type of thing.

Well, ultimately, everything is. You know, it's like, for whatever reason, I was not his type. I don't know if it was a picture, what I said, what I posted. He Googled me. I have no freaking idea. But he doesn't owe me anything. And I've had to learn that. And then that lets you be so much less attached in this. Whereas if you. When I first started this online dating thing, I was getting attached to, like, I matched with this person. Like, we're gonna date, of course. And I've had to learn, like, 99% of the people you chat with on there, you probably won't even meet with, you know?

Yeah.

Because what happens in most of these conversations, it gets to the stalemate point. What did you do this weekend? Oh, I hung out with my friends, watched movie. Oh, what did you do? I did this. And then. Then there's. There's no question from there, because it's also very unnatural to have a conversation that at the end of everything I say, I ask you a question. So most people don't know how to talk for online dating. The only successful ones that I've had are the ones that, like, we didn't really go back and forth that much within the first five messages. It's, hey, do you want to meet me and do whatever thing? You know? And then it's like you could just see, do you have chemistry in person or not? And sometimes you meet with them one time and that's it. And sometimes you might end up dating.

Have you had chemistry with somebody? Not in person.

Not in person.

Yeah, like on your phone, like, via.

Have I had chemistry with them through the texting?

Yeah.

Yes.

Okay.

When I met my ex, when we were talking before meeting because he was away that week, and we kept talking and talking. Like, I was screenshotting those texts because we were like, we went deep. It was just like, instant wanting to talk. And some people. There's not that. And some people aren't good textures. But I would say, like, I was so curious to meet him because we were talking so much. We also FaceTimed before meeting as well.

Okay.

But even before the FaceTime, and. But again, this was. This was like 10 years ago. But so, yeah, with now in online dating, I don't really go back and forth that much. I prefer to just meet in person. And, you know, and people have surprised me as well, that they are totally different than what I would have imagined. Some people, you might think they're this amazing person. You meet them in real life, they're not. And some people, you're like, I don't even really feel like meeting them. And you meet them and they're amazing. So. So you never really know. And that's why I think I'm not against the apps. Like, I think the apps, like, especially if you work from home, it's really hard to meet people.

Yeah. No, I think in the modern day, like, there's no other way to meet people.

Literally.

We met online.

Yeah. We met through our podcast. Like, how. Where am I gonna bump into a straight man? I have to, like, interview him. You know, it's like, I don't, you know, so it's like the apps give you. It's like this person right in front of you. But here's what I feel happens with them too, is like. Like, you think I'm hot. I think you're hot. Now we're face to face. Like, and now what? And then it's like this forced, like, do we have chemistry or not? And it's like, yeah. And. And then that takes away the natural chemistry because it's not this, like, natural buildup that would have happened if we were, like, all at a party and I kind of was, like, talking too little and going away and coming back. So I do think apps, you can know the chemistry before, but ultimately you have to meet. Okay, here's a question for you. Do you think that if you don't have chemistry with someone on the first date, you should try another? Or do you think you're just never going to.

With that same person?

Yes.

No, I don't think so. I think that there are certain Ways that you could. For me personally, have you heard of the bird test? No, you've never heard of the birth test? Okay, the birth test. You can probably Google it. You should probably put a little. She'll put a little test link. Yeah, yeah, A little link in the. Or TikTok link in the description. So the birth test is this idea. It comes.

Come.

Comes from the Gottman Institute. Is it Gottfried or Gottman? You'll have to fact check me on this. But basically it's about relationships and seeing if you are compatible and if you basically have similar values. Right. So the birth test is this. You could do with male, female, whatever, you know, you could do with friends, you could do it with somebody you're interested in. The whole idea is basically you go somewhere, you know, out to, you know, coffee or somewhere during the day, and when the person's talking, you're sitting by a window. Preferably when, you know, you're chatting with the person and you see a bird outside. And then you go. I'll give you an example. I was with this person who wanted to form a partnership with me.

Not.

Not that long ago, actually, I told you about this meeting. But my big thing with working with people, like, because I'm a solopreneur, you know, I like really being involved in projects that I do, and I always like to know the type of people that I'm dealing with, you know. So we're at this place here in West Hollywood and we are sitting at this little coffee shop and I'm sitting across from him and we're just chit chatting and he's, you know, asking me about what my life, whatever. And I'm just like, yeah, you know, like, these are the things I'm really passionate about right now. These are the things I'm working on, you know, I'm writing my next book. Like, this is the. All the things that are really important to me. And. And then I happened to look and I saw and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna do the bird test. There was a hummingbird right outside, like on the. Like close to the tree. I could see it. And I'm like, oh my God, look at this. I'm like, look at this hummingbird. It was so cute. Little chubby one that definitely was not hurting on groceries. So cute. And then he just kind of turns around, is like, oh, that's cool. And then looks back at me. Girl, if I was there with you, you would have turned around. You'd be like, what does the hummingbird mean? We would have been looking it up together. We would have been like, what is this? Oh, my God, where did it go? We would be. You know what I'm saying? It's like the people that have the same values as me. Do you understand what I'm saying?

So, so is it saying that the person should respond to birds in the same way that you do or someone that doesn't care about birds?

It's not necessarily the bird. It's how are you reacting to my genuine care and interest when I'm genuinely interested in something that's happening that I truly care about, how are you reacting to that? Are you just passively looking or are you genuinely interested in what I'm interested in? That's the difference, you know? So for me, going back to the first date, it's like, if I can see that you're genuinely interested in me and I'm genuinely interested in you, you don't need to go on a second date if that person disregarded your genuine interest. Do you understand? It's like, why would you waste your time to go out with somebody if you're like, this person and I were not a match?

Yep. You know, and like, that you can't, like, feed off of each other's energy too. Yeah, that. Like, I've gone on dates before that someone asks me a lot, but then I, like, tell them and they're like, wow, that's so interesting. And it kind of ends there. Like, you don't. You don't get.

For you. Yeah, for you, it could be like the pattern app or it could be.

Yeah. Like, if someone has no interest in spirituality at all, it's just like, this is who I am. It's what I do. It's what I live and breathe. Like, we're just not gonna go very far, you know? And I've. I've actually had to learn, like, oh, this actually is a necessity, compatibility thing for me now. Whereas the version of me ten years ago was like, oh, I don't even really like spiritual guys. Because I was thinking spiritual guy, as in the Kumbaya coach who spiritualizes lightning in a bottle and, you know, smells like essential oils at all times and is polyamorous with 60 chicks because he is the reincarnation of Jesus himself. He has a sacred kundalini that will activate all of your chakras in one. So please join him on his all inclusive ayahuasca retreat. Like, that's how I was imagining the.

Small rate of a hundred thousand dollars.

Exactly. And I'll biohack with you the whole time. And then we'll cold pl. Put it on my podcast and then we'll do.

And then we'll do red light therapy all night and then watch the Red Pill YouTube channel.

Like, that's how I was like, that's what spiritual guys are like, because that's the kind I was meeting at the freaking ecstatic dances, you know? So I was like, I don't even need a spiritual guy. I don't even like them. They're super feminine for me. Yeah. That archetype of men for sure, is for sure spiritual bypasser, out of touch. But now I'm finding, like, there are men who find spirituality through life.

Yeah.

Through heartbreak, through failed marriages and businesses and life bringing them to their knees and they come to these realizations in actually, like, the most authentic way.

Yeah.

Like, I didn't just hear it at a workshop and I'm regurgitating it to you because I think it's going to get me chicks and make me seem cool. It's like I'm living and breathing it. So I'm like, I need to be with someone who has that level of depth, like, who's accessed, like, their rock bottom and their shadows. Especially now, me having gone through that, it's almost like I just can't be with someone who's been in the kiddie pool. And it's like, I think some people could value maybe the innocence that someone like that can have. And I'm just like, my pathway has been like, full liberation or bust. So it's like, and. And if I don't have that depth, if I'm not with someone that I feel like, like mentally, emotionally, spiritually, like, charged with that. Like, there's, there's, there's even like, maybe we like how you and I debate. Like, I love that I don't want to be with someone who's just like, I don't really know what you do, but you're so amazing at it. Like, that's just gon a repetition of like, my parents. Right. So. But again, because now I'm choosing someone and I'm not in the relationship, I have that privilege of being able to do that. Whereas I also know what it's like to be in a relationship where that person doesn't understand what you do and doesn't. You don't speak the same language. And then you just have to try to make it work. Unless it's a deal breaker enough for you to walk away from.

Yeah.

Yeah. So, okay, so chemistry versus compatibility. So what do you Think now, like, if you were to go back and to start starting dating, what are the things that you would be like, these are the things that, like, we need to be compatible. Like, what would your deal breakers be?

Oh, deal breakers back then or now?

Because they're. Now what are your deal breakers?

I'm definitely not into polyamory.

Agreed on that one.

So that, to me, is a big deal breaker. It seems like a lot of men in this wellness space are really into this whole idea of polyamory, which I think is. Is a big ruse. I don't think it's real. And I think that it's like, show me. Show me that it works. Truly. Like, this is a gauntlet. I'm challenging anybody who listens to this. Like, show me. Show me that it works. Because up until this point, I've not seen it work. I've not seen it function where people aren't getting hurt. Some people. And. And here's the gaslighting addendum to that.

That's how you grow.

Yeah. They're like, this is. This is part of the grow. And it's like, okay, True love is not wanting to hurt the person that you're with. Right.

And by the way, there's the same amount of cheating in polyamorous relationships than there are in monogamous relationships. So the same amount of people lying about having sex with other people, even though they're actually allowed to, but they have to have a conversation about it, they're still choosing not to. So it's showing that whatever human propensity it is to be turned on by illegal sex, you know, like sex that you're not supposed to be having, even when you can have sex with whoever you want, it's still there.

Yeah, Well, I mean, that's like the number one killer of relationships is cheating. But do you know why people cheat? The number one reason why people cheat is to feel alive. So that doesn't matter whether you know what I'm saying. It's like, it's going to happen whether you're open about it or not. It makes it more exciting when it's not allowed. So even if you're in an open relationship, you're still lying.

So, okay, is it a deal breaker for you if they have kids? Let's talk about this.

Oh, oh. Like basic deal break. Yeah. Like, I wouldn't date anybody that has. I wouldn't date somebody with children because to me, that says I'm not going to come first and I don't ever want to be.

What if you found your perfect guy. It was.

It wouldn't matter.

You would.

So I would have not dated Tori. I've told. I told him this. It was one of the first things I asked. I was like, do you have children? And he's like, no. And I'm like, are you sure? I come from a Hispanic family. Okay. There's a lot of kids popping up everywhere, you know? And he said no. And I was like, okay. I'm like, that's a no for me. And again.

And did you not want kids at this time or you wanted.

I didn't want kids at the time, and then I did, and now I'm back to not wanting them.

Right.

For now. I don't know. I might change my mind.

But, yeah, for me, having kids is also a deal breaker because I don't want to have kids at this point of my life. And also, it's just not conducive to the lifestyle that I want to live as someone who travels a lot, and when you have a kid, you have to be in one place. I've also had friends who, you know, have met these amazing men who have kids, and at first they were like, oh, is this a deal breaker or not? It wasn't. And they have these beautiful relationships that they believe are so beautiful because he's a father.

Yeah.

And fatherhood taught him how to, like, really be there and really be devoted and turn him into the husband that they get to benefit from today.

Yeah. Amazing.

However, the kids are there every weekend, and they have the. The other. The being a stepmom. Those are big things in the relationship. Yeah.

Look, I. I think that the people that can do that step. Step parents, like, I think that they have a huge, huge capacity for love, and I admire that. I think that that's really a loving thing. I just. I couldn't do that. It's like, I wouldn't want to step parent a child that is. I mean, I barely would want to parent a child that's mine at the moment. You know, why would I want to parent a child that's not mine? I just wouldn't, you know? And. And I know that about myself, so. So we agree on that.

Okay. It's a deal breaker for you if they don't have the same vision in life. Life. If they're like, I see myself retiring in Tokyo one day, like, I don't like Tokyo. Would you.

Not necessarily a deal breaker. I mean, Tori and I have different visions of what our future looks like, but ultimately, the one thing that I really do love about Tori is that his happiness is my happiness. And I think that that's really. You know, some people might be like, that's really selfish. And maybe, yes, I am, you know, in a way, But I think he's selfish in his ways as well. I think that both of us. You know, the one thing that he taught me that's really interesting is he taught me how to be selfish really early on in. In the relationship. Because in the beginning, I was very. It was all about the love bombing, right? It was all about the, like, codependent. Codependent girl. Like, this is just how we live. And. And he really modeled this way of being where it was like, I'm here. I'm not going anywhere, but you're allowed to basically have your own life. And in the beginning, that made me feel like, oh, what a true man. Right? But it's like, in the beginning, for me that, especially in my early 20s, it felt in the beginning it was freeing because I was like, going out, I did whatever I wanted, and it was fun. But after a couple of years, I was like, this feels like you don't want. Want me. You know, like, it feels like I'm not wanted. Like, why don't you want to build a life with me? And it wasn't that he didn't want to build a life with me. His logic was like, you're younger than I am. He's like, I've done all the things. You should go do all the things, and you should be able to build your own identity and your own life. And I so appreciate that. I didn't at the time, but I so appreciate that now because we have two completely separate careers. Lives. And the only reason why I'm able to succeed at anything is because he's modeled that for me. And again, it's like the selfishness was. It could be a turn off for some people. Some people might be like, I need a man who's there. I need a man who's giving me attention 24 7. That's giving me, you know, all of the things like, I'm not doing this unless. Unless this, this, and this is happening. He's taking me to dates. He needs to do this. Blah, blah, blah. That man has been running his own business since 1995. Like, some of y' all people haven't even been born yet. I admire that. Like, I am so inspired by his tenacity and his resilience and his way of just being in his own life.

So what I'm hearing and what I See, is the level of freedom versus spending time together that you want. Yeah. Compatible in that. That you guys both value having your own careers.

Yes.

Having your own freedom and the same. Yes. And because that's your shared value together. And maybe at the beginning, it wasn't yours. You were like, you. All I've seen in relationships is, like, you meet and you're together 24 7, until it fizzles out, you know? And he's like, no, like, let's do this in. In this, like, more spacious way. Which is probably. Would let it be more long term so you didn't get lost in the sauce. Which often happens when there's so much chemistry at the beginning. You drop all your friends. You drop everything you're doing. It's just this vortex that you're in. And then you're like, oh, like, wait, I don't have friends anymore. I don't have a life anymore. And then it's like, you know, and. And it's something you have to check yourself with because, like, when the love is good, it's like you just want to be in it all the time. And it's like, okay, keep breathing. Like, keep seeing your girls. Like, keep living your life. Have your hobbies, because you're gonna need those things one day, and those are actually gonna be the things that actually keep your relationship going. Yeah.

But it's also really beautiful to get lost in that in the beginning, you know, for sure.

Yeah. And don't stop it either. But have a healthy balance with it. Whereas I have a friend who. She's like another very close sister of mine. She was looking for someone to be with her 24 7. She wanted that relationship. She wanted. We do everything together. We go to each other's doctor's appointments. And she wanted a man who was very nurturing. She wanted a man who would cook for her, who would call the doctor for her and like. Like, yeah. Like, be like a parent figure, almost, like.

Yeah.

And. And she wanted that, and she found someone who loves to be that, and he loves to nurture. And they spend all their time together, and they're literally like each other's, like, best slash. Like, often, like, only friends. Like, they'll. They'll travel for rents, just only with each other. And they're so compatible because they both. Both want that. They put in a lot of work to make their relationship work, but they're so compatible. Whereas, you know, so it's funny because sometimes I ask her for relationship advice on the same thing that I ask you for. You Guys give me totally different things.

Because that to me like would never work.

Would never. And it doesn't work for me either. And it's like. And my previous relationship was very freedom oriented to the point that we were not spending time with each other at all because it was very, I have my life, you live yours. You love your dharma, I love mine. That it was just like, so what's actually bringing us together? So I'm like, I want a relationship where there's like, for example, you and Tori do do a lot together, you guys.

Yeah, we do.

We do a car that's pretty intimate. But you also have your own lives. And it's like you have to find someone who wants the same blend as you do. So like maybe someone traveling a lot is a deal breaker for someone of like, I don't want someone who's not home at 7pm so they would do really well with like someone who's like a doctor, a corporate guy. Yeah. Who's like, I'm home every night at seven, we have dinner and this is our routine. Whereas for me, I travel. I don't mind someone that travels too. But like I need someone who can travel with me. If you have a 9 to 5, we will never work.

Yeah.

You know, so it's like you have to find those unique things for you. And I think like early on, like have that conversation of like, here's what a relationship would look like for me, here's what it would look like for you. I think the scary thing is it's like maybe that person can't meet it.

Yeah.

And you might really love them, but you might not be compatible. And it's hard to let something go when it's still like hot. And I have found that it's actually hard. Like I haven't been really in any short term relationships, but I've heard that they're harder to get over than long term ones because you're mourning the loss of what could have been. Whereas in a long term one, it's like my seven plus year one, I kind of know all the avenues we could have taken. It's like we ran our course, you know. Whereas if you've been together for like one year, it's like it was still so new and then you don't know. So it's harder to get over. But society tells you, oh, you guys just dated for a year. Like it's not that big of a deal.

Do you have one that got away?

I don't. I've only had two real boyfriends. And they were both.

And both of them were five years away.

Yeah. And they were long. Long term. And it was, like, clear when they were done. So I don't have one that got away.

I don't never have the one that got away. Clearly.

Have you had one that got away?

I mean, I. I haven't. I mean, like, I'm the same. I had, like, two. Really? Two boyfriends before Tori.

Like, I've had people who. I've wondered what a relationship. Relationship with them would be like, but it's never been a relationship or even meeting. I've had fantasies over celebrities, a.k.a.

But I'm like, damn, me and that.

Person would be amazing together. But we've never met every girl. That's my imagination ships. Those are hard to get over. Those are hard because you don't have anything to give you the ick.

Yeah, that's true. Because everything's so perfect.

My only person I've never gotten over is my imagination relationship. Because we've never. Because there's nothing that he's done wrong, you know, because he's just in my head, it's so perfect. They say the best way to get over a guy is to get to know him. And that a crush is just a lack of evidence. Just no, get to know him. It'll be gone, honey.

Okay, True. It's true.

Here's. Okay, but here's the thing that I think. Think with our chemistry.

Because I can literally tell you all the ways that Tori's, like, not the right partner for me for sure.

Because you know him, right? But when you don't, you have the fantasy, you know, and it's like, girls, we fall in love with our fantasies, you know, it's like, oh, we would have a great life. We would move to Hawaii and buy land and have chickens and, you know, collaborate on musical projects. This could be us. So it's like, you know, that's way harder to get over than someone who's a. But that guy. It's like, no one's perfect. And I think that's what is also messing with our chemistry is like, we are now exposed to the entire world.

Yeah.

So it's like, that person is never gonna be enough because there's someone else. Some influencer you follow, some guy that you follow that gives relationship advice. Whoever the person is that you're always gonna compare them to and. Cause you don't know them. You're like, oh, well, I don't know. Jason Momoa wouldn't have treated me like that. You don't know, Jason Momoa, you know.

No, he wouldn't have treated you like that.

But he wouldn't have.

He wouldn't have. He wouldn't have. If you want to make it work.

We can make it work. But it's like, so we're comparing and then men do the same thing that, like, you're always going to compare to the Instagram model who's not real, who's two dimensional. Other end of it is like, then we're finding these constant icks and these constant red flags, which I think could be a whole other thing. That it's like, then the moment, it's not the fantasy anymore. We're like, there's no more chemistry. I'm over it. So it's like, it's like you can.

Convince yourself to not want to be.

With the person and it's a balance of love. Don't convince yourself to overlook the red flags just because you want to be in love. And don't also convince yourself to only look at the red flags because you're so afraid of being hurt.

Right.

Where is the happy medium?

That's part two.

Part two. Do you guys want that? Maybe. What do we want to talk about for part two? Like, being hurt. Like, fear of opening your heart, maybe?

I think that fear of opening your heart and, yeah, seeing red flags that aren't there.

What is a red flag?

What is a red flag?

And you'll get it in the next episode coming out next month here on the Highest Self podcast. So we are so grateful to have you here. Thank you, Rosie, for being on. We will put her. She's just laughing how I segued into this. This exit. We just keep it real flowing in here. We're literally gonna go into the next conversation right now. So if you love this conversation, you want more of them, please leave a review. Tell me, like, what do you want us to break it down on? She's meditating again. We're still on the pod fast, it's still rolling, but drop it low, girl. So tell us what you want us to talk about. Like, what are the things you're just like, let's deliberate over this. We're here to be your besties and keep it real with you and share this with your friends. It's a really good conversation starter. Like, I love. Like, like, I re. Listen to all of these. I'm gonna re. Listen to this in the perfect time where I need to hear all of these messages. So, future self, you got this. Remember the wisdom in your chair here today. And so relisten to this Take notes Share it if you love this episode, please leave a review and as a free gift I will send you over my womb meditation, which is a free meditation that you can do to connect you to your womb center so you can receive her answers. Because our wombs are our houses of intuition for the feminine. So leave a review on the iTunes store, take a screenshot and email it over to me@saharaamsahararose.com you can find that email and all the links mentioned today in the show. Notes. Thank you Rosie for being on.

Thank you for having me as usual. Thanks for interrupting my meditation again.

And now we're going to drop into a meditation.

Oh, we're going to drop it low and then drop it into a meditation.

And then into another existential question that we don't have the answer to. So stay tuned. Love you guys. Trust your intuition, trust your inner wisdom, trust your inner guidance. Close your eyes and listen. So trust your intuition, trust your inner wisdom, Trust you in the guidance.