545: The Antidote For Loneliness + How To Find Your Soul Tribe with Sah D'Simone

If you're listening to this, it's a call to action. Literally. You gotta prioritize connection. You have to seek out friendship. You have to show up for them and allow the friend to unburden what's going on for you. But then see, is it trauma bonding? Is it all that we do is just shit talk and being a victim story? And there's always a villain. Are we always villainizing something and someone? Because if that's what you're doing, then the conversation, the relationship isn't liberatory, isn't freedom based. It's. Which is different.

Welcome back to the High Self podcast. My name is Sahara Rose, and on this podcast I love to take spiritual concepts and make them really modern, grounded, fun, and relatable so they can actually serve your needs. And every person on this podcast has played a significant role in my life. And this guest in particular today has, like, pop roles in my life. One of my besties for over seven years, someone that you likely know and follow as well, Sada Simone. He is a powerhouse, but also one of the deepest people I have ever met who has gone through a really transformational journey since his mother passed away in December of 2022, into getting even deeper into, like, why are we here and why is there such suffering? And the thing that he came down to is loneliness. And I remember he was working on this book even before his. His mother. He was like, in our friend Mia Magic's backyard, in this little, like, outhouse. He was just, like, always writing this book. We're like, come out. Come play. And he's like, no, I need to write this book. And I always knew about the loneliness epidemic. It was something that people always talked about. I knew loneliness kills more people than cigarettes statistically. But it wasn't until my divorce in December 2022, as we both went through a really big transition at the same time, that I actually really understood what loneliness is. And the void it plays in your life. And the difference that often, like, when you're in a relationship, you kind of know there's someone there. Like, there's someone you can talk to. There's someone that, like, knows your whereabouts. There's someone that you can check in with. There's a point of contact. And then when I was single, I was like, wow, like, no one even knows where I am. I'm like, I could be, like, dead for days. And, like, no one would find out. And it was like this really big awakening that I had. And I would notice these bouts of loneliness that would come up you know, just sleeping by myself for the first time since I was 24 years old. And, you know, just. I was always a very independent person. But, like, when you're really single and on your own like that, and I went very deep into it. I moved to the mountains by myself. I was traveling by myself. I just went into my fear of being alone. When I went to the core of that aloneness, I realized that what I was afraid of was peace. You know, I was afraid of the peace that actually happens when you're alone. All one. But I pushed it away by going on Instagram or going on a dating app or this or that or, like, something, place, significance, like, to make sure I existed, right? Because if I'm not talking to someone else, I must not exist. And when I really, like, went to the core of, like, why am I so afraid of being alone? It was like this deep existential. Like, because if I'm alone, then I'm, like, unworthy of living. And I was like, wow. Like, that was there, like, underneath it all. And it wasn't until sitting with my aloneness and my solitude that I realized, like, of course I'm worthy of living, even if I'm alone. But it made me understand why. Like, it made me understand why there's high suicide rates. It made me understand why there's high depression. It made me understand why people are addicted to substances and porn and social media and validation and attention of any sort. Because the pathway to get to that piece of being alone is a really long and arduous one. So this is going to be a deep conversation, but we're also ourselves. So we like light, deep. We're little dolphins in here. And he has not only really profoundly done this work in his own life, but he has been working in hospitals with the dying and seeing people, many people, at the end of their lives and their biggest regrets and what they've left with. So I'm really excited to see where this conversation guides us. And before we drop into this episode, be sure to hit subscribe wherever you're listening to this podcast. That is the best way to stay up to date on the latest episodes. We've got this in video format, so if you're just hearing my voice, be sure to also watch our fabulous outfits on video as well on Spotify, YouTube or the Apple Store. This is the best way to stay in the flow with future conversations and also allows the podcast to reach more people. So hit subscribe so I can keep vibing with you on all future episodes. Now, let's get into this one. So without further ado, author, podcast host, spiritual teacher, revolutionary extraordinaire, Sada Simone.

Wow. Thank you so much. And what a beautiful intro too, to your own experience of loneliness and your own experience of facing that aspect in yourself. There's two sides to it that I want to say one thing. There is a need to confront our loneliness and self analyze to a degree to know what is it that we're feeling like we're lacking in our lives. So there's that perspective. Now the book addresses the perspective that a lot of people will not even face their feelings of loneliness. And when it does strike, what do you do? Oftentimes when people, as you shared, masturbate, drugs, alcohol, social media, overeating, like you name it, we plug in your poison there. People will do whatever it takes to distract themselves from experiencing their loneliness and actually acting on it. So I think your experience is wonderful and profound and unique to your life. And what I see most I'm addressing in the book is kind of the majority of people where they're at, they don't even know what it means to be in silence. A lot of people have no clue what it means to actually, like, have deep, meaningful connections, you know?

Yeah.

So the book really addresses that. Over 60% of young adults in America feel seriously lonely. The book talks about the fact that two out of every five people report that their relationships are meaningless. Two in five. So when we are looking at these statistics and we're walking to a dinner party or a restaurant or whatever it may be, it's really alarming to realize how many people are going through life without a vital need. Right. You look at suicide rates in the last few years has gone up to. Has gone up 30%. That's insane to think about it. And we are forgetting that, like biologically speaking, purely empirically speaking, scientific evidence, loneliness, when it strikes in the body, it's a cue like hunger. We are not addressing our thirst for friendship in the same way that we are for water. We're not addressing this vital biological need.

So what does it feel like to be. To feel loneliness? How would you describe that?

I mean, strikes in the body just like any other sensation. Right. But what it calls for, I think.

A lot of people don't know they feel lonely.

Well, yes, and I also think a lot of people are so vastly aware of what it's like to just distract themselves from feeling, period. So in the book, we'll bring people back into their bodies to be able to even reactivate their felt sense. What Is it like to feel my feelings? What is it like to experience myself from the inside out and with the. How indoctrinated and socialized we are to distract ourselves and to produce and to base our worth on how much we have to show for we don't know, know that we have worth by just existing, by just being. So it all leads to this like perpetual cycle of like, I don't want to, I shouldn't reach out to these friends because I'm not worthy of their connection. You know, unless I have this car, this money, this whatever rating, this amount of reviews, whatever it may be, I shouldn't. I'm not worthy of connection. I'm not worthy of, of, of making a point of contact. But the biggest call to action is when you feel deeply lonely and recognize what it's like, start to realize that loneliness visits us as like a cue. Same way for food, for water, for sleep, any of our basic needs for sunlight. You know, it's realizing that it visits you regularly. It's part of our foundational garden for the longevity of our peace, the longevity of our happiness. And once you realize that it comes, what do you do? What is the call to action? In your case, you had a lot of unraveling to do because perhaps there was some degree of codependency with your. And I don't want to speak for you, although I know a little bit more about the story than most of you do. But there might be some weaved in that. And if there is codependency, if there is a lack of boundaries and a lack of meaningful deep weaved intimacy in there, then you can get lost in the soup and you can kind of miss the plot, what relationships are really there for. So in that case for you, spending time alone was very vital. So you get to rediscover yourself and then you then get to come out of the other side and actually be deeply intimate with people in a whole new way that perhaps in the past you weren't because you were protecting yourself, because all you knew was to like protect your heart because the relationship kind of called for that. It was kind of about that per se. So what I really the ask for everybody who's like coming on to spiritually week who's listening to us right now is to change your relationship with that feeling and notice can I actually do the hard thing which is say, hey, I need a friend. So how many times people go through their entire lives? I'm watching the comments coming in in my feed as I started to post about this it is alarming. Sahara, how many people are like I, oh, I'm afraid of saying I need to anyone. I'm not saying that word in our society has socialize us into the word need being disgusting, being a weakness. You know, it's so wild when you start to really understand how we have been socialized to see a basic vital human need as something to be ashamed of.

So I'm going to assume you're loving this podcast. I mean I really hope you are. But imagine how dope this podcast would be in real life. Like imagine all of us listening to this podcast, hanging out, twerking up a storm, listening to spiritual teachings, putting some glitter on our faces, looking sparkly. AF well that's actually taking place over at the highest self festival. Yes, I have created my own festival and it's taking place on none other than 4:20 in Austin, Texas which is like the middle of America. Everyone can get there and it's going to be the best day of all of our lives. We did this as a weekend last year and now it's going to be outside. Drummers, dancers. I'm be live performing my album My body is an altar. The sacred site is me. So if you want to dance with me, learn from myself and other incredible spiritual teachers and embody your highest self, then come to the highest self festival. You can head over to highest self festival.com to get your tickets and I am so excited to invite you inside again. That's Highest self festival dot com. You can find that link in the show notes. And I can't wait to dance with the ALTAR that is YouTube. So if you're anything like me, you're super busy, often too busy to cook. But eating healthy is imperative for you. So I recently discovered factor and what I love about them is they have all sorts of meals from protein plus vegan, veggie, keto, calorie smart. With a weekly menu of over 35 options. They're ready to go on the table in two minutes. So it's not like one of those things you have to like actually pretty much cook yourself, but they've also never been frozen so it does have that more fresh feeling. They also have over 60 add ons every week like breakfast on the go, lunches, snacks and beverages. So for example, if you're going to the office on Sundays you can change up your order or if you're traveling somewhere going on an airplane, you can get an order specifically for that and you can tailor it to your schedule to get as many or as little as you need each week. And they're also celebrating Earth Day all month long. So you can look out for the Earth month eats badge on the menu for the lowest carbon footprint Meals. Now head over to factor meals.com Sahara50 and use coupon Sahara50 to get 50% off your first box plus 20% off your next box. That's code SAHARA50@factormeals.com Sahara50 to get 50 off your first box and 20% off your next box. And you can find that link in the show notes. So trust your intuition, trust your inner wisdom, trust your inner guidance, Close your eyes and listen. I love that so much because when we're able to sit in our aloneness, then we can come to our community. Not from this. Like, I just need to distract. Like, I see sometimes these memes and it's like, oh, those friends that you hang out with to just scroll on TikTok together. It's like, why would you hang out with your friend to just be on TikTok?

But I think that should not be allowed. That meme should be crossed over.

Oh, it's like the most shared one. It's like friends that you don't have to even talk to. You just scroll on social media next to each other. And I see, and I'm like, that's just. Now we're side by side, lonely. So why is it. Let's talk about vulnerability? Because I think that's like the big thing of, you know, we are so blessed. But I. Cause I was thinking before, I'm like, why do we have such, like, our friendship? We have such amazing friendships. But I'm like, it's not that we were like. It's like we sought out each other and we continued to open up and we continued. So why is it that most people have a hard time with the vulnerability of being like, I need a friend or opening up? Where is this wound, like, coming from and how do we start to heal it?

That's a really good question. And in the book, I call it turning the lights on. Actually, I don't know if that's the name of the chapter, but it's about turning the lights on in your inner world. And it has to do. There's many layers to this. And it has to do with the fact that our inner homes are so messy that we don't want to invite anyone in. And it's same thing with our house. We don't want to invite anybody over when the house is messy. We're like, I'm not doing that. You don't get to see me in my messy, dirty house, my dirty bathroom, the laundry pile on the couch. You don't get to see any of that. You don't get to see the pile of dishes in the sink. You don't get to see any of this. You don't get to see all the, you know, toothpaste in my mirror that I haven't cleaned for a couple months. You don't get to see any of that. But we're not, we're not under. We're underestimating how much we do this with our inner world, how much we have about our biography that's unloved, how much of our personal stories that's unloved, and all the little bits of our personal story that isn't loved shows up as a shield to protect you away from engaging and connect. Does that make sense? So, and it's this. The work of connecting and transforming can't be one or the other. They kind of have to happen simultaneously. So let me give you an example. You may finally look at a part of your story and say, I forgive myself for having done that awful thing. I forgive myself for having hurt that person, or I forgive that person for having hurt me, or whatever. Let's. I always bring forgiveness to the the pot because it stirs up stuff for people. We all have forgiveness work to do. We all have some releasing of the desire to punish another person in our lives to do. That's the basis of what forgiveness offers us. So in the spiritually we world, the equation of liberation, it requires you to do 50 to understand that 50% of the work is between you, your body, your mind, your heart. Which means it's you and your story, you and your past. And the other 50%, it's you and the community. A lot of the times what you see in the space is protect your peace. I'm in my villain era, me, mine. And I manifest, manifest, manifest. What do I want? What do I need? What's all about me? And we're misunderstanding the purpose of spirituality versus personal development, which I'll touch on that in a second. But going back to not inviting people in, not being vulnerable, test your material. When you have done some forgiveness work and you feel like you have landed at a piece, at a piece of relaxation and ease around some area of your biography, see if you can offer that to another person in the world. See if you can help somebody else experience the peace that you're experiencing. And that will start to build intimacy. And it really does not only build intimacy, but stabilizes your insights, which I think a lot of people are not allowing insight to stabilize because they keep protecting themselves. They keep hashtag boundaries for everything. And it's really interesting when you look at the way people put their boundaries when they don't even know what they value. And if you don't know what you value and you don't live in integrity with your values, you cannot put a boundary up because you don't know where your edge is and how to respect what you value and live by those values and educate people energetically how you live your life. That's what boundaries are meant to do, and that's what they're here to support us to do. So to answer your question, in short, people are not being intimate or engaging with other people because they haven't done the loving work in themselves. While you're not. You're not meant to do this entirely on your own. You're supposed to do half of it on your own and half of it out in the community, right? It's this beautiful dance of like, have I internalize this? Have I had a moment of insight? Let me test the depth of my insight by engaging with other people. And then you really realize that unless we have the context of each other rubbing up against each other, you know, my old stuff coming up and your old stuff coming up and us going butting heads, we won't truly understand what it's like to be free. Because it's one thing for you to be peaceful and forgiving and kind and body loving and joyful in your apartment by yourself. It's another thing for you to can you bring that peace to the people in your life? Can you actually let your inner transformation become socially integrated, which is a core value in spiritually, we, and you look at centenarians, people who live the longest in the world, they're socially integrated. I can't help myself. I went to get some blood work this morning. Within five minutes, I am talking to this Russian woman about the ways capitalism has colonized her life and has hurt her and hurt her family and why she's leaving and why she's doing this. It's within moments of meeting anybody. I am so alive and authentic and so relaxed in who I am and the life I'm living that I call that from other people. You have that power too. But this is training, this is work. This is years of. Of bringing presence into every area of our lives. Now, the doorman in the building, the barista, the person who's filming the show, everyone could receive the love and care that we only restrict to certain people. Dr. Lissa Miller, this iconic scientist that I speak to in the book, she says, practice seeing people as souls on earth because the same area in the brain that we use to relate to other people is the same area in our brain that we use to relate to the higher power, to the highest self, to use your language to connect to God. So social interactions are inherently spiritual. So but we're not using that because we're so untrained. We're not socializing. And a great way to start to socialize is to be socially integrated. Start with strangers everywhere. I went on a rant.

Well, I have so much to say to that. Okay, I want to talk about the spiritual narcissism that is pose as spiritual content out there. You are completely right. We're fucking obsessed with boundaries. Oh, protect your peace. Cut them off. Protect, protect.

Toxic, toxic, toxic.

Everything's toxic. This. I had a friend who. She could see the red flags in everyone, and she's like, I can't help it. I just see right through people. And this person's a problem because of this. That person's a problem, that everyone is a fucking problem to her. And she's like, I guess you just don't see it. I'm like, babe, I see those same things, but I don't let it stop me from being someone's friend, because who am I to say I don't have those things? And she doesn't have those things. And eventually the same person cut me off too. And great, now she can live in her protected peace bubble by herself forever. And is that what you really want? It's like relationship. We can only experience the depth of love through the messiness of intimacy. And I say something, and I have no idea how it will land in you because I have no idea how you are perceiving in your childhood traumas. And I can do my best to know, but I won't really know. And it's like, how fun is it to play tennis by yourself? You gotta play with a partner. And it's that unknown and that spontaneity that makes it come alive. And, you know, in the context of friendships, like, when I see you go through your life experiences, even though they're different from mine, I learn from you, even if I'm. We're not talking sometimes, but I'm watching you and I'm learning from you. And then you can always, like, drop in. And it's like, we don't learn life if we're in a vacuum. We don't get feedback if we're in a vacuum. But we're so afraid of the unknown. We're so afraid of someone saying something that will throw us off. And we don't have, like our perfectly posed thing. And like, we are literally living in these apartment buildings on our phones, in these boxes, sanitized, cubicled, forever waiting for this perfect friend who's going to fill out the box exactly how we want this perfect partner and exactly how we want. And if we can't do it, we'll just get a fucking AI to do it. And it's like, great. Your AI friend and your AI girlfriend and your AI this and your AI that. What's the point of life?

You're creating a life of misery. I'm sorry to use a bold language, but I also want to name two things. And I know you're still in the train of thought, but you brought something up, really, that I need to just name. So scientific evidence shows that that social pain is translated in the brain as physical pain. Excuse me. So that friend who's protecting her peace, protecting their peace, protecting their peace, saying, everyone's got all these red flags. One, learn from something like, understand this. Someone is constantly saying red flags everywhere. What's in here? What's going on in here? Have you. Are you looking at your own red flags?

Yeah.

So we can arrive at a point where we're protecting our peace so much. But if we're not nurturing connection in our lives because we're protecting our peace, we are avoiding conflict, we're avoiding loss and change and grief and hardship, which are all inevitable aspects of human life. You will at some point experience social pain, and that social pain will be translated as physical pain in your body, and you're gonna have to treat that. So it's a matter of, of. Of. It's a matter of choice. Do you want to engage with life and. And have your heart broken and. And. And have different opinions and one of the greatest gifts of the spiritual path of 10 years of practice for me is I feel deeply connected to everyone and everything. Not 100% of the time, but a lot of times. And I'm not afraid of having hard conversations. I'm not afraid of saying, bitch, we have to sip the tea. We have to talk. This is what's been coming up. When this happens, I feel this. And never approaching conflict with, like, you make me feel this way. Erasing the socialized view that people have the capacity to put a feeling inside of you because it's impossible. We have evocative empathy. Right. I can feel what you're feeling. But if the feeling lasts for longer than its natural cycle, which they're short lived sensations, that's what feelings are. It's your own that's been coming up. It's your own confusion, it's your own terror, it's your own abandonment, it's your own rejection, it's your own depression, it's your own anxiety. It's not that that person is depressing and they make me depressed. It's not.

No one can. And I think it's our inability to have hard conversations that we would rather not even get engaged in the friendship than have a friendship where there are inevitable starts and stops. And so we would rather say, oh yeah, it's all good, cut the person off than the mending that happens that actually strengthens a friendship.

Oh my God. Deepens the intimacy.

Yeah, but we're so afraid of doing that. So I want to talk about. A lot of people say, well, I don't even know where to find friends. So how can one, you know, our story of how we Met was in 2017.

Yeah, 2017. Yeah, yeah. Oh my God.

It was beginning of 2017. Or maybe it was 2016. No, 2017.

Because 2016 is when I got back. I was living in Switzerland the summer of 2016 and I got back back to New York, fall 2016. And then I started to like come on the scene. 2017.

So you. I joined this online group called Moon Club and it was like Ruby Warrington, right.

And Alexandra Rockstar.

This is seven years ago. And people weren't like doing memberships. It was like a subscription about like the new and full moon. And then you were the first guest teacher. You taught like a meditation workshop. And I just loved your energy. So I personally reached out to you on Instagram like, oh my God, I love what you're all about. You said you lived in New York. I'm like, I'll let you know when I come. And then a few months later I was coming to New York and I reached back out to you and you said, that weekend I'm going to be at this science and yoga conference at Long Island University, you can come meet me there. And I came late and I was just sitting in the back and that's when Deepak Chopra walked on stage.

Yeah.

And I watched.

I actually asked Eddie Stern to give us two tickets because it was like, like expensive to get to. And back in the day it was like, you know.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

So we are angels on each other's Paths, for sure, in so many ways. But had I not reached out to you, a total stranger, you know, the fear of rejection was totally there. Here's this cool guy, like, teaching, and I'm didn't have a book out or a podcast or anything. Then, you know, I just reached out to you, but you said yes. And then you invited me to something that was a common interest. And then, like, we both ended up working with Deepak and, you know, the rest is history.

Yeah.

And so I share this because it's not like we, like, met at a soiree. You know, it's like we were strangers just like everyone else. We did not have books. We did not really have platforms at that point, really. And I just slid in your DMs, and here we are.

That's right.

So I feel like people often think, like, making friends. If I don't have, like, a job and I don't meet people or whatever else, I'm not an author. So where do you suggest people go to start making aligned friends?

It's a simple statement, but be where you wish to be found. It's a very simple statement, but if you want to meet people who like to dance, go to a dance class. If you want to meet people who like to go to a fucking carnival in a foreign country, go there and don't get trashed. You know, if you want to meet people who are into psychospiritual, somatic, social impact work, go to those places. You know, one of the greatest places to meet people, and one of the places. One of the longevity traits of people who live the longest is service. It's actually going to volunteer. So I say to all my students and people who graduate out of my teacher training are required to spend up to two hours, a minimum of two hours in service. And I give them a category of where they should be doing it to really stretch their container. And it's one. A beautiful thing to happen. So many times you meet people who, if you're. If you're really driven to create impact and be of service, volunteering is a great. It's a great opportunity for you to, you know, I'm. I'm going to say to feed two birds with one seed or with one. I'm. I was eating BlackBerry on my way here, so I'm thinking, do birds even like blackberries? No, but whatever. To feed two birds with one seed with one piece of food is. Is volunteering is a great way for you to meet people who like to do the same things you do, and you're also helping people. You're literally nurturing yourself physiologically, psychologically, and spiritually in ways that you cannot even imagine by doing that simple action, you know, so be where you used to be found and change your approach to what you think friends should be. You know, I think this is a big thing. I think a lot of people keep wanting to. For all their friends to be like, let's say you're on your. You're on your successful era. And you're like, I'm killing it. I'm doing all these cute things, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, everyone in my group should be doing the same. Let me tell you something. You know my story. You've been there when I was working with some of the most famous people in the world, a very famous couple. And, you know, if you look up, you can quickly see some of these extremely famous people that I've worked with. Let me tell you who's on that plane, who's at their house, their friends from high school, they're friends from their neighborhood. And I'm not talking about the neighborhood that they live now, the neighborhood that they grew up. So the idea that you can cycle through friendships over and over again every season, have new friends, because it gets a little hard. Bye, girl. Stop. Some of the most famous people in the world, their core group of friends are not a bunch of famous people sitting at their dining table. No, they're people that they can trust. They're people that they've gone through hell and back. Who, when they were trying to make it it, they were there. When they were trying to make it, they were sleeping in their couch. And now that person may not be rich and famous and whatever, but they're still there. They still call you back. They still show up for you. They're that person that will give you the clear feedback. I have seen, yes, people around very famous people all the time. And it's awful to be around. Yes, people who just says Sahara, look great. Sahara with the you're doing is wonderful. Sahara. Oh, my God, you're perfect. It's like, no, no. Help me manicure myself. Help me edit my life. Help me see what I'm not seeing. Those are the friends, you know, and the social media has atrophied, has severed the limb of connection. We don't know how to reach out and to engage. We don't know how to say to the fabric with this person next to us in yoga. What's up, girl? That was such a fucking look. You're so hot. Wow. I loved practicing next to you. That was so beautiful. Thank you. Do you want to grab tea? That we are so terrified of anything that has to do. Where we're putting ourself out there, where we are emphasizing, I need connection, I need a friend. But then also, I have to be honest, if you're rusty, it is really, really hard to know the vocabulary, to know what to say, how to say, how to communicate. This is why I wrote this book. Because I have seen so many people not know how to engage with other people, not even know how to give a hug, not even know how to look into their eyes. When we're talking, we're like merging. I was just in your kitchen before and we were just like. I was like, oh, my God, whose eyes are these? Are they mine? Who's like, where do I end? Where do you begin? Like, we. We arrive at this beautiful place of merger because we're so relaxed in who we are that we allow conversations to just flow. We're not filtering, holding back, restricting, you know, because we're unafraid of being judged, you know.

So this song you're listening to right now is my song called Self Love Anthem. And it's really about letting go of the past and choosing to be in your sacred solitude. You know, sometimes when we're single, we're like, oh my God, why am I alone? Why don't I have a partner? But instead, to make the most of this experience, let go of the past Now I'm moving on my own no more looking back Now I'm chilling on my throne Raise my vibration now I'd rather be alone Working that back Y' all can watch at home Oops, did I drop my jewelry? I put it in the bag Cuz this level ain't new to me the way I manifest the like deja vu to me they all want a piece for I I'm only true to me I don't need no breadcrumbs I'm a feast Never see me tripping Only glow came for me how can she be so cold when she from the Middle East? I don't do no diagrams but you're only quantum leap so if you love those lyrics, that's the kind of music we're going to be vibing to in my new album, My Body is at Alter, which is now available on Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube, SoundCloud, wherever you listen to music. So this is music for the embodied baby girls. I produce every beat, infusing Afrobeats, dance hall, Brazilian, Frank, reggae, the things that I love to get down to with high vibe lyrics that you feel good about getting stuck in your head. So if you love this song, it's playing in the background right now. You're gonna love the rest of my music as well. So head over to Spotify. Wherever you listen to your music, type in Sahara Rose. The album is called My Body is an Altar. You can also find those links in the show notes and I am super excited to see you make reels with them, use them in your stories, dance to them, tag me at I am Sahar Rose so I can reshare and celebrate with you. It makes me so happy to see you wilding out, shaking your ass for your ancestors because that is what the spiritual movement is all about. It's not about leaving our bodies, but being here in our bodies and making it fun, sexy, juicy. Because baby girl, we're here on planet Earth. Let's make the best of it. Your body's an altar. The sacred site is you. So head over to the show notes to listen to the album and I can't wait to see you dance to it. So meditation is often really hard for me to just like sit down in the middle of my day and have no thoughts. However, I notice if I do breath work first, it is such a game changer because breath work regulates your nervous system. So what happens when you practice breath work is you come into this relaxed state of being where meditation becomes effortless. So I started doing, doing open, which is the most amazing meditation, breath work, Pilates. Like it is everything in one app. And the design is like so like Chef's kiss. Beautiful. But they have this nervous system reset. It's a 31 day challenge. I've been doing it. So it's all about daily practices including managing your inner critic, looking at your vagus nerve, looking at your body's alarm system, the power of ritual, deep listening, play, rest, verse, distraction, discipline, over, over motivation, and so much more. I'm about halfway through the challenge right now and I already feel so much more grounded and relaxed. And it really helps me because sometimes at the end of the day I kind of revenge scroll and it helps me actually focus on doing something that is more therapeutic for my body, which really what it needs is rest. So you can try my breathwork routine over on the open app and you get one month free with my link. So just head over to with open.com Sahara that's with W-I-T-H-Open O-P-E-N.com Sahara to get one month free. And you can find that link in the show notes. So trust your intuition, trust your inner wisdom. Trust your inner guidance. Yeah, I love what you said about, like, I think a big part of it is everyone's just instantly on their phone. So the moment the yoga class ends, we all grab for our phones and we assume someone has somewhere better to be, and I don't want to bother them and start a conversation with them. And, you know, they think I'm annoying or they're just talking, so it's like, I would rather not. But that person's just reaching their phone because they're. They're feeling awkward. To be honest, if someone's going out to a yoga class or going out to anything, they want to be approached. Because these days, you can do your yoga, your everything at home. Like, you're actually going out and going to a gym or going to whatever because you want to be around people. But like, I was thinking, even at the gym, like, back in the day, people would make friends at the gym. They would talk, they would drink water, they would hit on each other. Other. That doesn't happen anymore.

Everyone is on their phones.

Their AirPods are plugged in. These AirPods are a detriment to friendships because I'm like, I'm not gonna walk up to someone. They might be listening to a podcast. They might be this, they might be that. And like, everyone's in their own worlds, you know, before we know, we're the glasses on, too. And then for, you know, you're just in pods. It's straight up matrix. So it's like these AirPods, like, they're not meant to be worn all the time. But then you see memes again of people. Like, who else is the type to put on their AirPods so people don't talk to them. And it's again, this, like, everyone's annoying. Protect your peace. No one el when we all, like, deeply desire those friendships. So, yeah, and I think it's like, who can you really trust in those times? One big thing I learned in my divorce, like, I never was, like, truly, Like, I was vulnerable with friends, but not to the level that I, like, needed them, you know, because I had a husband, you know, and it was just a different relationship. So I would tell my friends things, but I kind of would first go to him, then I'd go to friends. Once you're going through something big like a divorce, your friends become your family. They become your lifeline. And at first I felt like I was so annoying. Like, I was like, I Am so annoying. Like all I'm doing is like voice noting people and like crying and it's so heavy. Everything I'm talking about right now and like I would just like apologize all the time of like I'm so sorry. I'm like bringing this to you. And I know you were going through your own grief thing at that time too. And you know, I was telling my. I would send these like 20 minute voice notes to Rosie sometimes and then feel so bad, dad, you know, and.

But she's in your core five.

She totally is. But I was just not used to really leaning on my friends like that. But it made our friendship so much closer.

Yeah.

And there were so many times that I'm like, if this is ever annoying you want to break, just like let me know and I can like pause this. And she never did, you know. And like then I would try to like self resource a little bit more and get on my own feed and like just record the voice note to myself. But like it's made it. There was a wall definitely that I had with friends before. Cause I just wanted to come and like be fun and like have a great convers that's in equal parts interesting for them. I was always very mindful of like, I don't want to be the one taking over the conversation, but when you're going through something really heavy, like a kind of loss, you do sometimes need to take over the conversation.

But it's not really taking over.

Yeah.

You know, I think we have to just refrain from that language because your.

Friends want to support you. Yes. And they're going to have a season too.

Exactly. And we have to understand we have to give people the opportunity to be of service. Service. We're giving them a gift. We are misinterpreting service because our culture is obsessed. We're not a. We're not. We don't put in the COVID of magazines frontline workers, practitioners who are out on the field who are sometimes Time magazine puts like, you know, a few people together or out of the 40 most successful women on the COVID of Vogue, you know, there's a couple people who are like, oh, she's a scientist who solved this problem. This is a nurse who actually helped all these people. Like very few. We're very much obsessed with people who are not in the front line, who are not being of service in these very intricate, practical ways. We are celebrating the opposite of care. And it shows in our psyche, it shows in our lives. So thinking that, oh, it's a burden for her it all has to do. It's all like our own ways that we've been socialized and colonized and indoctrinated to perceive ourselves as innately a burden. It goes back to a sort of a core wound which happens right when you start, when you come back into Earth. I like to say, you know, I think the. The greatest core wound in humanity is a sense of. Of inadequacy. It's a sense that we are innately flawed, that there's something wrong with us. So we spend our whole lives doing everything we can to distract ourselves from that core sense that there's something wrong with me. So let me just overeat. Let me. Let me sweeten my life with plug in your poison as a way to experience sweetness. But the truth of it, once you do the work of being of help to another person, once you show up to let someone unburden you, start to get a glimpse of your inherent nature, of your spirit, of your soul, of your highest self, which is inherently benevolent, inherently sweet, inherently good. So there's a lot of unsocializing that has to happen in order for people to show up to a relationship, knowing. Knowing that they are good as they are and the other person, too. Practicing the books called Radical friendliness or Approaching life as a sacred friend is can you walk earth seeing everybody as a soul on earth? Can you walk life seeing everyone as a Buddha? Can you actually enter a class or. I was at the doctor's office earlier today. Can I see all these people in the waiting room as Buddha, Buddhist? I got there, I was a little agitated because it was running late. Histor, you know, like on Brand for me, I saw a pause and I said, wow, look at all these Buddhas waiting for their appointment. What. How epic that I get to be in a room with all these Buddhists. Like, you got to use the power of the mind to penetrate through the walls, keeping you away from experiencing your inherent goal, goodness. So you really have to. And the way to do it, it's not just, I'm fine, I'm safe, I'm this, I'm that, I'm the best, I'm the baddest bitch, I'm shift the gaze. If you want to experience your benevolence, if you want to experience your goodness, if you want to experience your sweetness of heart, see others as sweetness of heart. Experience. Think about their humanity. And if you're feeling. If you really lost the plot and you're like, oh, I'm burning. Understand the seasons of life. Everyone is going to go through loss, everyone's going to go through grief, everyone's going to go through rejection, abandonment. These are basic experiences that every human goes through. So pretending that another person is not going to go through it, and I'm the bad one, or I'm the weird one, or I'm the strange one that's going through it now, and I'm taking over the conversation f all of that. You are creating a platform of intimacy. You're reminding that person that they can reach out to you too when they go through it, the inevitable time that they will.

You know, I think it was like my big fear of not reading her energy, that it was too much for her. So I would always be like, is this too much for you? Is this this? And it was like this. I was, like, so afraid of being narcissistic that I would, like, be apologetic about even sharing how I felt.

That's right.

You know, which I think a lot of us empath people, we never want to be like that, that we go so far the other way. And I think it is good to check in with people as well. If all you're doing is, you know, sharing and sharing, maybe. Maybe there is a limit for that person. But then I would have to trust that she can have that boundary internally. You know, she doesn't need to respond to my voice notes whenever. Like, I would just have to trust that she would be able to hold that however that she desires to. And like, now I'm like, again, I hope she never has to go through anything that. But I'm like, I will be there for her the way that she was for me, and it will be my honor to. And now every time I see someone goes through something, divorce, death, I'm like, I just treated in such a different way that I would have never fully understood before that it really is. It rocks your world and there's layers and you're, like, disassociated for a long time and.

And sick physically.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah. So. And another thing too, of. Of seeing everyone like a Buddha. I also recognize after my divorce, I just became a lot more intimate with people in general, you know, because I think also when you are living on your own, some days you don't see people. You're. Sometimes your only interaction is the person at the grocery store. And so before I think me, I was just like, kind of focused on what's next. And, you know, they. I'm checking out, I'm on my phone and this. And I would just like, really notice people and have Conversations and just be a lot more open to them. And I recognize why people in small towns are like that and why they're so much happier, because it's not like friendship is like only their core five friends. But it's like everyone gets to be your friend.

And you named something, really, you named something here that I address. Address in a book. Two things. The what's next? This mantra is poisonous. This mantra of what's next is literally perpetuating the capitalistic agenda, making us produce when we are exhausted, when we are lonely and we're sick. And it's pushing us to put something else out there, to do something else, because unless we do something every single day, every single moment of the day, we are not worthy of connection. So the what's next should be. Should be changed to what's right here. Yeah, what's right here. And what's right here is when you get to engage with people. And then that leads me to another point that I make in the book. It's a culture of hello, how are you pretending culture. And the hello, how are you good culture is literally perpetuating walls, holding us hostage to. To pretending that we're okay when no one is okay. Pretending that the life life is only summer. Pretending that human life is only joy. Pretending that human life is only good vibes, you know, and forgetting. We're robbing ourselves the opportunity of experiencing our full humanity of grief, of pain, of sadness, of sorrow, of fear, of anger. You know, we are saying to people, live in the daytime only. We're robbing people of the. Of the intensity and the experience of the darkness of night. Nighttime and the fragrances and the. What grows at night and what can be nurtured and explored at nighttime. And I'm using sort of like a metaphor, but it's also, like, so true how much we are afraid of the night, how much we're afraid of the darkness. All based in this idea that happiness is the only purpose of human life, not openness. You know, we are robbing ourselves from experiencing the full humanity. And you have people constantly, everywhere. Hello, how are you? Good, good. And I'm like, I. One of my gifts, one of your gifts, it's actually being able to just pause for a second and like, empathetically resonate with someone and know you're not okay. And I'm not projecting it. And like, the moment that I bring my presence to the space and I say, what's going on? I kid you not, nine out of ten times, there's a softening the Eyes start to, well, the lips start to quiver, the redness comes up to the tip of the nose. Hands start to shake, you know, a little parch in the throat, maybe a little tremble. Like all the ways that we have practiced and we're practicing being so present and actually genuinely offering a loving ear and a loving connection to the other, to the, to the soon to be from friend. You know, the one of the things that I tell all my students and I write in the book, stop going around life with hello, how are you? Unless you have the time and the presence, time and presence to be able to hear. Because if you don't have the time, you're. It's an obvious one. But the presence, what happens with the presence? You're actually able to hear what someone is saying and not internalize it and not hold on to it and not ruminate on it and not feel the need, need to up what they're doing, what they're saying, or down what they're saying, which is so often. Our inferiority complex and our superiority complex show up in relationships so often that when someone's talking to us in our mind, we have to immediately find a superior narrative to address as a point of contact or find the inferior narrative as a point of contact. And this is robbing you from just listening. We know what it's like to receive the warmth of somebody just by how they look at you. And the quality of presence has a quality of warmth. Anything that's met with warmth, what happens, it softens, it changes. So we're not offering warmth through the depth of our presence to the other. This is why we are holding onto our past. This is why we're holding onto our stories. This is why we talk to someone for 30 minutes or 20 minutes or an hour and we don't feel processed, we don't feel unburdened. Why? Because you're talking, someone's in their phone, you're talking. They have all these tabs open in their mind, they can't offer you undivided attention. And it's wonderful that we have all this language to analyze the neurospiciness of our brain, the challenges of our mind. Right? It's wonderful we have all this language. However, we're pathologizing and over identifying ourselves with our, with the challenges that, that our mind has, which are actually protective mechanisms helping us to engage with life in what it seems, what it deems as safe. Am I making sense?

Oh, massively. I mean, I think we are so wired to check our phones constantly for like the most interesting thing that if someone is saying something that we don't deem as super interesting, it's this like, urge to check our phone.

That's right.

And I was with my dad this weekend and you know, parents are not. They don't talk in perfect cliff note sentences like we do. They tell stories. They this, they that. And I was with two of my friends and they both went on their phones while he was talking, you know, and I just, I just noticed it and they're still responding to him. But you know that like you're having a conversation with someone, but your eyes are on your phone. Phone.

How rude.

Well, I just.

Wow.

And he kept talking and I just like, it was this like, sadness of like, that generation is just, you know, so not used to people like, okay, you're not holding my attention enough. I'm going to check my phone.

Well, that's what I'm saying. We're.

We're this where society, it's normal.

Well, it's not normal. We've normalized sick. We've normalized this insatiable way of keeping us keeping, Keeping us keeping, Keeping ourselves distracted. We are. What I was saying with my point is that we're normalizing being hyper distracted.

Yes.

And we're normalizing. Oh, it's okay.

I have multitasking.

I have this thing and I have that thing. And this is why I have. It's like, yo, I understand. But when it comes to your basic need for friendship, for connection, you can try a little harder.

Yeah.

And there's a way of engaging. Okay, cool. Yesterday I was out on a hike with a friend, and we're sitting on. Down this. On this big rock. And then I prompted my friend with this really tough subject that of something that I know it's going on in, in his life really, really hard. And he looked at me and we started talking and he said, let's walk and talk. So if maybe having deeper conversations requires you to walk, walk and talk. I have therapy walking, you know, or I need to do it in person. Person. For me, voice notes is a great way of connecting. FaceTime is a great way of connecting. Zoom dates a great way of connecting. But prioritize undivided attention. And I'm sad for those people who went on their phones in front of an elder. This then leads me to another point that I actually didn't write about in the book because my work in the hospital came six months after my mother died. And training to be a chaplain at Cedars Sinai and working with. With the Sick and dying really has showed me something that statistics from last year shows that 40% of the elderly population struggles with social connections, which means struggle with. Social connection means you're not in touch with your family and you don't have friends. 40% right. Struggle with. But what I have realized talking to social workers, case managers at one of the biggest hospitals in America, which means one of the best hospitals in the world. World. 60% of the elderly population comes into a hospital, has no social contact. Meaning the only point of contact they have are the people who are helping them, the healthc care practitioners who are taking care of them in their homes. So they have no friends, they have no family. And we know what happens when we put. When we bring somebody elderly out of the hospital and we shuffle them into a nursing home. Their health declines drastically. We are robbing people of longevity life because of our inability to prioritize connection. And obviously it's really hard to make friends in your 30s. It's really hard to make friends in your 40s. It's really hard to make friends in your 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s even. But we are right now. If you're listening to this, it's a call to action. Literally you got to prioritize connection. You have to seek out friendship. You have to show up for them and allow the friends to unburden what's going on for you. But then c. Is it trauma bonding? Is it all that we do is just shit talk and being a victim story. And there's always a villain. Are we always villainizing something and someone? Because if that's what you're doing, then the conversation, the relationship isn't liberatory, isn't freedom based. It's story based, which is different.

Yeah. Like I've also noticed that sometimes when one person pulls out their phone in a group, it gives everyone else permission. And then everyone's like, ah. It' like check phone time. And then we like do this weird dance. They are like my text messages and my whatsapps and my Instagram and my email, my this. And it's almost like we're always looking for like something better than the thing that's right there in front of us. It's like I'm looking for a text from my other friend, but I'm here with you. And it's like, why? And I do think it's the way that these apps are wired to make our brains craving another adrenaline, hit another dopamine, hit another something. So it's the this like neurological unraveling. So how can we be more present when we're with community Breath.

It's, there's, we have to come home into our bodies. I think it comes down to somatics, I think it comes down to really doing your best effort to find the tools, the practices that train you to be in your body. Because what I like to say, people who are constantly seeking distractions, they're hovering their body, they, they're fully disconnected from living inside of their bodies. And it's a metaphor, right? Because we're de, we're definitely in our bodies. It's just the mind tricks us into the past, the future, or whatever it may be, whatever else, but here and now. And then I also want to say, you asked me why, why are we constantly seeking distraction? Why are we constantly seeking our phones? It has to do with the how much emotional baggage you're still carrying. Because the more emotional baggage you have, meaning the more you have in process, process the feelings of the past. The more you haven't felt what your body has felt, the more you haven't been where your body has been, the more it will be really difficult for you to be in the present moment. Because what's going to happen, it will start to unearth, it will start to unravel, it will start to come up. And what happens as it comes up? We are not trained to open and soften and allow the feeling to come up and pass. What's coming up is coming up to go, right? This is part of, of a, indigenous community's indigenous languaging that they have this, this gnosis, this knowing that if it's coming up, it's coming up to go. But we are socialized to push it down if it's coming up, oh, I don't want to feel anger, I don't want to feel sadness, I don't want to feel fear, I don't want to feel the grief, I don't want to feel the rejection, I don't want to feel the loneliness. It just comes up, it, it, it pokes its head and we're like, oh, how do I distract myself from feeling? Every time we don't feel our feelings, they create a home in our bodies. So when we're looking at a society of people hanging out with each other who could be co regulating, could be co creating and essentially co healing, right? Unburdening together, we're sitting, we're seeing restaurants and, and dinners and families and I mean all the whole world is wired to distract ourselves from feeling our feelings.

Feelings.

You know, the whole game is distracted is rigged in a way that will continue to perpetuate us, to be out of our bodies, out of our feelings, which robs us of the most intimate connection we will ever have, which is our feeling tone, our felt sense, you know. So my advice to people is next time you feel the urge to go on social media to distract, act, to run away from the present moment, do two things. First, what's the mind saying? What's the story saying? Okay, this is boring. I'm bored. They're boring. I want something else. How can I bring more? How could I change my state? Right? That's might be some of the main things that will come up for people. And then you've seen the story. Now do the somatic work of let go of the story. Coming to the body. Where, where in the body is the feeling that's prompting that story? And if you don't have somatic attunement, where, you know, where in the body is the feeling striking? You may want to do with your hand, how I'm showing you right now. You may want to put your hand on your chest, your hand on your belly, your hand in the back of your neck, you know, or like your hip area. Like, where is the feeling striking in your body? Because through somatic attunement, through body mind connection, you're going to quickly realize that it's a feeling asking you to be present. It's a feeling asking you to inhabit the body. It's a feeling asking you to take a deep breath. You know, we are so socialized and indoctrinated to internalize every feeling as a, as a messenger, as a, as a, you know, we're so internal, we're so socialized to give meaning to every single feeling. But the way you feel, you, your, your fear is different than the way I feel it. So feelings don't necessarily have inherent meaning because if you did, the way you, the way fear strikes in your body, we would all relate the same way if they were inherently fearful or inherently abandonment feeling, you know, are we, are you, are you tracking? Yeah, stop. Go to the body, where in the body is the feeling? And really quickly you're going to notice like, oh, this feeling is not inherently this or that. It's just a past and sensation calling me to take a deep breath, calling me back into my body, calling me to shift my gaze from the outer world to my inner landscape. Drop the stories, deal with the feeling, let go of the narrative, engage with the feeling in the body. And really slowly, slowly, the more you do this, when you are engaging with other people and you're engaged with the world. You're really going to realize that your insatiable thirst to run away from the present moment was a call to presence.

So beautiful. So I've always known in this lifetime I'm meant to live in community. Like, that always has been. So, like, if I think of my highest timeline, it's like we all have houses near each other and there's like, jungle and like, watering pool. We're sharing food and like, our children can grow up together. And like, I want that so badly, but it just feels like me too, we're doing it. It's happening. Yeah, but it just feels like right now we are called to live in cities because we're called to, you know, create and build. How can we bring in more intentional, like, community living when we are living in individual homes and apartments? Like, how can we get together with our friends in more intentional ways?

I mean, you're asking a huge fucking question, and I'm going to answer in a really, really simple way, which ties back to everything that we've been talking about out. Spend less time on social media. Rewire your biology to do the hard thing, which is to socialize, which is to engage, which is to say hello to the person next to you at the coffee shop, which is to. You're. You're a member at a members club, you're a member at this gym, you're a member of. You're a member of something, but your membership requires community. But you're a member of all these different communities, but you're not meeting any. Anybody, you're not engaging with anybody because you're so afraid of doing the thing that Sahara did or doing the thing that I did that I've done so many times. The things that you've done so many times. Hey, what's the tea? I like what you're doing. You want to hang out, but what happens is people are reaching out to the most aspirational person in their lives. Hey, do you want to have tea?

Right?

It's like, be where you're at, you know, like, and it's not to shoot yourself to, to underplay who you are, but look at where you're at right now. And it's way more fun to grow together than to be around people who are in a different stage in their life, you know?

For sure. Yeah. Like, I mean, there are so many people around us and I would love for. I mean, this is an idea, like, just to get together with your friends and you all like work, but like together in a room, you know, and like maybe spend a Saturday. Like you all have to do something, like doing it together. I think we, we like sometimes in our society, it's like you hang out with a friend and you're like having coffee and it's like tea and trauma. Here's my trauma. Here's your trauma. See you next month, you know, and it's like, how can we just like do more, like run errands together?

Like run errands together. Yeah, yeah. There's one thing I want to say that I didn't. We didn't talk about, which is such a big part of the book too. And it's something that's coming up in so many interviews that I'm doing for the book. It's the Dunbar research which shows that cognitively we only have the capacity to truly only know 150 people in our, our lives. So within the 150 you go into 50. Within the 50 you have 15. Within the 15 you have 5. So you have these concentric circles or these Saturn rings, whatever you want to call it.

Does that include your family?

Exactly.

It does. Okay.

It includes all of your connections, all of your friendships, all of your relationships. Now the 150 are the once in a lifetime events. Who are the people who are, are Wedding, funeral, those people that you invite for the once in a lifetime Hawaii big bash. Meet me in the resort, let's go wild. Some of those people, you, you've seen them in your wedding and then, you know, maybe never again. So that's the 150. Then go a little deeper. The 50, those are the big birthday bash or the big housewarming party. These are the people that you call your, your, you know, wealthy friend and say, I'm throwing a birthday for my 40th. I want to throw a birthday party for my 40th or my 21st or whatever. Can I borrow your backyard? That's the people who come, the 50. Now the 15, which then leads into the 5. These are the people that I want you to focus on. This is the most important people in your life. The 15 are people who are going to fly across the world when your mother died. The 15 are the people that you're going to call. I was in a silent retreat in Nepal with my ex boyfriend. My mother was actively dying. One of the people that, that called asking for support, Sahara calling us, me and my boyfriend in Nepal. Where were you at that point?

I was in Dubai and you told me to go to Bali.

You were In Dubai. And we said, let's meet in Bali. We're leaving the retreat early because I had conjunctivitis in both. Both eyes. I had torn a leg. I was having lung issues. I was having panic attacks. Was all the severing of the mother connection happening? And my. Somatically I was experiencing all this. All this chaos. But that you decided to call my ex boyfriend, which you clearly knew that we were together, so we would weave. So the 15 you guys not told me.

I wouldn't have come out.

Exactly.

Back to Miami.

Yeah.

My whole life would be different right now.

Exactly. Your whole life would have been different.

Yeah.

So that choice. And I remember exactly. I was. I had. We had left the monastery in the. In the break and we had come down to the Bora Natstupa, this really holy place to get acupuncture, because I was walking around a monastery with crutches because I had torn a ligament on my left foot. And I remember clearly, literally my ex boyfriend being on the phone with you and I. And then hearing what was happening as I was getting off the cab to enter the acupuncture office. Now, I'm saying all this to offer context. The 15 are the people that you're going to call when shit like that happens. The 15 of the people that you're going to call when your mother dies. The 15 that people that you're going to call that they're going to fly across the world to be there when your mother has died or when you got a divorce. They will show up for you. You in these experiences. Now, the five does include family. And the five. The one thing I want to say the five and the 15. One thing you guys share. Oftentimes this only happens in the Five. It's the plane of secrets. These are the people that will never manipulate your story against you. These are the people that they're going to hear you say, I've done this really awful thing I'm not proud of. They're not going to manipulate that against. Against you ever. They're going to be able. They're going to be. They're so relaxed in themselves. They've met their shadows. They've integrated their darkness so much that no matter what you throw at them, they will never have a punitive approach to your story. They never feel the need to punish you. They never feel the need to throw you under the bus. That is what we call the plane of secrets. People who can hold your secrets, who never use it against you in any way, no matter how. How where life throws you or the direction of you guys connection, they will always hold you in that plane room. Rumi speaks about this plane as the field beyond right or wrongdoing. Every mystical tradition has that plane. We're trying to arrive at that plane of non duality. No wonder why I have this tattooed on my right finger for a reason. So we can arrive at a plane where what people are offering us, we can see it from a place where the binary, where the polarizing view are dissolved. Not to say that that person doesn't have responsibility for the harm that they've caused, let's say. But we're not the one to make them feel bad for the bad that they've done. We are the ones who are participating in the restoration of their goodness, the restoration of their spirit in a way that they will not cause the harm again. Because we're restoring peace, not actively hurting those who are hurt.

You know, so that's a really good practice to do. Who are in your core five, the plane of secret?

Exactly 15 and in the book I have a. I have a specific list of questions to get you to actually see. Because unfortunately a lot of people who you spend the most time with are the people who are next to you in your cubicles, next to you at work. And are these the people that you want to spend the most time with? Probably not. But you are. How could you invite them into your core group if you're spending the most time with them? How could you, you soften the walls. How could you let somebody that's in the 50 or in the 150 who is actively trying to get into your core 15 or your core 5? But you keep, you keep them away because they don't fit the mold. They don't look this way, they don't do this or that. They don't fit the best self mentality. And I write about this in a book as a critical analysis of our society. The best self is built on ableism, fat folk, phobia, racism, queer phobia. It's built on all these structures that says our best self has to look a certain way. Our best self has to be a certain demographic, a certain population. And our best self shouldn't be based on any of these markers. The best self should be built on the depth of someone's presence, the warmth that they radiate. You know, I have best friends, close people who are in my core, friends five who are not, you know, doing the crazy that we're doing out in the world. No, they work a Very simple job. They're in a deep relationship, but they're there. They're there. And we get on the phone. It's immediate, the connection. There's no bells and whistles. It's immediately like, what's going on? Oh, immediately. And I think we have to just shift our view of who. Who belongs in our life and who doesn't. And the last thing I want to say about this, too, is the mind hates paradox, but the heart lives in it. The heart communicates in language, in the language of paradox, which means this friend does have some traits that are selfish or whatever, but they also have generosity. They can be a little annoying, but they're very funny. They can be a little this, but they're that. We are not allowing ourselves to have paradox. We're not allowing people to be more than what meets the eye. We're not allowing people to be. To be. To be their parts, you know, which holds us back from connecting, holds us back from seeing ourselves as more than our behaviors, you know?

Well, we live in such a trophy culture. It's like your boyfriend, your best friend, friend, and that's it. And then it's like, oftentimes when you're in a relationship, you don't even have the other four people. That's just that one.

That's right.

Expect them to be.

That's right.

Best friend, your lover, your financial partner, your business, your creative strategist. You're everything.

Yeah.

And then oftentimes, then when that relationship is done, you're looking for another relationship or we often have a one best friend. And it's like that one friend can't be everything, because every friend brings out. We have a different dynamic than you'll have with other friends and I'll have. And it's like. Like there's so many different flavors and parts of ourselves that we get to experience that certain friendships bring those things alive in us. There are these dormant sides of us that, like, only through the synergy and the alchemy that is created, like, certain people I'm with, and we just start channeling music together, and that's the friendship. We're just talking about music and lyrics and songs and this. And it's like. And that's the friendship. Certain people, it's like really deep and philosophical. Certain people, it's like super wild and playful, and it's like. And they're all in me, and it just comes out even more. And if we just, like, limit our friendship to one person. And I see a lot of, like, I see a Lot of girls do this. I'm not sure if men are as much like that. Of, like, I'm just looking for one best friend and, like, she's it. And then they'll have a best friend breakup, and they look for another one to replace this trophy. And it's not a healthy way of being because, yeah, everyone's a paradox. Everyone's a mixed bag. We're all part empath, part narcissist, part light, part shadow, part this part. That depends on the day, depends on the mood, depends on what you're seeing and seeing out of you and what's seeing in me. And it's like, how lonely of a world would we be in if we let one red flag get in the way of, like, the colors of a flag? I'm just thinking those, like, Nepalese flags, there's red, there's yellow, there's blue, there's this, there's everything. There's a red. But there's other ones, too. Enjoy them all.

You know, the Buddhist flags, the prayer flags, you're saying. And it's so interesting, you say about the red flags, how we often we allow one red flag to be the end of a relationship. I speak about this a lot in detail in the book, too. It's. We have lost the plot. We don't have resiliency when it comes to relating, you know, because we can.

Like, you know, I have a friend that. She's a very intense person. A lot of people, like, I don't understand how you're friends with her. And I'm like, I've never had a conflict with her because anything that happens, I just tell her, and it's all good, you know, and they're. But I think a lot of people, they just see an intense energy and they just stay away. And it's like, if you know yourself, you can play with these intensity because you have that ambidextrous. Rather than like what we were talking about before of just like putting on a wall and running away. So you have so much in there. I just love. The paradox piece is such a huge part of your work. And it's something that the deeper I go on this journey, you know, because you and I, the way that we used to show up on social media few years ago was very fun and light, and our skits and our this and that, and that is such a huge part of our dynamic as well. But I think both of us have been brought to our knees, you know, in different ways and experienced the other side of it and. And that's made us more rich in who we are and our dynamic and our relationships and everything that we're calling in. And I'm just so grateful to have you in my life as a brother, as a bestie, as someone walking this path with me. So where can people get this beautiful new book? Spiritually, we.

And wherever books are sold. And it's out. It's out. Now. Let's hold up the COVID Yes. Well, this is the uncorrected copy. Uncorrected proof, but it's out. Yeah. And I. What I have in here is this.

Ooh.

This is from my walk with my dad, my grief walk, the 500 mile grief walk that I did with my dad, El Camino Santiago.

Beautiful.

Yeah. I, I, this is my bookmark. My bookmark. And it's also just, just like, you know, it's a reminder of all the grief that comes from being human, you know, and how grief is so inevitable, and unless we have community, the grief becomes unbearable.

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for writing this book. I know it's going to guide so many people and alleviate loneliness which is at the core of all suffering. So thank you for taking on such a such a dense topic and bringing your fabulousness to it. It's so deeply needed. So you guys can check out this book link in the show notes. Be sure to order it, check it out, follow sa. He's such an amazing soul, as you just heard. And if you love this episode, please share it with your friends. This is a really good conversation to share with your friends, to, like, deepen your conversations of, like, maybe you're, like, you know, you have friends, you guys, like, have coffee once a month. But you, like, you want community. You want that, like, true fam that's gonna have your back. But sometimes it just takes us leaning in and taking that first step. So this would actually be an amazing book to, like, do a book club about with your friends and talk about it and, and dive deeper into it. So be sure to check that out and share the episode on your stories. Tag both of us, tell us your takeaways, and leave a review for it in the show notes. Tell us what you loved about this episode, and we're so excited to read it. All right, I'll see you in the next one. Trust your intuition. Trust your inner wisdom. Trust your inner guidance. Cluster you guys in the cent, so trust your intuition. Trust your inner wisdom. Trust your inner guidance.