546: Balancing Your Nervous System While Dating + Why Celibacy May Be The Move with Anna Nassery

Tricky part of the journey. And you're like this too, because you're very intelligent and you're very tuned in. And then sometimes it gets confusing. For me, I was very confused because my gut was saying no to him as more than a friend for these reasons. But then I was questioning that. I thought that was my pattern. I thought this guy was being so available for me, so fucking loving to me. He would give me the world. He moved mountains for me. He did literally like everything for me. And he was there for me, gave me his time, gave me his energy. So I was like, oh, maybe that's not my gut telling me it's a bad idea. Maybe that's my pattern of being like, look, this guy really loves you. And I'm turned off by that, which was why I jumped in. So it's like, huh, this feels like a good edge because this feels like it's super available for me, so I'm going to jump into it. And as soon as I did, the tide shifted. As soon as I opened up my availability, then I think he was just like.

So it's like, then how do we know who to trust?

So my main intention was building my roster.

So I had this crazy past life with this guy.

I was actually considering a hoe phase.

So I decided to be celibate for over a year.

And then we both had our lover.

Girl era, which we're still in, but it's unrequited.

I really work to build trust and safety within myself. So I wasn't outsourcing that.

I started sitting with a lot of hot pay, thanks to you.

I feel like I'm addicted to nicotine now.

You probably are addicted to a lot of things, but it's okay because they're all under the plant medicine category.

Yes, yes.

So Trauma Bond or Karmic Twin Flame? Which one?

Both.

What would you do if a guy follows a bunch of only fans and girls? At what point of dating someone do you look at everyone they follow?

Hey, we all got a little investigator in us, you know?

I mean, if you haven't read a background report. Do you even care? Do you even care?

Yeah, you gotta be a little stealth sometimes.

Do you think we're get canceled for this conversation?

I hope so.

Please, I need a break.

Have you really made it?

Unless you can't cancel me. I need a week off. I can't keep serving these looks. This is a lot for me. And before we drop into this episode, be sure to hit subscribe wherever you're listening to this podcast that is the best way to stay up to date on the latest episodes. We've got this in video format, so if you're just hearing my voice, be sure to also watch our fabulous outfits on video as well on Spotify, YouTube or the Apple Store. This is the best way to stay in the flow with future conversations and also allows the podcast to reach more people. So hit subscribe so I can keep vibing with you on all future episodes. Now let's get into this one. Welcome back to the Highest Self Podcast. My name is Sahara Rose and on this podcast I love to take spirituality, make it a lot more fun, grounded, sexy, relatable, real. Like actually have it be integrated into your life. I just got back from Trinidad Carnival yesterday, so I'm just like a whole motherfucking snack having a great time because one of my besties is here on the podcast and this queen and I, we have gone deep. Like we knew each other and then we kind of went through our, my divorce, her breakup around a similar time. We both like ended up being in Bali at the same time and it was just like the love story started and she like stayed with me for like a month. Pro that we like spent all the summer in Europe together. And you know those friends that you, you can be at your worst with each other and then your best and we're like talking about like the most traumatic things that ever happened to us and we're like laughing and I'm sure this conversation will be somewhere along those lines. And we have these really in depth conversations especially about relationship and healing and regulation of the nervous system. And she's someone who is such an expert in those things when it comes to breath work, when it comes to biohacking, when it comes to energy management. And she's learned so much about how to apply it into creating that like co regulation in your mind, body and spirit. Especially when it comes to relationship where a lot of those things can become really hyperactive. You know, there's so much unknown in this dating space when it comes to another person in relationship. And sometimes it's really easy for us to do our breath work and our practices. Then when it comes to another human being, it all goes out the window. So we're going to be talking about how to maintain that energetic alignment when you are presented with emotionally unavailable people or people ghosting you or attachment issues coming up, which are just inevitable when it comes to the world of love. So beyond being an incredible biohacker, beauty expert, all the things, she's also the founder of Lumina which is a branding agency. So she is just such an expert in all things bringing beauty and intelligence out into the world. And I'm so excited to have her here on the podcast. So welcome, Anna.

Thanks, babe. What a welcome.

Yes. So the first question I'd love to ask you is, what makes you your highest self?

What makes me my highest self, I would say, is showing up authentically and knowing that all the decisions I make in my day to day are getting me toward closer and closer towards my most aligned and highest version of myself.

Absolutely. And you are someone that lives at. Like, can you. Before we get into all the love stuff, can you just, like, tell us a little about your morning practice?

Yes.

I mean, this girl to the nines.

Yeah. So this is actually, I think, one of the most important things. And we'll get into this specifically later. When it comes to having clean relationships in your life, whether they be friendships, business, you know, people you manage or people you work with, as well as romantic partnerships, I think if you aren't showing up, like, energized and radiant and clear, you're not really being yourself. So that's why I've. I really make my energy my number one. And I also. The funny thing too is, babe, I hate structure because I think my business is so structured and, like, my work day is meetings and so my personal life, everything outside of that, I do not like to have structure around it. And I do love to have, like, a lot of fluidity in my mornings to do things that I know are going to regulate me and they're going to energize me. So for me, usually, it's funny because, like, you shared, we spent a lot of time together this past year, and I think we flow really well together in our morning space. So that usually, I feel like we usually do like, some dream processing. We get into our bodies, we move around a little bit, nourish ourselves, hydrate, have all the tonics, all the things, and then get ready to get out there and start the day.

Yeah, I think that that's so important because often, like, we're looking for a relationship to make us better. Right. And it's like a relationship often will bring out some of our worst, you know, and it's like we need to make ourselves better and show up at our fullest in relationship, you know, because I find that we're like, I used to hear people being like, once I'm pregnant, I'm going to start doing Pilates. It's like, it's going to be way harder to do the Pilates when you're pregnant. And it's just like, people are like, I can't wait to start to the farmers market, this and that when I'm in a relationship. And it's like, just start doing that now. Because when you're in a relationship, oftentimes it's easy to forget about your morning routine and get lost in the love bubble, you know, so it's like, if you can set those foundations and what a beautiful practice to bring together with your partner.

Yeah, absolutely. And I, I. What I've recognized is a lot of women and friends of mine, they tend to kind of chameleon themselves in a relationship, and they tend to bend and create a life with somebody without really knowing what feels good for them. So I think being single is such a nice opportunity to figure out, like, what energizes me, what lights me up, what do I want to do. And then, like, you can create space with that with somebody else once you actually know what your ideal is.

So I want to talk about the nervous system and how it gets activated in dating and relationships. So can you speak a little bit about, like, what is the nervous system and how to know if we're out of balance?

Yes, absolutely. So the. For me, a big part of the last three years of my life has been learning about the nervous system. And this is basically the way that your body operates in ways that you. There's the conscious and the subconscious control over your brain and your body. So you have your central nervous system, you have your sympathetic, you have your parasympathetic nervous systems. And basically it's a way that you can show up, like I mentioned, in the most aligned way without being frazzled. It's like your way of finding your center. So what I noticed is a few years back, and this, I was with two partners ago, two exes ago. I noticed towards the end of that I would get very easily agitated with him. And at the same time, I remember living in la, I would get easily agitated while I'd be driving. And then same with managing my team. I had a very short fuse and it didn't really feel like me. It didn't feel like my imprint of the type of person I wanted to be. But I just, I had a short fuse, I had a short tolerance. I was very reactive. So after that breakup, I took some time for introspection. So I was like, I'm the common denominator here with all these different little microcosms of relating. So how do I, you know, And I look at we all have our friends or people that we really respect. And for me, those are always people that are very patient. They're patient, they're slow, they're grounded. So for me I was like, how do I become more grounded? Because that is what I admire in other people. And that was when I first really dove into nervous system regulation. And for me, a big part of that was breath work. Doing somatic breathwork. The longer breath work journeys emotional freedom technique. EFT tapping has been really good for anxiety and just learning, learning a bunch of different. You know, I, I was doing EMDR for a little bit. I sought a somatic therapist. I was going to network hair, spinal, which you, you've gone to my doctor before. That to me was one of the most calming and expansive things I've ever done. And all these things together just helped me. It was, it's like a, it's like a bottom up approach to psychology to, to therapy, to like it. It was like, I think the missing link for me with a lot of things that cerebrally I knew, you know, I'd read the books, I've gone to therapy, I had all these concepts down. But for me, it wasn't until I was able to like get into my body that I was able to release and move through a lot of things that I knew I needed to move through.

It's essential because talk therapy alone, like, it's great to start to unravel those threads that sometimes only. And you're a Gemini and I love Gemini energy because I feel like I should be a Gemini. Like we just babble up and babble, but then we'll be like, okay, we're just going in circles right now, you know, and it's like to stop and to go deeper and to do the breath work and like in relationship especially, then we'll get into attachment. It's like a lot of our core childhood wounds, like abandonment and betrayal and feeling unimportant and all these things gets triggered. And it's our job to do that work. We can't get that perfect person that doesn't trigger our core wounds. It doesn't exist. And it's like wherever you go, there you are. Show up in the relationship, even if you're single. It'll show up in the traffic, it'll show up at your work, it will show up at any of those things. So let's talk about if you are open to sharing your relationship history, your background of your childhood, being born in Afghanistan, which, you know, a lot of people. Afghanistan. I'm Always going to say Afghanistan. I always say it. I'm like, be proud of where you are from.

I know.

So share with us a little bit about your background growing up in a war zone and. And how this kind of started showing up and different fears in relationship.

Yes, absolutely. So I. I was born in Afghanistan in 1987, so I'm 36, and we fled that country overnight because it was the middle of the Soviet invasion and a bomb went off on our street. So my mom had my older brother, who's a year and a half older than me, my dad, her. The four of us just. We fled overnight and we spent time in India and Iraq and then France before moving to LA in about 1990. And after that. It's interesting because I had a very happy childhood, a very blessed childhood. It was filled with love. I knew my parents really loved me. I knew my brother really loved me. My brother's still in my life. My parents are still happily married. So I never. Knock on wood. I never had this big t. Traumatic event. However, I moved around every single year from kindergarten up until middle school. Every year I changed schools, we moved houses, until my parents got stable and they got on their feet. And then also they had a very big life in Afghanistan, and then they had to start from scratch. So for me, I just witnessed a lot of chaos, I think, with bombs, leaving, leaving all of our stuff behind, you know, moving, consistently moving and consistently creating new relationships, creating new friendships. And my brother and I kind of coped with that in different ways. My way of coping with that was I turned into a chameleon, essentially, because, you know, you know this about me. I know how to. I know how to go into a room and, like, work it. I know how to work the crowd. I know how to. How I can read people really well. And in the past, I used to make myself a more exaggerated version of, like, the smart girl or the funny girl or this type of girl to fit into that really well. And that's kind of. That's a skill of mine. I don't live by that. I live in a way that's more authentic now. But when I was young, most of my 20s, too, I just. It was exhausting. So I think that was one of the pieces. And then for me, I just developed these really deep abandonment wounds because I had to. I made these really tight friendships growing up, and I would consistently have to say goodbye, leave, start fresh. So I didn't. I didn't really look into this until later on in life, you know, because, again, I Was like, I don't have traumatic childhood, Nothing bad happened to me. But I think as a kid, when that happens, that's very, it's. It's hard because that creates a lot of resistance and fear and skepticism around new relationships. Because you're like, how deep is this gonna go? And how do I not let myself open my heart to this friend or this person? Because I know it's gonna be taken away from me. So that's something that I recognized I had down the line is like this constant feeling of this is gonna be taken from me and like, really preparing myself for that.

Have you recently gone through a breakup or a divorce that rocked your world and deep down inside you know that this was meant to happen for you to become the version of yourself you never would have become without this? Well, I have gone through this transformation myself. And this is why I have created my ultimate heartbreak healing course. In this 33 day course, I guide you step by step into taking the fertile soil of your heartbreak, all of the sadness, anger and loneliness you may be experiencing right now, and how to alchemize it to create your most radiant, magnetic and aligned life. So whether you have gone through this heartbreak recently or maybe years ago, but there's still layers of it that you're still excavating. This course is for you. And trust me when I say you are going to become another person on the other side. Honestly, I'm so excited for you. I was definitely not this version of me before my heartbreak. And I can't wait to see who you become myself. So on my single journey of traveling the world the year after my divorce, I had this like, subconscious, like back of my mind thought of like, maybe I'm going to meet the guy in Portugal, maybe I'm going to meet him in London, maybe I'm going to meet him there and kind of being let down. Like, you know when you like walk into the room and you're like, is he here? And he's not? And then you're like. And I noticed myself doing that and I was like, you know what? Maybe this love story isn't about me meeting someone. And then I'm happily ever after with this new person. I'm out of the being single part of my life and in this better relationship, and now it's all worth it. But maybe this love story is really about me. So I started to tell this to myself in my head. Maybe this love story is really about me. Maybe this love story story is really about me. And I wrote this poem that I turned into the song Love Story, which is the last song on my new album, My Body's an Altar that really tells the story of what happened next after my divorce, of putting my things in storage, stepping into the unknown, facing my deepest shadows and my deepest fears, but knowing that I would rather be free in the abyss than caged in my conclusion. So this song is actually the most heartfelt to me on the album. And if you are going through a transition, whether it is a divorce or a breakup or a move or an identity shift, this song is for you. You're actually hearing it right now in the background. So be sure to check out my new album, My Body is an Altar. It is all about seeing yourself as a sacred site. It has this song music you and I want to dance to and while out to. To music you want to get sexy to and so much more. It's really the full spectrum of the goddess. And this music has streamed through me to be shared with the collective. And I'm so excited to see it make its way into your life. So you can head over to Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube, SoundCloud, stream the album Sahara Rose. My body's an altar. This song specifically is called Love Story. You can find all of those links in the show notes. And I'm super excited to see your stories and reels sharing your love story. Yeah. And that makes total sense because your attachment style is more on the avoidant, mind's more on the anxious. We talk about that all the time. And like, so for you, when you meet an amazing guy, you're like, oh. Like, no, this is someone I want to keep in my life. I'm going to have him stay as a friend.

Yeah.

I'm like, what? But that's probably you saying that now. I'm like, that makes sense. Because you're like, if I love someone, they may be gone.

Yes, 100%. And our mutual friend Ali, she called me out on the same thing two weeks ago because there is. And I'll get into. I'll get into this more in a little bit, too. But I had. I've gone through phases of being single where I'm one moment I'm just very optimistic and I'm hopeful and I'm surrendered. And I'm like, this is great. And the next moment I'm just like, there are no good guys out there. You know, it's just this constant, like, because just from what I see and what I hear. And then I remember I had that moment with Allie and she was like, anna, look at Your best guy friends, they're incredible. And I tend to, I have a lot of guy, I have a lot of girl, I have kind of more of a volume of friends because I live in a few different places and then I have a good amount of guy friends and my guy friends I love so much. And I think that my last relationship was, I think kind of scarred me from this because he was, it was a relationship, it was like we were in this situationship for 2 1/2 years. And he started off as my best friend. And prior to that I had a really rough breakup. Like a very, very, very rough breakup. And that was a three year relationship. And as soon as I got out of that relationship, I went on a masculine cleanse for one year. And I was working with Stefano Sidnos. He was my coach at the time, loved him and he called me out on it. He was like, Anna, you're creating these relationship patterns that mimic your relationship to your dad and your brother. These ones of deep love. And they've never been men that are like, they've loved me deeply, but they just haven't committed. They haven't had this level of depth and availability that I sought. And he told me, he was like, if you want to break this chain, I would suggest going on a masculine cleanse for a little bit and really re establishing your relationship with men. And he mentioned he was like, creating consistent male friendships is a good way of doing this. And so at that same time, I remembered I hired a new cfo. It was a guy I hired a new full time salesperson. It was a guy I hired this tech hire at my team, a male too. And then again, I think it was because I had an older brother. I've always, like, men have been easy for me. So I really went deep into my guy friendships. This was around maybe six months into that breakup. Out of it, I met my most recent ex and him and I became best friends because I told him that early on I was like, I'm not dating. I have another six months where I'm going to be celibate. I'm not dating anybody, I'm not on apps, none of that. And then him and I developed a very deep friendship. And looking back, I feel like he was always pursuing me during that time because he saw me as the unattainable. His avoidance saw me as the unattainable one that was unavailable for him, which was made me the apple of his eye. If I had I been available, that could have been a different story. So I think that it was just. He pursued me for like a year. And. And I was always like, I think my gut told me that this wasn't the person for me. Just because I knew him as a friend and I knew some of his tendencies with women and his tendencies. And you're friends with them too. You know, he's to going great, great human. And I think my gut was telling me no. However I was. And this was, I think, has been a really tricky part of the journey. And you're. You're like this too, because you're very intelligent and you're very tuned in. And then sometimes it gets confusing for me. I was very confused because my gut was saying no to him as more than a friend for these reasons. But then I was questioning that. I thought that was my pattern. I thought this guy was being so available for me, so fucking loving to me. He would give me the world. He moved mountains for me. He did literally, like everything for me. And he was there for me, gave me his time, gave me his energy. So I was like, oh, maybe that's not my gut telling me it's a bad idea. Maybe that's my pattern of being like, look, this guy really loves you. And I'm turned off by that, which was why I jumped in. So it's like, huh, this feels like a good edge because this feels like it's super available for me, so I'm gonna jump into it. And as soon as I did, the tide shifted. As soon as I opened up my availability, then I think he was just.

Like, oh, so it's like, then how do we know who to trust? Because I feel like this happens a lot. Again, I'm a woman, so I more hear the woman's perspective. So I more hear that with men that they pursue. And then once you say yes and the chase is gone, they go to the next apple of their eye.

Absolutely. And this is the man that falls in his unconscious patterning and isn't really in his frame. And I've seen men mature into this. I've seen men find this early on in their 20s too. It really depends. And one of my favorite books of all time is called A Road Less Traveled by M. Scott Peck. And it's the chapter two or three is all about love. It's like a quarter of the book. And it talks about his definition of love. He distinguishes true love versus cathaxis, which is similar to limerence, and how people often confuse that. And I think men especially, they love the chase. I love the chase sometimes too. You know, I think this is something we have in common. But it is, it's like, it's. It's the chemicals, it's the. I think it's the. Especially as women. You actually shared this stat with me, how women. Oftentimes we rank men at 100 when we meet them, and then men rank us up here. And then over time.

When we meet a man, we put him at 100. Like our max crush is before we've met him. We're like, he is everything I'm looking for. He's perfect. This is it. Plan the wedding. And then as we get to know him, it's going down and down and down. Men start with us at zero. They're like, ah, just some girl. And they start to get to know us. They're like, oh, she's actually cool. Oh, I actually like her. And then we start going up and going up as they're going down. And then it's like, then we lose interest because we see that they're not the fantasy. And then they gain interest because we realize we're more than just a pretty face.

Yes. Yes, 100%. So, yeah. M. Scott Peck, the way that he discusses cathexis in particular is. It's like, it's half of it. The way he kind of picks it apart is really interesting because there's like the physiological side of it and like the chemical release and all that. And then there's the like spiritual side of it. It's the same thing where like he defines it at a two to four year period of that honeymoon phase of the. How, like limerence is what, like six months usually? Or is it in that same window?

I don't think there is a. It depends really. I think I. I mean, from my understanding of limerence, it's more of like this like obsessive crush on someone that is a little different than the honeymoon phase.

Okay.

Yeah. Like, limerence is like. I mean, you've seen like just saying you have a crush on someone and you're just like, oh my God, it's a sign we're meant to be. Da, da, da. But you, like, don't really know them. Yeah, that's often like a crush, you know, A crush is a lack of information and then the honey literally get to know them. Crush will be gone. Yeah.

So will the fun.

And then like the honeymoon phase, is that like oxytocin, like bonding? Because it's like your bodies think you're procreating, you know, or maybe you are procreating. So they just want to be together. All the time. And that tends to, to be six months to two years.

Okay, great. So. So then that like aligns with like the, the cathexis definition. But and it's interesting because I've been able to see and witness true love in my friendships. Like true unconditional love through my friendships. And I, I've, I've had those moments with you. I. My ex, I think I loved him so deeply because I developed that in the friendship. I'm not sure if I've had that in a relationship. I think I've only experienced the cathexis because it's always that. I've had three long term relationships that have lasted two and a half to four years.

Did have all of your friendships started off with you being friends or that was.

No, that was the only one.

That was the only one you felt like you really loved.

Yeah.

So maybe for you, you need to be friends with someone first and establish that because I think when you're friends with someone, you're your real self. You're not putting on the facade. You can like really just like be with each other. But once you start like kind of dating, it's like there's a little bit of games going on. You're like seducing each other. There's, there's that and then you're, you're blinded. And it's like highs and lows. Yeah. That I've never started a friendship being friends.

Interesting.

Yeah, it started with them really pursuing me and we went straight into relationship. And something I actually desire and something that you've taught me is to become more friends with men. Because after my divorce, I was recognizing myself, creating these men stories. Men are this, men are that like lumping all men. And I knew that that was not true. Like I have a brother I'm very close to as well. And my dad was, is such an amazing guy. Just spent the weekend with him in Miami. I haven't told you this yet. We were like going out to dinner going. And I'm just like, I'm like, how do I have this relationship with my dad? And it was just like such a beautiful reminder to me. But I think as women sometimes we go for the hot guy or you know, whatever.

You and I, we have that, we have that thing, we have the crushes, we have the guys. Because I think this is a reflection. I can't speak for you. It's a reflection of me. I have, I previously had, have had this self worth wound where I wanted to pick the guy, the athlete, the Guy that's well recognized. He's up here because I know the moment he chooses me out of everyone else and I'm important always.

I've always gone for alpha men.

Yes.

You know, and, but you know what.

You'Re like also, I have to say, you're a top tier bitch. So like, you know, you know what I mean? You're up here. So I want to just go for.

Someone who's like there, you know, like, you don't need to be, you know, but it's always been like my, like, I want someone who inspires me. That's a big thing for me. So if I'm doing all these things out in the world and you're not, that I'm not inspired by you. But, you know, but it's something you taught me though is like being more friends with guys. And now I could say I have so many guy friends who I like, love and I like, tell my guy problems to and they bring different perspectives with. And I just like love that so much. And I remember you telling me about the man cleansing thing. Like last year. I was like, hell no, girl, I'm not kidding.

Hell no. Yeah.

And then, you know, I unintentionally went on the celibacy journey, which, you know, unplanned. Celibacy, unplanned. And it's been over a year and I'm so grateful for it now because it's made me change my relationship with the masculine of knowing that like, I will only be intimate with someone if there's a heart connection with them. Heart and yoni connection. And, and that's rare, you know, to find someone who respects you, who honors you, who's gonna show up for you, who's, you know, a level of commitment doesn't mean you're gonna get married or something. But it's like, I think our culture has so normalized casual sex situationships, you know, one night stands, and it often doesn't benefit the woman.

I was about to say fuck boy culture does not benefit.

It's almost like feminism has become fuckboy culture. No, literally, they're like, yeah, sleep with everyone one time. Stand for your rights. And we're just like. A lot of women are forcing themselves to. But it's like, literally our bodies are producing oxytocin. We have a different relationship with sex that having sex with someone and them not not texting us back is freaking traumatic. And I'm like, I just don't want my body to even know what that.

And also, we've had a Conversation about this. A lot of these boys, they're used to girls and they're like sub 25, you know?

Yeah.

These girls that are like 20 to 25, where I'm sure some of you are great lovers, ladies. But usually at that body, you don't get it. You don't quite get it. Right. So it's very performative sex. Yes. And I can. I can say that from experience. I, like, I haven't evolved into the wholeness of me until the. Since like the last five years. Right. And for me, if I knew, because I. When I was first single this year, I was like, I want a whole face. I thought. I really sat with it and I had my. I had my roster available and I was just like, I know exactly what this is going to be like.

Your heart's too open for a whole face.

It was like, my heart's open and then all of a. So, like, unless your body is. You understand tantra, you understand the female anatomy in all the ways.

Like, let's be real. Most guys who understand tantra are not attractive.

Exactly. So, like, this is like, Ista.

Yeah. For those of you not to hate.

Yeah.

Not touch your boy.

Yeah. No shade, guys.

But I call everyone listening to this.

Podcast I signed up for, it's Ista, which is a sexual shamanism retreat, and I didn't know much about it. A friend of mine had done it and I was like, fuck it, let's go.

Yeah.

Because this was like. I was like, post breakup, I was like, I wanna. I wanna try out new experiences. And then I remember telling Sahara about it, and I was like, do you wanna do it with me? And Sahara was just like, I'm not ready for that yet. She was like, and I don't know if I'm there yet. And I was like, what do you mean you're not there?

You do.

You do all the things and you're. And Sahar was just like, you know, you have to finger a grown man's butthole. And I was like, God damn it. Because I paid in full. I was done. I was signed up. I paid for this. I was like, I don't want to do this. And then I spent weeks going. Going on Insta's Instagram and, like, zooming into their group pics. And I was like, there's not one butthole that I would fondle in this entire group.

No.

So I still haven't gone. I still paid in full.

Please refund this girl. She doesn't want to figure a butthole. Give her some Slack.

And I remember when we were in Europe before that, when I was telling. When we were kind of like walking through it, and you're like, anna, you don't need to do this thing with this big group of people and maybe men that you aren't attracted to, find a man that you're interested in and you can have these experiences with them. So I remember thinking that, but I was like, that's not like the classic fuckboy. They're not.

No, no.

Yeah.

Ista's not a fuckboy. But it's like there are so many ways to learn about sex. And like, we have a lot of friends that they learn about it through, like, play parties and group sex and kink things. And, like, that's one pathway. It's just for me, maybe it's me being Persian. I need to, like, love someone. Yeah.

Respect them.

Yeah. Like, I need to have that heart connection. I need to, like. I don't. I just can't kiss someone that I don't feel emotions towards. I can't just, like, turn that on. And some people can. And it's just like a different way of approaching things.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that was. That's always been really hard for me because, like, with my exes and my last couple of breakups, like, the ability that they had to move on physically so quickly, I think for me was.

Men tend to a lot more easily move on quickly, but it's often their way of avoiding, you know, of just like, I'm in pain, find someone new. Find someone new. And they say, like, there's that meme that's like, girls and guys, one month after the breakup and the girl's like, crying and the guy's like, woohoo. Freedom. And then it's like one year later or six months later, and the girl is finally in her freedom and the guy's finally feeling those unprocessed emotions.

Yeah.

So.

Yeah.

And do you know a fun little thing I was thinking about with, like, fuckboys? Oftentimes when you talk to them, they're like, you remind me of my first ever girlfriend, my high school girlfriend, my college girlfriend. But, you know, she really broke my heart. She cheated on me and I never loved again. And I realized I was talking to our friend Ellie about this and she's like, every guy has this story of, like, this one first girl that, like, was 16 and, like, broke your heart. And after that, you could never trust any woman again. And this is why you are the way that you are, because Stephanie and 16 year old broke your heart. And I'm like, it's so freaking true, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

I'm like, welcome to our lives. We've experienced since. We're still trying, you know? But it's funny. It's like that. I think a lot of men, like, their love is so pure that when it's, like, broken once, it's like they will never open their hearts again to anyone. And that's, you know, it's almost like this is how Batman become Batman. This is how the fuckboy became the Fuckboy. It's like the fuckboy is just wounded. He's hurt. He has a guard up, but, like, he wants to love. He's a lover boy deep down inside, too. He's just afraid of the inevitable heartbreak that comes with everything.

Yeah, absolutely. And it is. How many times do you think you've had your heart broken in your life?

Two times. My two significant relationships. Like, those are like big heartbreaks.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I think there's, like, anyone you kind of meet that you have a connection with and it doesn't work. There's a mini heartbreak.

There's so many heartbreak, especially with us, since we, like, create.

Oh, God, yeah. Of like, you meet someone and then kind of like you imagine what it could have been like with them, but often they live somewhere else or something. And there is that, like, you want to keep talking, but there's almost no point to because you're not living in the same place. And there's that, like, letting go, but you don't really want. And it's like, damn, like, but I would rather have those than to not feel at all.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah. I remember between relationships, like, right after I went out of my masculine cleanse, like, a couple years ago, I, like, very briefly dated this guy in New York. I think I. We were talking for like, two months, and he flew me out and I spent a week with him. And it was like the most. It was the least developed relationship I've ever had. But that was one of the hardest ones for me when that didn't work out strictly because it was long distance. But that was one that I was like, oh, my God, this could be my husband.

Because you're listening to this podcast, I'm going to make a quick assumption about you. Your friends come to you for advice. Whenever you're at a party, someone corners you at the side of the stack table and starts telling you all of their childhood dramas. And you actually love diving deep into spiritual topics. And you have a really Good way of communicating with people. So the best way to actually create a career doing this is through coaching. But I know a lot of people, they're like, I don't even know where to start. I don't even know what type of coach I would be. So I've created a quick easy quiz to discover your unique coaching style. So there are three categories. The intuitive, transformational or empathetic coach. So the intuitive one really works with your intuition. You're able to receive downloads, you just have insights about people. The transformational one has more of that fire energy. You love to keep it real and help people go through the deepest phoenix, rising from the ashes moments in their lives. And the empathetic coach really loves to listen. Hold space, space. They're very grounded, nurturing. So if you're curious which type you are, you can try my free quiz@quiz highest self institute.com Again that's quiz. Highest self institute.com which is my school that certifies spiritual life coaches and you can find that link in the show notes. I'm super excited to see what type of coach you are because I'mma hire you one day. So trust your intuition, trust your inner wisdom, trust your inner guidance. They say situationships are harder to get over than long term relationships. Because you're mourning the fantasy.

Yes.

Because you never really saw how it could have gone sour in a long term relationship. It's like you try all the different pathways and it doesn't work. So you kind of just accept.

Yeah.

And there's like just this like shedding and you kind of elevate. Whereas the situationships you're just kind of like wondering and they're so vague. And the lack of communication, you're just making up stories. Like if you're ghosted it's, I mean you've seen, it's hard because it's like you don't really know, you're assuming why, but you don't and you're not really at the level of a relationship to like talk on the phone and be honest. And I think that's one of the hardest things about dating in this day and age that they say 25% of like dating ends up in ghosting. That's insane. One in four interactions are going to Jesus.

Yeah. And I honestly think that's what dating app culture has, has done for, for men and for women. It's like a volume game. It's such a volume game and it's taken away like the human interaction for it. It's almost like commoditized like, communications, relationships, things like that.

So what do you do now when you're feeling like this person's not responding to me, or I feel they're pulling away, or I feel something's different and you're like, nervous system is getting dysregulated? Like, how do you bring yourself back into regulation?

So it's so funny because I think this is one of those things that, for me, has worked like clockwork. Anytime I find myself in that state, as soon as I recognize it and I'm like, what is that? Like, what is this? Why am I. Why am I acting like this? As soon as I. I just. I really tap into, like, my surrender mode. And I think for me, the rest of my, like, every other facet of my life has shown me just how. How taken care of I am and how things work out. And I say this with, like, every cell in my body, that if I were writing the screenplay of my movie, I would have this space right now that I would have this point. Remember before we went to Europe, we're like, let's fucking go. And also, this is gonna be our last single summer. When else? When else can we just have this, like, unplanned few months, go do what we want? That's what the last year of my life's been. I've been able to, like, like, work on my health, work on my connections, work on my relationships. All these things that I knew that when I fall in love, I go all in. So I knew I just wanted to focus on me. And it was not. I, like, I just really want to clearly differentiate this. It wasn't like, I need to work on me because I'm broken and I can't be in a relationship. I was like, no, I choose, like. I choose all this because I know I'm going to have the relationship in my dreams. I fucking know that. I'm not in any rush. There is no timeline associated with it. And then. So I notice whenever I feel that, like, anxiety about something not working out, then I'm just like, wait, no, I'm so taken care of. I got this. What's met. Like, there's a saying that I really root down to. It's always what's meant for me, won't pass me by. And I know that for a fact. And I let everything else in my life be evidence to that. Everything else, the way that things work out for me. So then I find solace in that. And it's always that fucking moment where I find solace that the Energy of the boy always comes back. Because I think that's really palpable. It's super, super palpable. And even if you're not doing anything to act on it or messaging this person, I think they can feel the energy. As soon as that shifts, then I think there's an opening.

Totally. And, like, so many times I look back on, thank God I didn't get into a relationship last, you know, last June.

Oh, my gosh.

I would have had, you know, after our medicine ceremony, like, so much came up for me. I'm like, thank God I didn't get into one before that, because I would have been cutting age that the medicine cleared a lot. But then after that, I would have been in. In this certain timeline. And then in August, I had a certain.

Go to your music and your teaching. Yeah.

But even just like, the limiting beliefs I still had around relationships, relationships that weren't yet cleared, I would have. You know, for example, one of mine that I talk about on the podcast is this fear of, like, my work is too much for a guy, you know, and that he'll listen to my podcast and be like, oh, my God, she's like, talking about relationships and sexuality and this and that. And, like, I can't handle her.

Yeah.

You know, and so I would find myself, like, if I matched with someone, I, like, want to, like, hide my Instagram stories from them. And then it's like, why would I, the person who I want to be, like the most significant potential person in my life, be hiding my. But it was that. That thing, that old story of I'm too much, you know, And I'm like, thank God I didn't get into a relationship with whoever I was interested in then, because I would have played out that timeline and it would have, like, held me back. And then the further I go, the further I go, the more express I become. And now, like, if I go on a dating app, my year and a half, I was like, what do I even tell people on these apps? You know, they're like, hi, how are you? This. So now I just write, do you believe in free will or destiny or combination of both? I was like, is that your one liner? That's my one liner.

That's so you.

I'm like, if you can't fuck with me on that level, like, this is not going to go anywhere, because these are the kind of conversations that I have with friends. Whereas old me would have been like, that's so weird. What's he going to think about me? And it's like, he'd figure you out anyways, you know, for sure. And I'm like, and what? However long it takes for me into relationship is the level of work that God needed me to sit with, to be at the calibration, to hold the type of relationship that I say that I want, which is true sacred union. But it's like, sacred union is not overnight. You're not going to jump from one sacred union to the next. Then it's no longer a sacred union.

The way I like to think about it is think of who you were when you got into a relationship with your last partner. And I look at who I was when I got into a relationship with my last partner and who I am now, who you are now. And I think that like attracts like. And I know I wanted way better than my last relationship. I want a man that's more committed, more in integrity, knows his purpose and his path, and is that, like, safe and stable person. But who am I to crave that and seek that? How much of that can I contain within myself? So I'm not outsourcing it or reaching out to somebody else about it? And then also I think as women, you know how we've spoke, we've, like, shared our list before and everything. And I remember I've. Now, I. My last partner and I broke up like, early 2023, end of 2022, let's say. And then we had a little rebound, like, you know, we came into each other's lives again, I would say around, like, spring of that year. And now I've been fully single for probably, like nine months. For the first half of that, I wasn't really. I was so heartbroken that I wasn't dating. I just did not want to have any interest in it. I didn't want to escape everything I was processing. And at that time, that was just. I was just grieving. I was in such deep pain, and I didn't want to bring somebody else into that. I didn't want to numb it. And I also know that that pain was such a portal. It was like the deepest and biggest, like, growth trajectory I've ever been on. For the things that we were just talking about, like my nervous system, how can I find safety within myself? How can I find safety within my body? On the other side of it, too, my hormones and my gut, all these things that were draining energy for me, that weren't allowing me to perform up here on the other side of that, really going a level deeper and seeing some cohesive threads with my Last two relationships and knowing that I'm the common denominator and that I sourced these relationships. I was attracted to these relationships. And as much as they brought me pain, I created that. And so how can I thank myself for bringing those situations into my life to rub up on my deepest and ickiest wounds so I can see that they exist? And then on my own, really work through, like, cradling myself through that, to healing those parts within myself. And I know there's so much healing that can happen in a relationship, and I totally see the validity of that. But I think the path that I wanted to choose was, one, I wanted to have fun. Two, I wanted to work through and really do that deep introspection to work through that. I think, like, a big part of it for me was the plant medicine ceremony that we did together. Self love was a big part of that. I think our relationship with men and the masculine was a big part of that. And it really showed me that, like, attraction is an inside game. And how I think on paper, I always knew, like, I'm fucking dope, I'm great, I am funny, I do well with my career. But there was this dissonance between knowing those things. And this actually came up where our mutual friend Aaron Doughty, we were at dinner and he was asking about my business. And he was like, what was your biggest goal when you started? And I was like, you know, I walked through some goals. And I was like. And I think initially, like, you know, I really wanted to hit seven figures. Like, I made all my passwords for my login. It's like, seven figures. I was like, I really wanted to get there. And it was so dumb because that doesn't mean anything, but. And he was like, when did you get there? And I was like, a few years ago. And he was like, what did you do to celebrate? And I was like, I don't think I ever really noticed that. I, like, got to that thing that I wanted. I never took that moment to be like, wow, I did this thing all by myself. I created this on my own. And I never got a chance to celebrate it. So what I recognized was that I haven't really celebrated or, like, viscerally felt these things, like my gifts. And I don't mean to use example money, because that's not the most important piece of it, but I think all of my unique meanness. And when I sat with Ayahuasca for the first time in September, that to me was like that missing link of seeing all of my radiance and all it just to. I was just like, brought on this story of just like where I was born. Like, you're born in a war zone. Look where you are now. Look at the rooms that you're in now. Look at the inherent gifts that you have. Look, you know, none of that's a coincidence. And I was really able to see, not through accomplishments, but like, I felt the essence of my heart. I felt how big my heart was. I felt my effervescence. And being like, that is a gift. So that for me was just like I was able to tap into that little missing puzzle piece. When it got out of that, I was like, I fuck with me.

And it's so beautiful when we, like, remember that because, like, dating can really fuck with your self worth, you know, especially dating apps and all this online stuff, because people really lack that humanity of showing up and treating each other like humans. It's like nowhere would we be in a conversation with someone like, I'm like, hey, I'm good. How are you? And you just like disappear, you know, and then we have all these things. Oh, it's because I. This. It's because of that. It's because he saw my Instagram. It's because of this picture. It's because I said that. And it's like. And it can really, like, demolish our. Our self worth so deeply. So it's like to remember like, who the we are and how far we've come and like, you know, not just like the hard work, but like the like, courage it's taken to like, look within ourselves and to take ourselves out of that muck and. And like, sometimes, like, I noticed that I used to like, really like, pray for sacred union and partnership. And I'm like, but I am the one ultimately that I will always be with for the rest of my life.

Yes.

You know, and it's like so often we're like waiting for that love from someone else. And it's like this love story is really about me. And I remember at the end of the medicine ceremony when you were like, sarah, I want you to listen the song and you played that Lauryn Hill song and you said, sing the song as if it's for yourself. And it's like, I love you, baby. And if it's quite all right. And I remember I was like singing it, but like, I was still kind of like, I'm singing so badly. Like they're. I'm probably annoying them. But it was just like, you know, it was like that both, like, we don't want to take up space, but it's like, in our soul. Like, even in that moment, I was like, noticing that duality within me, you know, and it was just like. Like, ultimately, all those words that we wish someone else would speak to us are the words that we're meant to speak to ourselves.

Yeah.

You know, because the reality of life is relationships are likely to come and go.

Yep.

You know, like, Rainier, who was on this podcast, he said, like, for all relationships will either end in divorce or death, which is the truth. Like, it's either a divorce, a rupture, or you watch each other die. And that's the best case scenario. And it's like, to recognize that and then you're not like, holding on and you're not so afraid of loving too. Like, sometimes I catch myself of like, I'm like, oh, well, it's never going to work because of this thing in their job or it's never going to work for that. It's ever because. But it's like, but if I keep waiting for this, like, imaginary person, it's going to be like, everything that could last forever. It's like I literally will be waiting for the rest of my life. And, like, sometimes you just, like, got to trust the intelligence of love, that it's guiding you for a reason. And there's something that is meant to be co created between the two of you for however long it's meant to. And then you'll know when it's meant to go separate ways.

Absolutely. I think there's so much heaviness and being like, this is the person I'm gonna spend the rest of my life.

Yeah. I hope this is my last.

Yeah. And I think that something that I. I was really calling in the last year is just, like, having beautiful experiences with men and men that I intentionally knew were not my husband. But, like, there's the funny one and there's the hot one and there's the one that, like, has all the fun things to do. And just like, because going back to, like, the list thing, I've kind of changed my list of, like, what I want in a man. And I've transformed that over to. Rather than it being a list about a guy's characteristics, it's a list of feelings that I get around this person.

So what are some of those feelings?

Joy. My. The first one that comes to mind is joy. And I think joy at, like, this is why we're friends. But, like, sense of humor and just being able to just have this. And then there's like the safety piece. Just because I've had betrayal in the past, I think that's the most important thing. Like somebody that, you know, full on. I don't want to say they're committed to you or like what we're saying, like, you know, we're going to be. We're in a real world together or anything like that. But in the moment, I choose everything about you in the moment, I know, like just that assurance. And I think that that to me is so important. And I think oftentimes men who don't, who are not able to do that is because they don't have that assurance within themselves. They don't fully choose themselves. They're. They're unavailable for themselves. And going back to meaning, I think we tend, as women, we tend to put meaning behind things. This guy couldn't commit to me, that's a reflection of who I am when in reality that just who. That's something that they're holding onto and something that they're not working through themselves.

And I think a lot of men lack the confidence of like, what can I even provide into her life? Especially with beautiful and successful women, I think that we actually have the hardest time when it comes to dating. And I know actually a lot of like, psychologists have talked about that because men look at you and they're like, I literally don't know what I could provide into your life that you're not providing for yourself. So they don't even try. And then we're like, where are the men? Exactly. But so I actually find that sometimes it's easier for women who maybe don't have as much going on because men are like, okay, well, I know I can provide. It's easy, yeah, finances if they make more money or travel or this or that. But I think that this is like kind of the dichotomy that we're stuck in right now that women have become so successful so, you know, ambitious and they travel and we do all of the things that the men are just like, where do I fit in? And then I think as women too, we don't really know where. We all have to get really clear of like, what do we want a relationship for? And I really, you know, when I got, I was 24 years old when I met my ex husband. I just had a really traditional role of marriage in my head of like, okay, a husband and it's a wife and he's more of the provider and probably maybe I'll wall work, but it's more him and then into the Relationship. I started like working, I started writing books and I started out earning him. And then like all of a sudden now I'm like, I love having my businesses and I love traveling, I love making these big decisions. But now I'm just like, now it's a different relationship than both of us thought we were going into. And then that made him feel insecure and it was just like, things just got confusing, right? And now I really sit with like, what do I want a relationship for? And I think a lot of like, like the social media voices in relationship today for women or like that sprinkle, sprinkle, like just get a man who can provide for you because you know, this, this concept that men are trash, you know, and at least get him to this. And like, if I honestly dive into my truth, I, I make my own money. I actually don't need that. Like, I want true companionship. Like of course your friends are your companions. But I think it's like a different type of companionship that you have in like romantic partnership of just like that intimacy, the sexual sexuality, like the romance. And these are things to me that I value a lot more than how much money you make. And for other people, it's not, you know, for other people they're like, I want dinners, I want gifts. That's the most important thing. I think it's really important to be honest from the get go because you can find all those things. You can find the guy that wants to wine and dye you in this. He may be old and ugly, but he, you, you can find that there. And you may find someone who, you know, you guys are really creative together and you like make art together. Maybe he doesn't have a huge giant seven figure business, but, but it's like, I think part of the problem is we also want it all, you know, and it's not. Nothing's. No one's going to be ever 100%, even 90% of what you're looking for, especially when it's a moving target. But we just have to be like, what are my non negotiables? Like, one thing I've realized is a non negotiable for me, which seems frivolous. This is someone who I can dance with, you know, because it's such a core part of who I am and how I communicate. And I've never had that in any of my, like my main relationships before. And I'm like, it's something that, even though it's like, you know, of course, trust, safety, but I'm like But someone I can dance with is like, that's the type of relationship that I want.

Yeah.

Do you have any like non negotiables?

Honestly, it's sense of humor. For me. It just, to me, I can't even put it in words, but there's this feeling that I get in the last year I've had this feeling with maybe two guys. One or two guys.

And it just that the banter, the.

Banter, it's like somebody that like fucks with me. Like we could kind of go back and forth. Yeah, it's that essence. And also for me, sense of humor directly correlates with intelligence too. So a guy that's like intelligent presence. Yes. Yeah. And then also I'm very vain. So like hot. That's my other non negotiable. But it, I think going back to the financial side of things, I, you know, there's the, the paradigm of the masculine, the feminine and the masculine being the provider. And there's so many other, so many other ways that men can provide that's not financially. And I think I'm lucky enough to be at the place in my life where I never need a man to provide for me financially or get a nice thing from a man. They're all things I can provide for myself. But I think other things that are really important is like, I love, I love connection. So I love being with a partner that has like a really dope group of friends, has a really great family and those are. And can provide experiences. Yes, I think. And that's difficult too because I'm also very well resourced. I can provide really great experiences for myself, have really great people in my life too. Like, I'm already so full and complete. So I don't really, I don't necessarily want to bring somebody into that life that can't meet me or provide more for me in certain ways. That makes me happy.

Totally. Well, you know, cultivating a group of friends is an intentional practice that takes years. You know, like you and I both were very social. We're social butterflies, you know, but, but we check in with each other, we check in with people, we go to things, we maintain friendships that like I met this guy and he was like, yeah, like, there's no cool people in LA at all. I'm like, oh, really? Like, I have the most amazing friends here. And he's like, oh, like, I don't know anyone. Like everyone's whack in the city, da da, da. And it was, to me, it was just such a reflection of him. You know, if you've lived here for like 10 years and everyone's whack, like.

That'S a you problem.

Exactly. Of like, maybe you're not going out there to aligned places and making friends. Maybe you're going to just all the like, like Hollywood parties and then complaining about the Hollywood people that. Yeah. And then when it comes to dating, it's like, I don't want to be someone's like, sole source of friendship and entertainment and things like that. Like, I want to be with someone who's made that initiative into their own lives. But I think a huge thing I learned as well in my previous relationship is I want to like their friends a hundred. Because with my ex, it was just a very different vibration of people, you know, not that they were bad people, just not people that I would hang out with, vice versa, you know, so there was always this push and pull of we're with my friends and you're with your friends. And one of us always felt like we were losing in that. And it was really hard for us to find, like, even couples that we both got along with because we were so different. And I'm like, I never want to feel that again. Because it's like, well, truth be told, if I can't be friends with your friends, would I have ever been friends with you? Probably not.

Exactly.

And you wouldn't have been friends. He was always like, you lame spiritual people. You always want to say your intentions and like that. That was eye roll for him. But it's like that's who I am at my core.

Back to that expression piece.

Yeah.

You know, and.

But that's also, I think, what created the story in me that like, me being spiritual, me being this. He didn't like it. So I thought men don't like it.

Yeah. And men don't like you at your fullest expression.

Exactly. But when I was 24 and I started the relationship, I would just go to the his friend's things and just put up with it. Because you just entered a new relationship and it's this. And then as you get older and you start to kind of like, like stand up for yourself a little bit more and you're just like, no, I don't. I don't want to, you know, spend a weekend with all of you guys on a bunch of drugs at edc. Like, this is not appealing to me at all. But then it's like, you've changed. You used to be down to come along, now you don't, you know, and it's Like, I just would never want to be in that situation again because to. I'm the same way. Community is so important. Like, how amazing to have like friends that you can like, grow old with together and like, have fun with. And like, I'm such a community living person. I'm like, we all can live on land together. Like, that's what I'm. I would love to have.

And I think that's something that we both have within our families as well. My parents, I. I know they're going to be set when they get old because they have such a good group of friends. And I've seen the importance of that. And I've seen like my mom, like my. They share a friend group. My dad goes and does things with his friends. My mom does things with her friends. It's really like symbiotic and healthy. So I think having.

They're also from Iran and Afghanistan. Like in those cultures, friend. It's like groups of friends are such a huge thing. But like in American western culture, people are very isolated.

Yeah.

It's really interesting. Like, you know, especially a lot of these guys. Men today are much lonelier than women. Like, you're working from home, you're just playing your video games in your free time. You know, you don't even go on dates. You watch porn. And it's like they don't. I think men have a harder time with the vulnerability that it takes with friends. So. Yeah, but I think again, that's not who we would want to be with. Someone has these things, so.

Yeah.

So what, like, piece of advice would you have for someone right now that maybe is like, new on their single journey? They're feeling all the feels, they're feeling overwhelmed, they're feeling sad. Like, how can they start to process these, like, denser feelings without. They feel like I could just cry forever. Like, where can one start this journey of unraveling?

I would get comfortable with the notion of crying forever.

Yes.

When I, I went through a breakup a couple years ago was during the pandemic. And this was when you had to wear masks everywhere. And I remember.

So you were single during COVID Yeah.

We broke up right when. Right when everything happened.

Damn. I always have so much compassion for.

People who are single during COVID Dude, it was rough. Yeah, it was rough. And I remember I would just be at Whole Foods with my mask on. Just like ugly crying blowing into my mask. I cried incessantly.

Yeah, but because you couldn't date, there was like, no hope for sure. Yeah.

Not at all. Yeah. And then, and this was when I was very, very consistent with doing breathwork journeys or taking the 40, 50 minute somatic breath work classes. I was going once a week. And it was such a deep release of rage, of crying, of feeling these feelings that I think as women we're so used to suppressing. And I don't know about you, but I always, I cried a lot when I was a kid. My parents always be like, stop crying. Like, what are you doing? Like, get it together. So now as an adult, I cry often, but I think really feeling your feelings to the extent that you can, and then also being able to. Being able to understand the source of that, because that was a big part of it for me. It felt like my sadness felt so much deeper than the last relationship that I was in. It came down to so much of my inner child, work, work, going back to my upbringing, going back to things that were older than even my life, than my current life. So for me, I was able to unveil a lot of that and be able to dance with it in a nice way. And I think the other half of it is I infused a lot of connection into my life during that time too, because I tend to isolate. So I knew I was like, this is going to be. Typically, if I'm going through a breakup, I'm going to be isolating. I'm going to be in that sad, murky pond. So how do I open up to my friendships a little more? Tell them that I'm moving through things? And I just had a lot of friends show up for me. I had a lot of nights on the couch with friends. It was really nice, too, because when we were in Bali together, you and I were both fresh out of the breakup and we're able to process things together so beautifully. And having a friend that you could do that to, whether or not they're single or in a relationship. And it's also really nice because I know you've had this with Rosie. Having those friends that are in those really beautiful relationships that you look to me, that was never hard for me. People would always ask me because I have a lot of friends that are in great relationships and I'd stay the weekend with them. They're like, it's not hard to me around. I'd be like, no, I love it. Because they're like expanders for me. I'm able to see a really healthy and loving relationship and it gives me.

Hope because sometimes two single people, we spiral. Yes. We're like, everything is so hard. And this and that it's like we get each other in a way that no one else will. Because people who are in long term relationships, they don't know what it's like to be Single today in 2024, it's a different beast. They're like, oh, yeah. Back when I was in high school, I remember it was or like this. I'm like, yo, you have no idea. So it's like we get each other, but then it's like we both don't have the evidence of what's on the other side. So we're like, I don't know. So, yeah, I think that that's so important to have friends who are in different seasons of relationships and, and what's beautiful too is like those friends that like, watch you in all your seasons.

Yeah.

And it's like friends who saw you when you were single and then dating and then engaged and then married and then maybe divorced and then you go through the cycle again. And it's like, how beautiful. And it's like. And it often is the friendships, you know, not always, but can, can outlast. And that's why you do need to have that base level of friendship with your partner. And I think what you said around, like, get okay with the concept of potentially crying forever is like, you know, I remember I was like, I don't know, for you. For me, it was the mornings that were so hard. It was like I would wake up and be like, wow, this is my reality same.

You know, I'd be like, is this a nightmare?

And I'd be like, nope, yeah, this is it. Like, wow, I have to live with this. This is my new life story. Wow. You know, like, damn. Took a plot twist. And it would be so hard. And I would just like wake up in the morning and just like cry and cry and cry. And then like I remember one day like a months in, I just like didn't feel the need to cry anymore. And then like, there'd be like a few days I wouldn't cry. And then like this. And it's like eventually the tears stop coming, you know, but you have, you can't suppress them. You have to just cry. And then like you. It's these waves, right? And they get further away, but they get deeper. And even with the relationships, like how you said, like you did deeper childhood processing in a later relationship, I feel like the relationship things that show up for us as we. We dive deeper into our own consciousness, they're hitting on deeper wounds. Ancestral things, childhood things, likely those other relationships Were we just didn't have the knowledge of those, the connections there. But I also feel it's like, as we clear, it's like almost like cleaning a dirty pool, right? You clean the surface layer by getting a little bit deeper, a little bit deeper, a little bit deeper. And then. So then you get really deep that it's like now it's like, I don't cry about that relationship at all, but, like, I can see, like, depths to it that I could have never seen before. And I think for the rest of my life, you'll always see. You'll always, from a distance, see deeper and deeper things. But it's also shown me, like, we can overcome what we think is impossible. Like, if someone told me in my marriage that, like, oh, this marriage is gonna end, there's gonna be a betrayal, I'd be like, I could never handle that. I would have thought, like, for sure, just. Just kill me. I would have thought that. And it's like the fact that I can just like, literally move on with my life. Create a better life.

Create a better life, A better life.

Have a glow up, become a musical artist, travel around the world, have a podcast studio, live in your dream house.

Like, everything about it.

And I love myself 10 million times more. This version of me. Then it's like, why are we so afraid of the heartbreak when it just makes us better?

Yeah.

We're so afraid of this thing that's always gonna uplevel you. So if you know she's gonna uplevel you, then it's like, like, come at me, love. Let's see what's on the other side of this, you know?

Yeah, I. I think both of my really hard breakups, both of them, my business, like, quadrupled my. I've had more fun and joy and pleasure and experiences. I've gotten, like, major glow ups both of the times, too. Like, physically, emotionally, spiritually, all of it. And there's the juxtaposition of all that with this deep, deep, like, petrifying, terrible pain. Yeah. But looking back, it's. I don't know, like, I. I'm. I'm out of it now. And even looking back to the saddest, darkest memories, I'm just like. I look at it with, like, I would live, live that all over again.

I'll do it 10 million times.

Yes.

To become this version of me. But I wonder now, I'm like, knowing what I know now, like, do I need to get a SAP next time? You know?

What's your definition of knowing what you.

Know now, like, I was just like, I don't know where I'm gonna live. I'm never gonna trust again. I have ptsd. Like, I was like, my. I'm never gonna wear hot pink colors anymore. I thought, I will never dance again. I'm never gonna dance again. Like, that's what I thought. My life. I was. My life is over. Because I had never gone through something as traumatic as that. But then it's like, no. Everything just became more saturated on the other side. So it's like, had I known what I know now that I would end up moving back to la, surrounded by people that I love in my own pink Moroccan palace, that I would have these amazing hair extensions and, you know, look so fierce and. And like that. To be honest, like, had I met him now?

Oh, my God, absolutely not.

Because, you know, so I'm like, why was I so sad? Yeah, but it's like. But it's like, you just gotta go through it. But I'm like, I hope now, knowing what I know now, it's like, do. But it's like, you can't help it. You just have to be in it when you're in it.

Yeah, absolutely.

You know, it's like, okay, if you were to go back to yourself, like, right after the breakup and say, like, one sentence, that version of you, what would you say?

It's a great question. I mean, I need to think about this one. Honestly. I would say it's. It's similar to your experience. Like, you will get through this and you'll get through this brighter and stronger and better, and there's going to be somebody brighter and stronger and better on that other side to meet you.

Would you believe it, though?

Probably not.

Yeah.

In the moment, no.

Yeah, I probably wouldn't have either.

Yeah.

But it's like. So then sometimes I remind myself, I'm like, yeah, if I could go back to that moment, there's, like, this moment I could think about. I was just like, on my knees crying in that apartment, just, like, looking at myself in the mirror when your face is just so puffy. And I was just like, I can't believe, like, I am living my nightmare right now. You know, literally overnight, I find out information, my marriage is finished, and I'm like, what would I tell that version of me? And I was just like, that it's going to work out in such a better way and you're going to face some uncertainties and. And to be honest, like, things are going to get worse before they get better, but they will you will fall so much more in love with you on the other side. And even though I wouldn't believe it, it's, like, just to know that. But then sometimes I remind myself that, like, there's a future version of me saying that right now. Like, you know, so much we've talked about what our partners would be like this, that. And, like, there's often this voice in my head that's like, that's never gonna happen. Like, it's. You're asking for too much in this. And I'm like, every relationship is always, like. Like, better than you thought it would be, too. You know, it's like every relationship I've had is, like, significantly better and better. And it always. It always does. And it's like, just trusting that. And I think sometimes, too, we're like. We want to get out of the experience so badly. Like, being single feels like, you know, I shared with you on my medicine thing. I was like, I feel. I feel like I approach single, like, a problem to be solved of, like, I need to solve this. I'm single. You got to find a partner and, like, fix it.

Where's the most roi?

And. And what I recognize now is, like, we are gonna look back on these days and be like, remember when you just, like, stayed with me for, like, a month? Like, remember when we, like, just, like, went to Portugal? We were just, like, eating everything and, like, you know, like. And then you're gonna look back on it and be like, I wish I enjoyed.

Yes.

Moments more.

So that's. That's what I try to anchor myself to when it gets hard. Yeah, for sure. Because look how everything else worked out. Look how this home worked out. Look how whatever happened to you in Europe, like, the amount of pain. Yeah.

I've talked about the break in here. I wouldn't be here in this highest health podcast studio had my place not been violently broken into in London. Yeah. You know, and it's like, that's, like, the most traumatic thing that leads. I wouldn't have ever left because I was just like, okay, I guess I'm gonna just, like, stay here in London until. I don't know. Then I was gonna go to Bali. Then I was gonna go here and there, and it was like, I needed to have that level of a rude awakening for me to be like, okay, ground yourself, girl. Like, create your sanctuary, which is, like, what you talked about at the beginning of, like, create that safety within yourself. Because I have the story of, like, oh, well, me going back to LA is, like, my former life. I can't go back to my former life. I need my life to be even better. I need this after story to be. I live in Portugal. I live in Bali. I live in London. I live here. I live there. And it was like. But. And I was, like, waiting for this, like, place that I would, like, I don't know, meet someone and just make all new friends and start a new life, you know? And it was. And it was just like, you know, I needed to have that journey of, like, stepping away. I think after breakup, it is important to step away from, like, where you were hanging out, like, previous friends, like, any kind of, like, trigger. Like, I just needed, like, I was like, I don't even want to see the ocean. It just reminds me of them, like, all of it. And I just wanted to know who I was outside of, like, the spiritual community of our friends and this and that. But then I'd say, like, you step away from it, and then that's how I really emerged into my artist. But then you come back into it and you take the best parts.

Yep.

You don't need to throw out who you really were. Exactly. Separate yourself so then you can come back and choose what you really want to keep.

And I also see that applying to the characteristics and the partners that we value. So for me, I. I'm, like, very good at getting what I want once I am actually clear about it. And that's why after this last relationship, I didn't even. It was like. Like six months before I wrote a list of the values and the characteristics and all these things that I was seeking, because I know how quickly that can come for me when I actually get clear on it.

We should draw a picture after this.

Of who we're calling it. Yes, let's do it. And I think for me, I look at the last three partners I've had, and they are literally polar opposites. The thing that really, like, perturbed me about this partner, I sought the opposite of this one, but almost to my detriment, where it was such a pendulum swing in the opposite direction. And for me, it's like, I think it's so important to just. It's like data collection. It's like, ooh, this. Or like, this flavor profile. I like these flavors, but these ones we keep behind, and you just keep iterating on this person that works really well with you, and you guys have this dynamic together, and I think you can't quite get that unless you're able to experiment and see what parts of you become alive with different people. And I think now we both have a really good idea about it. And this is actually. I honestly think I. Because I love you so much and I know you, that it's going to be so easy for me when, like, the next guy you're dating or the guy you fall in love with, for me to be like, that's fucking him. I'll know right away. I know exactly what your. I know exactly what the level that you're in. And I know you describe him. He's going to be. No, no, we'll draw them later. But. But I. I definitely want him to be as bright as you are. The brightness and the radiance that you have. I want that in male form for you and that the things that come along with that is like the dance that you're talking about, that's a part of it, the sense of humor, somebody you can have long conversations with, that's not competing for that. It's not a spotlight to compete with. It's somebody to, like, dance through life with for you. And that's so clear for me to see. And I don't want you intentionally finding a guy that's down here because there's only room for one of you guys to be right.

It's interesting because that's the advice a lot of people give me of, like, don't go for another star, like, person. Go for someone who's really just, like, grounded and routine and doesn't want the spotlight. Because there can kind of only be like, a kite and a rock in a relationship.

Yeah. I don't think spotlight or star. Somebody with the brightness.

Exactly.

The personality. Yeah. I think that's. That's gonna be a major one for you. Because I want to be discerning about that for you.

Okay.

Because we can. I think that's something we owe to our friends. Because you get in your own.

Because we get love drunk.

For sure. You're in the cloud. You're in. Like, you get lost in the sauce yourself. So it's really nice to have those reflections from your girlfriend and take everything as counsel, because ultimately, like, you're the sovereign being. You're the one that knows your own life. But if you have people around you that you fully trust and know you and see you, they will hold you to those standards.

It's so true. Because, you know, often those of us who have really bright personalities get attracted to darker people, you know, that we try to heal and bring up and, you know, we. We make it our life's work to, like, make Them happy, you know, and then it's like all of our joy goes to them. And then when they're not feeling joyful, then it's like your mood goes down, and then it's like, almost like you can only go as far as they do. And then this, like, it's the sad, like, trap that you're kind of stuck in. I recognize that in myself a lot of empathic women who end up in. In these kind of different types of relationships. So. Yeah. And I've had experiences with different people that are, like, very bright and sunny, but then sometimes they are not the most reliable or, you know, in their masculine and that kind of thing. So it's to find the good balance of both. Someone who's like, I don't. To be honest, I don't want to be with someone who, like, has their own podcast and writes books and this and that.

I just think so unattractive.

It would be too much of that.

Yeah. You know what is such a green flag?

Yeah.

A guy with a private Instagram account.

Yes.

Sub 1000 followers, but has a blue check mark. Mark. Because they created like, they own, like, a fund.

Oh, wow.

You know they have a LinkedIn.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I want a guy. No, no Instagram. He doesn't even know what it is.

Oh, my gosh.

You just kind of the wilderness. But no, but for real, like, I just think, like, it would just be too much of like, how did your book sales ago? Oh, how about your funnel? Like, and. Yeah, like, but again, at the end of the day, I think we come up with all these lists in our heads, and then it's like, God decides.

Yeah, exactly.

And that's because if you meet someone, you have that connection, you're gonna be like, hey, well, according to my list, you can't have for sure.

And that's why I think this phase that we're both in right now that I think is such a blessing. It's. We get to experiment because there's a part of me that's like, I would love to create with a partner. I'd love to throw a retreat with a guy. I'd love to build a course out with a guy.

Oh, I definitely want for you.

Yeah. But then like you said, what if that. That's, you know, what if I want a separation and I don't want.

I think it also really depends on the individual.

Yeah.

You know, it's like, there may be one guy, and you and him are a power couple that you host breath work retreats all over the world. And you another guy, this just the exact same work, just compatibility or work dynamic, you know. And, you know, I think we all like, there is this sense of creativity that happens. I think it is a major pillar in a, in a healthy relationship, having a dharma karmic relationship where it comes together for a shared project or mission or something greater than you. I do think that that's the highest form of a relationship. But I think that that's really rare to find, to find complementary, like skill sets and backgrounds and experiences. But I do think the couples that have that, that I've seen have that they really make it work the long run.

100%.

Something so much bigger than just them.

Yeah. And I think you and I both have friends that them and their partners, they're like, they own a business together or in their day and days. I don't know if I'd want that, but I would want the projects that you do together.

Yeah. I wouldn't want them to like, work in my business or.

For sure. Totally. And I had this one where I was dating this guy for a while and I was just like, he would be so good for my business. And he'd be like. And he mentioned it once too. And he was like, if this is a thing, I can help you with xyz. And I was like, oh, my God, that feels so good. And I thought about it. I was like, ew. I don't want that.

I don't want a lot of female entrepreneur friends that their husbands are like their CEOs. For sure.

Yeah.

And it works for them. And they're like, it turns me on.

Yeah. And I think for me to have a man that I really trust to run the structure of my business would love that. But maybe I just hire a male CEO to do that.

See, that's the thing. I was like, yeah, I want to find someone that we, like, make music together. And I'm like, maybe I just work with music producers. That would, that would be ideal.

You know, so. But now I'm like, but maybe we.

We make a documentary together. Maybe we start a nonprofit together. Like just some sort of project.

Totally. And that's actually something that I've been doing with my guy friends. I've been doing the projects with them. I know you have as well. So it's. That's another great way to. To feel out that dynamic non relationally to see how, like. Yeah, how. Because I think the way that we work with women, the way that we relate with women is so different than the way that we relate to the masculine.

This is a good idea. Instead of dating someone to start a side project with them and see how you guys fly.

Yes.

And then if it works, you know you're gonna work out. I love this. I'm like, hey, do you want to start a magazine together?

Really good idea. Yes.

Since I have a huge amount of people to choose from, let me throw this into the mix. And I think I'm stuck with you forever. They'll love that. Yes. Well, thank you so much for sharing all your wisdom. I love having, like, this is, like, a real conversation that we would just, like, have and bring. Bringing the audience along on the journey. Just because I know you know all these things. It's. It's. It can be hard. It can be a lot. And sometimes having these conversations with your friends is just really helpful to just, like, decompress and just, like, we're all here on this journey, like, now, having experienced this, I'm like, I just feel so much more empathy with, like, all. All women, period. Because every woman has gone through periods of being single. I'm like, just. These feelings of the loneliness, the feelings of the yearning, these feelings of the wondering if he ever exists, the heartbreak, it's so palpable and it's so universal that it, like, makes you just, like, connect to other humans so much.

Yes, the yearning.

Yes.

That piece. So, like, how can you have that yearning? But it's the yearning for life.

Yeah.

It's the yearning for self. It's the yearning for. For friendships.

Yes. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast. And where can listeners connect with you?

I think best place is Instagram. Best Anna. Doing things. I do the things. Yes, that's me.

Well, thank you so much for tuning in. If you love this episode, please share it on your Instagram stories. This is a really good one to get the conversation going with your friends, to start a conversation. Hey, what'd you guys think? You know, like, we love having conversations like this, and I know so many of you want to have these kind of conversations with your friends, so maybe you both listen to the podcast, have a little discussion about it later on. That's a really good way to deepen your friendship so you can really hold each other through these big transformations in life. So thank you so much for tuning in, and I'll see you in the next episode. Trust your intuition. Trust your inner wisdom. Trust your inner guidance. Close your eyes and listen. So trust your intuition. Trust your inner wisdom. Trust your inner guidance.