550: How To Create + Maintain A True Best Friendship with Rosie Acosta

A lot of friendship is keeping in touch. You know, it's like unless you're next door neighbors and you see each other all the time, you might have a great time with someone in person. But you can only have a friendship if you put the time and consistency in being a part. I've met so many amazing people, especially here in la, who I never see again because it's like I might send them a text or invite them something they don't get back to me. Or it's just like it takes two. And it's like relationships are not just built in the time you spend together, but it's in the instance, the effort and the consistency. Welcome back to the High Self podcast. My name is Sahara Rose, and on this podcast I love to take spirituality matters of the heart, the soul, the spirit, and make them fun, grounded, relatable. And if you're a girly like me, you send hour long voice notes to your bestie every day. And if you don't have a bestie and you're listening to this because you want to have a bestie, well, this is the way you're going to have deeper friendships with people in your life by exploring things that are beyond. You know, I feel like so many of us, we have these friendships that like, honestly, like what I feel friendships have become these days are like, complain and coffee. Like, hey, do you want to have coffee? Okay, sure, let's do it next month. Okay? Like, here's a Google Cal, okay? You go on the coffee date and it's like, I got 30 minutes. Let me complain about everything in my life. And you go, yeah, that sucks. Oh my God. Oh my God. And then the next person has 30 minutes, they complain, and then you both are like, next month. And you just leave feeling worse. However, there is a new paradigm of friendships that are possible for us. Friendships that see us, celebrate us, where we can talk about, like, really interesting things that are on our minds and explore these conversations deeper. And yes, you can, you know, talk about celebrities and things if you want sometimes. But like, the basis of the friendship is dharmic. It's, it's supportive of your highest selves. It's supportive of your soul's purpose. And when I say dharmic, I'm referring to the word dharma, which means your soul's purpose, the big reason why you're here. And these are friendships that are con, conducive to your path, that make you better in every way. And friendships like this, I think are partially found, but a lot built. You know, I Think there are certain people who you have a different vibe, different, like, dating chemistry with, but it's really easy to just be like, oh, wow, that person's really cool. And then you guys never text and never hang again. And it's another level of initiation to go deeper with people. If we want deeper friendships, we must have the invitation to go deeper. So on the podcast today is my personal bestie, Rosie Acosta, who will share our friendship story. But was someone I met through. We did each other's podcasts in 2017, seven years ago, and I just thought it was a normal podcast interaction. I thought she was cool, but, like, never would I have imagined the friendship that would have come. And we'll talk about how our friendship deepened and give you a lot of takeaways so you can have, like, even if you have people who are your friends to go deeper with them, and if you don't have that, how to start fostering these types of friendships, where to go for these types of friendships, and then how to navigate, you know, different life obstacles and challenges and, you know, breakups and divorces and all the things that happen in friendships that I feel sometimes, again, if we don't have the tools, push the friendships away, but are actually really great opportunities to deepen. And before we drop into this episode, be sure to hit subscribe wherever you're listening to this podcast. That is the best way to stay up to date on the latest episodes. We've got this in video format, so if you're just hearing my voice, be sure to also watch our fabulous outfits on video as well on Spotify, YouTube or the Apple Store. This is the best way to stay in the flow with future conversations and also allows the podcast to reach more people. So hit subscribe so I can keep vibing with you on all future episodes. Now let's get into this one. So without further ado, let's welcome Rocita.

Yeah, I still love when we did that podcast. I don't remember even which one we did, but you started talking in Spanish and then you're like, yolo podaser, yo.

Puerto claro casi soy to herbana. Herbana Mexicana. No pues alta.

You know what I was thinking about? I was like, in any other relationship, you can have an idea of what you're wanting, right? When you're looking for something, typically there's some sort of void, right? I remember when I was going deeper into, like, my spiritual practice and I didn't have any friends that were into spiritual things. And I know you've had the same experience, but you have this circle of friends. For me, it was like the people I grew up with, which a lot of them I am still friends with now. It's just different. But during that time, I remember really feeling, you know, the people in my life that had been there for a long time weren't serving what my needs were. I felt very alone and completely unfulfilled. It's like what you were saying in the intro. You know, we would hang out and everybody's complaining or everybody's talking about how, you know, they're not thriving or they're unhappy in the relationship or they don't have any money or. And it just would always feel like I happened to be that person that people always, you know, clunk. Like, they plugged into, right? They would plug into me, and then I would leave feeling completely depleted. And I always had this thought, during that time, what would it be like to have a friend like me or that could meet me? Not like me, because I don't ever want to be with people just like me. I want to be with somebody who's bringing something to the table. Right. You and I are very opposite, and it's still so crazy to see how our relationship just works so well, you know, but makes me believe in love.

I'm like. My type is this. That I'm like, you know, we were talking about something podcast. If I were to write my friendship type, I would not write you. But this is the thing.

So what I think is, is the reason why I bring it up is because in any other relationship, you can make a list, right? I love making lists. You love making lists. And we can say, okay, I want my friend to have X, Y, and Z. You know, and at the time, I would think, I just want a friend who's. Who. Who's deep. Yeah, that was it. That was my prerequisite. It's somebody that's deep and actually wants to have meaningful conversations. And I think even though you and I, when we first met, after we did each other's podcast, I felt that I'm like, oh, she's deep. Like, we just dropped in.

That's so fun. We always, from the beginning, were, like, laughing and had natural banter and, like, natural flow. So I would say, in friendship, would you say that you were, like, looking for certain core values of a friend or it was more just, like, subconscious?

I think it was definitely. I don't know. Because if you say it's subconscious, it's subconscious still with Val, with some sort of value set like, did you set.

An intention before meeting me? Like, I want a deep friend.

No, I didn't want any friends. I didn't want any new friends. You know? And I think that part of that was because I have had bad experiences in the past where I would. I hate to sound like this, but it's like you invest time and energy into a relationship, and then when it doesn't work, you kind of get a little bit, I don't know, pessimistic. You might become a little bit jaded and feel like, oh, these people are just wanting to be my friend because they want something or they want me to help them in some way, or they're wanting to take from me because I am such a giver, and they see that. And so I have to be really discerning with who I let in. Right. Which is really interesting because at the same time, I am very open to people. But I think it's to a point, I mean, even with us, you know, it took a long time for us to get this close, and we've gone through a lot of different trying experiences. And I think with each trying experience or with each conflict that we've been through, it shows us who we are and we've grown along the way. And I think that that's what a relationship should be like. I don't know that, especially even for us, that I was looking for something specific. It just happened to work, you know?

Yeah. So kind of our friendship story, and I think it would be helpful for the episode we start with finding a friend and then, like, how to deepen the friendship and, like, kind of bring it along even on our journey.

I also like the idea of saying what not to do, because I think the first thing that comes up to me, the sort of aversion that I have when I've met people, is like, oh, my God, I want to be your friend.

Oh, God, yeah. Yeah. So also talk about what not to do.

Yeah. So, okay, so you start.

So it started with. In 2017, I had just launched my podcast. I think your podcast was like a year old, I want to say then. And we were both featured on Yoga Journal's top seven podcasts to listen to. And I decided to reach out to all the people on that list and ask them if they want to do a podcast swap. Because I'm a little Capricorn, and I'm like, why not do a little swappy swap? And maybe two or three out of those people got back to me. You were one of them, and you were like, yeah, why don't you come to my place? We can do it here. And I was like, okay, cool. So I went to your place, and your boyfriend Tori was so kind. He brought us, like, little tea and snacks, and it was just like, felt very family vibes. Your sister was living there at the time and just, like, really instantly felt like fam. And we did the podcast. I don't really remember the conversation. It was a good one.

I do.

Did you have any. We'll ask you later. Do you have any red flags around me? I did, but then I remember after we were in your kitchen and you were saying that you want to make a course, and I'm someone who naturally loves to also give. I give in different ways than you do, but I love to give on, like, especially, like, giving business advice. Comes very, very easy to me. So I was like, oh, if you want to do a course, you should do a funnel. And then you could do a quiz, and then you could have opt in, then this. And, oh, you should use kajabi. And this is how you can set up the kajabi and this. And if you want, I can even. I have an assistant. Like, you are my assistant. And, like, you know, I just, like, start with you, like, all the things. And I remember you were like, even kind of, like, laughing, like, this girl is just, like, so, like, full of it, you know, like, not full of shit, but just, like, so full of, like. I was just like, like, I can help you, you know?

Yeah.

And I wasn't doing it really to be your friend either.

No, I didn't know. That wasn't the sense.

Yeah, it was just like.

That's the thing. It was so genuine. And I think that we recognize that genuine authenticity exchange where I felt so taken aback by how generous you were being. You were just breaking it down. You're like, and do this. And you're gonna log into this.

I didn't think I was ever gonna see you again. I just wanted to leave you with that tidbit.

This is your takeaway. Yeah, I mean, I remember the conversation.

I was like, she has a great story. She should put her voice out there.

You're like this. You still do that today.

If someone has a good turnaround story, I gotta support.

She loves this. She loves a good. A good coming out of adversity.

This is my seva, you know, do this. And I never thought I would see you again.

I didn't necessarily think that I wouldn't see you again. I did really like you. I thought you were the Red flag. Yeah, the red flag. There wasn't any red flags, but I think it was. You were just, and still are, like, such a go getter. And I really loved that about your story. And on my podcast, if people go back and listen to that first episode we did together on my podcast, on the radically loved podcast, you talk about how you met Deepak Chopra and, like, that story and sort of how you and I don't remember if this made it onto the podcast or not, but you talk about how difficult it was to write the Idiot's Guide to Ayurveda and how it was very specific. I just remember your tenacity and your sort of just like, you're moving forward, you see something, you're gonna get it. And I really like that. Obviously, it's very inspiring. And then when you started to tell me about the course and how you broke it down, I was like, who is this person? And like, this is so crazy, because most people in this space, especially at that time. Right. I mean, this was already like, eight, I don't know how many years ago.

Yeah, 20. 17.

Yeah, 2017. So people weren't really openly sharing how they were doing things. You just see somebody from one day to the next. All of a sudden they're successful and they're, you know, creating content or they have a course. And. And.

And it was the year my, like, first E course came out, too.

Yeah.

I was even an expert at it, but I was like, but it was what I've learned. Yeah. Yeah. But you.

And you shared that, and I thought that that was so genuine of you and I. And I did not, at any point feel like you were doing it for any other reason other than you just wanted to share. And I think that's where I felt the instant connection, because I didn't feel like, oh, she can help me. She's going to help me. Like, I'm going to be her friend.

Because, well, we're both naturally givers.

Yeah.

And I think that that's a big thing for friendship. If you're a giver, you need to be friends with another giver. If there's a giver and a taker in a friendship, it will not work. And again, we can all take in different ways. Like, again, you're a Cancer and I'm a Capricorn, which are the opposite sides of the zodiac. So you give a lot of your listening, your empathy. That is something you have abundance of. For me, it's like my ideas, like business, like, oh, you have this problem and you want to move forward. Like I can help you with that. So in a way it's like the thing that you want more of in your life comes really easy to, you know. And the thing that I want more of in my life comes easy to you. So maybe people find the opposite of.

Yeah, but this is so. But my question is because you have so many different friends that fulfill different roles. So I'm thinking, you know, for people that are listening and are saying like, well, how do I find that? How do I find. Should I find the opposite? Should I find the same? Because I've also had a really great experience with people that are just like me.

Totally. Totally. Right when I am feeling overwhelmed, like life is extremely full and I don't even know what to focus my energy on next. Instead of going crazy, I take a moment and I do breath work. It relaxes the nervous system. So from a somatic body based level you feel more grounded, calm and able to see the big picture, which naturally allows you to know what to focus your energy on next. So the app I use is called Open. They have breathwork journeys anywhere from five to 30 minutes long, from energizing ones for the morning, restorative ones for the evening, and even ones to help you fall asleep. The teachers are incredible, the music is super dope, and not only does the app have breath work, but it also has meditations, yoga and Pilates. So if you want to get started on the exact breathwork routine I do every single day, you can get 30 days free of open by visiting withopen.com Sahara again, that's 30 days free by visiting withopen.com Sahara and you can find that link in the show notes. Where are my certified Lover girls at? So if you just finished a book like A Court of Thorn and Roses and you're craving another fantasy world to devour, then Dipsy has got you. You get to dive into spicy enemies, enemies turned lovers, or embark on an epic romance between immortal Fae and sworn foes. They have fantasy romance stories perfect for your morning walk, late night or a long bath. New content is released every single week, so in between listening to your favorite stories again and again, you can always find something new to explore. For listeners of the show, Dipsea is offering an extended 30 day free trial when you go to dipseastories.com Sahara that's 30 days of full access for free when you go to D I P s e a stories.com Sahara and you can find that link in the show notes. Trust your intuition. Trust your inner wisdom. Trust your inner Guidance. And I'm definitely, like, we talk about this. You keep your circle really tight and small. You're like a ride or die friendship. Like your friends, you've most. I'm your newest friend. You are. Which says a lot. It's been seven years and I'm your newest friend. So many people are like, I really want to get to know Rosie. I'm like, I'm sorry, there's nothing I can do. Deepak Chopra maybe, but Rosie, no, like, that's the level. Because, I mean, you've learned that about yourself. You know, I have a. I have. We've shared this before. I have like 10 people who would consider me their number one, you know, and you're my number one.

That's right. You know, let's make sure we have that.

I have a really high capacity for friendship.

Yeah.

I have a really high capacity for keeping in touch with what's going on, people's lives, keeping up to date with people. Like, it's like a superpower of mine. I'm just a natural.

But have you always been like that?

I have. Ever since you were little kid. I was the one hosting the party, bringing people together. Like, I was always a leader. That's like a big part of me. And even like, my dad was like, I remember whenever you had girls over, they were always like following you in a line. Like, I would be like, now we're going to do karaoke. Now we're going to paint this. Now that. And like everyone in the group, what do you feel? Everyone go around like, that's just like, I was definitely like a council, like a chief in my past life. Like, I'm just really good at groups.

Yeah.

You know, and I come alive hosting groups.

But you. And you also understand group dynamics.

I understand group dynamics deeply. And I'm, I'm the person if you go out to dinner, I'm like, hey, let's all go around the circle and share like our intention or a word that we're feeling. Whereas I feel like a lot of times people have like dinners, group dinners, and then it's like you just sit next to the person, you talk to them the whole night, and then you didn't really talk to anyone else. And people feel left out. And I'm really good at not doing that. So we're different in the way that I have other best friends and you have other best friends too. And they bring out, like, you know, I have one friend that we love to dance together, another friend that it's like, we love to talk More about beauty stuff, like, another friend, our podcasts, and it's different ones. But I would say the reason why our friendship is so strong is, like, I share depths of myself that I wouldn't share with those. And also, like, it's a relationship that, like, I literally wouldn't have time to have another relationship that I invested as much into. So. But we'll go back into, like, how. How it went to these depths. But I would say going into it, when I met you, the reason why our friendship deepened was I was going on this panchakarma, this ayurvedic detox retreat, and they said I could invite three people. And so I was thinking, who are the people? I just want to get to know better, you know? And I just remember I was like, I really liked that rosy girl. Like, I think I saw you once at, like, this girl's book launch between then and I liked you then, you know? But I think we all have this thing, especially in, like, big cities of, like, they're probably busy, you know? Like, they're probably busy. They're probably doing other things.

Discredit ourselves by saying or. Or take away any opportunity by making assumptions.

Exactly. That's why, like, a lot of people, I. They tell me, they're like, I don't even reach out because I just see you're busy. I'm like, you could totally still reach out, you know? So anyways, because I had the opportunity to bring three people on, I thought of you, and I invited you and two other people on. And so we spent, like, a week together doing this, like, ayurvedic panchakarma, which is, like, intense, you know, and we really got to know each other there and bond, and it actually created a group of the four of us. And the four of us actually became very close for a period of time. And then we went on another panchakarma. And then, you know, life happened. And I feel groups of four are hard to maintain because everyone's going through different seasons and different chapters. And then there were just two standing, you know, and then there was two.

But don't you remember, too? It's like, I had never. Well, that's not true. I had been in groups of friends before, but I think that was my first experience of having a group of women that were all open to being deep.

Yes. There was no drama.

There was no drama. It was just, you know, we all met each other. Right? And I think that that sort of. Yeah, life happens, you know, and things shifted. And I remember you, and I Had really only had the experience of being in a group. Like, we didn't have an experience of just it being us for a while. Yeah.

Because when you're in a group of friends, it almost feels rude to the group to have a side conversation because your conversations are kind of supposed to happen in like the group text.

Right.

And so there was like kind of that dynamic of like you never want other people to feel left out.

Right.

And so it wasn't until there were kind of like, you know, weavings away with the other people that it was like you and I. And then that made us get so much deeper because you don't bring.

Do you remember we tried to. We tried to bring another person in. We kept trying to replace. We don't want to say that, but. But don't you remember we. Oh, yeah, we were. It's the truth.

Yeah, we tried. Okay, so one. One fell away. She was in alignment, and we were like, damn, we need to like keep up the group of four. So we tried to bring in one of my friends and it just wasn't the same flow.

It's just not the same.

Not the same flow. But here's the thing, and here's. Okay, here's my first takeaway. I want for you guys. If you've met someone that you like their vibe, invite them to something. Invite them to something that maybe they wouldn't have thought of, they wouldn't have access to, and something that you would have uninterrupted time. So not just like going for a coffee or even like going to dinner, but like, can you invite them to a day retreat? Can you invite them to a road trip to a beach? You know, I was going to say a sound bath, but that you can't really talk.

Yeah.

You know, something where you guys, like, there's a common a day or a weekend away where you can really talk. Because I feel like we're all so busy that the reason why complaint and coffee happens is because you only have an hour or two hours of your time. So it's just like, let me get. You know, and we do this too. It's like a lot of times our voice notes are us complaining, you know, and then once we get the complaints out, well, we start. We try to start with gratitude.

Yeah. But we always end it with a good.

We end that. But then it's like. But as women, I think it's important that we just want to share, like, here's this thing that's happening. Here's this thing. But then when you have More time, then you can go deeper of, like, what are your thoughts on love? What are your thoughts on purpose? Like, what are your. You know, and then I had the situation happen, and then the stories come out, and you, like, really get to know each other in a way. Like, bring back friends, sleepovers, you know, like, slumber party. Exactly. Because it's like, finally, when you're, like, in pajamas on the couch about a thing to do that, like, your true selves come. And I feel so many of us again, we feel like, oh, my God, that would be weird. I barely know this person. Again, I did not know Rosie. You know, we podcasted, we hung out once at someone's book launch. That's it. And I invited you to a retreat with me, you know, and you said yes. And because it was like, for you, you were probably like, this is a cool experience, and why not? And I think most people want to have friendships, but we think we're gonna be, like, the one who's, like, pushing it.

Yeah.

And if they don't, they'll just be like, oh, sorry, I can't. And, like, then that's fine. And then it's like, you're not left wondering. But I just see a lot of people, they're like, why do I not have any good girlfriends? And it's like, well, have you tried, like, have you put yourself out there? Have you invited. Have you created, like, all of my friends that are, like, good friends? I've always been the one to invite them to something.

Yeah.

And I feel so many of us were waiting to be invited. And I know you might say, well, I'm a projector in human design. So am I. And I create the types of situations I want to be in. If I want to dress in 2000s music and do karaoke, I'm going to host that at my house. If I want to, you know, go ice skating for Christmas, I'm going to do that, and then I'm going to invite friends. So I would say for me, the way I've deepened most of my friendship is actually through invitations to do things.

Like, you're the initiator.

I'm the initiator. And we do something that is, like, a unique experience. And that unique experience is like, what you know. And some friendships are like, the Cadence residence is slower. Yeah.

What do you think your biggest resistance is when trying to build a new relationship with somebody?

A lot of people to me now just want to ask me a lot of questions, you know, life and business coaching questions. And so if I can Feel that's the dynamic. That's a. I'm going to have a resistance there of, like, I don't want my friends to be my clients. Like, of course there's always naturally going to be. We help each other. But if it just feels like, and how did you do this? How did you do that? Like, that doesn't fly with me. And also another thing I noticed is, like, friends that they're always repeating the same problems again and again and again, and it's not changing. And then, like, you spend all this energy and, like, explaining it and giving you really good analogy and this, and they're like, yeah, but then I just feel unappreciated, and it's like, I might really. So then I notice that then I'm like, okay, here's the thing that's maybe different about me than you is I. I'll just change where I put them in my mind. I don't cut them off. Like, some people are like, oh, if I can't go really deep with the friend, I don't want the friend. Whereas I'm like, okay, I tried them on my deeper level and they can't. So they'll be my we go out dancing friend. They'll be my this friend. Whereas, you know, some people, they just want to be really, like, all in with all of their friends. So I feel like the reason why I have a lot of different friends is because I kind of, like, put them into, like, what are. What is the thing that we have in common? And like, that's the thing. And then, you know, certain friends, you graduate, you go deeper and deeper. And then, like, certain friends, too, you might be really close in a period of your life. You have a shared experience. Like, you have book launches at the same time, or you were both single at the same time. And then sometimes that period of time is done and. And it goes away.

Yeah, And I think that that's a really important thing to bring up too, because it's important for people to also notice that there are different seasons in relationships too. You know, you might have a friend. I'm sure everybody listening to this has had, you know, a good friend when you were in high school or when you were a kid, and then it changes. And then your early 20s, you might have a group that you hang out with a lot, and then that falls away. And I think that that's also natural progression as well. And I think for me, just going back to what we were talking about in the beginning, too, I think that my experiences of those Relationships falling away were really jarring to me because I am such a serial monogamist, and I'm like, a ride or die, like you said. So it's. It is harder for me, and I can call myself out. Like, it's not one of my best qualities. Right. It's like my biggest. You're still processing. Yeah. Like, I definitely have, you know, those moments where I feel a little like, why is it so hard for me to, you know, go do more things and meet more people and be more open? And I think that that's probably something I have to look into. But also the way I see it, when sometimes you encourage me to, like, go and make new friends, I'm like, that's less time for you. Is that really what you want?

You know, But I. Maybe I'm like a friendship polyamorous. I'm like, there's infinite love to share.

You know, and you're right. And you're right. There is. You know, I think there is a broader capacity for those types of relationships.

And I find joy in, like, setting friends up. Like, you and Darlene. I was like, I. Genuine. Like, I genuinely think you guys will like each other, and it brings me joy. And I'm like, I want to see you guys be friends. Like, that lights me up. Maybe I'm like, the voyeur. I'm like, friends. More friends. We're friends. They're friends.

Like, the thing is, though, it doesn't happen all the time. You know, it's like, it is rare. It is a rare thing, because I've had people that I've wanted them to connect, and they connect, and it's like, oh, no, this is not gonna work. You know? And, you know, sometimes somebody that I really like, you might not like as much as I like, you know, It's a different experience. And I think it's important.

Jealousy is also real.

Oh, yeah.

Like, if you and Darlene decide to become besties and kick me out, I'm gonna have a problem.

We would never do that. But we have been hanging out every day.

No, I'm just kidding. Why would I not? You know, it's a real. It's a real thing, you know, like, let's unpack this. Yeah, let's unpack. We send each other memes sometimes.

Yeah.

When you're talking about your besties, do you get jealous, too?

Let's be honest.

Because you're.

You've been sending me those, but you.

I've never said you them. I'm like, okay.

I would be lying if I didn't say there was a little bit of a, like, thing. You're like, there is.

You're the best friend.

No, there's. You know, it's like when your friends are talking about somebody that's, like, amazing you, depending on your mood, you might be like, oh, my God, they sound so great.

Yeah.

And then depending on. Yeah. Depending on how I feel. If you're talking about somebody that's like, oh, so inspiring, they're this, they're that. And depending on how I feel that day, I might be like, like, whatever. They're probably like, you know, doing a bunch of drugs. And that's why they're, like, being so open, you know? You know what I mean? Like.

And, you know.

But it's the truth, you know, I might. But that might be just coming how I'm feeling in that moment, you know? Or it might be that I'm right.

Yeah.

You know?

Well, I think friendships get into different cadences. And so let's say you're in the cadence. Like, we're in the cadence of. Okay, we can just kind of jump into where our friendship is now. I wake up, I open my eyes and I stone Rosie. I haven't even drank water yet. I can barely speak. I wish I was joking. She's already been awake for two hours.

At this point.

It's 7am and before I say hello, I tell her my dream. We sound really codependent here, but that's okay. We codependent, but it works because we're both in it. But I feel my divorce is what got us to this level.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so.

Okay, back to the game.

Oh, yeah, yeah, go back.

We tell each other our dreams. That's mostly how it starts. You dream about me every single night.

I do. You infiltrated my subconscious.

And so I learned about myself through her dream. And then I just dream about random things, and then she interprets my dream. We interpret each other's dreams. We share what we're grateful for that day because we noticed that we were kind of going into complaining a lot. And then sometimes we will share whatever the thing is. And then I feel normally I bring a thought of the day.

Yes.

Yes, you do. And that's whatever my contemplation is because normally I used to sleep at like 8pm or something. And I said, sleep, and have gone into, like, 12 portals. And, you know, God, talk to me and da, da, da. And then I tell you, today's revelation is, can you have love without suffering? And, like, you know, like. And then we have like an NPR back and forth for a little bit, and. And then we kind of check each other in, like, during the day. And then I send you pictures of random guys from Hinge and you tell me what colors their auras are. And then I just end up talking, talking to none of them. And you tell me what's happening at work, and then you go to sleep. And that's the cadence. So I say this because it's an involved cadence. It is an involved cadence. So I feel the natural fears that may come up for you or for anyone in that is like, is this new friend going to interrupt the cadence? And it's just like in a relationship, you know, if you're in a relationship with a guy and then like, all of a sudden he has this, like, new. Even a guy friend, a new guy friend that he's like, I want to spend on my weekends with this guy friend. I want to go camping. Then you start thinking, are you going to have enough time for me? So I think it's, like, important in friendships. And sometimes there are changes in cadence. I mean, I think there have been some days that we haven't talked, but it's normally like some we tell each other before. But, like, I remember, like, I didn't get back to you one day with your voice note. And then, like, I, like, told you I'm like. Or I tell you I'm not gonna have time to listen to this voice note today, you know, But I share that with you maybe to create safety within you of, like, I'm not interrupting the cadence. It's not like, all of a sudden I want to, like, stop this voice noting thing. It's that, like, today I don't have time, you know, So I feel. Yeah, but here's the thing. Like, what happens when cadence, you know, do you have to have a conversation or not? And I feel.

But I think that the whole, like, hey, I haven't. Because you're really good about saying that. I've never asked you to do that. I've never asked you to say, oh, if you're not going to listen to my voice.

No, you've never asked me. Yeah, but it's like.

But why do you. Why do you feel. Because this is a you thing. That's not a me thing. Right. You're doing it because you.

I want to create safety, and you.

Want to create safety, and it's really not. And it feels good. And I appreciate.

I want you to know that I'm not being ignored because I know what it's like to feel ignored and be like, did they read it? Did they not? Did I talk too much? Did I not? Like, you know, I once had a friend who's like one of my best, in my tier of best friend too. And she was like, send me an update of what you're up to. And I sent her a 10 minute voice note of what I was up to. I was, I was in London at the time and I didn't hear back from her for a week. And she was like, still sending me memes and watching my stories, but she didn't get back to me. And at first, like after a day, two days, three days, and you know, in my update, it was like heavy. A lot of things I was processing with the divorce and this and that. So I'm like, did she. Was it too much? Did I share too much? Like, was that too heavy? Like, you know, I'm just not hearing back anything. And normally her and I text a lot, but then after I send that voice note, she never texted me, so I'm in my head. And then I actually asked her, I was like, hey, like, did you get the voice note or not? And she was like, sorry, I've just been really overwhelmed with work and I'm. And then I shared that. Like, that's totally cool. It's just. Yeah, I wish you would have told me because it was just weird to me that I, like sent you this like, kind of like heavy thing. And I don't really feel like sending 10 minute updates of like the traumas of my life. You know, it's not fun for me to say that, but I shared that because I care about my friendship with you and I want to deepen my friendship with you. And then when I don't hear back, but you're like sending me memes, it makes me feel like I'm not heard. And like, that's totally fine. Like, you know, different friendships have different things. And like, maybe we're more the type of friends that like, we share everything and person and. And then that's the time. And like, because for her, she said voice notes, more than two minutes overwhelm her. So when she sees a voice over two minutes, she just kind of is like, I don't have time for this. And that's the thing all around, not just me, all around the thing with her. And so I was like, okay then, like, I don't live in America anymore because, you know, I was gone at that point for a long time. So I was like, so then I'll just catch up with you, like, no worries, I'll just catch up with you. Whenever we see each other again. She felt like I was friendship breaking up with her and she was like, you're bringing up my abandonment wound of like, she felt that I was like, well, if you can't voice note with me at this, then I'll just see you when I see you. And I meant we don't need to be voice noting like this all the time. Like, I have certain friends that I do that with and certain friends not. And it was a really great conversation that we had because now I, I, I sent her voices. I never sent her more than one minute. You know, I'll give her updates, but it's like more like top, like this is the main thing that happened, you know, rather than this back and forth just because I know she's very busy and I don't want it, I don't want her to feel. To be my friend, you need to do friendship in this way.

Yeah.

So our dynamic of friendship is just different. We're still very, very close friends, but the long conversations are more for in person. Whereas for you and I's friendship, we were, we've actually been long distance friends for longer than we were in person friends because we were in person friends. But it was like still, we were in that group until 2020. I moved to Miami and then my divorce happened end of 2022. And that's, we were very, we were best friends, but that even deepened. So it was a lot of voice noting. So our friendship is very based in voice noting and updating. And I don't think it annoys either of us.

No, it definitely does. I think for me, I thought about this the other day as I was listening. Tori was right. He's in there. He's like, what's going on now? He's like, what's the update? And I'm just like, stay out of my business. As I was listening to a voice note, I realized that you and I really value being heard. And I think it's really interesting that we both have this medium of communication. Right. Like this podcast or, you know, the, the, the, the way that we, the way that we share information. Right. Is very vocal, obviously. And I realized I'm like, oh, this is, this is active listening. Right? Because if we were having, when we hang out together, it's a back and forth and we can be in each other's space. But when I'm listening to a voice note, I'm fully immersed in that experience. And so are you. Right? So. So, yeah, I can be doing other things. You know, I could be making a smoot, making some tea or whatever, but. But I'm listening to what's happening, right? I'm fully engaged in that. And I think that that's really special because it does deepen the intimacy portion of the relationship. And it, for me, I know that it makes me feel heard when you respond to me and you're giving me your thoughts, because it's like, oh, she heard exactly what I was saying, or she understood that I was having conflict, or she understood that I was having this feeling, or even. There's twofold. Being heard is really special, and I think it increases intimacy. But also having a safe space to process, as we've done with each other at times, is also really special and also creates intimacy. Because even if I'm struggling with something that I'm sharing with you, as I'm sharing it with you, I'm already feeling better about the situation because I'm like, oh, I know what she's gonna say, and I know she's gonna ask the deeper question. So as I'm talking and I can share that already. I can feel the comfort in that. And I think that it's important to be able to have and create that container with your friends when you're talking about the deeper intimacy. For example, the example that you just gave now, where you felt you didn't feel heard, right? This is somebody that you have a relationship with. You shared something that you were going through at the time, and I remember that right? And you felt like, this is something you wanted to share with this person, and they didn't receive it. So it does make you feel a little. Sort of like you're putting a wall up, right? Because I'm like, oh, I don't know if I'm safe here now. Right. So how do I establish that safety? How do I. How do I build that container with this person? And not everybody's going to be able to have that container with you. I think it's important for us to talk about what the container is, because even in our sharing before that, I.

Want to talk about voice note etiquette.

Oh, okay.

There's a lot here. Okay, well, the first tip I want to give to the listener right now is if you want to increase your cadence with friends you want to move from. We talk sometimes. Or give long updates. Just start by sending a short voice note and just be like, hey, like, what are you up to today? Like, you know, this thing just happened. Or I was thinking this, or I was listening to this podcast and see if they respond back. Just, like, test it out, you know, I feel like that's a really good way of just increasing communication, because even in our. When we were in a group of friends, it was not as daily and it was these longer updates of, hey, guys, this week, this is what happened. It was more of that after the fact. And that was. It's a different. Whereas now we're much more ingrained in each other's lives, which to me, I value so much more, you know, because I. It's like a relationship, you know, and it's like, you get to have someone. I think that's what we all miss. Like, we all had that in, like, high school. Like, yeah. That you saw every day and you talk to. And it was like, it didn't have to be so, like, formal of checking in. So the way to do that is just to test out the water. Send them a little voice note. Send them, you know, a funny meme with it. I think there's also. Because so, like, texting and social media can be so dry, you know, we have to take that extra step. Like, I always am sending gifts of explaining the thing. You're always making Photoshop things of me, and it's like, these things that it takes extra time. You know, I have to look up all the OSHO gifs and find the right one for the moment. And you literally see. I don't know how you Photoshop me with every guy on Hinge I've ever matched with to see how good we would look together. It's amazing saving some of those forever. But, like, that's. And then I'm like, always acknowledging. You're like, wow. And then I share it. Even with my hairstylist. I was like, look at my best friend's Photoshop skills. Yes, that's Britney Spears ex husband and me. Wouldn't we look good Persian powerhouse. So we acknowledge each other. So I want to talk. So. So test it out. That's a good way to. To deepen it. Add some more pizzazz. Like, do an extra little thing for them. Add extra emoticons, Bring some aliveness to the conversation. Ask an interesting question. You know, like, we're so bored in our lives. Like, I feel the value that I add in friendships is like, I'm always like, let's, like, not on this, like, really interesting topic. Like, let's, like, dive deep into this thing. Like, actually Krista, who's like, both of our friends, and she's a podcast host and stuff. She was like, you send the most interesting voice notes I've ever heard in my life. Because my voice, it starts with updated and goes into this like existential, like where our relationship's heading in the 21st century and our men feeling seen and like, you know, like all the, all of the things. And I feel that again, we all have our certain ways of adding value. It's like whatever is your way of adding value. Like take the extra initiative to share that now with the voice note etiquette and something I try to be really mindful of. And like sometimes I'm like, am I even being mindful enough of it is like to acknowledge what the other person said? Because I've noticed sometimes with other people I voice note, I send a voice note and they're like oh cool. And they just go straight into their thing without. And they're probably in their head thinking, oh well I heard it. So me hearing it was me acknowledging it. Whereas what we do is like we often send a first voice note responding to that voice note of like, you know, yeah, like it seems like in your work like this thing's going on and da da da da. And like how do you feel about this? And like asking questions and like, like I heard what you said, I'm mirroring back what you said. Even if I'm just rewording what you said is like, I'm literally telling you I've heard it. And I think a lot of people, especially with like text messaging and stuff, forget that. Like I have a friend that she's just really bad at texting. You know, she just like won't respond. And her partner, who's also my friend, he was like, it's funny because she'll read your text aloud and be laughing to it, but then not respond. Like she just forget, like forgets to be like, you know, and then certain people, the way they text is like like very real, like enriched. They're like hahaha. With the rate of Modicons and this and that. And it just, it's just an extra active effort. And I'm putting a lot of emphasis in this right now just because a lot of friendship is keeping in touch. You know, it's like unless you're next door neighbors and you see each other all the time, you might have a great time with someone in person, but you can only have a friendship if you put some the time and consistency in being a part. I have met so many amazing people, especially here in la, who I never see Again, because it's like I might send them a text or invite them something they don't get back to me, or they. It's just like, it takes two. And it's like relationships are not just built in the time you spend together, but it's in the instance, the effort and the consistency. And, you know, I think voice noting is a really good way because it's like you can hear the person's inflections, and it's not just text, and it's a little bit less. Like, if we were to find times in our schedule to FaceTime, we probably wouldn't have.

Yeah.

You know, so I think voice noting was helpful. But then we did have to also schedule times to zoom.

Yeah. And we scheduled trips. We've. You know, we haven't done one in a little while. But, you know, we. We make an effort to do a fully immersed experience, like, go, you know, get a massage or like, go and, you know, do something. And I think that's really important. I think that definitely speaks to the. The sort of. What is it called? The epidemic of loneliness. And I think that a lot of it has to do because we think because we're following people online that we're connecting, but that's not really a connection.

We're just sending each other memes.

Yeah.

A lot of friendships are that these days.

Right. And I have, you know, friendships that. That's all we do. You know, it's like we just send memes like that's. And, you know, like that. Fine. You know, but there has to be something else, you know, in order to keep the relationship vibrant. Because I think we don't realize how much we need friendships until they're not there.

Yes.

Right.

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It.

And friendships can provide you with something that no romantic relationship ever will. Like, women just get each other in a way that a man just can't. Yeah, he can't. He literally just is. Not biologically. And. And thank God for that, you know? But I feel so often women will make their partners their everything.

Yeah.

And not feel deeply fulfilled that we need to keep. And then for me, what it reminds me of is, like, when I first became single, I was like, oh, like, I can't do these things anymore because these are things that you do with a partner, you know? Like, even the other day when I was in Austin, I saw this Swan Boats. The first thought in my head, I was like, oh, I can't wait to have a boyfriend to go on the swan boat. I was like, I can literally go on a swan boat with my friend. Like, you can do. And you probably have more fun, you know, like, you probably will. And it's like our friends, like, women, like, and we have become so much more, like, loving in the way that we communicate with each other. Like, we're just like, I'm just like, Rosa, you are just magnetic. You're gorgeous. You're smart, you're talented. You're this. And it's like, these are the things that we want our partners to often say. Or, like, we send each other flowers and we get each other gifts and we do things, and it's like, if we don't give that to each other, we're going to be, like, so deeply craving just a man to. And then when he isn't, we're going to be so let down. But if you're getting those words of affirmation and quality time and all those things from your friends, then you're not as, like, needy from your partner.

Yeah. And I think that that goes to the whole concept of growing up and being. And living in tribes. Different people fill different voids. They filled different parts of our needs. And I think that's really important because we are in a place where you get your partner, and then your partner's not fulfilling you in those ways. They don't want to have the deep conversations, or they are not, you know, wanting to evolve or learn or whatever. And then all of a sudden, you're not satisfied with your partner when maybe they just have a different way of communicating. When you're getting those needs met from your community or your friends, you're more content with the relationship that you have. Not to say that you shouldn't examine your relationship, but there's so many parts of my life are filled and colored by my friends, you know, the people outside of my relationship that he would never be able to fill. Like, there's, like, so many things that, you know, I. I get from. From you, you know, or from, you know, my other friends.

Like, Tori, is life universal suffering? Is this a Buddhist or tantric philosophy? We could try, but you're not.

He's not gonna do it.

He's not gonna be like, me, you know, I'm like, let's dive in, you know, and it's like. And then you. Since you have that, you're not like, Tori, you're not spiritual enough for me.

Right.

You know, you're like, thank God I. All I talk about with Sahara is, are these kind of things. I could have sex with you, you know, and enjoy that. Yeah.

No, and it's interesting, you know, going back to what you said earlier, of. Of having the capacity and also maybe the fear of interrupting the cadence. Right. Like, I think that we have more capacity than we think. Like, had you told me four years ago that we would have the type of relationship that we have now, I'd been like, oh, I don't think I could do it.

Well, I'm sure people listening are like, that sounds like too much work. I don't have time for that. And again, who knows if we'll always be like this? But I would say it's.

Why are you even putting that out there? Cause she's like.

Cause, well, here's the thing that it's like. Like, how does being in a new person, being in a romantic relationship.

I know I'm already prepared for it. It's fine.

I'm like, sleeping next to him. I'm like, move over, Rosie. I just woke up my husband kicking Tori out.

I have not seen Tori all morning. He's coming into the office. We share an office. And then I'm like, like, put my hand up. Like, I'm leaving a voice note for Sahara and he goes back out with his coffee. But at the beginning, look, I.

A new relationship, you got to give it, like, a few months.

I mean, yeah, I'll be back. It's fine. No, and you want to. And I'm excited for you to immerse yourself and be in that bubble.

You're going to be, like, with your coffee in the corner, waiting. You're going to be like Kim Kardashian, like, the Bushes thing, like, out of the bubble yet. What was your dream? I have one for you.

I'll be like, I bet he can't tell you what your dream meant exactly.

Definitely can't. Okay, let's talk about the things not to do with friends.

Oh. Let's talk about the container and building the container. Like, how to. You know, I think that sometimes.

What. First of all, what is the container?

Okay.

This is an integral part of our friendship.

Yes. So the container is a place that we verbalize to each other when we're wanting to have a completely, brutally, unapologetic truth. Unapologetic conversation. Honesty. Like, because, look, even in relationship. Yeah. We want to support each other and we want to lift each other up, and, you know, we don't. I know there's been times where even you've said, you've sent me messages saying, like, I don't really want to go into this because I don't want to ruin your day. Or I don't. Tell me how much of this you want me to tell you because I don't want it to, like, bring you down. And I'm always like, give it. Give it all.

Well, that's because I know your pattern is taking on too much. So that's why I'm like, let me just let you choose how much of the situation you want to know about.

Right. And I appreciate that. And that's very conscious of yourself to do that. At the same time, it's like, I feel like for me, you know, I'm able to hold it. Right. But going back to the container, the container piece is important because as much as we want to support our friends and be in a happy place and be in a good place.

There'S also.

Times where we might disagree with certain things that we're choosing or doing or people we're talking to. Right. And I think that, you know, it's. It's you trying to not sometimes you.

Shooting with your face.

Okay, so, so. Or, you know, if I'm having some sort of, you know, quandary of a choice I need to make or setting a boundary. Right. Particularly in, you know, a familial situation or something that's going on, you know, where we feel like, I really love my friend. We're really, you know, conscious and upbeat and we're grateful. Hashtag blessed. Everything's amazing. And want to hold each other in that light at the same time. Like, I don't want to not be able to tell her something if I'm disagreeing with some something or if I'm seeing. Like, somebody just gave her a terrible piece of advice and I don't agree with it, and I want to be able to express it. And so instead of me, just like. Because what if I'm in a mood? Yeah, Right. If Sahara leaves me a voice note about a friend that maybe I'm not a big fan of, let's just hypothetically say. And if I'm feeling some type of way because I'm tired, you know, I'm just. Had an argument with Tori. I'm just feeling super overwhelmed. And she sends me this, like, thought that she's considering. And in my mind, I'm like, why are you even considering this? This is, like, not good. You know, I could say I could just respond and be like, this person's an idiot. Don't listen to them, and that's wrong, and they don't know what they're talking about. Or I could say, hey, which. Which if I were to respond to that, she would take it and it would be fine. But I think it's such an abrupt thing that we don't think about. Right. We're not checking ourselves, our reactivity at the door. And I think this just goes across to even romantic relationships. Right. So if I just respond to her that way, that might be jarring for her. She could be having a great day. She just talked to this friend. She's just sharing with me because I'm her friend and she just wants to, like, have this conversation, and I just kind of lash out. Right. Because I'm having a strong emotion. I think for us, if we decide to share in that way. And if I'm feeling some type of way, first of all, I address it. I can be aware of it myself and say, hey, I want to share this with You. It could be that I'm feeling some type of way, so it might come out a little aggressive, but can we go into the container? Are we in the container? Is this a safe space to share? And she might say, yeah, we're in the container. And at that point I can share and give, but she's already in that preparedness to take in what I'm about to put down. She knows what it's going to be like and she's prepared. Right. For the truth as opposed to me just sending a non disclaimer. And we do that too. It's like we send.

Yeah. If we send a heavy voice note, we put like, hey, there's like a lot to chew on this one. So, like, sit with it when you feel like you want to process something extra, you know? Whereas, like, I might listen to the voice note thinking you're going to be like, talking about your day. And then it's like, your grandma died, you know, and it's like, so we kind of do these. What would that be called? Yeah, like, yeah, trigger warning.

Yeah, like a little trigger warning. Like a little underneath the voice.

And we write that. So it's like you before listening to it, like, you sent me the other one the other day and you were like, this one's heavy.

Yeah.

So, you know, and then you sent me one. You were like, I actually feel different. I actually listened to your first one where you felt better first.

Yeah.

Because I was like, well, this is how she feels now and this is what I'm gonna respond to. And then I listened to one later and it just gave me more, like, pretext, but it was almost like I didn't even really need to respond to that one because you were in it. You. You sending the voice note was like coaching yourself.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I think that, you know, but going back to the container, we have a mutual agreement where if we're in the container, you can just say how you feel. You can just say how you feel.

And. And also our containers are not that we're like, I'm not like, hey, Rosie, I don't like how you do this. We're not giving each other. That's not our way of doing back on our on. And, you know, it's interesting. We've never actually had a fight.

I know you're trying to create a fight. Remember, you wanted us to have our first, like, issue. Go ahead and share that. No, you were like, we've never had a. Remember when we were saying, like, we had a. When the rest of our crew disintegrated. Crew disintegrated. You were like, we've never had a disagreement or a tense moment. We've never had, like, a fight. And then you're like, should we have a fight just to get it over with? Do you remember that? Do you remember saying, should we have a fight?

I don't know how we could invent one, but Maybe. But, yeah, I would say the. But the thing that actually brought us closer was the disintegration of that group because it was based on kind of a fight on whatever. It was based on this person not seeing eye to eye with us.

Yeah. We were just out of alignment.

Out of alignment. And that jarringness of that was a lot to process.

Yeah.

You know, because it's like, you're used to being a group of three, and then one person all of a sudden is like, I'm out.

Yeah.

You know, and the way that we process that with each other, which was different, but, like, holding each other through that is what made the friendship. So it was sort of a rupture is what. And I think that. Here's another little tip that I have, is, like, sometimes ruptures are what you need to get to the next level of friendship.

Yeah.

You know, if it wasn't for that and maybe just this other friend just kind of slid away, I think maybe we would have maybe just slid away. We wouldn't have necessarily gone deeper.

Yeah.

I don't think that that made us go deeper.

Yeah. And I agree with you. I think that that helped us sort of graduate to the next level. And I think your divorce helped us graduate to even that. That further level after that.

Yes. You know, definitely. Yeah. I remember another friend of mine. This is, like, years ago, and she was like, more friends I would see out sometimes. We would take a walk. And then I remember once she sent me a voice note, and it was. She was like, hey, like, I know I've never really brought any of my, like, boy problems to you and stuff before, but, like, I know this is how friendships deepen. I want to share this with you, and I really appreciated that.

Yeah.

I love that she felt comfortable to open up with me. And, you know, and she has become, like, one of my best friends as well, and someone so, so sweet in my life. Okay, let's go back to what not to do, because I know you said, like, people being like, hey, let's be friends.

Yeah.

Or can I pick your brain? Or.

Or, like, somebody that's just like, oh, my God, I want to be your best. I want to be friends with you.

To me, that feels like that's constant fan energy. Okay, but.

But here. Okay, I'll position it like this. This. What if there's somebody who. Let's say you went to a workshop and you met somebody. You didn't know anybody there. You met one person, and you got along with them great, and they served the purpose for that whole workshop. You. You got to know them, you did some group work. You maybe go on a couple of coffee dates. After that, you really get along. Right. And you're like, okay, I could. I could explore this. But what if for you, you're not as interested in that time being friends with that person, and. But they are very interested in being friends with you, and they're constantly asking you to get together and to go out, and they're always doing what you're saying to do. What do you do in that situation?

I think we have to be our own boundary. So rather than necessarily saying, like, hey, I'm noticing you really want to be my friend, but I can't be your level, like, that can feel really harsh. Yeah, I feel like you respond in the cadence of friendship you want to be. You know, like, I'm someone who. I respond to texts instantly is just like, if I read something, I just need to respond to get it out of my sphere. But then I can put in people's head, I want to keep going back and forth with you, but I'm like, no, I just kind of want to close this, you know? So I've had to learn, okay, well, if I don't want to keep going back and forth, just don't respond. You know, like, take a longer time. So then they'll take a longer time. And, you know, I always get back to people the same day. That's part of who I am. I'm not. Like, for me, I can't be friends with people who, after, like, a week, they reply to you. It's like, then I just put you in the category of see when I see you, you know, I really don't like that. And I feel like a lot of Scorpios are like that. I've noticed that with no Scorpio guys and girls. But I guess I sort of suggest an experience that I want to have with that person. Like, okay, like. Like, let's go to this pottery class, or, let's do that. So I kind of find a place for them. If I find the new friend, I find the place on my Christmas tree.

That's so Capricorn maybe. Yeah, it's very Capricorn. Because to me, it's like I get anxious because I feel like I maybe. Actually I think I get anxious because I know the. The level and depth that I go into and I feel like I don't have the space. And maybe this way.

You had the same fear that I had in relationships that I was like, I don't even wanna go on a date with someone. Cause I might just get married to them.

Right.

So you're like, I don't even wanna sometimes hang out with you because I'll make you my best friend and put you before myself. So let me just not.

Yeah, but it's a protective mechanism.

Right. Because we don't know our own internal boundaries.

Right.

Like. Like what I had to learn with dating is like, you could go on one date with someone. Stop. You go on five days, you could date them for two years and stop. It doesn't have to be forever. So I think that's the thing. You're. Even your face is like responding. Like, it's like, you can be friends with someone and it not be till death do us part friendship. Not everyone is going to be that in your life. You can't have that with everyone in your life. If you only want that with everyone in your life. You don't. You then can only have very few friends.

Yeah. So I, like, am marrying your dating life.

And again, who knows? Like, I've also had to kind of just embrace that about myself. And I am back to not dating. You know, you're like, the next person I date will be my husband. So maybe that's just the thing we do.

But I think it just goes back to being to. For the people listening to this. It just. It goes back to getting to know yourself and knowing what it is that you're wanting and what you're looking for. And if I can impart just one piece of advice, be the type of friend you want to have. You know, don't be a taker. Don't be a taker friend that just wants to plug into the energetic field of your loved ones and unload on them and then be like, oh, my God, I want to hang out with them all the time. You just unload on your friends like that. How do you think they feel? Like, have you ever considered to ask the other person?

Friends are not therapists.

Yeah.

And I think that women have been taught that that's what friendship is. Yeah. I hold space for you, you hold space for me. And that's it, you have to be creating new experiences together, new memories together. That's why it's like when you have like old friends from like college, it's like, haha, remember back in college, this thing, it's like we've run out of memories. You've talked about those things like a thousand times. It's like if you're not actively creating new memories with that person, that friendship's just gonna die out.

Yeah, yeah. And, and that's okay. I think it, I think it's, it's also good to accept the fact that relationships, they disintegrate, you know, or they, they go out of alignment or they just come, they fade away over time or, you know, if, if you're single and then all of a sudden you're in a romantic relationship, your, your friendships are gonna change.

Having a child.

Yeah. Having a child. Yeah.

I've noticed with my friends who have kids, it definitely changes the friendship.

Yeah, it does. And to me, I'm also that person with the people in my life that, that are friends. Like, I'm not. It's funny because there are certain people where I need the consistency. Right. But not with everybody. Like, there's more sort of bandwidth for people that maybe come in and then you don't hear from them for a while. But then when you get together, it's like, oh, it's like no time has passed.

So what if someone's like, I feel like I have a lot of friends like that, but I don't have like, like a rosy Sahara friendship. I want that. I like deeply want. Like, a lot of people miss having like a best friend, you know, it's so cool.

Yeah.

And it's rare.

It is.

So how can people like, even know like, which of their friends to like, choose or like, how does one dive deeper with one? Or does it just naturally happen?

I think that the takeaway you gave with initially in the beginning, in the beginning of just seeing who takes you up on your offers, you know, just see who's willing. I think that's the first thing is see who's willing to be that with you. See who's willing and who wants that too. I think it naturally evolves. I mean, it's the thing I say when you're looking for a relationship. It's like when you're not looking, that's when it happens.

Yeah.

I would have never thought that we would have evolved our relationship in the way that we did. In fact, it's.

I said this earlier because we're also in very different Places of our lives.

Yeah.

Like, in every. In every way. I'm very, very entrepreneurial. You like to have more of, like, a steady job. Like, I'm extremely single. You're extremely married. You know, like, you know, I guess we even the things we like to do. Yeah.

But we're very opposite.

Yeah. Yeah. However, what we share in common is how we relate.

Yeah.

And I think that that's the most important thing. Even in romantic relationships, you might be totally different than the person, but if you have that same cadence, you both want the relationship, you're both finding value in the. Because it's like, what's the benefit of a friendship or relationship? It's intimacy. It's closeness. It's feeling seen, it's feeling understood. If you both want those things, you could be friends with an old person. You could be friends with an inmate. You could be friends with, like, anyone as long as they want to be your friend. So I would say the best way to have a friendship is, like, who wants to have that? You can't force someone to be your friend.

Yeah.

They might seem like, oh, my God, like, we're both, like, engaged. We both do this similar thing. Like, we would make such best friends. But if they just don't want it, there's no amount of texting, following up you can do to make it happen.

So what. So what is your advice, then, to the people listening right now that are having that unrequited friendship?

I would say there's. It's twofold. Who are the people you're friends with right now that it's like, maybe, like, we just could spend some more time together.

Yeah.

I would say, again, spend time outside of the kids and the work and this and that. Like, go on a retreat, go to a cabin, go do something. And if you feel like it's weird to just invite them because it's like they. You don't really know them. Maybe it's a group of, like, four. I think four is better than three, because three can be, like, two people are talking, one person's left out. So four feels like. So maybe a group of four of you. But the other fold is, like, sometimes it's finding someone new.

Yeah.

You know, like, some people you just have, like, a natural spark with, and some people you don't. So maybe just the people in your life, like, you've kind of rid it to the level that it could be at. You're just like, in very different places of your life. Because even though we're in different places, like, I'm more entrepreneurial, you're more. But like, we still are consciously at the same place in our lives. Like, we also are both podcasters and authors and like, we also do share a lot of things. We. Here's another thing. We also know a lot of the same people and I think that that's also our work is what helps keep the friendship. Whereas sometimes you make a friend that you don't know any of the same people, and that's a little bit harder to maintain the friendship because they're telling you about all these characters in their lives. You don't know anything about them. And you don't know everyone in my life, I don't know everyone in yours. But we know enough overlap from podcasting authors. So I would say go somewhere that is the kind of work you want to do or are doing. Like, if you're a coach, go to coach conferences. Like go to my events. You know, if you're into the divine feminine, go to divine feminine retreats. If you're into yoga, go to yoga retreats. And those people there. First of all, if someone's going out, people only leave their house right now if they want friends. If you don't want friends, it's very easy to just stay home and do everything online. You could do a yoga teacher training online. You could do online everything. If people are leaving their house to even go to the gym because they want to talk to people. Yeah, I notice in myself the days that I don't want to talk to people, I just do an at home workout. I don't need to go. It's the days that I'm like, oh, I feel like socializing kind of or just being around people are the days I actually, like, put on a cute outfit and go to the gym. So if someone's out, they're out because they want to be talked to. I would say my big tip also is to not wear AirPods. Oh, yes, we talk that a lot in dating. But it's also true for friendship. If you have AirPods on, no one's going to come up to you. If you're on your phone the moment the yoga class ends, no one's going to come up to you. Like, look up and look around, you know, like this. My friend gave me this suggestion that she does for finding guys at bars, but I'll give the suggestion here that she says what she does. She does a lap. So she'll walk around the restaurant or walk around the bar pretending she's looking for someone. Why? Because then she's up and her eyes are open, and she's making eye contact, and she says, always someone comes up to her. So it's like, take that for friends. Like, if you're at an event, maybe do a lap around the event and pretend you're looking for someone. So then you're making eye contact with people. Another thing, like, I just went to this entrepreneurship conference I was telling you about, and I've never met such friendly people in my life. Like, I was, like, waiting in line for a coffee, and the guy behind me was like, hey. I'm like, hey. And we just had this conversation, you know, Like, I don't think him and I are going to ever be friends. But it was like, instead of me sitting and I was actually even looking on my phone, and he said hi to me, you know? But that was very much like, the culture of there. Yeah, But I think we all want to be talked to. Like, even though I was on my phone, I wasn't like, oh, why is this guy talking to me? I was like, hey. And we talked about his polyamorous relationship. And that was interesting because, you know, they love talking about that. So I would say sometimes it's like, if you're at a networking event or something, first of all, go. Go on eventbrite.com that's where. When I first moved to LA, I would look up Shaman Sister circle, like, these words, and I would go to these events, and I would just, like, talk to people. You know, again, if someone's also on eventbrite.com you really want to make friends. And, like, literally, just here's a big thing. Compliment. I always comment people on their outfits. I love what you're wearing. Oh, my God, your hair. And I mean it. I always. It's something that I genuinely like about them. I also noticed at this entrepreneurship conference, the people who dressed stylishly, I was the most attracted to, because I'm like, they took that extra initiative to show me what they're about.

Yeah.

Whereas if someone's just wearing this, like, plain Jane outfit, they might not be plain Jane inside, but I'm assuming they are because of how they're externally dressed. Whereas, like, there was this, like, older woman there. She was probably, like, 65 years old. She had purple hair and, like, all these things. I really wanted to talk to her because I was just like, who are you? You know, like, there's something really interesting about you that you're 65 years old and, like, such a freaking punk, you know? And so I would say, dress how you are. Like, if you saw me dressed like this, you're gonna assume, okay, this girl's a fucking fairy, and I am. You know, and it's like, what a good conversation started. Like, I was talking about how when I went to Davos, I was wearing my hot pink jack, and that was the thing. So give people confidence. Wear things that would be complimented. That's such a good conversation starter. And I feel this is a lost art, but, like, friends should be friendship matchmaking, and we're really not.

Yeah. And I think that a lot of that has to do with this set, the feeling of lack. Because if I connect you with this person who I think you'd be really. You know, that's happened to me a lot.

That you friendship connect and then.

No.

Be your friend.

I can I. That I've been blocked from people connecting me with others. Like, I've had friends actually say to me, I would connect you, but I don't. I'm not going to. Because you guys are going to become friends and you are going to want to hang out with her, and I don't want that. I don't want people to know what a good friend you are. I've had that happen on three different occasions.

That's a red flag for a person because then they're just, like, possessing you.

Yeah.

It seems like a common thing you have with your friends is people, like, wanting to claim your time.

Yeah.

Because that just never happens to me. So it's interesting how a lot of our friendship experiences are so different. But again, it's like, because your gift is your time and your presence, whereas I'm always asked to be connected to other people. People are always asking me, can you connect me with this? Can you put me on your podcast? Because people are always asking me favors. So if someone's coming in and they're like, I want to pick your brain. Oh, can you connect me with this person? That instantly my guards up. Really?

Yeah.

So it's funny how people, like, based on your aura, they, like, come with their agenda. And so the agenda to me and the agenda to you are different agendas that people see, you know?

Yeah. Interesting.

So I think the reason why we became friends is we didn't come with those agendas.

Yeah, there was no agenda.

I was like, let me try to help your life. You're just like this girl, so, so cute. I know.

It's like, she's adorable, you know, And I just loved your. Your vibe and your energy. And I. I think that that is what attract. It's the Attraction. Right. We're opposite enough, but we're the same also. We have the same type of communication template. We. We're both very honest with each other. We're both really caring. And I think that. That at the end of the day, you know, it does come down to values, you know, and, like, what you value, what I value.

Like, our souls manife, like, from trial and error of being ourselves with different people that you just end up with the person that it works with.

I don't know.

Probably both.

That's a great question. Yeah, I think it could be both.

Because, like, with other friends, like, again, I never planned out the friendship. I could.

Yeah, you could. I, like, I couldn't replicate our. Our relationship.

No.

You know, I. I don't think I. I don't have any relationship like ours.

But I think that's the gift of find of creating your. It's like we didn't find each other. We created the kind of friendship we both really wanted. I think think both of us subconsciously desired really deep emotional and mental intimacy with someone to, like, really know how they felt and their thoughts and what's going on in their mind and, like, really be in someone's life.

Yeah.

You know, and if you are wanting that, it's like, you don't jump there. But I think. I think where a huge wall ripped open was, you know, after my divorce. And I was just so sad that the old. I mean, I had never experienced levels of sadness before that. But I brought you into my experience, you know, and then it's like. And you could have just been like, holy crap, this is too much, or you could have chosen whatever cadence you wanted. That would have been fine with me.

Yeah.

You know, it's just the cadence. And it was different according to, like, where I was too, but it was just like, the cadence was less like. Like, I'm here for this. And that brought us to deeper levels, you know, and then when I became mentally stable again, I was like, oh, that was cray cray, you know, but in a way, like, I do think situations like this make you so much closer to your friends, because when you don't have a partner, you know, it's like your friends literally become your partner. Like I was when I was on the mdma.

I don't know if you're gonna bring.

That up or not.

I'm like, my son.

I was on this MDMA healing ceremony thing, and I just said, rose, what was I even saying? I don't even remember. I sent you, like, the longest voice Note.

It was like 11 minutes of you just rolling.

What was I saying?

You're just like, you're the best. I love you so much. Like, you're a really good friend. And you just, like, went through all these, like, different things that we had talked about. And you're like, you're such a good listener. Like, I just really love you. Like, I love you, you know?

No, And I remember one thing that I said that I remembered that I was like. Like, most days, you're the only person that asks me how I feel. Yeah. Which is, like. And it's the truth, you know? And especially when you go through something like a traumatic betrayal. And, like, the person that you had as, like, that was the person that you lived with and talked to. And then, like, all of a sudden they're, like, out of your life overnight. It's like, you. I can see why people go into, like, really deep, deep loneliness. And just. Even. Just having you is like, you became my, like. Like, primary source of relationship. Especially because I wasn't in communication really, with my parents at that time either, because of their projections of the divorce. So I remember saying, like, yeah, if it wasn't for you checking in on me, there would probably be days of my life that, like, no one even knew I existed.

Yeah, Yeah, I remember that. That was a hard, hard time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then. So it's like, things like that. Then it's like when I come out of that, I'm like. I don't want to use the word indebted, but I just feel like, oh, my God, like, you're never going to forget friends that were there for you in those times.

And I think, too, the. For me just, like, when you love somebody, like, I love you, you know, like, you're my friend, and I just. If you're in pain, I'm in pain, you know? And I think that that's part of the friendship that you don't. You can't really teach that. You know, it's like that level of, like, connection. Like, I felt what you were going through, and most people. Yeah, I mean, I don't wanna say most people, but it. You know, there's a lot of people that will shy away from that because it's. It can be a lot, you know, But I. I think when you really love somebody, you don't think about it like that.

And I think it was like, if I had just. We had just started the friendship, and then I'm, like, going through this really heavy divorce, then you probably would have been like, I don't. You wouldn't feel the need to really show up or the desire to really show up. Cause it's new. We had watered the. The plant and the flower so much.

Yeah.

The flower was already flourishing. And then we went through this thing that it was like, okay, like, I'm here with you, you know? Whereas I feel a lot of people only want a best friend once they're going through that thing.

Yeah, that's true.

You know, imagine once you're. Or the fact now, why don't you be my best friend?

Yeah. Or. Or the fact that you're. You've changed. You're a different person now.

Yeah.

You know, like, the person that you are now. Like, what if it's not in alignment with me?

And. And it could not be, you know, and. Yeah. So what would you do?

I don't know. Break up with you, I guess. Would you? Consciously.

With you. I'm like, I don't. Based on your patterning. I don't know. You know?

No, I don't. I. I don't see. I think that who you are now is so much better. Like, I love. I've said this to you so many times.

Yeah.

Like, I love who you are now. Like, to me, I think what has also brought us closer is the fact that you've embraced so much of your darker side. That really speaks to my inner goth. And I think that that sort of. It made you a whole person. Not that you weren't a whole person before, but to me, with my background, you know, how I grew up, you know, gangs, violent, you know, etc.

Like, I need to get my trauma stamp.

You needed to get your trauma stamp. And because there's just certain things where before it was like, yes, you could hold deep, heavy conversations, and we can go into those places. You could do that. But it's different now. You know, it's like when you've been through hell, you know what the landscape's like, and you can speak to it in a different way. And. And you're so much better now. Like, you. You are such a better person, such a better friend, such a better entrepreneur, artist, creative. You're a pop star now. Like, this version of you is so much better than the version I met.

And isn't it interesting because, like, imagine, like, I remember sending you, or I think I called you after finding out about the infidelity and, like, telling you that on the phone, and, you know, I was with another friend.

Oh, yeah.

And you should her to be quiet because you were sort of Just like, okay. Like. Because that person was just giving me different advice, you know? And you were just like, I got this. Like, I'm here. And you really leaned in. Now imagine if you were just like, oh, this girl is about to go through a year of a dark knight of a soul.

Yeah.

Let me kind of seep out before she hugs me, which I think a lot of people do, you know, Then you wouldn't have experienced this better version of me. That's actually a way more empathic and caring friend. If you were like, oh, shit, she's about to be indoctrinated. The soul. I'm out.

Yeah.

You know, so it's like, I think a lot of times when friends are going through hard times, people walk away, but it's like, well, then you don't get the fruit.

Yeah, you don't get the fruit. That's right.

And on the other end of it is like, the friends that were there for me in my divorce, I'll remember. The friends that were not there for me in my divorce, I'll remember if you were not there for me in my divorce and you're going through a breakup and you keep calling me. Yeah, love you, but I can't process that with you.

Yeah.

The ones who were there for me, I will always be there for them. You know, like, another friend of mine, she came to Bali and, you know, spent time with me there, and that's, like, you know, a long way to go. And she really listened. It was. It was a different style, but now that she's going through hers, I just feel really like, I got you, you know, I want to be there for you. And it's not so much as, like, it doesn't need to be a tit for tat. Not like everyone's going to go through a breakup, but it's like I just saw, really saw. When you're going through something hard, it's like, how much someone really cares or not, you know? And like, there were certain people that, like, never checked in, you know, and they're like, oh, like, why was I invited to speak on your stage? Or, like, whatever the thing is. And it's like, just shows to me what you really desire out of me.

Yeah.

You know, so I think hard times, either it shows your true colors. Is this friendship going to get closer? Is it going to drift away?

Yeah. I think that that's what helped us get closer to, you know, being able to see you through that experience. And. And I. And I don't know.

There is.

Is that moment I think where people get to decide somebody's going through something. Oh, they're about to. They're about to embark on a challenge. Are you gonna ride or die? You know, are you gonna ride or die? Or are you gonna.

And would that friend do the same for me?

Yeah. I mean, I. I can't say for me, maybe, because the type of friend I am, I would never. I don't think like that. You know, I. I wouldn't go into something and think, like, oh, is Sahara gonna do this for me? I hope. Hope you never have to. Right. But. But I know that you would.

Yeah.

You know, I think there's also that sort of sense of holding, of security. Like, we've been able to build a relationship where I. I've said this to you before. It's like, I don't ever feel judged or I don't feel like it's not a safe space for me to be honest or be my full self, you know, And I think maybe, you know, going back to, you know, creating the. Not conflict, but creating these obstacles that have happened in our relationship that we've encountered has made us grow as people, as individuals, but also helped us grow in. In the relationship. And I'm sure once, you know, a person comes into your life, the. It'll change and, you know, it'll be what. It's what it's going to be. You know, he'll have some big shoes to fill.

Exactly. And no one can. It's like no one can replace, like, a best friend.

Right.

It's like they'll have their own thing. But. And I think that's the other thing, too, is like, don't. Don't forget your friends when you get into relationships.

Yeah.

Okay.

But here's the thing that I'm gonna say. I'm gonna give you permission, on the record.

Okay. No.

Not to forget me, but it's like. But. But I want you to be able to immerse yourself in that experience, in that love bubble, because it happens. It happens to everybody. You know, you get in this. This space of, like, you're with the time. Does not. It's a construct. It does not exist. Right.

Yeah, but you know me. I'm gonna be wanting to be processing.

The whole thing with you.

Well, sure, I'm gonna want to know.

What'S happening at every step of the way, but. But I also feel like, like, your real friends are gonna stick with you.

They're not gonna be like, you have a boyfriend. You forgot about me.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

I think I Think it's, like, also, maybe the reason why our friendship works is we're not. So we don't give rules. You know, there's some friends that are really, like. I've had friends being like, you don't follow up with me enough, or you don't. This, like, they have these, like, tribulations of, like, what they need as a friend. And again, some people, like, really like to, like, communicate that of, like. Like, I expect my friends to be this. Come with me here or to talk to me in this. This amount of time or whatever. We've never been like that.

No, I. I don't. Wow. I. I've never actually heard of that before.

Oh, I've gotten that.

Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah. No, I. I haven't, because I. Probably people know better to. To ask that.

It was. For me, it was young. It was like a college best friend, and interesting. And then in a way, I look, I respect it.

I respect somebody that is willing to say, hey, this is what I need, or, this will make me feel better to know that my feelings are being held in this way or whatever. But that's really interesting. The only thing I ever ask is, don't invite me to anything past a certain time, but keep inviting me because I don't want to feel left out.

I wanted to actually text and invite you, but I'll invite you here on the podcast. Would you like to shake ass in my music video on T for highest self?

Come on.

I need Latinas. I used to make us Latinas.

No, thank you.

I'd ask her formally. I think you'd be really good. You don't have to do much.

Just be a little turkey. When we're at your bachelorette party and you're just like, like, so irritated. You're like, rosie. Just like. And then it's just like, yeah, you.

Just, like, take a step, and it's like, jiggling. I have to do the most. But it's gotten a little.

A little better. No, it's gotten a lot better.

Yes. Now. Now it's almost on your level. Well, guys, I invited. I tried. And it just goes to show, like, with.

I'm like, no. And. And I'm.

But here's the thing. Here's the thing. I keep trying. I keep shooting my shot, and you.

Keep shooting your shot.

And.

And to me, I would hope that you would say, hey, like, you keep saying no to me, I'm gonna, like, get upset.

Yeah. No, I'm like, you know what? May 14, I have another video if you want to Cover that one instead. But that's the beauty. It's like with your friends you can say no. You know. Like you, you have a hard boundary of like you go to sleep at 8pm and I mean I still message you but I don't expect a response, you know.

Yeah, but I. But it's like my morning ritual. Like I see whatever's happening and obviously like to me my biggest thing, it's like in case there ever an emergency or something.

Yeah.

Happens like Tori sleeps with his phone, you know. So it's like you got to just give Tori a call, you know.

Yeah. And I think that's like the beauty of friendships too is like like you and Tori became my little fam. Like I was like living with you guys, heading to the club and coming back late at night eating my munchies. You guys started calling me the bunny rabbit.

No, Tori calls you rabbit. Yeah. Yeah.

So it's like moments like that honestly like we try to hide ourselves in our lives. Like biggest challenges. But if you actually let your friends in, you like create some really fun stories. Like and we learned 2022. Like 2023. Never forget.

Oh yeah, we'll never forget that for sure. And the thing is like I also learned from Tori because you were asking Tori questions. I'm like there's been so many things that I've learned in my own relationship.

I feel closer to Torey. I know deeply about his relational history now. Too much get advice from him and I think that's what's so like cool about actually having friends in different chapters of their lives. Like I love having single friends because we have a lot of the same problems but then sometimes we can spiral together of like there are no men and we're gonna be single forever. And then it's like to have friends that are like in happy long term relationships and just pregnant and different things. And it kind of just gives you a bigger view that like, like life has a lot of seasons and chapters, you know. And we're gonna witness each other in a lot of seasons. And I think if you keep laughing, I think that's what we do. We're laughing all the time that it's like I'm sure we will be like old ladies and still laughing and having fun. And I think that's like the most important thing. It's like friendships, you know, they don't like they always add to you and sometimes the adding to you is like you go really deep or you hold each other's sadness. But like sometimes it's Light. And I just think, think the more full spectrum of friendship can become, like, the richer it is.

Yeah.

And like, with my divorce, we did, like, a lot of friendship shadow work. She brought out your shadow work, and it was, like, a whole thing. And now we're able to, like, be in this more light energy right now, and then, like, the cycle will just, like, continue.

Let's just not go back into the dark too, too quickly, though. I think we had good.

We're just gonna date it. No, I'm kidding. I give her a heart attack when.

I make these jokes. I know. Is it a joke? Joke?

Is it a joke? He looking like a red flag, but my favorite color red. Guys, my next album, who knows? We're going into the underworld.

Oh, have mercy.

Well, Rosie, Rosita, Rocio. Gracias, mi amiga.

Oh. Encantada. Eso placer.

And thank you guys so much for tuning in. I'm sure you got a lot of tidbits just from hearing your own story and little takeaways of how to dive deeper into your own friendships. I think this is a really good conversation to share with someone who's a friend and be like, I really, like, love these two and, like, how they talk and, like, I just want that in my life. Maybe you just, like, send it off like that or, you know, maybe you do have a best friend, but you're like, you guys, like, love each other, but it's just. It's just gone to this, like, meme sending rapport. But, like, you just want to go more, you know? And I feel like the best friendships in life, it's just like, relationships. Like, we could have a bunch of situationships or we could have, like, a really good relationship. And I feel like that's what a best friend is. It provides you with a really great relationship through. Through thick and thin, which is, like, what we're all seeking romantic love for. You have a whole different spectrum of it with the best friendship. So send this episode to people you want to expand your friendship with. And this is a really great conversation starter for so many different topics. And if you loved this episode, please leave a review for it in the Apple store and I will send you as a gift my womb meditation. So just leave a review and take a screenshot of the review and email it over to me@saharaiamsaharose.com you can find that email in the show notes. All right, thank you so much for tuning in, and I'll see you in the next one. Trust your intuition. Trust your inner wisdom. Trust your inner guidance Close your eyes and listen so trust your intuition Trust your inner wisdom Trust your inner guidance.