571: This Is Why Most Relationships Aren't Working (And What To Do Instead) with Teal Swan

There's always energy exchange in every relationship. So the first question that people need to ask themselves is.

In today's episode, we're joined by Teal Swan, international speaker, best selling author, and a woman who turned unimaginable trauma into a journey of healing and empowerment.

If you want my honest truth, I think this is one of the most painful truths that people have to swallow in life, is that a relationship takes two. That's probably the nightmare of all nightmares, is the fact that there's an inherent vulnerability in relationships that when you step into it, it's a dance for two. What I would say to every single person, male or female, you need to get into a relationship with somebody where you are like you. What if they never changed? Could I be with this person in front of me?

How can you inspire them to begin that journey? Is that even possible?

You need a guy with a very large container. Somebody who's like, well, I could own a kitten or I could own a dragon.

Welcome back to the Highest Self podcast. My name is Sahara Rose, and on this podcast I love to take spiritual concepts, especially matters of the heart, and make them really grounded and relatable. Because the truth is, the spiritual journey is not this thing that we have to figure out with our minds and get to the bottoms of and get it and reach enlightenment and ascend and never come back to these human forms. But rather, it's about being here in this human experience, in our bodies, in our wombs, with the soil, with the children, with the dance, with the laughter, with all the beautiful flowers up in the set. Teal just said it's the most feminine set she's ever been on. So I'm going to take that as a compliment. So I'm fangirling and I never fan girl on this podcast because this is, like, probably the only person I take spiritual advice from. I started listening to her YouTube channel at least 10 years ago. Yeah, I was probably my early 20s at the time. And she was the only person I had ever seen make spiritual content online. And I was just like, what are my past lives? What is. What is intergenerational trauma? What is healing? And I kept seeing this, like, gorgeous girl pop up, and I'm just like, who is she? And so I continued to watch, continue to watch. And even till this day, like her, I always tell people, I'm like, teal's views are the freshest. Like, everyone's like, self sabotage. She's like, self sabotage doesn't exist. I'm like, what if you're like, codependency she's like, codependents are the biggest narcissist. I'm like, oh, damn. I just love, just like the truth, the fierceness. Like, if you love my energy, you're going to love her energy. You probably already know her. She is the og. Like, truly, if you're new to the spiritual journey, you gotta start following Teal. And before we drop into this episode, be sure to hit subscribe wherever you're listening to this podcast. That is the best way to stay up to date on the latest episodes. We've got this in video format, so if you're just hearing my voice, be sure to also watch our fabulous outfits on video as well on Spotify, YouTube or the Apple Store. This is the best way to stay in the flow with future conversations and also allows the podcast to reach more people. So hit subscribe so I can keep vibe with you on all future episodes. Now let's get into this one. So without further ado, let's welcome Atil Swan to the Highest Self podcast.

That was a wonderful intro.

Feel like you just need to play that. Just like I am the og Bow down. So before we get into it, what makes you your highest self?

What makes me my highest self? Discipline. Oh, and I know that's probably a funny answer, but I mean, for me, the more intense I am about commitment to whatever it is that I want to be in alignment with, the more in alignment I am with that. Let's call it an oversoul or pre birth intention or there's all kinds of things that are packed into the higher self when we use that word. Usually it's so true.

Because we think of discipline as this external thing. I have to do something that someone else wants me to do. And it's actually, I love the discipline to follow your soul path, you know, because it's so easy for us to know we're going the wrong way. But be like, whatever, I'm just gonna do this round. I'm just gonna see what happens. Do it for the plot. And it's like the discipline to continue to come back to the guidance of your highest self is really what I feel the spiritual journey is about. So you have this new course on ancestral healing which I just went through and I absolutely loved it. And I just shared with you some interesting news I got about my ancestral lineage this week. My parents are in town, it's the Persian. And I found out that I am a direct relative of Prophet Muhammad, which.

Nobody'S surprised about, casually.

And it's interesting because you Know, I was, I was born Muslim, but I never really practiced the religion. I resonate more with ancient Zoroastrian culture, which is like the ancient Persian spiritual lineage prior to Abrahamic religions. But I learned that my grandmother was a direct like relative of his, to the point that in Iran there's a term for it, they're called sayeds. And the government actually like ordains like certain people and you're like a holy person. So like, everyone in my grandmother's lineage were imams, they were like Islamic priests. And I had no idea until last night this was part of my ancestral lineage. And I'm like perfect timing when the ancestral queen is coming on. So in your course you share how a lot of our generational traumas and also gifts come from our ancestry. So if someone's new and this is completely new to them, can you share a little bit more about how our ancestors are impacting our lives today?

Okay, so where I want people to go for this understanding is to understand that before you come down to this physical time, space, reality, let's say you're hanging around in your non physical perspective, what most people call a soul or even higher self, what you're doing is you're surveying these different life path potentials. And a big part of those life path potentials has to do with what family lines you're going to come into. Because a family line has a consciousness and you've got a lot of them. I mean, that's the reality. If you look at how many surnames you have in a family tree, it's like, you know, so you're looking at the consciousness of these family lines as they run through the branches of this tree and you're essentially choosing to come in as the extension of that story. So a family never dies. That's something to understand. There may be individuals that are popping in and out of existence within that family line, but there's a continuous story of a lineage that is going all the way back through the beginning of time and is still going. And you're the one that's making it go. So from these higher dimensional spaces, what's interesting is that it just looks like nothing ever ends or begins. It just keeps going until somebody changes the pattern. Right. So a big thing that we're looking to do when we're looking at these life path potentials that have to do with family lineages is we're looking for both negatives and positives essentially. Now, of course, we could get really complicated with this because there are also negatives to positives and positives to negatives. But if we try to make this concept real simple, let's say that you're looking for some negative patterns that you yourself want to experience and then be the one to change. I have never in my life, especially when I'm in these groups where people are interested and say, what is the higher self? I'm asking questions, kind of the game changers in the family. I've never met a single person, especially in these spaces, that has not come down with a specific intention of their life being to be the game changer for a family pattern. So you're looking to experience those negative things always for a very good reason. You're looking to create changes to the patterns, you being of course, the progression of the family line. And you're also looking to exploit positive traits or positive patterns that have been happening in that family line specifically for whatever life purpose you have chosen before coming down here. Now, for some people, that looks a lot like a career that they've chosen. For other people, it really doesn't. Like when we're talking about purpose, especially relative to the higher self, we need to get complicated because as human beings, we love to whittle it down to a job, but it's a lot more than that. But a lot of your life purpose is down to those positive traits as well. And this is a big mistake that I think a lot of people make with ancestral healing is they make it all about those negative qualities when so much of it is about reowning these positive qualities in a very conscious way and actually using them. Because those are the things you don't really need to work on. You know, it's not like somebody say that comes into a family line of a lot of leaders has to work on leadership. So that's awesome. I mean, it's awesome, especially for those of us that are all into self growth and everything, to finally have those things where it's like, guess what? I don't have to sit down with a workbook and work my ass off at this. So, yeah, so that's like a very fast sort of elevator pitch about these, you know, the picture of us fitting into ancestral trauma. What I want people to understand is that these patterns, they continue until somebody consciously stops them. They just keep repeating and repeating and repeating and repeating. So there could be some decision that a person made, you know, 14 generations ago, it affects the way that they live, it affects the way that they raise their children. And then that one way of being can just be passed and passed and passed and passed. And all of a sudden here you are in the modern day with this out of control train that's been going since, you know, 1700s, 1500s, even earlier. And it's really not benefiting our lives, especially when circumstances change. So it's not until we start to recognize these patterns and consciously change them or consciously own them, if it's a positive pattern that we can really step into alignment with what we chose before coming here, which is to be the progression of our family line. Now, I really understand when people are wanting to almost divorce themselves from negativity in a family line by like saying drastically changing their last names and things like this, especially in abuse scenarios, like, I get it, but I really wish that people understood that you, you did not come here to divorce your family line. Even if you came into an abusive household. That doesn't mean you need to like stay in abusive patterns or whatever. But owning your lineage is super, super important for every single person.

A question I have for you is how do we know if the pattern comes from our childhood or it comes from our ancestral lineage?

I'm not going to be able to give you a satisfying answer for this, and let me tell you why. From a higher dimensional level, that kind of distinction doesn't really exist. At a lower level. What I'm running into is trying to identify a variable that all people could look at and then say, oh, this thing lets me know that it's this versus this. The I can't give you that answer is because you're limited by people's barriers of awareness and awakening. I'll give you an example. If I said something like, well, if you have a phobia that is literally coming out of nowhere and you've never had any interaction with anything like that in your lifetime, then it's probably not you. Well, I could throw salt in that in 10 seconds and be like, well, let's say that it's a fear of an animal or something like that. Let's go really basic. That animal might feel a certain way to you. Like, let's say it's a very powerful animal. Now, if you're somebody who is taught to suppress, deny and disown your own, you would have an issue with that animal just like somebody who had an actual ancestral interaction with that animal. So really the process of weeding out what is ancestry and what is my own personal life, it's really about expanding your awareness, expanding your awareness and expanding your awareness until that knowledge is genuinely there. What I'm really interested in people Being conscious of, though, is that thoughts around past lives and thoughts around even ancestry can become a, call it a scapegoat for what somebody has gone through in their own individual lives is especially true when we've been damaged by people who we're very close to. We don't want to admit to the fact that that has happened with somebody with whom we need to maintain a relationship or feel like we need to maintain a relationship. So it can very easily be like a, you know, almost like a bypass. And I want people to stop doing this, whether it's with, you know, the, the whole concept of past lives, the whole, or even the whole concept of, you know, ancestral traumas.

And we even chose our parents and chose those childhoods to play out those ancestral traumas so we can finally clear them and see like the microcosm of what it's like in this lifetime.

Both you and I saying that, being clearly aware that it doesn't feel like, oh, yay, I chose this. It's awful. You know, some of these things where we chose it, maybe at this soul based level, it doesn't really.

Add, I.

Think, to our personal pain that we're going through in the moment. Like, there comes a point in healing where you look back and you're like, okay, I can see why I chose that, but I don't feel like it does a lot of good for us to even be like, oh, well, I chose it. And so that somehow makes the pain better of this horrible situation that I'm finding myself in these repetitive patterns over and over again.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And the womb, it's almost like the womb, it has nothing to do with you as a woman. It has to do with, you're going to bear my children. And in Middle Eastern culture, a woman's name is mother of her son. She doesn't even have a name, really. So you're once. Once you get married, you're the wife of this and then the mother of that. So you don't even actually exist as person. It's just the roles that you play. And, you know, now going further and further down this journey, I realized so deeply how, you know, child marriage was in my entire lineage and is actually a very Islamic thing. It is written in there and something that a lot of people don't look at and talk about. But if you do have a lineage from the Middle EAs, India, Africa, child marriage is part of your family history. And it is important to look at that because there can be this subconscious programming of even your youth. Your beauty, your vitality is a commodity to get resources, safety, security from someone else. And it's actually. And then for the man as well. And it's being played out even in those of us who are awake. And it's actually like an undercurrent, I would say, in most relationships, like this transaction of women's youth and beauty for man's money.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep.

So I'm curious, like, for you, what have you seen being some of these major patterns being played out right now and how I feel like collectively, especially in relationships, we're, we're choosing to step away from them. But so much of us only knows love as that.

Oh yeah, right now. I mean, this is one of the reasons that I did this course when I did it is because so much of what we're watching in terms of this macrocosmic level of breakdown within society has to do with these ancestral patterns. One of the biggest being, of course, the way that we have relationships and we could take a microscope and kind of like zoom in on certain cultures, but if I was to zoom out and globalize this whole thing, human relationships have been in a pattern of dysfunction over the course of history. They've been getting progressively worse, in fact, because I'm very vocal about the fact that as a species, if you want to look way back towards the root of our ancestry, we're tribal. And we've been trying to live these incredibly, you know, separated, segregated individual lives, which is not natural for us. So we're needing a drastic overhaul where we're ruining the, the positive aspects of our, our humanity, like as a human family, right? We're trying to re own those positive aspects of our innate biology and what's natural for us at the same time as do away with a lot of these patterns that we've had. Like, transaction is one of those elements in relationship. Like energy exchange is something which we're in the process of needing to exalt. So there will always be an energy exchange. But how do we make that a conscious thing? How do we make that something that we actually want to do? You know, because it looks like you said you brought this up, where this is really is an issue no matter where you go in the world. That's kind of like as a woman, your only worth is youth and beauty. So that essentially becomes like, do we really want to give that to a person? Is that really what we want to be playing with? Or is that a terrifying game? Because at a certain point it's like I feel it slipping away, you know. So as women, it's like, you know, we are in a space where it's. What is it that we really want to, to offer as an energy exchange in a relationship? And that can look very unique according to each woman's desires and each woman's aptitudes and each woman's whatever, right? Because the divine feminine, of course, is expressing itself in very different ways through different women. And the same can be said of men. Like we're almost more having a conversation right now. About what it is for a woman, but like, men too. Like, what is it that you want to offer a relationship? What is it that you have to bring to the table that you actually like giving? Because there has to be some element of enjoyment in what you're offering, not just that you're getting something as a result of it.

So how can we redefine that if we're like, okay, I don't want to do the typical. I'm the housewife, you're the provider. These are our roles. We don't want to be role mates. We want to transition into soulmates. But, like, how do we come across? Because you said there is an inherent value exchange in relationships, no matter what, always.

Okay, so what I'm wanting is for people to understand that the love element, like the. We could call it love and trust. Right. That is over here. That's one element of a relationship. Another element of relationship is energy exchange. So what we're looking to do is to master these two quadrants in relationships. You can have one without the other, you know, quite easily. And then it usually doesn't go so well. Right. But why I'm focused a lot on people getting into conscious transaction. This is where we're going to go with our conversation is because there's always energy exchange in every relationship. So it's very important for us to get into that as consciously as we can. So the first question that people need to ask themselves is, what do I love giving? What is it that I love giving? That even if I never got anything really back for it or something else for it, I really, I'm fed by giving.

But a lot of us female, and I can speak for myself, what I love to give is I love to help people find their meaning with their lives with this. So I end up being the healer in all of my relationships.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So.

But I love doing it. But then I'm like, is this me overcompensating? And I know a lot of people listening to this resonate.

So do you love doing it in a. In a relationship, though?

It's almost like I can't help myself. I'm like, oh, I can see how I could really benefit your life. And I just start. And then I do think I do get resentful of being in the role.

Okay.

But it's almost like I'm doing it because I want them to come up to the level that I want them to be at. Okay.

Yeah, I get it.

Therapy session with Teal.

No. Well, I mean, it's always Better for me when I've got, like, a tangible example. Yeah, yeah. The dynamic that you're talking about is a very big issue. And it has been for women across, you know, time, especially when they gain any power, they can attract unhealed little boys. Right.

And I wouldn't say it's that, but it's almost like I have. My gift is seeing people's highest selves, seeing people's dharma. So it's almost impossible for me, even in friendship, to not offer that. But I think a lot of us women, once we start doing that in relationships, we're told the feminine needs to just be in receiving. So there's this question of, like, should I even. Yeah. So I'm curious your take on this. That the feminine must always. Because.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. So receptivity is a major, major element of feminine. Right. But when a woman goes into that receptive state, she becomes a producer at a level that is so far beyond what people can imagine is crazy. That's where creative force comes from. That's why she gives birth to everything. So it's, like, strange to say she just always has to stay in that state. There will always be a. And so you know, from that state of receptivity. No, like, women are intensely giving, crazy giving.

Well, we're told, like in online, like, relational advice, that as a woman, you should always be in your receptive energy. And that's going to get you that high value female treatment that you're desiring. And if you start going into giving, you're going to start turning into his mom, and then you're going to be the pick. Misha. That's the term that they're using. Like, you're a pick me. And he's going to use you as the Bob the Builder wife until he can find his dream girl.

Not if you can set boundaries. This just sounds like a conversation about boundaries needs to happen. We need to have a talk that looks like this. When a woman gets into a conscious energy exchange as a result of being in a state of receptivity, which will naturally happen, by the way. Every woman listening to this knows that when she's in a situation where somebody's feeding her with energy, she can't help but give. So it's not even like we can prevent this. So when a woman gets into a conscious energy exchange, she really needs to know what is a yes and what is a no for her. And if you want my honest truth, this is what has been taken from women, regardless of what culture it Is that we're looking at. Over the course of history, they have convinced women to not have a no and to not have a yes and to not have a self. And when you bring that selfhood into it, it's easier for a woman to set the, you know, boundaries without this absolute terror of, oh, if I do this, there's going to be just, like, these massive consequences for me. Meaning that we're already approaching relationships as women from this attitude of there is no space for a me in the relationship. And that's what we got to change very quickly.

So what advice do you have for someone who's listening and maybe she's in a relationship with a man, and she sees a lot of potential in him, and he has a good heart, but maybe he's not fully living his dharma. He's not like, don't get into it. Yeah. Okay. So you would say, wait for the person who's 10 out of 10, everything on your list, or does that even exist?

No. 10 out of 10, your list doesn't exist. But this is where it's very important for us to know what consequences we can choose. But what I would say to every single person, male or female, is if you meet somebody, you need to get into a relationship with somebody where you are like, you know, what if they never changed? Never changed one iota after this day, could I be with this person in front of me? Because you have no control over making that person that thing. And especially for people who are really good at seeing potentials or really attached to potentials. Just because you see somebody's potential does not mean they are going to choose into it. That's something that somebody either does or doesn't do based on their free will. And it is very hard to swallow that truth. So given that you can't control whether somebody steps into their potential, you better be okay with the person who's in front of you today.

Yeah. Because I feel we're all potential at all times because we're always moving, but we can't control the direction in which that person moves. And I do feel it's sort of like that codependency actually being a covert narcissism tactic of, like, I'm going to support you and support you so you can become my dream. So I feel right now just. It is a huge conversation. And what I see happen a lot with women is they do become aware of these ancestral, like, you know, whether it's child marriage, whether it's abuse in their lineage, alcoholism in their lineage, a lot of Single moms, single working moms that had to do everything. So they're becoming aware, but often their partners are not. Can we do the ancestral trauma work for the relationship, or does it take two?

It takes two. If you want my honest truth. I think this is probably the most. One of the most painful truths that people have to swallow in life is that a relationship takes two. I know I say that, and I was like, yeah, I get it, Teal. But like, no, you don't get it. Like, that's probably the nightmare of all nightmares is the fact that there's an inherent vulnerability in relationships that when you step into it, it's a dance for two. You can show up. And I encourage and teach people to show up dancing the best dance they can possibly dance. That does not put you in a position where you can dance good enough for the both of you.

So let's say that person is unaware of their ancestral trauma. How can you inspire them to begin that journey? Is that even possible?

Yeah, I mean. I mean, as women, we can't. Or, I mean, we could talk about men too, but, like, as women, we really can't underestimate our degree of influence on whatever we're in touch with. Like, we have a very, very powerful energy. So, you know, the first element that I would look at when it comes to influencing is what we ourselves are doing when we are doing the work and healing and having these big discoveries. It's very difficult for people on the outside of that to watch those shifts and not go, gosh, I kind of want some of this myself. Of course, let's say that you do run into a circumstance like that. It's really down to each woman as to how much pressure she wants to put on her partner. And by pressure, I mean boundaries. You know, some women are going to be like, you know, I'm okay with these sort of energy exchanges that I have in my relationship. I don't necessarily need this person to catch up to me in this way. And I'm still getting a lot out of this relationship, and I'm still happy in this relationship. Where we start to run into trouble is when, you know, we've got these ancestral patterns going on with our partner, and they're ruining our life at that point. It's like, you know, I'm going to say, set a seriously firm boundary.

So a lot of women I know have gotten to that point of, I'm going to walk away, but then the man is, like, kind of left with, where do I go? You know, like, what is the Work to be done, and not just for a man, for a woman. Because I think a lot of people just, they go to therapy or they'll go to AA or something like that. And that's not necessarily like ancestral healing work.

Yeah. I mean, obviously, I would direct everybody to my channel.

Yeah. So you share about parts work.

Yeah. Parks work is one of my absolute favorite things that people can do. When I think of, I mean, there's so many different avenues that a person could really walk down. The most important element is that they're really, really looking at themselves. Like really deeply looking at themselves. Not in this disconnected, abstract way where we talk about the issue with alcoholism. We want to put ourselves or, you know, put our partners in this position, if they're willing, putting them in a position where they've got somebody who's really dragging them deep into answering the difficult questions about them. Okay. Do you recognize that you have this pattern where in a relationship you chronically shut down? Okay. The person says, yes, I recognize this. Well, when did that start? Who did you watch do that? Like this. This deep kind of pointed digging work where you have to really look at yourself in the mirror is where people need to go. And not all therapists are doing that.

So do you feel just the awareness of where it came from is enough to heal it?

No. He'll know. Man, wouldn't that be wonderful? No. That's why I feel like, you know, a lot of people are asking me, I want to know the difference between what I've gone through and what my ancestors went through. As if it's a kind of, well, I know. And so now it's done. No, hell no. It's about the awareness just gives you more information with which you can then take action on. That's it. So it still requires us looking at the pattern, consciously changing the pattern, changing the, you know, the thought thoughts that we're thinking, changing our actions. All of that is necessary. It's necessary to exert a kind of a free will over our participation in something that is no longer working.

So let's say a woman's pattern is she comes from a lineage of single moms, like a friend of mine. In her family, it's almost the opposite of mine, that there is never a man around. And so the women were the strong ones. They were the heads of the household, but they had to work the farms and take care of the kids and do everything on their own. So she's almost like hyper independent, avoidant personality. So someone like her, where would she begin? This level of healing. Would it be to own that that's her gift in this lifetime, that I can be very independent, or would it be to, you know, who knows what's right?

You know, I'm okay with people owning that the adaptations that their family has made has put them in a position of strength where some women would be breaking down. This sounds like a woman who's able to really step in and step up, up. But if she's at a point where this is damaging her life, you got to change that pattern. And at that point, you have to look at your contribution to the pattern. So you've got the male contribution to that pattern. But what are. The only thing we really have a lot of control over is what we are doing in terms of that pattern. So if. Let's say that I'm looking back at my behavior in relationships, let's say that I always am walking around with this air of independence. I know that I lead with an air of independence. Well, I start to become aware that air of independence that I keep giving off. Maybe it's the clothes that I'm wearing. Maybe it's, you know, even wearing high heels sometimes. A lot of women think that's super feminine, right? No, no, no. That's actually interesting because a lot of women who have, like, power issues will get on high heels. Why? Because it puts them up. So they're essentially leading with this I am very powerful thing. And so the men who would want to step in and really be there for a woman are kind of getting pushed away. And the men who are wanting to step in on that are like, oh, she's gonna take all the responsibility, Right? So I'm becoming aware of, like, say, the way I'm dressing, the way that I'm walking, the way that I'm talking. What is my behavior when a man opens a door for me or something? Am I the kind of person who goes to pay the bill, you know, when they bring the bill to the table? I'm watching how the patterns that I'm exhibiting are bringing about the very thing that I am hating. And then I am changing those patterns. And it's more complicated than just, oh, it's not working for me to wear these clothes. I'm wearing different clothes because even taking those steps can be so intensely threatening. And they will be. They will be. Why? Because those were the coping mechanisms that kept us alive and our grandmas alive and our great grandmas alive. So inherent in these changes is this very scary, very vulnerable place of being pushed to the limit of vulnerability. Actually, yeah.

That's really interesting to think of the way that we're dressing, our mannerisms, our tone of voice, and who that's attracting subconsciously.

Oh, yeah. I had a whole meltdown about this. You love this story. Let's get personal, shall we? I wish we should have. This should have been something that somebody filmed. So I'm in New York City. I think it was either New York or San Francisco. I'm basically sitting there and I'm staring at this giant, like, printout that we have of me walking in the door. So my team has done this promo for a future event. So I've got an 8 by 10 foot teal right in front of me. I sent the people who were at the workshop off to do an exercise and I'm sitting there in front of my own image and I'm like, this is awful. Everyone's like, what's going on? The teal right now. I'm like, you guys, look at me. I'm just. I'm coming across like this big scary teacher goddess. I'm a sub in relationships. This is a disaster. And so I'm having this little. This mini meltdown about the fact that my entire public career, which, by the way, is not even put on. It's because, of course I put a lot of energy into this. Is this some kind of a coping mechanism for me? Is this not really authentic? The problem is this is very authentic in one sentence setting. Right, right. That's not what I want in a relationship. So, you know, then it becomes, okay, well, how do I do this in my career? Knowing that my public image is the exact opposite of what I like in my personal life and at the same time try to, in my personal life attract something that's entirely.

You're speaking to my soul right now. Well, I think that's what's so hard for women, especially with social media of like our. Oftentimes our social media is related to our careers. So it's that image that we're putting out in our career, which often we're not putting out. Like, I'm a sub in my career. Like, no, we're leaders, we're visionaries, we're teachers, we're healers. But then oftentimes, like, social media is the first thing someone sees when they. Or they just meet you or a dating app. That's all they see. And then they're seeing your work self, which is not at all what you want to be. And it's so hard.

Oh, yeah.

I'm like, do I need to Make a separate, personal Instagram that's just like, you know, my. My true inner core self, but that feels like hiding a part of myself as well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So have you found the advice? So what do we do?

Well, I have, but, I mean, did.

You change your pictures?

No, I. I feel like every. For. Is this gonna be a different sort of answer for every woman? Like, for me, I've gone much more heavily into the kink community because, you know, the kink community has the capacity, more so with what I'm looking for, to open up to these strange dynamics, but in a very overt way. So it's not. It's not the same kind of experience on a basic kind of a dating level where you just. I don't know how to quite put this, but I want something weird. I mean, everybody kind of knows in the kink community, okay, you're wanting something weird. What is it you're wanting? And you tell people, this, this is what I want. It's the exact opposite of, you know, the sort of God the goddess is actually. I don't know if you know this, but it'll be fun for you to know this. Now, goddess worship is actually an element of the kink community. So without knowing it, me and my public career, I've actually fallen into a kink, and it's the exact opposite one that I want.

I love a praise kink, though.

You do?

You don't? Well, you probably just get so much of it, but I'm like, no, tell me how amazing I am.

I don't care very much of it.

But I do feel the kink thing is real because a lot of us women who are leaders in our careers, we want to be more sub in our relationships.

Big time. Yeah, big time. So, I mean, it's about finding a guy who's not threatened by that second side. But I have been trying over the course of last many years, even not relating to dating, trying to get people to expand, to be able to hold polarity. If we are a person who has such a stark difference between our professional life and personal life in terms of our desires, we need to find somebody who's able to hold dichotomy. So for me, like, I'll just tell you what I figured, right. The type of dom. Sub relationship that I am looking for in my personal life is very unique. It's not like, oh, I would like to go be in somebody's house and be underneath them and in their life. It's much more like, I have a giant life. I Need a man to step into that life, and I need him to enable my career. And that's the way of being essentially ahead of me or in charge or in the dom position is. Is leading me into more of doing this.

Yeah. And I do feel that is a deep feminine desire.

Oh, yeah.

Of someone who can help you become more of your full expression. Be that rock who's like, I want more of you. Bring. Bring it online.

So you need, with a very large container, somebody who's like, well, I could own a kitten or I could own a dragon. I'll do dragons.

But here's what I come across like, oftentimes as women, we are attracted to these. Also, like, more like alpha. Like a man who's a dom is like a very alpha man, but then often they have their own career and focus and things like that. So it's like to find that happy medium of someone and they can totally have their own thing going on too. But like, also wants to. To support your vision, but still, especially sexually, be the dom, you know? So do you feel, and this is a question for kind of everyone, that a woman can be with a man who maybe he's not, like, as further along on his mission than she is? Because a lot of people listening to this podcast are very mission focused, but maybe where he shows up is adding value into her mission.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, this is a definite thing. And what's sad to me is that society itself doesn't really recognize the value of men who do that. But a coach is a perfect example of somebody who does that. It's somebody who steps in with an athlete, another person, and creates a very large container and a lot of leadership and a lot of support, but they're actually in that dominant position. If you watch a coach with an athlete, which one's in charge? But that's interesting because that's a person who stepped into the life of this other person and is feeding their energy into their success. A lot of it is about our own mind. It's about a man stepping into a woman's life and saying, you know what? I'm going to take some positive ownership of this. And that does not need to decrease a man's personal worth.

Oh, I feel like that's what true masculine leadership is, is to be able to direct that shakti energy into something so much greater. And I feel a lot of us spiritual women, we have all of these gifts, but we sometimes lack that, like structure and discipline and management and fund finances and all of those things that, you know, so many power couples that you see out there, like Gabby Bernstein, all these people, their husbands work in their companies full time and it's like, that's how it got so big. It's, it's beyond. I feel what one woman or one person can do on their own. But our society almost makes men feel like if you don't have your own separate thing going on, then you're a little bitch.

Yeah, yeah. And I totally disagree. Yeah, I feel like it's very masculine to be able to step into, you know, a mission that's very successful. Maybe that mission is organized around a specific woman and to provide those missing elements so as to enable her to become more.

Yeah. And then they can co create something between the two of them. So I also feel for women, a lot of us are rewiring our attraction. And a lot of our attraction does come from ancestral traumas. You know, like maybe in your family you've always had like alcoholics who leave or very domineering men or something like that. That is this subconscious attraction. So how can we become wary of that? And again, like, how much of that must we overco.

We need to overcome all of it. I'm going to tell you, I don't.

Get to keep my. No.

Yeah, well, you can, but you don't want to.

It's not working.

Okay, attraction. First, let's talk about attraction. Attraction happens because of what we suppress, deny and disown in ourselves. I know that does not sound romantic, but it's the reality. Because attraction is really about polarity. You got a positive and a negative side of a magnet. It goes, bam, Right? So really what we're attracted to on the external is what we're suppressing and denying and disowning on the inside. Why do we suppress, deny and disown is the question. The answer is the relationships in our early life. So we're always. Because we're dealing with our parents in that picture or whoever raised us, we're always dealing with ancestral trauma then. Okay, so we need to try to recognize what are the patterns that took place in my family that made me suppress, deny and disown this thing and therefore be attracted to. Oh, look, a repeat of my family. A way to make this more easy for people to understand is that in your childhood environment it looked a certain way, both functional and dysfunctional. And we had to make adaptations so as to fit into that. The adaptations that we made to fit into that make it so that the only relationships that we make sense in and feel empowered in are the Very ones that mirror our childhood environments. So there's this compulsion towards that familiarity because of the fact that we've adapted ourselves that way. We've essentially molded ourselves into a puzzle piece where the only puzzle we fit into is the specific puzzle that we may not want to fit into anymore. Right. But it. I'll go out with like a girl, say she's in this pattern where she keeps having men that leave her and I will watch a perfectly available man come up and give her energy and she'll be like, not registering it as a clique. What she registers as a click is the guy who's like, I got no time for you. Because she's like, oh, I know how to fit into this. Oh. And also I've got this subconscious agenda that I really want daddy to love me, which who never did. Rather than letting go of the connection with dad, which is painful, comes with grief and everything and then, you know, going in the direction of somebody who we may not have been attracted to before. But this also comes with the ownership of the aspects of ourselves that we've suppressed and denied as a result of that relationship. So let's say we've got a unavoidable, you know, dad. We could say, okay, what do I, what have I suppressed by virtue of being with a father like that? That maybe I have suppressed the side of me that is needy potentially because he was never there to give it to me. Or maybe I haven't suppressed that at all. Maybe I've suppressed my independence. It'll be different based on every single circumstance. So if we figure out what it is that we have suppressed and gotten rid of in that process of adaptation, we can really work consciously on reowning those aspects. And then what we watch because we are more taking in that aspect of ourselves, in fact, that we've disconnected from and separated from. We start to notice that the landscape of our attraction changes. Suddenly we're looking at a man that before we would have been like, eh. And we're like, you know, are you.

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And.

And I made that normal of like, oh, well, if a man had so much time for me, he must not be doing anything important. Oh, but then the story is, I am not important.

Yep.

So, you know, and I was able to sustain myself in a relationship where this person was very successful but always working. And I'm like, he's doing what a man's supposed to do. But the way that. And how you said I suppressed the part of me that was needy of like. And I won't have any need from him.

Yep.

I will take care of myself. I will be with my friends. I will make a very full life and a full career and a full everything. So then whenever he's available for me, I'll be ready and perfect. And the trophy daughter and now the trophy wife for him.

Y.

And then I recognize, like, I don't want that at all. And like, the purpose of my career success is not so I could have someone like, doing their own thing. And we're just roommates, you know, but it's so we can co create and, and it's been so interesting because the beginning part of my single journey, my attraction was still back at those same kind. Like, almost like I looked up to them. I want to be them muses, you know, it's like, I want to be you. So maybe I should try to date you. And then as I would. Exactly.

That's the suppression of your own significance.

Exactly. And it was like, specifically for like, people who made the kind of music that I wanted to make, you know, and then as I started to make that music, it was like that attraction completely went away. And now even people that I met last year that I was not interested in at all because I was like, I don't know, they're like, I don't know, not doing big important things out in the world, you know, but they're very emotionally available and always messaging me. And now I'm interested in these kind of People. Which just shows in one year.

What? Yay.

I'm healing. But it's also hard, I'll be honest, because I do feel a lot of us women, we want to be with someone that's inspiring to us. So that's the thing I keep coming across of, like, okay, there are definitely people that, like, are there. They're emotionally available. They want to pour into me. But then I'm not, like, super inspired by them. But then the people I'm very inspired by have their own busy thing going on.

I have never had the desire to be with somebody I'm inspired by.

That's kind of interesting.

I'm trying to relate to this.

I want to, like, look at you like a God.

I don't know. We're gonna have to table that one, because I gotta think about that.

Yeah, I think it's, like, that feminine. Like, I also see, like, sexuality is very, like, devotional. So it's like I want to look at my partner as, like, someone that I would, like. Like, want to devote myself to. And for me, that would have to be someone I'm inspired by in some kind of way. It doesn't need to be, like, creatively inspired by, but, like. Yeah. Like, inspired by his ability to, I guess. Yeah. Create. And probably because my dad, to me, was always very inspiring, and his grandfather and my family was always, like, really big visionaries.

Like you.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So it's like. But then I think part of me doesn't want to, like, limit myself or settle for someone that I don't feel is my equal.

Okay.

So I'm curious your take on this, because I know a lot of us women, we are, like. We can sometimes look at men who. Yeah, we want to be like. And that might not be the best partner for us.

No, it's probably the worst partner on earth for a person. Right. In fact, this is changing a lot because as I'm talking more and more about finding true compatibility in relationships, we're coming away from the Disney model. I don't know if you remember this old scene from Fantasia. I used to love it as a kid. But there's this scene from Fantasia where you've got these, like, centaurs. Right? Right. And it starts off with the men in this, like, really triumphant symphony piece where it's very loud and they're, like, very proud. And each one is a different color. And the whole theme of this thing is each one finding the female of their color. And towards the end, you've got this blue one who's Just by himself and the blue girl who's by herself and they finally find each other and it's like, same, same, same, same. No, actually the recipe of sameness is one of the worst ways to find compatibility in a relationship. And this is. Is more and more true the more successful people get.

Okay, so what instead could we be.

Looking for a puzzle piece? Symbiosis is what you're looking for. Remember that the energy exchange that we're talking about, symbiosis is separate from the practice of love and the building of trust. That's a whole separate thing. But if we're just looking at energy exchange, you have to look at what it is that I offer that genuinely is taken in by this person or genuinely wanted. Now, when you're watching people who are, let's say that they're more on the normal end of the spectrum. I don't mean normal in this sense as an insult. What I mean more is they can fit more into the society because they can kind of straddle the fence a little bit more. It's easier to have transactions be about, I provide you this and you provide it for me also. And there'd be some kind of elements of I provide this and you provide this totally other thing. What we watch when people go up the ranks for success is they devote their energy more and more toward, towards one venue. Otherwise you can't really succeed. I know that people hate when I say this, but you can't spread yourself thin across all of these venues and be super, super successful at this one thing you're streamlining yourself towards. The more you streamline yourself towards that, and the more success you gain in that, the more you have to really, really look for opposite resources. So at that level where people are really coming up into their power, you start to see more of a striation effect happen. Where all of a sudden what's really making their relationships work is that they offer each other drastically different things. Drastically different things. And I'm going to even go further than that and say that if you, if you're a person with a real mission, male or female, and you've got something where you're really going for the top of the top in it, right? Whether it's sports or whether it's politics or whatever it is, you know, a business, you're going to be funneling so much of your energy into that that a lot of the exchange you need to be looking for is, is somebody who gets their needs met in an almost vicarious, roundabout way. I got an example let's say that somebody is really fed by the concept of purpose. And whatever you're doing is something that offers a lot of purpose. That person is getting a lot of energy out of what they're lending their energy to. And you're essentially meeting their needs in a roundabout way rather than, well, you're going to dedicate yourself to me and my purpose, and then I'm going to cook you dinner at night. Night. It's more complicated. It looks more like a chain that feeds back into the person rather than it looking like this sort of figure 8 dynamic. I give you this, you give me this, I give you this. So this. Even the structure of the exchanges will start to shift the more intense this whole lifestyle gets for a person.

Yeah. I think that's why we see a lot of these celebrity couples don't work.

Oh, yeah.

Because it's like they're both powerhouses, stars front and center. That they're almost, like, competing for the same thing.

Oh. That's why when anybody uses the word power couple, I cringe. I cringe about that.

But we were, like, trained to want that.

Well, it doesn't work. Why? Because a power couple finds themselves very quickly in a position where they have the same needs and they offer the same things. So it turns into. Let's say that you're with a guy who's like, you know, he's a power guy. He's like, let's go on a trip around the world. You're like, I can do that myself. And he'll be like, oh, I really need support right now. I need somebody to be there for me. And you're like, so do I. So it becomes a really poor exchange. In fact, because of that same Z's thing kind of makes it so that. That you need the same things and offer the same things, which you don't need. So.

Yeah. And they say in every relationship, there's the kite and the rock. And the kite is the one that's like soaring, you know, the star front and center, and the rock is like the foundation. And oftentimes people who are kites, we're attracted to other kites. Cause it's interesting. We can talk for hours, and it's really stimulating. But then there's no rock. And then the kites just go separate ways. And maybe a rock and a rock would just be too, like, mundane and boring. So they need the kite to kind.

Of lift them up.

But, yeah, I definitely want to, in the future, go for more of the rocks. But I think it is hard Because I am such a, like, I'm so stimulated by like depth and conversation. I know a lot of spiritual women do. Like I have friends that are in really long term successful relationships with rock guys, but they've had to given up on. He's not gonna, you know, go on a yoga retreat with me. He's not gonna wanna talk about past lives. But you know what, he takes care of the house and he shows up and he's loyal and, and that's maybe more than enough.

Yeah, I feel like each woman has to answer that question for themselves.

Right.

With every single person you're gonna get positive and negatives. You're gonna have to choose essentially your consequences. And I think one of the big injustices that we have here is that we've been fed this idea that it's possible to find a relationship where there is no contrast. No, you're gonna be signing up for contrast. But that means each one of us has to evaluate what contrast we can and can't sign up for. What is gonna be a. Yeah, I probably would prefer it a different way if I wrote the story, but this is something I'm still fulfilled by this in a very deep way. And I'm not lying to you or myself. Right way. Yeah. I mean, all of us basically have to choose what it is that we're willing to go through and willing to deal with and willing to be workable about. But that does not mean we can be workable in areas we can't be workable. So if we're going to be in a situation where something is genuinely causing us pain, that's a no. And a lot of women love to get lost in this. It's like, well, I just think my standards are too high. That is the case for people who have serious intimacy issues, who don't want to get close, who don't want to get vulnerable. But it's become like this smokescreen, I would say for a lot of women who are in relationships that are genuinely not satisfying and they're like, maybe I'm just too picky. No, no, no. There is some very valid things here, like boxes he doesn't check and you're not happy because that box is not checked. So you have the option to essentially get yourself into a different arrangement if he's not going to be workable in those areas, or add, which is where we're going to see humanity headed. If you want my honest truth.

Where do you mean? Like in adding what people?

Where I see everybody going, especially with the Gen Z, I See people going in the direction where they're straying away from monogamy and those dynamics are going to be less and less and less common. What I mean by this is that when we've got somebody in our life, it's very easy to get, get into pain when that's our only relationship or only source for a specific relationship. When it feels like they don't check a lot of these boxes that are very important for us. So you'll see a lot of people in the future here who, when they get into that type of dynamic, they're going to keep that person in that role because they serve that function and add somebody else who offers that other element. Of course, to do that, it's not just going to be a simple feat because we're going to have to disconnect our very painful self concept from monogamy basically in order to step into that. And that's not an easy feat. But. Yeah.

So do you see it transitioning into like genuine polyamory where we have multiple significant relationships or it's more like a primary partner and it's a little bit open to meeting new people?

Both. It's going to be very confusing. For one is the answer as people try to navigate the landscape of not being in a traditional relationship as it's been sold to us since the 1920s, 1700s, what am I doing way before, you know. Yeah, for sure.

It's really interesting because right now there's the rise of the situationships. I'm sure you've heard this word before.

That's what we're in, right? We are in the situationships. Yeah, but I mean, what do people mean by that? Because some people are like, well, it's not really a relationship, but you're still kind of doing things to get together. When I'm using that word, what I mean is the relationship defies contention. So it's basically broken the structure, the traditional structure that somebody would expect in a relationship. And we're going to be headed more towards that than ever before. I mean, in a scary way where suddenly we're going to be having to question everything in terms of our assumptions of the relationships that somebody has and what role does this person serve versus what I have been sort of expecting them to fulfill. Because we've got the definition of what a relationship relationship should look like and we try to cram people into the box and it's not going to work anymore.

Yeah, I feel the situationship, the definition of it is kind of like you and this person are talking Maybe, maybe you're doing couple like things. You're dating, you're having sex, but there's no label on it. However, this can often be painful and it's general, generally more painful for the woman because there's a lack of communication.

That's what you mean? Yeah. Don't gag me. This is, this is a whole other thing. So drop the conversation I just had, okay? Your definition of situationship, what you mean by that and what probably most people mean by that. Now, this is disgusting. What I'm watching here is a generation that does not want to take responsibility in relationships. That's a whole different thing. Like, that's a whole different conversation.

And I think, and I think what the difference is the communication and the intentionality. I feel why people get into situationships is, you know what? I don't really fully choose you, but I don't want to tell you that. So I want to keep you around until I find someone better. But the thing is I have these impossible standards, so that person will never come. And then we just kind of settle for these breadcrumbs because we don't want to be alone.

It's making non commitment. Okay, okay.

So then where is that line between openness and non commitment?

Well, we have to look at ourselves as to why we're shying away from commitment or what we're getting out of openness. And then we need to lead with that foot. In situationships, we are not leading with that foot. If we're going to be a person who is not going to give certain things in a relationship, we need to step in saying that, that, and I mean aggressively.

So, so let's say you start talking to someone, you start dating, and they're saying, you know what, I don't want to put a label on it. I just kind of want to see where things go. I'm really focused on myself right now, but I like hanging out with you.

Then you have to ask yourself, am I okay with this being the way it stays? You know, if I'm a woman who's been presented with that, let's just assume I'm a woman who's been presented with that. I'm going to literally do that deep dive. And I mean a real deep one. Would I be okay with this if this is how it stayed? If not, I'm getting into this for potential. I've already said that's dangerous. So basically, if I'm not okay with that, I'm going to walk up and say, yeah, I'm not looking for that. I'm actually looking for serious stuff. So just so you know, if I get into this relationship, I will expect that from you. I'm going to basically put pressure back. If he goes, that's my answer. All right, well, go ahead. If you are more interested in getting into a deep relationship at any point, feel free to see if I'm free.

Yeah. And I feel that so many women have not asked themselves that question and said okay to it. So then men are like, if you do, if you do have that more serious conversation, they're like, they back away.

Let em. I know. It's easier said than done. Okay. When I say that, I'm not like, oh, guys, it's so easy. No, it's horrible. I never encourage people doing horrible coping mechanisms, but I totally get the gallon of Haagen Dazs ice cream move after that one. Okay. So it's so important as a woman that we stop getting into relationships based off of a man's potential. Especially being in this mentality where we think we can love them into wanting it. Are you really a woman who wants to do backflips and back bends for a man to do what you want him to do?

A lot of men feel, I don't know if I want to be a relationship with you, so I want to hang out and see what happens. I'm just being that right now.

Are you okay with that? Do you agree? I mean, some women might be like, I want to. I don't know either. Yeah, I would like to check him out. But I mean, the guys who you come on. I mean, we're having this conversation like women are idiots. Like when a guy comes up to you and says this, you know, whether he's a guy who genuinely wants to fill you out to see whether it's going to become more or whether it's a guy who's like, just so you know, I'm into casual. You can read it.

So then how can we have this like conscious non monogamous relationship that's also not this.

If you want to step into non monogamy.

Well, not me personally. We've had this conversation, but I'm like, jill, I can't do it. But I do. Like, I understand the concept of it. Of like, yes, we lived in tribes and there definitely was not like a marriage structure then and it was a lot more open. But I also feel that when women are like, I feel what happens often is when there's an open relationship, it's the man who's with multiple women and not the woman as much. And sometimes women convince themselves to be okay with these open relationships because they want to maintain the relationship.

Awful. No, like awful. Like if I was sitting in front of a woman like that, I'd be like, what are you doing? I understand what you're doing, but what are you doing? Because this is not what you want. So if you're really wanting to be, you know, a woman who's in a position where you want a man to be in that very monogamous dynamic, do not settle for anything else. That's the boundary thing. This is the issue with women. It's like, like they set a boundary for themselves. But that boundary is like, it's so flimsy. You know, there's this great meme which is like me setting boundaries with others. And it's a person who's standing at the shoreline, you know, where the waves crash in and is just like putting nails in the sand, but like with these giant three foot gaps where the water's just coming straight through it. And that is exactly how it is when I'm watching the majority of women, when I'm very serious, when I'm saying a boundary is a boundary, a no is a no. And that means you don't get to be like, no kind of, you know, people are gonna push your boundaries. And I wish people understood that. It's not, it's not like a loving thing for another person to never push a boundary. And you can't. It's just we should not expect that.

I feel a lot of women, then they question, maybe I just don't know, you know, and then they, so they decide to give it a try.

Okay, well, try it out. But you're gonna, I mean, how much patience do we want to have for sort of the trial and error? I understand there's an element of trial and error in life, but they're gonna be real damage done by our need for trial and error. Especially if we already kind of have a feeling that we don't want something. If a woman's like, okay, I want to try it out, then say, I want to try it out. But I mean, that's another boundary you can set. Here's you talking to the guy, I'm going to try this because I'm interested in trying this. Are you genuinely interested in trying this first? Okay, I'm genuinely interested in trying this. That doesn't mean I'm going to say yes to this ultimately, because I'm trying it out.

And then sometimes it's too late because he's now accustomed to this style of relationship, that he would not want to transition back into a closed. And then the relationship has to end.

Yeah, yeah.

And I think I've seen this happen across the board, especially in the conscious community. A lot of the conscious men are deciding to be in.

Oh, don't even bring this up with me. The conscious community men are the biggest nightmare that there is, you know, because.

They are direct disciples of Jesus. They will open up your kundalini with their divine sacred cocks and help you remember all of your past lives and hear all of your generation, intergenerational trauma. And you just have to be in an open relationship. But the thing is, you can't be open. Only they can be open.

It's what Jesus would want. Yeah, you don't even want to get me started. This is this.

But then a lot of us women, they're like, I met the guy and he does shadow work and he. He knows about his generational trauma and he's all of these things and I have to be okay with. He wants to be open.

No, you don't have to be okay with anything.

Or I gotta go for the guy at Starbucks.

You don't need to be okay with anything.

So those women who are in these situations of. It feels like it comes with the territory of this archetype. So that's why personally, I don't date the guys in the conscious community either.

Well, the spiritual field is full of escapism. And that's what I want people to understand. I'm not going to say it's the only men that are here, though. There are men that are doing very, very deep work on themselves. I agree. It's fewer and farther between because it's just too tempting for people who are already in a pattern of escapism in life, Whether it's escapism from commitment in relationship or escapism from any element of their temporal selves because they hate life and would rather sort of be in these other dimensional fields. The spiritual field is this big open temptation as a coping mechanism to get away from very real living. So I would be very careful if I was any woman wandering into the spiritual community thinking that just because a guy goes to a yoga class or just because he's taken ayahuasca, he's gonna be a fabulous partner.

Okay, so would you rather be with someone who has done shadow work, intergenerational trauma? He's part of a men's circle. He's done vision quests, plant medicine, and let's say you Were a woman who wanted to be. But the only way he can relate is in an open relationship. And he's okay with you being open, but he's still a little bit possessed about it. It doesn't feel 100% clean. Or be with someone who, you know, has a 9 to 5 job but like, you know, has a nice heart and is a great person, but has never done any kind of like deep healing work. Can't really meet you at that level. But he is interested and he wants to be monogamous with you.

That depends entirely upon that man's willingness. Like the one who's not really into this, that man's willingness to kind of put his toe in. I'm not going to require him to like, you know, jump through X, y and z hoop. If I'm a woman in that scenario, I'm not going to require him to do that, but I'm definitely going to try to invite him into that space. And if he's like a full on. No, this is not a person who's going to be wanting to become aware of his own patterns enough that he's going to be able to make a relationship work, most likely.

So do you feel there's more? Well, then we're back to potential territory.

But to answer your question, I would rather be with the guy who is not into this kind of stuff and genuinely wants what I want in a relationship.

Yeah. And I feel like that's the thing that we really need to be looking at. What's the relationship style and quality that I want versus who is this person?

Exactly. But I feel like this is. Obviously this is going to be a different answer for somebody like me than it is for the average woman. The average woman has not dedicated every minute of their life to this. For me, if I don't have a guy who's dedicated to this in some way, like, I don't even. There's no relationship.

Right.

It's. But I mean, I basically became a priest, so it's kind of like somebody who became a Catholic priest. Being with somebody who's not Catholic, it like, does not work. There's no. So there's more wiggle room for most.

So would you ever be with another, like, spiritual teacher?

No. No. Okay. Because of competition, you don't want to.

Be like a powerhouse couple.

That is my nightmare. You and Sadhguru, you just. You just described my nightmare. That's my actual nightmare.

Why?

And so many men don't get that. I can't tell you how many times I get guys where they're like, I've got this incredible, like, thing that I do in the world as a leader in the spiritual field. Me too. And I'm like, then run away. You should be running as far away as you can.

Okay, here's what I find. Men who get into spirituality often then want to teach the spirituality and then become coaches.

Exactly.

So it's hard to find one that's really into spirituality but isn't a coach.

I've met them, though. They do. I know what you mean. Yeah. It's not like I'm sitting here being like, who are you meeting? No, I've met them. So I know you mean. But they do exist. I promise you, they exist. Especially right now. We're having a lot of conversations around, you know, more the white culture. Honestly, like, we're having a very. Because we're sitting in America, because we're part of this one community, we're having a conversation which doesn't accommodate for the entire world. And more when it comes to, let's be honest, white men and more when it comes to, you know, America especially, there's a hyper fixation on a person becoming their own significant fill in the blank. That doesn't paint a clear picture of all people practicing spirituality all around the world. So probably go to other places if you have the capacity.

Do you think we could be in a successful relationship with someone that grew up in a totally different. Different culture than us and has, like, a completely different worldview, then?

I think it's possible. I think it's very difficult. So I would never sit here and be like, don't do it. Because sort of crossing cultures is going to be a bloody nightmare. What I'm going to say is prepare yourself that it's going to be a challenge because both of you are going to meet with these unconscious expectations and have to decide where you land with it. What I will say is that these relationships that. That defy the sort of one culture marrying one culture dynamic, they have the capacity to put a spotlight on what we want to continue and own and what we want to get rid of. And I think that that can be very beautiful when a person does that accurately and correctly. It can get very difficult when the family's putting pressure on everything, though.

And here's another big one. How much of our relationships really do come back to their family? You know, I grew up like, oh, you're marrying into the person's family, like, always look at their family. And I was like, that doesn't seem fair to me because someone doesn't consciously control their family. However, I saw that that person's family does play a really big role. But that being said, I don't know in the future if I'd ever veto a potential partner because of their family. Okay.

I would veto a person based on their family in a hot second. To the degree that the person is aware of those patterns or not. Now, that's something that I'm watching very closely as a marker. If I'm watching dysfunctional dynamics play out in a family and they don't clock at first, I'm very nervous because what it's going to turn into, especially in my case, especially if you're a conscious person, is it's going to turn into you making them aware of these dysfunctional dynamics. Now, to what degree do you then become the problem in the family? Yes, you're just going to become the new scapegoat. So there's no way in hell I would step in on that. What I'm looking for if I'm stepping into a dysfunctional family dynamic is that the person who is a part of that already knows and is workable where there can be this conversation of, did you see that? What do you think about that? Are you wanting to maintain. I mean, I just saw you do the same thing your dad does. Like, are you wanting to continue that? There needs to be somebody who's willing to have that kind of a conversation for me to step into that dynamic.

And I feel a lot of times people get very defensive.

Yeah, that's a problem. Because it means they're defending the dysfunction.

Right. And that you're making the dysfunction aware. So that means it's real. And I think a lot of people, they don't. They don't want to admit that. So they're like, my family's the best. I had the best childhood ever.

Well, then, congratulations. You've just taken these detrimental patterns and been like, and I will pass them on to my children. That's part of the thing that I'm saying. Like, a lot of us, especially as women who are stepping into this, if we're even considering having children from. You need to get into that dynamic with a person who does not want to continue those patterns. And I mean, in a very, very aware way. Yeah.

I feel a lot of men, especially with their. With their mothers, like, they, they put them on a pedestal. It's a really beautiful thing, you know, but then if they start to criticize or look at, you know, maybe she was always late picking me up or, or whatever the Thing is, then I'm not grateful, so they'd rather just not go there, you know? But then it's like we kind of have to go through the stage of like. Like not hating, but, like, being angry at our parents and letting that all come up and letting that be true for ourselves so we can come back to, like, a clean place of loving them.

Yeah. Where we're able to have a relationship but not engage in the same dysfunctional ways.

So find the men who've done this work but don't want to compete with you. And it just. How much of it do you think is just like, fate versus actually, like, going out there and looking? Because I feel like that's like another big thing. They're like, go out there and date and meet as many people possible.

Oh, the dating world is the surefire way to make you want to kill yourself. Sorry.

Literally, I can't date. It just. It doesn't feel natural.

It's a nightmare. Yeah. Because you're entering into an ocean of rejection is basically what it is. And there's an impression because of the dating apps. There's an impression of endless supply. Yeah. This is not the grounds for a genuine relationship. I mean, some people get kind of lucky, but it's really. It is very dangerous grounds, I'll tell you that.

How much of it do you think is. Is just like, do you believe in love at first sight or do you think that's mostly trauma, bond?

I think there's so many components that go into. Love at first sight is really complicated. A lot of it is attraction elements, which I've just told you are the result of suppression and denying and disowning itself. Right. So that's like, less glamorous. Do I feel like there are. There are people for whom you have soul contracts and you get a very, very powerful hit? And that soul contract could potentially not be a negative one, could be a very positive one. Like, this is the person who's meant to bring in the. This element for you to help you go to the next level. Yes. So it's almost like I'm trying to unpack a curry for you when we have that love at first sight experience. But if I'm somebody who's got that love at first sight experience, I'm not going, oh, and this means that this is going to be the most perfect loving and wonderful relationship. It's the meaning, really, that we add to all these experiences. That's the problem, I've noticed. We just take it at face value. It means this same as when you were just describing. You bring up negative patterns in a family and it's. And this means you're trying to separate me from my family. No. Wanting the patterns to change. So we've got to work to. No matter who we are, what gender we are, what we're doing, we need to unpack and detach the elements of meaning that we're adding to whatever we're experiencing from whatever we're experiencing.

Yes. And what you continually bring us back to is nuance. And that we need to be okay with nuance and paradox and that. That in any situation, there are so many components behind it that only. It takes years to actually, like, continue to find. Oh, and there was that element involved and that element on. It's like super micro, but also very, very quantum at the same time. Like, you meet someone and it's like, you know, maybe you're meant to create a business together. Maybe you're meant to be in each other's lives for one night. Maybe you're meant to for the rest of your lives. And you don't know. But I feel we have become so clinical in love that we're like, oh, my God, this must be a trauma bond. Stay away. And that we don't get to fully experience the intelligence of love and where it's guiding us. And sometimes it is guiding us to have a dark night of the soul and look at all of our traumas. If it's like only that love could have brought you there.

Yep. I completely agree.

So thank you so much for all this. I can talk to you and ask you questions for our. So where can people learn more about your ancestral healing course and dive into all of your workshops?

Going to tealswan.com so tealswan.com which is my website, all you need to do is remember my name. It's basically the place where we've amalgamated everything that I'm doing, whether it's videos that I release every single Saturday or books or products or E courses. Right. So if you click on there and you look in products, you'll see all of the E courses that I have available, including the Ancestral Healing.

Yay. Well, thank you so much for being such a visionary and a lighthouse and just someone who really guides the way. Like, from the beginning, like, I swear you just went on YouTube, you're like, I want to bring spiritual wisdom in here and really paved the way for so many of us. So thank you so much for being you and just being such a radiant, radiant goddess. And you inspire me so much.

It was wonderful to be here again.

Yay. Well, thank you guys so much for tuning in. There is so much in this conversation, so be sure to share it on your Instagram stories. This is a really good way to, like, get these conversations flowing with your friends. Friends. This is a good one. Maybe you, like, want to get a group of friends to listen to you together and be like, ooh, what did you think about this? Or what did you think about that? And have a discussion. Because it's like, we can listen to a podcast and then, like, go on and, like, listen to the next one. And there was literally so much here that if you just re listen to this and unpack it, this will probably, like, help heal your relationships more than probably anything else you've listened to your whole life. So I really encourage you to share with your friends. Have a little podcast club moment with it. Be sure to follow Teal. We have her course and all the links. We have a discount for her course course as well, so you can find that in the show notes as well. And we're super grateful to have you here. I'll see you in the next one. Trust your intuition, trust your inner wisdom. Trust your inner guidance. Close your eyes and listen. So trust your intuition, trust your inner wisdom. Trust you in the guidance.