Copper Magic to Copper Stone - Our Journey of Reconciliation

Hello, you absolutely amazing person, you. I have something exciting to share with you and it is definitely different from all my other videos. The reality is I have been working on something. I haven't been doing it alone and I've been doing it for like five years now. You know me. You know that I work with Indigenous and non Indigenous entities, helping Indigenous communities and peoples and entities to heal and, and stand strong in our teachings and our strength. That I help non Indigenous Canadian entities learn the nuances of Indigenous engagement so that they can service Indigenous peoples and Indigenous markets. And I love the work I do, but it is nuanced and it is challenging and sometimes it takes time. Are you listening, Premier Ford? Bill 5Bs but I digress. If you take the time, it can be such a heartwarming process. And today what I want to share with you is living proof that I walk my talk. I don't just talk about working together. I do it. Today you're going to meet Julia Gibson, an author, an amazing woman, a citizen of the US and her and I are going to share our journey with you. A nuanced journey, one that required transparency and honesty. One that ended well this chapter, at least in the most absolutely amazing way. Let's talk about it. Hello everyone. Mishko Pokanon Kwei N Addition Once again, this is Sandy Boucher. I'm Red Thunderbolt, woman of the Loon Moon Clan, a proud member of Seine River First Nation in Treaty 3 Territory in Northern Ontario. And as I mentioned in the opening, I am here today with my friend and colleague and co author and just amazing person, Julia Gibson. Thank you so much for joining me today, Julia. I know my followers are just gonna love this because I never do this. And we have an exciting story to share that we've kept secret for a long time. And I'm not really known for doing that. So I'm actually really impressed that I was able to do that. So before we get into our journey, which is what I want to share with our followers, Julia, I'm just going to pass it over to you, let people know who you are, what you do, where you are, and let's start there.

Hi, I'm Julia Gibson and I live most of the time in Los Angeles, California, unceded Tongva territory. And I also spend summer times in the northern woods near the Great Lakes in the state of Michigan. The state that's called Michigan. So I'm a writer. I write fiction and some non fiction. A lot of the fiction that I write is set in Michigan, including the book that Sandy and I are going to be talking about. And I'm a grandmother of five and I'm very, very honored and pleased to have gotten to know Sandy and to work at her side and to be inspired by her and to get to know her. And it's been a really rich time for me in the adventure that sort of unfolded with the writing of my first published novel, which we will talk about, which was called the Copper Hand. No, it wasn't called that. That was the original title. The title that it was published in was Copper Magic, a title I did not like and which in and of itself was problematic as we will discuss.

Yes, exactly. And you know what? I real. When I kind of did an outline of what order we would talk about things today. As you well know, I do a lot of reconciliation work. I work with a lot of non indigenous people wanting to learn the nuances of how to work with indigenous people in a respectful way. And one of the things I realized or one of the things I come across on a regular basis, these poor people think they need to know everything about indigenous people before they're able to have a respectful relationship. Like everything down to like our ceremonies in the whole nine yards. And when I knew I was going to ask you to introduce yourself, I was like, there is so much I don't know about Julia. And I think that's such a beautiful lesson in itself because it doesn't take having to know absolutely everything about someone to be able to work together. If you can go into it from my perspective anyway, with respect and humility, honesty and transparency, I think you can build bridges and I think that's hugely important. It's not about studying each other and memorizing our bios and all of that fun stuff because we've had amazing conversations on this journey and yeah, none of that was required. So thank you so much for sharing that five grand. Can see, I didn't know that. That's epic.

Sometimes I actually put that in my bios, but sometimes I don't. Yeah, yeah. But you know, I love that you brought that up because I didn't know. I only knew of you. And I think that we had been on some of the calls together with our common.

Yeah.

And friend. But I didn't know much about you other than what I saw on your website and in your book. I did read your books before I contacted you the first time, so I knew that I knew a lot about you actually, because I knew something about your personal life and I knew what your history was a little Bit. But as I think I've told you, when I first did contact you, I didn't think that you were the person or that you were going to say yes. I just hoped that you would know somebody who might say yes.

That's right, too. You asked for a referral. That's right. I had.

I didn't. I just thought, oh, well, she doesn't do this, really. She does. She does reconciliation work. But, you know, I was looking for somebody to do a specific thing. Yeah.

And we'll talk about.

We'll talk about that so that people know what we're talking about. But. Yeah, but I knew you only sort of on a professional level.

Yeah.

We got to know each other much in a more deep way over time.

Yeah. And funny, true fact, right now on my desk right next to me is a manuscript and a finished book, both of which they want my feedback on. Yay. I guess this is something I do. So, as Julia mentioned, so we've decided we're going to take you on this journey. And because we're both authors and it is based around a book or books, we're going to use chapters rather than sections on this journey. So I just thought that was a nice play on words and totally fitting for this. So chapter one is something Julia already mentioned. It's Copper Magic. It's her first book, so go for it.

So the book Copper Magic, which was called Copper Magic, is a historical novel about a young girl. And she's in the land I spoke of, Upper Michigan, by the lakes that I grew up loving and still love. And I wanted to write about that place for a long time. And I didn't quite have a way in. But what I wanted to explore in the story was who belongs there? And how did the. How did my ancestors, my great grandparents, come there as summer people when there were already people, white people by then, living as farmers and small town people, you know, so that was a different culture. So as I wrote the story, I was like, well, what about the original people that were here? That's really the story. So I ended up having indigenous content in the book and it was, you know, a significant thread in the book. And as I was writing, I thought, oh, God, you know, like, what am I doing? I know that this is, you know, potentially problematic, but I'm going to do my best. I did my best as I was going along. And this was a really long time ago. I started writing the book many, many years ago. And at the time when it was getting toward being in shape enough for my agent to send out. I was like, you know, I need somebody to look at this. And I reached out to academics and people who knew people and stuff, and I didn't get anywhere at all. I couldn't find a single person who would look at the indigenous content and tell me if I was on the right track or not. This was before sensitivity. Readers were an actual industry.

Yeah.

So, you know, when the book was sold, I said to my editor, you know, I'm worried about this. And she, a Chinese American editor, said, oh, no, no, you've. You know, your intention is good. You know, you're. You've done a good job here. So I was still a little bit leery about it, but yay. I sold my first book and I was, you know, 60 years old or whatever. I mean, it was, like, really a huge deal for me.

Yeah.

So the book came out and immediately.

When did it come out? Do you remember?

In 2014. I. E. 11 years ago. Yep. So it came out. And one. And one of the first reviews I got was a really wonderful one. And then the second review that came out was a. From an indigenous reviewer who slammed it.

Yeah. So. Which is going to take us into chapter two here, which is. So the book went out. And by the way, before we get into the backlash, which is a huge part of this journey. But kudos to you because, like you said, this was before, like in Julia's. In the US Obviously, but this was before, like, reconciliation, cultural sensitivity, all of that stuff, which we talk about on a regular basis. So the fact that you were aware enough to think of the original peoples and want them included in their book, like, to so many people, we're still just invisible. So I just. You get bonus points for that. I just wanted to put that out there. But now we're going to talk about chapter two, which is the backlash and actually what leads to our journey together. So continue on.

Well, so this review came out, and I was really embarrassed and ashamed and, you know, it really put a shadow on the triumph that I felt of being finally a published author after many years of struggle. But, you know, I took it to heart. I mean, you know, I just didn't know what to do. Yeah, I was. I mean, there was nothing to do. You know, so that just stayed with me. You know, the book came out. You know, a lot of people read it. It went into a second printing. You know, people enjoyed it and stuff like that, but still it gnawed at me. So eventually the book went out of print, and when it went out of Print. My agent said, well, let's get the rights back. And I said, great. So we got the rights back. And I thought, okay, well, maybe I can rewrite this thing. Maybe there's a way to do it. Well, I don't know if there is, but maybe there is. So I reached out to Sandy because I knew of her and I knew of the work that she was doing. And again, I didn't really dare to hope that Sandy would, in fact, be the person. I just thought maybe she'd know somebody who could be the person. And Sandy's response was, let me take a look at it. I'd be interested in seeing what's up with this thing. So she did, and I. Now maybe you should talk about. Yeah. What that was like for you.

So before we get into chapter three, which is my first review of the book, I just wanted to highlight and point out that our mutual connection was Josephine Mandamin. So the original Water Walker, she was an elder and a friend of mine. She lived here in the city of Thunder Bay. She has passed on now, but her influence continues and touches people on a regular basis. And, Julia, you were involved with the water walks as well. Correct. So, I mean, this is. Thanks. Thanks, Joe, for bringing us together. So when Julia reached out, now, being an author writing, that's like I've always said, it would be easier for me to give up breathing than it would be writing. So finding another author, a kindred spirit, was something that definitely intrigued me. But then when she had shared about the backlash and what's going on in the book.

I.

Well, I just knew the climate that we exist in for one, like both sides of the feather, for one, a non indigenous person writing about indigenous peoples and things, that's very dangerous ground to be walking on. It's so nuanced. And I'm not talking intentionally trying to be disrespectful or anything, because I've said a hundred times, you don't need intent to hurt someone. I knew there was no ill intent, but I also knew that's next to impossible to do accurately. At the same time, I also knew the force of the backlash that sometimes happens depending on who the indigenous voice is. It can be scolding. It can be terrific. Horrific, I should say. And I really admired the fact that Julia had sustained that, had heard that, but wasn't giving up, that she was looking for the bridge, that she was looking for some understanding, some clarification. So I really respected that. If there's one thing I've come to learn about Julia is. She is naturally a humble person. And humility builds bridges. I've said that a hundred times. If you go into relationship, indigenous and non, and you're all ego on either.

Side, that you're making me cry now.

Well, egos burn bridges, but humility builds them. And often I run into people who minimize indigenous engagement, and they say something along the lines of, well, I've been doing it for years. It's easy. But then when I start to talk to them, it's like, oh, that's because you're a humble person. It was easy for you. Like, because we recognize humility as one of our sacred teachings. So it's a commonality we can work with. So, Julia. Oh, you wanted to jump in there.

Well, thank you for saying that. Actually, what was in my mind also, which I may or may not have said to at the time, is that, well, I was totally prepared for the answer to be, there's nothing to be done. You've written about indigenous people. Not cool, can't fix it. But I did want to be able to understand what was wrong. And the review had pointed out some things, but I really wanted to understand better.

Yeah.

So even if it wasn't going to result in a new book or a new I, the understanding itself was really what I was after.

Yeah.

And so I was hoping that somebody would be generous enough and, you know, willing enough to help me with that.

Yeah.

So you. And you were. And then you. And, you know, and I. I think I did say to you at the beginning, like this, if you think that this is not. I'm totally willing to walk away. I mean, you know, but you came back and said, yeah, what you said.

So she sent me the book. I still have it on my bookshelf now.

We have the sticker. We have the sticker.

Yes. So you sent me the book. And as so happens, I was doing a youth event that week. Weekend, I should say. And for those in northern Ontario or in the Thunder Bay region, if you're familiar with Quitico park at all, and what used to be the Quetico Conference Center. So it has now it's been sold, but at the time, it had been abandoned for quite a few years. They were holding a youth gathering there. It was literally in the middle of the bush. We were going to stay in the old dorms where the students had stayed, think heavy 1970. And there no TV, no radio, no Internet. So the timing could not have been better because it was like, well, now I have something I can do in the quiet times. I'm going to read this book. And so I'm literally in, like, a dorm room writing a paper on Copper Magic. And I can honestly say, and I don't know if I've ever shared this with you, Julia, I was more than willing to go through the book and make my comments, which I absolutely did, and that's what I sent to you. But as someone who does the work I do, I was also bracing myself for backlash, because often people ask for feedback, but then you run right smack into white fragility. And for any other author, any author out there, our books are our babies. And I wanted to make sure that I wasn't coming across as criticizing the book. I loved the book. Like, Julia has heard me say that a million times. I love the characters. I love the story. I have read it so many times now, and I would read it again willingly. It's just a well written, amazing story. But there were things that were problematic, for one, even the title. Julia touched on that. The fact that Indigenous knowing and spirituality are touched on in this book. Not from a place of knowledge, actually a lack of knowledge, which is such a commonality for so many Indigenous people who have been separated from their culture and their teachings. And they feel in their blood memory that they know something, but they don't really know it. And that's an authentic experience and a common experience. And those were the kind of things that were touched on in the book, which is beautiful. But even the title itself, Copper Magic, Comparing Indigenous spirituality and our teachings and way of knowing to magic, felt disrespectful. So anyone who knows me, I tend to be very direct and very transparent, and what I'm thinking is what you're going to hear. And I sent back quite a few comments on the book.

It was long. It was about, you know, maybe five, six pages exactly based. It was a lot.

Yeah.

And it was detailed. You know, I mean, you went into a lot of detail and you did, you did.

Yeah, and I really tried.

Further than that. But you did explain.

And I really tried not to just say the sentence is so wrong, but explaining why, like what? To me, it felt like it was implying what the actual truth would be of an Indigenous person in this experience. And I don't think I went as far as suggestions, but definitely highlighting what the errors were or what the issues would be. So I went through this, and even then, I loved the book, but there were definite. I knew why the backlash.

I remember. I remember the phrase you used. Remember the phrase you used? No, you said some of this is very cringy.

Yeah. And I think already I had, like, just a warm vibe, a warm impression of you. So it was. I knew you didn't want to cause harm. I knew. And I also knew you cared not to. And yeah, there were just points in that book. It's like. Like where I almost wanted to put it down. And it was like, okay, no, that's not what the assignment is. We knew we were going to run into things. That's what it is. Just share honestly and then leave it in creator's hands. So I sent back my feedback and just had no idea if there was going to be a next chapter, if I was going to get a really nasty email. Well, but it's something I want to touch on for my followers because that is on both sides of the feather. Again, that is one of the things that really prevents these kind of relationships, that both sides are so terrified of a backlash. Like, are they actually able to hear me? Do they understand I'm not attacking, but I am being honest. Right. And it happens enough time for it to be a justifiable fear on both sides. And if you want to enter these relationships, you have to be humble enough and open enough to hear when someone says, this doesn't work for me, or this is cringy, or whatever the case may be, and not take that personally, but rather as an invitation to make this better. Right. So I think that's key to why this journey actually turned out to be an awesome experience for both of us. So I'm going to kick it back over to you now. So I sent that incredibly long comments back to you, and I don't remember receiving a nasty email from you. So what happened on your side?

Well, you were so thorough in that first pass and that first, you know, editorial letter, let's call it. So I think the next thing I did was I tried to sort of categorize the problems, and one of them was that there was. There is a character from the past, and a lot of most of her stuff was totally wrong and messed up. So I was willing to dump her entirely from the narrative, except for the first sort of vision of her. And you hung with that and said, wait a minute, you know, maybe like, you know, we don't have to do that. But I was. But then there were some. There were. There were some issues that were relatively minor but significant, but they weren't like, oh, God, I've got a change of all character or something. So once I kind of broke that down and said, okay, here's the key things, and here's the things we have to address or that I need to understand better or we need to get rid of or whatever. And so we kind of worked through in stages. And I can't remember exactly what the first phase was. It was, it was, it might have been the easiest. I think we start, I think I started with the easy stuff. Like there was things about the, the, the clan symbolic symbolism that was in there inadvertently that didn't, that didn't work. You know, free for an indigenous eye. Right. So I, you know, and then some of the things were bigger about the. Well, the big one was that in the original story there's a man or a human made object made of copper that is the power object. And you suggested using a natural object instead. And I had thought I had actually that had been my original concept for the book. But I got so enamored with the idea of the copper and how, you know, copper has a whole history and the whole middle of the United States and you know, the indigenous use of copper and it was so interesting to me and the beauty full, you know, creations that were made out of copper. So I got so taken up with that that I overcame my own sort of inclination to use a stone or whatever. But anyway, so that was, that was one thing. And I did resist that a little bit. I remember with you and was like, well, you know, I just love, you know, I'm honoring, you know, these, this wonderful art and everything, the sacred art. But so once we figured that out, that actually made a big change because the object was different the whole way that, you know, it's found and used and the way. So that, that all was kind of complicated in a way, or at least felt that way to me. But most of the stuff was pretty straightforward and you explained things. So it didn't take much for me to kind of get it like, okay, but something. It was sort of like, okay. So one of the things was in the original book, there's this sacred object and the woman from the past is, is holding her arms to the sky. And you said, we don't do that. That's not. And instead she would hold it maybe to herself. And you had this whole great suggestion about when we did create it as a stone, that the copper and the stone would sort of match with the hand of somebody holding it and it would sort of go, you know, so the power. And it would be felt. And that was really beautiful. And you had so many wonderful suggestions. I mean, it was, you know, and as we worked together it just really became a partnership. I mean, it wasn't like a separation. I felt that way. To me, it felt like we were sort of on. We were on. You put it as we were walking on the path, and you kept saying that throughout the time we spent doing that, and it really felt like that. Yeah. And it felt, you know, that I was. That you were leading and I was behind. You were sort of clearing the path or something, and I was. But we were on the same path when we were together, and then sometimes we were side by side. I mean, that was the imagery that just kept coming for me, and it was so satisfying and nourishing, and it felt so reparative.

Yeah.

You know, I felt that I had made sort of a rent or, you know, a damage in, you know, the universe somehow with this work and that somehow. And that's why I called it an amended version, Amending and making amends. Right. And it felt like that. And it felt. I was so grateful for your honesty and your creativity and your. And you kept with it, too. Like, it really did take a long time. Yeah. Like, I would do one pass, and then one of us would be busy and, you know. You know, we just. And we both, Which I really loved, we both would say, like, well, when the time is right. Yeah, you know, we'll talk again or whatever. Or when the time is right, I'll get to this next pass or whatever. Because I was working on other stuff, and you, of course, had busy career, and, you know, we weren't always in sync about timing, and that was cool. That didn't matter to me at all. That was like, okay, it's going to take what it takes and we'll see what happens. Like, I didn't know if, you know, I didn't know what's going to happen with this new version of the book.

Yeah.

Or if it would be satisfying to me ultimately, as, you know, a work. But it was just a wonderful collaboration and partnership for me.

So a couple of things I just want to add into that. So, Pam Palmetto, amazing speaker, powerhouse indigenous Mi' Kmaq woman, always says, if it's convenient, it's not reconciliation. And as Julia just pointed out, I think one of the reasons this journey was so enjoyable was there wasn't the pressure to get it done. By Friday, we were honoring the journey and the discovery, you know, of the nuances of the characters. And one thing I just realized as you were talking, I have been pretty adamant in red thunderbolt manner, like I always do, that non indigenous people, as a General rule should not be writing indigenous characters because you just don't have the worldview. But in the case of the character in this book, so her mom's indigenous, her dad isn't. There's indigenous people in the area, but she's not really connected with them. And it's almost like your non indigenous lens made that character so authentic. Because she didn't have an indigenous lens. She had some indigenous knowing that we worked on and fine tuned, but that wasn't the way she saw the world. She remembered certain things her mom would do or things that made no sense to her now. So it almost seemed perfect. Like I couldn't write a character like that because how I see the world would seep into it and then that would not be the journey of that character. So that was pretty awesome. And by the way, the other thing I want to say because one of the major issues when it comes to indigenous and non indigenous working together is that indigenous knowledge is not valued. And Julia actually paid me to do this consulting work with her. So from the get go, my contribution was respected. Julia, I think several times. Are you sure you're okay with this? The compensation's okay, whatever. And it's like it was just an absolutely respectful journey. And yes, we did several rewrites and you would make changes and then send it back to me. And I always read the full thing from start to finish to see the flow. I definitely the phrase go by feel every single time you did a rewrite. And I read through it, it was like, is that cringe there? Like, is something going to catch me off guard? And sometimes there was one or two things and we would go through the process again. But one of the two things, I love that, to me, the book got better with every rewrite. Like, I loved it even more.

And you kept saying that, which was so nourishing to me.

And I cried every single time. Even though I know the book and I know how it ends and I know what happens, that it resonated that deeply. So I thought that was an absolutely beautiful experience. So long story short, we went. Now, how long has this journey been? Like, well, I can't. Two years, three years? Something longer than that.

Maybe five. Ish.

Yeah, I have to look.

But it took, you know, it took. It took years really to get the book to where it is now.

Yeah.

So.

So long story short, it is. Well, I almost said the book is now done, but it's not. It's like in the last few tweaks stages of the book, it has a New title.

It has a new title, which is the Copper Stone. And then we both, I think, thought maybe simultaneously ish. That it should have a subtitle because it. Or I think actually you pointed. I. I had it nag n. Naggling in my mind. Nagging in my mind that, you know, it doesn't really say what the book is. Yeah. And so you suggested, like, it needs a subtitle. So I went on a crazy long journey. I even went to AI, which I don't even want to know anything about, to try to find a subtitle. And, you know, and I kept bringing them to Sandy and we didn't like anything. And it was like, oh, God, you know, what are we gonna. And because I knew at this point it was like, it's got to have a subtitle.

Yeah.

I mean, we have. I mean, I'm not going to give up on finding one or creating one. And then somehow. And then maybe you had mentioned you may be suggested, but I think I came to it elsewhere. The phrase blood memory.

Yeah.

And I didn't know that that was an indigenous phrase at all. I just thought, huh, that makes sense. Yeah. So blood memory. Okay. I like it. And then you and I got on the phone and talked, you know, and then we. And then you suggested a glimpse. A glimpse of blood memory as the. As the subtitle, which works so well. And I really love it. And. And just it feels so. I can feel it in my cells kind of.

Yeah.

In literally my blood memory, which isn't the same as.

Yeah.

The character's blood memory or, you know, but it's. I feel it.

Yeah. And. And to me, it absolutely described the book, the contents of the book, like that glimpse, that knowing she had, but not knowing. Like, what is this? That blood memory? And back to something you said earlier. Yeah. Just from Anishinaabe Kwei perspective. Like, the ancestor had to stay in there. Right. Like, yeah. Then definitely she needed some reworking. She was a little too Hollywood Indian in the beginning, but. Yeah. I just love, love, love, love how it ended up. And just bringing this to the end here. One of the reasons I really wanted to do this video and this chat with Julia and share it with you all is the book is launching June 21, National Indigenous Day here in Canada, which just. That's just absolutely perfect.

Your idea.

Well, I didn't even remember that, but it's absolutely awesome. Julia, I don't know. I didn't ask you this ahead of time, so if you're not comfy with it, that's totally okay. This is how we've done our journey. But I was wondering if you could share, like, the text from the back cover. Oh, yeah.

Let me find it, though. Hold on.

I just, Just love this so much. Oh, your camera is off. Did you know that? There she is. I can't hear you, unfortunately. Do you have to put your earbuds back in? Is that. That little button on your earbuds controls like. I cannot hear you. Oh, no. Oh, no. What happened? Oh, no. I think you might have to sign out and sign back in. Okay. We had this challenge earlier, so we're just gonna let Julia do that. Last time, she signed out and signed back in and absolutely worked, so. And I'm certain it will this time because I really, really, really want you to hear this. It just. We've alluded to the book. You should just imagine holding it in your hand and reading the back cover because you're gonna want to read the book. I'm just, just, just saying, oh, here's Julia again. Let her back into the room, and there she is. And we can hear her.

I think every time I, I take up my headset somehow. So you're talking about the. The back of the book. The. The text describes the book. Okay.

Yes.

Can unearthed wrongs heal what was broken? The year is 1906, and 12 year old Violet Blake finds an unusual stone by the stream where her mother used to harvest medicine. Violet is certain that the stone is magic. And if anyone's in need of its power, it's Violet. Her mother and adored little brother are gone, perhaps never to return. And her heartbroken father can't seem to sustain the family's failing farm near the shores of Lake Michigan and the mysteriously clear blue lake. Surely the power of the stone can make things right for Violet and her fractured family. But as Violet grasps for the stone to serve her and her alone, hidden truths are revealed and peril is unleashed on those who don't deserve what comes their way.

I got chills. I just love. I just absolutely love it.

I'm so glad. And I love you. And I love everything that I have learned from you and been challenged by. By you. And I love that you challenge. You're not afraid to, you know, say things that are difficult. Yeah. Might be hard to take in.

Yeah.

I mean, I just want to the point that you made about, you know, being willing or whatever you said about, you know, I think because I've written for a long time and had my work critiqued a lot, I know what you Mean, I mean, it's not. You know, a lot of writers are very resistant. They don't really want feedback. They say they do, but they really don't. And I've seen this over and over again with people that have had me read things or whatever. But I'm in a very stringent writing community where, you know, I. If I share my work, people tell the truth. And I want the truth. I don't want somebody to say, I love it. Why? Yeah, I mean, you know, if that's all you have to say and there's nothing that, you know, I mean, sometimes it's like, okay, well, it's really great, but a few words. Okay, I get that. But people need to tell the truth and be willing to, you know, take that in if you're. If you're really serious about your work. That's what you. That's what you expect from people, and that's what you are glad to get if someone can do that. And you. You are able to do that. And I so appreciated that, you know, you dug deep and you told and you, you know, set it straight.

Yeah.

You know, what I wanted to hear.

You just reminded me or made a very valid point. I think before I read either the manuscript or the book that's on my desk, I'm going to ask them and email them and ask them what they're looking for, because it could be validation. It could be. I need an indigenous person to say, this is great work. And that is totally different than authentic feedback.

Yes.

And do I really want to jump into that box? I don't think so. I don't do that very well. So, bottom line, the book is like, this close to finished now. We are actually doing what turns out to be a kind of hybrid, half live, half virtual book tour, only because of the insanity that's going on between our two countries right now. But, Julia, did you want to touch base on the event schedule that's coming up in July, where we're going to be? What we're going to be doing?

Yes. At the end of July, we have two events that are in the community. That is my summer place and where the book is set. And one of them is at the community itself, which is great because a lot of people there have read the original book and not many of them. I mean, my friends there know about the new book, but a lot of people don't. And that I think they'll be really, really interested in it. And I think we'll have a lot of people who a come to the that event and B, who will be interested in not just my book but also Sandy's book, the Path, which we are offering as a companion to the book because her work in reconciliation is so key to the story of the book, the story of the copper stone. Then we also have an event the next day. I forget the exact dates. I think it's the 28th and the 29th. But don't quote me exactly. At the public library in that town.

Yeah.

Where I also. The first book had an event and it's a really lovely library. The people that work there are amazing. It's right on the bay there. It's really, really a sweet place. I'm sorry you can't be there in person, Sandy, because I know you'd love it. So that'll happen and we'll get a different kind of crowd. More people locally and from the surrounding area who also some of them know the book and it was carried in the local bookstore there and I hope will be again or the new one will. And then we have a couple that are in the works. And so I think it's exciting that we're basically launching the book in the area where it takes place.

Yeah.

And that's one draw that people had to the book was like, oh, I know this place, I know this woods, I know these waters. And it's the history, sort of a loosely based real history of the coming of the summer people and the displacement. There's some displacement story in there about the native people who were there originally. Yeah.

And earlier I had said that it's pretty much across the board rule for me that non indigenous people shouldn't write indigenous characters. And what I love for those people that did read the first book and now hopefully will read the second is when someone else writes our story then whoever reads it is denied the authentic story. And now the story is authentic. Right. It has the nuances that could not have been there otherwise. So I'm really, really hoping that they read the new book because it is going to give them so much more understanding and insight into into that part of the book. So yeah. Awesome. And for followers on my YouTube channel, Julia has agreed. We're actually going to do a YouTube live on June 20th. Looking at my notes here at 12 o' clock Eastern. Hopefully we can capture a whole bunch of time zones that way. So if you enjoyed this video or you have questions that's come on out to the live. We are going to be doing a Q and A, just answering your questions and hopefully encouraging other people to take this kind of journey. It's not a quick journey, but it is so beneficial. I know it. It encouraged me and just warmed my heart so often that this is possible that I'm not crazy in believing that this is possible because we actually did it. So, Julia, thank you so, so much for being human being you are. And for reaching out and trusting me and hearing me and. And having those conversations. There were things we totally agreed on. There were things that we did a back and forth on, but we always found middle ground. Right? So, yes.

Thank you. Also, I look forward to everything we do together in the future.

Yes. Because I'm pushing. I'm pushing for the next chapter.

I know.

Because it's got to continue. There's a story that needs to be told. So awesome. That is everything from us today. Again, thank you so much, Julia, not only for the amazing journey, but for enjoying, for joining me today so I can share this with my followers. It's been phenomenal and our journey is nowhere near the end, so.

Amen.

Okay, take care everyone. Until next time. I love you. Bye Bye.