The PATH Podcast for January 27 2024

Today, on this episode of the PATH podcast, I really wanted to talk about an attitude, a situation that I see happening far too often when it's related to Indigenous peoples. And then we got to talk about privilege, namely yours. So let's talk about it. Bonjour, Mishko Paganung KWEI N Addition Hi, everybody. It's Andy Boucher here once again. I'm Red Thunderbolt, woman of the Loon clan, a proud member of Seine River First Nation in Treaty 3 Territory in Northern Ontario. And today, as always, I'm focused on the interactions between non Indigenous Canadians and Indigenous peoples. And do not get me wrong, I work with, know, have the pleasure of meeting many amazing non Indigenous Canadians. These people, whether they're in a school, a hospital, an office, whatever, a store, whatever the environment might be when they meet. And I'm not talking about customer service here, so I'm talking about when they meet a new colleague, a new staff person, someone they're going to be interacting with and they're welcoming that new person into their space. I see these people being so amazing and, and so welcoming and so supportive and encouraging and I just love it. But far too often I see that level of amazing applied to everyone but Indigenous Peoples. There is almost this attitude that Indigenous people don't need any more help, that they should just know that there, there's just this judgment, this in some case raising to the level of hatred that I just don't want to be part of this. All those stereotypes about all the benefits we get, like, unpack that, because that's the biggest bunch of BS ever. And I see this and I can't help, like today I'm asking, why do you do that? And don't tell me I want you. I do not want to see that in the comments. Thank you very much. Have some consideration of how that would affect me. I want you to ask yourself that question. Do you have some stuff you need to unpack? Did you get handed some stereotypes that you bought to be true? And I'm not judging the people that told you that. Obviously they were given a stereotype at some point that they thought was true. They passed it on to you. I don't think I have a lot of kids watching this channel. So you're an adult. You can unpack that now. You can call that out now. You can change that now because that is so not true. We are not starting at the same beginning line. And one of the biggest differences is our levels of privilege. Now, I am going to own the fact that as a white presenting Indigenous person. I have a lot of privilege. And let me be crystal clear. There is no point in feeling shame or guilt over your level of privilege because you didn't ask for it. But equally as true, you can't give it back. All you can do with your privilege is help open doors for the people that don't have that privilege. So today, what I thought would be really neat to do. I swear, this just stands the test of time. I have sheets of paper here this time. I don't know when this came out, but it was quite a while ago. Peggy McIntosh wrote an article, well, a portion of a paper, and it was called White Privilege Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack. And what she did. I want to be crystal clear here. She did not write this as a quiz for other people to do. What she did was wrote down 26 points that were true for her as a white woman. Her privilege, and what we've been doing with this for years is going through the 26 points and asking is this true for me? And again, let's keep those defensive walls down. You didn't ask for your privilege, but you gotta own if you have it. And more importantly, you gotta realize or trying to start imagining what life would be like for someone who doesn't have that privilege. Well, my hair is looking pretty funky today anyways. A little vain moment there. So I would grab a pen or pencil and just your count on your fingers. Whatever rocks your boat. But let's talk about your privilege. And I'm going to add in my commentary as we go through this. So the first one, now remember, Peggy is just talking about her world. World. What I'm asking is, does this also apply to you? So the first one, I can, if I wish, arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time. Yes or no? Just. And you got to limit yourself to a yes or no. I can, if I wish, arrange to be in the company of people in my race most of the time. For me, my answer would be no. No, I could do would take some serious work because I'm not living in the middle of a First Nation community. I'm living in the middle of a Canadian city. Are there Indigenous people here? Yes. Could I go to one of my agencies, one of our Indigenous agencies, increase the odds of being around indigenous people110. Even though a lot of our agency age agencies nowadays aren't even staffed by Indigenous people anymore. That's a rant for another day. So I couldn't just walk into a restaurant and have that happen if you're white, then you could, unless you're living in an area where another race is more predominant. So in my case, the answer is no. Number two, if I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live. Okay, I'm gonna go with yes for this. While acknowledging that for most of my life it was a no. That what I couldn't as an impoverished indigenous person in Canada for so many years, I was not in safe spaces and I couldn't afford to be in better neighborhoods. Which is going to play into another point we're going to talk about in a sec. So again, yes or no for you, no shame or guilt. If you needed to move, you could be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area where you could afford it and you would want to live. Okay, so I should be keeping my own store. I told you to keep store. So the first one was a no. Second one was a yes. You're going to count up your yeses at the end. Number three, I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me. So if you have the money and you can move to nice area, will they be neutral or pleasant to me? Debatable in my case and totally, completely honest. If I had on a winter coat and you couldn't see my tattoos and I wasn't wearing any beadwork and nothing around my home signified I was indigenous and yes, they would be neutral or pleasant to me. And there's a really good chance that would change the more they find out about my culture, who I am or the work I do. So because of my white presenting skin, I and the fact that I could pass, even though I would never consider doing that, I'm going to go with yes for number three. So would they be pleasant or neutral to you? Meaning not mean and nasty? Anything but number four, I can go shopping alone most of the time. Pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed. Now if you don't know this indigenous youth, I believe black youth as well. I've seen reports of that. It's just it, at standard practice, they're followed around stores, people assuming they're going to steal again because of my fair complexion, my white presenting skin. That has not happened to me. It is most definitely happened to my son who is darker. So can I go shopping alone most of the time without being followed or harassed? That's a yes for Me. What's your answer? Number five, I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented. That's a no for me unless I'm watching aptn, Aboriginal People's Television Network, if you didn't know. Yeah, I might see one story on the news about nearby First Nation community. I could watch a sitcom. I could watch any of those series. You don't see Indigenous people unless there's one episode that happens on a reservation. So, yeah, that's a no for me. Now, what about you? If you're non Indigenous, if. Well, no, if you're white, that's a hell yes. Because that is still predominantly who's on tv. And if you want to argue that you need to go unpack, that this is not the space. That's. That's. If you don't want to own reality, that's something you got to work on. That's not up to me to change. Number six, when I was told about our national heritage or about when I'm told about civilization, I am shown that people of my color made it what it is. That's a hell no. I mean, historicizing Indigenous people, yes, they try to keep us in history, but this part of history used to drive me nuts when they would show those heritage pictures, I think they called them, and it was all the forefathers in a room discussing how they were going to create the country. I didn't see any chiefs in that room. And that always bothered me. So again, if you're non indigenous, white, European settler, settler descendant, all of those, then yeah, of course, every part of the history books is your part of forming Canada. We got eliminated. So that would. If you're one of those people, that's a yes for you. Definite no for me. Number seven, I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race. I'm still saying no on that one. Even though it's getting better. I got. When I was in school, I. We talked about TVs, we talked about Indigenous people out on the prairies chasing buffalo, Indigenous building totem poles in the west. And that's it. Now move on to the important history. It's getting better, and it's definitely getting better. And my daughter's observation, when she got to university, now you really start seeing the discussion. And she came home one day and she said, how come I had to wait to university to be taught or have a discussion about who I am? Good question. So again, everything about textbooks and. And curriculum are indigenous. Non indigenous European settler descendant. I mean, the fact that they're in English or French proves that. Right? So that would be a yes for. For you guys, a no for me. 8. Unless, of course, you're indigenous. Then it's a no for you too. 8. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege. Meaning you got to imagine for a second you wrote a piece on white privilege. Could you find a publisher? I am going to go with a yes for that one only because I have four books out. I'm well known in this space, so I think now I could get a publisher. Twenty years ago, before this career. No. An indigenous perspective on privilege, no one wanted to hear that. They do now. This is a great and wonderful thing. So I'm saying yes, if you're a European settler descendant. Yeah. Pretty sure you could find a publisher to publish your books even on white privilege. That probably opens the door for a bunch of horrible people to write their opinion on privilege. There is. Can I just throw this in there? There's a huge difference between opinion and fact. And in this day and age, 20, 24, people seem to be confused on that. They think that their opinion is just important. And what drives me nuts is when their opinion is about something they have no experience with, no know nothing about, didn't get, do not have the lived experience, and they still think their opinion's valid. What? Yeah, Little red there. Number nine. And by the way. Well, we'll talk about that at the end. Number nine. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions. Into our hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair. Okay, so I'll unpack this, but I'm gonna go with a no on this one. First one, I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented better than it used to be. I can go in there and buy, like a powwow cd, right? Like northern Cree comes to mind. There's so many amazing traditional drum groups, so that one's. You'd have to look for it, but it's there. Into a supermarket and find the staple foods. No, I'm not going to find moose. I'm not going to find deer. I'm not going to find beaver in. In a supermarket because they're not regulated. They're not controlled. Into a hairdresser shop and find someone who can cut my hair? You may not realize, but indigenous hair is really super thick. So a lot of those fun styles where your hair looks wispy, that's not even possible. And if you don't cut it right, it's not going to lay right. Years ago, I actually took training. I thought I wanted to be a hairdresser and I learned how to cut hair. And the people that came to me to cut their hair were always indigenous because I knew how to handle their hair. So that's a no on me. So what about you? What about you? Number 10? Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability. I'm gonna say yes on this one again because I'm white presenting. I can remember this was years ago. I don't know what it was at that time. A gold master caller card, a platinum mastercard, whatever the top of the food chain was. And my sister in law, who is status indigenous, presented her like Platinum MasterCard with her status card to make a purchase. And the clerk actually asked her where she got the credit card from. I thought my sister in law was going to go over the counter at her. So that's what this is talking about. If I just want to see when you use count on your skin color not playing against. There's so many people that in Zoom endeavor, Indigenous means impoverished. That should not be an assumption that's made. Is there a high percentage of impoverished indigenous people? Yes. There's also a lot of incredibly successful indigenous people. Don't make assumptions. So for me, yeah, my skin color is not going to play against that because they don't think I'm indigenous. That I get that shocked expression when they see my status card. And you don't look indigenous, which is another video completely. Number 11, I can arrange to protect my children most of the time. Who? People from people who might not like them. That's a hell no. Yeah, Indigenous kids in schools, unless it's an indigenous specific school. Bullied, attacked, ostracized, like horrific. Horrific. And which is why I love that my grandkids are homeschooled. Just gonna eliminate that. I have serious issues with the education system. Serious issues. In the same way that I have an issue with the children's aid foster care system. If you can't keep my kids safe, you don't have the right to look after them. And our education systems are war zones. No child should be in that situation. If your child cannot conduct themselves in an environment in a respectful way, they shouldn't be there. Teach your kid to be part of society. Doesn't mean they have to be a little minion doing what they're told and saying nothing. But you learn to get along with people. Unless you're going to go live on an island by yourself. Today's a day of rants, isn't it? Okay, I didn't see that coming. Number 12. Oh, this one. I can swear or dress in secondhand clothes or not answer letters without having people attribute those choices to either bad morals, poverty, or the illiteracy of my race. If you get. Your race gets judged because you choose to wear secondhand clothes, swear or not answer an email. That's what this is talking about. So I'm gonna say, yes, I can do those things. And people just assume I'm busy. Now, there was a time that it was definitely attributed to the fact that I was indigenous and didn't know better. I had no manners, I wasn't civilized. So that's improved as I. I am living proof. This score can change. Number 13. So we're halfway through. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without being. Without putting my race on trial. That's a. Heck no. We're not there yet. I have done those keynotes and, and been challenged. What about this? What about that? Why do you people do this or that? So my race does get put on trial and it's not flipping fun. So if you've never been cornered and had to explain European descendants, then you have this privilege or whatever. I'm going to assume you're a European descendant. Okay. Number 14. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race. I'm still giving myself a no on that one. I hear it all the time like, wow, you're so outspoken. You're so confident for an indigenous person. That credit to my race. Anyways, yes or no, can you do it without being told you're. Wow, you're really confident for a white person. 15. I'm. By the way, I'm assuming most of my audience are non indigenous because that's what the statistic stats show. If you're indigenous, I'm going to assume your experiences may be closer to mine. They may be even worse than mine, cuz. Wait. Presenting again. 15. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group. So if you're never asked, it's a yes. Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give it a yes that I'm never. I used to be asked all the time, it rarely happens. Now, now, I hear. But not all indigenous are the same. It's like, I know that I say that on a regular basis, so that's improving too. That may not be everyone's experience. And that's the point why it's so important to know your privilege. Because there's still way too many people that assume, if it was easy for me, it's easy. If it's easy for you, it's easy for everyone. If you were able to do this, everyone can do this. That's not the case. That if you had the same advantages that they have. I mean, there's First Nation communities that don't have Internet access or decent Internet access. That's privilege or lack thereof. Number 16. I can remain oblivious of the languages and customs of persons of color who are the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion. That's a yes. That's just living in a colonial state. Right. No one expects you to know what's going on. Like what's going on in Africa or their customs or the customs or traditions of anyone outside of white Christian. It's not expected. If you do, that would be cool, but if you don't, that's fine. So, yes, you can remain oblivious. Number 17. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider. That's a no for me. If I say anything against the government, it's because I'm indigenous and I'm condemning them and blah, blah, blah. So if you can do that, criticize the government and they don't blame it on your culture, then that's a yes for you. Just to be clear, 18. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the person in charge, I'll be facing a person of my race. No, no. There's not even enough women in leadership. Senior leadership, C suite CEO, cao, cfo, that kind of level, never mind indigenous. So no, but we're talking about race here, not sex. So if you're white, there's a really good chance you're gonna see a white owner, manager, whatever. 19. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if Revenue Canada audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race. By the way, Peggy's in the US So if you look at this, by the way, you can down this online. Just download this. Is she put it open source so anyone can use it. It's Peggy McIntosh. McIntosh. And it's called white privilege. Unpacking the invisible knapsack in her original one she mentions the IRS I put in Revenue Canada. So if a traffic cop pulls me over or the Revenue Canada audits my tax return, I can be pretty sure it's not because of my race. Foreign I'm gonna go no on this because if I get pulled over, okay, that's not got nothing to do with my race. But if I were to get audited it'd be because of my non taxable income. Another video? Yeah. So that would directly do with my race. Have to do with my race. 20. I can easily buy posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children magazine featuring people of my race. No. Getting better, but no. Is that true for you if you're white? Absolutely. You can 21. I can go home from most meanings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in rather than isolated, out of place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance, or feared. I'm gonna say no for that because unless it's a specific indigenous agency, I can think of agencies I belong to and they know I'm indigenous and I'm accepted for that. But it's still that arm's length. It's still isolated. It's still she's different. Right. So yeah, I'm going to say no for that. So if you can come home from your organizations and felt like you were tied in and belong to them, then that's a yes for you. I'm going to assume we all know what affirmative action is where you know the we want to hire a certain number of indigenous people or a certain number of newcomers, whatever it is. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race. That's a no. Well for when I would never go work for anyone ever again, but everyone would assume it's because I'm indigenous and they wanted to get their targets. Yeah, that's a. So if you're white, obviously there's not a target for you. So no one's going to assume you got it because of your race. 23. I can choose public accommodations without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen. So for me it's a yes. I travel all the time. I don't think I'm going to be treated differently. I look white. We got to own that. I got to own that. But we have documented cases in this city of floors and hotels set aside for indigenous people. The I have had business colleagues from other cities travel to the city I live in, by the way. I live in the city of Thunder Bay, Ontario, which is known for its anti indigenous racism, known nationally. And it's well earned. It's denied by our municipal government, but it is well earned. I have had colleagues coming in from Toronto or out west and they can't believe front desk clerks at our hotels, how the attitude changes from talking to them to talking to an indigenous client or customer or guest, whatever. So for me it's not an issue. Definite issue for a lot of indigenous people or people of color. 24. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me. Well, that's not true. That's a no. And I was just watching a video on this the other day how it's still documenting, still proven in medical practice that for black people it's assumed they can tolerate higher pain. What? For indigenous people there are so many assumptions made. Assumptions that we're diabetic, assumption that we have high blood pressure, assumption that we drink, assumption that we're poor, like just. Yeah, so it does play against us. 25. Almost done here. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need to ask, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation, whether it had racial overtones. So if your day went badly and you never think it's because of your race, you can say yes to this. I'm gonna say no to that one. And it makes me really sad because if something goes wrong, it's often to do with someone hanging on to their stereotypes, judging, condemning, having to deal with the idiots, as I often say, Last but not least, if I could. This one blew me away when I first did the quiz. By the way, I can choose blemish cover like foundation or you know, to cover your red spots or bandages in flesh color and have them more or less match my skin. That's a yes for me because I have fair skin. Never even thought that for all those years the little dark skinned kids were wearing band aids that did not match their flesh color. That's why Rayana's makeup like, I mean it wasn't that long ago, within 10 years that she came out with the different foundations, shades actually for darker skin, skin sounded 26. How many S's did you get? Wow. Wow. Adding again just to make sure. Oh, I counted wrong. Try that one more time. Look at me. I am a white presenting indigenous person. But because I'm indigenous, even in my case, I got 10 under 26. The story I wanted to tell you earlier is way back when, when I had my TV show the Learning Curve. I got a girlfriend to come on the show with me and we each did the quiz beforehand, didn't talk about it, and revealed our answers on the program. I was so naive back then and I felt bad for her because she felt uncomfortable admitting she got 26 out of 26. I was blown away because, and I had known her for a long time. We just never had the discussion. You could use this quiz to have the discussion. You know what? Maybe I'll try to find a link and put it in the description below. Make it easy for you to get your hands on the quiz so you can have this discussion. At the time, I don't know what my score was. I think it was seven or eight. So I'm up to 10. Canada, we can do better. And the next time you want to comment about what you can do or why don't other people do whatever, make sure it's not something you can do because of your privilege. Make sure you're not just assuming that they can do it. Back to my first comment at the beginning of this podcast. Unpack how you treat people. What are the assumptions you make about indigenous people? Why they behave the way they do? Why they're so quiet while they're all that BS that they don't look you in the eye because they're being respectful? Look up oppression and when it does, to people and you'll have a more accurate description. Privilege. Now you know. Until next week. I love you. Take care. Bye. Bye.