TLC Answers the Question "Are Indigenous Peoples a Drain on the Economy?"

Hi, everybody. My name is Sandy Boucher, and welcome back to the Learning Curve. If you've checked out the show before, thank you very much for returning. I hope you've been telling your friends all about the show. And if this is your first time checking out the learning curve, I want to take a few minutes just to explain, explain the reasoning behind the show. So we are not here to convince you of anything. What I'm here to do is just share information with you. Because the reality is we live and care about, live in and care about the city of Thunder Bay. But there's these conversations happening in Thunder Bay, whether they're in coffee shops or in boardrooms or maybe even your dining room table. And sometimes opinions shared or stories shared in those conversations are not necessarily based on fact or they're based on misinformation, because that's all you've been able to get your hands on. That's what the Learning Curve is all about. All we do is share information with you so you can take it back to those conversations, share it with your colleagues, share it with your friends, and add it to your knowledge base so that you become an informed and empowered citizen of the city of Thunder Bay. It's all about clearing up misunderstandings between indigenous and non indigenous people here in the city in ways that you may not be able to get by checking the newspaper or even Googling, because we're going to make it local and we make it relevant. So today is a perfect example of that. Today I'm going to introduce you to Carrie Chapeta. Now, she's an event planner in the city, and her and I are going to take our shot at shattering a stereotype. This time we're going after that concept or that belief out there that Indigenous people are a drain on the economy. We want to share some information with you today that may just change your mind from what you currently believe. So, as always, go grab that coffee, head for your comfy chair, and I'll see you in a few minutes as you and I once again walk through the learning curve. Hi, everybody, and welcome back to the Learning Curve. Once again, my name is Sandy Boucher and this is Karen Terry Chapetta. Thank you for coming out today.

Thanks for having me.

I was hoping you would come out because as I mentioned in the opening, this is such an important topic. It's something someone needs to speak to, right? Because you can only use the information you have. And if we don't add more information into this conversation, it's going to keep happening before we get into that, though. I don't know if you've seen any of the other episodes of the show, but one of the things I really love to stress is we are people working with people. This is not about topics, it's people working together. So this is my favorite part of the show, I swear to God, because I bring on either really good friends or people I've just met. And by asking them, where are you from and where you went to school? I always end up finding out something I didn't know. So it's amazing. So I don't know. Are you born and raised Thunder Bay?

I. I am born and raised in Thunder Bay. Went to high school here, went to college here. It is absolutely my hometown for life.

Way to go. So what high school?

Out of curiosity, I went to FWCI.

Wow. Yeah, that's Thunder Bay to the 9th. That's awesome. And like, I've known you for a while now, but when I was thinking about the show, I was like, I don't know that. I don't know.

You wouldn't know that.

Right. So that's amazing. So thank you for that. So, as I mentioned in the opening, we are talking about a stereotype today and the fact that there's quite a few people out there that honestly believe that Indigenous people are a drain on the economy from a financial perspective. Now, if you've watched past shows, Professor Travis Hay was on a couple shows ago and he made reference to a report that Thunder Bay Ventures did, and I actually have a copy of that report and it's called Poised for Development, Ready for Growth. I wanted to share some factual information with you and just for info's sake, this was done in June of 2013. There is a section in this report dedicated to economic contributions of the Aboriginal population. So what it says is the Aboriginal community makes a significant contribution to the Thunder Bay economy. Specifically, the contribution of the Aboriginal workforce to Thunder Bay's GDP was estimated to be in the range of 5.09%, which is $254.38 million, up to 7.67%, which is $3.3 $83.33 million in 2012. Although not comprehensively accounted for in the current study, it's important to stress that the Aboriginal community in the surrounding region also has a significant impact on Thunder Bay's economy. As community members, students, businesses, community leaders and their staff frequently travel to the city for business and personal purposes. The Aboriginal economic activities, organizations and businesses provide employment opportunities for both Aboriginal and non Aboriginal residents in Thunder Bay. Given the population trends and a growing aboriginal economy, it is expected that the aboriginal contribution to the city's economy will continue to grow and contribute to urban sustainability as regional economies develop and labor force participation rates continue to rise. And that is such a perfect tie in for the work you do, which is why I wanted you here today. So first and foremost, just totally casually here and common English, not $15 words, as my mom would say. Do you believe the indigenous population is contributing to the economy? Like that report?

Absolutely. 100%. I see it every day.

Okay, so for the audience's sake, you are an event planner.

I am.

Right. And how long have you been doing that?

11 years.

Wow, she's really good. Just gotta say that. Anyways, okay, so what kind of things you do? I know you do conferences. What other kind of stuff you do?

I do. I do a lot of conferences, both locally, regionally, provincially and nationally. I also have done seminars. I do workshops, staff development type workshops. And a large portion of my business is with indigenous organizations.

Exactly. Which is how our paths cross. Now we're going to talk about it later because I really got to find out how that happened because people ask me all the time, how do I grow my business? They see the indigenous population is growing. They know that's their future customer base, but they're not sure how to enter that. And you seem to just have naturally done it. But before, before we go into there, let's talk about those. Those gatherings for a second. So now I've been at provincial events. You've done. So how many people are there?

I have events that range from, you know, 50 or 60 people all the way up to 300, 400 people.

Okay, that's what I was thinking because the one I was at is probably closer to 300.

350.

Yeah, exactly. And you do national conferences too?

I do, yep.

Wow. And then down to one day seminars. Yep. Are they all like in the city or you.

No, I do. I go all over our region, our province and our country. I do a lot of Ontario, Northern Ontario work, for sure.

Okay, so just. And I want to ballpark it here because I don't want to be sharing any information we shouldn't be sharing here. We can't cross those lines. But indigenous population, one of your indigenous events, if we're talking two, 300 people. Right. Two, three days. What kind of ballpark are you looking at for a cost on something like that? And I realize it would have to be a gas because there's so many.

Things that go into that. So it totally depends on if the event is funded or if it's not funded. If it's a funded event and we're covering travel for people, travel from Northern Reserves is extremely expensive, so those kinds of budgets are quite a bit higher. But roughly, if it's just a regular conference where people are paying registration, registration fees and coming to an event for a couple days, it's usually about 40 to 50,000 just for one conference. But I've had conferences up of 250,000 for a few days.

Wow, okay. I knew you played with some serious numbers and a lot of moving pieces, but I had no idea. So I'm naive here, which is really good because then I'm going to sit right with the audience on this one. So hotel, definitely they're benefiting from. What other kind of things are money being spent spent on?

So restaurants.

Oh, okay.

For sure. In surrounding areas. Shopping. If people are coming in from the region and they don't get to Thunder Bay or they don't get to where, whatever city the conference is in, then they're spending money at local shops, which is wonderful. Even entertainment. Oftentimes we'll have entertainment as part of the evening activities for events. And people always seem to enjoy coming out to those kinds of things. Transportation even.

Yeah, exactly. The cabs and the other thing I was thinking when you said events or the entertainment, even if you didn't bring it in as part of the conference, they're going somewhere evening. Right. And I know as the speaker that travels around Canada, I won't name the cities, but I've pretty much left my speaking fee in some cities by hitting the malls.

And I see it all the time.

Right. And I always have to laugh. It's like, no, no, don't worry, I'm not taking anything out of your economy because you got it all back. Right. So yeah, so that's a lot. And then you've got all the printing and everything that goes in for you.

All of the giveaways that you know, sway for conferences and even travel. I deal with a local Travel agent that's 100% Indigenous owned, which I support all the time specifically because of that. And so I deal solely with them because of that. And so we bring lots of money in, travel wise.

Yeah, exactly. And you touched on something that I don't. We've casually touched on it in the news, but I don't think people really understand just how expensive it is to travel to and from a northern community. Like I have seen ridiculous fees when I see. Because they book My travel for me. So they just send me the ticket, and when I see what they paid for that. Yes.

There's no way around it.

Yeah. And it's very limited access. Right. It's not like there's 20 different airlines going to Sandy Lake.

Right.

So, yeah. Wow. Unreal. Why did you get into this event planning? I mean, I asked her that all the time because I know the work that goes into doing an event.

Do you want the long story or the short story?

Go for it.

You know what I mean? I was sort of at a crossroads in my career about 11 years ago, and I sat down and made a list of all the things that make me happy with work. And then I looked at the list and thought I could so start a company doing all this fun stuff. And so I did. I love detail work. I love relationship building. And that is conference planning in a nutshell right there.

As a speaker, I appreciate event planners because, like, none of that is on my list of fun, fun things to do because I've seen you in action and there's so many. Anyone out there, and I know there's a lot of you out there that have planned a day's training for your staff or whatever. There are so many little pieces that go into that, and they're all moving.

I love them all.

And she smiles all the time. I don't get it. Unreal. So, okay, that's excellent. We're going to take a break, and when we come back, we're going to talk about that. I alluded to it a few minutes ago. I have so many mainstream businesses and companies coming to me, and they realize the Aboriginal population is growing. They want to grow that customer base, and they don't know how. And obviously you've tripped over success in that area. So we're gonna get her to share some of her secrets, hopefully. So you have a few minutes to go refresh that coffee and then come back into that comfy chair, and we'll see you in a few moments. Hi, everybody, and welcome back from the Learning Curve. Once again, I'm Sandy Boucher, and today we're talking to Kerry Chapeta, event planner extraordinaire. So, as I mentioned before the break there, I don't know if you get the questions, but I get the questions all the time. Companies are reaching out. I mean, if you're in business, you want to grow, you're growing your customer base, and they're seeing the stats. We just saw the latest statistics that the Aboriginal population in Thunder Bay is definitely growing. And I'VE had businesses reach out to me and say, like, I got to figure out how to do this. I got to figure out how to. To be welcoming to the aboriginal population or them to look at me as one of the people they want to work with. And you just naturally went and did it. Like I said, I met you because of all the work you do with Indigenous communities. So what's the secret?

You know, I didn't actually ever set out to go that route. But it turns out that like I said earlier, a majority of the work I do is with indigenous organizations. And I was trying to think when you asked me to come on the show, what is it that has made me successful in that area? And it's about respect, it's about trust, and it's about asking a lot of questions. So I spend a lot of time building strong relationships with my clients. It's not just about going in and doing the work I need them to. I need to have a personal relationship with them and build some trust before I can work with them.

I love this show. Did you guys hear that? If you haven't watched past shows, the very first show I did with Jenna, Ray Yurza, you know, talked about relationships, that it's about relationship building. And when you said that, I had no idea what her answer was going to be. When you said that, I just had to smile because it's like. And there's the full circle.

It is. And this comes back, it's relationships. And also Thunder Bay and Northern Ontario and our region is very small, although it's vast and word of mouth is really big. And so if you take the time to build relationships that aren't just on the professional level, but a little bit more personal and get to know the people that you're working with, they will tell others and even trust. If I say I'm going to do something for a client, I always do it. I always follow through and so I build that trust and then they feel confident to refer me to other people.

So in the beginning, I'm curious now, now this could become a three hour show. So I have to be careful here. But did you specifically with your marketing, you're in business, I assume you did some kind of marketing or word of mouth or something. She's smiling. Maybe she didn't. But did you specifically target indigenous people or what happened?

I didn't at all. And I actually did very little marketing other than to just put the word out that you were willing to do that. I was ready to work. I did one of my first contracts when I started my company was with an organization. Can I tell you which organization? Sure, go for it. Sure. It was with ANWA and the executive director at the time, who is a phenomenal woman, Sally Ledger. Oh, I love her, but she taught me so much about indigenous culture and working with indigenous people and I learned a ton from her. And that just sort of grew over time, but that sort of started me on the path.

And I think you just touched on a key that maybe you didn't realize and, or didn't appreciate because you do it so naturally. But you were willing to listen and learn.

Yes.

And I think that is huge. That, that I'm actually, you know, that's a lot of the work I do that if you go in there thinking, you know all the answers, which is an attitude that's really awarded, rewarded in non indigenous culture, that's not gonna work. Red's not gonna fly. Right. We know that because we know our communities and we know our people. So like. And when someone, if there's one, and I've mentioned this on shows previously, if there's one, call or cry. I hear from Indigenous communities across Canada when I travel. It's we want to be heard. We want to be heard. And that's not just sitting quiet long enough for us to talk. It's actually hearing us and understanding and changing something to be able to accommodate that.

So I ask a lot of questions. I ask a lot of questions about what my clients want in their events, but also about the culture and about. I need to be respectful of the culture. It's extremely important to me that I don't do things that are offensive. And so I ask a lot of questions and, and people are always very, very open to walking me through processes and teaching me, which I'm extremely grateful for.

We just love being asked. That's when you know, it doesn't surprise me at all that they're so willing to share with you because that right away just puts us in a comfortable place. Here's someone that cares to learn this stuff.

So that's awesome. The other thing that, that I do when I'm working, if I get hired by an organization to put on a conference, I always ask to have a committee that I can work with that I could use their brains. I can't put an entire conference on. I can do the logistics, but I need their brains to tell me processes and to tell me who to invite and to let them guide that process. So I work really closely with many different committees and do the things that they want me to do.

That's. Yeah. And. And I can just see that as preventing you from stepping on toes. Right. Like, if you ask, then you're just on the safe ground. Right?

That's right.

So that's awesome. And I just thought of something because one of the other misnomers out there is the fact that all Indigenous people are the same. And that's so not the case. Never mind the fact that Ojibwe is totally different from Cree, totally different from Haudenosaunee in Southern Ontario or whatever the case may be, or Coast Salish out in bc. But there's differences, community to community. And you do regional, provincial, national events. You're doing a cross cultural event, even if it's all Indigenous.

I am.

Wow.

So I ask a ton of questions. I get input from elders. At most of my event, there's elders that guide process. And again, the big thing is asking questions and being respectful and trusting. Awesome.

Now there's another. We're actually just shattering stereotypes left, right and center today because I'm going to touch on the third one right now. Right. So we. Yes, they contribute to the economy. Right. And as I just said, different cultures, not all Indigenous people are the same. The third one, there is this belief, or a better way of putting it, that it's iffy to work with Indigenous people, to enter that contract. You're not going to get paid or the payment's going to take forever, or there's going to be a lot of issues. So I don't know what your answer is. We didn't discuss this ahead of time, but I wanted to ask you, what does that hold any water?

It hasn't ever held water for me in 11 years. I was trying to think, because I knew you were going to ask the question and I was trying to think of if I've ever had a difficult time getting paid from clients. Indigenous clients. I never, ever have. Usually when I'm working with a client for the first time, I'll get a certain percentage up front. But if I have a relationship and I've worked with clients before, I just invoice on whatever terms they want. And I have never, ever had an issue, ever.

Now, some of your events are funded, you mentioned, and I know because I used to work in the non profit world, government funding is not always the fastest in landing at the door, let's put it that way. So has that ever played into it or you knew that ahead of time?

Well, you know, it hasn't because normally by the time I'm brought into the process. The funding is already. It's already there and it's just waiting. And so I have never actually had that issue. Wow. I have heard of other people who have because of funding, but it's never happened to me.

Wow, that's awesome. So any downfalls, any challenges that you face?

The challenges that I face, I always say that when I'm working with new clients. And this doesn't have to be indigenous clients, it could be any clients. I have to learn the dance I'm doing with them because I. Because it's a different process for every single client I'm working with. And so when I'm working with any clients, I just have to learn the dance that I have to do with them. I have to ask lots of questions. And that's just working with people generally. I wouldn't consider it a challenge. It just is what it is. Yeah, exactly.

And I had to smile when you said that as well, because I know I surprise people when I'm working with them because I'm very open and transparent and I'm going to tell them everything. And if anything, they hear from me too often, as opposed to. Right. They're just not used to me being involved with the process. Right. And I would rather them be totally informed and tell me, no, it's okay, we trust you, than to make the mistake of just going ahead and assuming they're going to trust me.

That's right. I have to tell you, though, that when I get contracts based on word of mouth because another client or somebody that's been at one of my events has recommended me, that is.

Right.

Priceless to me because I know that I've. The time that I spend building relationships and the time that I spend asking the questions, it's worth it. Tenfold. Yeah.

That's the best. That's a compliment, like, to the highest level. Right. So you're not going anywhere. You're not changing careers. You're going to be doing this for a long time to come.

I am sticking around. I am not going anywhere. I love what I do. It makes me happy every single day. I. And I couldn't imagine doing anything else.

Awesome. And I have to say we're already coming to the end of the show. But I have to say, it's people like you and so many of my guests that are on the show, they give me hope as an indigenous woman. Because you are non indigenous. I didn't ask that. Right. You are non indigenous. But you're living proof that respectful, enjoyable relationships are possible. You're in business so they're profitable. The communities are getting what they need or the agency. So it is doable. We can figure this out, right?

So awesome.

Thank you so so much for coming out today. The time just flew by. As always. It happens every single time we sit in these chairs. So thank you.

Thanks for having me.

Awesome as always. Please take the information you heard today and there was a lot of information and share it with your friends. Share it in those conversations. Ask your friends if they knew about this, how much money is coming into the economy because of indigenous communities and agencies and groups that are using the services in our city. And please keep in mind that if you're working in this city, well, Kerry's an absolute example of how to build those bridges and how to work with the indigenous people that are living on their land and enjoying being here and together walking through the learning curve, we can figure out how to do this. Until next time, take care of yourself. Bye bye.