TLC Discussing Films & Thunder Bay

Foreign. Hi, everybody, my name is Sandy Boucher and welcome back to the Learning Curve. Before I start telling you about today's amazing episode, again, I just want to say a big thank you achieve to all of those people that are still tracking me down in the mall or sending me an email just to share how much they're learning from this show. And that's the reason I agreed to do it. That's the reason we wanted to do this. So that, as you know, for anyone who's watched the show before, this is all about sharing information. I am not here to change your mind. What I want to do is give you valid, accurate information so that when you get into that conversation, whether it's in a staff room, in a boardroom, or at your kitchen table, that you have the facts to add to that conversation. There's just a lot of misunderstanding and stereotypes out there that we still need to clarify. And that's what this show is all about. Now, for any of you who know me, you know that thanks to my career, there's a whole bunch of moments in my life where I just kind of stop and can't believe that I have the opportunities that I do, including telling people that I now host a TV show. Honestly, as an indigenous woman growing up in Northern Ontario, I just never thought I would say those words. And I totally appreciate that opportunity. Today, as I was driving out here to shoot this episode, I couldn't help wondering, I wonder if our guest ever feels that way, because you're going to meet an amazing young woman, a lot younger than me, who has already achieved absolutely amazing things. Today, I'm going to introduce you to Ardell Sagichaway. Now, she's one of those northern students that people love to talk about, someone that came to the city from a remote community to go to school. We're going to talk to her about her experience and an amazing film that she's part of as an associate director. So, as always, you're not going to want to miss this. So go get your coffee, get comfy in that favorite chair and. And I'll meet you back here in a few minutes as together we walk through the learning curve. Hi, everybody, and welcome back to the Learning Curve. Once again, I'm Sandy Boucher, the host. The host. I can talk today, honest. And here is Ardell Sagichaway. So thank you so much for coming out today.

Thanks for inviting me.

Are you kidding? I've wanted you here for quite some time just watching your career. We're Facebook friends, so I admire her. From afar and just watching what you've achieved, it's just. It's amazing. You're an inspiration. I hope you know that.

Thanks.

Okay, so the way you've seen past shows. So I always. And this is a teaching I received from Jenna Rae Yurza, so. Who I absolutely admire. And she was my very first guest. Isn't she fantastic?

She is.

Shout out to Jana. Yeah. But she always reminded me that it's not about topics, it's about people. It's about relationships. So as part of my show, I always like to make sure the audience knows who my guest is, that it's not just about whatever topic we're discussing today, that you're a human being with. You're multifaceted with all these different things going on. So let's. And this is my favorite part of the show, honestly, because some people I don't know at all, and I invited them on. Some people I've known forever, but I always find out something new, so this is easily my best part. So where are you from? How long you been in the city?

Okay. I originally from Yamitun First Nation.

Oh, okay. I didn't know that.

Fort Hope, Ontario. I was born and raised there up until I was 13. And then I moved out to Thunder Bay for high school.

Okay. At 13.

Yes.

Wow.

And I was here for about five years trying to get my high school diploma. I was never successful, you know, with that goal. But then at the end of that journey, I decided it was time to go home for a while to reconnect with my family and the community. And it was in those years that I decided that I wanted to further educate myself. And then I moved back up to Thunder Bay for post secondary.

Okay, so you came back for school or you moved here?

I moved here.

Wow. Okay, so we're gonna backtrack for a sec. I got to go to Fort Hope this summer.

Oh, cool.

For the first time. And I was like, oh, my God. Because I had heard so much about it. It is way bigger than I thought. Like, huge.

Yeah.

Like, I don't know what I was thinking. Remote community, and you think 200 people. But it's like.

It's about a thousand people on reserve and we have about over 500 off reserve. So, like, people living here or Sault Ste. Marie, but sort of like in this. In this area.

Exactly. Because it was amazing. The host that brought me up there, she was nice enough to drive me around the community and show me, and it seemed like we just kept driving and there was more houses and we drove and more houses and drove. And it just blew me away. And I realized that misconception I had. So you have family up there? Do you have siblings?

Yes, I have three younger siblings.

Oh, so you're the eldest?

I'm the eldest.

Wow.

My youngest sibling is actually my boarding student now. So, yeah, he's 16 and he's a pretty good kid. He's in grade 11 now, and he's almost done. Oh, my God.

Grade 11. So close. So close.

I know.

So you came out at 13. Now, which high school did you go to?

Churchill. Oh, I went to Churchill. Yeah.

That's the one we're about to lose, right? Yeah.

I think it's got another year left in service.

Okay, so. Wow.

Churchill is right across from dfc.

Exactly. Right next door. They're not really hanging out together.

No, no. There was a very clear divide between the two high schools.

I don't know if you saw the show with Professor Travis Hay. So he went to Churchill?

Yes, I heard him talk to him. He had the same head librarian as me.

But I love the fact he gave me so much hope because he's not Indigenous in any way, shape or form. But he noticed the divide. He noticed the difference in treatment in schools and whatever. And for a young man to be aware of that and actually care, it was like, thank you. Thank you. That's, you know, that's what I needed to hear. To keep going and fight the good fight kind of thing. Right. You know what I'm talking about. So you are. I want to get this right, referring to my notes here, one of the associate directors of a film called Coming Together to Talk. So it involved you, Kasha Adams, Savannah Boucher and Michelle Derozier. And the tagline was exploring realities of Indigenous youth and possibilities for change. You're an associate director of a film. I'd be putting that up.

I'm still getting used to that title.

I can so relate. I'd want to be putting that on a T shirt or something like, oh, my God, that's fantastic how there's Indigenous youth out there watching this, going, how did that happen? So I'm asking.

I'm still asking myself that.

So walk us through it. How did it happen?

Well, like, Michelle is a big, you know, community member. You know, she's well known in Thunder Bay. And I have been doing work with the Ontario Provincial Advocates Office. They were part of the inquest.

Yes.

And so I had been going to the inquest and learning about the court systems and just sort of how it's Played a role in how we lost those seven young people here in Thunder Bay. And she asked me out for coffee one day and she was like, I have this idea. I want to do this project. It was originally supposed to be a follow up to Walk a Mile, but as you know, there was issues during the training facility, like the facilitation. And so from that, we decided it was time to go separately from Walk a Mile and make this more focused on indigenous youths.

Awesome. And Michelle is the biggest advocate for indigenous youth. Youth. The other thing that I love about her is she's all about authenticity. Like, she doesn't want to mess with anyone's voice. Right. So I can see her really holding as sacred your voices, especially because you were youth and vulnerable or perceived as vulnerable in this city. Right. Facing all those challenges, I can see why she'd do the. The Mama Bear and. No, yeah, yeah, I'm protecting these kids.

Totally did that.

Exactly. So she approached you with this idea. You went for coffee. I'm gonna backtrack for a sec. So you know Chantal Bryson, too.

Yes.

I just. I didn't even put that clip together.

Until you mentioned she was the lawyer for the provincial advocates office.

Exactly.

So she was like, through. I was going to the courthouse too, and she was there, and it was just really supporting each other. And in that whole process, because it was crazy.

It's like, yeah, I can't even imagine. Not even going to pretend that I can't imagine it. Like. And I've heard information and I've heard stories, but, yeah, I would never want to minimize it by pretending that I can imagine what that was like, you know? I know. So Michelle presents this idea to you and it involves you guys telling your stories.

Yes. Yes.

So how did that sit in the tummy? Did you want to do that or were you apprehensive or.

I was nervous, for sure. You know, like, it's a big part of my past and my history. And as much as I want to ignore it, you know, and pretend it didn't happen, it did happen. And I feel like it's still happening to young people. And, you know, Cindy Blackstock, she's my hero, but her quote is, you know, we need to raise children that are not recovering from their childhood.

Wow.

And that's sort of like, for me, when I share my story, I'm helping the next generation.

Right. And then that's. We have that in common. And I always. I'm coming at it from the 53 year old angle, mind you. But my thought, I Have grandchildren now. And so I'm. I always say, if you thought I was an activist when I was a mom, now I'm a grandma. Because I'm not going to be here to protect them is the part that resonates for me. So we got to start fixing stuff now before I leave, because they're the ones that are going to have to live in this. Right. So that's so huge. Now, as I mentioned in the opening, so you're one of these youth we love to talk about in coffee shops, at the dinner table. They came from a remote community for school. So I'm going to put you on the spot here.

Okay.

On a scale of 1 to 10, so one worst experience ever, you can imagine it being worse. 10. It was like the best experience. And you want everyone to sign up to do it. What was it like to have to come to school, leave home and come and attend school here in Thunder Bay? Well, where on that scale would you put it?

Four.

Okay. Yeah.

Three. Yeah. You know, it definitely does. Has its benefits. You know, we get educated, you know, and they tell us that we need to be educated in order to be successful. And that's the goal. And as young people, you know.

To.

Move away that young, you know, for, for that big of a goal by yourself, I think it's, it's pretty like traumatic, you know, and it's just, it's, it's almost like ripping a piece of yourself out, you know, like, and having to leave it there.

Yeah.

Because you don't want, like, you want to protect it from where you're going because, you know, it's not, you know, the world is not out to help you pretty much.

And you were the eldest, so you were the first in your family to go of the kids.

Yes.

So it's not like you can go to an older sibling to say, so how do you do this or how.

Do you do that?

And honestly, when you mentioned you left at 13, so I, the little mental flashback to when I was 13, I was, I was so shallow. I would have been worrying about what to wear to school or do I fit in with my friends and not, not something as how do I negotiate living on my own? Like back then, you're fighting against your parents, not wishing they were here.

Yeah, yeah. It's a total like indigenous young people have a completely different life to non indigenous young people. And a lot of like the older generation don't understand there's that huge difference that's becoming a barrier for a lot.

Of, well, what a huge Price to have to pay to get an education.

Yeah.

That is supposed to be accessible to all youth in Canada. Right.

Unfortunately, you know, some people, some young people have paid with their lives.

Exactly. We're gonna. That's. That's a powerful way to go into a commercial break. That's absolutely true. So we are gonna take a break, go refill that coffee and head back to your comfy chair. And we'll be back in a few moments. Hi, everybody, and welcome back to the Learning Curve. Once again, I'm Sandy Boucher, and today we're talking to Ardells to get your way. I've mastered your last name. Now. I'm just gonna keep saying it as often as I can. So I did want to. We were talking about the film that you were part of, and you touched on something that was so important before the break. And it's something that I tried to stress, especially with non indigenous people and just to make sure they stay in the right place. I don't want the youth grouped together. It is such a personal journey and a personal experience, personal challenges that I think it really minimizes when we start talking en masse about these. These kids. Right. And I don't think anyone would want that done with their child. So we really got to be conscious of the way we share words. Words are powerful. Right. So cbc. Jody Porter wrote an article, and it was almost just over a year ago. I looked at the date. It was like December 8th. So it was like, oh, my God. So what it said was, dell's get away. Ha. Got it. Another of the associate directors explains how the racism she encountered in the emergency room of the hospital after a suicide attempt motivated her to pursue a career in nursing so that others might not have to experience what she did. Now, that's an incredibly personal situation. Been there, done that. So I know how dark and how scary that is. So first and foremost, I want to say I'm so sorry that you ever found your place in that. Found yourself in that dark place. And way too many of our youth, any youth, any. Any nationality, any background find themselves there. And it's scary and it's overwhelming and it's powerful. So you ended up in Emerge. Yeah. Did you. What happened, if you don't mind me asking?

Yeah, I had taken an overdose. I had done an overdose. But they thought, like, the people at the emergency room thought I was drunk.

Oh.

And they thought I was. I was. I was. I just needed to sleep it off. Fortunately, one of our body's reflexes is to try and get Rid of goes into production mode. Yeah. So I ended up. What I ended up just naturally is just throwing up all those pills and I did sleep it off, and then I was just sort of like in shock the next morning, like. And I just laughed after that. I was like. I didn't want to have to deal with. With that. And I didn't want to tell them too, because really, you know, what. What could they have done?

Wow. And you're not feeling warm and supported.

No.

In this environment at all. Now, I hope you don't mind, and if I ask anything you don't want to answer, feel free to say that I'm totally cool with that. So. But I'm just trying to clarify, like, did you take yourself to the hospital or you got taken.

I got taken to the hospital, yeah.

Like by the ambulance.

Yeah.

Okay, so you're there by yourself. Were you unconscious when they took you?

Yeah, yeah. And then I had woken up in the emergency room and then I. I threw up the pills that I had taken and nobody came to check on.

So if you didn't wake up, if those pills just did there. Oh, God. Okay, that's scary.

It is scary. And I think about our young people, you know, who are dealing with their own mental health, you know, and just sort of the experiences they have going through these cycles and these processes, you know, in trying to get help. And there's like so much barriers in place for our young people, any young people, you know, it's.

And then it's just magnified for hours. Because I was thinking back those people that think, you know, my teen years were the best years. I don't know what school they went to or what teen years they're thinking of because, I mean, it's not like there wasn't good times, but it's a very emotional time. There's a lot of pressure. Right.

Yeah.

You're trying to decide who you are as an individual, but you don't want to go too fast and you're fighting against everything. And I remember the suicidal thoughts. And I wasn't away from home in a strange city. Like the fact that that happens to every teen. Oh, and by the way, we're also going to send you away from your supports to go to school.

Yeah.

The other thing that always comes to my mind, and I don't know, I assume it's popped into yours at some point, is I always think of the parents you would have left behind because our parents and grandparents did the residential school.

Yeah.

And were the kids that were taken away Right. They're still in a situation where they have to watch their kids leave to go to school.

Yeah.

It may not be the residential schools, you know, plan.

It's just. It's just updated to fit the modern times.

Exactly. So it's not four and five year olds leaving anymore, but you are still watching your child going away. I. I can't. Honestly, again, I can't even imagine. I can't imagine how a parent would deal with that. And then not having the choice. Your child has to be educated.

Not. Not having a choice. It's mandatory for all kids in Canada to go to school.

Yeah.

And it's just that in some situations, they don't provide the best opportunity to be educated.

Exactly. And the culture shock, let's not forget that. I know. I was at a gathering the other day and the woman that was sharing was from another remote community. And she shared how when she first came to the city, she almost got hit by a car. And the statement that really resonated with me was that light bulb moment was she said she almost got hit by a car because she had only seen traffic lights on tv in a movie.

Yeah.

She's never had to wait for the green light kind of thing. And when she said that, like, we know it's dramatically different, but when you hear that statement, it's like, whoa. Like, right. Like that's a whole different ball game. Like the difference between you're now living in this life that you've only seen.

On TV or read about in the books.

Right. Like, I can't even imagine. So now you, how old were you at this point?

17.

Okay, so this was the high school part.

Yeah.

Okay. So that didn't work out. You decided that this isn't working for me. This is too hard, too scary. I'm going back home.

I need to go home to be with my family.

Yep. And funny thing, when I was in Fort Hope, and it's so perfect. You're from Fort Hope. When I was up there doing a seminar, and when it finished, I asked them if they could do me a favor. The women in the session. And they were like, okay. I mean, amazing, friendly people up there.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

So I said, you know what? I get asked all the time, and I'm not really comfy answering for someone else. So I'm going to ask you guys, I hear all the time that why don't they just leave? If it's so horrible in the remote communities, why don't they just leave? So I'm gonna ask you guys why don't you just leave? I couldn't have planned it better. It was like this choir response, and all they said is, because this is home.

Yeah.

And I was like, I so get that. There's many that wouldn't get. Get that. But it's comfortable. You're going back to what you know, even if it means maybe you're walking away from this dream people want you to sign up for. You're going back home.

You're going back home. You're going back to where you started.

Yeah. But you chose to come back. You. You rallied the troops inside you, and you came back. So where are you sitting now? What are. What's on the plans? What are you up to these days?

I'm just. Just currently taking a break from school. Just actively working with the film, you know, trying to screen it in town, and I'm working. Trying to get it into the schools. Okay, awesome.

Interesting. Yeah, we may have to do coffee and talk about that. It's like, really? You're trying to get it out there? I think I'm interested in that. So. Awesome. Like I said, I knew you really from Facebook, and we tend to attend the same committee meetings. Exactly.

Yeah.

We run into each other on the same path or they're really close to each other. So I just wanted to say how incredibly proud of you I am.

Thank you.

You have an amazing story and you're brave enough to share it for the sake of the other people, and that just can't be underestimated. So thank you so much for coming out today. Our time is up. Can you believe it already? We definitely have to do coffee and talk about that film. So thank you for coming out today.

You're welcome. Thanks. Thanks for inviting me as always.

Lots of information to share, and I really hope that it's helping you to put the person into these stories. When you hear about the youth, think of your child and think. Think of what supports you would want for your child if they had to be sent away to school, if they're dealing with things that they've only seen on tv, on top of all of the challenges that are already part of a teenager's life. As always, I invite you to use what you learned today and share it in those conversations. Be gutsy enough to speak up when someone says something crazy. You can say, well, you know what? Actually, I watched this TV show and I learned something totally different. Please tell your friends about the learning curve. And until next time, take care of yourself. Bye now.