The Hard Stuff Is Ok!

Jerry, hello!

I don't know, it just delights me every single time. I should just, I should just every once in a while just go live just for that, like, waiting to, to see when it really happens. How are you doing, Shawn?

I'm doing great. And yeah, I think it is fun. You never know exactly when it's gonna go live, right?

I love that. And you know, it's funny because we always come on If anybody's heard us before, we're always here right after we have the Hard Stuff Is Okay group in Growth Day. And it just suddenly occurred to me that, like, something that can be stressful in one situation can be fun in another. And I don't know, that just occurred to me in the moment. Like, the idea of not knowing exactly when it's going to go live could be stressful. But I don't know why it isn't. Instead, it's fun. And it makes me think, how do I— I should be able to transfer that that joy of the uncertainty to places where uncertainty stresses me out.

Right. I think it's the high-performance thing with like high-performing athletes where anxiety and excitement actually feel the same in the body. It's just how you're channeling it. And like, we get to have a beautiful conversation about a topic we care deeply about. And so That's excitement. But like, you have to do an impromptu speech in front of people that are there to talk about your book. Completely different. Like, you still will have the good experience, but we freak ourselves out and like, what if my zipper's down or I got something in my face or something in my teeth? And like, you know, all those things. And that stuff still happens, right?

It's— yeah. I love it. I love it. Do we usually give— I think we give our usual, like, let's give a little abbreviated why we're here. Yeah, it's always— yeah, go ahead.

You go ahead. I'll let you take control. You got it.

So Shawn and I are both high performance coaches. And sometimes that word I don't like— sometimes I don't like the phrase high performance because I feel like that in itself sometimes instills this sense of like, gotta do more, gotta be more, gotta, gotta, gotta. When actually, you know, I think that the intention of it is like to really like live our best life. And, and one of the things that we both noticed a number of years ago when we were having coffee together is that sometimes there's a, there's a tendency in the world of successful people to want to not express or talk about or be, um, to be— what am I trying? I feel like I'm stumbling. Talk about stumbling. To not be with the hard stuff. To not be with the hard stuff. You better pick it up because I'm stumbling over all my words.

Oh, that's fine. Well, I also— we were talking about Bittersweet by Susan Cain because we were reading the book at the same time, roughly, with this idea that sorrow is what connects people. And so applying that to this world that can be a little bit of that toxic positivity, even though Brendan, the person who certifies us all in our credential— I'm stumbling with my words— talks about honoring the struggle, right? And I think it's empty success if you're not fully experiencing yourself as a human. And I have a quick story actually that came to mind.

Oh.

Whatever, in this time. So years ago, I was a business student and I took an entrepreneurship course and they had an entrepreneur that had made $1 million come into class. And you think like, oh, this is gonna be really cool. You know, he's figured out business, figured out how to run a team, must be, you know, living his best life. And it was one of the saddest presentations I had ever seen because this person like had like plumbing parts, plumbing parts manufacturer. And he's like, here's a picture of me on my yacht on Lake Michigan. Here's a picture of my ex-wife. She took half my stuff. And then he goes into a bitter thing. And he's like, here's the 2 kids that don't talk to me anymore. We're on vacation 3 years ago or whatever. And he had just gone through a divorce. And it was the most miserable— I'm successful, like I made all that. And then he's like, oh, but I made all this money. And this is the big thing I did with my business. And it's that empty success of, you know, I accomplished things, but I wasn't a human along the way, right?

Yeah.

You could tell that he deeply wanted to share his success with somebody, right? And a bunch of college kids in this entrepreneurship class were just kind of like, I remember looking at some of my classmates like, what the heck is going on? Like, this is very educational in the way we're like, oh, you don't want to be successful in this way. And I think— Avoiding the hard stuff, avoiding The hard conversation about how your marriage is doing because you're so busy working is maybe not— we often talk about grief, but like, there's not showing up in your relationships that can be hard, and talking about that honestly, or repairing relationships that you've destroyed is a hard thing. That's a whole other side that we normally don't talk about.

Yeah.

But like that, That connection to always focusing on growth and success and the wins kind of can lead to that life. And I don't think we've articulated a path where that— that's where it leads when you're not taking the space and time to be like, oh, like, I'm going through a lot of grief right now, and maybe my focus is drifting, and I can push through. But at what cost?

Wow, Shawn, I'm so glad you— I've never heard you tell that story, and that was really poignant.

And I hadn't thought about it in years. I don't know why it showed up today, but that's why we do this.

Because it was perfect, right? And also, I mean, you know this because we're also friends, but I don't, um, I don't think I've really spoken about this publicly a whole lot, which is that, um, I've been learning a lot about myself over the last 6 or 8 months around— I always thought it was a big blind spot, but I always thought, like, oh, I focus on relationships. I'm someone who really loves well. I had this whole— and over the last 6 or 8 months, I've been seeing some blind spots for myself where, for instance, I know you know this because we've talked about this, but when I was writing my last book, It was a very fast deadline, you know, just like I was just like working on it nonstop. And I feel regretful because there were some people around me that, that got neglected in that process.

Mm-hmm.

And I'm grateful beyond belief that I'm still alive to get this lesson, to see it, because I feel like you mentioned grief, and it's not just our own grief, but other people's grief. And really being able to really, for me, like seeing like, I want to, no matter how important something is in my work life, I want to be able to set that down when someone needs me. And I just like, I think that that's one of the things that I've really seen so clearly. You know, it's easy to get into that, like, You know, where it's like blinders on.

Yeah. And, you know, I— it's interesting because I think there are times when we do need to like have that like laser-sharp focus to like get the thing done. But I've noticed too, like following authors, we have Brendan in common, you know, how you handle those moments, like phases of intensity.

Yeah.

And also remain open to what's happening in life, you know, like, can't help if someone you love gets deathly ill when you're trying to get something done. And then the question is, you know, is it— am I going to feel guilty continuing to do what I know I got to do and to make space for it? You know, that trade-off of if I go and I'm fully present with the person that's sick, like, I'm neglecting my life's work, this thing that I really care about too. And like— There's no good answer, and that's the hard stuff, you know, like, but both could be— pursuing both is the right path and pursuing both is the wrong path. It's, again, we have multitudes and so do, you know, life's a gray area on a lot of these things and we don't know how to handle it.

Beautifully said. Sorry, sorry to interrupt you there. I got so excited because that was— I'm so glad you said that because It's not black or white, right? And I love you and Walt Whitman, but we can— was it Walt Whitman?

I think so. I really, I need to memorize this poem.

I just always accredit you. But anyway, but we contain multitudes, and sometimes it's not enough. And I think, you know, it's what we're talking about right now about like, because I have had people say to me like, Well, yeah, but, you know, your work is important too. It's not, it's not that there's really that clear of a hierarchy in hindsight. But also, this reminds me of what we were talking about in the group just now, right, where we were talking about like, the hard stuff's going to happen. And a lot of times it might feel like, just like you just articulated so beautifully, like we're between a rock and a hard place, or it's like, you know, this needs me and that needs me. And so I really love that during the group today, we really all were talking about like, okay, the hard stuff's going to happen. It may not be clear, but how do we care for ourselves in that situation? That seemed like that was a central focus today.

Yeah, no, definitely. And what you need could change. We didn't talk about this part, but that need Could be moment to moment. You know, I'm dealing with some people close to me that have lost someone close to them, and they're like, we just need to like continue life as normal as we possibly can. There's tons of stuff to do. Life has to go on. And like, that's what they need right now.

Yeah.

And in a month, they might need something else. You know, they might need— I need to stop everything and really focus on and take in everything that's happened with this you know, situation. So like, um, how do you take care of yours? Like, taking care of yourself is not one— it's not just like get up at sunrise, look at the sun and stretch, and then go for— you know, there's no recipe. It's different for each person at each different moment, you know.

Good point, good point. Yeah, I love that, you know. Yeah. Yes. And because I think also the one of the things that we were talking about that, that may be a prescription, may or may not look and see, but we were talking about things like sleep and movement and nutrition. Um, you know, maybe add in some meditation there, but some of the things that can kind of pretty much always impact us if we're making one choice over another. You and I were joking on the last call You know, the wine and pizza that, you know, I may happen to love at night, you know, but then how do I— how does that make me feel the next day, especially if I'm under stress or grief? You know, something hard is going on in my life and I need to really be physically able to face it.

Yeah, I put down in my notes, like, the signs that the hard stuff is winning is that you're not sleeping, you're not moving. You're not eating, you know, not eating or not eating the right things, and you're not able to handle stress. And I think that's a really— we never really talk about how do we know when we need extra help. Like, it's one thing to be in a group, but if I'm not sleeping because of grief—

Yes.

Talk to a therapist, talk to your doctor, your health team, you know, because those are things that Once it starts to unravel, it just makes everything worse, you know.

So true. I mean, I'm hopefully, knock wood, think I'm coming out of a deep period of grief and loss. And the sleep thing was a huge issue for me. And a lot of my friends were noticing, like, how it can become a nervous system habit. And I think this is one of the things that's especially scary, right? Because it's like, It starts with maybe not sleeping one night or two nights or waking up in the middle of the night, you know, panicky or stressful or sad. But then it becomes a habit of the body.

Right.

And so keeping an eye— like, I love what you're saying. Like, how do we know? And how do we— how do we take the time to pay that kind of attention to ourselves in the midst of things? Right.

Right.

Yeah. Did you just notice something interesting on your notes?

No, I had some things ping me in a weird way. Oh, it threw me out of my presence here.

That's okay. I thought you saw something because sometimes I do that. I'll look down and I'm like, oh yeah, that's— yeah, I did just look down and I saw the word boundaries, which I think was a part of our— so our Sleep, nutrition, movement. Boundaries are another way that we can really help to— the hard stuff's gonna happen, but how do we take care of ourselves in that? And I love that people were sharing some ideas about like, you know, no, unfortunately, I can't do that one more thing, or no, unfortunately, I can't go pick that up, you know, like really setting those boundaries.

I just realized the boundaries were around the signs that things are getting out of hand. It's like, no, I won't wake up early for you to take an early morning work call.

Yes.

I will not be bugged during lunchtime. I thought that's really interesting. Oh, this is my time to exercise in the morning. And when I'm done taking care of myself, then I can get to the job at hand, the job of the day.

But yeah, love that. I mean, even— and, you know, one of the things, um, I can't remember if this was our call or the call I had before that, but I was talking about stress, um, a lot today. And even to the extent of we're taking care of a parent who's sick, for instance, um, and, you know, can we take that time in the morning to work out, to have a good breakfast, to meditate, knowing that You know, yes, we want to be there for that person, but in order to be there, I need to take care of myself first, right? That old cliché.

In small moments, I think, was the phrase we used. You know, take 5 minutes to reset yourself, to grab a quick breakfast and coffee before you gotta get into the stressful part.

Yeah, yeah. And I want to credit that was Marcy Luna, who is also one of our fellow coaches. She's certified with us. You know, and Marcy, that's what she said, like, and I love that. It was, it was the small moment. Where can I get an extra breath for myself? And I just, I loved that, like keeping it so small. But how do I have an extra breath just for me right now? That was, that was amazing.

Yeah.

I know we only have— we've got a couple minutes left. Anything else that you wanted to— that came up today or is here right now?

The only other note that I had is like, and I'm paraphrasing the group here, but one of the reasons why we do this group is because there's this illusion that other people don't suffer.

Yes.

And by talking about it and normalizing that hard stuff happens all the time and people are going through different things, like, we can beat that illusion and Go from why is this happening to me to why does this happen to us as humans?

Just tie that in. I'm so glad you remembered that. I thought that was huge. And, and when that came up in the group, it reminded me of something my spiritual teacher says, which is like, we all go through all of the same things in life, just in different order.

And yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. That's awesome.

But, but so good to remember. And maybe just like one of the last things we can say is like, Yeah, I hope people will join us in normalizing— like, not to— you know, I was just thinking about this. So when someone says, hey, how you doing? You know, in America, typically you say, fine, thanks. How are you? Right? There's just this sort of pat answer.

Mm-hmm.

And I'm not saying to, like, get out the Kleenex and start bawling in front of someone, although maybe you will, or I will. But also just to be— you know, to try to be honest. And, you know, going through a bumpy time right now, you know, just taking care of myself. And then if someone wants to hear more, they'll, they'll ask, but at least it's normalizing, you know, that I don't have this perfect life. You know, or maybe I'm human. Yeah. Maybe I do have a perfect life in the sense that the hard stuff is a part of life. So yeah. But that's a whole nother conversation.

Yeah, for next time. And if you're listening or watching here, whatever, the streams out into the internets, in the comments, if you want to get notified and join us on Growth Day, you're more than welcome to, or you'll get an email that'll let you know a half hour ahead of time before we're on wherever you're watching this now. I can go to shawnbuttner.com/THSIOK, Hard Stuff's Okay. Um, and get signed up and you can join us and comment, and we'd love to have you, uh, on our next debrief of The Hard Stuff's Okay.

Shawn, thank you so much. I, I love connecting with you both in the group and in our debrief. I feel like I learned so much every time, and thanks for showing up. We never plan what we're going to say, and I love that you just show up and you always have such pearls of wisdom to share. So thank you.

Likewise, and thank you too. This has been— it's always a good day when I get to see Sherry and we get to do our work together. So thank you.

Yay! Thanks so much. All right, goodbye to anybody watching now or later. See you next time. Now we get to watch for the stream to end.