The Hard Stuff Is Ok! Debrief

Yeah, all right.

Hello, hello, welcome to The Hard Stuff Is Okay. Uh, Shawn, so good to see you as always.

Same, Sherry. I'm so glad that we're here doing this today, right?

I know. Do you want— do you want to share a little bit in case anybody who's watching right now or later might be brand new to these conversations that we have?

Yeah, um, so Sherri and I, for about 3 years now, and this is an inside joke because we just, it's probably about 2, between 2 to 3 years. Yeah. Have been doing a group on growthday.com called The Hard Stuff's Okay, where we talk about the hard stuff, right? And this all came up because about 4 years ago now, I'm just gonna keep putting it back.

I love you. I know, thank you. I need the laughter.

Sherry and I met for coffee in the Bay Area where we live, and we're both reading this book by Susan Cain called "Bittersweet." And both being certified high-performance coaches and involved in some peer groups, we were talking about how sometimes in personal development and our coaching community, people are just so upbeat, almost to the point of toxicity, like, I think our group manages okay with it, but it can be like, okay, you're feeling bad, let's make you feel good. Let's go, like, here's what you can do. And we thought it'd be helpful to have a group that would slow down and create a space to talk about the hard stuff. And so we've been doing that for years. We have our themes that we've noticed and have come up that has been really great. And I guess right now, If you are new or listening later, in the show notes or whatever, we have a link if you want to be notified when we go live on Growth Day or when we go live here next. So we've updated our process to account for that. So wherever you want to meet, we'll meet you. And you get just the links. That's just for scheduling and shawnbuttner.com/thiok, the hard is physic.

Yeah. You might, yeah, maybe I'll post it in our comments afterwards to make it easy. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and thanks, Shawn. And I'm glad, I always love that we give that nod to Susan Cain because that book, Bittersweet, it's really a book that gives permission, right? It's a book that gives permission for what is a human thing, right? Like, I think, every human being on this planet has gone through hard stuff. And so her book really looks at— it's been a while. I should reread it, actually. But I think she looks at actually some of the reasons why, particularly in the United States, but I know it can be in other places as well, but particularly why this cultural— way of being sort of came about where we are like rushing to, rushing to help, you know, people feel better, rushing to, um, sometimes even nudge people to feel better. I've seen that myself a lot. I've been going through like a pileup of, of difficult losses and well-meaning, definitely well-meaning people who really love me, but there's, there's this kind of like Oh, hi Heidi, nice to see you. I just saw Heidi's there. Well-meaning, but also I think it's uncomfortable for people to sit with hard stuff. And so there's kind of this nudging. I hope you're feeling better. You know, I hope, you know, and of course it's sweet and it's wonderful, but sometimes that's a hard thing when we're still working through stuff. So I love that Susan Cain gives us permission to, um, just to see it as part of the spectrum of emotions we all go through.

And I think sometimes we bring this up and sometimes we don't, but the particular mixture of good feelings and bad feelings to get that bittersweet feeling is part of our connective tissue, you know, like it allows people to help allows you to, um, I don't know, kind of like quietly help people. I would, I would say when I feel better sweet with someone, it's a kind of silent acknowledgement and a silent hope for the future too, maybe. I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud.

Yeah, well, and you know, if it's okay that I'm going to quote you, I hope you don't mind, but one of the things that I wrote down when we, when we met just now on Growth Day was that you said something. Let me see what it actually Oh, you said it doesn't feel as much like suffering when I'm sharing what's going on with me. And that really struck me. And something else I'm going to quote you on because you always say it, which I love. We contain multitudes, right? So those things fit together for me because, for instance, and I was saying this just in our earlier group, I've been just feeling a lot of grief today. And, um, I, I brought that to the group. I brought that here in this live. And there's a different quality to it when I'm with somebody. It doesn't feel— and I think you even said it's not as lonely. And there's something about the loneliness when we're holding things ourselves. It feels worse, maybe.

Yeah, it's surprising how easy it is to feel like you're the only one experiencing anything. Yeah. When all of humanity has probably seen it all, right? There's very few completely novel, unique, new experiences, right? You know, there's some type of parallel. Like, you might not be the first person to use the telegraph, but You might be, you know, the first time you use a new technology, it's the same feeling. You know, when you lose someone, the relationship, a parent, you know, family member, like that's baked into our human DNA. Like we will experience that as humans. It's not the thing that we want to experience, but it does shape us, you know, and I think How it shapes us is maybe more of a coaching question, but I feel like the space to just let it sit and feel through it in a group makes it so much more meaningful. Like, you're not lonely. Like, people understand. You feel empathy for it, for what you're going through. You know, you don't— it's hard to trick yourself and like, I'm the only one that feels it. If Sherry is like, oh no, I have had a similar experience too, and it's like, oh, okay, like there's power in that energy that we share, even if it's a lower gear energy.

Yeah, you know, and I'm just thinking right now, um, I, I hadn't planned to do it, but I, I we had to euthanize our little kitty a couple weeks ago, and I posted on Facebook. I posted her photos, and it was very cathartic simply to share with people. Um, but I, I also asked people, like, would you like to share a photo of a little kitty that's no longer alive in your life that you love? And I can't even tell you, like, how different the whole experience was getting to share people's, their beloved pets that have passed away and just feeling like you said, it was like, sure, I, you know, that doesn't take away the grief, but it adds this layer of love and warmth and connection. And I'm not alone. Oh, all these other people. And I, there was something also about like, I'm so glad for the people who did post photos because I could see like Oh yeah, you know, your little Ralph had such a cute face, and I can imagine how much you, you miss that kitty. And, and there's something— well, what do they say? Isn't there something like shared grief halves the grief? Am I making that up?

I think you should coin it. I haven't heard it before, so that's fantastic. I love it.

Maybe, maybe someone will let me know if I stole that from someone. I apologize. I don't know where, where I— but there is something about that, right? Yeah.

And yeah, I think too what you're getting at is something I think we've talked about before. There's a psychiatrist I follow online who's talking about emotional resiliency, and that to be emotionally resilient, it's the ability to change your feelings, right? And so in feeling the grief of losing your kitty, but creating a beautiful experience where all these people are sharing Memories and photos and the love of it is a way to be emotionally resilient, to shift how you're feeling about your situation. Where the grief— again, we contain altitudes. Grief doesn't go away, but you're able to bring a positive emotion with the negative, like, negative emotion, and that makes you more resilient. Or sharing the funny stories of your precious Yeah, with people and reliving that as a way to be emotionally resilient. And, and like, almost like naming it as, as that too, I think is very empowering. But I love that idea of using the multitudes in order to still, I don't know, experience your humanity maybe fuller. I think it's more full with more emotions, right?

This is great, Shawn. I, I love that we do these because, I mean, people probably can tell, I mean, we don't plan out what we're going to talk about. We just show up and start like just sort of processing whatever we've just experienced, um, keeping all confidentiality about our previous group. But, but like, this is really helpful to me because again, what I'm seeing, and I speak about this a lot, which is reaching out, asking for help, connecting with other people. Because what you just showed me, Shawn, is if I'm alone, um, which I was— I just got an envelope with my little kitty's paw prints in it from— oh, euthanized. And it's— it was so hard. And it— and, and, um, when I'm by myself, it feels like loss, loss, loss, loss. But when we're talking to somebody else, suddenly there's a connection. So it's not all just something lost, it's something here in the moment. And I've, I've never really seen this so clearly that it's like when I'm telling you about that envelope, you know, with the little paw prints, the ink paw prints, it's, it's a whole different thing than being by myself with it.

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's— we're creating a new experience together, you know? That's kind of what struck me is like sharing those stories. I mean, I shared the story of my weird cat Slider that would lick my armpit when I would sleep. Yeah, how startlingly weird that is. He's a little fuzzy weirdo, but like You know, being able to like— and you smile just like you did now when I shared it. And it was a little bit of a laugh in something that was heavy as you're sharing about your kitty. And like, but we created that experience together from nothing because we were sharing, which I think I didn't realize. But like, that's kind of cool. Something extra cool about the work we do together.

So, yes. Yes. And I love this, right? Because it comes back to something that, you know, you're usually the one Shawn Buttner, who brings this up, and I know I've learned it so much from you. Like, yeah, how many different kinds of connection, how many layers of connection are happening simply by being with someone? And again, it's not like I planned out what I was going to say to you. We didn't know what we were going to talk about, but simply by being together and just like being explorers in this territory of hard stuff or grief or loss, you know, challenges. That we— and this is, I think, the beauty of coaching in general. It's why I love coaching. It's like what gets discovered in the process.

Absolutely. Yeah, you never know, and you just trust people and the process. And it's trusting the people, I think, you know. Our coaching certification is always trust the process, but there's also trust in the person you're talking with or the group that you're interacting with that they'll hold you or support you or cheer you on, or they'll help create that moment where you're like, I didn't even think about— like something in our previous group, I don't think about attachment, or I didn't know that there's a vocabulary and study around this idea that actually might be helpful.

You're freezing up a little bit on me, Shawn. Can you hear me? I did. Yeah, you're, you're frozen. But I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna reflect what you just said until you hopefully come back. Oh, there you are. I think you're back. But what you were saying, and I do, again, we try to keep full confidentiality. But, but in our group, it was really helpful that there was someone who brought up this idea of attachment patterns and anxious attachment patterns. And it was something that I hadn't ever heard about before, but really resonated with me. And also took me to a whole different kind of, um, place, which was this idea of the nervous system and how our nervous system can sometimes go into overdrive when we're going through hard stuff and how important that is to pay attention to. Absolutely.

Hopefully I'm back. Still feel choppy, but—

Oh yeah, you're back. All right. Yeah, so, um, yeah, anything else from our group that you wanted to bring in?

I'm just— I— this is something you're always saying since you've been quoting me, is I'm just so grateful. I'm so grateful we get to do this together. I'm so grateful we get to see that group, um, And all the new and returning faces, very, very cool. Oh, I guess something cool about this group too is kind of like the follow-up. I had shared some stuff in Growth Day and confidence and having somebody in the group follow up and be like, "Hey, how? How's that going?" Again, connective in a different way. It's just knowing that people are thinking about you or remember what you're going through. It's one thing to be with someone And then next time you're like, oh yeah, you're going through that again. Like, that feels weird.

But like, yeah, Shawn, that's a, that's a really great point. And I'm glad that you brought that up because it's something that I have so appreciated about my friends. And we, you know, in case there's anyone out there who this might be helpful, like, it's true. If someone does reach out and ask you for help and you have an amazing conversation, like how much it matters and how much it can mean the next day or 2 days later to send a text or a follow-up call. Hey, you know, just thinking of you. I know you're going through this, you know. And, and maybe in my mind, I think that's a really lovely way to say, I know you're going through this, because a lot of times, you know, sometimes people will add that, like, you know, I hope you're feeling better, which is great, but usually if it's something big, they may not be feeling better. In a day or two. And so to just kind of like, I'm thinking of you and I love you, you know, during this time, that can be really helpful.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Yeah, so I love that you brought that up about people following up. Um, yeah, and I am grateful. Um, I know, I know, uh, we're, we're at our time, but thank you for, for doing this, Shawn. Thank you to anybody who's watching now or who might be watching later. And please do, you know, find that person or persons in your life to reach out to and to have that kind of like, hey, I'm going through something, can you be there for me? It can be vulnerable, it can be hard to ask, and it can be such a gift to be asked. Yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah. I can't add anything more to that. So thank you so much, Sheri. Thanks, Heidi, for joining us. I'm glad you like the Bittersweet book recommendation since that's in the comments. Um, yeah, I'm always so uplifted after these conversations, so thank you. I know that's mutual.

Yes, me too. All right, we'll see you next time. Bye-bye. Bye, Shawn. Bye, everyone.

See y'all. See ya, Sheri.