The Hard Stuff is OK with Sherry Belul

There we go.

Oh, so I'm getting some strange— sorry, I'm getting some strange error messages. I don't know what that means, but it says we're live somewhere. So hi, Shawn.

Hey, Sherri.

Hello to anyone who might be watching now or later. Shawn, it's so good to see you.

Likewise.

Yeah.

We just got off a really great call for Hard Stuff's Okay, and this is our debrief where we talk about the hard stuff and it being okay. And it's in the title, you guys know. But yeah, so I think we're just, I know we are gonna try to keep this to time. We usually say 15-ish minutes and then we go along 'cause It's fun. But so let's just jump into it, I guess. OK. Let's do it. If there's anything else you want to—

yeah. Just in case there's anybody brand new— and just in case there's anybody brand new— wait, I'm sorry. I'm fixing— there's also an error message going on that it's not quite live where we're going. But give me just a sec.

OK.

In case there's anybody new, Shawn and I both happen to be reading Bittersweet by Susan Cain. A long, long, long time ago. And it, it brought up a lot for us around— what's— Shawn, can you go ahead? And I'm just trying to fix this error I'm getting on the livestream.

Sorry. Sure. Yeah, no worries. Technical issues get us all. Okay. So yeah, years ago, I think about 15 years ago, if we keep incrementing back, you know, honestly, I think it's like 2 and a half, but we keep Thinking it's longer. Sherry and I were having coffee together out in the Bay Area on a sunny day and discovered we were both reading this book called Bittersweet by Susan Cain, which is all about that bittersweet feeling of joy and sorrow that's really connective. And we were reflecting on our community as Certified High Performance Coaches, our coaching peers, and how it's a very— and I'm going to say this phrase specifically for today— action-oriented help for moving people forward, which sometimes could lead to toxic positivity where anything solvable, we're going to go do it. And it kind of skips that human part of us that is like, we need to slow down and kind of take stock of what's going on. Yeah. Because things are hard. And so that's how this Hard Stuff Is OK group started. We meet on growth day before this, and then this is our debrief to talk about the high-level ideas that we learned, because it's cool.

So— Perfectly said, Shawn, and thank you. You know, thanks for recapping that for anyone who might be new. And if you are, hello, happy to have you here. I know some people have heard some of these before, but it's always different to me. Like, even though we do these like about every other week. I feel like every time something new, and you just used that word action-oriented, which really I wanted to say that I appreciated because in our previous group, I've been talking about this like, I need to move forward, I'm going through this hard stuff, but I need to get myself going. And the truth of it is when you said like, well, sometimes, you know, we're like in that go, go, go action-oriented mode, But really, we just need to feel our feelings. And that really struck me. And I was so grateful you said that. I wanted to say it again here, because I think a lot of times, especially in this culture, the Western culture— I don't know any other culture, this one I live in— but it's like that there's— there is that jump, you know, this hard thing happened. Well, what are you going to do? You know, this hard thing happened. You know, how can I feel better? This hard thing happened. But it's like, It's like feeling those feelings, not always comfortable, but really important.

Yeah, I think it's necessary to figure out what your next steps are gonna be, you know? I think if you're constantly, like in dating, if you're constantly dating the same person that's breaking your heart in the same way and you get right into a relationship as soon as, you know, you're like, you're not doing the reflection to be like, What do I need? And how does that, how do I test for that so that I have a different relationship next, if that makes sense?

It does, yeah.

And I think with work, you get so in go, go, go mode and you're just kind of doing all this stuff, which when that's removed can be very disorienting. The structure of regular meetings and team culture and the coworkers you see is very different as a solopreneur. And it was, for me, like jumping into solopreneur, like that was my choice, really tough. And it took me a long time to realize, oh, I need more structure and kind of like that type of stuff.

Yeah.

But I think in coaching, you would say if you get stuck in the feelings, it might be a problem, but you need to process it. You need that time to do that reflection, to be like, okay, like, What's— what is next for me without just doing it because you need that, because you needed to be doing stuff? I don't know if that makes sense.

It makes perfect sense. It really does. And I— and again, I think we always talk about this, right? There's kind of this balance, right? Like, yeah, you don't want to— you know, if I'm— if I'm still in the same place 6 months from now, you might be, you know, nudging me a little bit in a different way than you are right now, right? But I also liked that the other thing that you brought up that I think is really important is the idea of identity. And that when hard things happen, you know, and it could be, you know, like losing a job, or it could be a death, it could be an illness. I mean, there's all sorts of things that could— we could say are hard things. But when you were saying identity, I thought, you know, there's a lot of different hard things that happen that impact our identity. And I don't think we've ever talked about that before.

Yeah, I don't think so. Like, I'm pulled to say that it's the multitudes thing again, like, your work identity is different from you as a person. And what I was sharing when we were talking about identity, like, right before, in the transition between this call and the group, you know, are when you experience loss, like a lost job or a lost relationship, there are still— you're still there. There's still things like a lot of those things don't change even though they feel like they change.

Yeah.

And I'm trying to say this in a way that's not calling out specific things because, you know, so that makes it sound a little bit weirder. But like, you know, when I'm When I switched jobs, I'll use that career. The idea of being a highly productive software engineer at a prestigious company.

Yeah.

I was very proud of that. The biggest part was letting that go. But I'm still the same Shawn. I still can work at the same rate. I can still do that stuff at a high level. That doesn't change. But the situ— it's this weird thing that humans do where like the label matters a lot, you know?

Yeah, and I, you know, I love that we're bringing this up because I'm experiencing it in, in several different areas, you know, with the job, with a relationship, um, even something with the loss of my two kitties, you know, like I've been talking to people about like no longer having that particular kind of nurturing identity. Like, that was a big identity because they were both elderly kitties. And there was a sense of like, I'm someone who takes care of, you know, I know a lot of parents feel this way with the empty nest, you know, you've lost— you haven't lost it, just to your point, it's not lost, but it feels lost. Like, who am I if I'm not caring for this, this person in the way that I was? Yeah. And I appreciate what you were saying, like, about the job, you know. Yeah. And it's, to me, it's helpful what you're saying about, because it doesn't feel like I'm the same person, which is really weird. Like, I don't know, why is that? You know, that's part of why it's so hard. I feel like, where did that person go?

And as your friend and someone that has been working with you, like, I can see that shift in you, but I also don't think you're any less caring from any of the previous contexts. I don't think you're any less productive, any less connected, any less a symbol of our community. Like, you know, that's still you. And like the multitudes thing, the label changed.

Mm-hmm.

There's some mechanics there that, that make your life a little bit more shaky now, and that's honest, I think.

Yeah.

You know, financially with the job and, and whatnot. So like, it's really interesting as a friend. Like, I didn't, I believe everything I just said. I don't think I've ever articulated it and it feels good, but like strange to like say that out loud. I don't know.

Well, but I'm glad. I'm super, super glad. I know this is not just a conversation for me, me and you, but in some ways The way it is, you know, I know people, and I love when people listen in, I love when people comment, I love when people tell me later, oh, I saw that and I've got my own hard thing going on and it sparked conversations. I love all that, you know, and I'm so glad that you do happen to know me as a friend and you did say that because just this morning I was talking to a girlfriend and we were talking about her status changed from wife to not being a wife.

Mm-hmm.

And what that does to how we see ourselves and how we move through the world. And of course, we're all still the same people, but in our heads or, you know, it's— I just think we're touching on something that since we've never explored it before, it's a little bit obtuse. But I think hopefully maybe anybody listening who also, you know, might have gone through some sort of identity loss or change, might have something to add even, which would be great.

Mm-hmm, absolutely. And I think I'm actually kind of thinking too, like, we're friends and have a particular relationship, but also maybe at some point exploring what those labels do mean to other people, because as we were talking in the previous group, you know, saying, what's your next move? What are you doing? Here are your options. Here's options I found for you to continue to go. That label change is inviting that type of energy in when really maybe you just need a hug or you need to go get a cup of coffee and stare at birds on a bench or, you know, like it's, it's a signal for help in a way that can almost feel unconnected. you know, without acknowledging what's going on.

You know what? Thank you for spelling that out because anybody listening, right? Like it could be that I'm more aware if I have a friend who's gone through any kind of, you know, again, we're talking about, you know, divorce, we're talking about a parent or two parents dying, we're talking about jobs, we're talking about all kinds of the children leaving, that it's like maybe the best thing we could probably do for someone that is the most helpful instead of trying to help them get to the next step might be to check in with them to see where are they and what would be most helpful, you know, not, you know, kind of assuming, because everybody wants to be helpful. And it's very, you know, well-meaning. I like what you just said, you know, and you kind of offered that to me in our previous group, like, well, maybe you just need to feel your feelings.

Mm-hmm.

I was like, thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's so many aspects, and I love this about our conversations, right? It's like we've been talking about the hard stuff for a long time, and it feels to me like it's always ever interesting. Like there's always more facets.

Always more nuance and, you know, little alleyways to explore. And I think I feel, I won't speak for you, but I imagine you feel this way, but I feel more enriched, like kind of having this in my back pocket when bad stuff shows up. It's like, oh, okay, I can be upset right now and still be happy with my wife. I can—

Yeah.

Feel really low right now and still summon the energy to like make a niece or nephew smile and be goofy. You know, like, both can be true at the same time. That's, I mean, that idea of multitudes that keeps coming up came from a discussion and has helped me in a lot of ways. So yeah, I'm so, so thankful to be exploring the space with you, Sherri.

Me too, Shawn. And I, you know, thanks, thanks for just saying what you did. I think we do need to wrap it up because we both need to go, but I will never hear that too frequently. We contain multitudes. And I hopefully anybody listening, because it's such a good reminder, you know, no matter what's going on on the surface right now, there are other parts that we can access and pull forward. And somehow that helps me, like, I can be with this part, maybe, you know, but knowing that other part is there in the wings. So, you know, more to say about all that next time, I bet.

Yeah, next time. And in case I very quietly did this, but in the comments on my YouTube, and I think it goes out to everything else, Sherry, I don't know, but if you want an email notification when we go live in Growth Day or when we're going to be doing this next half hour after that starts, you can go to my website, shawnbuttner.com/thsiok, the hard stuff's okay, just physic as we like to say. And you just get emails when we go live, like when we post, when we're gonna go live, and then a reminder before. So—

Yay! Well, thank you, Shawn. I love this every time. We'll be back in a couple weeks. And thank you, anybody listening now or later.

Yep, thanks everyone. Cheers.

See you, Shawn.