Adoptees Healing Roundtable 2

Uh, so, so once again, thank you for coming together, um, today and for your time, uh, to give, uh, to share some of the feedback, right? Because I think we're— we, we in the past, we've had trauma education and therapy, and that has been pretty much the only ways, and, and support groups, of course. Uh, trauma education, uh, trauma education, therapists, and support groups. Those have been like our 3 planks. Um, and what, what we're trying to do on Thriving Adoptees is healing education and sharing healing perspectives. And now I'm trying to— well, not trying to, I, I'm pulling together the stuff that I've learned from the conversations with you guys and all the other adoptees for the podcast, um, the, the feedback that you give me from the questionnaires and my own stuff and bring that all into, uh, in, into a, a healing framework, which starts off with like the holistic bit, then breaks into the 5 sections, uh, and then ends up with a holistic bit at summary at, at the end. Um, so today we're just looking at this first, this first section. Um, this, uh, psychological healing. So I, I set out a brief, but I really, I'm just want to lay it open to you to, to share anything, um, that you'd like to, to share. Um, and then would you like to go? Because Jude, this is the second one of these I've done today. So Jude was in.

Yeah.

First one. So I'd love to hear Uh, your thoughts. I don't know if you could, if you could start and, you know, go as big or as detailed as you like, whatever, wherever you, wherever you want to start.

Um, for me, psychological healing means that I can get my emotional needs met behind my emotions, but it also means that I get supporting sorting out, you know, what is a strong internalized inner critic and how does that voice sound and how can you get rid of it. But as a transracial adoptee, I'm also thinking about internalized racism, which becomes a really big issue for identity formation and self-respect and self-esteem and sexual self-esteem as well, if I, if I can pitch the sexual health a little more. Because all of those things is daily affecting my, you know, idea of my self-worth. So if I constantly hear a strong inner critic, you know, slashing me down and I walk around with shame about myself, about my body, about not, you know, whatever it is, then that will in all ways and in all contexts affect me in a negative way. Um, but it's also very strongly connected to the context or the, the society at that time, because the norms are also connecting with what is actually accepted to, to, you know, do or not to do or, or think about things, as well as which is the psychological treatment or treatment method that is used in that time, and so on. So for me, it's, it's linked to everything. But the short answer would be that I get my emotional needs met and not just, you know, put words on my emotions, because that's not really taking us anywhere. Then I'm stuck with the anxiety or the grief or the pain. And people, you know, therapists are like, we need to hold the space for what we're feeling. It's like, okay, yeah. But then, like, can we Can we just translate it so that we can actually do something? Because then we will be self-independent and then we can make it. But if, if we're just supposed to sit with what we are feeling, that's not giving any answers. Um, so yeah, I think that's a short and a long answer to that question.

Uh, Linda, would you like to go next, please?

Absolutely. I love everything you said, Anna, and mine's not going to be too— I'm sorry, what did you say?

I just did a high five, you know.

Oh, high five. Maybe I mispronounced your name.

No, no, it was just like a small one. Sorry.

High five.

And, um, I, I resonate with all of that, and I feel that I'm trying to get to know all my parts. And until I, and I have to be reflective to do that. And I have to give it each one time and patience and love and grace. And until I can meet all those parts and we can have this powwow to decide, where is it we want to go next? Who do we want to be? What do we want to discard? And for me, it's all that false stuff, false self stuff. And I'm identifying what's my core self versus my false self. And that when you brought up the inner critic, or if you want to talk about, um, what's it called, your superego, same thing, right? It's just a lot of people think that that's themselves talking to themselves when really it's your conditioning and it's your parental, uh, inner critic talking to you and you just. Yeah. Where they left off, you just continued. So I'm trying to put an end to that because I've just had my family pass away and I want to disconnect all the control they have over me and say, this is who I am now because I'm choosing to do that. My healing or my expansion is what I like to call it more of. I'm expanding and I have the ability to do that because I have freedom and I have choice. So for me, if I continue to do that, then I'm just healing more and more all the time. And we'll, I'll never be completely healed, but it sure is fun trying. And I know I'm on the right track. Yes.

Can I just, just add detail on what you just said? Because for me, that's so much about the body. It's not so much only about, you know, how can we disconnect that voice, or how can we, you know, whatever we want, we're doing cognitive blah blah blah. But it's also so much because I studied dance and movement therapy and somatic sexology. So for me, I do that in movement with my clients. So we can walk in the room in different settings, or we can, you know, use different energy to do different things and just see who is this now, you know, what is happening. And then when we do that, I can mirror that person back so that you feel seen and heard in your body. And we don't need to, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah about everything because majority of us doesn't have words for what we are feeling or what we're carrying around anyway. And so it's the same, like, I think we're talking or we're, we're, you know, doing the same thing, and just that we're using different words. So I just wanted to add the, the somatic perspective. On that one.

Yes, definitely.

Jude, Jude, would you like to jump in?

Sure. Um, I, you guys see me nodding because I'm like, yes, yes, yes, hitting on so many wonderful things. And I was writing down my, my thoughts. Uh, I think for me it has been working on identity and selfhood, and in that stepping into agency, making those choices and sovereignty. And the embodiment. So for me, like, I have delved into a lot of shadow work. And it had— right, like, so that's getting to know those pieces that I tend to hide, like those parts of me and befriending them. And we go through like this integration process, right? The body and the mind are not separate. The mind is throughout the body and nervous system. I learned that through my massage work, right? Like, and The, the embodiment piece, right? Like, so we're taking the unconscious, what's unconscious in us but alive and driving often, and making it conscious. And once we have that awareness and we can give it words, we can move it with the body, we can change it. And, and really we go from an awareness— and I'm getting all chilled up— to an embodiment, right? Like, we have to process, integrate, metabolize that, digest it so that it's a part of I call it truth in my bones. I own it. And now it's a part of who I am. And I'm more whole, right? That piece now is no longer relegated to some dark corner. I can, I can understand it and have love for it. And it's a piece of me. So, and in that process, right, we're facing narratives and limiting beliefs, these old narratives that we got from our parents or society. So I think there's, there's so many layers and I just, I, and so many tools available. So I think helping give people toolboxes that feel safe and resonant with them is really important. And helping them with language even that maps them a way out, you know, or a way toward expansion, as Linda said. I really like that.

I'm, I'm wondering, Now, if the— this 5-section framework is quite the right way to do it.

But name them. Can you name the 5? You just—

Yeah, psychological, emotional, uh, biological, relational, and spiritual.

I like it for this reason: it's an umbrella. Like And, and so I would offer, like, it's how you put it together. It's how you present it, right? Because we are this whole being, and all— and those are like the headings of each little area that make up— Like, though, they're— and, and like, they're— Linda and, and Anna are saying One influences and impacts the other. So we could work through movement, right? And it's going to impact something, and we can change a belief, and it's going to change something in our body. So exactly, those are my thoughts.

And this is, this is the best point. This is like, because I would make— well, I don't— for me, there is so many perspectives you could choose, but I was thinking like Judy's saying that it's an umbrella. And however, the importance is to choose which are the, you know, where does the rain fall over that umbrella so that it's understandable for who is reading or for who is, is, you know, receiving the information. But it's all connected, no matter how we do it or how we're not doing it. And, and it's always about transforming and moving information like that between the different levels of consciousness. If we call it shadow or if we call it like it does, It's, you know, different theories, different whatever, but in the dance and movement therapy, we are talking about the 3 levels of consciousness. And to get that, you know, that's that transformation or that movement going, which is a movement in the body, then we need the symbolic part, which could be drawing or which could be looking at pictures. We need the movement, so we need the embodiment part. And we also need— I almost don't even remember what the third one is right now. Well, the mind, the mind, the thinking. And, and then when you realize how it works, then you don't need to start in that direction. You know that you can start wherever or whoever is where, because it's all about the process. And this is the same with your umbrella.

Simon. Linda?

Mm-hmm. Or did you want me to chime in?

I, I, I thought you, you were nodding along and I thought you had—

Oh yeah, absolutely. It's the relationship of everything. I mean, if you break it down to the simplest of units of atoms and neutrons and everything on this earth and universe is about relationship of how one affects the other. And, um, I do agree that the umbrella is great because it gives us a way to explain it. Not that that's the way that it works in, in reality, but it is a way to learn it and to understand it. So I think that's important. But, um, just like what we're trying to tell our medical doctors, that you can't just deal with the medical model. You have to incorporate of, well, you know, what kind of food are you eating? What is your diet? Or what is your habits of sleeping? And what's your stress level? And so often they're not willing to bring in all the other factors about looking at someone holistically and what's really going on in their lives. They're just looking at the disease or how to cure the cold, or, you know what I'm saying? But I think we're all on the same page of understanding that this all— it's all connected.

Yeah.

Everything in this universe is connected. Yeah, we are, right?

Yeah. So it's like they're little— it doesn't matter which doorway or access point they go in.

Yeah, it'll all lead to the same place and understandings.

Yeah, and I'm thinking the same because sexual health or our sexual identities, it's also exactly about this. It's about relationships. It's about attraction. It's about the mirroring in other people. It's about the norms. It's about how we feel. It's about how we think. Like, it's, you know, it's also about all of these things. So for me, it's always connected, no matter what kind of challenge we are trying to address or what kind of title we want to put something on. And I don't know, I'm just confirming.

Right.

And the greatest relationship is with ourselves, like even with our body. You know, we're building a dynamic rapport of trust within ourselves. And as we have that trust, like even with my body, I, I'm working with my body. I'm working with my organs because I really don't have a relationship with my organs, not much. And I'm trying to because my gut is slow, sluggish, you know. Well, of course, right? The seat of emotions. It's held a lot of grief. And it's, it's like it's gotta trust me. I need to learn to listen to it. Right. So, so it really— relationship. Yeah. My gut feelings, my intuition is there. Right. So it's so much for us to, like, even on that, like, cellular level to be listening, to be in relationship with ourselves. And it's all connected. Yeah.

And I would just offer also that, um, if you do a writing assignment and you ask a body part that has something to tell you and you just start free-flowing as if you were your gut or if you were your nose or whatever it is, they may have something to tell you. And you may, uh, if you start free-flowing and not judging what's going on the paper, it's a scientific fact that when you have a pen in hand or a pencil and you're writing on paper versus even just typing on your laptop, It anchors, and it— there's a lot more healing that happens pen to paper. And if you let that body part talk, I bet you'd get to know it a lot faster. What do you think?

Oh, I am in love with that. I'm like, yes, because I do— I did Artist's Way, and I do like morning pages, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah. So I— and I'll offer this just because you guys are on this page. Like, if you're ever Wanting to connect with your inner child, you can ask it a question, write with your non-dominant hand, which for me is my left hand. And the— it was amazing when I did that because it looks like child's handwriting, right? Because it, it, it— yeah, I, I love that. I wrote that down. I'm going to do that practice.

Thank you.

Yeah, and I did both of them. Um, and I, I also, when I have coaching clients or therapy clients, I write them handwritten letters with the summaries, and I don't send them to them, but I scan them. So, but they actually get like a handwritten letter after every week's session, and I ask them to do the same. If they want to write something back, then they are free to write something back. And then as a next step, I ask them to write with their left hand, and I ask questions in writing to their inner child. And they— well, not, you know, it's not the second session, it's more like the 8th one.

Yeah.

have a try, you know, of this. But then we do that so we can, we can be pen pals, our inner child, which is amazing because it's so like, it's so special. And then, yes, because I, I find mine as well.

And then when I get a letter, I'm like, epiphanies, epiphanies happen all over the place.

Boom, boom.

As I say, that sounds so potent.

Yeah, and it's so fun. And so yeah, I do that as well.

Can I just dive in? Um, Linda, you said you used a word that you preferred to healing. What, what was the word that you preferred?

I think I said expansion.

Expansion. Yeah.

Yeah.

So what other words, what other words Um, do we like or prefer or kind of equate with healing? What are the, what, what are the words? Expansion?

Transformation?

Sorry?

Growth?

Transformation?

Transformation. Yeah.

Yeah. Growth, transformation. Um, I say often, I'll say I'm resolving my trauma, like that part, right? Like I resolve it little bits at a time.

Um, befriending. I like the idea of befriending. I don't think I'll ever get rid of my trauma, but I do, uh, I'm an adult and I can manage it now. And so I like to think of it as befriending it. Because if I always just say, I hate that part of me, it's back to parts work, right? You can't hate a part of yourself.

Right.

Um, it won't work. That part will just get louder. So you treat it with love and grace and you give it repair and comfort and to help resolve so that, that little part of you doesn't show up when you go to the grocery store and you get pissed off at the counter, the clerk, and you act more as your adult capital S self instead of your little 5-year-old that wants to scream or, you know, do whatever.

Yes.

So we've got growing, expanding, resolving, befriending, integrating.

Integrating.

Integrating.

Is that like a therapeutical word? Because every time I use integrating, and I love that word, people say, what do you mean? So is that like a word that, that we understand because we're working with it, or is it just like Me that has bad luck when I use it.

I do think I have seen wrinkled, like, when I say it, but it's like, because I actually do it, I know what it means.

Right.

You know?

Yeah, probably that's me.

Yeah.

Okay. Because I'm trying to describe what I do sometimes, and then I use that word, like, to integrate your different parts or to, you know, put the body to the center or these things. And everybody's like, what do you mean with integration?

Yeah. My new word is metabolizing.

Metabolizing, right?

We're digesting, metabolizing. Our body is metabolizing, right? And so taking the nutrients and getting rid of what it doesn't need. And yeah. And, and then it, the nutrients become part of you.

Mm-hmm.

What, what do you mean by, uh, what, what do you understand by integrating, Jude?

So for me, when I'm going through a spiral growth of— I'm just trying to think of something specific, but anything. It's like there, it has these phases, right? Like I often, I'm in a void phase, I come out of it and I'm all like, yay, I'm, I'm growing. This, this seed is sprouting. I'm understanding. I can see my stories and narratives. I, I'm discerning. I'm differentiating. And I'm building capacity for the new way of being, for healthier ways of being. I'm exercising it, building it, and I begin to blossom. I begin to come into confidence, and then I can discern even more clearly the difference between what needs to go, and I can start practicing that, right? Like, I'm no longer gonna show up, or changing how I show up, or how I'm being. Right? And then you're full in confidence, and then it's like you start shedding and releasing the old, and the lessons become— start coming really clear. And so as the lesson becomes clear, I'm metabolizing that, I'm integrating it so that it's no longer a truth that I know here. I know it in my body, I feel it in my body, and I'm really showing up differently. That's what I'm saying. That's the process. Is that right? And then you go inside.

Exactly how I do it. No, but it's exactly how I do it. It's just that when I use the word integrating, people don't actually understand what it is. Yeah, but for me, I'm just— we put it in the body. That's what we do. We collect all of this information and now we're going to put it in our body and I'm going to show you how. And we do. Like, but yes, that's exactly what I mean as well. Yeah.

For me, it's that, um, I don't know if anybody's heard me do this, uh, like, have you, have you all played Trivial Pursuits, the board game Trivial Pursuits? So we have that little, the, the cheese holder, right? Yeah, each person playing Trivial Pursuits has the cheese holder, so it's a circle And then you put the 6 pieces of cheese in. So, uh, no bad parts means that everybody's playing nicely. The uppercase S, Self, is the cheese holder, and the parts are the individual cheeses, and all of those are accepted. They're all playing nicely. None of them are falling out with each other. That's what integration kind of means to me.

Cheese, basically.

Cheese. But I give a visual metaphor with the— I don't know, I came up with it. Listen.

No, but it's smart. And I'm thinking of acceptance. Which I'm also thinking when I say emotions, but emotional needs. I need to feel accepted and I need to be held. And when we can learn to do that with ourselves, like we were saying, the inner child and all of this, then yes, we can be a she as well.

It's accepting each part of us is accepting the other parts of us. So all there's 6 cheeses in the Trivial Pursuit game, right? Um, one of the slight challenges I have, because I'm reading— I'm listening to, um, uh, the No Bad Parts book at the moment, Linda. So you talked about finding all the parts, right? That for me, that, that could go on forever.

Mm-hmm.

So I like the idea of just 6 parts. Because otherwise we're going to be spiraling for forever. Um, and, uh, what I'm really loving at the moment is Parts Work uppercase S Self. All right, that, that's a concept. When I'm with my somatic experiencing Experiencing woman, therapist woman, right? I, I experience what Richard Schwartz talks about as uppercase S.

Mm-hmm.

So I've got the experience that correspond— that corresponds with the language. So, and, and that would be embodying the understanding, right? I've, I, I've got something intellectually. I've heard some— I've heard something intellectually in a book, and now I've done it, and it's as clear as absolute day to me.

Yeah.

And, and that, that's why it's really important that all these 5 things fit together, because otherwise you've got the 5 things— by the 5 healing things, I mean, right? So in Psychological, emotional, relational, um, biological, and spiritual. So you're, um, those 5 things sit together. So, um, I've got, I've got a psychological thing from Richard Schwartz, uppercase S, Self, and biologically, uh, through the somatic work those two are in harmony. Yeah. And that's the danger with Richard Schwartz is I'd be looking for parts forever. It'd be too complex for me. So when Linda, when you were talking about that, I was thinking, oh no, it's too much.

I think I'd probably draw a line somewhere and not, you know, get too crazy about it.

73 or 100?

I mean, I think I can get, generally speaking, uh, identify, um, you know, I'm joking.

You know, I'm joking. You know, there's a— I'm joking a little bit.

Yes.

Yes.

Yeah. Well, I was going to say to Anna that I think what we're all saying would appeal to people that are contemplative thinkers. And so to someone that doesn't, is not reflective, then the word integration is going to not mean a lot to them. And even your umbrella, Simon, they may go, why should I care about that? You know, they don't see the relationship. I think there's a, Mm-hmm. there's a creative kind of wavelength. Uh, that if you desire to see these things, you, you will. But if you don't have the desire, I don't know that you will see them. And that's kind of what Richard Rohr talks about, first half of life thinking versus second half of life thinking. And that's not to be even said by your chronological age. It's usually a catalyst that pushes you into second half of life thinking, and you have choices of How do I want to show up here? Or do I want to let my self-limiting beliefs I've always believed all my life continue to just walk me down the road? Or are you going to say, no, I'm going to stop this right here and right now, and I'm going to choose a different path. And then when you integrate those things, to me, it means I'm updating all my systems. Whether it, you know, the 5 umbrella things, I'm updating them all to where I'm saying, this is who I want to be. And this is how I want to relate to my world. And it feels like, you know, true self instead of false self.

Yeah, that's really good language.

Can I ask— sorry, Jude, I cut over you.

It's okay. I just thought that was really good language, especially for people who are not in that, like, healing arena or contemplative, like, Linda was saying, because I think most people can understand just like upgrades or, you know, like coming from a new operational system.

Yeah. Yeah. So one of the things that I bang on about a lot, and I've still really, I've not yet cracked it, is Because I come—

I come—

I went from kind of business development into personal development into healing. That was my trajectory. And in the self-development world, we hear this stuff about self-limiting beliefs that Linda's mentioned all the time, right? And yet in, in adoptee circles I don't hear the word beliefs a lot other than this, um, feeling of not being good enough, which is actually a belief, right?

Mm-hmm.

And I heard something from Gabor Maté that helped me see that a couple of weeks ago, right? So we've got this feeling that we're not enough. Um, I think you might have just answered my own question. Um, why don't we hear this belief word?

Because we—

why don't we hear the belief? In the cognitive. Well, first thing is my perception is that we don't hear the belief word much in adoptees, uh, in adoptee circles. Am I off? Am I off with that? Um, but because that's just my perception.

No, I think for— I don't hear that either, but I hear low self-esteem a lot, and I hear like negative life rules a lot, which for me is very similar to what we are saying now, or how I'm thinking about self-limiting beliefs. Because the reaction I get by having those is the same.

Yeah, I teach on that in my group workshop, but when I'm facilitating, I don't hear anybody talking about limiting beliefs.

Hear anyone talking about what, Jude?

Limit— limiting beliefs, like self-limiting beliefs.

Yeah. Again, I think you have to go a step more to even ask yourself, well, what does that mean? Do I have a self— do I have a self-limiting belief? If I do, what is it? I think these are questions a lot of people don't ask themselves.

True. The answer I came up with myself is because we say— we don't say I don't believe I'm enough. We say, I don't feel I'm, I'm good enough. So the reason that beliefs aren't— the, the belief in not feeling— the belief— I said it— and then the belief in, in not being enough is talked about because it's a feeling.

Mm-hmm.

In adoptee circles, we talk about more about feelings And we say, I don't, I don't feel good enough. We don't say, I don't believe I'm good enough. And that's why we don't say— that's why beliefs are, um, uh, are not talked about, because it's a feeling. It's a feeling.

I think that, and, and what I observe is, and, and understandably so, A lot of where I'm at right now and how I feel is because all these things that happened out here, and it takes a while to get to a place to take responsibility. Like, I heard a really good metaphor for this. Like, if someone broke into your house and ransacked it and it's destroyed, there would be a time period where it would be understandable to, to be upset, angry, whatever, and be like, can you believe they did this to my house? Right? But at some point, you have to take responsibility to fix your house back up. Right? And what I, what I see, and it may just be where people are at, like in the groups that I'm facilitating, right? Like they may just newly be understanding. And so they're in a learning phase. But I, I see a lot of like, all this happened to me out here. And they're just not at that place of Now I'm going to clean my house.

Looking inside.

And deal with my limiting beliefs, right? Like, it's, I think I feel this way because all this out here. And like I said, understandably so. Yeah.

So they're believing their feelings and they're not taking it that step more to say, is this even true? Is this feeling true? But they believe it's true because they feel it.

Yes. Yeah. But that's it.

Challenge that, right? To, to get beyond. And if you've been telling— Simon, we've talked about this so many times. If you tell yourself a broken story and you just keep, you know, perpetuating it, it's kind of like how the adoptee narrative gets perpetuated of being the happy, beautiful unicorn story. But you have to challenge those thoughts and say, is that even a true story? It's not. And if it's not a true story, then what story is more accurate? And what steps do you have to take in order to make that happen? Whether it's rewiring your brain or being an advocate to make people more aware of the full scope of what adoption is.

Yeah.

It's hard. And I think a lot of people don't like hard, difficult things. But in the end, that it's more difficult to stay in that kind of, uh, non-movement, non-expansion than it is to actually go do it. And then you experience joy.

Yeah, right. Because that choice is just living with your suffering.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And in— because we were talking about psychological, if I just can like draw to another way to look at it or another way to describe it, it's also that when we don't have an actual perception or picture memory of something that happened, our parents or, you know, that foster home or, you know, whatever it is that we are trying to make meaning of, Then we cannot integrate it because it's really hard to do that, especially if we don't know what we need. Because if we don't know what we need, we just feel all of these strong emotions, then we rather put them outside, you know, because it's too heavy to carry them. But then, you know, it's like a prison, or like the soul gets imprisoned in the body then.

It is a prison.

But since, yeah, and then The next problem, or at least for me, when I'm thinking of, of, you know, me personally and professionally, the problem is that when we cannot get supported in using drawings or, or art or writing or movement or, or, you know, the body to make that meaning or to write that story, then we cannot rewrite it either. We just blah, blah, blah, blah, blah about our traumas all the time, and we're not fucking doing anything. About anything.

Exactly right.

Exactly right. Yeah, but it's, it's sad, you know. It's really sad because so many people are trying so hard and then they still end up in, you know, the same narrative gets repeated because they cannot change it because they keep talking on it in the same way. And the professionals are saying the same things too. But you should be happy. Like, but look at you, what's so good? Like, yeah, fuck you. But okay.

I've got an idea.

Got an idea.

So, um, the idea is to take what is a very dry multi-section document and actually make it into a workbook or an activity book. Let's call it an activity book, right? Because workbook sounds like work. So what about making it into an activity, an activity book? And then we could have, we could have all the left-hand writing, we could have all the questions to ask ourselves, um, we could have, uh, uh—

I have a lot of examples. That is not—

We're not going to turn it into the Karma Sutra. Okay.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

That's, that's not what we're doing. But maybe you're railroading it into sex stuff, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

But sexual health is also universal human rights, you know? So, and it's connected with our relationships, but it could be the yoga positions that connect us with the inner child, the movements of the small baby so that we can connect with ourselves. with us giving ourselves that, for example.

Yeah.

So we can— there's a lot of things we can do that would make sense. And it do make sense to talk about sexual health in the relationship part though, not necessarily to say, you know, this is how you do it, because no, nobody cares how you do it anyway. That's not the point. But like, how can you know that this is the right choice? How do you know if it's actually a good idea? To do this with this person? What questions can you ask yourself before you enter a situation? And how do you deal with shame and guilt and value? Like those things, because that's connecting with relationships and sex.

I always say, what's your motivation?

Sex starts in the kitchen, right?

If it's clean. Hello?

Only—

Well, I don't mean like that, but sex starts in the kitchen, meaning Because everything in the relationship shows up in the bedroom. Yes, everything.

If you're not going to have something right.

At this point, I'd like to ask, are you all okay with us, um, sharing the— sharing this video?

Yeah, I'm a sexologist. This is— I'm behaving pretty nicely now. I just wanted to say that.

You did say a curse word though.

I did, but it's only like 2 times. Wow, you should hear me when I curse. Like, for real.

We liked it though. We cheered her on.

We did. It was very appropriate, so thank you.

It was, you know. No, but it's also a point in— for me, based in my profession, I'm supposed to be the one opening up for people to be themselves. So when it comes to using curse words or talking about sexual, sexual health with jokes, I am supposed to lead that because you are supposed to feel that it's easy, that it's playful, that it's relaxed. that nobody is judging you. And I lead the way by showing that I'm also not judging me. I'm allowing myself to have fun, and I am allowing myself to talk about it without making judgment, without feeling nervous, without making it a personal, you know, whatever thing, because it's not. So there's a point with it. I'm not, I'm not, you know, totally, totally lost. There is a point with being like this as well.

Well, it makes you seem authentic and real, so approachable, right?

Yes.

And then they feel safe. So I, I totally get that.

Regardless of—

This is how I am. No, and this is how I am.

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes. And so this is how I am in general as well.

Ladies, um, we're at, we're at, uh, 12 minutes past the hour.

Oh, okay.

And I, I, I need to go in the kitchen in, in 3 minutes and eat my meal, dinner, or, you know, talk to my wife before. So would anybody— would you like to share any closing thoughts? Anna, you're on the screen at the moment, so you're gonna— you can go first.

Well, I just want to say thank you. I thought it was so nice having this conversation with people that are, you know, immediately going in the same direction. And so interesting to hear all the different perspectives, because we do talk about the same thing all the time. But now I get, you know, more understanding for other perspectives as well, and it makes me excited to see how easy we can integrate this. So I'm happy. Thank you.

I would just springboard off of what Anna just said, that And, you know, we didn't even concentrate on adoptee only, which I love, because again, you can't separate just our adopteeness. It's the intersectionality of all of our lives and everything we do. So it's really a rare find to get a group like this where you— the reciprocity was just flowing. The energy was really good. So I thank everyone for the time.

Thank you.

Yeah.

I did. Yeah. I'm like feeling a little bit high over here. Like, yeah, this was great. It was fun and light, but we were talking about really serious things and it was passionate. I just see everybody's passion to help others and to bring more wholeness to the world, right? So people can step into their authentic self and enjoy it. Enjoy the life they're living as a— right? We're here to enjoy this life we're living and to feel like it's purposeful and meaningful. And so, yeah, I feel like you guys are amazing, fun, helping people for others in those journeys.

Yeah.

So thank you.

I thought you were all having too much fun.

I think we may have outtalked you today, Simon. Isn't that crazy?

What can I say? Thank you very much. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Simon.

We'll regroup and yeah, we'll see you next time. Yeah. Thank you.

Lovely meeting you.

Thanks a lot, guys. Bye.