Enabling Thriving With Damon Cates

Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of the Thriving Adoptees Podcast. Today I'm delighted to be joined by Damon, Damon Cates from Chicago. From— he's the president and CEO of One Hope United, uh, joining us from a very— looks like a sunny day in Chicago, sunny morning there.

It is, and, um, a little warmer than it has been, so we'll take it.

Yeah.

I wouldn't call it warm and sunny, but it's definitely warmer.

Warmer, yeah. So I'm used to seeing Chicago weather on ER from back in the day, so I know it goes very extreme. And I did once have a 4-hour layover in Chicago in the summer, and it was very hot and very humid. But you get very cold in the winter, right?

We do. It's been below zero Fahrenheit here this past week. With some snow thrown in. So quite the extremes.

So, so, Damon, thriving. What does thriving mean to you? And if, can we start this kind of looking at this for you personally, right? So personally, professionally, what does thriving mean to you?

Yeah, it means, in my view, the ability to live your best life. And the life that you've dreamt for yourself and how well you're doing in that pursuit and also being fulfilled.

Yeah. So what has brought— because if I remember rightly, this is a new kind of venture for you, what you've been doing at One Hope United, right? I should be able to remember You told me last time, but you, you've been, you're relatively new still there.

Yeah, 3, a little over 3 years.

3 years. But this was a different, this was a different sort of environment for you to work in. Yeah.

It was. Yeah, I was in higher education for the majority of my career working on, you know, larger. I did a little bit of teaching, but did mostly larger administrative tasks helping Start new programs, build capacity. But also my, my passion was helping secure either funding or opportunities for those who, if they could do the work in the college setting and could be successful there academically, making sure there were no barriers for them to be able to attend and be successful. So There too, you know, when it comes to thriving, it's not only in the university setting. It is an example that I was focused on, wasn't just making sure that they could get there, but when they were there and just because they could do the work, what, what would be necessary for them to feel like they could fully participate, fully be authentic, fully be themselves and take full advantage of what was being offered?

Yeah.

And in a similar vein, coming to One Hope United, I feel the exact same way, but it's now societal. For me, it's not whether you can fit into the campus community, into the college setting, and be successful and thrive in that environment. But now it's like you've been in the foster care system, you've been potentially adopted, whatever the case might be. But how, how are you going to fit in with and thrive in society? Yeah.

So as the, the one word that came to mind that mentioned before we, uh, we hit record was enabling, and that's what it kind of seems to me that that would be the one word that kind of sums up.

That's right.

It, it, it's enabling and a bigger, and a kind of like a bigger picture view on this.

Exactly. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

And, and this— so there was a check— was there a change in your dream then from, from HE to from higher education to this social services, youth and care, fostering and adoption?

Yeah, it was a little serendipitous on my part in that I had worked, and it wasn't a magic moment, but had been in higher education for 25 years and was about to either double down at the place I was currently working was offered a position someplace else. And it just gave me a moment to think, well, do I want to— let's pause for one second and do I want to continue to do that or would I like to do something else? And I was just fortunate from a personal and professional standpoint to be able to make a change, which I'm very, very grateful for. Also not knowing that— call it divine intervention, but someone was steering me in a direction that was newer to me and has become my life's passion. I did not know that I— and it's not about fulfillment in the sense of like, oh, I'm taking a job that fulfills me. I just see that the experience that I've had and this great unmet need that I feel like I can do something about it.

Yeah.

This isn't fulfilling for me. Oh, I feel great because I'm doing these things. That's a byproduct and I'm happy to feel fulfilled. But man, to wake up every morning And they're like, I think I can do something about this and I think I can help and improve it. It's so motivating for me.

Yeah. So we're so fortunate to do something that we're so passionate about. Exactly. And it's, I mean, you said divine intervention. It's a bigger thing. It's bigger than just us. And we're, for myself, I feel like I'm lost in it. I'm lost in, in that passion.

Yeah, that's right. And, you know, it's not like, well, I need this to fuel me personally and my personal passion and professional passion. It does, which is great because it's a— that's an intersection that's so important because that's what motivates us intrinsically to get us going. But man, when you really see that, like, there is an unmet need, there are people who really need more than what the system can give us, and there is a way to do that. That's what—

Yeah.

I mean, that's where— and then what do you— I mean, to your point about thriving, then what kind of milieu, what kind of environment, you know, what kind of organization do you build to meet the moment? So that the organization thrives and thereby the people that we serve thrive.

Yeah. So what have the big learnings been for you in terms of that staff engagement and leadership coming into this space from HE, from higher education?

There's one of the, the learnings that I had in higher education is like higher education is obviously very similar to this. The, the work that we do at One Hope United, it can get, it can get diffused pretty quickly in terms of like we do a lot for a lot of different things for a lot of people. Same way with higher education. If you were to put that into air quotes and say, you know, higher ed, that, that's a lot. I mean, there's research involved, there's teaching that's involved, there's being a huge employer. I mean, there's just a lot that a university does. And you also need to understand, like, what you're focused on and really hone in on that. And I think that's one of the things that I've tried to bring is sharper focus, that there's a lot that we can do in this space at One Hope United. But What's a really good spot for us to make a really big difference and to help focus our attention there so that we can really see, start to see the impact? And I think our team then feels the challenge, can see where they can plug in, can see where they can make a difference. And that I feel like is self-perpetuating.

Yeah.

Versus we're kind of helping everybody a little bit, a lot of people a little bit. And that was when I inherited One Hope United in the leadership role. I felt like that's kind of where we are. We were sort of all over the place. And so we brought some sharper focus and attention to what we're trying to— the role that we feel that we can play well.

Yeah.

And then I feel like when that happens and we play well, then it just creates this inertia because like, wow, I want to do more of that and I want to succeed. And now I feel like I'm thriving at work and then the people that I'm serving, Yeah, thriving too. It just feeds itself, you know.

So what about you and, and your personal take? I think last time you talked about, um, getting away to, to nature, sitting, uh, having a, a, um, a cabin by a lake. I think you talked about—

Yep, you know, that's right.

What, what's, what's like work-life balance, or however you see that, or, or, or What rejuvenates you for this challenge that you're trying to solve?

Yeah, it's a twofold thing for me. One, you know, in your sort of definition of what work is, I don't, I'm looking more for harmony, like what feels right to me and what needs to be done. And I often talk about sort of meeting the moment. And if you enjoy what you do and you're passionate about it, it doesn't necessarily feel as much like Yeah. Work so that I have to stop doing this. And now I'm, I'm going to stop emailing and stop working, and then I'm just going to personally do something else. But I do very much understand, particularly in the, in the roles that we play, um, and the sector that we're in, the, the demands are such that unplugging and rejuvenating and self-care are just critical, you know. So for me personally, That just is, as you described, it's just being involved with nature, whatever that might be, just being outdoors. In the winter, I love to do downhill snow skiing. And that is just when you're on a lift and you're just up high and can't do anything else but sit there and just sort of take it all in. It's just a really good moment to reflect and recharge.

Yeah.

And plus the building anticipation and excitement for what's coming next, because you're going to get off the lift and you're going to ski down and it's just, it's fun. You know, that, that's exciting for me.

It is. Yeah.

Similarly with nature, what I most find is that I like to garden. And if you give yourself a little bit of a break on the gardening front, you really can't get it wrong. It's whatever's, whatever's beautiful. to you and what you want to do and how you want to design it instead of like, well, I want this to be picture perfect. I decided not to do that, have it highly manicured. But on the other end, just seeing things grow and spread and build and thrive too, with watering and planting and nurturing and pruning and all the things that go along with it is really rejuvenating for me too.

So, so what gets in the way of your thriving, Dane?

Um, you know, most often than not, I find it's a structural problem. It's a, it's a barrier, a self-inflicted barrier more often than not. Um, not necessarily that I've inflicted upon myself, but that I find that people have either intentionally or unintentionally. It's just, it's just a thing that's there that just has to be reckoned with. Um, and it takes in some cases just a quick solution, like, well, why don't we try it this way? And other times it just takes so much persistent fortitude and just to wrestle it to the ground and to resolve it.

Yeah.

Um, and I feel like that's one of the barriers to, to thriving. And it's often, like I said, it's, it's just so often you talk about it in the abstract and you talk about things in the third person. But oftentimes I find that those are people that you were talking about or decisions that people have made or a system that's in place that was created by human beings. They're just not working for those or for us to thrive in the way that we would like to.

Yeah, I was thinking about the the Tesla guy. I was thinking about Elon Musk camping out at the factory, living alongside the guys and girls, presumably, or maybe not, maybe all guys, you know, on the production line for one of the Teslas to get to the bottom of the problem. And I understand it's something that he's done before. It's not a one-off. He then he'll go all in on a focus, a bit like you were saying about focusing, focusing on what's the bit, what's the part of the machine that's sticking for whatever reason, and let's get this resolved. So there's a passion and determination, a certain amount of pigheadedness.

Yes.

Hopefully a little bit of flexibility to bring to it. to, to, to find new solutions to old problems. Yeah.

Well, and you, you've opened a door here on something that I was wondering if we would uncover today, but, or talk a little bit more about. But I, from a, in a lifelong learning standpoint, I'm a lifelong learner and I like to, similarly to what you described, kind of what is the root cause and what, what sparks this or what, what are we, what are we looking at or really studying here? And that's one of my goals for 2026. I've, for a long time wanted to really study. I did a little bit of work on this in my dissertation for my doctorate, but it's a technical term, academic term called cumulative causation. But what it in essence means is how does one create a virtuous cycle or prevent a vicious Circle. And I, I think it's interesting to study under the category of thriving, how one does thrive. How do you get that virtuous cycle started, you know, and then how do you keep it going so that you are thriving? So when I was thinking or reflecting on the time that we were going to spend this morning, this is exactly what I'm hoping to study. And it's not so much like what There, I think one thing to study is how people thrive, how you, how, what are the characteristics of a virtuous cycle? But I'm also really interested in the root cause to what you just described, like with Elon. It's like, what, what sparks it to go in the right direction? Or, you know, when can you start to identify that it's headed in the wrong direction. Cumulative causation most often applies to economic development and sort of regentrification or, or blight, neighborhood blight, you know, or, or it goes in the opposite direction. And so it's one thing to say like, well, this— we are in a doom loop in this spot right now. I'm interested in figuring out like, well, how What were the early indicators of that? And what was the signal that started us down that path? Or when someone makes an economic investment and says, like, we're gonna put a grocery store on this corner because that's a good thing, and that's gonna— it's gonna push. Or, you know, we're gonna paint this building, or we're going to— somebody's gonna be brave enough to move in and buy that house and renovate it, whatever the case might be. But what is that? That starts us down that path for thriving, for a neighborhood to thrive. And then what's also equally important to me is not having a stereotype of what thriving looks like. Well, this neighborhood is clearly thriving because they have a Whole Foods and they have a mall or something. That, that, that's not always indicative of what thriving is. That's thriving. That's my view of what I think a neighborhood looks like thriving versus There's just— this neighborhood is really healthy and vibrant in its own way and thriving for this community. Does it make sense?

Yeah, it's got to be the energy of the people, though, isn't it?

That's what I think. And the investment and just— yeah. So the same thing with One Hope United, like, how do we make sure that we're thriving and positive mindset and wanting to win, you know, and not, not win in a competitive standpoint against someone else and beating somebody else, but winning. And those that we serve, seeing them win, um, and then just wanting to do that again the next day and the next day and the next day, and then just creating this really, this flywheel of, of great activity, you know?

Yeah.

So I'm trying to— I don't have an exact answer to what it is or how to, to do it, but I'm very interested in studying it more and finding the root cause for that sort of thing.

Yeah. So, so maybe you've spoken to a lot of people, but do you—

not to pick your brain now, but I mean, does, does some common denominators or common things come to mind that you've encountered?

I would, I would say I would say living from wholeness.

Okay. That's great. Yep.

So somebody, I was being interviewed the other week and given that I've asked 600 people, yes, or close to it, what thriving means to them, you would have thought that I would have had an answer up my sleeve myself.

That's what I'm implying here. But yes, that's what I mean.

And I didn't, but I just, my view of my answer to that question changes every day, in the hours of the day. So I think I said at the time, being graceful in the highs and grateful for the highs and graceful in the lows.

Yeah, that's what I love.

Yeah, more like contentment, even an even keel. And then the following morning I thought, my— and we had— I had a great conversation with the lady that I was speaking to that was interviewing me. But living— I came to a better— I came to what I thought was a better answer the following morning. And I put a post on it, funnily enough, on LinkedIn today. And it's living from wholeness.

Yeah.

But living from wholeness would be about a lot of the things that you've already talked about, which would be and the passion, doing something that's bigger than ourselves, being lost in it, being creative, not having the world riding on it, you know. Like, so people talk about football, soccer managers saying, they say to the they say to their teams, just go out there and enjoy yourselves, right? So the, the idea— and you talked about enjoyment in the, in the moment, right?

Right.

So it's being fully, it's being full, it's being all in, it's being all in, uh, but playing, playing for the biggest possible gain.

Yeah.

But not having, not having one's personal safety and, and riding on it, you know. So living from, living from a wholeness, able to take, able to handle the, the tough stuff, you know.

That's right.

When the, when the obstacles come up, you talked about the, you talked about, uh, the, the barriers Like, do we go, like, be creative about, you know, do we go over them, do we go through them, do we go under them, do we go around them? What's, what's the, you know, what, what's making this a barrier, right? Is, is this an actual barrier or is this a mindset? Can you put the barrier in a real barrow?

That's right.

Or is it a mind— is it a mindset? Is it a belief shift that's required?

That's exactly right.

Yep.

Similarly, what I was thinking about too is, um, you know, as you were talking, like, I also feel like thriving is situational somewhat, because if you're going through a really rough patch, thriving looks a little bit different than, you know, thriving in that moment or in that situation. looks a little bit different possibly than if things were—

Yeah.

You're not going through that. So I did— now that we're talking about it, it just feels like, well, I'm thriving today relative to what I'm going through might look a little bit different than thriving because I was just reflecting on some rough patches that I went through, you know, 5 or 6 years ago. And wow, what I'm doing today and how would I characterize thriving is much different than what I was going through at that time. I was just putting one foot in front of another, getting through it, just trying to do the best I could in that day just to try to repeat that pattern the next day. And that was thriving in that moment.

Staying in the game.

Just one foot in front of the other. Don't fall down. Just try to continue any type of forward trajectory here if possible, or just stay neutral. Don't, don't slide backwards if you could, you know. And if you do, give yourself some grace, and then we'll just try it again the next day. That was thriving in that moment for some stuff that I was going through. That looks much different than where I am today and how I characterize thriving. So in just talking to you about it, that just—

yeah.

So when you're talking about not being able to put your finger on like, well, this is thriving, because now I realize Through our conversation, you're just helping highlight it's somewhat situational.

Situational, yeah. And, and, and yet they— and then I can go back to my— I can go back to the, the, the conversation I had last week with, uh, she's an adoptive mum called Rebecca, um, Harvin, uh, runs Haven Retreats. So Haven Retreats is what she created, that which is what— because it was what she needed. in the moment. She needed, she needed a break. She needed a break and, and a retreat from, uh, from the tumult of raising kids with, from, from hard places, you know, which we're going to get into in a, in, um, in a moment. Um, so she, but so she created these retreats for the, for the whole family to go on, right? Because if you're gonna, if the parents are just gonna go on it, then who's gonna do the childcare? Um, so But the answer that I gave her to was grace, great, grateful in the highs and graceful in the lows is about equanimity, I think, and situational what you're talking about situational thriving, which would be not less bothered about what's going on in our external environment. So I. Heard one of the podcasters that I listen to quite a lot. I heard her this, this morning and with a, an episode she released a couple of weeks ago, and she shared that she got into the usual kind of content and, uh, different, and, and it's quite, it's quite big, big thinking stuff. And, and then she let on that she's going through a divorce.

Oh wow.

And, and yet nothing within her demeanor had led me to believe that she was struggling. So she, she was being a role model for resilience in the face of something that is clearly a huge challenge, going, going through a divorce. She, she seemed, she seemed to be She, she seemed to me to be very graceful, or she had quite a lot of equanimity or resilience. The outside world was having less impact. The external weather was having less impact on her internal weather in terms of where she was in her mindset or beliefs. So that, that's the, that's the thing.

Simon, as you talk about this now, you know, digging even deeper here, in the complexity around thriving. But you've got not only thriving in, in the moment. So in that case where someone's getting a divorce, so sort of what does, what does thriving look like going through all of that? You know, like, what, what, what is, you know, just generally speaking, like, how does that, how does that look? But then also just being really careful not to, as we, we all have to do, all the time anyway, but not putting that thriving up against a standard that you think is thriving.

So it is personal.

I'm, I'm making it through my divorce, but am I better or worse than other people getting a divorce? A divorce, right? So how is my—

We're not going to have a league table, uh, resilience, the resilience in divorce league table, and we're going to start comparing ourselves to others. Well, I'm doing better than him, but Not as well as—

well, that's my point. Or, or speaking slightly inversely, from the outside looking at someone and saying, well, I don't know how well they're— oh well, this— maybe this person is doing great for themselves and thriving, but an outsider might say like, oh, they look like they're not thriving because I think that thriving looks like this, or if they were thriving, they'd be doing X, Y, and Z. You know what I mean? Just such an— such a complex—

Interesting. Yeah. And I once had a, an adoptee on the show, um, who's doing a— we're doing a whole load of work in, in this, in the space, made a film with Nancy Dario, who's kind of a big name with this book, uh, The, The Primal Wound. And this Rebecca Autumn Stanson was a filmmaker, and I asked her about thriving adoptees. She said, I'm not sure whether I'm thriving. So she was giving us— and I said, well, you're doing all this work, you, you're out there, you're You're putting it on the line. You're at the edge of development stuff here. Seems to me you're very, you've got, you've got some tailwinds behind you. Um, you've got an exciting project, but she was her own vision of, she was giving herself a hard time about her own project.

That's my point. That's exactly. But I feel similarly, 'cause you know, when we're in this work, everyone has an opinion of like, okay, we're, we're doing this. So what, what are the quote unquote outcomes? And then you're trying to say, you know, trying to manage expectations, like thriving.

Yeah.

Depending on where someone is and what, what they're looking for and what their definition of thriving, we're helping them find and fulfill that and make, and make that happen for themselves. But from an outsider's perspective, just because they're not in You know, let's say someone that we're working with ages out of the foster care system and, you know, decided that not going to college or going to college right now was the choice for them. Someone might say, well, they should be like— that would be thriving. That would be my definition of thriving because they would have found themselves at a university. And I'm like, that—

Mm-hmm.

It's something you have to It's got to be personal. Exactly, exactly.

And yet the question for me is thriving. It's putting our focus on something forward-thinking and something positive. And what we focus on gets bigger. So it's one of those.

Yeah.

I want to, I want to change track slightly, um, because in the— in before we hit record, you gave, you gave me this shocking statistic. We, you know, talking about the, the populations that you serve and, and the populations that you may serve, you gave me the shocking statistic that 50% of kids in foster care will be incarcerated on their 21st birthday.

Yeah, I mean, a little bit of qualifier. If they've had multiple placements, which is often the case by the time they're teenagers, and then if, um, and even more so if they age out of the foster care system, then there it, it goes into the stratosphere of what criminal involvement Or what this foster care to prison pipeline looks like, statistically speaking. It's just— and, you know, you can say whatever you want about thriving. And again, I know I just love talking to you about this because it's situational, but I would prefer to have no one feel like they're thriving in prison. You know, like, I'm doing the best I can.

Yeah.

To make a— to make the best out of a horrible situation because I'm incarcerated. That's— I just wouldn't classify that as thriving by any means, you know. And there's also just this societal, um, just this, this miss from society of like people who could just bring so much and contribute and And love people, you know, just, just so much that could be possible. And instead they find themselves in a place where they're just not able to contribute like others. It's just heartbreaking. Yeah. And what motivates me every day to, I wanna, I don't want the foster care to prison pipeline any longer.

No. So these hope, you set up these Hope Houses, right? Um, so do you— just before we dive into looking at what thriving means from, from within a Hope House, just can you just give the listeners an overview of what a Hope House is about?

Yeah, sure. We characterize them as, um, family homes. They're licensed as a foster home. They're normal houses in normal neighborhoods. 4 youth live in the home. There is a licensed foster parent who is a One Hope United employee who lives there but has their own home. So they come and spend 4 or 5 days living in the home. And then we have a part-time foster parent who comes and provides respite care so that there's plenty of people that are in the house. If there's any staffing changes within the home, the youth— what's unique about our model is the youth stay there. They don't get replaced someplace else. And then we wrap around them and provide the supports that they need. So we pioneered this 5 years going on 6 years ago in Florida. We're up to 10 with 2 more coming in Florida. We talked about it with the state of Illinois last year. We have 7 of them going now with plans to probably double that number in the state of Illinois. And then, as I mentioned, we have other states that we're talking to about bringing this model to them. One more piece, as I mentioned to you earlier too, this is additive. We're trying to add one more possibility to the continuum of care that we're offering in the sector. This isn't a replacement or this isn't trying to push anything else out. This is just if something else doesn't work in the system, here's another alternative for, for the very reason that we're talking about, for in the hopes that they'll thrive.

Yeah. So the key thing that stood out for me there in terms of thriving is continuity.

Oh, it's, it's 2 massive key things. One, continuity, and 2, stability. Like, in order— I really do think, because I, I was also reflecting on this a lot before our conversation today, how fundamental stability is. And part of the thing that I was mentioning 5 or 6 years ago was there's a lot of tumult in my life that I was trying. And with all of that shaky ground, all of that uncertainty, you know, just thriving was just managing the uncertainty and just, just, just trying to get through, like, what's around the corner tomorrow. But when things were stable and clearer and there was a further runway and a further path, then you felt like you could— okay, now I've got some traction, I've got some footing, I can, I can think about this, I can plan for it. I, you know, But if you're being bounced around in a foster care system, as an example, and you're being placed in multiple spots, you know, the thriving is just, just surviving, literally, you know, just like, where am I going to be tomorrow? What can I do? No long-term planning, no goals, no, um, and the goals are just so much shorter term, like just try not to Try to have to try to be in the same place twice in a row is much different than thinking about self-fulfillment longer term.

People talk a lot in, in the foster care system. They talk a lot about the, the, the higher the, the higher the number of placements.

Yeah.

The more every, every new placement is, is trauma because it's uprooting and having to adjust to a new And, and it's—

I don't— I wish I could statistically figure this out too, but it's exponential. It's not 1+ 1, it's 1 times 1 times 100 times— I mean, it just— the trauma just escalates, you know? It just compounds in a way that can, can be debilitating.

Yeah.

So interesting.

question and thinking about, and thinking about it from a leadership perspective in what you're doing, because the licensed foster parent that lives full-time— not full-time, sorry— that lives in the house for 5 days is a One Hope United employee. So if we want those kids, teens, the people there, do you have a What do you call them, the kids?

Youth.

Youth, right? So if we want the youth to thrive, then clearly this licensed foster parent, they need to be thriving too. So what does thriving mean for them, and what are you putting in place for them? What's the support? What's the wraparound support? To them for secondary trauma and stuff like that?

It's an excellent question. Um, we, we sort of view it in 3 ways. One, it's a team approach so that they don't feel like they're, they're there alone. But we have, like I mentioned, a part-time foster parent. We have a full-time therapist that's a, that comes to the home at least 40 hours a week.

At least how many?

40 hours a week.

Wow.

Yeah.

Wow.

And we also have a licensed or a youth care worker, what we call them, but just someone that's around all the time. We do fun activities together. You know, we socialize, we, we talk, you know.

It is very much a team approach then, right? Yeah.

Okay.

The wraparound is huge.

And then, so that's first, a heavy staffing model. Second, lots and lots of just You know, I know it's basic, but just this is, this is a team that's communicating a lot about what's happening in the home, outside the home, what, what's going on today. Just like lots of support for each other so that one person doesn't feel like this is all their responsibility, you know. And then, um, the third thing is we, we are grounded in 100% TBRI, Trust-Based Relationship Intervention. Like that, that is our model and that works so well. But it's a shared mindset too. Like if you, if you talk about it but don't know how to live it, if you talk about it and don't know how to implement it or, you know, manifest it, then, you know, the rubber meets the road, so to speak, very quickly. And so with that, when you join that kind of a team and have that kind of a mindset, then you also feel really supported too with a group of people. You know, it's just like the collective. And then as we open up more Hope Houses, I would also say that there's just a lot of learnings, constant learnings that happen. And so they feel like they're not only part of the team at that home, but they're a part of a larger group that's constantly sharing. This is what we're doing today. This is what's worked for us. This is a situation I've been in that might be applicable to you. So I feel like the staff have a lot of support.

Yeah. And what have the— how's the model developing on its learnings? You know, because there's going to be some You said 5 to 6 years ago, you're putting in place now this evaluation, like a full— you've hired—

Yes, that's right. Yeah, we're gonna start to really dig in and understand, yeah, the model. Yeah, I would say that the learnings are a couple different things. One, it is a continuous improvement cycle. So we are very deliberate about the feedback loop of like what is working, what's not, how do we continue to implement that. 2, I would say that we've got a little bit of a secret sauce that we've developed and we're trying to— there's a lot easier, or a lot easier said than done, but we're trying to put, in essence, a manual, a playbook together so that we can replicate it so that people sort of understand what that— what works and what doesn't. There's some, there's some easy lessons of like, just don't do this and do that, you know, like, I know it's a practical thing, but like for youth, Fantastic. 5 youth, not so great. You know, 3 youth, okay. But the sweet spot is 4, you know, both in the housing situation, because we can find a 5-bedroom home. 6-bedroom homes are a lot more difficult to find.

Mm-hmm.

You know, just, just practical things like that. But then also just the dynamics of how things work in the home and making sure that we've got all the support that's necessary. You know, 5 kids just is one more person that we're not able to provide the same level of high attention to and wrap around when it's 4. It just— so we just worked on those sorts of things over, over time. Yeah, that— and then, you know, we also learned what, what it's like for a youth to come to the home for the first time. And what the first 2 months— it's not an exact science, but it's usually 6 to 8 weeks where they're learning about the home, testing, pushing boundaries, really trying to understand if they can trust us and trust the system. Just the— not the system, but the model and what we're trying to do and all that sort of stuff. And we've learned what that looks like and how to make that an easier transition. what we talk about ahead of time, you know, the sorts of things we've just learned over time. Yeah.

And what sort of age of youth that are coming into that?

13 to 17 is the, is the target. So teenagers before, you know, and even if they're closer to— we've had youth that have been 17 and a half that are, that have joined us who you know, are going to age out. In Florida, you age out of the foster care system at 18. And so we've had them for 6 months, but even during that period, to provide some stabilization, possibly connect them to some employment opportunities if that's what they're looking for, and then also connect them directly to adult services that they're going to need when they're 18, and to help them with that before they turn 18. provides the stabilization so that they can, like, they just know where to go and what to do. And talk about thriving, it's like, okay, now I can, I have some tools and connections to help me thrive.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So what's, uh, what's impressed you most about these youth?

Well, you mentioned it earlier, and I know sometimes it becomes a little bit, I don't want to say clichéd, but sometimes overused, but The resiliency is just— it's, it, I— it's so motivational for me just to see what youth have gone through, to hear what's happened to them through no fault of their own. Yet tomorrow's going to be an even brighter day than today, and I'm going to get through this, and I'm going to make it work. Um, That resiliency is just—it's so motivating for me, you know.

And what do they say about the whole them staying put and not being shunted, shunted around to put a?

Well, that's—that's it. I mean, we talk about the stabilization and see the effects of it. They understand it too. They realize. And so what we also try to model for them is like, look, if—if you're in a sit. If you're in a housing situation that's not ideal for you, then of course you need to change that. But doing what you can to bring stability to your own life will also help you thrive. So if, if we can reduce the dysfunction, if we can reduce the number of times you're moving and your housing is more stable, you know, if we can connect you to employment that's predictable.

Mm-hmm.

You know, and even if you change jobs every— after a while, but like, you know, stick with this one for a year or so and then get your footing, and then we can move on to the next one or something like that. Just helping them understand that, that because they've had a whole life and a whole pattern of that being the case, we're always disrupting. And as soon as things get a little uncomfortable or something, we'll disrupt it because that's the pattern that we've been in. And they start to see even in a very small way, what stabilization can do to help them with that.

Yeah.

And then creating that for themselves, just like anyone in life, making sure that you're creating a stable environment for you to thrive personally is always— we're always working on that, you know. But they've just not had that model before for themselves. So to be able to see it and to see what, what a little bit of it can do is infectious. And like, they want to create that They might not have the skill set yet to be able to create that for themselves, and they might have a very chaotic family environment or other things that are putting a lot of pressure on them to not have the stability, but try to teach them the coping skills and the change management skills for themselves and then in their relationships with their families and others.

So is the, is the plan Then that they come in at 13 and stay in that Hope House and then go to Adventist? Or is that the plan?

The plan is unique to every single youth that comes in. So if we just need some stabilization because we can't, we just can't, for whatever reason, can't be at home right now with our biological family, great. then stay here. But we have reunification plans put in place for all of our youth. In some instances, the biological family might come over. Recently, I was on a text exchange where the entire biological family came over and spent the afternoon to celebrate a birthday. They all had a wonderful time. They just can't live together right now. It's just not the right environment. But they still are interacting. They're there. We have some youth that go home for the entire weekend, but just It's just not working right now for everybody to be together, and then everything in between. But our goal is like to provide that stabilization for as long as it's necessary for them to feel like they can do whatever might be next for them. Yeah. And what's most appropriate for them. But again, it's not a model of like, you know, in— you come in and then at this point, this is what happens. Sorry. It's very—

certain things, uh, certain things are looking like they're standardizing, like for the— that, that it's— there's, there's 4 youth in the house, right? There's this, this, this, this, and this is standard. But other— but the— there's a lot of tailoring.

That's right, perfect.

To each, each individual youth.

Exactly. And so, yeah, that's exactly right. And quite honestly, just like You would expect in any home. Also a lot of tailoring to what happens in the moment because we thought we were headed in one direction and things happen and we respond differently and have to put something else in place because life has happened.

Yeah. Cool. So we're coming up on time, Damon. Is there anything that you'd like to share that I've not asked you about?

Well, first off, I'd like to thank you for having me on.

Wow.

And I, as usual, I thought about one, a couple of things that I was hoping we would discuss, which we did. And then the wheels are spinning with other things that you've sparked and got me concentrated on. So I want to also thank you for that too. It's a really fun conversation. And I guess I would leave, I mean, I know we talked about it, I guess I would just leave with this, you know, this intersectionality between The situational aspect of thriving, like what thriving means in the moment. You know, what, what today's thriving looks like may or may not be what tomorrow's looks like. And then also just being really— maybe it's my own personal thing, but just being really careful about wanting that thriving to be what's, what feels good to me, not juxtaposed to what I think I should be feeling or what others would characterize thriving to be.

Yeah. Um, the conversation I, I was talking to, uh, an adoptee who's coming on the show in a couple of months before our conversation, and he was talking about like comparing trauma is, is trauma.

Yeah, exactly. So that's absolutely right. Let's skip— well, I went through this, well, I went through that, you know, and if that's healing or helpful to get it out, it's one thing, but it's I don't know. Yeah, couldn't agree more with you.

Well, but it's part of society and kind of— that's right, we used to call it keeping up with the Joneses in Britain.

Yeah, exactly. Social media and other stuff.

Social media has just exacerbated this comparison.

Exactly, that's right.

Yeah, so as always, listeners, check out the show notes, find out what Damon and his team are all about, find out more about Hope Houses. And clearly, if you're in this professionally and wanted to reach out to Damon, you can find the details on the show notes as well. So thank you, Damon. Thanks for—

My pleasure.

Coming on the show.

That's great.

Thanks, listeners. We'll speak to you again very soon. Take care. Bye-bye.