Filled With Joy With Valerie Marble

Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of the Thriving Adoptees Podcast. Today I'm delighted to be joined by Valerie, Valerie Marble. Looking forward to our conversation today. We had a great chat last time and seems a while ago, right? Seems a bit of a while.

Yeah, it kind of is, and I'm excited to chat today too.

Yeah, so listeners, Valerie and her husband Bryce have got 3 kids through adoption and she's also an adoption coach. So, um, thriving then, Valerie. What does, what does thriving mean to you when, when you hear that word?

Yes, so thriving is what makes you happy, what fills your cup every day, what gets you out of bed in the morning. Um, and, you know, for obviously many different people, that can mean many different things. To me personally, um, it means that You know, I get to be home with my children, do activities with them every day, kind of watch them grow, but then also get to fill my cup with my career side of things, which is in adoption and working with adoptive families. And it is just a true blessing to wake up every single day, get to talk to adoptive families, try and get them home with their babies and support them through that whole process. And so that's what I consider to be thriving.

Yeah. Wow. Wow. And, but you've adopted 3, 3 times, but not just babies, right?

Correct. Yeah. Our oldest son, we adopted through foster care, and, uh, he was about 16 months old when he came to us. And so the other 2, they were newborn. Um, our middle, he was about, oh, probably 6 hours old when we met him. And then our youngest, our daughter, I was actually there for her birth, so got to see her when she was just minutes old. So, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So they clearly fill you with joy, right?

Yes, definitely. They, um, you know, with adoption, they come from very different backgrounds, all 3 of them. And, um, their personalities— I feel like, you know, with any person in the world, their personalities are also different. And, uh, so it's fun to see what we're gonna get every day.

So yeah. And are you, um, I, I just had an idea that you might be homeschooling, but I might be wrong on that.

No, no, no, I do not homeschool. That is not something that I've added to my list.

Your plate is full. Yeah.

Yes, it is. Yep. Uh, it's summer here right now, and so the kids get about 3 months off from school. And so our oldest, he's getting ready to go into 3rd grade, and he's getting ready to turn 9 actually this Saturday. Um, And then our second, he's in preschool and he's going to be 5 in November. So they both go to school full-time and yeah, they thrive there. They have fun.

Yeah. So what— because I'm staggered, right? You know, you've got the 3 kids, your hands are full with the kids, and you've got this professional road to as an adoption coach. How do you keep all the plates spinning? What is it?

Yeah, good question. Everyone asks me that all the time. So definitely with the help of my husband, he has my back on a lot of things. He's kind of the man behind the scenes that makes sure everybody's taken care of if I have to travel or, you know, things like that. But definitely a good balance, a good routine, solid routine. You know, and being an adoption coach, it's obviously pretty flexible. There is a lot of times when I'm very, very busy and a lot of different families need me and a lot of constant communication. And then there are other times where there's kind of a lull and a lot of quietness is happening. And so I feel like during those quiet times is when I can really be 100% present with my family, do those extra things that I've been wanting to do with them. And so I I feel like it's a good balance between the two.

Yeah. Okay. So when I say thriving adoptees, how does that, how does that change the, the, uh, your definition of thriving? What, what extra things come to mind? Yes.

Yeah. Um, I'm glad that we're talking about this today when we, you know, kind of touch base. A month or two ago, whenever that was, um, I was happy that this was going to be our conversation today because I don't think a lot of adoptive parents or adoption professionals in general, um, they really think about like what it does take to have a thriving adoptee. And no, I'm absolutely no expert on it, um, but you know, in my opinion, I think that them being safe and secure and just having those feelings of good attachment, safeness. You know, when they bring up a question about their biological family, they're not met with shame or, oh, let's not talk about that right now, or, you know, I don't know the answer, so I'm just, I'm just going to ignore the question. I think approaching that with openness and honesty and transparency for, you know, whatever age it is that the child is that's asking. I think that really helps adoptees feel more comfortable and feel that they can always come to their adoptive parents with any questions. It all starts with how the adoptive parent handles the question, handles the situation. Not too long ago, I had an experience myself with my 4-and-a-half-year-old. He is— I think it's really kind of starting to click for him, you know, in his little brain of Okay, you know, yes, there's adoption, and no, he obviously doesn't fully grasp what it is, but he's starting to get an idea. And, you know, my husband and I will randomly just have conversations around their birth moms or birth families and show pictures and just, you know, have those random conversations in hopes that someday our kiddos would reciprocate it and, you know, just feel comfortable to ask these random questions. So, oh, it was a few months ago. Oh, that's so cool. A few weeks ago, my son, he came up to me and asked, whose belly did I grow in? And I was like, oh, you know, it really caught me off guard because this is really like the first back and forth conversation we've had about it. And, you know, so I told him his mom's name and all of that. And he's like, okay. He's like, can I see a picture of her? And I said, yes, of course. So I pulled up a picture, showed him, and I didn't even think of it at the time, but she was wearing a blue shirt and his favorite color is blue. And so he got all excited. And he's like, oh my goodness, she's, she's wearing a blue shirt and she has blue eyes. And I said, yes, yeah, I bet her favorite color is blue as well, you know. And I said, yes, and she has eyes just like yours. And he was like, oh, you know, kind of just excited putting that together. And, you know, then he just went on with life, went on to play. And I was just so happy in that moment that he felt comfortable coming to me asking that question. We had A little bit of a conversation, and then, you know, he went on with his day like a 4-year-old would. Um, and then just last evening, uh, we were all sitting out on our patio chatting, and he randomly came up and asked to see another picture of his birth mom. And, uh, so, you know, brought it up to him, showed him, and he just looked at it and he said, oh, okay, and, you know, went on. And, um, so all that to say, I think it's just— being welcoming to those questions. And, you know, when they bring up those questions, having a conversation about it and, you know, keep it as simple as, hey, you guys have the same color eyes, or you, you know, you have the same favorite color, things like that. I think that really starts to build the foundation for better conversations.

Yeah. And just taking you back a step, I think you said that you, you were mentioning You, you and your husband were, were, um, sowing some seeds around this area, right? So you were— you weren't to— but despite that, you were on the, on the back foot when the, the question kind of came back.

Yes.

But if you had— presumably, um, a lot of people would taking more of a, uh, backseat approach to this, thinking that they're gonna wait for the kiddos to ask questions, I'm guessing.

Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah. And, you know, working with adoptive families, I feel like that, you know, that's not— yes, it's something that they think about as they start to pursue adoption, but a lot of families go into it scared. And, you know, they're like, okay, well, we're bringing home a newborn, so this isn't even something we need to think about right now, and we're just gonna put it off. And then when you know, the kiddo gets to be a little bit older, maybe toddler, adolescent, school age, whatever, um, that's when those questions really start to come up and it gets hard because they didn't start to build that foundation. And, you know, it's even as simple as having photos of their adoption day on your living room wall, or, um, like each of our kids have, uh, little teddy bears that have their adoption day on it and have their full names, and, um, they have those Bears in their room, and they'll talk about it like as their adoption day bear. And so, you know, I think just planting those little seeds and not being scared to do so is where it all begins. Because, you know, when your kids are little, those conversations are so harmless. And, you know, they're, they're not taking it any farther than that moment right there. You don't have to have— Every single answer and, you know, the whole, the whole story figured out and what it's all gonna look like, because that's not what they're asking for. They're just asking for that little bit right there. That's all you have to give.

So, yeah. Yeah. Sounds like you're learning some incredible stuff that, you know, what the, the, the flow of information and the learnings and, and seeing the differences between Your approach and your clients' approach.

Yes. Yeah. And, you know, I feel like nowadays there aren't too many families out there that come into adoption thinking it's going to be like a big secret or, you know, like their end goal is to, well, I want a child that looks just like me so I don't ever have to have the conversation of adoption. And I think in the, oh, 5 years that I've been doing this now, you know, no family— well, I shouldn't say no. I can think of maybe 1 or 2 that have come into adoption and have had that mindset of, you know, we're not going to tell our children that they're adopted. And that just doesn't sit right with me. If they open up and are welcoming to education and can see that, okay, this, this isn't how it should be, we should not be hiding this, um, then that's great. And we'll continue to coach them and help them through that because a lot of it, I think, is surrounded by fear. And that's, you know, why they have that opinion. But the families that do keep that mindset, um, I just feel adoption isn't For them because, you know, you need to be open and transparent with that. And that all comes back to that thriving adoptee. Like, if you are keeping all these secrets, um, your child isn't gonna be able to thrive in any of that.

So, one of the— I think we often talk about the difference between, you know, adoption in, in my day, 'cause it was 1967 that I was adopted, and adoption today. Uh, one of the, the, the, um, most profound little stories that I've heard during the course of doing the podcast is a mum of a, a, an adoptive mum of a friend of mine, adoptive friend of mine called Jude, who's similar ages to me. I think she may be 53, well, 53, 55. I'm 59 now. Um, but she said Her mum told her, she said, I told you that you were adopted the first time I took you into my arms, because if I knew that I didn't tell you then, I'd never tell you.

Yep.

And that speaks to the fear that you mentioned, I think. Um, but she, she saw that fear and kind of got out ahead of that.

Yes.

Yeah. Out of the head of that fear. Yeah.

That's amazing. And, you know, that's as simple as that, you know, putting it when they are a little newborn who, you know, really isn't understanding anything at that point. Like, yes, that is probably the easiest time to start having those conversations. And, you know, I did that with our oldest to kind of just get comfortable because it is kind of, you know, just an awkward thing to talk about. And so, yeah, I think that's great advice to start when they're a newborn and really just have those conversations with yourself. You know, they're listening, but, um, it's all about you at that point and just getting yourself comfortable with it. So then as they do grow, um, you know, those little comments and questions and all the things, it just becomes natural and just part of your vocabulary.

Yeah, I want to just take you back a step, if I may, Barry, because I was looking at your website again because it was a while since we spoke, and, um, it says on that, that you, that you, um, you experienced the heartbreak of a failed adoption before being blessed with your youngest. Can you, can you tell us a little bit about, uh, a little bit about that and, um, perhaps what, what the learnings that you draw on From that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was definitely a big learning experience. Um, and, you know, I am now grateful for it because, um, it got us our daughter. We— she wouldn't be ours if we didn't go through that experience. And then also it gave me a lot of good experience to relate to clients who, um, also walked that journey of disruption. Um, so yeah, uh, before Our youngest daughter was born, um, we were matched with an expectant mom and started to build a relationship. Things were going well. Um, I think— I don't remember now. I think it was maybe a 3, 4-month match or so before the due date. And, uh, she wanted us out there for, um, the birth of the baby and all of that. And so, you know, things leading up to it was great. Um, we flew out to Arizona, was where she was located. And then Everything kind of went radio silent at that point. A few days passed, and then ultimately we found out from the social worker that she was working with that she ultimately chose to place with a family member, a grandparent of that child. And yes, in the moment, of course, we were heartbroken about it. We had all these hopes and dreams and all ready to go. Our kids were excited about it, all the things. Of course, we're going to be heartbroken about it. But also, we had gratitude and were just thankful that that mom did feel enough support that she could choose to place the child with a grandparent and keep them in the family. I always want people to know that I never not support an expectant mom choosing to parent or placing with a family member because Yes, that means that a family gets to stay together. And at the end of the day, that, that's huge. That means a lot. There's no trauma that comes with that. So I fully support that. But I also like to bring up the heartbreak side of it and like the view of the adoptive parent, because I don't think that gets talked about a lot. And there is kind of a lot of shame around it, I guess, as far as being an adoptive parent and experiencing that goes. Because, yes, you should be grateful that a family was able to stay together, but their feelings are still valid too. So with that, after we experienced that, we went back home. And then long story short, about 2 months later, we got a call from the attorney we'd been working with that they were working with an expectant mom who—

Oh, wow.

The family that she was hoping for sounded exactly like ours. So they reached out and said, hey, you know, can we show your profile to this mom? Yes, of course. No questions asked. She ultimately chose us and that is now our daughter. And I would not have it any other way. We have an amazing relationship with her birth mom. And we actually, a few months ago, just went out and visited her and met a lot of the family. So that was an amazing experience. But, you know, with all that to say, a lot of disruptions do happen each year. And, you know, how I describe that is ultimately the adoptive family does not get to bring home the baby or child that they were matched with. So, you know, behind that, there's a lot of emotion, financial loss, a All the things. And so, uh, being in the position that I am, we were able to open a nonprofit that helps support, um, adoptive families who have experienced that loss. Um, it's called Beyond the Match, and we are there to financially and emotionally support adoptive families walking through disruptions. Um, because I found that, you know, Families get scared once again to continue on with the process. They are just very fearful. They're heartbroken. And a lot of families end up ending their adoption journey because of a disruption. And so it's our mission to make families feel supported and also realize like every adoption story is different. No expectant mom is the same. You cannot— it's not fair to anyone to, you know, Put all these moms in the same boat and relate them to the one that you had your disruption with because everyone's different. And, you know, we've only been open on the foundation side for probably about 4 or 5 months now, and it's, it's been amazing so far. I feel like we've already made a little bit of an impact and are able to help families and support them through that part of their journey, and it's been really great.

So, um, what did you learn about yourself going through that? Wow.

Um, definitely I have no control in any of this, uh, really in anything in life. And also I learned that, you know, I have to let myself feel all the feelings, uh, and those feelings are valid. Um, You know, I kind of have a bad habit of just pushing things away or, you know, like, oh, I'm just not going to deal with that. We'll just move on with life, not think about it. And that's really hard to do with a disruption because, like I said, then you're relating it to other moms and you just can't let go of those hard feelings surrounding the experience. So I sat with a lot of tough feelings and kind of walked through all of that and, you know, ultimately felt life isn't fair side of all of it and got through that and really realized that everything is out of our control. And a lot of things that we were trying to control in our adoption journey, just like any adoptive parent does on what type of cases you submit to and different things you consider, you might as well just throw your hands up and whatever's meant to be will be. Uh, and it usually ends up working out exactly as it should. So, you know, I definitely learned that I don't have any control in the process, I guess. Yeah.

And how do you— you've mentioned, um, shame as well. How, how do you see that? What have you learned about shame?

Yeah, yeah, yep. So, you know, as an adoptive parent and going through the adoption journey, You just automatically feel like a lot— you're carrying a lot. You know, you are wanting to bring home this child to, you know, either become parents for the first time, make your spouse a parent, or you already have children at home, you know, make them siblings. All your family members, community members, everybody that's kind of rallying around you, excited for you to bring home this new member of your family. It's hard when you go back home and have to tell them, you know, hey, it didn't work out. We, we're not bringing home this baby that we were all planning on. And I feel like there's a lot of shame that comes with that. I've felt it myself. I know other adoptive parents who have felt it as well. And I think it's really important that people realize that you're not responsible for everyone else's emotions. No matter if it's surrounding an adoption journey or just life in general, you can't be responsible and you cannot carry everyone else's opinions, thoughts, emotions. So realizing that and kind of like letting go of, I guess, that pressure that I was putting on myself, you know, no one else was really projecting that on me. Really just letting go of that helped me kind of let go of a lot of that shame that I was carrying with that.

So is it in a way is it the fact realizing realizing that you didn't have any control kind of mitigated mitigated against the shame because it wasn't your fault?

Yep. Yep, definitely. And, you know, um, yeah, you, you can't control anything in any of this, and you definitely can't control a mom's thoughts or opinions to parent or choose a family member to parent. Um, so yeah, realizing that and letting go of that makes a huge difference.

Yeah. So I just want to take a step back and look at the, the interplay between your thriving and your kids thriving? How, how do you see, see that? You know, you started off the conversation talking about your own thriving in terms of, uh, happiness and joy and, um, a sense of meaning, uh, and filling your own cup. How do you see the relationship between your, your personal thriving and your kids? Thriving.

Yeah, uh, it's definitely directly related, uh, and I feel like every parent probably feels this, you know, when as a parent when you are not on your A-game, you know, you're not getting all the things done, um, choosing to do the activities and things that fill up your own cup, um, that's going to in turn lead to your kids also not thriving because You know, you're the adult in the house, you're the role model, you're the one setting expectations and the mood of your whole household. So I think it's definitely directly related. And, you know, being able to do a job like I have and being able to do it from home when before I worked out of the home, I worked in healthcare. And so I was away a lot. I had a lot of call hours that I did where I had to go into work and weekends and holidays, all of that. So definitely being able to completely flip the script on that and being able to be more present and choose when I work and all that, it makes a huge difference. And when you're out of sorts, I feel like your kids are also out of sorts too. Just being able to provide that steady schedule routine, it makes a huge difference, especially for kiddos that, you know, are either on the spectrum or have attachment disorders or any of that. Our oldest, he is autistic, and so he really, really thrives on that routine and that schedule. And so I think that really helps him thrive too when I'm able to provide that for him.

Yeah. So, so, um, what, what have you learned from your, uh, what have you learned from your coaching that's helped your own parenting? Because I would imagine you, you thought about sharing your experience, but it's got to be a 2-way, uh, street, right?

Yes, definitely. It's always great coaching those families that are brand new to adoption and, you know, trying to grow their family for the first time. And, you know, a lot of families do come to adoption from infertility. Um, that was my husband and I's story, and there's a lot of families like that out there. And so, you know, when you're bringing home that child for the first time, there's so much excitement with it and just like Oh my goodness, this is it. This is what we've been waiting for. Live in this moment. It's nice to have that constant reminder from my families, you know, because yes, I do get busy with all the hustle and bustle of every day. And it's nice to be able to step back and be like, oh yeah, like we were this family at one point. You know, we were so excited about growing our family, so excited to bring that first baby home. Now I need to remember that and be present in the moments that I have. So I think that's a great reminder. I love coaching those first-time families because I think it kind of pulls me back into reality as well. And I think society in general, we all just get so busy and, you know, have these to-do lists and have all these accomplishments that we want to reach. And, you know, we Mark one goal off and just move on to the next without really living in that moment. Um, and so yeah, having that reminder to kind of step back and look around and be present and, you know, realize like, yeah, man, I, I was there at one point and look where I'm at now. Look at all I should be grateful for. And so it's fun to have that reminder. Yeah.

What about, what about our, our own stuff? What, you know, you talked about our own filling, you being on your A-game to help your kids be on your A-game and presumably to help your clients be on their A-game too. So what helps? What, the routine?

Mm-hmm.

The routine clearly has been a big thing. The being able to spend time with your kids, so to work from home has been huge for you. What about the kind of more Um, emotional, the kind of less rational kind of stuff. What, what's, what helps you be on your A-game?

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, I am definitely a big journaling person and, you know, finding gratitude in every experience. And so, um, being able to set aside that time every day to sit down and do a little bit of journaling and kind of ground myself that way and bring myself back to the present moment instead of, you know, feet hitting the ground and, okay, what's on the to-do list today? What are all these things we have to accomplish? I think it definitely helps with the mental status, the mental game and all of this. And I hear that from multiple people. I have a lot of friends who, you know, going through motherhood, Journaling has been a really, really big thing to them. And, you know, it's a space for you to write down all those feelings that you may be carrying that, you know, you don't want to say out loud, or it's a rough day. And so you just need to get it out somewhere. So you write it all in a journal, or, you know, you— it brings you back to what you're grateful for in that moment. And so I think just having that quiet moment in each day and Being able to get all those feelings out of there and, um, get it down on paper and realize like, okay, you know, these aren't that big a deal in the big picture of things. And yeah, being able to move forward.

Yeah. Have you heard of something called psychological flexibility?

No.

I, I heard it on a podcast a couple of years ago and, um, I thought it was a really cool idea. So the, the reason I mention it, it, it's not about our feelings, it's about our feelings about our feelings.

Yeah.

Yeah. So it's, it's a bit of space from the feelings. It's, uh, it's not taking our feelings as seriously. As we have been doing. So that, that's kind of a— you're nodding along, right? Sorry, you can't, you can't see this, listeners, right? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. No, sorry. Yeah, I'm nodding along because yes, I totally agree.

But you can, you know that I'm doing it right. Um, but yeah, it, it, it's a little bit of— yeah, it's about maybe taking our feelings less seriously, perhaps being a little less embroiled in them, being a little less bothered about them, really realizing that the, the feelings aren't— it's— they're not the be-all and end-all that we think they are.

Yeah, I, I would agree with that. That's, that's a very good point. And I think we kind of touched on that a little bit the last time we talked just about You know, how everyone does take their feelings very, very seriously. And, you know, it's that and that's it. And just being able to carry that a little bit lighter and not hold on to those so tightly is—

yeah. Yeah. Because you've, you've, I think you've just, the reason I mentioned psychological flexibility is because Journaling sounds like it's something— sorry, psychological flexibility is something that it sounds like you're getting from your journaling. That's, that's why I mentioned it. You, you've discovered a strategy. I'm just kind of putting a name to the discovery that you have had.

I think definitely, definitely. And yeah, I had heard on a podcast, um, how, you know, you should write down all these thoughts, emotions, feelings, all the things, just to like get them out somewhere. So then you're just not constantly replaying them in your head. You know, it gives them space somewhere else for you to write it out and realize like, oh hey, these aren't that big of a deal. Let's just move on from it. Um, a lot of those thoughts and feelings that people have every day could probably be avoided and rationalized with and moved on from by writing it out, putting a name to it and moving on. So, yeah.

Yeah. I use, I use ChatGPT for this sort of stuff as well.

I do too. Yeah, that is a, I love AI sometimes, you know, it will, sometimes I have an idea in my head that I wanna get out and AI helps me with it and it's like, oh yeah, this is perfect. That is what I was exactly, you know, wanting to say. And then other times it's, ah, it's a beast that I wish did not exist. Uh, you know, it's a double-edged sword.

Yeah. Yeah. Uh, one of the guys I do, uh, I, I coach that I do, um, I've done quite a few group programs with, uh, he, he's actually created Uh, an AI version of himself. So hopefully of himself in terms of a coach.

Yes. Yes. Interesting.

Um, so you get to, yeah, because he's been coaching a long time and to, it's, it's pretty cost effective to work with him, um, in a, in a group, uh, you know, when he's doing a group program, but one-to-one is, is, is kind of loony expensive. So, uh, the, the, um, uh, the ability to work with his digital twin, if you like.

Yes. Is interesting.

It's pretty cool. I think more people, that's the first, he's the first person that I've heard that's doing that. But I, I haven't done a lot of digging around. I'm sure there are.

Yeah. I mean, I hadn't heard of that either. That would, that, see, you know, things like that, a person that is really good at what they do and, they can only be stretched so far. AI does come in handy for that type of situation.

And, and because the guy has done so many online programs that he's, he's done so much, um, recordings, you know, like you, when you go on his program, you, you, he's got, I don't know, maybe thousands of hours of video that he's been able to remove the, remove the text from and feed the, feed the AI thing, you know, to fine-tune it. Anyway, again, slightly digressing. Yeah. So what, what do you think, what, what gets in the way of our thriving?

Definitely ourselves and the expectations we set for ourselves and You know, I'm constantly thinking about how all of us in the world have the same 24 hours in a day. We all just choose how to spend it. And, you know, I'm constantly being asked the question of, okay, how do you do all these things? A lot of people think that I do a lot of it well. I will not say I am an expert on any of it, and I definitely do not do all of it well. But, you know, To the outside eye, it looks like I have it all together. And so, you know, with that, I always encourage people to remember, like, we all do have the same amount of hours in a day. We just need to choose how to spend it. So what are top priorities in your life? Like, what makes you thrive? What fills up your cup? Like, start with those things. Do those first. Who are the people in your life? Like, for me, it's my children and my husband. Like, what makes them thrive? What can you do to help them be successful and thrive in their everyday lives. And map that out first and then make the choices and surround yourself with people who are going to help you build that up, help you build that goal. Because, yeah, I mean, there are a lot of people in the world who do— kind of going back to take thoughts and feelings, and they just take it all way too seriously and just hold on to it. Like, we had that conversation last time of we all are just really, really deep in our thoughts and our feelings and our emotions, and sometimes we don't need to be. Some of it we can let go of and move on, and no one's gonna know. You know, we were the only ones that were carrying these harmful thoughts and opinions about ourselves or about someone else.

Yeah.

That was only bringing us down. So, Just letting go of all of that, remembering we all are human, we all have the same amount of hours in a day, and it's just we're choosing how to spend them.

So, or not, or not.

Yeah.

Yeah. Um, you, you said something interesting about, you know, the, the importance of our thoughts. Uh, and I, I had a, I had a flashback. A flashback to a, a, like a coaching weekend I went on.

Mm-hmm.

Maybe just, just before lockdown.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, and there was maybe 200 people in the room, uh, and somebody talked about the importance of thought, uh, and, uh, and, and asked a question of the audience, uh, the importance of thought. Yeah, and, um, I was the only one that put my hand up.

Really?

Yeah. So the, so the, the question was, um, how important do you think thought is, or something like that.

Uh-huh.

And do you think thought is, you know, who, who, who thinks thought isn't important? And I put my hand up. Right? Mm-hmm. So, and they, they all started looking at me, right? You know, and I, I said, I'm sure. Yeah. I said, look, my, my head's full of all sorts of rubbish. I, I, I don't take my thought that seriously.

Yeah.

Um, but the, the guy was kind of the, the guy at the front was, uh, it was obviously, you know, there to tell us how, what we should think or how we should think or what we should feel. And I, I just thought, well, it's the truth, right? We, we all, you know. Yeah.

Yeah. You really threw him off.

I threw him, but I, I felt, I, I felt a slight warmth of, I'm sure, you know, I, I didn't go, I didn't feel, I didn't go bright red in the face. Uh-huh. But I felt a slight warmth.

Uh-huh.

And, uh, yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm, I was talking about like individual thoughts.

Yeah. Yeah.

I, I wasn't, I wasn't talking about focusing on thriving rather than not thriving or, you know, I, I wasn't talking about the, I was just saying that my head is sometimes full of rubbish and I don't take it all that seriously.

Well, I think that there's a lot of people that Don't think about that. You know what I mean? I think, like we said, everybody takes it too seriously and every thought needs to have an emotion tied to it and it needs to be expressed and all the things. And there's very few that have that outlook like you do. And I really appreciate it because, yeah, I've been there myself and have felt all the emotions, all the thoughts. They need to all be tied to each other. And They don't. Um, so I think it would be very helpful to society as a whole if, um, more people would think that way and be, you know, hold looser to their thoughts that they carry, I guess.

And I still fall for them all the time, right?

Oh yeah.

Uh-huh. Yeah. I'm, I'm not like you, right? This is human.

Exactly. We're all human. We all, yeah.

Uh-huh.

It's a constant battle. But, um, I think what starts to make the difference is when we can realize it, call ourselves out on it, and do better.

Yeah. What have you learned from, you mentioned expectations earlier on and your own expectations. What have you learned or what, and what are you learning working with your clients in terms of Yeah.

Honestly, sometimes I kind of set myself up for failure with that because I do have super high expectations and everyone that works in our company, you know, I set them to a very high standard because we've all been through the adoption journey. We know what we needed during that time to feel well supported and And just be successful overall in our adoption journey. And so I have recently kind of had to let go of those really high expectations and, you know, kind of set some boundaries with hours and, you know, the hours put in and the hours spent on certain things. And because, yeah, it all comes back to who else is in, you know, who's being affected by my decisions, AKA my family, and what's making them thrive? Well, more when mom is present and, you know, can do all these things with them. And so I did kind of have to have a hard conversation with myself on, okay, you can't do it all in the 24 hours of the day. You do have to set little goals, little expectations, and just Just work through it every day and know you don't need to constantly be there for someone. And I think that does kind of set us apart as well in the fact that we are there for our families when they need it. And you call us at midnight because you got a phone call that you need to travel because your baby's being born, we're going to answer the phone. But outside of that, it's important to set boundaries and, you know, normal business working hours and stick to that when you can and all the things. So I've recently had to have that conversation with myself and give myself some tough love and remind myself that it's okay to set boundaries and, you know. Do that. So cool.

We're coming up on time here, Valerie. Is there anything else you'd like to share that I've not asked you about?

Well, I think we kind of a little bit ago hit it here on just, you know, I want to give the reminder again that we all have the same 24 hours in a day. We can all thrive. Um, we just have to choose what fills our cup and go out every day, set those goals to try and meet it so we can thrive and, um, be better individuals for ourselves, for our families, for our businesses, all the things. So I appreciate your perspective on it all and giving me some food for thought and Yeah, I appreciate you inviting me on today.

Yeah, it's been a pleasure, and, and, uh, you've given me and the listeners plenty of food for thought too. So, been— thanks, Valerie. And, uh, as always, listeners, I'd encourage you, if you're interested, to check out more about what Valerie's up to. Then, um, links in the show notes to her website and her socials. And, uh, we'll speak to you again very soon. Take care. Bye-bye.