Lifesaving Insights With Adoptive Mom Lori Schumaker

Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of the Thriving Adoptees Podcast. So today I'm delighted to be joined by Laurie, Laurie Shoemaker. Laurie, welcome to the show. I'm really looking forward to our conversation today.

Thank you, Simon. I am really excited to be here with you, and I am just honored to share this space with you and encourage others.

Likewise, likewise, I'm honored. So, uh, Laurie and I spoke last week or the week before, and, uh, we talked, we came up with this idea of life-saving insights. And Laurie is taking this very seriously. She's written down, she's done some homework like I'm sort of a schoolteacher, and she's come up with a list of her kind of like top 10, 9, 10 or so life-saving insights as an adoptive mum. And what we're going to do is we're going to kind of dive into a couple of those and we will get through as many as we can at the depth that they deserve.

Right.

Right. So we're not going to rush them. Um, and, uh, what Laurie's going to do is she's going to actually turn this into a blog post as well. So as always, listeners, uh, check out the, uh, check out the show notes for links to the guest's website and socials, and especially on this episode because Laurie's going to cover the, the life-saving insights that she's had that we don't have time to cover in depth on the podcast. So, so number one was your, was your faith, right? So yeah.

So my faith, um, I— that has to be first and foremost because without that, I feel, um, I think so much more would have been lost in our lives because, because adoption is beautiful, but adoption is hard. We all know that as adoptive parents, we know, and adoptees, we know that adoption begins in grief. Adoption begins in something that was, was broken. And it doesn't mean that something beautiful doesn't come from something broken, but it is, it does start with broken. So therefore, it's hard. It's hard to walk through it. And so for me, it was faith. And what I've really— the biggest insight into my faith through adoption is the concept of stability. We live in a very volatile world, up and down. It's— that's just life in general. And today's world, I feel that it's even more volatile because we have a hard time hiding from it with social media and news and everything that's out there all the time. And innately, I believe we all long for something to hold on to, something that maybe we can control, or something to hold on to to keep us steady as everything's going up and down. And for me, Jesus is that. He's the steady. I know what Jesus says. I know what his word says. I know he's His thoughts about me, his feelings for me. I know who he is and what he is, and he remains the same. His word tells us he remains the same. He was the same. He is the same and same and will be the same forever. Time doesn't change anything about him or his love for his children. So to have that stability, to be able to look at him, to know that. He is the one that keeps me stable. That's, that's, he's steady when the world is not. I want control that I can't have, but there's more peace in that lack of control when I know God already has the story written. Wow.

Wow. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna put a kind of a non-religious, some non-religious metaphors to that, just hopefully Because we've got some religious listeners and some less religious listeners. And also, it might help even the religious listeners see it in a slightly different way. So the, um, the, the, the first metaphor that came for me, to me, was, you know, you talk about stability. So I was thinking about groundings, you know, grounding or foundations.

Mm-hmm.

Like, uh, standing firm, being, being firm in your faith, being firm, firm in our belief, being, uh, anchored.

And yes.

And, and also the next one that comes to me is like, so if we're anchored, you know, there's that the metaphor of, of the, the tree bending with the breeze. So like the roots are secure, but above the body of the, you know, above the trunk of the tree is going with the flow rather than trying to stay firm and solid and snapping.

Correct.

In the window.

Yes.

The other one that came to me is a metaphor from a mentor of mine, Um, a guy called Michael Neal. He's not in the adoption space. He's like a, uh, what would you call him? Some people might call him a spiritual guy, not, not really non-religious spiritual teacher. Some people might call him like a coach. Um, I guess he's not really a psychological coach. He's more like spiritual kind of stuff. Um, and he's, he, he follows, he shares something called the 3 principles. which were actually created by an adoptee, a guy called Sidney Banks. So Michael O'Neill talks about, um, feeling like we're on a roller coaster because you talked about the ups and downs, right? But he, he said he, he came up with an idea of, uh, the, the roller coaster is on a, on a barge. Right? A big barge. It's a big roller coaster on a big barge, and that barge is floating steadily down quite a quiet stream. So we're going through these, we're going through these ups and downs, the ups and downs of day-to-day life, the volatility that you're talking about. And yet we're being— and so it feels like we're riding the ups and downs of our emotions. But underneath, maybe the stream is, is the faith that, that, that is actually meaning that our life is perhaps steadier than it looks, or than it feels. That's it, steadier than it feels. It feels like it's very up and down. But it, at the, as, as the same time as we're going up and down, The water's taking us gently to where we should be.

If you think also of— I've often used the example of doing some, like, yoga. And if you're trying to strike a balanced pose, you're told put your eyes on— to focus on one thing and keep your eyes on that. If you close your eyes, you lose your balance. If you start looking around the room, You lose your balance and you start falling. And so when you keep your eyes steady, you can remain balanced. You won't fall over. You won't, you won't, you won't fall over, or you, you might, but not as easily.

Yeah.

But keeping your eyes on that, and I always say, you know, keep my eyes on the thing that matters most and keep my eyes on the Lord and his word that tells me I am capable. I can do all things. This will be okay. He's got the world in his hand. He's, he's, he can fill my gaps when I'm not living up to my standards as a mom. I know, like, I'm trying, but, but we're not perfect. So it makes you let go of imperfection or of the fear of imperfection or the, the perfection problem because I know that he'll fill my gaps. I know that when I fall short, that he's going to fill that. And I know that my errors are going to be made good because he also says, I make all things good for those who love me. He works all things together for the good of those who love me. So I also know that when I fall short, when I make errors, when I mess things up, when bad things happen, I don't have to panic and fall apart and see doom and gloom in that moment. I can know that, you know what, this really stinks right now. This is miserable. This is not where I want to be. It doesn't feel good. But I believe because of what I've seen, what I've witnessed, what I've lived already, that He's been true before and He'll be true again, that somehow this ugly moment, this awful thing, Will be weaved together into my life to make a good someday again. Yeah.

Um, is this— I am going with a religious thing here. Um, uh, this too shall pass. Is that what we're talking about here?

Yeah, yeah, definitely. It's a piece of that, but it's a little bit more because it's more than just bearing that it will pass. It's believing that this Something bad will be used for something good later as well. That, and when we look back in our lives, all the really good things, they were valuable because they were hard. The things that are really good in life are never really easy.

Yeah.

It's what makes them so valuable. So when we think back to the bad things that happened, we know that that made us who we are today. We know that, that those things— now, would we want to go through it again? Sometimes no. But sometimes I look at the worst things that I went through in my life, and I think, if I didn't want to do it again, would I?

Yeah.

I mean, if I could change it, would I? I don't know, because it brought me right to where I am today, in the place in this world with the human I am today. And had I not gone through that hardship, I don't know that I'd have the heart I have today. I don't know that I'd have the compassion or the empathy Or the desire to, to do better, to be, to love well, to care for my children, to try and help them do things better, to, to, to write, to help others, to encourage others, to inspire others. I, I wouldn't be there had I not gone through that. Yeah.

So, um, I, I don't normally do this, but something's saying to me, like, but what about the people that are saying Pull in as polyamorous for thinking like this, talking like this? What would you say? What would you say? I guess they're probably not listening anymore, so whether we need to—

I know, they probably tuned me out. I never— I, you know, first off, I don't, I don't ever want to come across judgmental or anything in my faith, but when it, it just— that it has sustained me through so much. And and it's it's just part of my story. It's part of who I am, and and I don't think it's a Pollyanna because we can't say Pollyanna story that that says that my life story isn't true, and I'm not looking through rose-colored glasses. I'm I'm I'm I I went through hard stuff. I went through terrible hard stuff long before we ever even chose to adopt our Selah. And, and so, no, it hasn't. It's not Pollyanna. It's, it's, it's my story. And, and I could just testify to that. And for anyone that is listening, I can only tell you my story.

Yeah.

And I can only tell you, try it. That's all I can say. That if you're missing something, if you're longing for something, if you feel a hole in your heart and a gap and a longing for something, give Jesus a try. That's all I can say, I guess, you know. Yeah.

Um, there's, uh, on the way to the swimming pool, um, there's a, there's a banner up and, and it's, I think it's trypraying.co.uk. I mean, that it's like test it out for yourself. Um, I, I heard a guy that I listened to who people call him a spiritual teacher, but he, he really doesn't like that, being called a spiritual teacher. Um, and, and he said, look, um, if you ask me, if you ask me, uh, to— should, should you trust what I say or Should you distrust what I say? He said, "I prefer you to distrust what I say and go and find out for your go and find out for yourself." And when when I used to do a lot of work in in elementary schools, what we call primary schools here, and so I'd be sat stood in front of a class of thirty kids. And I'd ask them, I'd, I'd make a statement to them, and then I'd say, do you want to— do you want me to prove that to you so you can decide for yourself? Uh, and they said, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so there is an incredible strength of finding stuff through our own exploration, our own experiment, um, our own curiosity, rather than taking stuff.

Yes. And that's, that's what I do with my children as well. You know, it's, yeah, in the beginnings, of course, as a family, because that's our faith system, I, that's what I teach them. But as they grow, it had to be their own. They had to explore it and understand and And have their own relationship with Christ and, and determine which direction, because God doesn't want us forced to go or just believing it because someone else told us to believe it. He really wants an authentic relationship and that it's not authentic unless it's authentic. It can't be forced. Then it's not authentic. Yeah.

So is there a moment that comes to mind when this was tested, this particular moment?

So, as far— tested as far as my faith?

Yeah, um, when you— perhaps when you were, um, facing some challenge and, um, and it— and there was a, a moment of, um, of doubt, or— I don't really know the question I'm asking. Uh, presumably this, this is a deepening. This is a— it's an ongoing deepening of faith, right? I'm guessing. Yeah.

Yeah.

So is there— are there been moments where, where the Where it's gone deeper.

Okay. Yes. So as it's, it's gone deeper, I think with each step, you know, when we, when we came home with Selah, I thought I was prepared, but I wasn't prepared for the trauma and the grief and the everything that she was bearing. I wasn't prepared for that. All her medical diagnosis, we had no idea that she had And the number of medical complications, physical, physically medical complications, and then adding the trauma and the mental health piece to it. As prepared as we tried to be, we weren't prepared. And when you hit a hard time, so she comes home, we're all excited, all your friends are and families like excited. Excited and thinking, oh, you've been wanting this for so long and now you're here, she's here and everything's wonderful and, oh, it's just like, let's have a party. But yet what happened is we had a little girl that kicking, screaming, biting me, wanted nothing to do with me, was terrified and had been abused that we didn't know about until we got her home. All these things had happened to her and no one on the outside of our world could understand because they, they had the Pollyanna glasses on. Oh, your family, it's beautiful, it's wonderful. And yes, it is beautiful. I don't ever want to say it's not because we love our little girl, our teenage girl now, so very, very much. But it turned our family upside down. And stripped us of the support group that we thought we had. So without the support group that I thought we had, with our family tipped upside down, with every bit of everything that was going on, it—the hard things trigger your own brokenness. So my own dysfunction, my own things that I thought had healed were not healed because I guess you know when you have wounds and you maybe bury the wounds and you and you. Think they're healed, but when there's something—a thorn—that keeps picking at that wound, it eventually opens again. And that happened for myself and my husband. So our marriage began to struggle. He dealt with things in his way. I dealt with things by taking—he—he dealt with them at work. He went to work. He wanted to keep something steady. So work was what he would keep steady. He'd keep going, keep doing, and just keep focusing on that. I was at home trying to manage the other 2 kids and being at the children's hospital every other day, plus with her, dealing with all of the pieces, trying to find counseling, trying to find— get a support group together, trying to put all these pieces together. And I felt like, God, I have been so faithful and so obedient to where I believed you to call. Where you were calling me. And, and I've loved so big and I've tried so hard. Why is everything in a million pieces around my feet? Why do I feel like I don't have enough energy to get through the next step? Why do I feel like I want to just climb into my bed, pull the covers over my head, and never come back out? Why am I afraid to walk down the hall to my daughter's room? Each morning because I'm not sure what's— what I'm going to find. Why? Why? Why, God? Where are you? And so I had to wrestle with God time and time again through those times and, and ask him where, where was he. And so that would be one time. Another time was a few years later after we'd made some progress, but then really plateaued.

Mm-hmm.

And we got to a point of realizing that our Selah is really, aside from a miracle, which I fully believe in, a miracle is possible. But aside from a miracle, our daughter will never be independent. She won't live the dreams that I had in mind. I, I don't have a little girl who can read. She's 16 and she can't read. And I have. I had to adjust all my dreams. I had to realize that no, she probably wouldn't be going to proms. She may never, probably won't ever be getting married. I won't be a grandma someday. Those things, you know, yes, I believe in miracles, and yes, those things are possibilities, but because of her health issues too, it just. probably won't. And there's grief in that. But then when you feel the grief and the disappointment, you also feel the guilt. And so then you feel like, what's wrong with me? I shouldn't be feeling guilty. This is my daughter, and I should just be happy that I have her. And why am I worrying about these other things? But you have to wrestle with those, those visions of what you viewed as your dream. And you have to let go of that control again. And so that was in that process of accepting that process of grief and embracing what is instead of grieving what isn't. I had to wrestle with God again. And so those were 2 really big highlight moments. But I feel like, goodness, it's, it's, it's a constant thing because everything that comes your way. Is something new. It's a new season, like with our daughter now in the teenage years, and she has these hormones, but yet developmentally she's only 5, about 5 or 6 years old. So it's a real conundrum of emotions going on there, and it's really difficult to manage. And so yeah, it's that unsteadiness again, but when I take my eyes off the problem and I put them back on the fact that, okay, Jesus, before you showed me that my adopt— the adoption process didn't go the way I thought, my life before adoption didn't go the way I thought, nothing has gone the way I thought, but I look at where my life is right now and it's beautiful. I am so— I am blessed beyond measure. I am so thankful for what I have. So what's to say that— who am I to say that just because Selah isn't going to live the life that I thought she was going to live, that that's not a really valuable and important life, that you love her just as much? You don't love her any less because you're not going to make her the vision of my dream. You love her and have made her life valuable because In and who she is right now, she affects so many people in the day-to-day. And so it's a matter of seeing— when I wrestle with God, I come back to he's in control. He's that steady place. His word guides me, and he tells me there's a value. There's value in everything he does. And even if it feels hard to me, even if it is hard, He's making something beautiful in that. And the example of Selah, this little girl, everyone at school, her high school she goes to, it's a special ed program, but it's quite a large program. She is adored there. They love her. All they write about is how she brightens up a room. She also challenges them beyond belief. And we have lots of meetings and of how to handle behaviors. But yet she brings so much joy to so many people. She plays on the— they have a— called United Sports, and she plays basketball. She loves basketball because both her brothers are basketball— we're a big basketball family. And, and she, since the minute we met her, she had a thing about balls, and she loves throwing the ball. And the child can shoot 3-pointers like you would not believe. Ever since she's been little, like, I can't hardly get the ball to go all the way to the hoop for 3-point shots. shot outside the arc. She's playing the basketball game. We have— she has a whole support group. All our friends and family and everybody showed up because Selah's playing. And that girl nailed 3 3-pointers in a row. Boom, boom, boom. It was phenomenal. And it was— everyone in the crowd was so excited. And the joy that I just saw around there and felt in the air was a reminder that no, things aren't working out like they are, like I thought they would. But gosh, they are pretty fantastic.

Yeah, there's, uh, in there, you— there's an incredible dichotomy, you know, between— you said that she, um, she lights up the room and she causes all this challenge, right? So, um, like, to me, I, I, maybe I'm just too left brain and, you know, black and white and blokey and stuff like that, you know. I, I'm like, explain more about this dichotomy. What, how do you ride the dichotomy? What, what's the—

So it really honestly seems it's like a reflection of our world today. I, I believe that our world seems so believe that we have to be an either/or. And I don't believe that. I believe there's a lot of and. There's a lot of grief. And there's a lot of joy. There's a lot of sorrow and a lot of joy. There's a lot of good and a lot of bad. I think both exist in all things. And so because our daughter has this, she will walk in a room She's kind of oblivious to other people's, um, necessarily their, their mood or the social expectation, but she just has this I'm here world and hello, hi, how are you? Just this big smile when she walks into the room. And, and on the other side of that, she also has, if she's in a sour mood. Like, she's coming in high, full of attitude, the eyes rolling, the head flipping, and the feet stomping, and the shoulders going back up and down, you know, and head shaking. And she's just got so much attitude. But it's— I think her opposite pieces of her personality really make people— I don't know, maybe it's Maybe it's the honesty. Maybe it's that there's something refreshing in in someone who is so authentically themselves, and it makes people feel comfortable to be themselves as well. I don't know if there's a piece of that, but but her joy is so great big. Her anger is great big. Her emotions are both great great big. Her joy is great big, and thankfully. Her joy is more often than her anger, especially in different environments. At home, typically, like any child is going to give more of their grief to their parents, right? So we see a little bit more of it at home and maybe her teachers that are closest to her, but in the school in general, and maybe the principal and the different office staff. And if she's sent to the office to go do something and she walks in that office, hi, everybody. It's Seyla and I have this. And, you know, she's just so happy and they just like, wow, this is, this is refreshing to see a smile and to see this, this bright, shining little girl. I always call her a little girl. She's not— she'll be my little girl forever, I guess. Right.

So, I mean, it is, I guess it's the, it's the, um, that she gets— she's not afraid. Like, so I, as you was talking, I was thinking about The— for some reason I was thinking about the swimming pool, right? So if I'm, if I'm not on podcasts or talking to people about adoption stuff during the day, I'm at the swimming pool, right? Um, and down at the swimming pool, they're very— I, I see kids losing it, right? You know, throwing a, a wobbler, throwing a tantrum because they've got shampoo in their eyes or because they don't want to go in the pool or because it's cold, or, you know, because their dad rubs them a bit hard when they're trying to dry them off, or whatever, you know. And then I— so I see that. And, and then, um, but I also see kids having— getting over it, that really, really quickly.

Mm-hmm.

They— the, the emotion— that there's no, there's no guilt with feeling bad. There's no guilt at having a tantrum. They're just over it. They go from anger to peace, anger to giggles in a heartbeat, whereas we'll mull over it on it, you know, like, so I've been thinking, I've had a bit of a tricky day today, and I, but then I've been a bit of, you know, worrying about worrying and, you know, why am I thinking like this? No, no. So I've been ruminating. There's been quite a lot of rumination going on. for me. Um, and, and then also about the swimming pool, that all the adults there, all the, the, the people that I take, the guys and girls that work at the lifesavers and work behind the counters and stuff like that, um, they've, they've got— when I ask them how they're doing, um, a lot of them will say not bad. And I occasionally, I will joke to them because I've been I know, I know a lot of them. I've been going there a long time, and I know them, a lot of them, very well. So I would joke, and I say, "What's this? What's this disease that you've got around this this pool?" Right? It's called not baditis. Not baditis. Now they're pretty happy crew for for a for a leisure center. You know, I've been to I've been to other places that they're nice, and and they're doing a great job, and they. place is in good shape, it's clean, and they know what they're doing. But there's still a lot of them have not bad-itis. And I'm gonna guess Sailor doesn't have not— she never has not bad-itis.

No, no, it's either happy-itis or angry-itis. There's no middle ground. It's one or the other. And you just, you hope for the good. And And I'd say, you know, even when she's angry in one minute, like then at school and has like an outburst or, or gets frustrated because they're trying to actually make her read and, and she has a little fit and does a couple things, and then the next minute she's laughing and telling the teacher how much she loves her. So it's, you know, it's, it, it is— there's no, no No, not any of the not bad ideas. Yeah, yeah. I can't make it sound quite as neat as you say it because with your accent it just sounds way better than when I say it.

Oh, okay. I'll take that as a compliment. Thank you. So did you— was there a moment when you saw this for the first time, this, you know, the either-or thing and that Rather than the and, rather than either or, and the comfort in the comfort riding the highs and lows and being around, being around somebody that's riding these highs and lows. Was there a moment that—

I don't know that there was one moment. It's just been a process and accepting that, honestly embracing that. And I don't—I think it's just been time and process, and I still sometimes have to fight it because I still want to be the mom that fixes it. So when it's the wrong side of the itis, then I'm—I'm trying to make it better, and I can only do so much, and then I have to let go, and I have to just ride those waves and—and. And stay steady and know that it's going to be okay. That even if she's, she's doing something that just doesn't, that can be very hurtful or disappointing, I, I can't forget the good. And I have to trust that the bad will, will work its way out, that all things will work together for the good of those who love God.

And, and And that's—

Yeah, it's an ongoing process. I don't, I don't know if anyone has figured out how to accept it once and for all. I don't know. But I think it's our human nature to, to try and control. We always get ahead of ourselves. We want to overthink it, or we want to overdo it, or we want to strive, or, or do the opposite. We freeze in fear and hide from it. And avoid it. But we're trying— we don't want to embrace what can be challenging.

Yeah, I mean, I think we're, we're, um, we see everybody else doing, trying to do that, and So we do it. I think it's learned. I think it's a learned thing. I find myself saying this quite a lot at the moment, but, you know, life isn't a chem— it's not like a chemistry experiment. So like in chemistry experiments when I was 14, 15, you know, you used to get, uh, you'd have your equipment list and you'd have your process, step 1, step 2, whatever it was. Methodology. They called it something else. It's a long time ago. I can't really recall what they called it. But, you know, you— so you took these ingredients, you had this equipment, um, and you did— you followed this process. And, and that's how we kind of like— and we're— so we're, we're educated to think in a process way, right? And we go out into the world Yes. Whether it's parenting, whether it's business, whether it's, I don't know, what other areas of our life, you know, we're looking for those, we're looking for those, we're looking for those steps.

Yes, this is true. Yes, definitely.

And we're craving, and people know that we're, you know, you talked about volatility and uncertainty. earlier on. And, you know, so we feel uncertain, and people know that we feel uncertain, and they know that by offering us certainty, then they will, then they will, they will have us, you know, like they, we will buy into that certainty. And we fall for it. And then it didn't happen quite that way. And then we learned something new.

Yes, this is very true. Yeah, I think from the very beginning as children, we're conditioned to try to find a way to make sense, to control, to put things together. It's part of the learning process. I guess it's probably, it is how we learn, but yet it's also what can cause us Much grief. Yeah, within ourselves.

And, and that's, I guess, that we're back to your expectations idea as well, because if we're expecting to be able to control it and then we can't, we're setting ourselves up for failure that way, aren't we? And then that's gonna, that's actually gonna reinforce it. So if we're Am I making sense here?

Yes.

So yeah, so we're gonna fall, and that'll— so the more we fail, the more we're gonna seek to control, and it's just going to become a negative, like a vicious cycle. But yeah, a vicious cycle, vicious cycle down until somebody says to us, oh, it's not kind of— it's not supposed to be like that, um, or it's supposed to be the other way. And, and so something I found out a couple of weeks ago, actually a month or so ago, I was talking to somebody about having a meltdown in a, in a therapist chair like 6 or 7 years ago, right? Um, and, uh, somebody said to me, no, that's what you're supposed to do. I, I, I, I, I didn't, because I've been coached. I've never, you know, I've, um, yeah, because I've been coached and no coach has ever caused me— well, I think actually one did actually, but you know, it's been a— they, they weren't— that's not where they were taking you. They, they were, they, they were trying to build you forward, not, not, not strip you of the Yeah, but yeah, so yeah.

So you didn't expect that?

I didn't expect that. And looking back on it, I, I'm looking back on the thing, I think, oh well, she didn't, she didn't reassure me. Um, maybe she didn't— well, no, I thought, but it didn't work. Well, it only because my expectation was false.

Only. Only.

It's a big only. So I'm conscious of time, uh, Laurie. Um, is there anything that you want to ask me, anything you'd like to share, or—

Um, let's see, trying to think of some of the— look at look at my notes of things that I had thought of to share and what we haven't really kind of covered in our conversation.

That's okay.

Hopefully you edit some of this out, right?

No editing. Oh, no editing. She's— we're running out of time, and it's down to me. I went to the wrong Zoom room for 10 minutes, and now I'm rushing Laurie. Sorry, listeners, not 100% today, but this is real life, right?

This is real life. It's our expectations versus our reality, right? We flex our expectations and we embrace our reality.

And we do. And that's a beautiful point to bring it in on. Thank you, Laurie. It's been a pleasure. I've really learned a lot, actually, of Especially the, the and rather than the either or stuff. I think that's, uh, that's an area where you've given me, um, prompted me to, to a big insight. So thank you very much.

I appreciate that. Thank you so much for having me, Simon. And I just, um, I really hope that this encourages your listeners. Thank you. And thank you so much for what you do. I really appreciate all of it.

You're a star. Thanks a lot. Thanks, listeners. We will speak to you, uh, very soon. And next time I will be better. I will be more realistic with my expectations. Thanks a lot, listeners. Bye-bye.