Rising To Challenges With Ella Smith

Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of the Thriving Adoptees Podcast. Today I'm delighted to be joined by Ella, Ella Smith from Adoption Choices of Texas. Really looking forward to our conversation, Ella. You've, you really put a smile on my face every time we talk.

Oh, you're so sweet. Thank you, thank you for having me. Thank you for allowing me to share a little bit of What we do and my passion for adoption.

Yeah, because you've got a big heart for this.

I do, I do. I, I have learned and grown so much into this side of, of, of the adoption world, and I love it. It's just being there supporting, and it's a privilege for you, for sure.

Yeah, we're so lucky to be doing what we're so passionate about.

And you know what, it's working within adoption is a privilege, like I just said, because you have the opportunity to work with expectant parents, with adoptive families, even with children who are in the system and they are just looking for someone who loves them. What keeps me passionate about this is, it's all about relationships. I just love it. It's just, you, you meet so many people, and I'm definitely a people person, so I love to get inside of those relationships, realize that every story is completely unique. There is no 2 adoptions like the same, you know. Everybody has their own story, they have their own life and, and, and, and paths during this process. So it's, it's, it's, it's a passion for me, and, and I always wanted to work in an environment where I can be helpful. And it's also a world that is important that everybody knows about it. It's just, it's so important. And I want to be an advocate for everybody to learn more about adoption. So that's why my passion is there.

Yeah. Yeah. And you live and breathe it, Ana.

Completely. I mean, adoption is in, in my everyday, in my everyday. Yeah.

So this thriving, this thriving question, this thriving thing, if it's a thing, right? What does, what does thriving mean to you, Ana?

I think thriving has to do a lot with resilience. I like to, to look at it like where you thrive the most, where you do your best, is when you are faced with things that you were not expecting. So, you— everybody's resilient, some others more resilient. But I believe everybody is resilient, so everybody has the ability to thrive in different environments, to do their best, to succeed in whatever they want to succeed. So thriving is show me your best. That's how I look at it. Yeah.

So what, what's the difference that makes the difference then? You, if with different levels, you're saying that different people have different levels of resilience, right? Um, what do you think is the, the difference that makes the difference in somebody's resilience?

I think resilience, like I told you, everybody has resilience. My personal opinion is That some people are being faced with more opportunities to be resilient than others. Some people are going through life facing more challenges than others. Everybody has challenges. Let's start with that. Everybody has challenges, but not everybody faces them. on the same way. But everybody has resilience. Everybody. It's just how many times you have been facing with challenges.

Yeah.

So emotional, financially, psychologically, I mean, all kinds of challenges. So every time that you are faced with a challenge, it's every opportunity to show how thriving you can be and how resilient you can be.

So are you saying the more opportunities we have to, to, to, to show it, the more resilient we become?

I think so. I think so. I mean, resilience is, is something that you definitely develop every time you have a challenge. I mean, you learn from your mistakes. You, every time that you have a conversation, conversations like this gives you the tools to say, hey, you know what, maybe just little, that little part that she says about everybody is resilient, it resonates with me. So every time I'm faced with a challenge, I'm going to use my thriving. I'm going to use my, all my best.

Yeah.

Become more resilient.

So one of my kind of things I see about resilience is, or my view of resilience is that it's something that, it's something that's seen rather than strengthened. Do you see what I mean?

I don't think so. I think resilience for me is very positive. In a, in a way that it makes you grow.

Yeah. I'm not sure. I, I think for me it's— of course it can be both.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, of course.

And I'm maybe being splitting hairs here, right?

No, no, no, by all means.

I, I used to think it was like going to the gym.

Okay.

And you get stronger, right? But now I think that it's actually something that we see. So we, we don't appreciate our own resilience and, and until we're faced with that challenge, and then we see, we see the resilience. Rather than it being strengthened, it's strengthened by being seen, not strengthened over time. So for me, and why that's important for me is because there's no delay in it. Like so you've got to go to the gym if I want to bench press whatever.

Okay, okay.

If I can only bench press, if I can only bench press, press, I can't do any bench pressing at all. I am a swimmer, not a gymmer. But anyway, yeah, yeah. But if I, I mean, I need to build my way up. Yes. My goddaughter, right? My goddaughter is a Paralympian, right? So, um, she, she's going for 120 kilos, which is what, like 240 pounds, right? She's working her way up to that, and that takes time for that strength to build. Correct, to build. That's physical resilience, but physical strength, but emotional strength is more like we— I think it's something that we don't appreciate that we've got it and then we see it like, you know.

Okay, I know where you're going, but for me resilience is your ability, your own ability To recover, to adapt, to bounce back. I like that, to bounce back from adversity or for, I don't know, hardship or changes.

Yeah.

And it takes, it takes mental, emotional Even your behavior have to change, adapt to become a better person or to go out of that challenge and to grow and to continue functioning because you have to continue functioning. Yeah.

So rather than me taking us down a philosophical uh, and theoretical route.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

On resilience. Why don't I bring it back up to the top and, and say, uh, where, where in, in your life have, have you seen or strengthened your resilience? What, what, what's been the— have there been any defining moments for you in terms of you seeing your own resilience?

are we talking professionally or personally? Because I have all kinds of examples, but I think professionally in the adoption world, that is the one that we are here. I mean, I will say one of the biggest cases, and I'm not going to talk in a specific one.

Yeah.

But every time that we have a disrupted adoption. You have to adapt. You have to analyze what is going on and keep providing an ethical, transparent, and always thinking on the child-centered adoption experience. So every time that we do have a disruption for whatever reason, millions of reasons, again, each adoption is unique. So there's millions of reasons why adoption will not work. You have to bounce back and you have to keep the child's best interests in mind, and you have to find another home, and you have to adapt and change and, and be quick and find a place, another placement for that child, because it's our best interest. So you learn, you learn from that experience, and that makes you more resilient, and you just keep growing. That's that. I will say that that is my, the biggest resilience moments is every time we have a disruption.

Yeah. Because it must be an emotional time.

It is for everybody, all parts involved. I mean, it is— oh, and that's why I think there is a lot of misconceptions about adoption because of the disruptions. You hear more about what is not good in adoption other than what is the best.

about adoption. Yeah.

So, um, that's when I feel like we are always trying to, to educate people, like, yeah, this happens, that's normal, but we, we're resilient. Let's move on. I'm not going to use that word anymore because— but we thrive. We, we thrive under these circumstances and we, we find solutions. Yeah.

What have you learned about stopping those disruptions happening in future? Or a disruption happening?

You know what? I think one of the biggest lessons in adoptions is that their adoption is not a single event. I think adoption is a lifelong journey. So one of the things that we learn is to— we create a rapport with the expectant parents. We get to know them. We know what they are looking for. In, in terms of taking care of their child. We create really good relationships with adoptive families. So in the moment that we have a match, we know it's going to be a lifelong journey and it's going to be a lifelong relationship.

Mm-hmm.

The experience Of doing a match and finding that perfect place for that child is incredible. So you have to make sure that you are doing your best to prevent a disruption. So you try to cover all your bases. So we have kind of— I don't want to say a checklist. Because it's not a checklist. Again, everything is unique, but we try to make sure that we are placing children in families that first want to have a child and second, that is going to provide loving care, loving home for that child.

Yeah. So are you saying that you're trying to, You're trying to fine-tune the matching of parents and children.

Correct.

You're always working on that because that's going to be the— that's the best way to stop future disruption.

Unfortunately, it is not a perfect system. Unfortunately, this is— nobody has the perfect solution, the antidote, if I may, to prevent disruptions. Disruptions are going to happen for many reasons, but we want to make sure that our respected parents are supported. counseled, um, loved in a way that they feel that the family that they are going to place their child with is going to raise their child in the way that they would like if they had the opportunity.

Yeah.

So the relationship within all of us is so important. It's so important. You become— I mean, You know, I'm Hispanic, so I, I call every single placement that they're my nephews or nieces. So I'm Tía Ella for so many people. I'm Tía Ella and just, I just love to have that feeling of we are all in together. Yeah.

And you mean Auntie Ella, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Tía in Spanish is auntie.

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Um, so one of the things that we— I, I, I hear from other professionals is that sometimes, uh, there's, uh, adopted parents, uh, how should we say, they, they, they put— they sometimes put off searching for help until they're at crisis point.

Many times, many times. I— go ahead, I'm sorry.

Why, why do you think that is?

I think it's a lack of education. If we are able to train our adoptive families from the beginning, from the day that they call the agency saying I want to adopt. From that moment, there has to be clear, ethical, transparent conversations with them explaining what is adoption, what are the steps, what are you going to be facing, what are the challenges of an adoption, and Every single agency should provide the resources of counseling and during— not after you have been placed, it's prior to placement. There has to be trainings. They have to be access to knowledge, books, People who have read books, conferences, webinars, all kinds of information. I mean, educate yourself because this journey is going to be a roller coaster. So you are going to be super, super highs, and you are going to be in the very, very lows. When you are in the lows is when you are going to need the most support, because obviously when you're in the highs, you're in the happiest. I mean, but when you're in the lows is when you start looking for help. Don't wait until you are in the bottom. When you start feeling down, start contacting your agency, contact your counselors, school counselors, your personal therapist, people who actually understand a little bit about adoption, because there's a few elements that they're Different from the regular. I adopt a biological, to put in some words. So I think the best way that we can do is educate from the beginning. It's just, I'm a big advocate for education. Yeah.

I want to switch tack slightly because you, you talked about your own learning and growth in, in the first couple of minutes of the conversation. So What, what have you learned about yourself in, uh, in your, in, in terms of your own development in, in this, in this passionate career that you've found?

What, what adoption has brought me, what it has taught me is that everything that has to be with children and family Has to be a priority. I'm, I'm a big advocate for family unions, for, for children's well-being. I— the experience that this world has brought me is— the learning, I'm sorry, that this world has brought me is how much love people have in their hearts. I mean, everybody who thinks about adoption, who— not from the prospective parents or from the adoptive parents— everything is motivated by love. The love for your child, the love to have a family. And I have learned that The best outcomes, they come from the adoptions where everybody is involved, where everybody is in the process with honesty, with respect, and Open to learn. I mean, this— we know a lot about adoption, but we, we need to learn more. And I have grown as a person tremendously. I learned that this is not a job to make you rich, for sure, but the richness that you get and the personal satisfaction of being Children graduating from, from high school. I mean, to be invited to christenings or to bar mitzvah, or— I mean, it's amazing to see children thrive. I mean, you just bring into your home this little child and you graduate him and you Put them. It's, it's just amazing.

So you're talking about 2, I think you're talking about 2, 2 things here. You're talking about love and education as the kind of the key drivers of thriving. Yeah. Is that how you would, you, you would—

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. Um, because one of the things that people say is that love isn't enough, right? And when I hear that, I think, yeah, you might be right, but I wouldn't be dissing love, right? That's not—

Correct.

If love is what it's all about, you don't say love isn't enough. It would be more like, well, no, it's about love and education. rather than kind of denigrating love? I mean, it seems a bit of a funny thing to do to me.

You know what? Yeah, I know. And I respect people saying love is not enough. Love is enough when you have additional resources handed and you have passion. you are educated, you are, um, you just want to do good. I mean, love, for me, love is enough. And, and it should be enough because you, you are taking this trip. I mean, love is the motivation.

Yeah.

You want someone to love, you want someone to love your child. So For me, love is enough.

Yeah. But love's gonna drive, love's gonna drive the education, right? You're coming, it's the base. It's the base on every— it's the basis for everything. It's the fundamental part of everything.

It's the fundamental. Of course you have to put more ingredients. I mean, you cannot do a soup with water. Yeah. It's the basic ingredient, but you need to put more into that soup to just to talk for analogy.

But yeah.

Love is the main ingredient, but you have to put more things inside.

Okay. So, so education is gonna be one of the ingredients in this, in this love soup.

The salt.

And the salt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what else? What else goes? What?

I think compassion. I think compassion is something openness. Yeah, mercy. And, um, I don't know, I'm, I'm, I'm getting out of words. But I was—

Let's go back to compassion. What— so give me an example of compassion, or a moment. A moment.

Understand, understand the background. Of the— I'm talking about adoptive parents being compassionate towards the history of the child that they're adopting.

Yeah.

Um, even if it's a baby, if it's a baby, it's a toddler, it's a teenager, and they come with a history, and you have to be compassionate about that history and acknowledge, acknowledge their history. And be willing to support and respect that.

What about compassion for the birth parents?

Oh, 100%. They have to give themselves— they have to be compassionate to them because they are making a very important decision. They are making a lifelong decision and they need a lot of compassion towards themselves. To understand the reason why they're doing this, this process, why they're placing their children for adoption. And that's bravery too, you know, it comes hand in hand with compassion to understand your own story and why you are deciding to do this path. That's my compassion. Yeah.

And mercy. What do you mean by mercy?

It's just, it's love, it's understand. And in a way, not being judgmental, you know.

Mercy.

Everybody has to be merciful. Every everybody needs to understand that some of those decisions in adoption are being a decision. There are decisions that they are done. Well, people are in distress and when they are going through hard times. So you just, you just need to be compassionate. Mercy and compassionate is like the same word almost. Yeah. It's like mercy is like the treatment of being compassionate. I don't know. I'm just confused now, but yeah, it's very— Yeah.

I think compassion is probably what's going on within us, perhaps, and perhaps mercy is, is, is the external— it's what's, what's— it's what's visible from the outside. So it's more about what we do, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

So compassion is, compassion is, uh, if I, you know, it's feeling with, right? So It's, it's understanding somebody's, uh, and understanding somebody's emotions, you know, understanding the birth mum's, particularly her, her emotions, right? And, and maybe mercy is what we show, what, what we show to the, to the birth mother. That's—

Yeah.

That's the, that's the external manifestation.

Absolutely.

Perhaps, perhaps it's the manifestation of what's going on. inside. And perhaps it's about our treatment and our behavior and our actions.

Completely. I agree. Thank you, Simon, to clarify that for me, because it is definitely— it was in my head, but it was— I didn't know how to express, you know, like to come out.

It's English is a second language for—

It is, it is indeed.

For you. Um, uh, listeners, we, we, we had a— when Ella and I spoke last time, we had a long dive into her language lessons and all that sort of stuff. So she came to the UK to learn her, um, to, to learn her English or to fine-tune her— your English here. Um, so yeah, and, and To be honest, I have— I think if somebody put those 2 words together for me, I, I would be hard-pressed to, to figure it, to, to, to, to figure out what's the difference between the 2. But the kind of— it's, it's what comes in the moment, right? The, the solution comes in the moment. The wisdom comes in the, in, in, in the, in the moment. So, um, yeah. And we might say merciful as well. Yeah, full, full of compassion. Full of compassion. Full of compassion and, and, and, and merciful. And that's going to be really important for the, uh, not only for the relationship with the birth mum or birth dad or both, but it's also going to be really important for the adoptee. Because they're, they're going to see how we treat, how we, how we think about, how, how we speak about, about the birth parents, um, how we act to the, in front to, to, to the birth parents.

Agree.

Um, and there's the, there's, you know, one of the things that comes, keeps on coming back time and time again during these interviews is that if If we criticize or judge, to use your word, if we, if we judge the birth parents, then the, the, the adopted child may— will pick up on that judgment and may feel marred by the same judgment, implicated, may feel implicated by that same judgment.

Yeah. I, I agree. That's why I like open adoptions too. So when the child has the opportunity to know more about their birth parents and their— his, his or her own history, and if this child has the opportunity to know more about Why, the reasons behind, it helps for that child to grow with less resentment, more understanding, because at the end of the story, nobody's giving up on him. Because adoption is not giving up.

No.

It's giving a present, actually. It's not giving up.

And there's the more openness there is, the less questions there are, and the less, the, the less insecurity there, there, there is, and the less shame around it there.

And less stigma. We talked about that last time. It's, it's just, I think, um, the openness and transparency Um, is very valuable. And now, nowadays, yeah, is— I mean, I remember when I was a child and my, my brothers used to joke with me, telling me that I was adopted. And because I'm the one who looks completely different to them, they are very— they are Their features are very similar to my mom. I'm not, I'm completely different. So they used to tell me I was adopted and, and I believed it. Of course, I was a child, I was very young. And I remember that one day I asked my mom if that was true. There was no pictures of me, of my mom pregnant. I mean, it was so many things. Obviously, I'm the third one. By the third child, there's no pictures, there's nothing. It's like— And my mom was like, why would you believe that? I mean, we— even if you were, you are part of this family. There's not anything wrong for if you were adopted. She always tried to teach me, you belong here regardless. of how you came to this home. Obviously, then I find out I was not adopted growing up, but I was like, why my brothers will joke about it? Because on that time, and I'm talking 50 years ago, it was like a stigma. I mean, you're adopted, you are not loved. You— Now, Nowadays, I see kids proudly saying, I'm adopted. So I just love that, you know.

I just want to share something from a podcast I released last week, a young chap called Isaac. Isaac Melba.

Yeah.

from— who was adopted from Africa at 5. And, and, um, he— the, the, the— and he had some concerns, obviously, uh, he had some concerns growing up, uh, uh, the, the, the, the, the most— one of the most transformational moments for him is when he went public about his story. Okay.

He, he would—

he was Sick of getting the questions, right? Each school year, he was sick of getting the the questions. So he just told everybody the true story. Like when he got, and I'm not sure how well maybe it was when he was sixteen perhaps. I know one year in the first few days of of the school the school year in September, he just said. just told all the truth and told us, talked about the, the death of his parents, uh, and him being in an orphanage and then him being adopted to, to, to the States. And the, the, the teacher rang, the teacher rang, um, Isaac's mum and said, is this all true? He's told us all this. And she said, yeah, yeah, that's true.

Yeah.

But it was like a whole load of weight lifted off his—

Yeah, it's freedom.

It's freedom. It's freedom. Freedom with sharing, sharing the story. And it's the opposite. Freedom and openness. It's all together, right?

Exactly. Exactly. I mean, why? I mean, I don't have to be walking my Telling everybody I'm a biological child. I mean, I don't present myself like, hi, nice to meet you, I'm a biological.

No.

You know why I have to go through the true life? Hi, I'm adopted. No, absolutely not. I mean, it's just so weird. It's— I, I think we, we need to, to be open and transparent and, and just learn that adoption is part of life. I mean, and just learn, learn how, how, why happened. And there, like you just said so perfectly, it's less questions. No. Yeah, I just think it's, it's healthy, and I think it's appropriate. Yeah, for this time.

Indeed. It feels like we're coming up on time here, Ella. Is there anything that I've not asked you about that you'd like to share?

I think I would like to close with what people think about adoption. There are misconceptions, and I just want to say that A lot of people think that adoption ends when there's a placement, and in reality, um, adoption creates a lifelong— I have used that word a lot today—

lifelong connection.

It's true, right? It's a lifelong connection, and It's just embrace that connections with people and learn about their stories. And in adoption, you live all kind of emotions. You, you can experience gratitude. You experience loss, grief, love, back to love, curiosity, um, and joy. And all of them can be at the same time. One does not take the other away. So I think that's—

Indeed. And the— I just want to pick up gratitude. Yeah, these can be experienced. Okay. But here's, here's one tip. for you if you're a list— if you're an adoptive parent listening, right? Do not expect gratitude from your child because that is, um, spontaneous gratitude from within is great, but forced, forced or expected gratitude from, from without, without drives adoptees— Ella's nodding for the, for, for those listening. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do not expect gratitude. Because that will drive your— or could drive your, your, your, your child or teen nuts. Adoptees absolutely hate it. They hate being ex— that gratitude should be expected of them. Spontaneous from gratitude from within, fantastic. Forced from the outside, do not do it.

But you know why you should not expect gratitude? Because you're not doing you are not doing things. And even when you have biological children, you're not expecting them to be grateful all the— I mean, like, thank you for everything. It's— gratitude is not something that is forced. It's, it's not mandatory, not even with adoptive children, with your own children, biological, nothing. I mean, you— If you get— receive gratitude, Good for you, woohoo! But don't expect it ever. Just make sure that they are successful and they're thriving. Yeah. And if they are thriving out of this, they're doing great.

Thank you, Ella. Thank you, listeners. We'll speak to you again very soon. Take care.

Bye-bye.