Part 1 of Season 4 Episode 9: Dr. Michael Coonrod -- Classical Pianist, Recording Artist,...

Happy New Year 2024 and welcome back to another episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song. Here tradition meets innovation The Piano Pod with the dynamic pulse of today's world. I am your host Yukimi Song. I hope you all had wonderful holidays surrounded by your loved ones. After a brief break, I'm so happy to be back podcasting in the new year and interviewing incredible talents of the classical music industry. As an inaugural episode of 2024, I am excited to tell you that I invited Dr. Michael Kuhnrott, performing classical pianist, recording artist, educator, and arranger of music for the left hand alone, who has recently retired from the Interlochen Center for the Arts after a remarkable 46-year tenure as a piano faculty member. Usually I would continue the episode by reading the guest's bio right now, but today I wanted to do something different. Before our usual introduction and welcome, I decided to invite and chat with a special guest who is a dear friend and colleague of mine whom I've known for many years through working for this nonprofit organization in New York City as a board member and through many fun projects I got to collaborate with. He has also become a contributor and faithful listener of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song in recent months. So please allow me to introduce my friend, classical pianist, educator, web designer, and my personal tech advisor, Mr. Poki Wong. Yay, thank you.

Great to be here.

So today's guest, Dr. Koonrad, you introduced me to this amazing pianist and teacher. I know that you met him through the Interlochen Arts Academy. So tell us, what was it like learning from him? So let's start with how you met.

When I was 15 years old, I moved from Taiwan to Michigan, and I remember our first day there, all the all the new students. It's like a jury, right? You play for all the piano faculties unless you indicate who you want to study with. By the time, I didn't know anybody, so I followed the normal procedure. We play, I think, a piece or two and some scales, basic stuff. And then I was told I was going to study with Dr. Kunrat. So that's how we met.

So what was the reason you chose the Interlochen Arts Academy? I understand it's one of the prestigious music schools in the United States.

So at the time I was, we were looking at high schools that specifically for performing arts, and there were 3 of them. There are 3 different schools, one in California, one in Michigan, one in Boston. Uh, matter of fact, I was actually going to Paris originally, not the United States. So at the time I was learning French back home and my mom felt maybe we need to have a backup plan. So she flew here, visit schools. And then she thought Interlochen was the right choice.

Wow. I, but it's, it's surprising to me because after so many years, I didn't know that you were planning to go to Paris and studying French. Oh my goodness.

That's, I had, no, I had everything ready at the time. I have all the visa ready. I, everything was set, but because I was, I just turned 15 at the time and the life in Paris is really different. It's really different. You have to be on your own. So at the time, uh, my family thought maybe that's not a good idea. So that's what we were looking at as a backup point.

I can't imagine you speaking in French.

So it would— it took me a year. It's difficult.

I bet. But coming as a high school student from Taiwan, and I'm sure you've encountered so many, you know, cultural language differences, obviously. Later on, you came to New York and studied at Manhattan School of Music. You went through college and master's degree. But before then, starting from The Interlaken. What was it like?

I met Konrad after I learned, okay, I'm gonna study with him. I remember first week or even the second week of school after my lesson, he said, if I ever feel lonely, if I wanna feel like being at a home setting, he want me to call him because he said they have extra bedrooms. I'm more than welcome to stay with them. And that was only the second week I just met him. He doesn't know me. I don't know him. And that makes me feel like, wow, you would do that for me. Right. We left our family to come here to study and he wants to make us feel welcomed or even feel, you know, not too homesick.

Right. And also safe. Right. You know, I myself was an international student and then, you know, more than anything, because you feel so insecure, because you had to learn the language, that's one thing that really takes a lot of toll on you. You know, not knowing the language. I don't know how much you were speaking English at that time.

I was going to mention that. So I had very poor English back then. I had no idea what was going on. I remember my first day of class was not— September 11th, 9/11 happened. Uh, I was walking to lunch and going through lunch, we go through a hotel lobby. We have a hotel in our campus just for guests to stay in. And that's where the cafeteria was behind a hotel., and I was walking through the lobby and then TV was showing what happened during 9/11. And my English was so bad at the time, I thought it was a movie. I didn't know what was happening, what was happening at the time. So of course the school canceled the day. I can't remember detail, but it was a chaos, as you can imagine. So it was your first, really first day of school as a boarding international student, right? So once you have someone talk to you this way, saying that, hey, if you want, call me, you know, we'll pick you up, you can stay with us over the weekend. You know, that's really something.

So tell me what it was like to be part of Dr. Kunrat's piano studio at Interlochen.

You want to be better, right? That's why we practice every day. And it can be stressful. Maybe we will have competitions coming up or any reasons, right? Because Interlochen, just like conservatory, Right. Um, they were very, very strict or competitive. But with Kumrad, we are always— yes, you, of course we work hard, but he want to make sure that we, we have a balance. Where Interlochen is, we're basically in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by nature, right?

Oh, nice.

So he will take us out. I remember there were times we will run around the building. I mean, we were 15, 16 years old. He will take us running around the building, and you can see everybody was working so hard in the studio class, and we're the only one running around. Just 2 laps, really just 2 laps. We run around the building 2 laps. We'll come back in the building. He will have everybody lay under the piano when other people are playing. Or sometimes he will make tea for us in the studio class. Our studio class, he want to make sure that we are all relaxed, not too stressed. And it's all about the balance, right? We can just be in the practice room for, for a long time, but during the studio class, it was really important. We, we did a lot of, a lot of things that normal studio classes people, we teacher wouldn't do, you know. And, and we'll goof around. We were kids at the time, and, and, and that was, that was great. He takes time to talk to you. He cares about you. Being an artist or being a pianist, it's not— yes, you practice hard, you do all the right things, but you got to love what you do. And I think at the time, Dr. Kumrat, he always told us, we know he's really, really busy. He still performs. He made a lot of recordings. And how do you find the time? Right? And because he just loved what he does. It doesn't seem like a work to him. And so music, again, it can be very competitive or it can be something that it's about you, what you love, right? Not trying to— I want to be better than you, you know? Yeah, that's what I think. That's what one of the things I learned.

Do you have any fun stories besides all the things that you mentioned with Dr. Kumarat, learning from him, or maybe spending some time with him, like a memorable moment?

All the serious things aside, right? Because I think that everybody there will practice, we do academics, we do all that. But you know, the, the things I remember the most is those things that other people don't do. Again, it was doing studio classes because there was a group of us. He took us on the little hike behind the school. We found those roots. And he— we came back in the studio, he made us tea or something just from the roots during our studio classes. And I think at the time it was during the violinist week. I don't remember exactly the timing at the time, but I know the whole thing that he, he did that for us because he wanted us to do something else, not just practicing. I, I don't know if we're allowed to use fire at the time at The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song, but we made tea in the studio class. You know, those moments stay with you, right? Because those are abnormal normal moments, and you appreciate that. Don't take it too seriously. I guess that's why it is.

How did Mr. Conrad influence you and change your life?

He recently retired, and his retired concert was livestreamed on, on the website. I was able to watch it, and he played his transcription of The Danny Boy for left hand only. And at the time, I was like, oh man, this is so beautiful. I know he just recorded a CD And because I'm not there, at the end of the concert, he goes, when you leave, pick up a copy of the CD. He wanted to give it away. And all the time I was like, man, I really want it because such a good recording. So I wrote to Conrad. I said, I watched this. I would love to have a copy of your transcription because it's such a beautiful transcription. So he sent it to me. That's right before I went to Vermont. So Vermont, we spent a week there. Basically, it's a piano retreat, but whatever. So I learned it.

That was last summer, right?

That was last summer. So I, uh, we have a half-year reunion concert coming up in January, and I'm planning to play that.

What reunion?

So the Vermont, uh, our Vermont, this program, okay, retreat, we always do a half-year reunion concert in January. And I'm planning to play Conrad's arrangement of "Danny Boy" for the concert. Great.

Wonderful.

And he's really excited about it. And as he was telling me that it's really nice to hear someone else playing his arrangement, and I'm very honored that I can do it.

Poki, thank you for being here today as the guest of the introductory segment of this episode and telling us the memories and personal stories you shared with your mentor, which adds so much anticipation and excitement to the interview with Dr. Conrad.

Looking forward to it.

So before finally inviting Dr. Kunrat, let me briefly cite his bio. Dr. Michael Kunrat's illustrious career as a classical pianist, recording artist, and educator spans continents, captivating audiences worldwide. His musical footprint resonates globally, from enthralling performances with orchestras playing Beethoven's Concerto No. 4 to sharing the stage with the Qingdao Conservatory of Music in China. He has graced esteemed gatherings like the American Liszt Society, the International Viola Congress, and more. Among his several recordings is the album highlighting Michigan composer Albert Fillmore's work, which was a passion project supporting aspiring composers through scholarships. Dr. Kuhn-Rudd boasts over 50 years of enriching students' lives through teaching piano. At the Interlochen Arts Academy, one of the nation's prestigious music institutions, he passionately nurtured countless talents for 46 years until his retirement in 2022. Beyond music, Dr. Kuhnrot finds joy in crafting a model railroad, performing chamber music, and lending his talents to accompany a church choir. His life orchestrates passion, expertise, in a symphony of diverse interests. So before getting started with this special episode, I want to welcome all our first-timers to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song. I'm a classical pianist and educator from New York City. Whether diving deep into a piano career, working professionally in the classical music scene, or simply having a passion for piano tunes, this podcast is your backstage pass to the fascinating piano world. I also want to welcome back and thank you to amazing TPP fans and faithful listeners for tuning in today. Please rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platform because every rating and review will help people find the show. So dear TPP fans and listeners, I can't wait to interview Dr. Michael Kumrat to hear about his remarkable career as a concert pianist, recording artist, and educator. So stick with me till the end of our conversation as it will lead to a more reflective discussion on how we trained classical musicians should keep classical music relevant and thriving in today's rapidly changing world. So here we go, dear friends. Please enjoy the show. You are listening to The Piano Pod, where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry about how they are bringing the piano into the 21st century. We are here with Dr. Michael Kunrod, performing classical pianist, recording artist, educator, arranger of music for the left hand alone. So welcome, Dr. Kunrod, to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song. Thank you for being here today.

I'm honored that you would ask me. Thank you. I'm looking forward to it.

Same here. Now, Pokey Huang, fellow pianist and educator, uh, and my colleague at nonprofit organization The Piano Teachers Congress of New York, connected me to you. I understand you were Pokey's teacher while he was studying at the Interlochen Arts Academy and you are a mentor to him. And he says you changed his life and made him who he is today as an artist and educator.

So nice to hear because so often students might not contact you for years, sometimes decades, sometimes maybe weeks. But to know that I was an influence on his life after so many years, well, maybe what, 12, 15 years when I was teaching him for 3 years, is really gratifying to know. It's just for me, it's the best job I could ever have.

Oh, that's wonderful. I know you've taught at the very prestigious Interlochen Center for the Arts, which is located in Michigan, for 46 years, I believe.

46 years I've taught at the Arts Academy, yes.

Oh my goodness. And then recently retired from being a full-time faculty member there. And of course, Interlochen is one of the prestigious music schools in the nation and internationally renowned as well, where young students' creativity has flourished since its founding in 1928, I believe. And, and then the school boasts a distinguished alumni network of musicians as well as dancers and actors. In the last 3 and a half years of podcasting, I have interviewed several Interlochen graduates actually for The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song. So I want to know what drew you to the institution and what makes it stand out in the realm of arts education. Can you share how you first became involved with Interlochen Center for the Arts.

Well, I did grow up in Missoula, Montana. I had been playing piano since age 4, and this was the early teen years, which is the time most people have this burning craving to play music. That's just fascinating to me, like what causes that at those early teen years. Uh, my father, who was Dean of Liberal Arts and Sciences at the University of Montana, uh, had a dear friend who was Dean at Illinois State University. And this dean recommended Interlaken, that I would study with George Lucktenberg. This was 1967, a few years ago. So I saw a picture of Interlaken National Music Camp at that time it was called. Now it's Interlaken Arts Camp because it has all the arts media, not just music. And so it was recommended I go there. So I spent 1967 summer studying with him. I remember I took theory, composition. I was in the festival choir, which any adults or students could sing in. We did the Verdi Requiem.

Wow.

It was wonderful. And then I practiced 6 or 7 hours. That's what I went to do. And I went and heard concerts. And the unique thing is that it's a camp and it's right there. You just have to walk as far as half a football field to go to concerts, and they're all outdoors. And it's also a social experience. And also they ask you to have sports activities. At that time, they called it forced fun, which wasn't a very good name because it's something I really enjoyed doing. I took tennis lessons, and I never knew that that would be my only job in life. If I had known that, I would have thought more of it other than just smelling a little iron in the water. I would have thought, oh, if I had a premonition, this is going to be my job, teaching. Of course, at that time, I didn't think I was going to be a teacher. I was just trying to play the piano as best as I could. Well, I was a grad student at Peabody Conservatory in Baltimore, and the director of placement, Sidney Forrest, famous clarinetist who was teaching there, contacted me and 4 other students knowing that we were looking for jobs. And I guess I was unknowingly smart because this was in August and academy began in September. Uh, so I sent everything. Not just a cover letter, cover letter, transcripts, recordings, grades, courses, everything. And that turned out to be good because the administration had their hands full. They were on vacation. And so they had me come in and play a concert in 3 days' notice. I played Elliott Carter piano sonata, a couple of etudes, and some Schubert. And it's good that I did some etudes like Moszkowski and Chopin, because Interlochen really promotes the study of technique. So that's how I became a faculty member, a piano faculty member. And years after that, one of the piano faculty members said, because I asked them, how did you hire me? Why did you hire me? Because I never taught anybody. It was between camp and academy. And they said, well, you smiled and you forgot your suitcase. So you must be a good musician.

Introduce us to the Interlochen Center for the Arts. Brief overview, maybe programs. And I know Interlochen Summer Camp is very famous too. And in my, some of All of my students are trying to go there. And then, and so also the, maybe the key milestones, if you know, to shape its legacy and so forth.

Interlochen is, is quite a substantial part of the music culture in the world. Started in 1928, as you mentioned. I did some research on some statistics because they're a little different every year. Turns out that there's 6 orchestras, there's 2 bands and 3 choirs. There's 3,230 campers representing 40 countries, and 6% are international students. At the academy, there's 567 students as of this year, representing 45 states, 27 countries, and 85 international students.

Oh my goodness.

I mean, it's incredible what they have, but it's divided up into juniors, students age 8 to 11, and they're separated between male, female in different parts of campus. Interlaken means between the lakes. So the one side is, is for one gender and the other side for another gender. It's called Pine Side. And then ages 11 to 14, intermediate level. And there's different programs for each of them. Finally, there's high school. When I first started teaching there, we taught every level. Including college. It was the summer camp for the University of Michigan. So it's quite a substantial place. There's 4 different branches to Interlochen. Uh, number 1 is, uh, Interlochen Arts Camp during the summer, which includes an intensive 6 weeks, and that's a separate group of students who are generally more advanced, who are there to have master classes all day and go to concerts in the evening. Not so many kind of social camp experiences.

Right.

Although you can't help it. There's, there's, there's socializing too. It's been very successful, maybe 20 years old now. It's been a piano intensive session for maybe 12 years. And so that's the camp. The academy is the art, you know, like an arts academy, which is high school, 9 through 12. We see students for a longer period of time so we can see more development. The camp, you give them 4 to 8 lessons, uh, but during the year it's just 9 months of lessons and you get to know them because it's much smaller. I mean, 3,200 is different than 500.

Yes.

And then we also have, uh, Mallory Towsley, uh, Center for Arts Leadership that invites adults to come in for the weekend or 4 or 5 days to talk about arts activities, different arts areas, maybe, uh, talking about crafts. And they could be anything. They have their own building and they have their own director that's separate from the, from the school, from the high school. Let's see, we also have Interlochen Public Media, and that provides classical music and a news station throughout the general northern Michigan area. And let's— did I get them all? Yes, 1, 2, 3, 4, which is all under the umbrella of Interlochen Center for the Arts.

Mm-hmm. It's a big institution and one of the most influential art schools in nation. Now, you mentioned that there are substantial numbers of international students. So does the school offer like a boarding school?

It's 90% boarding school. So they can get out of bed and walk across the street and have their lesson or their classes. Uh, we have 1,200 acres, but, uh, during the winter it's only on one side. And it's just very close. During the summer, students have to walk from the other lake over to, to have breakfast, to have the meals on the main campus. I mean, life is harsh, right?

It's—

they don't have to drive 2 hours for a lesson.

I see now. I understand that. Wow. That's—

there are day students. People can come here from China. Sometimes the parents come over here and live, and they can have their children be day students, so it's a little bit less expensive. There's a an extraordinary amount of scholarship available. So the tuition is quite high, like all boarding schools, but there's an endowment for a lot of scholarship. I can't remember the number, whether it's $5 million or $10, $15 million. It's, uh, they don't give somebody free passes to come here. It's good to be able to do, have something that parents can offer. So people don't need to be dissuaded by steep tuition prices. I think the goal for the future is to have free tuition.

That would be amazing. Just attract the true, true genuine talents.

Sometimes we, in the past, we've missed having Eastern European students who are really exceptional, but they can't afford anything. While we were bringing them, but then the school couldn't afford that. So we're hoping to reinstate that.

Oh, that sounds really a dream come true for all the young artists.

We have an incredible president we love, Trey Devi, and he gets to know everybody. He knows people's names and he's out there promoting Interlochen and raising money and he's a fantastic president for us.

So what sets apart from other institutions? What sets Interlochen— maybe you already mentioned all the unique way to provide musical experience to young students, but what else?

Well, there are many really fine art schools out there. I just mentioned the things that we offer, quite extensive, and we've had a history of decades of successful students. I mean, I asked the school, can you give me some of the famous people who have come through here, either the camp or the academy? And it's just incredible. I mean, 2 or 3 pages. Anthony McGill, he's the principal clarinetist in the New York Philharmonic. Aaron Dworkin, founder of Sphinx. David Shiffrin, the clarinetist, famous clarinetist. Elaine DuBois, who's Principal oboe in the Metropolitan Opera. Lorin Maazel, former New York Philharmonic conductor. He was here as a 10-year-old.

Oh my goodness.

And we have 50 presidential scholars. Evidently there's 13% of the orchestra musicians are graduates of Interlochen. There are 32 Tony Awards, 26 Emmy Awards, 3 Oscars, and 4 Pulitzer Prizes.

Wow.

But you know what really impresses me is not so much these famous people who've been so successful, but what about the people who have moderate talent, who weren't that advanced here, but then later on after college and grad school, if they go that route, they're very successful. Like Jewel, say Nora Jones. I mean, they've been here, but they've made a great name for themselves. And I've had students who are very talented but not really advanced, and You really work with them. It's a little harder to develop them, their technique, things they really need, some rudimentary skills. Extremely talented students are fairly easy to teach unless they have a chip on their shoulders and they don't accept what you have to say, but that doesn't happen very often. But what's rewarding for me is to see a moderately talented student work really hard and have a mission to succeed and to see them excel and be happy and satisfied and they've fulfill their dreams, whatever it may be, is very gratifying.

Can you share some of the most favorite or memorable or rewarding moments as an educator there you've experienced while teaching?

I'd be happy to. I've been thinking about this. First, I think, is letters and messages from former students throughout several years after they graduate, sometimes decades after they graduate, and develop this really close relationship and you realize what you have done for them. That's very, very important for me, rewarding experiences. Also, there was a year in which we had enough really advanced students to play all the 32 Beethoven sonatas, and the last 3 were played by Richard Good, who came— ironically, he happened to be on the schedule, unbeknownst to us. Let's see, my colleague did the Hammerklavier, I did Opus 101 and the students filled in the rest.

Wow.

Not that the others are easier. And we didn't do them on one concert or 7 concerts. When a student was ready to perform one of the sonatas, they were on a student recital. And then I had a big old chart and I just marked it down. So by the end of the year, we had all these 32 sonatas. Not only that, but we had some bagatelles. We had Rage Over the Lost Penny. The difficult walkways.

Yes, yes, yes.

And that's quite a milestone to be able to achieve that. And we could probably do that in other years, but we only did it the one year. What meant a lot to me was my retirement honoring. I spent 46 years and they had me play a piece for the assembly, which is very tearful. It was Danny Boy, actually, a piece that I arranged for the left hand alone. After my injury. I also, I had a piano festival that I organized for 12 years in which I brought teachers from all of Michigan and Ohio and Illinois to listen to guest artists. And we had basically 2 or 3 artists. One was for advanced students. The other is for beginners or elementary, like Amandavik Lethgoe, very famous composer of method books. She came, had people talk about accompanying for dance. I mean, it was a very successful festival, but after 12 years, the school— well, actually, I built a lot of money for it, but we couldn't quite pay for everything. So I think the school couldn't do the rest for that. But that was very successful. One thing I was really happy about is that one of my dear students built thousands and thousands of dollars for a guest artist budget. This happened upon my retirement as an honor. This person chose to be anonymous, so I can't say the name. I guess I got to say her name. That was really wonderful. And I told my colleagues, it's nice to know that my retirement helped the school. And I don't think because they're glad to get rid of me, because this wouldn't have happened had I not retired. So I was really grateful for that. And this person was here in the early years, graduated in 1977. And so you never know what impact you make on people, because I had never heard from her for decades. Then all of a sudden we're close and we talk and we visit. It's a wonderful, honorable thing that she had done that. Remember when she graduated, she was here only one year. She's from an Asian country and she had a really rough life because Chiang Kai-shek wouldn't let intelligentsia do anything. They were actually interned and killed. And her father actually made through. Made it through. And then, uh, when she heard that I played Danny Boy as an encore for that left-hand concerto, she was in tears because her father, at age 80, after surviving that ordeal, sang Danny Boy. Because every time somebody would leave the internment and never to be seen again, the survivors would sing songs, and one was Danny Boy. Very— what she had gone through and Uh, yeah. The last thing I want to say is very important to me is that my dear student, Carrie Huber, replaced me and I was not on the team to hire her, but everybody agreed that she's one of the best people to invite. And so she, she's here. She has been vocal about carrying on my lineage and wonderful person, first-rate pianist. And wonderful teacher. She's going to have a long lineage here. So I was honored by having a former student fill my position.

So she was your student before?

Yeah, from 2005 and 2006. She plays all music really beautifully well, but her passion right now is to promote women composers, particularly in the 21st century, but also 20th and 19th centuries.

One of these days I would like to reach out to her. Maybe I can interview her on my show.

I hope you do.

Yes. You have 40+ years of teaching piano, so we need to pick your brain when it comes to teaching. So we would like to know your philosophy and methods of teaching. What teaching techniques do you find most effective in helping students develop technical skills? So you mentioned about technique.

So, okay. Yeah, I was thinking, I counted up, I have been teaching for 54 years, 46 here. And so I, I taught beginners, I taught elementary, I taught class piano. I, uh, the last 20 years I was teaching majors and advanced students. And so my philosophy is everybody deserves good teaching, whether it's a beginner or it's extremely advanced. It's not like I teach the talent so much. I teach the person and the talent together. I always say the person is just as important as the talent. I'll teach anybody who wants to work hard, has a mission. And a person needs to realize that failures can be very helpful unless you quit. You have to pick yourself up and keep going and you'll be successful. Discouragement is always followed by some kind of encouragement. That happens in my life. If something is, bothers me or discouraging, I just know that the next day or so something really helpful is going to happen to me. I don't know what it is, but it's really uncanny how that happens. You call answers to prayer, you could have it yin and yang, you can talk whatever you want, it's just, it happens. So you asked me about philosophies, about teaching. The most important thing is have a good attitude and positive attitude to help students not be so self-critical because they come to Interlochen and they see more advanced students and they think they're no good, or they go to competition and they don't win, they think they're no good. You just have to channel their focus into something positive, that they have something to say. And I always encourage trying to play special moments. My old teachers always said, if you can have a few special moments I mean really transcending moments in a performance, you should feel lucky. It's almost too much to ask every single turn of the phrase to just put chills up your spine. It would be nice. Well, it's a little bit like if you try to play something really special every single time, it's maybe like nothing special. If everything tries to be special, I mean, you try to play beautifully, of course, but if you— there's certain places that are really special harmonically or motivically or architecturally. And if you try to do those big high points everywhere, then nothing is important. Rachmaninoff was quoted as saying, where's the high point? Where's the point? What are you going towards? So if everything is a high point, then nothing's a high point. Regarding the teaching of— I believe strongly in technique, study of technique, not so separate from music, but exercises. I call it applied technique. Actually, that's my teacher's term, applied technique. So if you're gonna do an exercise, there must be a purpose for it. For example, if you're doing some rotation exercises, then you're, it's gonna, you study this in order to get the technique involved. Hanon, I think, is the best book ever for studying technique. It's not the only one but I like it very much because it fuses the fingers with the wrist so I'm not a believer in playing Hanon— Like usually you hear kind of mechanical and it might help to strengthen individual fingers but it's not musical. In music we find things in groups; there are groups of 3s, 6s, 4s or 8s and I have students practicing scales yaddle daddle diddle little diddle little diddle little diddle little diddle in fours And also yet a little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little. So there's this kind of pulsation. I've seen people practice scales like machine guns. And to me, that's not the end result. So I like to infuse musical insights into the exercises. Let's see. Can you see that? Yeah, it's— if you just do the It's just tight sounding. It's not good. I took students to Ann Arbor to hear Murray Pariah do a recital. And afterwards we went backstage to say we loved his playing. And you know what we saw on the piano was the Hanon book.

No way!

And I thought, if he still does that, why shouldn't we? Really?

Good old Hanon.

Yeah, yeah.

That's surprising to hear. Sorry. Yes.

I do it hands alone. Because if you're going to be doing— it's an up and over, up and over. So it's groups of 8. Going down, it's down, up, down, up. Oval motions. Oval. Not up and down. It's wonderful to do it hands alone because, well, number one, you can focus on one hand instead of both. You've got to be a little sloppy to do things both hands together. So I really believe in Hanon as it applies to musical ideas. Stroke, you know, I really believe in this, the stroking, the downward motion, because the different attacks make different sounds. Well, for example, the Schubert Impromptu. You know, every finger has to have some kind of pressure, different pressure, because voicing is everything practically in piano. And so let's see this. The Brahms ballade. I was really impressed with Michelangeli, one of my favorite pianists. He kind of goes— he kind of drops the whole arm on. And I know a lot of people might not want to do that because you can do it by staying on the key. If you phrase it, it doesn't come out. Did you hear that?

Mm-hmm.

Beautifully, right? With a good tone. A student might practice just going— and of course, this is balanced by the other part of the hand going It makes it more like a singer with an accompaniment. I mean, there's so many different ways.

I—

we don't have time for me to tell you everything I do with technique. I also require them to know their cadences. I mean, sometimes people come from abroad and they play that cadence, which is 2-6-5 tonic. I want them to know that because it's in music everywhere.. And usually it doesn't mean anything. They just do it because they do it. I have them do that in all the keys. They need to know in all the keys and also in minor. 4 kind of cadences. I asked for the subdominant cadence. I mean, it's always tonic 6/4, dominant, and tonic. But whether you play as this or you play Neapolitan, Mm-hmm. I want them to know all those cadences in major and minor keys. And then, of course, point them out in the music where they're there. Because even though we hear Neapolitan all the time, even in Bach, it just still sends me. It's so wonderful. So substitution chord for this, of course. There's certain things that are extremely musical on their own. And these colorful chords are one thing. Also, the leading tone is musically leads up. The fourth degree of scale musically goes down. You can't just stop there. I mean, students need to know that. Of course, the Mozart story gets up in the morning because Leopold says, Mozart runs down the steps. He has to finish it. It has that compelling tension.

"How do you balance the emphasis on technical proficiency with the development of musical expression and interpretation?" So meaning, is playing fast everything?

Well, I think probably every teacher advocates practicing slowly, and I practiced slowly, but I didn't practice slowly. I mean, really slow, so you can focus on memories. If you do it from memory, Do it from memory, slow practice. It helps musically where you're going and helps technically too, to know what the hand is doing. Can't do that so much if you're playing a string instrument, you know, you're dictated by the speed of the bow, but piano we can do that. Particularly because you play a note and it starts to decay. But I always think of thinking it's between the notes. The music is in between the notes instead of Absolutely. So I have a technique which I, I like. It's, uh, to get subdivisions in your fingers. For example, the C minor Prelude, Chopin. So I did this. And you got to think of that when you play without those repeating notes. So you can feel the tension between the notes. I told you on the phone about the shmurg animal.

Yes.

Isn't my invention. It's, uh, I always remember that because it's, it's a first letter of different aspects of music, different parameters. And I think it's helpful to separate them. So it stands for SMERG, sound, practice the quality of sound. So many high school students, not just boys, girls can bang. They come in, they're so excited about playing, you know, it's so ugly. Even with Bartók and Prokofiev, good to have a rich sound. My colleague from the Embassy in Budapest said, you know, we play with rich soundbar toc. We don't bang it so much. I suppose sometimes in Beethoven he wants something to be really forceful. And generally speaking, we gotta try to get the banging out of the students. Like, it takes a little while, but my colleague and I achieved that. Okay, and then schmirk. H? What do you think that stands for?

Harmony?

Yeah, I think it's important for students to understand the harmony from the composer's point of view. And the composer, I like to think, I mean, for traditional music, thinks of this harmonic progression going to— where are we going? There's a modulation that goes to here, and then you put the clothes, the flesh and blood on it. And usually students do the other way around, learn things note by note, and it doesn't make sense of the overall feel, overall direction. R stands for rhythm. To make sure you get accurate rhythm, use the metronome. It's extreme. I think I have decent rhythm, but I can't trust myself. I have to check it out with metronome, which includes subdivision of the beats too. If it's a quarter note, you do it eighth notes, sometimes sixteenth notes, because my rhythm isn't perfect by any means. And I am If I record myself, I'll say, Michael, you're not playing in time. What are you doing? Not that you stay in time. Good composers want you to have rubato and bend things, but you always have to come back to that tempo. It's a very good idea to check ourselves, check your tempo in the beginning of the piece, the development, the coda, difficult passage to see if it's the same as the beginning, because often it's erratic. And then M stands for melody, of course. Play the melody by itself. It's amazing how few students can play the melody by itself because they're so used to doing everything with it.

Yes.

Um, and then G stands for growth. It's another name for architecture or musical structure, not just sonata form, but the length of the phrases. Too often we'll have phrases of 5, 4, 5. Brahms and the Variations on An original theme is 5 plus 5 is 10. The whole period is 10 measures long.

So that's the schmarg? Schmurg? Is that how you call it?

Yeah, I just schmurg. Schmurg.

So S-H-M-R-G? That's the order? Right.

That's right. Sound is the most important. If you have an ugly sound, who wants to listen to anything else?

Absolutely. Another question would be, how do you approach performance anxiety and help students develop confidence on stage? That's part of like, it's a big portion of being a musician, right? Dealing with that.

Yeah. I think it's very important to perform a lot because you perform once for the class and it's a disaster. It's not the end of the world. Just come back and pick yourself up and keep doing it until you're successful. It's just a matter of perseverance or a colleague of mine said stick-to-itiveness. Keep at it. You can't expect to play super, super well just right away. It's a process, just like life is a process. Record yourself. When I was making one of these 5 recordings, I recorded like the music at least 12 times because I didn't want to waste a recording engineer's time by me saying, oh, I didn't play fast enough or slow enough. So I resolve those issues through recordings. And then when I go into the recording session, it's, I go through it a few times and I take the best. Sometimes once is enough. Play for your colleagues, play for students, play for the dog, play for the cat, play for your parents, anything that might make you a little uneasy or nervous so you kind of get used to it. Good musicians almost always get nervous to some degree. Horowitz was a basket case. They had to push him out on stage. Of course, he didn't look nervous, Know your music. I mean, really well know your music. That, I think that's probably the best to avoid too much anxiety, to know your music well enough. Let's see if I can do something for you. Do you know what that piece is? It's Opus 109.

109.

Or the last note, I'm pushing— some people call it ghosting. I, I feel the notes, I feel it, but I don't play it in order in the pads of the fingers. And another way of doing it is you don't even feel the pads, you just sense which finger you're going to play but don't really put any pressure at all. And it does 3 things. Number 1, it secures your memory. Number 2, it develops sensitivity. 'Cause it's much easier to go, you know, it's really hard to play. And develops your sense of where you're going. And also, did I say memory? Yeah, the memory. Where you're going and the tone. So I'm listening for— I'm hearing everyone else knows G sharp, B, E changing to A major, but the E stays the same. Can you hear that?

Mm-hmm.

Okay, and I'm also changing the pedal very slowly. So it's an overlapping pedal. And there's so many ways of listening extremely slowly. Even it's really slowly with a good tone. That's a piece, that Brahms Sonata, to bang.

Yes, yes, it's really fun to do that first movement. Yes. But yes, now I am more convinced to tell my students to practice slow because you said so too, you know, because my students don't believe me. They think that the practicing fast will get them somewhere, but I tell them to do the opposite. But it's very hard to convince. And then, you know, I'm guilty. I was like that when I was a teenager too.

So probably me too. My favorite piece is a— I love it. What kid is going to go—

Nobody.

They're kids. They're going fast. But it's worth trying to convince them. In order to keep a kid's attention, like when I taught in a camp in Kentucky, Maple Mount Music Festival, I had this room that had a 9-foot Steinway. It wasn't that great, but it was the Steinway Grand. And it was in the Madonna room. It was on a Catholic Ursuline Order area. And so pictures of Madonna everywhere. And so I said, everybody get underneath the piano. Have you ever listened to music underneath the piano? It's like being in a speaker in the box. It just envelops your sound. It's an incredible experience. My daughter did that when she was a kid and I would be practicing.

Really?

Oh. Practice softly, otherwise you break their ears.

I need to do that with my students. That's a Good idea. Hey there, TPP family! The Piano Pod is now into our 4th season, and it's all thanks to you. Since 2020, you've been with my journey with the TPP, exploring this burning question: how do we make classical music resonate with today's audience in fresh and captivating ways? 4 years in, and the journey has been nothing short of magical. The Piano Pod isn't just a podcast; It's a movement, a space where pianists, composers, and educators brainstorm, debate, and reimagine classical music's place in our fast-paced world. We're together on a mission to ensure classical music doesn't just survive but thrives in our modern age. But here's the thing: to keep bringing you these insightful biweekly episodes, I need your help. Every bit of support goes into The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song, from hosting to high-quality recording tech, and the countless hours behind the scenes. So, do you want to be part of this journey? Click the PayPal link in the show notes or head to thepianopod.com to donate, and as a token of appreciation, I will personally mail you The Piano Pod's snazzy logo sticker. So, hit the subscribe button, spread the word, and let's continue our mission and journey as classical musicians. Now let's continue with the show. You have such love and passion for teaching. I can really sense that passion through this screen. When did you know that teaching would be your life's work?

That's difficult to say. I was teaching in college for money. I mean, it's a good source of income. And then I went to Baltimore and, no, I'm sorry, University of Montana. And I taught there for 4 years. And at Peabody, I was hired to teach in the preparatory department. And I suppose that's when I really enjoyed getting to know the students and helping them. I remember this one older woman had a lesson and she showed up, but there was a huge rain downpour. Baltimore is kind of on a hill and there was water 10 inches deep. And I was going to the lesson and I slipped and I lost music and went down the drain. No, I got there, I caught it beforehand, but I showed up for a lesson like a drowned rat. And she was so nice. She said, well, that's okay. We'll do it another time. I loved her for that. By the time I got to Interlochen, I was really dedicated to helping students. As I said, I found out that you have to get to know the students to help them musically. If there's something bothering them, they're really upset, they're crying, you just can't start saying, do your Hanon. You have to talk with them and be willing to do that. I was lucky to teach in high school because it's not like college. Teacher comes in, you teach the lesson, you don't see them till the next week. That doesn't happen all the time, but frequently it does at the college. In high school, we're mentors, we're surrogate parents. Piano building is one building area and students practice there. We're walking down the hallway, we hear somebody play a wrong rhythm or note, we just pop in and fix it immediately. We— I took them swimming for a couple years on Wednesday evenings, uh, take them skiing, have them over for dinner. A couple times a semester we'd have Christmas parties, we have graduation parties. As a matter of fact, that's how I lost my finger, was I took them on a hike and I went over a barbed wire fence and didn't realize it was a lot further on the other side down.

Oh.

So we, uh, they helped me back to the house. It mangled and the nerves were severed. And so, uh, very memorable. Outing.

Well, I know we're gonna discuss more, much deeper into that topic later. Uh, I know, uh, it happened a couple years ago, right?

2015.

15. Okay. Yes. So obviously that is a life-changing moment for you, but, um, we'll, we'll discuss that in a little bit later. What are the most important lessons you've taught your students?

Well, my watchword for everybody, for faculty, colleagues, students, is balance. It's important to have a balance in your life. Uh, it's so easy to be narcissistic and just be totally involved with what you're doing, practice 6 hours a day and thinking about the next practice, even if a teacher If you're teaching and you're just thinking about when your next practice session is going to be, your focus isn't on the student, and that's no good. I teach my students to be supportive of one another instead of just always me, me, me. And, you know, it's just natural for you to be concerned around your own development and career, but along the way, it's important to be aware of other people. Support one another. I have a chart and I require the students to attend 15 recitals per semester. That's not a lot, but it's to prove a point that it's important to support one another, because normally they wouldn't do it except for their few friends. I said, go to concerts you don't even know them, go to a saxophone recital, anything to get 15 concerts so you listen to music. And so it's an honor system. When they go to a concert, they check it off on the board. So I think it's important to support one another. Let's see. Oh, one thing I've taught is, I got this from a very dear friend and colleague who was 80 years old from China, Benjamin Yu. And he said, you know, if the students can get 85 or 90% of it right, they should feel satisfied. When you set yourself up for perfection, it's like for failure because You just can't play perfectly, especially if you're trying to be creative and take chances. Perfection is not the end result. So if you can get excellence, 85 to 90%, you're doing well. Special moments. I try to say if this particular turn of phrase or this harmony really sends you in some way, you can impart that to your audience. It's great. The bottom line is I think performance is human The goal is to have human interaction, meet, reach somebody. And they come backstage and they're in tears. I feel I really, they really loved what I was doing. And I pouring out my heart for somebody, they felt it.

Well, your students are so fortunate to have you as a mentor and teacher. And Poki is one of them. And he always tells me about the experience that he had with you. And that's a wrap for the first part of this engaging episode on The Piano Pod with classical pianist, recording artist, and educator Dr. Michael Kuhnradt. If you have been enjoying our episodes, please rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. You can also watch this episode on The Piano Pod's YouTube channel. Please find us on social media to get the latest piano news via Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. All the links are in the description. Tune in next Tuesday, January 16th, at 8 PM for the rest of the interview with Dr. Michael Kunrath.