S2 E4 Claire Lim--Music Technologist, Electronic Musician, Educator & Activist

Hello and welcome back to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Claire Marie Lim. I am Eric Hunter.

I'm Yukimi Song.

I'm Clara Jung.

Today our guest is Claire Marie Lim, otherwise known as DALL·TRICK, a professor in Berkeley's Electronic Production and Design Department. She specializes in instruction for live electronic performance, production, and programming, and is an advocate of women and Asian representation in music technology. She is an Ableton Certified Trainer, Bitwig Certified Trainer, and Apple Certified Pro. In music education and arts activism, Claire collaborates with the Girls Rock campaign, Beats by Girls, and the Queens Public Library Network, and has received support from the New York City Department of Cultural Affairs and Queens Council on the Arts. She develops curriculum for various ages and experience levels, having consulted for the International Center of Photography, Queens College, Coursera, and the Berklee Network. Claire also independently runs the Doll Troop, a mentorship experience where K through 12 girls can shadow her in electronic songwriting sessions and live shows. Hi, Claire. Thanks for joining us today.

Hi, thanks for having me. Hi, Claire.

Welcome.

Excited to be here. Thank you.

Yes, we are so excited to have you. We interview a lot of classical pianists for this show. We're all classical pianists, the three of us. But we're also very interested in music technology and the future of music. And when we saw what you were doing on YouTube, we were just blown away. We're like, ah, we have to have her on the show. So we're very, very excited. Now you describe yourself as a music technologist, right?

Yes, that's right.

Yeah, I love that term. Can you explain what you mean by that exactly?

Yeah, totally. And I think before I start, I'll also kind of jump in, like the classical music is still very much in me too, because I'm a classically trained pianist too. So it was very weird. I think my parents didn't really expect that like, it's like, oh, let her go get her diploma and whatever, and then turn into this electronic music weirdo. Sorry, Mom and Dad. But anyway, yeah, so music technology, I think it's a term that I like using a lot, and a lot of my colleagues who also call themselves music technologists use as well, mainly because oftentimes when you're in the field of music tech, you're not just in, say, only production. There's a little bit of overlap with, say, live performance, or in my case, for example, or sometimes there's a little bit of overlap in programming and sound design. So I think using the term music technology kind of encompasses that because that's actually pretty much what I do all the time. Sometimes my clients who I work with will come to me through the lens of wanting to look for a producer to help them with their music, so they might be, say, a songwriter or composer, and it's like, "Hey Claire, can you help me make this, put it into some kind of digital form, like in a software computer program?" And then other clients that I work with will be like, "Hey, I'm doing a live performance. Can you help me put together a live show or put together my stage setup?" So it really kind of runs the gamut. It's very much, you know, kind of being like a jack of all trades, I guess, and having to, you know, go between different sorts of things. But ultimately I love doing all of it. So that's why I like it.

Yeah, that's amazing. I know you wear so many hats. I mean, just going through the materials on your website, you're like, "Oh my gosh, she's performing and she's producing and she's educating." activism as well, right? And technology running through it. It's amazing. But it's so interesting to me that you grew up with classical training and then found your way into technology. I've got a bit of that myself. So can you tell us what drew you to music technology originally?

Yeah, totally. I'm so glad to hear that, Eric. I think like for me, it was very, very much an accident. I, up until college, I just, for a little bit of background also, I went to a school where you had different options for majoring in different parts of music. So sometimes a couple of people would major specifically in electronic production, or people would do engineering, or people would do commercial writing. And that was initially what I kind of wanted to do. So when I first got to the college that I attended, my mind was really more set on being just a writer or a composer, because I didn't know about the possibilities of a lot of the electronic music stuff. But it just so happened that a lot of my friends who I met in my very first semester at college I got very close to them and a lot of them were into electronic music stuff. And at that time still I was a little bit of a purist. So, you know, people would bring up like electronic music and you kind of think like one of two things, either the, you know, electroacoustic tradition kind of in classical stuff, or you think of like a doom doom doom doom, which is kind of like— Yeah, I know, I joke with my students now that that's all that electronic music is. I'm partially being facetious, but it kind of is also. So I thought of that, and it was really a lot of my own prejudice that was preventing me from being open to a lot of the creative possibilities. But I started going to a lot of these live shows, and for me, coming from the lens of— or the background, rather— of being a performer, because I used to do lots of competitions and lots of onstage stuff as a pianist and a flute player too, right? So it's like, stage performance experience. Coming into that sphere and watching all of these live performances, I was totally blown away. So I went to a concert once by a group called Disclosure, and it was actually in New York. It was at Madison Square Garden, and I saw them there, and that was the night that very much changed my life because they do a completely live electronic setup. So the brothers are also actually a little bit of classical and jazz trained. One of them plays the drums, the other plays the bass, and but they do this really cool live electronic setup. And I was totally mesmerized and I said, okay, if I do get into electronic music at all, it's probably gonna be through the vein of performance. And that's what happened. So that was down the rabbit hole from there.

Yeah. All right. Well, I think that's a great segue to your current project, which is Dolltrick, right? Can you tell us what is Dolltrick and what do you do as Dolltrick?

Totally. Dolltrick is interesting because she's kind of like a First of all, I refer to her a lot in third person, mainly because when I first started doing electronic music, I personally felt very scared about it for a number of reasons. Mostly because I, first of all, really didn't know what I was doing at the time, so it's just like, what is going on? Second of all, because I didn't really have the courage to do a lot of the more performative things that I saw either the peers or the idols that I had— not idols, but the inspirations that I had doing. And it's partially because they were mostly white men. It was a very weird situation. It's like you look around and there's no one who looks like the same as you until later on in my story, which is what I'll get to. But yeah, so I created Dolltrick in college when I was still in college after I took a turntable class. Actually, I took a class on turntablism and the first assignment was to come up with a DJ name and it stuck. I didn't think it would stick, but I just thought of it and it stuck and ended up becoming my artist project name. So I stuck with that name, and it's kind of my avenue of having some kind of platform to just really be free with music and a little bit of an unfiltered type of sense. I feel like if I went into the music creation process as Claire, it would come out very different, but DALLTRA gives me a little bit of that freedom. And it's because of that that I usually kind of have her very separate. I like to think of her as like maybe like 10 or even 20 years younger than me in terms of the freedom that she has to do stuff. She's very much just a lot more liberal in a lot of the choices that she makes. And I think of The Daltrey Project as really being— yeah, it's totally separate from what people will hire me for. My clients won't necessarily be like, "I'm hiring Daltrey." Sometimes they are, but let's say they're looking for an engineer on their tour or something. They're not hiring Daltrey, they're hiring Claire. Or if they're looking for lessons, they're looking for lessons from Claire and not Zaltric. So that's a little bit of her on the side.

Yeah. That is so interesting to me. I think that's like a really ingenious solution to a problem that I frequently run into, which is like how to get started and get over my own creative anxieties. Do you have other kind of personas or do you like compartmentalize differently for all the other different projects that you do?

Yeah, that's a great question. I do actually have one other persona. It hasn't been active for a while, but I used to do a lot of live modular synthesizer jams, and my artist name for that would be Cable Wrapper, which is funny because sometimes there would be like spoken word stuff also. But yeah, there's that. Mainly Doll Trick is the main one, I think. Like sometimes even when I do a lot of performance stuff, and my students and also my audience who have seen me perform live will notice this too, but I'll do a little bit of like a switch out sometimes. So I'll be like, hey, this is Claire. And then I'll go back into be like, hey, this is Daltric right now doing the performance stuff. So it's a lot of that. It's a little bit like a split personality thing, but it's not that crazy yet, I hope.

Yeah. Well, you know, I think a lot of performers, I hesitate to say all performers, but a lot of performers certainly have a certain separation between their public life and their private life. Right. Yeah. You know what they put on performance versus what they create on their own.

When you do the tour, are you doing as Doll Trick and by yourself, or do you have a team of group of musicians to go along with?

Yeah, that's a great question, Yukimi. So what usually happens for my case, it kind of depends. If I am touring as Doll Trick, then I usually go on my own. I've done it enough at this stage that I can pack everything into a suitcase and I just like go. Go around. But that said though, most of the time if I'm getting hired to work with other people, like if I'm on their teams, then yeah, that is with a team of people. So I'll be like one out of, I don't know, a crew of like 50 or something people on like a bus, or depending on the size of the tour, sometimes it's smaller too. So it really depends on the situation. I've done both before.

Wow.

And I've seen your YouTube clips and also I've listened to some of your original songs on, you know, music streaming services. By the way, one of your songs is on our fall playlist on Spotify, so that our viewers and listeners can really enjoy your song. Anyway, so I've seen some cover songs, like, you know, you are doing covers, but also you have your original. So when you're touring? Do you do both, or are they all original— maybe not songs, but music?

Yeah, that's a great question. Sometimes I try to do a mix of both, mainly because also for myself, like, I love doing covers. I think it's so fun. And also because this is like— it partially is because of this, but like sometimes I like doing covers that not just are for my main audience, which are mainly around, you know, a certain age range, but to to like appeal to other folks too. Like sometimes when I do a Fleetwood Mac song, for example, my parents get very excited. I love Fleetwood Mac, so— Me too. Yeah, so I love doing like Fleetwood Mac stuff, and I'll send them like funny clips of like, "Hey, wanna hear your favorite rock song in an electronic fashion?" My parents will like laugh a little bit, which is fun. So sometimes it's a little for them. Sometimes a little bit of jazz as well, 'cause my grandparents, my grandfather especially, He's a big fan of Sinatra and stuff like that, so I used to do some weird flips that would make him laugh as well. So there's a little bit of that too. I mean, I grew up listening to a lot of bands, older stuff that I think a lot of my students right now wouldn't know also, so in that regard, sometimes I'll do stuff that's really popular with them, whatever is on the Billboard charts now or whatever they might like. So there's always a mix of things. I love covers.

Yeah, but with your, you know, electric music background, it's gonna sound much different.

Yeah, totally. Yeah, I think that's also something that I like to really think about as one of the powers of doing electronic music stuff, just because a lot of the time when we think of covers, or when a lot of people think of covers, sometimes they think of just, you know, a person sitting with their guitar and like singing into a mic. It's like an acoustic version or something. So that's why sometimes a lot of people will call it, you know, a remix instead, although, you know, technically if it's a remix, sometimes there's original material from the song, so it's still a cover that I'm doing. It's just like an electronic version of a cover. But yeah, lots of cool opportunities with sounds.

Yeah, and you know, while I was watching YouTube, one of your videos, and you were playing a flute And with the keyboard and even a keyboard that I have never seen before. I'm sorry, I'm really, really, um, good old-fashioned classical pianist, so I'm very boring in that way. I only know black and white keys or 88 keys. That's all I know. Anyway, so what does it take to be you? I'm very curious because, because, you know, I have see students of so much potential, and I want to give them as much as I can, you know. And I'm very curious, I mean, not only you have this— it sounds like you've done, you know, traditional music lessons, but also you have the knowledge of technology, the computer software, too, because you are also a DJ, right?

Right, yeah.

So I am very curious what it takes to be Miss Claire Lim. Tell us.

Yeah, I think to be honest, Yukimi, I think it's just a lot of nowadays, especially since you mentioned your students, and I tell this to my students too, it's about taking advantage of whatever resources you have, right? And I think they're in a very different position from us because even like, I know I look very young, but like, I didn't grow up like with a— I'm not from the generation that grew up with like smartphones, right? But now they do. And even for a lot of them, like, as when they were like 5-year-olds using an iPad or something, on that iPad you can put a lot of stuff. You can put things like music software, you can put little things like music games that a lot of like the younger students I work with, like K through 12, they use a lot too. And that develops a lot of their musical sense as well. So oftentimes for a lot of the students that I work with who are interested, or even just people in general who are interested in getting into music technology, I often joke— it's not a joke, but it's very serious— like the biggest asset that you have is your phone. Just because you can put so many things there. Like even off the top of my head, a really good one to get started with is if you have an iPhone, the GarageBand app that's native to the iPhone lets you do so many things. And the cool part about it is that you can save your projects also, and you can send them to yourself so that then you can use it on your computer. So there's a lot of stuff that goes on in between That, and that's often a really important step I think that a lot of people take on too, and especially for the folks who are coming from a more classical background, like even myself, thinking back to when I first got into this, the best part about having a little bit of a piano background is that most types of music technology softwares nowadays have a piano interface. So it's kind of like you already know the language. The only main thing that might be different is when you press a key, you won't hear a piano sound, but you'll hear like a bass sound, or you'll hear like a synthesizer sound, and that also takes, you know, a little time to wrap your head around because it does get surprising. It's like, wait, this should be a— this should sound like a piano, but it doesn't, so you have to kind of like adjust your head a little bit around that too, but that's one of the benefits of having a little bit of keyboard background too, so that's actually why I often encourage people, like even if you don't see yourself as like a full-out concert pianist, getting a bit of a keyboard background if you're interested in production or interested in electronic music is like really, really good. So do that.

Thank you for saying that. I mean, you're saving our jobs as a piano teacher.

No, I'm so serious, Yukimi, and I mean that really seriously too, just because I think a lot of the strongest folks that I've worked with, like be it artists or students or even just like my own mentors too, right? They have had a really wide range of knowledge, not just in the Western sphere as well with classical music theory, but even just going beyond into Indian Hindustani music or Carnatic music or different parts of Chinese music, different regions of China, being able to be aware of the different music styles. And Western classical music being a good foundation for understanding harmonic concepts, I think that's one of its main strengths. As a system. So big advocate of like learning something as a secondary instrument.

Wow, thank you. That's, that's great to know. Now, so I know I'm asking too much, so, but this would be the last one. Now, so as you're growing up, who or what was the influence like? Um, was it your music teacher or maybe family members who were in the industry or maybe you were interested in gaming or computer classes at school. I'm very curious.

Yeah, the— as far as the, the gaming goes, because a lot of people— for an interesting, like, anecdote is that a lot of the folks that I meet think, like, I play, like, a lot of video games and, and, and something, but I don't. I grew up with, like, zero video games. Mom and Dad were like, no. Um, I did watch a lot of TV though. Um, so, um, in terms of music exposure, I would really say it came from my grandparents, I think, on both sides of the family. My parents themselves, they aren't super into music at all, or really no one in my family is a professional musician, actually. There's that. And I guess coming from my background, for a bit more context, I grew up in Singapore, but half of my family, my dad's side, is actually from the Netherlands, so it's a little bit odd. But yeah, even on both sides of the family, no one was very much into like, "You should do this as a living," because the idea was like, it's not a living going into it. And also like, I'm the only child, so it was a lot of like pressure and the only grandchild for my mom's side, which is a little crazy also. So there's a lot of kind of like, "Music is cool, we'll let you be exposed to a lot of it to be cultured," whatever that might mean. And then you can do whatever you want that's not music. So that was the main line of thinking, but I grew up listening to a lot of different ranges, types of sound. So my dad's side would do a lot of the classical stuff, and actually my oma, my grandma, my paternal grandma, she bought me my first piano, which I still have now.

I have so many similar stories.

Yeah, totally. And it's great. It was like, I still remember, it was like a mini 1.5-meter-tall kawaii piano. I still have it at home. So she bought that, and she was really amazing as a pianist. She never really had any formal training, so she would only play by ear, but she was brilliant. So she got me that, and then I got started with piano lessons, I think when I was like 5 or 6, around there. Got started on flute later, I think when I was 10 or 11. I think when I was 11. And then On top of that though, listening to a lot of the stuff that my parents like, even just on the radio, we would listen to a lot of older stuff. I grew up on The Beatles, Eagles, Fleetwood Mac. What else would they listen to? A lot of Chicago. These '80s and '70s types of things, but I loved it. I loved all of it, would absorb it in. And then my grandparents on my mom's side will listen to a lot of the crooners like Sinatra Um, "Engelbert Humperdinck," which is Louis Armstrong, which was really fun. Um, and yeah, so kind of growing up into up until like college, that was pretty much most of the music I would listen to. Maybe a little bit of like Billboard stuff here and there, uh, but yeah, that was mainly it. And the hope was that I would just come to enjoy music and appreciate art and hopefully not go into it as a career.

So when did you come here to America from Singapore? And I assume if you're Singaporean, you have some Chinese influence as well.

Yeah, totally. That's a great question, Clara. So I came here like around when I was about like 19 or 20. So it's a good number of years at this point, but I came here specifically for college because I wanted to do college and I ended up going to a college in Boston called Berklee College of Music. And that's where everything happened. But yeah, so I came here That, prior to that, interestingly enough, most of my influences at the time were actually from classical music or random pop stuff. But that said though, I did grow up with a couple of Chinese songs and stuff that my grandma would sing from time to time. I don't know if anyone knows the song "Moon Represents My Heart." My grandma used to sing that all the time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You were like, "Back I was a single, right?" Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool, there we go.

Very fun. The only song I still remember.

Yeah, totally. So my grandma would sing that all the time. Yeah, so she was saying that all the time, and that was like one of my— probably like my only like Teresa Teng songs that I still remember. So there was a little bit of that, but actually speaking of like different influences, one thing that I did listen to a lot of growing up— or not so much growing up, but really as a teenager— was a lot of Korean pop, and that kind of stuck with me through up until now. Like, I still listen to a lot of Korean pop as well. Mainly because at the time I had a few friends who were Korean in school and they were listening to a lot of it, but also a lot of my non-Korean friends at the time were listening to it too. And this was really more of like the older school bands, so bands like, you know, H.O.T. and a little bit of like Super Junior and stuff like that. So it was really, really quite a while ago. But yeah, that was another influence that kind of brought me a lot of the, I guess, palette of pop and electronic production before I actually knew that I wanted to do electronic stuff. Because by the time I did the electronic stuff in college, like years later, it was like, hey, I heard that in that K-pop song from 10 years ago or something. So then a lot of the bridges started to form. Yeah.

But you also did like dance and DJ culture, but you also combined that with classical music, right?

Yeah, I try to do a little bit of that too. Like for a lot of the DJing that I do as well, it's really a different paradigm from when I do the live electronic music performance stuff. So for example, if I did a more DJ style type of gig, I wouldn't necessarily bring my keyboards along with me. I might leave that at home, but I might bring something—

more DJing.

Yeah, it's more like a mixing type of style between different songs, but I try to use the way that I DJ as a little bit of— what's a good way to frame this? Yeah, I use it a little bit of like an ethnomusicological type of vein as well, mainly because this is thinking also back to when I first got into electronic music. But when I first started doing a lot of it, really a lot of the figures that I would see in electronic music were just these like, you know, white male DJs on stage pumping their fists. And it's like I was very curious about the history of it, so I went a little bit deeper into that and discovered just like everything was appropriated— or not everything appropriated, but A lot of it came from a different culture that isn't really acknowledged right now. So for example, when I do DJ sets, I'll use it as a little bit of a chance to inform my audience or share a little bit more with my audience about like, "Hey, here's a little bit of a historical house DJ set," and we go back to the founders of house in New York with Frankie Knuckles and Larry Levan and stuff like that. And having that as a teaching tool or a tool to show people's history, I think is one of the most beautiful parts. Of music, because you don't always have to, you know, stand in front of a chalkboard or a whiteboard and draw stuff. You can play music and be like, "Hey, listen to how the sounds are changing over time." And in a way, it kind of speaks a little bit to, you know, music in the classical sense too. Like whenever I talk about Baroque music going to classical stuff, going to romantic stuff, here's the path that we draw through music. How do we also do that in different genres? Also.

So you do actually teach a lot of students too, as well?

Yeah, it's a little crazy right now, but yeah, most of my students at the moment are from Berkeley, so they are my students up in Boston, but I still teach also at a couple of other places now and then as an adjunct, for example, at the City University of New York. Sometimes I run a class in the MFA program over there that's called— it's not called this, but it focuses on using a program called Ableton Live to do a lot of like sound design and composition and stuff like that. So those students will do a little bit more of like studio comp work compared to a lot of my students at Berklee who do a little bit more of the live electronic performance types of things.

Got it. Yeah, well, you mentioned this earlier, so I don't want to interfere, but no, that's okay. You look— you do like look very young, so we weren't really sure, you know, you and the—

yeah, that's okay—

all this like university, right? And I was just I'm just curious, you know, I mean, but you said you only moved here when you were 19, and you, so I assume you've been here for a little while, right?

Totally. It's funny that you mentioned that because a lot of my students will also kind of like guess that I'm Korean, but it's okay. At this point they know, like, you know, that it's, they have seen my, I think one of the things that I try to think about a lot also as far as my own prejudices is that like a lot of people who, even if they look young and even if they are young, a lot of the people who are younger than me even, they've done the work and that's why they're so famous, right? It's like, so I think about that a lot. It's, it's, it's a little different also, I think, compared to a lot of traditional academia types of spheres because you'll often see older people, um, again from, you know, that kind of like white male professor type of generation that you see a lot. It's like, honestly, when I was in college all of my professors, I didn't have a single woman professor at all. And no, none of my professors were people of color. So it was very much—

really?

Yeah, it was very much still even in electronic music that's supposed to be, you know, you know, forward thinking and whatever, innovative, right? It was still very much anchored in that academic type of sphere. But now things are changing a lot. I don't think— I think even out of my department, I don't think I'm the youngest at the moment. I think there's like people who are younger than me teaching and it's great. Because that's what the, that's what the students need, right? They don't need, um, someone who hasn't been active. Sure, there's a lot of experience there and there's a lot of value in classes that come from these folks, but there's also value in classes that come from the younger people who are in the field and very active, like some more active than me even, who are doing stuff, right? Um, and it's good because then students have these many options. It's like you get to learn from the OGs and then you get to learn from The newer folks too who are taking it to a new level. So I like that a lot about Berkeley at least.

I was actually asking about how did you actually land your agent? So have you had it for a long time or?

Oh, my agent? As far as my artist stuff goes, for a long time I was actually just doing my own stuff. It was just me and it was stressing me out a lot. I'm sure. The time where I thought like, "Okay, I should get someone to kind of help me a little bit out." And I used to do a lot of these events or I would— not do a lot of them, but I would go to a lot of these events for women in music. And at one of these particular events, I met my current assistant or agent Liz. And she was— she's no longer, but she was a business student, music business student at NYU. And she was really great. And we kind of just met at this one event because we both went there. We didn't know anybody, so we ended up chatting. But I found out that she was helping a couple of her friends at the time who are now also artists and touring actively. She was still a student at the time and I think I had just graduated or something. But she was saying, "Hey, why don't we maybe touch base a little bit? If you ever need help with anything, let me know." And yeah, so we've been working together for about a year or so at this point, but she helps me a lot with admin stuff. Thanks, Liz! Putting things together. And I think it's important— maybe this also goes back to what Yumiko said just now about having a team, right? But at the moment, it was just— previously it was just me. Now at the moment, it's me and Liz, and sometimes I have another friend also helping me with social media stuff, so it's 3 of us. But maybe down the road, if things get bigger, I might need a bigger team. And then eventually it'll get to the stage where instead of me touring on other people's teams, I'm also doing the same thing with me, but it's with my own team. So maybe that also goes a little bit back to just being able to make connections with people and ask for help when you need to, and don't like die under the weight of everything that's crumbling when you have to manage so many things at once. So yeah.

Yeah, totally. Asking for help is certainly a very necessary skill in our field. I wanted to circle back to songwriting. Sure. Can you tell us a little bit about your creative process? What is it like for you starting a new song?

Yeah, totally. As far as songwriting goes, and this is something interesting that I was actually just talking to one of my other colleagues about, but a lot of people who do electronic music, they often think of themselves as producers mainly, which I do as well, but for me it's very much a merger of writer and producer. So I'm so glad that you mentioned songwriting. Eric. It's a big part of the process for me, and I think really there's nothing— if a production sounds good but it has a bad writing style or bad song, it's totally destroyed from the get-go. So for me, the process for writing often is centered around a concept, and I like to think about not so much very— sometimes it is very specific, but sometimes it's also broad. So it could be the— an example, what's a recent example? So it could be something like the idea of being defeated, right? Maybe you've tried to do something and you failed, or it could also be you've had a conversation with someone and they keep trying to shoot you down. There's a lot of ways that you can experience defeat. And I then try to create some kind of song that's related to the emotions associated with that. So not so much the actual topic itself, but a lot of the time the emotions. And the reason I bring up "Defeated" is because that's actually the name of my next song. Song that's coming up. So that's a little bit of my process for that. I created the song based on this idea of you've tried your best at doing something, but you keep on falling flat on your face. And in this particular context, it was through the eyes of looking at a relationship, but it doesn't have to be. It could be even dealing with your daily life, right? You try to do something, you keep failing. You try to practice something on your instrument or whatever, you keep failing. Just keep getting defeated. So I like thinking of that a lot. And related to that, and this goes back to the process itself, I do a lot of these things called word pools, where it's like, I'll think of the word defeat, right? And then what's related to that? Defeat. Battle is related to that. Maybe the concept of getting hurt is related to that. Like if you fall down, you get hurt, you're defeated, right? So I do a lot of these word pools. And that ends up helping me with my lyrics in the songwriting. So I'll kind of like bring them back in and have them tie back into the theme of the song. But yeah, it always starts with the theme, it kind of goes out a little bit more general, and then it comes back and is more specific. Yes.

Yeah, so I do something similar myself sometimes when I'm composing. So once you have your word pool or your, um, your associated emotions. How do you start with the musical ideas? Do you improvise on a piano or sing or what?

Yeah, I'll be honest, um, most of the time if I am doing like a very song-based type of idea, it's always like piano and vocals.

That's it.

So that's where, that's where really a lot of the, the training has helped in. And because now I can just, you know, walk over to my, my keyboard and be just like, those are the chords, that's the, that's the song. Um, versus if I didn't have I'd probably be like struggling a little bit more poking around in my software. But yeah, pretty much it always is just like piano and lyrics or piano and melody. Like I sing on top of it and I'm honestly like not a good singer, but I've trained myself to sing in an acceptable way. That's what I try to see.

I mean, you sound great on everything I've heard.

That's very nice.

Thank you.

But yeah, like sometimes I'll play stuff and I'll like experiment with it. I'll sing it with my own voice and it's like, okay, that sounds a little odd. But if it sounds good, then I probably know that I'm on to something. Just because I feel like, again, going back to the songwriting process, if it doesn't feel like a compelling idea on the piano, I feel like it probably won't be a compelling idea even if I produced it out. And that's for me. I know some people will manage to take a very mediocre song and polish the hell out of it and it'll turn out great. But at least for me, coming from the place of, again, the more compositional side, if I have I know that I'm gonna have confidence in the production too. So yeah.

Yeah, that makes sense. I wanna ask you, how do you balance that? Like, you know, playing on an acoustic instrument and then when it comes to the electronic production, there's so much work, right? And finding your sounds, samples, mixing. Sometimes I have trouble integrating those two worlds, which seems so very, like one is kind of like organic from nature. It feels like playing acoustic instruments. And then when you get into your DAW, you're kind of locked into a lot of little boxes, right? And loops. How do you manage that balance?

Yeah, absolutely. To be honest, Eric, I sometimes still struggle with it too. It's so hard. And mainly it's because, I don't know, I feel like for me, and maybe y'all might feel the same way too, but when I think about some of these acoustic sounds, like thinking back to the flute, for example, or even the piano, like a really nice, you know, Steinway. Nothing beats like a really nice Steinway, right? Something about this— the sound of the instrument is like so powerful, and that's why sometimes I end up recording these things, like just recording them instead of programming things in. But yeah, that's a challenge that I always have. Sometimes my solution in a weird sort of way is to run in the total opposite direction. So if it starts off with a piano type of sound, I'll purposely choose a really obscure kind of, I don't know, synth pad or something, synth key sound that sounds very different to put me into a totally different frame of mind. And it's a little bit of forcibly removing me from the piano sound a little. Sometimes I'll inevitably end up returning to it, for example, if I do record the sound, like I mentioned. But sometimes when I'm just trying to get something into my DAW, I'll purposely pick something that isn't acoustic and see where that takes me. But otherwise, yeah, it's always a struggle. And in terms of the loop situation which you mentioned, I get so stuck in that too. So sometimes what I found myself doing is, for a lot of the production stuff, especially if it tends to be a song that I've written out the chorus for and then I want to produce after that, I'll work on say 4 bars, but then I'll set myself a timer. Again, going back to the phone as the best tool you could ever have, I'll use my phone my phone and set myself a timer of like 10 minutes or something, and it's like, "Doltric has got 10 minutes to figure out how to put this into a 3-minute arrangement," and then I'm just like, "Go!" And I'll do all of that. So I kind of force myself to do a little bit of structuring, and it's tough. It always is, I think, but it's one part maybe about the production process that I still love very much because it's tough and because it challenges me. I think probably the day where I've failed and I have nothing else left to do in the world of electronic music production is when I feel like I can't do anything exciting or I don't feel challenged to do something. So I kind of like, like that a little bit, a little bit masochistic, I guess.

But I don't know, I love it. Oh, it is a challenge, and you've given us so many wonderful solutions. Um, you know, there's that whole theme of limitations inspiring creativity, right? Right. That's, that's our biggest trick we've got in our, in the bag.

Can I jump in just a little bit?

Sure, go ahead.

Yeah, so you are now a sound engineer, you know, sound designer, not only a composer and musician. That's just beyond my understanding. I mean, it's awesome. I've encountered so many different artists living in New York City, obviously, and then I met this lighting artist, and that was just— that blew my mind. It's like the concept, new concept of, you know, art. And then that's exactly what you're doing. So were you interested in, like, because I'm classic, classical musicians, we talk about harmonies, we talk about tone color, right? Then, um, but, you know, let's say we turn the clock backwards and go back to where Beethoven was, right? And probably at the time he was somewhat close to, you know, maybe sound engineer, you know, he was experimenting with the sound because the biggest sound in his time would be what, a big, big old ship, right? Or I don't know, I, or cannonball, cannon, you know, the, the big sound and that I know he was deaf toward the end, but maybe that's some kind of a— as a young Beethoven, he was inspiring. And how can I have this big sound in orchestra, right? So he was doing his sound engineer. So were you, as a growing up, were you interested in sound? I mean, you know, I didn't think of that concept until—

Yeah, totally. I mean, growing up, Yukimi, in terms of like sounds. I don't think I was necessarily interested in like, "Oh, that sounds like it's not a piano. What is it?" Like, I wasn't really that focused yet when I was growing up, but absolutely I did think a lot about like, how do we use existing sounds to paint pictures? And I think that's one of like the biggest takeaways that I had from like maybe my study of like programmatic music, like back when I was a— oh my god, so many years ago now, over a decade ago. But yeah, even just going back to— since you were talking about Beethoven, like, this just came to mind too, but the idea of, you know, painting pictures even through a limited number of colors. Like, I think a lot about the Pastoral Symphony and stuff like that, and it's like, how is he creating that kind of atmosphere? Like, what instrumentation is he using to do that? And I feel like it's kind of the same thing, like, much like you would have, say, in that context, the woodwinds representing a bird, maybe an electronic that's not necessarily woodwinds, but maybe you've you've got some kind of synthesizer sound that's very high up in the frequencies that's doing a lot of like, you know, bird stuff. And if it's, you know, a drone thing for a pastoral kind of like, you know, very idyllic sort of atmosphere, then maybe it's not, you know, a low kind of held out note on whatever instrument, like cello or something, but maybe it's like an actual drone where you play a note on your instrument and it's just held out for a super long time. So I think a lot about— I think about a lot of orchestration like that too, too, when I'm doing production stuff as well.

I mean, your songs are very well composed. Personally, I feel like I understand where that comes from. Maybe that's the classical side. Like you said, there has to be a strong song and strong structure underneath. But the production is so good and, you know, really polished. It's just amazing sounds and mixing. How did you learn production? Was it through Berklee? Was it YouTube videos? Because it's really top-notch.

Yeah, thank you so much, Eric. That means a lot. I'll be very honest. I think I grew the most after I was done with college. And I think it's because college gave me a lot of the tools that I had, but it was still— it still took me time to learn them, right? Like, I listen back to a lot of like the pieces that I made while I was still a college student, and it's like, yeah, they're okay, but you can definitely hear like the beginnings of Daultric trying to like poke around and being like, what is this doing? Which is not to say that I didn't understand things. I understood things conceptually, like, "Okay, this is how this synthesizer works," or "This is how this compressor works," or whatever it is. "This is how that sound engineering type of thing works." But being able to just put my nose to the grindstone and work at it, that really came after college. And I think it was just a lot of practice. And actually, this is maybe the biggest tip I could share if there's a biggest tip. I started using my ears a lot more. I don't know if— and this is a very weird sort of thing to say as well, I think, but growing up as a pianist, even though I did do a lot of classical piano stuff, my ears were not super strong. Like, for example, I would play a piece and if I were to mess up halfway, I would be totally lost. Because I'd be like, if I memorized it, right, like I memorized like, I don't know, a piece by Brahms or something, play the thing, and I use that as an example just because the harmonies are so beautiful, right, but it's like if you forget something, that's it, you're like totally out of it versus now, like it's funny, I actually revisited this piece not long ago, I'm thinking of the Intermezzo in A minor— uh, A major, like Opus 118, but I played that back when I was much, much younger and I remember having like a total brain fart where I gave up halfway because I couldn't remember the piece. I revisited it a couple of months ago and I managed to play it, and this time I was like, wait, this is that chord, this is this chord, la la la. So I started having a lot of these more like connect— more like solid connections between what I was listening to and what I was actually playing and doing. And the reason I bring about this anecdote of like using the ears is because I think being a classically trained musician took me a lot away from relying on the ears and instead relying on eyes for notation. But the moment I started doing a lot of the listening, that helped a lot also with my production stuff, because then I would be listening to a song and I'd be like, "Um, okay, yes, that's a very cool synthesizer part. Okay, so we know it's a synthesizer, but what kind of wave is it made with? Is it like a saw wave, or is it like a sine wave, or whatever?" And also is it coming in very quickly? Does it have a very fast attack like a piano, or is it more fading in? And then what kind of effects does it have? Does it have reverb? Does it have a delay on it or a filter or something? And being able to use that part of the listening toolkit to apply that to electronic music helped me realize that, okay, so I know what that sound sounds like. Now I'm looking in my production production software and it sounds like that, which doesn't sound like the original. So how do I get closer to that sound? And that was really something that I only developed after college. I was developing beginnings of that as a student, but it was really when I really started doing a lot of this regular practice and opening my ears, very literally, to stuff that my production I think got a lot better. So I don't know if that helps, Aria. That was a very roundabout answer.

Oh yeah. Yeah, no, it makes total sense to me. I mean, you're basically talking about the difference between playing music versus making music, right?

Totally. Yes. Yeah.

Um, have you ever heard of, I think it was Synthorial? Do you know that?

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Totally. Right. Cause I tried a few lessons in that where they give you a synth sound and then you have to try to make it yourself. And I knew I was bad, but I didn't think I was that bad. It's really hard, but I feel like this is the modern equivalent of ear training.

Yeah, it totally is, and that's actually things that I do with my students. So if any of my students are listening to this, which they might, it's like, now you know where it comes from. Now you know why we do the thing. Yeah, we'll play a sound, or sometimes it'll be something that they bring to, they bring to the table. So they're like, hey, there's this new song that's on the radio, let's listen to it and let's kind of think a little bit about how that works. And sometimes it's not even a sound, but it could be something like the processing on a vocal, for example. So like the singer's voice, like how are they processing to sing his or her voice or their voice, right? Like, how— what kind of effects do they put on, you know, their vocal chain in that case? And that's a part of the ear training too, listening to all of these different artists' types of sounds and then being, how do we recreate that if we want to?

Instrument. So I'm very curious about this Ableton— sorry, I have to read, I'm so old.

That's okay.

You know, the Ableton keypad. Yeah, can you show us if you have in front of you?

Absolutely.

So this is something, this is an instrument that's called the Ableton Push, and it works very interestingly because the layout will change depending on what you want it to be, which is, it's kind of fun. Um, the, the cool part about it is that, um, let me see if I can also share my sound. So the cool part about this too is that it's not just specific to one type of sound, so it could pretty much be like any sound that you want it to. At the moment, I've got some kind of electric piano sound pulled up. But that's how you kind of play it. And I don't know if anyone plays guitar. Maybe some of the listeners will play guitar, but this particular layout is very similar to guitar. So each note that's directly above each other is a fourth above each other. So for example, that's your major chord. That's F. That's G. So you can play a lot of these chords everywhere. But yeah, this is my main controller that I like using a lot. The main reason why I do it is because of what I mentioned just now, which is that it doesn't— oops, sorry, let me move my mic. The main reason why I like playing it so much is because you can have different types of sounds, right? So the electronic piano— electric piano is one of them at the moment. But I'd love to get a suggestion from like, any of y'all, would you like to hear a different instrument? Maybe we can find something else.

Something weird.

Yeah, okay, cool.

Something out there.

Yeah, maybe something weird, right? So I'm gonna browse for a different sound, maybe like, uh, let's do an effect. So, okay, cool.

Can I ask, Claire, um, yeah, are these sounds loaded into the controller or is it separately on your computer?

Yeah, so these are all— that's a great question, Eric. So these are all in the software. So in the software Ableton Live, you have to connect this to the software for it to work. So very honestly, like, if I didn't connect this to my computer, it would just be like a really expensive paperweight, like a $700 paperweight. But yeah, let's see what happens if we load like this one up. That one was kind of fun. So let's see.

Cool.

So we got some lasers now.

Going.

Kind of fun.

Yeah, but if we wanted to, we could also do something that's like totally different. So maybe let's do, yeah, let's do some drums. So you can do like some drum kits as well, which is kind of fun. Let's see if we can do, yeah, let's do like a classic 808 thing.

Load that. Cool.

So now the layout has changed, right? We're not seeing those notes anymore, but now we're seeing drums. So I can do like drums over here. So it's really flexible. It's one of my favorite parts about using this instrument. It is created by the company Ableton that also creates the software Ableton Live. So that's the software that I was connecting to my— that is in my computer that I'm connecting to at the moment. So it integrates really well with that software. Yeah, that's the instrument.

Awesome, thank you for the demonstration.

Thank you. Is this the future of piano keyboard? I don't know. Are we gonna forget about this black and white and then Is that the future?

I don't know, honestly, that's a great question, Yukimi. And I think that for— I often tell my students that like a lot of the time it's not so much the same instrument, but I try to help them think of it as a totally different instrument because the piano is one thing, and then the piano keyboard synthesizers are also a different thing, and then you have this sort of thing, right? Because I remember, for example, this is a little bit of a side anecdote, but the very first time that I touched a synthesizer, I thought it was gonna be the same because it was a piano keyboard, right? But I basically had to relearn all of my technique because the action is so different. So when you play it, it's like, it's a totally different type of thing. It's like springs instead of the actual, you know, hammer action that you have. So it feels really, really different. And I remember at first I hated it because I was like, "Ugh, what's this like plastic thing?" So I hated it at first, but after a while you kind of get used to it. So that's why I think a little bit about this sort of instrument being totally different, and that's a little bit of what we do at Berklee College of Music too. The program that I teach in specifically is called the Electronic Digital Instrument Program, so a lot of my students do have a keyboard background, in part because we do use keyboard controllers in their instruments too, but some of them will use Push, and some of them will use other instruments that look a little more different. Also, there's lots of different instruments too, so it really depends on the student, and that's why we think of it as a totally separate vein. So I think maybe it is the future, but I don't think it'll replace the piano. I think it'll all kind of grow together, if that makes sense.

Yeah, so what's your advice for classical musicians who are interested in broadening their field or horizons?

Yeah, that's a really great question. I think A lot of the time it's just being open. And this is also thinking back to my experience, but some of the experiences of my students too. Sometimes we get so locked in the things that we're used to that the moment we step out of the comfort zone, it's so jarring that we just freeze up a little bit. So I think being open is really interesting. If people are interested and they come from a classical piano background, and you want to get maybe a little bit of insight into something that could be kind of a little still classical but going into the more electronic side, there's a really wonderful set of albums by Wendy Carlos called Switched on Bach that I would highly recommend. This was done back in like the '60s and the '70s, but basically Wendy Carlos, she's an amazing electronic musician, one of the very first electronic musicians to do this. She did entirely orchestrated synthesizer versions of pieces by Bach. So for example, there's like the Two-Part Inventions, like in A minor, for example. She did that, but instead of having just the two voices for right hand and left hand piano, she reorchestrated everything so that it would be like, okay, there's like a high synth part playing the right hand in this section. Later on when the left hand enters, it's like another type of synthesizer, and it's really, really beautiful. I would really encourage people to listen to it. It's called Switched on Bach. And there's, I think, Switched on Bach 1 and then Switched on Bach 2. And then she also did, I think, a version of the Well-Tempered Clavier as well, also in the synthesizer version of stuff. So if people are interested in that, I would highly recommend. Oh, that's really—

So Claire, we're getting a little long now. We still have rapid-fire questions to go, but I wanted to make sure that we touched on something very important, which you've already alluded to, which is your efforts in activism, right? Because like you said, you know, in our musical field, sometimes they're predominantly white male, historically speaking. So can you talk a little bit about your efforts in this area?

Yeah, specifically, I think a lot of the work that I do, Eric, is related to the field of music tech, but also even in just like, you know, music in general. I think we see a lot of these, especially even from like the classical sphere and the jazz sphere, there's still a lot of non-white people whose voices have yet to be heard. So a lot of the time when I'm working with young people especially— I work a lot with youth and a lot with kids K-12 as well— it's really just about showing up and being there. And it might seem very, very simple and very rudimentary, but even just walking into a classroom— a lot of the time when I've done talks, for example, about music and I walk into a classroom and there's a few students who are not white and they're just looking at this random Asian lady who's walked in, it means something to them. And a lot of the time, even after I've done a certain talk at a certain location, I've done music tech work or I've showed them synths and software and stuff like that, there have been students who have come up to me and be like, "Hey, thank you for being here, 'cause every other teacher that I've seen or every other—" person I've seen do this has not looked like me, but now I know it's possible. And that's pretty much exactly the same thing that happened for me. My— apart from, you know, that one night that changed my life with the live electronic music stuff for— with Disclosure, the other night that I really think about a lot was when I saw an artist called Tokimonsta perform. And Tokimonsta was the very first woman of Asian descent nominated from— for a Grammy in the dance and electronic music category, and that was only in 2019. 2017, so it's not too long ago. But I saw her perform many years ago when I was still a student, and that was a night where I was like, "She looks like me. This is not impossible." So that meant a lot, and I think about that so much. So that kind of, in a way, was one of the reasons why I try to do a lot of this activism stuff, where I try to integrate it into my education. So I'll bring a lot of that element into some of these spaces where I work in. And to be very frank, most of the spaces that I do work in have strong populations of people of color. So it really does make a difference when people see diversity and when they see different representation in different areas of fields. Some things I've tried to do also is when I know that I can't be— I shouldn't be the right person to do this, I try to open it up to someone who should. For example, I recently did something that was focused actually a little bit more on dance music culture. And it was specifically also for a group of students that was more students of color. And I offered it up to one of my other friends who was specifically Black, and he does a lot of like DJ culture and a lot of like history as well. And I said, "This is the perfect person to do this." So I think that's also something that we can do as well in our sphere as educators and just people being aware of what is a good time to show up and like when is a good time to show up to a certain group of students who need to see it, or to a certain audience who needs to see it. Doesn't need— just need to be students, but like it could be a different audience. So I try to do a little bit of that as well when I'm working with different groups, not just, just like showing you cool stuff, how to press buttons, but also like teaching people a little bit about the more historical side, or being aware of like the cultural connotations of some of these these things that we're working with, right?

Yeah, because ultimately everybody has a voice that deserves to be heard, right?

Yeah, totally. And I think for a lot of the— at least from— and this is going back to the younger kids that I work with too, but for a lot of them, I think they don't realize that, um, a lot of these norms exist when they're so young. They, they don't. So, so they're still open to a lot of these ideas. I'm really talking about like super young, like 4 or 5, 5-year-olds. Um, the reason why I, I think about them is because One of the incidents that did for sure shape a lot of what I'm doing now is I used to tour a lot with this group called Alphabet Rockers. Shout out to Alphabet Rockers! They're a Grammy— double Grammy-nominated hip-hop group that does a lot of hip-hop but for kids. So they do a lot of like social justice types of work, and a lot of the audience is in that age group. So it's like 4 or 5-year-olds, sometimes a little bit older, like teens and stuff like that. But there was one concert we did for for these kindergarteners or first graders or something, and I was doing the onstage DJing and playback stuff for them. After the show, we had a meet and greet, and every single one of the kids that came up to me and asked about stuff or wanted to say hi, they were all girls. And I think if I hadn't been a woman, that wouldn't have happened. And then all the boys were in the back, and I just thought of, imagine all all of these opportunities where maybe there wasn't a woman here and it was just the boys that were coming up and all of these girls wouldn't have the chance or the courage really to acknowledge like, "Hey, I wanna find out more about what she's doing or what they're doing on stage and stuff." So I think a lot about these actual practical things happening. Not practical, but like real life situations happening and the real effect that it has. On a person, just because I think of the real effect that it had on me at the time. So yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to go off on too big a tangent here, but, um, but that's the thing. I know sometimes people get down on social justice and there's a lot of fighting in the news and stuff like that, but we're talking about real people, right? Real experiences. When somebody comes up to you like that and says, you know, you inspired me. Yeah. That's, it's so meaningful and so powerful. Totally. So kudos to you for doing that, for taking your platform.

Thanks for letting me share that. I don't often get to talk about that. So thank you. Yeah.

Well, we believe it's important too. We gotta wrap up pretty soon, but I just wanted to ask you quickly before we move on to rapid fire, I think, as a music technologist, what do you see in the future? What's the future of music?

Yeah. Wow. That's such a tough question, Eric. The future. We want your perspective. Yeah, totally. Um, very honestly, I think there's, there's so many possibilities that I don't think I'd be able to, to touch all of them. But at least from one thing in my current, like, you know, line of sight, I guess, is that there's a lot of more people who I think will have the courage to try things out without all of these, like, barriers, uh, before them. So for example, I'm thinking back to, you know, this is a little bit more of an older school stuff too, but even going back to the studio, just now Clara mentioned like she has this setup as a studio, but like 10 years ago that might not have been the case for a lot of people, like they wouldn't have been able to do that on their own and have the courage to, you know, do things for themselves. So I think there's gonna be a lot of that. I hesitate to use this word, but I think it makes sense in this case, like a more democratic approach to music creation. It's like everyone kind of has the same tools, and you know, it won't always be the same, but even just starting, say, with phones, like if you have a phone, being able to use that as part of your creative process, creative technology process, having your phone be your first foray into making sound or like, you know, building beats and stuff like that. I think that's gonna be something that will definitely be in the future, and to that end, I think just even more diversity in the music that we're hearing. Not just from the people— from people also, but even just styles, stylistically. I think a lot of people when they make music, and this is something that I tell to my students and my mentees as well, but it's like, it's definitely not— it might be a little bit cliché, but it's not an understatement to say that no one else is gonna make the music that you're gonna make, because it's true. No one else is you, right? So if you don't make something, no one else is gonna do it for you. No one else is gonna make it in the exact same way. So I think to that end, there's gonna be a lot more different types of music styles that we'll be hearing. Sure, it might sound similar, but I think there's a lot of power that in everybody kind of realizing their own version of the music that they're hearing in their heads. So I think that's kind of what I see in the immediate future. I think there's so many possibilities though, like even the crazy music tech developments that are developing all the time. Like, I was just talking to some of my other friends the other day about this, but now it's not just physical controllers, right? But I did a little bit of work with this pair of gloves called the Mimew gloves that are basically gloves, but they're controlling music. So if you do something like if you make a certain gesture, it plays a certain chord or it puts on a certain effect. So there's that too, which is like maybe that's an example of how crazy things will, will get in the most wonderful sort of way.

Sorry to interrupt. Yeah, no, I saw that. I saw your video of that. But that was cool. Oh, thanks, Derek. Yeah. I had no idea that that was happening.

It's really weird. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's weird in the best sort of ways. And I mean that in like a very like, you know, wonderful, in awe type of way. But yeah, that's just a fraction, I think, of stuff that people are developing now. So who knows what'll happen next? Right.

Right. Well, we really appreciate your insight and your perspective. So thank you for sharing that with us. So we're going to move on to our rapid fire questions. All right. Okay. All right. Short and sweet, to the point. All right, and we'll take turns, the three of us. So I'll go first. Number 1, what is your comfort food?

Oh my god. Oh no, oh no, this is terrible. Okay, I'll go for Singaporean food, char kway teow.

Okay. Yeah, okay. Number 2, cats or dogs? Dogs.

Oh no, cats.

Oh no, you've been outed. Now you said dogs first. I don't know if you can take that back. Oh no. What is your word or words to live by?

Ah, okay. Work hard, stay humble, don't be late by Iskandar Ismail. Yeah, I know it's short, it's supposed to be rapid fire, but I just want to say that Iskandar Ismail is a Singaporean composer who inspired me very much back in the day. So that was a quote that I took from my mentor who was his mentee, my mentor Julian Wong. Hi Julian! Julian's watching.

Yeah, wonderful. Thank you. Um, what is the most important quality you look for in other people?

Wow, oh my God, these are so deep, Eric.

It's Yukimi's question. I didn't— I can't take that.

That's good, Yukimi. Thank you. Um, uh, patience.

Very important for sure. And by the same token, what is the worst quality in people that you want to stay away from?

Cool. And maybe this is a little bit of myself too. Bad-temperedness. Like losing your temper. Okay.

Name 3 people who inspire you, living or dead. Oh my God.

Let's see. My grandfather and my mentor when I was— Mr. Xiao, my mentor when I was in high school. School doing music and also Tokimonster.

Which historical figure or composer do you want to learn or take lessons from if she or he were alive?

Probably Nadia Boulanger. I love her, her ideas about sound. Yes, Nadia Boulanger.

Great. Which historical figure composer do you wish to hang out with? At the bar if she or he were alive?

Oh, interesting. Huh, well, maybe Bach. I don't know, I think it would be fun to chat with him about like all of the same things that he's written many times, so probably Bach. Well, I—

well, the Bach too, so we can all hang out. So my turn, name one piece in your current playlist.

Oh, one piece in my current playlist. I've been listening a lot to a tune called Never Enough by Disclosure, so that's one piece.

All right, maybe we'll list that in our Spotify as well. Name a book title you're currently reading.

Oh, I'm reading quite a few. Um, oh dear, well, uh, let's see, what would be a good one? The reason I hesitated was because the one that initially came to mind and You can feel free to edit this out, but it's called Assholes. So it's—

I don't know what else to say.

That's why I was like, okay, I probably shouldn't say that. Like, on the— it's actually in the background over there. Whoops. If that's okay, then that's the book that I've been currently reading. It's very fun. It talks a lot about the human condition, actually, and about like narcissism, which is why I thought it was interesting. Another book that I've been reading is— revisiting, actually— was Becoming by Michelle Obama, so that's been another one that I've been looking at too. But yeah, feel free to edit that first part.

We'll keep both, maybe it will be— Oh no! You get only one song or piece to listen to for the rest of your life, what is it?

Oh wow, that one's tough. You know, maybe it would be— it would probably be the— yeah, I think I will say, I wasn't sure about this, but I'm pretty sure the Arthur Rubinstein version of Intermezzo in A minor is like one of my favorites all the time. It's one of the reasons that I still go back to a lot of classical music stuff, even if the rest of my world is electronic, because it puts me into a good space. Yes. That's exciting.

We have to talk more. Rubinstein is also my personal god. So music is blank. What is the blank? Fill in the blank.

Music is a world of possibilities.

Awesome! Wow, that is great.

Wonderful answer. Ding ding ding ding ding! You win! All right, thank you so much, Claire. Before we, uh, before we wrap up, do you want to talk a little bit about Beattober and what it is?

Yeah, totally. Thanks, Eric. Um, thank you so much for having me. This was so fun. But yeah, Beattober, um, So I'm currently doing this October-long project called Beattober where I make a little bit of music every day. Previous years, I tried to do a little bit of a theme for every year, so this year I'm actually doing a new song every day, which is not killing me yet. We'll see how it is by the time this podcast gets released. We will see if I'm still alive. But yeah, if folks want to follow me, that's gonna be @doltric, so D-O-L-L-T-R-I-C-K on all social media platforms, or if you look on the green internet. It is D-O-L-L-T-R exclamation point C-K in all lowercase letters. Sometimes the spelling throws people a little bit off, but as long as you do the all lowercase letters and the exclamation point, you should find me. So that's a little bit of that. Yeah.

All right. Well, thank you so much. That's going to wrap up this episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Claire Marie Lim. Thank you, Claire, for joining us today and sharing all your wonderful thoughts on so many different subjects. Um, and once again, I will remind the audience, if you want to find out more about Claire, her website is clairemarieLim.com. And she also has a website for Dolltrick specifically at dolltrick.com. Check the, the description for the links.

If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review on whatever podcasting platform you use. If you are watching us from YouTube, remember to hit the thumbs up button and be sure to subscribe to our channel. You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. The links are in the description below.

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And we will see you all for the next episode of The Piano Pod. Bye everybody! Bye!

Thank you, Claire! Claire! That was awesome!