Season 2, Episode 3, Part 1: Josh Massicot - Keyboardist, Author, Songwriter,...

You're listening to The Piano Pod, where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry about how they are bringing the piano into the 21st century. Hi Josh, welcome to the show.

Hi, thanks for having me.

Welcome.

Yay.

So Josh and I are actually old buddies. We go way back. To our undergrad days at Eastman.

Really, really bad.

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's just, you know, not— okay, yeah, it's been a while. But back to Eastman School of Music and University of Rochester. And we've had this running conversation just about as long on the state of classical music and music education. Incidentally, Josh is just an unbelievable teacher, and he's always been my model since I started out as somebody who is more experienced than me and just has a knack for it. So yeah, so we talked a lot about that kind of stuff. And then back in March of this year, 2021, Rolling Stone magazine published this article. It's become rather infamous, I think, with the title, "Juilliard Must Modernize or It Will Disappear." And this article circulated widely among classical musicians on social media. And Josh published what I thought was a really thoughtful and articulate response on Facebook which I then shared and my friends picked up. A lot of people thought it was better than the original article, honestly. So we all read that and we thought we should really bring Josh on the show to talk about these things. Um, so we're going to get into that, but first, um, so our audience gets to know you a little bit, Josh, I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about your musical background and how you came up, because it's a little bit unusual for a classically trained musician.

Yes, I am a jack of all trades is a positive spin of that. And then I think a lot of times I'm just waiting for someone to discover that I'm a complete and utter fraud.

So we all have that.

Yeah, I grew up in New Orleans, Louisiana. I'm the only musician in my family, but my family goes way back there, actually before the founding of the country, which is a pretty cool thing. And so I grew up in a very musical place and my parents were musical enthusiasts. Like we were always listening to music. My mom was a dancer when she was younger. And so like music was a big sort of part of my life. And as long as I can remember, I was always listening to it because my mom was a dancer. We had a piano in the house. And so I sort of just, I had an older brother and he was taking lessons and I was, you know, like too young to take lessons. And so I was just like listening to songs kind of like a sponge. I was listening to songs on the radio. My parents had a big LP collection. I would just listen to songs and learn how to play them by ear. And my musical interests were really— have always been super, super diverse. Like, I love popular music and rock and blues and jazz, and— but I also love classical and got really into classical music around, you know, 10 or 11 years old, which is like really young but also really late for most classical musicians. So started taking classical lessons then and, and learned pretty early on that I had to like segregate or compartmentalize aspects of musicianship, like never tell my classical teacher that, for instance, I didn't learn how to read like the entire first year of my lessons. I knew like what lines and spaces were, and so I would just like count up the lines and spaces to figure out the first note and be like, okay, cool, and then just start playing the piece because she would always play the pieces for me before, um, like introducing them, or I would listen to recordings from the library.

Um, so you're mostly playing by ear?

Yeah, I mean, pretty exclusively. Um, and but I, you know, eventually learned how to, how to read. Um, and I got really into it, and, uh, like so into it that I was a big idiot and, um, left my, like, my junior senior year of high school, like, you know, had a chip on my shoulder. I was like, I'm going to apply to colleges. And so somehow they made a mistake and let me into some great schools. And so I went to Eastman as a baby. I was 16 years old when I went there and found out very quickly that I knew nothing about classical music and spent that first year just being as scrappy as I possibly could. But loved my experience there. Obviously, like immersing myself in that world for 4 years was deeply meaningful to me. And then, you know, took a little bit of time off and gigged and eventually went back to Eastman for my master's and kind of fell in love with teaching after doing, you know, 17 different things for a couple years. I don't know, like the boring story is that, you know, like met my wife at Eastman and we both got jobs here and kind of made Rochester our home. And it sort of took me teaching at Nazareth College to learn how sort of silly it was that I had been compartmentalizing aspects of my musicianship for like a really long time in my life. We were smaller, small liberal arts school. We have a pretty big school of music. We have about 300 students in our school of music. We're the second biggest school within the college, and our primary enrolling programs are music therapy, music education, and music business. So sort of where I fit in, you know, sort of my place in that college and a niche that I very intentionally carved out for myself and was lucky to be supported doing that was, you know, we have obviously music education students who need to be able to, you know, improvise accompaniments or do score reductions or I think about my wife all the time who's like at two different schools and she maybe has her Suzuki cello book at one school and her Suzuki piano or violin book in another school. And so she's constantly transposing accompaniments because, you know, she has to play them in a different key. And then I got handed this functional piano course for music therapists that like really didn't have a curriculum or any required text. And they're like, we have this class that we want to do and we don't know what to do with it. And I was totally shocked that there were like zero resources available to give my students. Like, you could either find like, "You can play pop piano too," and you'd get these super frickin lame arrangements of like the melody jammed in your right hand pinky and like completely squared out rhythms that just sound awful. Like, you don't have to be a musician to know how terrible those things sound. Or like someone's dissertation on like 1910 stride piano, you know, styles. And so it's like there's nothing in between that really empowers students with these skills or breaks down these elements into sort of easily digestible and pedagogically sound approaches. So I started making handouts for my students, and those handouts got really long and ridiculous and eventually led to a book. So it's sort of become a passion of mine. But I don't know, I'm kind of always been restless as a musician. This is a long story, so cut me off. I've always been restless as a musician, so I'm never happy, like, sort of doing one thing.

I get—

I have like musical ADD and I get bored. So I tend to say yes to projects that are different or interesting. And then if I can't find those projects, I tend to just make them. So that's kind of what I've enjoyed doing throughout my career. And so that means like we started teaching a version of that class that I built for our graduate students 4 or 5 years ago and sort of had to retool that curriculum. And we're in the process of doing it for music business students and incorporating synth and MIDI input and scoring into that curriculum too. So it's a very cool part of my job, but it's sort of, I think, like a lot of 21st century musicians, we're we're piecing together a variety of different niches to sort of make a living and also keep ourselves vibrant and interested.

Yeah, okay, a lot to respond to there. Josh, first I want to ask you, can you talk a little bit more about the book and what's in it? Because talking about these two extremes, right, the, the bad arrangements on the one hand and the dissertation on the other, what does functional piano mean to you and how do you teach it?

Yeah, so I mean, functional piano to me is a term that, you know, certainly I didn't coin, but I've sort of taken ownership with, and that it's sort of the— it's the catch-all word I use for everything that kind of falls outside of the realm of what has become traditional classical training, right? So traditional classical training places emphasis on, very early on, on developing facility and developing reading skills, right? So your ability to manipulate an instrument at a very high level and your ability to consume a lot of written music. So those are really important things, and not that they're at all bad skills. I mean, I tell my students every week practically that like, I take it for granted that I can manipulate my instrument well. Like, I've done the work and I can do that. I take it for granted that I can read. Like, that's— and that's something as a kid that I like, oh wait, all these people are so much better at this. It's a skill like anything else. But I think we've kind of created this mystique around these other skills, like how do I learn a song from a recording? Or how do I transpose? Or how do I learn, like, what are the 3 main elements of blues piano stylings on, you know, on The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song? Or like, how can I make my pop songs sound like the recordings? So a lot of these started as like, I mean, I'll be honest, like a lot of it's reverse engineering, right? So this is stuff that I've been doing my whole life. And just kind of do organically. And then I would have students— I was really lucky, my undergraduate students are enrolled, my music therapy students are enrolled in clinical placements on campus. So they're taking my class, but then they're also going, you know, on campus to work with a group of 5-year-old kids with autism, or they're working with an adult student with aphasia, or they're working with a senior student with recovering from a stroke, right? So they're having to manipulate piano and guitar and their voice and use music to accomplish therapeutic goals. So they're going to their sessions being like, hey, Massico— sorry, everyone calls me Massico, not Professor Massico. I don't know how that happened, but it happened. So like, hey, Massico, I was doing this thing in a session and like, how do you ground the blues? Because my student needs a really steady beat, but like, you know, how do I also imbue it with style? So they would just ask me a lot of questions and I'm like, I don't know, let's figure it out. So that's really what functional pianism is to me, because the things that my students have to be able to do and prioritize in very authentic and meaningful ways are a very different skill set than what classical musicians, you know, prioritize. My students have to be able to be really comfortable transposing, right? Like, they'll have a student who comes in, just starts singing— our client coming in just starts singing a song in a key, and they have to figure out what key that's in and play an accompaniment to to it. Um, you know, or whatever, like, horrendous Ultimate Guitar tab they get where, like, every second chord is wrong. They have to know how to fix that on the spot. They don't have time to prep for it. Um, they have to keep a catalog of, you know, dozens and eventually hundreds and thousands of songs in their heads. And how do you maintain that and work on that skill? Um, so those are all, you know, really sort of different, uh, prioritization of skill sets. They don't have to be able to understand everything about classical technique or how to manipulate their instrument. You know, I'm much more interested in function over form with those students because I don't have them for very long. So yes, I would love them to play the instrument in the way that's healthiest and, and most comfortable and most efficient for them, but I can't prioritize that over their ability to, uh, be able to look at a lead sheet for Fly Me to the Moon and not completely freak out at what flat 13 means, you know? Like, there has to be, um, that foundation for them to go on. So it's just sort of a different level of, um, of prioritization of skills. I know it's a long answer, but it's one of those things that I think is, uh, a little confusing at first.

Sure, sure. Well, I think I could probably sum it up as functional piano is essentially practical piano skills for what these musicians need to do. Um, and there seems to be a disconnect that you're describing between the work that they do and what is traditionally taught in a classical curriculum. Now, somebody might say, okay, well, these people are training specifically to be music therapists. Is there the same disconnect for somebody that's going a more traditional route? And that's where we start to get into philosophical issues, right? Which is kind of the reason we're here today. So let's, uh, let's get to the article because this is a very contentious article. I think, um, there's a certain consensus, um, among opinions that I read anyway that it has its flaws. But basically the, um, the author made several stipulations, number one being that orchestras are dying because they're not profitable and they rely on donors to survive. Number 2, if you graduate from Juilliard with a degree, you're not guaranteed a job. In fact, a New York Times report from 2004 tracked down the class of Juilliard from 10 years earlier and found that only 25% of them had full-time orchestral jobs. Also that classical schools should teach technology and business skills, and also that they should introduce different genres of music to their students, audiences, and donors alike, not just classical. So Josh, tell us what you think about all this.

I have way too many opinions, uh, and that's what you're here for. Yeah, it's too early to have a couple beers in me, but I'll have even more, uh, later this evening, I'm sure, when I'm thinking about this. Everything Yeah, you know, um, there's a lot to unpack, not just in that article, but, uh, that surround the assumptions made within that article. And maybe that's the thing that sort of, uh, to use a word, triggered me, uh, to rant on Facebook about it. Um, you know, I, I think, uh, genre playing is such a, a dumb word, and you know, anytime classical musicians start to talk about like incorporating more styles or genres, I just, I have to like hide the visible disdain that's in my face. Um, because, and I think it comes from a good place, but it always comes from a place of looking down upon music that does not fit a very narrow definition, um, of what, uh, uh, great music is. And we can, of course, have this conversation. I have a 50% panel female panel right now. And we're all saying that the music of dead white Europeans is somehow better than what everyone else has ever made in the history of music and discounting the thousands of years of making music that happened outside of that system. I think anytime, you know, even as a musician that has extraordinary reverence for like all types of music, I'm always careful about how I phrase that discussion. And I think classical musicians really should do a better job of doing that, that they just don't. And there's a lot of baggage there that's sort of just like, oh, you know, well, sure, I should listen to a pop song, or like, I'm in a string quartet, I should range, uh, you know, like some Aphex Twin song. I'm like, well, that— The Aphex Twin's been around for 30 years, right? Like, you're not going to reach a new audience with an Aphex Twin song. So, um, you know, it— there's sort of this arrogance and ignorance that, that is equal parts in, in that conversation, um, that I, that I find, you know, problematic, uh, at best. Um, I agree.

Yeah, I'm sorry to interrupt, but the superiority you mentioned, that's something that I face this every day. I'm a classical musician, but I teach children, and they are— they have this understanding of classical music being, you know, polished and education. That's the, the if you want to be educated, you have to go through this path of classical music, not knowing anything else. Although probably they have never heard a single symphony in their lifetime, but that's their mindset. So, so did the classical music market themselves very well in this country? Is that, is that why people have this kind of mindset? And I also have a problem with the fact that I'm a teacher. Okay, I'm a classical pianist too, but I make a living by teaching piano, and I love it. But teaching piano sometimes is considered to be something secondary and, you know, hush-hush. When I first came to New York 10 years ago, or, oh sorry, 13 years ago, oh my gosh, or 15, yeah, and then It was like this, "Oh, so you teach? Oh, you know, as a pianist? Oh, you teach?" That kind of mentality. So, you know, the artist started having to have this two different almost persona. One is the pianist, one is the piano teacher. So where does this superiority and inferiority come from? I'm just, you know.

I mean, yeah, this is These are such great points. You know, I think there's some real speak and there's a lot to unpack there, but there's some like sort of things that we have to get out of the way when we talk about classical music as a thing that functions in a modern musical economy, right? So classical, like the entirety of the classical musical industry accounts for about 2% of total revenue of the music industry. So anytime we're having a conversation about why or why not a symphony is succeeding or failing, or why or why not a Juilliard grad can get a job, I mean, we have to acknowledge that it's 2% of— I mean, we're a consumer economy, right? It's 2% of the industry, and we have to be real about that. And recognize that, A, that's something we have to work against, right? And that within this very narrow 2% slice of the industry, there is intense competition for a limited number of audience members and a limited number of funds. And that's just the reality of the industry. Like, we keep waiting for, like, some magic thing to happen where suddenly classical music becomes 10% of the industry. Industry. And that's something we have let happen as a culture. We've let it happen, um, as, as consumers, but we've also been, uh, very, very complicit, uh, and, and I think accelerated as, as classical musicians, you know. Um, it, it, it breaks my heart that, you know, a lot of musicians that I went to school with, um, I mean, this is like, we can talk about the, the non-musical benefits of being a well-earned musician And like a big one of them is people skills, right? Like classical musicians go off in a practice room and they work for hours and hours and hours by themselves to produce a product. And then they present that product in a place where they're not allowed to be human beings. They're not allowed to have opinions or have conversations or talk or much less improvise or experiment or try new things, right? And then they present that in an extraordinary fourth-wall stuffy environment, and people politely clap and never in between movements, and then they leave. And we wonder why, like, that's dying. Because I can go to a rock concert and I can feel a kick in my chest, right? I make this elemental connection with the people around me. We're all experiencing part of the same thing. There's a light show, right? There's like a setlist. Performers are directly connecting. I just, like, the first concert I saw when the regulations lifted was Brandi Carlile, right? So I went to our local big— and if you guys haven't seen Brandi Carlile or listened to Brandi Carlile, you should listen to Brandi Carlile. Brandi Carlile is an incredible singer and songwriter. She has a voice that, you know, as soon as she opens her mouth, it just makes you stop doing anything you're doing and listen. And she makes music with the Hanserath twins, so two identical twins who sing impeccable three-part harmony with her and play guitar and bass. And just, you know, being in an audience with about 6,000 people there and watching three musicians have 6,000 people in the palm of their hand— sorry, I have to edit myself— the entire time. You know, seeing people have amazing personable reactions, right? Seeing people cry, seeing people cheer, seeing people laugh. That's what it means to be an audience member when you're in music, right? Like, and to experience a concert. And we've gotten so incredibly far away from that experience. I'll leave you with one quick story. My wife and I are big hikers, and before all this, every year we'd go to Europe and do a big cross track. And a few years ago, we were in Italy, we were passing through Verona and realized, like, oh, if we stop a night in Verona, we can go see an opera, right? So we think about opera here and we go to the Met and it's incredibly stuffy affair and only the rich people go and we dress up and we hold our pinkies like that, and we leave right after the first intermission because we're bored and we want to go back to our apartment. So, opera there starts in the Verona Amphitheater, which is an ancient amphitheater where they used to do circus fights, and you're sitting on stone granite steps. They start the opera at around 9 o'clock, just as the sun is setting, Tickets are about $20. And, you know, at baseball games you have people selling like hot dogs. So those people are there, but they're selling glasses of wine and gelato and sandwiches. And you're hanging out and people are talking. Anytime there's an aria, people are yelling and screaming and clapping. It's this huge spectacle where they're like live horses walking on stage. At one point we saw Aida. At one point there's a choir of 16 harpists on stage. I mean, so it's this huge epic sports spectacle. Everyone knows the music, everyone has a connection to it, but also people are having conversations with their family in the middle of it, right? Like during the wretches when it's a little quiet, but then like, okay, uh, 20 extras are gonna go backstage, uh, behind the theater and light torches so that as the sun sets The torches are the lights for the stage. And everyone goes, wow, oh wow, how beautiful, right? Like, they are chiefly aware of making a spectacle and entertaining a large group of people. And they're being honest about that and open about that. And that was— I mean, we were up until 1:00 AM, and then we went with a bunch of Italians down at like the local bar and got drunk, right? And like, where is that experience in the States? It doesn't exist. And we don't have that connection. And I know it's— part of its culture, right? Like, we haven't maintained that culture. We're a new culture. We haven't carved that out for us. But that seems to me to be a very convenient excuse. I don't think classical musicians have frankly bothered to work hard enough to create those kinds of experiences or really have seen value in doing so. You know, like, most classical musicians I went to school with want to go, you know, to an annex of Carnegie Hall and play a concert for people who don't clap at between movements and put it on their resume. And like, we wonder why it's— honestly, like, the question I would pose, not the classical, like, why is classical music dying? It's like, why is— how have we been able to keep it alive for this long, you know?

So the classical music not being integrated into our daily lives in this, in this, in, in America, right? We're all Americans here, so we can talk about But so then, but when I used to live in Florida, my friends took me to a bluegrass concert or blues. And then the situation was completely different, as in people are really enjoying themselves, immersing themselves into music and clapping and enjoying their drinks outside. And really, so the music was so alive and the musicians were, directly communicating to the audience, and there was this amazing connections to one another. So, and then honestly, and Eric and Clara and I tried to do that last spring by doing the livestream concert, and I think classical musicians should do that sort of audience-engaging concerts more.

Yeah, and you know, and it's like, it's one of the— I absolutely agree. And it's one of those things, like, like anything else, you have to practice at doing it, and you have to suck at it, right? Like, the first time you're on stage and you're performing your own music and you have to like practice audience banter in between songs, like, you suck at it. You say stupid things, you say, um, there are weird changes. The first time you play with a guitarist, you're like, oh, Oh, they have to tune, and I now I have to fill time, right? Like, ah, you then you notice, like, you do this thing, you go to enough concerts, you go, oh, okay. It's like, have any of you, uh, seen like the same artist, um, multiple times? Like the same, like a commercial music artist perform at multiple times? You'll notice they tell the same stories. Their banter that seems very off the cuff is very planned, you know? And once you realize that, you're like, oh, okay, so that's what I need to do. I need to plan how to do that. I listened to a great podcast called The Working Songwriters Podcast that Joe Pug hosts, and he brings a lot of people on, and sometimes people who have had very long and distinguished careers. He asks a series of questions, and some of them are the same questions, but I really like it. It's a very, like, long-form deep dive about what it means to be an industry musician. And, you know, one of the things that always comes up is like every single one of those great musicians that are now part of acts that fill auditoriums have played bar gigs where there was literally no one in the bar. There were zero people there and they played an entire 2-hour set to no one.

Right.

It's like they've had those experiences and they've learned from them and they've grown from them. They've gone back and like, okay, here's what we need to do differently. Like, here's how we need to change it. Here's how we need to pound pavement, you know? Um, and I don't, I don't see that happening. And I think you're absolutely right. Like, great, we're gonna do a live stream and 3 of our friends are gonna show up. Okay, next time let's do better. What can we do differently? Can we do a sponsored post? Like, you know, when I do a gig, like, again, like, my— I try to gently, um, convince even my own classical colleagues who like know the crazy person that I am, you know, my institution, like, we'll do a piano faculty concert and like, we won't do a sponsored post and maybe we'll do a couple things on the website and like, maybe we'll do a press release in the newspaper that no one reads, and maybe 40 people will show up at the audience, you know, and they're mostly our friends. Like, when I do, I'm doing a Jackson Browne tribute next month. If you don't know Jackson Browne's music, you should know Jackson Browne's music. It's deeply incredible music. Uh, he's still making music. He's on tour right now. He just put out a record last year. He's 72 years old. He still sounds beautiful. Um, and, uh, he's a fabulous piano player, and some of the great session musicians of the last 40 years have been a part of his band. So, uh, it's like always been a dream of mine, right? So I put together this crazy 8-person band and we're all super invested in the material and have learned everything. Um, and we're doing our sort of first show and, you know, the venue is like intentionally small. It's only about 150 people. Um, and so like this is going to be our first run so that we can take it to Buffalo and Syracuse and different markets. Um, But like, we, uh, have already begun a presale, right? So every band member has 20 tickets that we're all responsible for, for moving to our friends, right? And then once that presale is done, like, we have 100 people that we know are going to show up to our concert. They've already committed financially. And then we're going to do radio spots, and then we're going to do, uh, Facebook, like, targeted ads. And then we're going to do a series of videos that we're going to release, right? It's like little teasers from rehearsals. And like, this is a whole thing that we do because all of us have done this thing before and we know what gets butts in seats, right? And we're all willing to do it. And so, you know, I'll play a classical concert and 40 people will be there and they'll like politely clap.

Yeah.

And then I'll leave and I'll be happy because I made music with good people, right? But I'll also feel sad that I couldn't make this moment happen. I couldn't bring people together to have a collective experience, right? And then I'll go to a venue where everyone's having a drink and a nice meal, and there'll be 150 people there, and it'll be packed, and it, you know, will smell like a concert, and people will cheer, and I'll play songs that have been the soundtrack to people's lives for 40 years.

Well, maybe we can just, we have to start to introduce drinks into classical concert.

I don't know. You know?

Yay. And then we are taking notes here, Josh. Sorry to interrupt. I actually, oh my gosh, this is such a wonderful conversation. You know, when you were talking about the experience you had in Europe, I just actually came back from a month-long Europe trip yesterday. And I flew in from Italy, but you know, with all the COVID restrictions, Everything is a little different. I was only able to go to one little outdoor concert, you know, smaller, quite similar, but with a different touch, you know. So I, as I'm— you're talking and I'm thinking, you know, this is something. I think it's not only that when we are— when you are talking with your friend responsible for these 20 tickets or something, sure, but that's also a skill that as musicians sometimes we just, we don't have, you know, like we go through institutions, we go through like our music schools. And I remember fondly, like I came here from China when I was 17, and I went to Kansas. And, you know, our concert hall is the same size as Carnegie Hall. And every single recital, I mean, it's booked every day, but every recital there's like maybe 50 people, you know, 100 people shows up. And I had to convince my mom to, come here from China to cook for everybody. So finally I had like 300 people show up in my— and it was like the most people, but I think it was really for her food. So I mean, with all that, and I'm curious to know, since we do all teach children, I, you know, over the years I have had some interesting ideas with how to approach, right, teaching children, like how to— I wouldn't want to say, you know, brainwash them, but I also want them to understand classical music is not just for old people, not just for grandparents, right? It's just something they can enjoy with their friends. So what is your philosophy on this? That's what I'm most curious. And what do you think the difference— like, if you were going to explain to a child what's the difference between, like, fine arts, classical fine art, versus entertainment, right? Because sometimes, like, the teenagers, they'd rather go to a BTS concert than go to Carnegie Hall, right? And what's your take on that?

Um, I don't make a distinction. So I, I'm very upfront with, with not only the, the college students I teach but the children I teach that I only teach music that I love, and I only teach music that sort of passes this test of being able to communicate something to me. And I know that seems really silly, but like Yeah, in a method book, I won't teach half the pieces in them because I don't think they have musical merit. You know, I don't want to play them. I don't want to sing them. And I don't ever play the duets that are written in the book because I can improvise ones that are better and more meaningful and more applicable to the student that I'm sitting in a room with.

Right.

So I don't make a distinction, you know, No distinction was ever made to me. I think the most important thing I can do is provide my students with a model of musicianship and provide them with access.

Right?

Like, I inherently believe, as I did as a kid, that like, oh, you know, come on. Like, you're going to hear a Chopin nocturne and like, not, not like reach someplace in someone's heart, like their 17-year-old breakup with their first girlfriend. It hits you in this place that's deeply, fundamentally emotional and accessible, you know, and that music, for all the complexity we give to it, is incredibly simple music. It's a beautiful melody with great chord changes. It's a pop song. I mean, that's what Chopin is, you know, it's a melody that's great that you hear over and over again. And we make this, I think, this like really early on, this completely arbitrary, unnecessary an elitist distinction between classical music and all other types of music. So, you know, the first thing I get to do with my students, you know, obviously with COVID I haven't met new students in a while and young students, but like I get to know what they like and what they listen to and what they love. And I get to sort of like gently steer that, which is an incredible responsibility as a teacher. You know, I can, I can open a door to music. And I've been doing this long enough that I think some of my— some of the things that I'm most proud about with students I've worked with, I just got coffee with a student who's finishing up at Tisch as a filmmaker. And I taught her piano from the time she was 7 years old, right? And she's like, of course, become this just beautiful, amazing human being. But like, she's sitting here just sort of casually telling me like what she's been listening to and what she's going to concerts to. And we're talking about, you know, we're talking just like free flow, talking about classical music and talking about R&B and talking about Kendrick Lamar and talking like all the concerts she's been to since she's been in the city. And I'm like, this is all stuff I love. Like, she's like, yeah, you're the reason, like, I love music. Like, I listen to music all the time because of you, because of the things that we did in lessons. You know, and like, who cares if she never plays piano again? Like, if she is— if music is a narrative to her life, um, then I've done something good. Yeah. No, um, so yeah, I mean, I know that's a very like, uh, uh, obnoxious answer to your very simple question, but, um, but I think it, you know, even like in those— when I teach pedagogy, it's, it's a It's a point I make that, like, this is your opportunity to broaden and not restrict what music is or is not, um, and you need to take that, that opportunity very seriously, you know.

This concludes part 1 of our interview with Josh Massico. Tune in next time to hear about some of Josh's own artistic influences, his advice for young musicians, and his thoughts on creating a more musical society.