Season 2 Episode 7: BLKBOK--Neo-Classical Pianist, Composer, & Yamaha Artist

You're listening to The Piano Pod, where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry about how they're bringing the piano into the 21st century.

Welcome back to The Piano Pod, the podcast for piano lovers. I am Yukimi Song.

I'm Clara Jung.

Clara and I are both classical pianists and piano teachers from New York City, and this podcast is for anyone who plays the piano for fun, loves listening to the piano music, or anyone who currently pursuing a career in piano or works in the industry professionally, or anyone who is simply curious about the world of piano music.

In each episode, we interview a guest speaker who has been breaking exciting new ground in the music industry. Before getting started, we want to thank all of our listeners for tuning in today. Please take a moment to rate our show or review on Apple Podcasts. Because every rating and review will help people find our show.

Since the last episode, we have been inviting a guest co-host to assist us during the show. So Clara, since today's co-host is your former piano student at UMass Amherst, you have the honor of introducing him to the audience.

That's right. I'm happy to do that.

Oh my gosh.

Hi, Ray. Our guest co-host of today needs no introduction to the YouTube audience and the TPP fans. He is a YouTube sensation, an ambassador of Yamaha Music Malaysia, and one of the most prolific creators of musical covers. He shares his passion by making piano covers for his favorite songs and songs requested by his fans. Played solely by ear, he had covered a whole range of genres from pop to rock and even rap, all on the piano. And very recently, his full stage name made it to the Urban Dictionary. All right, wow! He was also our guest speaker of our— the 5th episode in the previous season, season 1, which we live broadcasted the interview for the very first time. Uh, it is my pleasure to present my former student and dear friend, YouTube sensation Mr. Reemac!

Welcome back, Ray! Thank you, thank you, thank you for being here, uh, Zooming in from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, as our co-host. And so the last time we spoke was through your episode, and then it was actually almost exactly a year ago, right before Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving, yeah, actually today we're taping today, uh, it's a Thanksgiving Wednesday, the pre-Thanksgiving day. Yeah, so tell us what you've been up to since then, Ray.

I'll be reaching 400,000 subscribers as of today.

Oh my God, on YouTube?

On YouTube?

Congratulations, because remember last year you was— we— I remember 300,000, right? Wow, congratulations.

Oh my gosh, that will be, yeah, a dream come true one day. Oh my gosh.

And tell me a little bit of, of the process.

So for music, it's usually a little bit slow because music is considered a niche, you know, because on YouTube nowadays people love things like prank and movie reviews, you know, those kind of things. So music, it really rely on the personality of the person and rely on how crazy the fans are. So recently, fortunately and unfortunately, during the pandemic a lot more people are on YouTube, okay? A lot more people are on YouTube, so people are starting to watch YouTube streams instead of live performances. So from there, I get to grow a lot more, and there are a lot more younger fans because my YouTube have been on YouTube for the past 15 years or more, okay? And a lot of my audience, they have already grown. They are now grown-ups, with adults, with kids, with families.

You remember some of your— my old students you came to see?

Yeah, yes.

With kids now, I'm like, oh my gosh.

Exactly. A lot of Clara's students, they are like either dating or even like with kids and stuff, you know what I mean? So, uh, but because of the pandemic, I, I start to, uh, broaden the horizon. So I, I get to have a lot of new fans from all age groups and many different countries. And because everyone is affected by the pandemic, so a lot of people are on YouTube as well. So it kind of helped me grow a lot faster.

And among all of that, you also had the second baby.

Yeah, yes, pandemic baby.

Wow, he is so adorable, that little, little round face. Oh, he's so beautiful. He's now— how old is he?

About 8 months old. And the older one is, uh, and the older one is 3 years old, so turning 4 next year.

Oh, what a cute age. Yeah, yeah. So as I was watching again some of your video clips you know, and others posted by your fans tagging your name and see how excited your fans get when you respond to their comments and etc. And reminded me what musicians ought to be, right? And through music you're engaging with your audience, you're— how you're connecting with— connecting to people with— through music. And people love you and you love them back. Even you love them when they hate you, they leave a really negative comment. So that's quite incredible.

Well, that's why we want to invite you back, and this time as a co-host. And because in so many ways you and our guest of the episode have so much in common, you know, how you both engage with your audience through music by using digital platforms and social media very positively. Ray, please help us ask some fun questions today during the interview with our guest Bach, Black Bach.

Yes, definitely.

Awesome.

So we are very excited to introduce our guest of this episode, lucky number 7, Mr. Black Bach, who is a neoclassical pianist, composer, and has worked as a lead pianist and musical director with A-list pop singers such as Rihanna, Justin Timberlake, Demi Lovato, and John Mayer. Sharing the stage with the world's biggest performers, Mr. Blackbuck channels his experience through his explosive and immersive live music performances and engages his audience with his incredible talent. He recently released a new album, Black Book, a compilation of his original piano pieces inspired by the Black Lives Matter movement and the 2018 film Green Book. This critically acclaimed debut album was released on June 18th of this year, honoring Juneteenth and Black Music Appreciation Month in June. Besides his debut album, his first mixtape release, cover art, and current mixtape project, Angels Watching Over Me, with world-renowned tenor Lawrence Brownlee, illustrate the innovative, disruptive musical landscape. Mr. BlackBlock is also very active on social media and creates fun and engaging content for his fans. He has over 30,000 followers on TikTok and 21,000 followers on Instagram. He was recently named as a Yamaha artist added to their classical piano roster, of which there are only 125 Yamaha artists worldwide. Here we are to interview and discuss our favorite topic, which is music, with our guest, Mr. BlackBlock. Yay! Thank you so much. Welcome!

That was so good. Like, wow, that was mind-blowing.

No, you, you are mind-blowing. Yeah, thank you so much for coming, and, um, thank you for being here on Thanksgiving Eve.

Oh, thank you for having me.

How are you? Yeah, great. So where are you actually tuning in from?

I'm in Las Vegas.

Oh, Vegas?

Yeah.

Are you originally from— uh, no, you're from Detroit.

Detroit, yes.

I remember seeing a show there, or—

no, live here now.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

A lot of YouTubers are going there. That's amazing.

That's great. So, but I saw you've been traveling quite a bit. You were in Florida, I think?

Yeah, just this past weekend. I performed for the National Astronaut Hall of Fame. First performer ever for the Hall of Fame, which is—

Wow.

And fortunately, I wrote a song called Stars, which I performed. I debuted there. And this song is going on a spaceship to space in February. Oh wow, it's on the playlist for one of the astronauts. His name is Michael Alegria, and he's the commander that's taking the first commercial flight into space in February. And he texts me and asks for the song to put on his playlist. Wow, wow, this is incredible.

Thank you.

I was going to space. I had one, the Goldberg narration, I believe. Oh my Oh my God, with Glingu's version back in the days, you know, NASA, when NASA first was going to do this. Wow, now another Bach is going to space. See, I always say there's some connection between Bach and space.

Wow, congratulations, congratulations indeed. So you spoke, you know, you just said you're from, uh, you're tuning in from Las Vegas. Actually, you know, the The way I found you was through Las Vegas origin Alexandria Lee. She was our guest a couple episodes ago, and she was an excellent guest. And she is also— yeah, she's also an Onyama artist, right? And then— and she's like, toward the end of the interview, she's like, you guys, you should check him out.

Like, we're like, who?

And his name is BlackBlock, B-L-K-B, okay? I was like, okay. So I looked you up. And first thing I saw was on your Instagram post, and it was the song by Cardi B, Up. Yeah, from your mixtape.

Yeah.

Wow. You know what? Honestly, I was like so blown away because I've been telling my students, hey, you guys, if you want to play Bach, sure. If you want to play, you know, Justin Timberlake, sure. But you cannot play hip-hop on the piano. I was wrong. I was wrong. I am so sorry. Yeah, yeah, but it was just a mixture of this classical style of arpeggios and everything, and with that beat, I was so— my mind was so blown away. Yeah, it was a very fun arrangement. Anyway, so yeah, I just want to ask, we want to ask you, so where does this your stage name Black Box come from?

Yeah, um, well, uh, the second half of it is something that my dad used to say, and he always says, "Everything will be okay, but you gotta be okay with everything." So half of it, the name is the acronym for, you know, a saying that—

be okay—

everything will be okay, no matter what happens, everything will be okay.

I love that.

Um, and then, you know, the connection to Johann Sebastian and like Oh wow, it all kind of just made sense, right?

Yeah, such a perfect, perfect name for you. And, and also, as we were like reading your bios and articles, we noticed that you mentioned yourself neoclassical pianist. So can you tell us what neoclassical is?

Okay, so neo— the neo part can be anything. Yeah, so, you know, when I started to write And one of the things that I've never done, I've never taken composition classes. I've never— I studied piano only from age 4 to 16 with a— only, only. Yeah, I didn't go to a conservatory. I didn't study beyond high school.

That's quite long.

Yeah, so then, you know, yeah, exactly. So I mean, I got a great foundation, this classical foundation, and then it kind of skewed into these other things like Around age 16 or 17, I started playing a lot of jazz, and then in the college I started playing a little bit more jazz, and then, you know, pop tours and all these other things. And I was always a hip-hop kid, and I was a producer, and I love making beats. So it's kind of like the neo part is the bucket where you dump everything else in the genre. All the other genres go in this bucket, but it kind of sits on this base of classical music.

Classical.

Yeah.

Wow, that's a very beautiful explanation because I was wondering, oh, neo-classical, could it Could it mean new? Yes, because neo can mean, neo can mean like a lot of things. So neoclassical, I was like, is it neoclassical? But your explanation makes it like even more colorful, you know. I was like, wow.

Yeah, it's a lot of things. It's just the blending of genres. I think that's one of the things that's really important as we keep moving on as musicians, is that, you know, these lines are— we kind of blend these lines up. It's so, it's so creative to to kind of see what someone else is doing and say, oh, let me grab a piece of that. Or, you know, it is— yeah, it's super incredible. Like, it's so inspiring to, to kind of blend the genres that way.

And since we're talking about this neoclassical— sorry, you can meet— but it's okay. I'm just curious, what work— what kind of pieces were you working on when you were a child? You said 4 to 16, which, you know, only—

I played the Bach Inventions. I played You know, Beethoven. The last, I think the last piece I studied was Beethoven, uh, Sonata Pathétique. Um, I played a lot of Debussy.

Wow, you had a good teacher.

Yeah, you were really— yeah, well, my teacher, and this is a lot of— this is one of the things you guys would understand, but a lot of other people don't understand. Um, his name was Thomas Schwartz, and he was married to a lady named Eleanor Lipkin. Now, Eleanor Lipkin was the sister of Seymour Lipkin. From the Curtis Institute. So all of this, it's kind of this overarching, you know, like these amazing, great pianists were kind of connected in a way. Of course. And Mr. Schwartz could have totally been, I mean, world-renowned. I mean, he was so incredible, but he just had a little bit more— his focus was— my sister, who's a year older than me, is also a pianist.

Oh wow.

Yeah, actually she's a physicist, but that's, you know, something else.

Wow.

But he had a major investment on his students, and that's where his energies went, as opposed to just being, you know, the main guy.

So since you're, you know, talking about your training, so can you tell us your childhood, how you started your piano journey, and yeah, maybe some anecdotes with the piano, piano journey, piano lessons. Yeah, fun stuff. Yes.

Okay, first piano lesson with Thomas Schwartz. I was sitting there and my mother was there, and I was 4 years old, 4 years old, and he's showing me things and I'm just going like this, I'm all over the place. And my mother took me outside and she grabbed me by the arm. Oh my God, you don't take this lesson, I'm gonna kick your blank. And she sent me back in.

I'm her mama.

She sent me back in and, you know, C major scale. So it was that.

You sure you don't have an Asian mama?

I don't know, she may be a little bit. But another thing I remember from coming up as a pianist was I was playing a Mozart sonata. I think I was maybe 8 or 9 or 10. And I performed it and I stood up and I took my bow and I walked off stage. And as I was walking off stage, I went, whew! And the whole audience just erupted in laughter. Because they could totally understand that this little kid was up there, I mean, just like, you know, just going crazy. And they just— and they got it. And from that moment, I knew I wanted to be an entertainer. I was like, there's something that— they were connected to me in a way that I didn't know. And that was the first time I felt an audience actually, like, link in to what I was doing or what I was performing. And from that point, it's just been— it's been— I've been locked into being an entertainer.

That's so amazing.

That's so beautiful.

Exactly. I actually had a question later on, but you already answered it. I was going to ask, you know, what age did you just have that moment? You're just like, that's it, you know?

Yeah, that's it.

That's beautiful.

There's another moment that we, we can go address that. There's another moment where I decided I wanted to tour. It's kind of crazy. This is a really crazy story. So I was about maybe 15, and my jazz instructor, his name was Teddy Harris, and he was the musical director for Martha and the Vandellas. For the Motown era. And it was the first tour, or first time I'd ever been out of town with an artist, was with Martha and Evandela. I was 15 years old. We went to Boston. In that same— and this is, this is pretty crazy, you know, I'm gonna say this, but I'm gonna caution, this is a little, little touchy. So in that trip, I had been offered sex, I had been offered drugs, and then two of the band members got into a crazy fight And then Martha pulled me in the room. She said, baby, I'm so sorry you had to see that, but here's your money. And she gave me an envelope of money. And I was like, oh my God, I want to do this for the rest of my life. Like, this is so cool. This is so cool. I was in. That was just like the craziest— like, my first experience was the crazy experience. So from then I was like, this is the life.

This is it.

You know, it was like a pirate's life for me. It was just like, I'm in.

Wow, very different.

Yeah, very different story.

Yeah, I kind of want to know what's like to work with A-listers. I mean, come on, Rihanna, Timberlake. I mean, Justin Timberlake. I, I love Justin Timberlake. Um, and, uh, uh, who else? Uh, John Mayer. So what was it like?

Oh, I'll start with Justin. Most amazing, um performer I've had the pleasure of sharing the stage with. He is the ultimate entertainer, not to mention he has the ears of a hawk. He hears and sees and notices everything. He's all about small details, and that's what makes his shows and his performances what they are. I can remember the first time we met, I sat down and played Chopin for him. And wow, he sat there and he listened. And then when I was done, he said, "And how old are you?" I was like, "Dude, I'm 21." He's like, "Dude, you play like you're 50." And he walked away. And that was our first interaction. And from that point, we were just like, like locked in. Like, wow, knew that I understood what he was trying to accomplish and I was there to give my best performance. I always say Part of the reason why I've had the resume I have is because when I go on stage, people understand and they know and they can trust that I am there 150%. And there have been days when he wasn't having a great day, and it was kind of like, you know, I give him that, you know, like that, let's go, bro, let's do it, let's go. And it would give him just that energy and that boost to continue on. Same with Rihanna. There's a video on YouTube. It's kind of hidden in the depths of YouTube, but, um, where we perform the song "Love the Way You Lie," and I get on the piano, and then the piano goes up like 50 feet in the air, and then it spins with she and I on it, and she sits on the piano top. And right in one of the breaks, I always, like, to the beat, I always hit the piano, boom, boom, and it would just get her like, you know, she would just go into like Super Saiyan mode or something. She would just get completely hyped. And that was one of the things that I can say about my career is that I understood my job. I knew I was there to support their vision. And even with John Mayer, a lot of times we talked about, you know, where you place yourself within a band setting. My thing for him was always to create the perfect ground and foundation because he's such a player. All you have to do is give him something to stand on. And then he just dances around on it. So the idea was just to give it just enough to make him feel like the foundation was sturdy. And it's just been a lot of that, just really, really understanding how to support each artist. Demi Lovato was a little bit different. I did a tour, the last tour I did was called Michael Jackson Immortal with Cirque du Soleil.

Oh, okay.

That tour was absolutely life-changing. Um, it was after Michael passed away, but this was the tour he was designing before he passed away. And, uh, 4 of the musicians in the band were his musicians from tours, from past tours. And every day the multitracks were the multitracks from his audio, from his studio recordings.

Wow.

So it was almost like being in Pop Music 101, like, right? I went through pop music college. Michael Jackson. Like, every day I was saying, turn Michael up, he's doing something I didn't hear yesterday. Every day was a new thing I would hear. Exactly why he is the great musician that he is.

He's the greatest. I'm sorry to say. Yes, you know, honestly, uh, I went to Michael Jackson's live concert twice in Tokyo. Be jealous, be jealous. Yes, I was a teenager, I was a teenager. And yeah, I got so lucky. I mean, at that time, I, you know, obviously I never knew he would pass away so, so young, but, um, yeah, so I was a huge fan of Michael Jackson. I knew every single song, and I used to have this cassette tape with the Sony Walkman. And yeah, yeah, it's a— it's just a sensational— he was a sensational figure for me.

Well, I'm curious, you know, sometimes when I think about— so for me, you know, I grew up in China originally, and I went to the— I was not really conservatory trained in the very beginning. You know how in China everybody, like, I mean, the Lan Lan generation, right? So everybody start training at 2 years old, and I was told not to be a musician, and so I was just kind of play around, and then Somehow got into the conservatory when I was 11, and I remember this kid who was— I think he's a violinist in Berlin now, but he was so into Michael Jackson. He was like always dancing on stage, and then actually that really inspired me to get really better with rhythm. So, but this pop music or hip-hop, these are all very new to me. And then I moved to Kansas when I was 17, And I remember some of my friends were like, oh, you gotta listen to these, you know. I was like, nope, I'm just— I only listen to Bach. Maybe once in a while I'll listen to some Chopin, but you know, mostly just— so, but for you, how— but you know, now especially this time doing the interview with you, I was so curious, and then my students were like so excited for me, you know. So I was like looking up, and your videos You are really a— how do I word it? You know, sure, coming from a classical musician, sometimes we do have a little bit of stereotype, right? Like, we do think of classical music being more serious than other genres, like even jazz. I, you know, didn't even think— but for your music, I was so attracted to your playing, you know, and I was showing to my students, like, You can just tell you have such solid foundation. You're not faking anything. Right. True. You know, Raven, I say he was my student, but really he had already played really well and he just didn't learn to read.

I can only play by ear.

Right.

He played everything by ear. And then when I was teaching all these piano minor students, he was like, Clara, can I go into your class? And he was such a good student. He was like, always get the homework done. I was like, this is not like, you know, this is not joking around, kid.

Right, right.

So I really see the two of you had some connection. But how was it for you, like the transition when you were trying all of a sudden you're going from classical to jazz and then now you're playing with Timberlake? How was it like?

The transitions were not easy, especially the first one. The first one, from classical to jazz, was so very difficult.

I know.

I mean, literally going from reading music to creating music, like improvising. And the only thing that I can say is that the technique is the same everywhere you go. Yeah, technique is always the same. And that has been the one saving grace for me throughout every genre, is that, um, even with when there were things that were difficult for, say, Justin Timberlake or Backstreet Boys or Rihanna. Like, I had my technique to fall back onto, and it was, you know, it would be something where I'd say, okay, I got it, you know. I would spend just a couple minutes like recalibrating how I could actually play this in a way that was, you know, um, tasteful. And it was always the technique that, that was the thing that I could fall back on. It was so amazing to have it. And then, like I say, the transition between classical and jazz was very difficult. I remember my piano instructor, Teddy, he gave me a piece that he had actually written all the manuscript for. And he gave it to me and he said, "Go home," he said, "just play it how you feel it. Don't play it exactly how it is, you know, play it how it is on the music, but if you feel something, don't be afraid to go off the path." And that was the first time someone had given me permission that's right, to go off the path.

That's right.

And I came back the next week and I had a couple of different things that I played, and he says, "I didn't even think of that. That's so cool." Like, um, and, and it was very much my ear, like, to, you know, like Ray, it was very much my ear that I was relying on at this point. Now it's just been, you know, from that point it just became, let me see what how I can express myself without the music. Let me take a piece of the music and then learn to express myself using that. So a lot of things I would take would be like excerpts from different pieces, like an excerpt from, like I said, Debussy. I would take an excerpt and I'd be like, okay, this is pretty cool. How can I make this different? So that was kind of the first, like I said, departure from classical music. Into what has now grown into this bucket of everything on top.

Yeah, the neoclassical.

Neoclassical, yeah.

Yeah.

So I'm curious, I'm saying the students that hopefully a lot of them will be listening, always practice the scales, right? That was also one thing Alessandra was saying. Always practice your scales. You can always fall back on the technique.

It's funny because I have to reach out to her after the holiday and say, Alexandria, let's— can you get me back on scales? Because I have been on scales, but I want more. Like, I still want— she's such a, such an accomplished pianist. Like, it would be advantageous for me to sit down and have some time with her and say, you know, teach me something. And that's one of the things that I've always been, is hungry for knowledge. Like, I'm always like, teaching.

Yeah, yeah, we should do a scale challenge.

Not me, I'm good. I'm good. But it's funny, I'm actually learning to do jazz right now, and I thought, oh, I am an advanced— you know, I play in the classical concert, so jazz, it's just a, you know, a few bunch of chords I have to learn. But boy was I wrong. It's a completely different language.

Yes, absolutely.

The way you think Yeah, it's so different. The way you think of music is completely different. Forget about all the traditions that you learned except for the technique, as you mentioned.

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

So I am, I'm struggling. I'm really—

yeah, it's, it's funny because it's like all the, all the traditions, it's like these are the rules, and then when you get to jazz, it's like break all the rules, right?

Yeah.

A lot of parallels that you hear, it's like that was no, no, no in classical.

Right.

But that's totally okay. And that blew my mind. And even the inversions, they don't call it inversion, they did something else. And it's all mathematics. You have to think in numbers. Yeah, you have to think in numbers. So yeah, yeah.

Actually, Jim Riddle, your teacher, he became my friend. He did the Bach recital and it was in this classical concert, yet he's a jazz musician. He's a jazz pianist. You know, what we all know in New York area. And I was like, so blown away. I was like, yeah, my God, you know?

Right. But I think, you know, nowadays more and more people want to have this, I don't know, interdisciplinary or like mix of, okay, I, my background is classical, but actually I love hip-hop, or I, my background is this country, or this, this is my identity. And now more than ever, I feel like just things are kind of coming together, or you can just pick. I have this background, but I love this sound because that really speaks to me, and that's becoming like a normal or more like a popular, and I think it's awesome, right?

Do you play any Bach, Ray?

You see, when it comes to ears, it's very difficult to pick up things from like classical. It's difficult. It's really difficult.

I remember you used to pick up things from Mozart, right?

Yeah. Even the easiest Mozart, it will take me like many, many like weeks to pick up what are the notes that are in it. So it's not easy. So I really envy you guys who have like a very strong classical foundation, especially Bach, because you, you are able to bring your classical foundation into all the different genres like hip-hop and other things. And when we are listening to your music, we can still feel the classical in it, you know what I mean? Yeah, that is the thing that makes you, your music, very different from like if you are a true hip-hop pianist or true classical pianist, because you're able to combine the two. So it's kind of like you are having fish and chips and a side dish of lobsters.

I thought you were going to say kimchi.

Sign me up.

Sign me up.

It's very rich, you know what I mean? Yeah.

One of the things that a lot of people don't know, and this is probably the first time I would ever say this in an interview because I trust you guys. You are exactly part of the family.

Yay!

Um, yay! I also am slightly dyslexic, so reading music was always very difficult for me and still is. Even reading books was difficult for me. So even now, and you know, some, some people can put a piece up— like my piano teacher, Schwartz, could put up anything and then he would just read it. And I'm like, how do you do that? For me, it's a very slow process. It's a very like You know, one measure— of course, one measure at a time, one hand at a time, but still it's very like— the process is— it has been— it hasn't been easy. Like, my sister, for instance, is reader all day long. She can just do it. And then for me, it's like that a little bit of a challenge to get it done. So I would say to anybody who's studying and has and faces certain challenges, don't give up. Let that be your driving force. Let that be the thing that says, you know what, no matter what happens, I'm going to get through this piece. Even if it takes me 10 years, I'm going to get through this.

And you see, in a way, that is actually maybe the force that brought you to this very unique zone that most people, classical musicians— yeah, I have friends that can read so well that sometimes they probably would never even think about this. So that's— so sometimes life is funny. And then, you know, that actually also makes me think about you and Ray, that the similarities. Like, Ray, you can tell your story, right? But I believe you said it's because you had poor eyesight at one point because of too much video game playing.

Yeah, video games and comics and all those things. So I end up— I can't read the notes.

And then that's how he started to play by ear, you know.

So which is, which is funny, right? Because I saw your version of Squid Game, and that's on my list of things to cover in the next week. Yeah, yeah, I got totally inspired by you, dude.

Like, you—

it's so good. Like, it's so good, that whole thing that you do.

Like, yeah, that's what I'm gonna do for this Thanksgiving break.

Yeah, yeah, that's great. And on the in Internet is very different because we express ourselves not only in the music but in the video as well. So if you notice, my Squid Game is like silly and funny, you know what I mean? Exactly.

I love your outfit too. Yeah, I'm a little bit scared to watch it, you know, everybody having all these.

So you guys have this, you know, common thing where you have this big followers on social media. So yeah, let's talk about it then. As I mentioned in the introduction, you know, Bok, you have TikTok account and then 30,000 followers and Instagram 21,000. So, and Ray, you have, as we mentioned, you have 400,000 followers on YouTube currently and you just hit 400,000.

Yeah, I just hit 400,000. Thank you.

Urban Dictionary. Oh my God.

Yes, I know his name, full name, Ray Mack, is on Urban Dictionary. So, so, so it's a matter of how you are engaging the audience, how you are interacting with the audience. So tell us, both of you, just talk, talk to each other. We'll be just listening.

So, well, social media is very much a trial and error. Place. The first thing that you have to do is you try, you throw everything at the wall, and then something sticks, and you go, oh, that stuck, let me go do a bunch of that. So then it becomes a thing of doing, you know, exercising that muscle and continuing that process and creating and finding interesting and cool ways to create within that same lane that you've created. Um, So I'm sure, Ray, you definitely know that's how it happens. You know, it's one day you do something and it catches and you just keep doing similar things.

Yeah, but at times we got to do a few times, like for example, maybe a series of things then to see whether it works or not. If I just do it maybe once or twice, we may not be able to see the growth. But if let's say I continue to do like a series, maybe like 20 episodes of the same thing, and it may blow up like after some time. And the internet is very weird because sometimes our old videos will suddenly just blow up, especially nowadays with the help of TikTok.

Absolutely. It's incredible. Like, you can have a video that you posted, you know, months ago and wake up one day and you're like, whoa, like, all these people have viewed it. Wow, this is okay. I guess we had something here. We didn't know that, that it happened. And it's, it's like that. I mean, even, even if we're talking about like Squid Game, I think the writer for Squid Game had written it years and years.

Yeah, I think like, yeah, many years ago.

Yeah, like 2016.

Yeah, yes, yes, exactly.

And he pitched it to every, every network and no one took it.

No one wants it.

No one wanted it. And then all of a sudden You know, we go through a pandemic, everybody's sitting at home still, kind of, and he has the number one TV show in the world. So, you know, you never know when that viral moment or that one thing that you've created will catch. It's just a matter of continuing to do, you know, what it is. I have one of the— the head of my label explained it like this. He said it's like a bag of chips. He said, if you put— you, you know, somebody gets in and give them a bag of chips and they eat one, And then they go back, if they have another one, they'll eat another. So you have to constantly give them something to pull from. And if you don't give them something to pull from, they go on to the next. It's so fast. So, you know, kind of understanding that language and understanding that the internet is a place where you have to hook people very quickly. I mean, a matter of seconds, you have to hook them. So if you can kind of optimize what you're doing or how you're performing or what you're playing or how you're playing it or the look of it, or the feel of it or the way it's shot. There's so many different techniques and tactics to make interesting and engaging content.

I mean, that's so interesting. I have so many ideas. My mind is so— because I actually just found out from Ray a couple of weeks ago that TikTok— and so TikTok is technically a Chinese app, right? But in China they call it Douyin. Right, right. Is that how they call it? So there's two versions, one for, uh, people in mainland China, uh, and, uh, but everybody, like, we can open it, everybody can open it. But, and then the other one is TikTok, which I think both of them is the same meaning, right? Douyin means TikTok, I believe. Yeah, I don't have any of them because my mother apparently is a Douyin or TikTok, like, um Uh, yeah, she's kind of like a— some sort of like a small influencer. Uh, she is like in her 60s, she does modeling, and she has a lot of fans. And then my 12-year-old niece is also like a— so I was like, you know what, let's separate our social media. It's better that you don't see my Instagram and stuff, right? But then I finally realized, oh, the Stowe Eden TikTok are so different. So I want to ask you, Buck, do you promote yourself in Asia or do you promote internationally through these different platforms?

I would love to say that people internationally are watching my videos. If I would say, am I specifically targeting international audiences, I would say no, but I would love to. That's definitely getting my wheels turning right now.

Hey, maybe our show is going to change that.

Maybe this is the moment.

You never know.

You know, this is that moment.

So, you know, I would love to, to, to channel more, um, international audiences. First of all, in my travels, I love traveling abroad. There is nothing better to me than going to a new place and experiencing a new culture, new people, new language, new everything. There was actually a tradition that I did years ago with my ex-girlfriend where we, every Thanksgiving, ironically we would leave the United States and go and travel somewhere based on cuisine. Oh my God, so one year I would say ramen, and then we would go— the next year I would say pizza and pasta, and we would go to Italy. Like, it was— and it's the perfect time because international travel is cheap during Thanksgiving. Yeah, because domestic travel is expensive, right?

Very expensive, right?

So, and most in this season, most, most countries are kind of like, this is a very very cool, very relaxed season for them. So like I said, I hope this opens up more to international audiences. And yes, I will come see you, and yes, I will come play for you. And I think it's amazing.

Dream come true. Yeah, yeah, let's all go to Malaysia.

Malaysia, yeah.

It's also part of Yamaha, right?

You're the ambassador of Yamaha Malaysia, Billy.

Oh yeah, we definitely have to do something.

We're all going to Yamaha.

Yeah, yeah, that's correct. Wow. So, you know, speaking of TikTok, I saw one very funny TikTok post that you made. It's the Holy Spirit one.

That's right. I love that.

That was really— that cracked me up so badly. It was taken out of this lady. I think she became a meme or something. And then the way you put together the rhythm beat and then music and all the visuals. Wow, that was genius.

Yeah, that's amazing. This guy, his name is iMarquise and another guy named Remix God, and they do these memes of people and they create these funny videos. And I've always been wanting to be on their radar. You know, I love what these guys do. So it just was the perfect opportunity. Um, the lady that actually sang, that did the Holy Spirit Activate, was—

she's—

her name is China Phillips from the group Wilson Phillips from way like back in the '90s. Yeah, she was on Family Feud and with Steve Harvey, and she just did— yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was just the perfect moment. I love what they did as far as the beat was concerned, so it was just a matter of me kind of tacking on what I do on the piano with it all. And the video was amazing, so I was just like, this is going to be fun.

Wow.

You created all these by yourself? Like, do you—

so these are all collaborations with other content creators. So they did— one did the video, another one did the beat, and then I came along and did the piano.

Wow. And how do you connect with other, uh, I guess, influencers or content creators? Do you guys—

yeah.

Really?

DMs, it's so easy. I love— that's what I love about that.

Exactly.

And just trust everyone because the reason I've been asking, you know, like I have my studio and I'm technically still considered to be a millennial generation, but you know, I'm like Mark Zuckerberg generation, right? So I'm not young on that age, but so I think I'm quite okay, but I think Yukimi is actually much better than me, you know, when it comes to like Thanks for telling me I am old. No, no, I'm just saying because as a classical musician, we're always told not to use the phone. You know, like, my teacher is always like, you should just get rid of your phone and just like, you know, and a lot of my classical musicians, doesn't matter, they could be 10 years younger than me and they don't do anything because they're just like, you should lock yourself in the practice room and just practice, practice.

Yeah, I think it's a very classical thing.

Yeah, exactly. And you know, like, Most of my friends, they're like, oh, I have an iPhone, but I only use it as, uh, for— I know how to do FaceTime. I'm like, that's great. Not to say that's not a good thing. So I'm always trying to— I'm curious, how do you like find the time? Or like, you know, I have a lot of people actually writing to me on DM. I never answer because I'm so, you know, worried it's gonna take too much time, or if it's a scam, you know.

It's very much planning out how you're using your time. If I'm practicing, I'll say I'll practice for like 2 or 3 hours, and then I'll say I'm gonna spend an hour doing replies, and I'll just sit with my phone and I'll do replies for an hour. And then, you know, um, one of the things that we do, like, my manager and I, we literally talk like 7 or 8 times a day. It's so crazy, like, throughout the day, because it's always something you know, something happening, new things coming in, new things happening. So, um, I also do this thing where I go on airplane mode. Like, I love putting my phone on airplane mode and just disconnecting from it all and connecting with the instrument, you know, and like really, really taking the time to focus on, um, a lot of times, you know, uh, learning new things, fixing old things, um, and improving on what's already there. So, um, it's very much time management. Like, definitely there's— there are moments when you're doing social media stuff, like tonight, or I mean tomorrow. Tomorrow is Thanksgiving, yes, but I still have 2 pieces of content to shoot tomorrow. So I know that, you know, this is part of my day, um, regardless of what happens. So yeah, it's just— it's just a very much time management.

Yeah, managing— yeah, managing social media is all about that. Yeah, it's hard. It's hard to keep up, and you can't let it get overwhelming.

That's one of the things that I see people— the, the, the problem with social media is that people get too consumed in it, and you have to understand, guilty, guilty. It's a tool. It is strictly a tool for you to connect and present your work to a greater audience. And then get insights and see what other people are doing and, you know, be inspired. Like, I always keep my Instagram— a lot of people, you know, they kind of get mad at me like, oh, you're not following me. I'm saying, well, I use my Instagram as my vision board. I use it as my inspiration board. So if I'm scrolling, I want to be inspired as I'm scrolling. So if you have pictures of your cat, that's not doing it for me. Yeah, I love you, but I don't want to see like, yeah, your food that you ate last week. I don't want to see that. Like, it's, it's not helping me in any way.

It's noise.

Yeah, it's noise as opposed to, you know, things that—

inspiration, right, right, right. Gotcha, gotcha. Oh, I'm learning, you know, but it's sometimes it's hard. Sometimes I can't help, uh, uh, posting my croissant in the morning, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But anyways, so now we just, uh, want to go to the next topic, which is obviously we're all going through this difficult pandemic right now. And as a live performer, you know, you performed with all the singers, and I'm sure it affected so much, right? So can you tell us about that? Maybe during that time you had some I don't know, we, we all have some wake-up, wake-up call and also new project. But I mean, this is the reason I— we started this podcasting. So yeah, can you tell us a little bit about your—

which is so inspiring, and part of that, I did the same thing. Um, right before the pandemic hit, my publisher at the time says— gave me a call and he says, uh, Charlie, you should do a solo piano album. And I literally said on the phone, Billy, what in the blank does that mean? And he said, you know, he gave me a bunch of things and he said, you'll figure it out. And he hung up the phone. So a couple of days later, he sent me a post from this marketing guru, this guy's name Seth Godin, who is absolutely incredible. He is one of the— he's such an educator. He's amazing. And he had this program called The Creative Workshop.

Hmm.

And reading one of his books right now.

Yeah.

Which one?

Everything. What is it? Yukimi, I sent it to you just the other day.

The marketing book.

The marketing book.

I read The Purple Cow in the past. Yes.

Yes.

Now I'm reading. Yeah, exactly.

So he has The Creative Workshop and we decided that that would be a great thing for me. Now in The Creative Workshop, what you do is 100 days is a 100-day commitment to whatever it is your creative field is or your creative, your creative voices. It's so you can discover your creative voice and create a working creative practice. So 100 days, you load what you do every day into the program. So there's accountability as well. This was the first time I had decided to write any music. Like Black Book. Like, I had never written classical music before or neoclassical music before. It was just— it was totally an experiment. But every day I wrote little pieces, little fragments every day, and I would post them up. And then some days they would come together, and I'm like— after about the first 11 days, I had one piece, which is called Michelle's First Day at the White House. It's on the Black Book album.

Oh, I love that piece, by the way.

I I had never written anything like that before. It was just, it was strange. And the next day, you know, people gave me real-time feedback on what I was doing. I'd never written in front of an audience. You know, we go in the practice room and we close the door and then we do all we do, we do, we do, and then we open the door and we go out and get on stage and we play. This was literally inviting the audience into the practice room, creating things and making so many mistakes and writing good things and writing bad things. I mean, there were some days where I would have 20 poop emojis just going across the screen. Yeah, because I'm just like, today was trash, guys. Sorry, this is what I wrote. It's 37 seconds of I don't know what, but I put in my time. And I say around the middle, midway through, and everyone had been kind of following my progress— progression as I was writing this music. One student said she was listening to my dailies when I post daily and she went into the kitchen and she was pouring her coffee and she was listening to it. And her mother said, "Oh my gosh, this music, this piano music, what is it? It's so good." She explained to her mother, this was one of the students. And she says, "Well, play some more for me." She says, "Well, he posts every day." She says, "Well, come back and play it again." And this became a way that she and her mother reconnected. They would sit down and have their coffee and they would listen to what I would perform, my dailies. Um, so it just came— just so happened I had one piece that I had finished, and I said I had no title for it. Any, any ideas? And she says, yeah, it sounds like an ocean. She says, and then my mom from the other room screamed, he should name it after me. So I said, what's your mother's name? She said Amalia. I said, Amalia's Ocean. It was the first time that I had felt that something that I was doing was connecting people in a very authentic way. And that being the story, I, I immediately understood what it meant to be accountable to an audience, what it meant to be a performer, what it meant to be— what, what I was really doing. I really got the sense of what I was doing, which is I'm here to connect and inspire people, and that's my only job. I have to continue doing this. So 121 days, all during the pandemic, during lockdown, Black Book was completed. I didn't know what it was going to turn into. I had no idea what it was going to turn into. Some months later, management agreement happened. Some months later, I can never— I'll never forget, it was on a Friday, Billy Mann called me. He said, hey, we have a label called Icons and Giants, which is a joint venture with Warner Music, and they want to sign Black Pop first. And I said, are you saying you're offering me a record deal? He said Yes, I'm offering you a record deal. And I'll never forget that moment. I mean, I fell to my knees and started crying. I couldn't believe it was happening.

You know, when you were sharing how this mother and daughter, they were having their conversation and then you just kind of got— it's almost like you're serving humankind.

It is.

And now your music is going to Mars or wherever.

Yeah.

Good space.

One of the things that you learn in the workshop is that art is an act of service. Art is an act of generosity. This is what we do is for other people. It's not for us. It's to give.

Exactly. Yeah, it's a mission, right? I think our previous guest mentioned Ming Kwan. She is a Steinway artist, and she mentioned that it's a mission. It's not really, you know, up until a certain point, it's about your ego, right? And you really want to show off, but then you hit the wall. What am I doing? Why do I practice hours and hours for what? Then you get to the point where, well, this is a gift and I am here to give. Oh my God. Yeah, yeah. I feel that from both of you, Ray and Bach. So yeah, it's a really beautiful thing. What do you think For you, so it was great that I absolutely— my favorite piece from your album is November 7th, 2020. I mean, that day to me personally, it's a yay, and I really love the introduction of that piece. It's really— the double notes are so hopeful. For as a live performer, obviously there was a downside. I mean, a lot of us lost a job, but at the same time, a creator like yourself found a way to be creative. And, you know, you had this record deal. Oh my gosh. So what do you think this pandemic affected this, uh, the music industry? I mean, it's—

I know it's a big question, it's a broad question, but I think it, it affected us as far as being performers, but I think Creatives are creatives, you know, we're crazy people. We're all crazy people, which is great. The inability to go outside, I feel, made everyone kind of go inside and they had to search inwardly, like into your spirit, into your soul, into your mind, into your creativity to kind of go for, you know, a voyage or journey into what that is. And I think that's kind of what this pandemic did for us, is it made a lot of people search in ways that they had never searched before, including myself, including you guys creating this podcast. Like, this was something that says, you know, this is another way that we can do something that serves. This is another way we can create something that, that speaks to a certain audience. I mean, one of the things I definitely learned from the workshop is there's an audience for everything. Thing. If you can take the time to just create something authentically, then there is always an audience that will meet you halfway and be there when you're ready to present it.

That's amazing. Yes. So we have to keep going, going, Clara. Yes, keep going.

Keep changing as well.

Yeah, exactly.

Oh, there's something. And then, you know, it's—

we—

what was the—

who—

well, maybe that was a Chinese proverb, but they were saying the opportunity always lays for people that are ready, right? So if you just keep on going, uh, or that, uh, you know, that— what was that proverb, Ray? That the one— you see, Ray lives in Malaysia, but he, he's like Chinese even better than me. I mean, the needle, you know, when you have a needle on a stone or something like that, right?

Yeah, if you keep doing it, you, you can even break the mountains, something like that, you know.

Yeah, yeah. And these really are— I, I'm guilty of sometimes I, I don't know if it's just because the culture I grew up or the way I was trained, you know. Sometimes I have to see results. Like, if with social media, for example, I get very, you know, personal. If I post something, I spend a lot of time, and then I don't see anything, all of a sudden I go into, oh my God, I just waste my life away and then doing, you know, like, not really.

Yeah, it's right.

It's not, you know, you know, yeah, the people that are see it are the people that were supposed to see it. Yeah. And the idea is that you're, if you constantly stay in the frame of mind of I'm giving, it allows you to disconnect from personally from it. You know, it's, it's, it's an offering. And when you give an offering, you step away from it, you know, and you go off and you find something else and you offer something else. So if you're constantly staying in the mind of this is service, this is service, this is service. I always, even when I, before I step on the stage, I remind myself this is service. This is for somebody else. This is not for you. You're going on stage so you can allow someone else and give them the space to feel and express in the way that they, they want to feel, the way they choose. And that's the beautiful thing. My number one goal always is to make people cry. I just want people to cry. And then every time, you know, when I do a show and someone says, yeah, I took my mother to your show and she was in tears of joy, I'm going, yes, nailed it! There it is, mission accomplished, I've got it.

Yeah, it's not always that we have to play to a stage full of people, like a full audience, you know what I mean? Sometimes even one person that appreciates us, that, that is very beautiful already. And even if there's no one, for me it's also a service to myself. So sometimes when I make music and put it up on YouTube, uh, I put it up for myself so that in future, 10 years down the road, I can listen to my songs. And sometimes when I can't sleep, I can listen to my own songs to sleep, you know what I mean? So, so I don't worry too much about the number numbers.

Right.

The number will grow eventually.

Yeah, it's just a number.

Yeah, it's just a number.

Yeah. I think in the future I really have to change the script and say Ray was my teacher, you know, from the first day.

Student is now the teacher, right?

He's only a year younger, but you know, we won't discover our age. But you know, but he was always so respectful. But then this is something he always told me, I think That's the thing with the classical musicians, right? Like, we were told, okay, if you don't do it perfectly, you shouldn't do it. You know, I remember the first video he recorded on this piano, like, um, you know, he was like visiting my apartment. I had only a bed and the piano, that was it. And he was like, let me record it and like, let me, you know, put up on YouTube. And he was like, you should do it too. I was like, no, my Bach is not perfect yet, I need to practice another 20 hours on it. You know, yeah, not true. Finally, I'm changing my mind.

Yes, don't search for perfection. Oh my God, it's never— you'll never—

you will never take the first step. It's very difficult to take the first step when, when we are looking for perfection, right?

Oh, we can go on and on and on about this, but it's, uh, actually it's time for us to move on. But before we go on to this fun segment, I, I'm gonna steal your question, Clara. I have a question So, uh, do you have any advice for young musicians, uprising, upcoming musicians?

Yes, listen to everything. First thing, right? Listen to everything. Everything has its value. Everything. I always say I listen from Bach to Trippie Redd, everything in between. Like, it doesn't matter what it is, there's always some musical value in everything. You just have to find— maybe it could be one note or one phrase or one line or one beat or one rhythm, or that hi-hat. I love the way that hi-hat sounds. There's always validity in music across the board of any genre. Like I was just telling Lawrence Brownlee yesterday, I listened to, uh, Chris Stapleton, but I also listen to Luke Combs.

Oh, I love him.

I listen to, you know, I've been so into Luke Combs in the past, you know, couple months, like, damn, this guy's really good. And then, you know, my friends look at me, they're going, you listen to country music? I'm like, I listen to everything. There's nothing that's not on the menu. So that would be my first thing is listen to everything. There's something that you can grasp from every genre of music.

Thank you. All right, so kids, are you guys ready to have fun before we go? All right, so the next segment is called the Rapid Fire Questions. Now this segment was created after— actually, we interviewed Ray Mack last year, and around Thanksgiving time we didn't have this segment. So what we want— I know, right? A year ago. So this time I want Ray and Bach to answer, uh, those really fun short questions.

All right, so make sure short, short, short, right? What is your comfort food?

Sushi.

Sushi.

All right, all right, next. Cats or dogs? Cats or dogs?

Dogs for the win. Yeah.

Oh my gosh, perfect.

All right, you guys are like twins. What is going on? What is your word or words to live by?

Wow, this is tough. Persistence.

Service.

Wow. What is the most important quality you look for in people?

Personality.

Authenticity.

Wow.

What is the worst quality in people you want to stay away from?

Energy sucker.

People who, who, people who lack self-love.

Oh, wow.

Name 3 people who inspire you, living or dead.

Okay, I, I started YouTube because of this guy called David Sides. He was the first one who played piano on YouTube. So when I saw him, I'm like, oh, I want to do the same thing too. So I became the first 10 people on YouTube who plays the piano. So it was very early back in 2006. Wow, you're only 3 years old. Yeah, that was like one of the person, and of course the other YouTubers as well. Like MrBeast, and, and, uh, that's another guy called Timoti, Timoti Delagedo, which is one of the OG YouTubers. So these are the people that inspired me to start. So without the starting, it will be a bit difficult.

That's right, starting is gonna answer.

Yeah, I would say first my music teacher, Mr. Schwartz. I would say, um, the head of my label, Billy Mann. Very, very, very much an inspiration to me. And then I would say André Watts.

One of my favorite pianists. Oh, he's wonderful.

Great.

Which historic figure do you want to hang out with at the bar if he or she were alive?

Bob Marley.

Got the party, right?

The Rage House.

All right. Yeah, that sounds great.

He is kind of like me, you know, we can't read, but he's blind.

Right.

And I got my name from Ray Charles, actually. Yes, my name Ray is actually from Ray Charles.

Yeah, that's perfect. All right, next question. Name one piece in your current playlist.

Tchaikovsky's Sixth.

Permission to Dance by BTS.

Wonderful.

He went that way, I went this way.

I know, that's great. Well, you get only one song or piece to listen to for the rest of your life. What is it?

It's a piece called Across the Sky by Pat Metheny.

He's a jazz guitarist. Jazz guitarist, yes.

Mine would be Mozart Andante K.565, I think it's called.

Remember your lover.

Which is the second song after the— Yeah, the middle one.

That was the one that I stepped off stage and everybody went laugh.

Yeah, so, so, so the song that I like, the song that I like is actually the middle one, the slow, the slow part, which is the, the Andante one. Why? Because my, my babies sleep with that song. So to me it's peace because when my baby is sleeping—

that's right, you have two.

Yeah, I have two babies, so they sleep to that song. So that song is wonderful.

Wonderful.

That's right.

All right, so let me ask the last question. Fill in the blank: music is blank life.

Music is love.

Oh my God, wonderful!

Ding ding ding!

Yeah, thank you so much for answering all the questions. Now we usually have this outro and finish the show, but I want to ask Mr. Blackbuck to play something for us before we leave.

Such a pleasure.

Oh my God, bravo, bravo, bravo!

I would still call you a classical pianist.

Oh my gosh, I could totally feel the neoclassical. Exactly, neoclassicalism in it.

Is that, is that the Cookie Waltz or—

No, that's The Hustle Is Real.

Hustle's Real. Okay, it's from, from your, the latest album.

Black Book. Yes.

All right. And then The Piano Pod is available on Spotify. It's on all the streaming services. Wonderful, amazing. And thank you so much for joining us today, and thank you, Ray, for being with us today as well. Yeah. So unfortunately, good time always comes to an end. I know.

And that was so good.

I know, that was a beautiful performance. Thank you, and then what an incredible interview. Thank you so much. So this concludes this episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Bach Bach for joining us today and sharing your stories, insights, and expertise. You can find more information on blkbok.com, and be sure to follow his Instagram, TikTok @blkbok, and please don't forget to check out his album Black Book and mixtape cover art, and Angels Watching Over Me on Spotify. And thank you, Ray Mak, for showing up to be the guest co-host from Kuala Lumpur today. And please check out Ray's performance on his YouTube channel and other social media platforms.

Thank you to our wonderful audience and the fans for tuning in today. If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review on whatever podcasting platform you use. If you're watching us on YouTube, remember to hit the thumbs up button and be sure to subscribe to our channel. You can always find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. The, uh, the links are in the description below.

If you have any feedback for us, please leave it in the comments or DM us via social media, or you can also email us at The pianopotnyc@gmail.com.

We will see you for the next episode of The Piano Pod with everyone.

And thank you so much, Bob. Thank you, Ray. Thank you.