Season 4 Episode 14: Liam Pitcher - South African Classical Pianist, Composer, & Improviser

Welcome back to another episode of The Piano Pod. Here, tradition meets innovation. We bridge the timeless beauty of the piano with the dynamic pulse of today's world. I am your host, Yukimi Song. Today I invited Liam Pitcher, pianist, composer, and one of South Africa's leading improvising musicians, as a guest of the episode. Liam is a dynamic pianist, composer, and educator known for blending classical music with electroacoustic and electronic elements. His career highlights include captivating piano improvisations, over 100 original compositions performed in prestigious venues like the Baxter Theatre, and innovative electronic music that merges classical composition with modern soundscapes. A champion of both South African and international music, Liam promotes a rich community of composers and musicians. His journey in music began with early piano studies, leading to significant achievements such as the Piano Prize at Bishop's School, and top honors at the Rustenburg Piano Festival. Educated at the South African College of Music, Liam refined his talents in piano and electronic music, guided by distinguished mentors. Today, he continues to explore the frontiers of music, creating works that resonate deeply across the globe, testament to his commitment to blending traditional and contemporary sounds. Here we are today to explore Liam's passion for improvisation and more. But before we dive in, a warm welcome to new listeners and big thank you to our faithful TPP fans. Don't forget to rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platform. I am thrilled to welcome Mr. Liam Pitcher to start our conversation. Stick with us for a reflective discussion on keeping classical music relevant in today's Changing World. Please enjoy the show. You are listening to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song, where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry about how they are bringing the piano into the 21st century. So welcome, Liam, to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song.

Well, thanks for having me on. Look forward to seeing what we have to say.

Oh yeah, thank you. So I discovered you and then your work through Lisa Whaley. Um, she is an educator, music education activist, whom she really worships you. And then, uh, I got to interview her several months ago for this show as well, and then she recommended checking out your work through your YouTube channel, and I watched several video clips of your works. And then you're such a multifaceted pianist and musician, but what stood out to me was, of course, your skills as an improviser. That made a significant impact and got me interested and eventually contacted you to interview for the show. And I think it's extraordinary, the gifts of improvisational skills and the fact that you released sets of CDs of your improvisations on the piano. And then apart from your work as a performing recording artist and improviser, you're a percussionist and engineer, sound engineer, and a dedicated music educator as well, right?

Right. Yes.

So we have so much to talk about, but simply let's start with this. What does improvisation mean to you?

I think it depends on, you know, the moment that you sit down. It can mean so many things. I mean, it could mean, for example, I know my teacher, for example, both of us are believers and he channels the Holy Spirit through his improvisations. Now, I mean, I am a mere peasant compared to him when it comes to improvisations. He can improvise a four-part fugue in the style of Wagner like that, and then he can swap to like a six-part fugue in the style of Bach, and the entries will be good, you know. So I'm not quite there, to be clear. There are definitely people better than I am, although I think that for me, an improvisation is a way for me to express myself in any way that I might choose to at the instrument, whether that manner is spiritual or whether I'm exploring something musical or mathematical, it's just a catalyst for my personal expression. And that, that can be a catalyst further for my enjoyment or for my development. It can be a catalyst for zoning out and maybe, you know, channeling the divine through mindfulness. It could be a way to ponder. It could be a way to relax, de-stress. It can be anything that you want it to be. But I think most importantly, it's, it's for me, right? When I sit at that instrument, I'm playing for myself through an improvisation. In other words, I'm doing things hopefully that are interesting to me, and I find that if I play it, for example, an event, a live event, say a wedding or a corporate event or something along those lines, as soon as I make it about something else, that, that it's no longer actually about what I enjoy, it no longer has the same impact as, for example, the recordings that I've actually released into the world. Which are all my essence. So I think that we mustn't kid ourselves when we sit down and we improvise something. It's almost a direct translation of your own essence through sound and how you are feeling in that moment, what you are in that moment. And that may bring your past, it may bring your ambitions into it. It could be anything. That's such an amalgamation of millions and trillions of things that it could be. So I think A very nuanced and complicated question, although it sounds quite simple.

Wow. You know, I'm a classical musician, and obviously classical— playing classical music pieces is different from doing improv. And then I do— I can do a simple improvisation on the theme of someone else, like, you know, pop songs or something. But to improvise and then just given this, you know, 88 keys in front of me and do improvise. It's a little overwhelming. How does your improvisational process work? Where, so you said you're just in the moment, you feel something, or do you have any like a sort of theme in your mind when you do?

Right. Absolutely. So, I mean, once again, it depends, like you can improvise with the intention to enjoy yourself alone and make it a selfish act, right? In which case, you're probably not going to be thinking too much. I mean, maybe if you're me, you're going to be thinking quite a bit about what you're playing, but you can also just see what comes to your fingers. Now, I personally disagree with doing this too often. I think that it's— it should be reserved for recording or performance, that kind of true essence of letting go. I like to reserve that. I think that to play without thinking about what you're playing when you're in private, it's not developing you or the music or music in general in any way, and therefore you can't ever hope to develop your listener in any way as a result. So when I sit down to improvise, I'm always thinking about what I'm playing from a music theory perspective. That could be that maybe I wish to observe how certain sonorities sound in comparison to one another, or perhaps I wish to practice within a certain, you know, set of notes, whether that's a scale or a mode, or, you know, a mode on the first or second degree of whatever other scale. So that could be that technical in that way, or it could be like, I want to explore a certain rhythmical component, or maybe I want to explore that rhythmical component within a certain scale. So it depends how deep I want to go and how I'm feeling. But yeah, usually at least on a basic level, it will be What can I do that's different to what I've done before? I want to sit down and improvise in a way that's different every time because I truly believe that, like, it's kind of our duty to do that. As people who are trained in music, we have a certain responsibility with that wisdom that we've gained to push music outside of what it is. And the music that I hear on the radio mostly, and that is broadcasted publicly, and that is performed publicly, is music that is just purely intuitive, that has not been developed, that that person that wrote that usually has not done what I'm talking about. They haven't fully understood what it is that they're playing. And I don't just mean understand it in terms of I'm playing perfect fifths, you know, and a minor or major third in a triad, and then I'm moving that up and down a scale. I don't mean understanding it in a technical way. I mean actually understanding how those technicalities convey meaning through music, which is the lost art of music theory, which is the whole point of music theory, which is the point of translating the intention of the great composers, the score, through the performer into, for example, a classical music performance. And even that, you know, I'm a DJ as well. If I'm playing other people's music, I'm always going to embed my own personal touches when I'm mixing that music live. I mean, that's— I'm not only just playing verbatim what someone else has written. And it seems to me that it's a bit of a travesty where we are now, that we're kind of just listening to the same song over and over again. And no one has done that due diligence to actually understand what came before. And I'm talking about popular music now, because people like you and I do study this. But we have a responsibility as well to unify those worlds. So I'm trying to do that in my own way. But yeah, I like to sit down and think about what I'm doing, to answer your question. Like, I want to truly understand what I'm doing, not only in its sonority, but in terms of the meaning. That, and then there, and also not only the meaning to me. Yes, there's subjective meaning, but what's the objective meaning? What are the comparisons? Because everything is ultimately just vibration, and there can be a relationship drawn between the vibrations of a conversation and the vibrations of music. There can be a relationship drawn between the vibrations of this piece of music. Perhaps I move up and down a certain way, I play with certain dynamics, and that might resemble an actual occasion between two human beings. It might resemble something spiritual, truly. It might truly reflect that. And I think that for me, I'm trying to find a way to convey meaning through the music. As directly as possible. And the great composers understood this better than anyone in the Western classical art music. They understood this. Obviously, in other music cultures, it was understood in different ways. But Western classical art music, it has a very special place in my heart personally, because I think that the fact that it is based on the very vibrational structure of the universe, the overtone series, like our 12 tones come from that. And the fact that it comes from the very essence of the vibrations of the universe makes it very special. It means that we have the opportunity to, in my experience, convey meaning through the music. And that's what actually it was all about for Bach and Mozart and Beethoven. It was about meaning. And unfortunately, that's what we've lost even in modern universities. The university that I went to, probably the universities that you went to at this point, they've lost the ability to communicate what I'm communicating now. It's only through having teachers like the teachers that I've been very blessed to have that I can come to understand these things. I'm very blessed. But when I look at people talking about even music theory online, for example, and I hate making comparisons, I hate making it sound like my way or the highway. That's not what I'm saying. I think that what has been done before us has been so incredibly miraculous in terms of the music that's already been written, that to not even begin to understand that is a great travesty beyond words. Once you truly begin to understand what these artists have done before us, and I mean when you realize the essence underlying every single note on the page— only through really understanding music theory can you do this, not just analyzing, oh well, you know, that's a passing 6/4 progression, to speak in layman's terms, or, you know, well, that's a dominant 13th with a raised 5th and minus the 7th or whatever, you know, that's not telling me what the meaning of the music is. And I feel like we've lost the ability to capture audiences' hearts and souls with the beauty that is classical music, with the beauty that is all music. We've lost the ability to actually captivate people and convey meaning through music as performers, as composers, because we have just simply failed to continue the beautiful tradition that was lost once upon a time when artists took it upon themselves, you know, to write highly mathematical music. And they said, well, we don't care what the public thinks anymore. And I think that that great exploration that they did was so selfish. And like, we haven't picked up the pieces from serialism, for example. We haven't picked up the pieces yet. And for me, I'm trying to pick up the pieces. I'm trying to reach a point where I can truly— so when I sit down to improvise, to finally answer your question, all of what I've just said, but I'm trying to cultivate the ability to convey the very essence of meaning through music. And that's what I'm thinking about when I sit down and improvise music. And that involves understanding, yes, technically the music theory, etc., but also it involves cultivating the ear. So I'm listening very carefully to the sound that's being produced. I'm listening very carefully to how, you know, the manner in which I move my fingers. What control do I have over this sound right now? What aspects of my playing do I need to develop? Now, I also can read music, and I also played pre-written compositions, but I don't record any of those because I will only— I'll probably only record those when I'm 40+ years old. Because that's just the very rich tradition that my teachers come from, or my teacher, right, Narasheh Detoi, comes from. It's that your career as a pianist only really starts when you're 40 years old, because you need to spend years developing the ability to truly convey this meaning I'm talking about. It is so infinitely nuanced that it's almost— it's sad to see people even sit down and try with the level of understanding that they have. It saddens me that we've lost so much. And so I'm trying to cultivate my own ability to just be a vessel for what it really is and what it really means so that people can feel something again. Because I just feel like that's the only way our industry will ever become relevant again, is if people can actually listen to a beautiful piece of music and feel something again, truly feel what the composer intended them to feel. So that's what I'm cultivating when I sit down to improvise. Wow.

You answered a lot of things because it's really, my show is all about how this classical music tradition can be relevant in the 21st century audience. So having said that, um, do you also think about your audience as you improvise? Do you also sense, or sometimes, you know, music or even play or what we do as an artist is also you, you get some gain something from our audience, right? You feel something. Do you sense that as you improvise?

Well, the thing is I don't improvise in front of audiences too often. And if I do, it's mainly for background music at events because I mean, people aren't really in a place where they can even begin to comprehend. What it means to go and sit down and listen to someone improvise on an instrument. Like, there isn't even the means for people to begin to understand that interaction. And I'm certainly not going to try and facilitate that. I think that there's groundwork that has to be done. So for me, where I engage with audiences is through DJing, because that's the simplest way that I can engage with audiences. And absolutely, like, the music that I choose to play can either make people bored and want to leave wherever we are, or it can create a beautiful, you know, community healing experience between the people there. It can deepen the very bonds of their relationships. And like, that's my responsibility. That's what I think DJing should actually be about. It's very little to do with counting to 4 and scratching and, you know, effects and all of that, although those can be used to enhance this meaning that I'm talking about. So I think that what's nice about DJing in particular is that it gives you that direct window into the effect that music can have on people. Whereas if you're sitting in front of an instrument, you're looking at a score, or you're looking at the instrument, or you have your eyes closed and you're focusing on the instrument. And I think that with classical music in particular, it requires that. That's fine. I don't think that it's our responsibility to be great showmen of this, you know, I mean, to like, to simply sit down and play something you've rehearsed for a long while. And to play it exceptionally well and to just be able to enjoy that yourself is a show enough to anyone who's listening. But they have to come to that performance ready to receive what you have to play, and they just can't do that right now. What they can receive, however, is the smash hits from the '70s till now. So I think that in a way, I would recommend that any classical artist, whether they're composing or whether they're performing classical music, jazz, whatever. It doesn't just have to be classical. I think everyone should do something that allows them to connect in the way that DJing does, for example, just like, you know, most instrumentalists play the piano as a second instrument so that they can begin to understand music theory through the piano, because it's a very easy way to see where you are. Right. So that's why people learn secondary piano, not so that they can play the piano, which is what also, but I feel like the whole mentality, you know, even as we're speaking about this, they're just gates. You know, we're just trapped by a system that doesn't even tell us the meaning behind why we're even learning these things. But secondary piano, for example, that's a means to explore, you know, what music actually is in a Western classical music sense, because it has all the 12 tones there laid out in such a way that you always know where you are. You can see the division between octaves clearly, and that's what it's for. It's literally a mechanism for learning. You don't have to learn how to play like a virtuoso. So that's something that's lost. And then you might say that it would be good for any instrumentalist to play a percussion, a percussion instrument, or to play the drum kit, or something, a rhythmical instrument, so that they get a good grasp of one of the other four pillars of music. Our instrument tends to give us a good command over pitch but not necessarily rhythm. Perhaps it gives us a good command over dynamics but not rhythm. Maybe timbre but not rhythm. So it's like we have to go back to the rhythm. And to truly understand how it all works together, yes, piano, music theory, great. But I think that then you could say the fifth element of music is maybe the performance, like conveying that whole unit to someone else outside of you. And to do that, you actually need to understand human psychology. And really the best way to do that is to be in front of audiences and play music and see their reactions. Now you can do that by playing pop music, for example, on your instrument. But are you that good? Are you so good at pop? And you should maybe strive to be this good, but are you so good at pop that you can truly make people feel something? Because that's how people feel things these days. Like, we see the music of the past as wonderful, as great, as meaningful. But in their time, I mean, they were very much writing for the audiences. Think about someone like Mozart, writing for the court, writing for royalty. He wanted to connect with his audiences, but he obviously took it step outside of what came before. He had a certain genius. So I think that's what— like I said, it's a balancing act. I'm looking for that as well. Like, how can I convey all of this meaning that I'm understanding to an audience? I need to understand what level my audience is on to do that. I'm not going to play Bartók for people who go on a Friday night drinking out at the nightclub with their friends and they've never sat in an auditorium. Not to say that there's anything better about an auditorium than going and drinking at a nightclub. I think, like, most any endeavor in this life can have meaning if we wanted to, but music has this ability to take us outside of what we are very rapidly if we wanted to. But I think that people are not in that mindset that they can actually just be willing to receive and move outside of what they are. I need to understand my audiences. I need to understand where they're at. Then I need to very carefully decide how am I going to move them outside of where they are just enough that they can experience something new and not try and force them to go and listen to Beethoven if that's not what they want to listen to. Not force them to shut up for 4 movements just because that's what they did in the past.

Right, right.

You're right. We need to move outside of what happened before, before we can even talk about what happened before, before we can then move back to the tradition that happened before and say, all right, Well, you know, we've experienced some development through music now. Like, we're feeling that perhaps there's a world here that we didn't know about. Now, this is how they used to do it in the times of Beethoven. We would actually listen to 4 separate movements and we wouldn't clap until right at the end. Then all of a sudden it makes sense. And then it's like, wow, now I'm learning about history and culture and I can actually like feel like I'm a part of something, you know? So there's just so much work to do. I mean, oh, what We really are not doing that work. We're trying to practice for thousands of hours so that we can perfectly replicate the Beethoven Sonata, which, by the way, unless you're with a teacher who actually comes from Beethoven, you're just never going to do that, right? So you're just never going to find— you can't find it online. You have to get it from the teachers who were with the students of Beethoven, you know, Czerny, Tovey, etc. All those people, you need to study with those people to play better. Then you need to study with students of students of Chopin to play Chopin, etc. So I mean, like, we're just focusing on all the wrong things. Why are we doing all of those things before we actually, you know, find a way to bridge the gap between the audience and the music? Like, we're not working on the right things here. And unfortunately, the way that most classical musicians try to, you know, do this very careful balancing act is that they just completely dumb down their product to the point where they're just playing pop covers And then they've given themselves over to the economic machine and they haven't made an effort to try and move the audience outside of that because we don't actually study the things that I'm talking about in music college. We only study how to— in performance degree, you study how to perform, but you don't study how to present, how to talk to an audience and say, listen, where are you at? What music do you like? You know what we're playing here tonight? This is some music that we might enjoy, but we also think you might enjoy that. This is why. These are the elements of the music you might find interesting. Listen out for this. You'll hear that there's a gap of silence. Don't applaud yet. There's going to be something else that happens after that. And through that presentation, there should be a whole field just to actually present the music to the audience, like in spoken dialogue. Like Leonard Bernstein was one of the great conduits of that, who actually educated audiences on what they were about to listen to and engage them and made it an engaging process. Rest his soul. He did so much for music. But where, where are all of the Leonard Bernstein's of today? They just don't exist. You know, you go to a classical music concert and you sit there and listen, and half of the time it's just really bad, actually. And it just is like a half-souled attempt to replicate something from the past. And, and then that's what people think classical music is. What a sad thing, right?

Absolutely.

What happened to our sense of duty and responsibility? You know, when I said to you just now that I'm not going to get up on a stage before I'm 40 years old and perform like a pre-written piece, that's how serious I am that when I get on that stage one day, I'm going to play Bach as close to the way that Bach would have played it himself on a piano if he was going to perform it himself and had the necessary skill to convey himself. I don't know if he did. We only have the history books. He probably did. He could probably play very well. But, you know, like, I'm trying to get as close to that as possible before I can even think about what's my interpretation of this. Like, we're so focused on what's my take on this, me, me, me. We haven't even understood, we haven't even begun to understand the very essence, the meaning itself behind the music. I still see my teacher every week to understand even the deeper, the subtler nuances of all of it. So that's what I'm after. And like, I could probably convey to an audience what I'm talking about now, but that's just me. Then what about everyone else? Like, what do I do about that? I don't know. I don't have all the answers. I'm just trying to figure it out as much as anyone else is. But I think that we all have this duty. We should feel this duty, at least that I feel, that wait a second, this power beneath our fingers to weave into the very fabric of existence, these beautiful melodies and sounds. Has the capacity to change the very fabric of people's beings when they listen. I better make sure that I understand what I'm doing before I do that. But in this day and age, everyone wants to be a musician. It's so easy. Everyone wants to be a music producer. You go download sample libraries, music banks, great. You know, it's so easy to be a watered-down version of something that is so divine in its essence that it could heal our very souls and spirits as a unified entity, you know, not infuriating. So yeah, I think that like the whole industry is just driven by ego. And some people might listen to what I'm saying and think that I'm very egotistical to say what I'm saying, but music is shaping people's spirits and lives and beings in very disgusting negative ways. It is affecting the way that they think about this world. You know, drugs, sex, money, and alcohol, the four great themes in all modern-day pop music, are propagating a disgusting spirit into our society, and we call that music? The music that I know is not that. I need a different word for that. That's not music to me, right? So I take it very personally. And it's a serious matter, and I don't quite know what to do about it yet, but I'm glad we're talking about it because I think that the dialogue is important, but really between people who actually care, you know?

Right. But usually I usually ask these questions toward the end, like we talk about our duty as a musician, class performing artists and so forth. But you, you, um, answered all these questions at the beginning, so I'm very grateful. But, and I am with you on that. You know, in many ways, that's one of the reasons I started this podcast where as a classical music musician, you know, are we just replicating something from the past? But we are not. So, right. And you actually have a background in sound engineering. So does this sort of philosophy come from that sound engineering? Because in many ways you think music different from classical musicians, because we as classical musicians, we are taught to hone our skills, you know, technique, you know, so we think about phrases, we think about musical language different from sound engineering, because sound engineers, you guys create sound.

Yeah, it's a great shame that we aren't. I think that a good teacher will teach you that you actually have a divine responsibility when you sit down at your instrument. I think it comes for me from just actually years of, if I'm honest, like years of studying with people who have similar views to what I'm holding right now and maybe don't even express them as extremely as I'm expressing them right now. But I've seen artists who are the greatest geniuses who've ever lived and no one knows about them. And I myself, no one knows who I am. They're going to listen to your podcast. They're going to be like, who's this guy? Right? I've, I've spent 20 years playing my instrument and truly honing my craft to where I could say I'm probably one of the world's experts in what I do. And yet no one knows who I am because I'm playing— I'm fighting a losing battle where people can't even receive what I've spent my whole life cultivating. And I think we need to just And, you know, maybe they, maybe they don't need to receive it. Maybe just I need to receive it, or maybe whoever needs to receive it will receive it. And that's fine. But like, wow, can you imagine if the whole world could receive it, what we would be as a species? And music is just one thread in a beautiful quilt that is this world. Like, what other beautiful cultural things could we be doing to broaden our horizons? To become more, you know. But I think music is very special because it's the very vibration of this world itself. So music in a way is special in that sense. And I don't mean that once again to make it sound like I am something special, but I think that music is something special. That's why I dedicate my whole life to it. That's why everything that I do, whether it's DJing, the DJ company, or this, is music, right? With like, just the words that I'm saying to you right now are precious. The words that you're saying to me are precious. We haven't even begun to understand what we could be if we were all unified in that. And like, it really sickens me where we are right now in terms of the fact that audiences can't receive what we've spent our lives developing, you know.

Is it lack— due to lack of certain kind of training or education in terms of like in, in general public?

It's just years of playing the same thing on the radio over and over again. And sadly, the same things that are played on the radio over and over again, you know, the reason they're played over and over again and that they can be written over and over again is because they're just addictive substances at the end of the day. Those chords that, you know, that are used in modern-day pop, etc. And now, you know what, now we're kind of starting to move outside of like the 4-chord space a bit, the 2-chord space, but like you hear things that are actually genuinely a little bit more interesting, which is really encouraging actually. I'm encouraged by where, you know, that kind of level of music slightly above pop music is going, especially in something like electronic dance music. I'm hearing things that are pretty harmonically daring, like people are moving outside of 4/4 time now. Like, I'm seeing developments, and that's promising, and it's faster development than we had in the 2,000-year history of music that you and I know. So something happening, but like, we're not quite there yet. So I think that Just awareness is important to answer your question. Like, no one's talking about music. They're just playing loads of garbage over and over again. And like, everyone has so much choice now because of streaming services. Now, what's really great for me is these algorithms that recommend music, they're actually getting pretty good now. So now I'm getting music that's actually good fed to me based on my preferences. That's cool. Easy to get stuck in an echo chamber for sure, but nothing wrong with that. There's plenty to experience in an echo chamber if it's a good echo chamber, right? But if you're in the echo chamber of like Warner, Universal, Sony, and you're just listening to the top 100 and that's all you know, I doubt you're ever going to be recommended something outside of that. That would be very unusual, right? So I think like anything in life, it's a double-edged sword. Like we have to raise awareness in the public that, hey, there's a whole world out there. You know, everyone's talking about the latest health supplement that you can take to feel better. Everyone's talking about, oh, you can cure depression without taking sertraline or whatever. Don't take Ritalin, you know, here's this alternative. But man, all the healing you really need is right there on your Spotify. Literally, it's literally there. It's the very essence of what you are, in fact. And like, no one's talking about it. Crazy. So how can we convey that to the public? Go and listen to something that you don't know. And if they don't know where to start with that, hey, it's probably up to us professionals to curate playlists that they can go and listen to, to move outside of that. Now, I don't have the time to do that, and that's another issue. I would genuinely love to do something like that, but I just can't do it all, right? But maybe there should be all fields of study, like into playlist curation for the general public, and maybe then we can actually move radio to a place where they're playing something really good. Not that they would want to do that because they're very happy with their addictive formula that they propagate. But so that's one element. Then you could say, well, okay, that's got to do with what we listen to, right? And maybe how we communicate music. That's one way that it's lacking. What are the other ways that it could be lacking? Maybe there are other ways that it's lacking, right? That's just one element of it. Another way that we could be developing this is if, hey, if classical musicians didn't actually completely just sell their soul and play pop music and maybe started communicating with audiences live. And bringing the magic back into live performances. And then I think also the responsibility falls on us performers to actually take what we do very seriously so that people can experience what it actually means to watch a real musician play, you know, whether you're DJing or playing a guitar, piano, whatever. Classical musicians aren't special in that regard, but there's a seriousness that needs to be behind that. And that seriousness doesn't mean that you stand on stage and with a straight face, it means that you take your responsibility seriously as a conveyor of this divine vibration. Have you watched the series? Um, what is it called? The Wheel of Time on Amazon Prime.

No.

Beautiful series because there's this race called the Aes Sedai and they're women who literally have the ability to channel the very fabric of reality. Through their hands to protect, to protect the general population, and then that, that power can be corrupted. And I feel like music is actually that power in real life. I genuinely feel like I'm wielding that power even in the words that I speak now. Like, I know that the way that I'm feeling literally changes the electromagnetic radiation around my body according to science. The very atoms around me are vibrating differently depending on how I'm feeling. Wow. Like, how does that tie into music? This is what I mean when I say we have— we haven't even begun to scratch the surface of what's actually possible in music. And yet we have gone so many thousands of years backwards in terms of like the complexity of what is play. How can we begin to move away from that? We are slowly moving away from that, but there's no effort. There's no grand effort being made towards that because I feel like The record labels are very happy with where they are. The radios are happy with where they are. They're making lots of money. Most DJs who play like, what are they called? Tomorrowland, Ultra Music Festival, whatever, Electric Daisy, all of those festivals, QDance, they're very happy because they're making lots of money playing the music that people know. Everyone's very happy except us. And we can't convince them that what they're doing is wrong. That's not going to happen, right? But we need to maybe band together to raise awareness about this fact that, hey, there's something outside of that. That's great. That, that all that stuff's great because you know what? It's the only way that people actually connect with music and each other through a musical experience. And that's why it's doing so well. It just so happens that they, they don't even understand that they're at like a primary grade level of intellect in terms of what that music is and can do for the soul. Imagine people were on like a Tomorrow World festival dance floor, but the music had been written by the world's experts in music, and they were able to receive that. How transformative could one night be if that was the case? So I think for me, the biggest thing that should be done is I think that these record labels should be paying people like you to go and teach these artists music theory and to teach them about what I'm saying now, so that they understand the power that is actually in their hands to transform or destroy humankind with the sound, because it's literally that. So like, but they don't care. They're very happy with where they are, and they certainly won't admit to their wrongs. They'll never do that. So don't fight the losing battle, but like, find the people that are going to receive it who want to make a positive change, and let's all band together and make a platform. So I've actually, have actually conceptualized the platform for this. It's called Impart Productions, and it's all about giving artists a platform. Now it would have to be completely self-funded, which is why it's on— you've seen it when you look at the End the Hall recordings, Impart Productions, it's there. When I recorded those End the Hall piano improvisations, I didn't pay a cent. Because everyone that was there believed in me and the music that I wanted to play. That's not because I'm special, it's just because I actually went out and asked, and I was like, hey, like, I would really appreciate it if you could do this for me because I can't afford as an artist, a struggling artist back then— now I'm doing very well for myself, but you know, back then I couldn't afford to make a recording like that. That's like a That's like a $4,000 recording. You know what I mean? Like, how can an artist get a $4,000 recording when they're earning like $5 an hour playing music? It's just not realistic, right? So there would need to be a platform that provides artists with a space to truly express themselves to the nth degree and that they're encouraged to do that. And that they're paid money to do that. And the content that is created could actually be a wealth-generating asset in itself, but I think it would actually just have to be completely funded. But you would have to— for me, I would want to select who I believe are the most talented people who also align with what, what we're talking about now, who truly believe that music has the power to change this world. And you would have to be very selective with who you bring onto that. And then you would literally begin to fund the most insane artistic projects. And people would start to see what this is, what art— I get goosebumps talking about it. This is what art is supposed to be, right? What is this? And all of a sudden, they'll look at the other thing and think, what's that? I don't want that. And that's how, for me, we affect the change through the platform. It has to be, and it has to be just, you know, with people who have their hearts in the right places, who really care about music and believe that it can change the world as it's changed our worlds and is changing our worlds. And like, maybe that's not meant to be, and that's fine, you know, but I hope that it is because I think that nothing will develop our species faster. No technology is going to develop our species faster than what we're talking about now. But if we want to talk about evolving into beautiful divine order, can we start to understand how we order these beautiful vibrations around us and within us that very well make us, that might be worth living for, right?

Mm-hmm. Hey there, TPP family. The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song is now into our fourth season, and it's all thanks to you. Since 2020, you've been with my journey with the TPP. Exploring this burning question: How do we make classical music resonate with today's audience in fresh and captivating ways? 4 years in, and the journey has been nothing short of magical. The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song isn't just a podcast; it's a movement, a space where pianists, composers, and educators brainstorm, debate, and reimagine classical music's place in our fast-paced world. We're together on a mission to ensure classical music doesn't just survive but thrives in our modern age. But here's the thing: to keep bringing you these insightful biweekly episodes, I need your help. Every bit of support goes into the podcast's essentials, from hosting to high-quality recording tech, and the countless hours behind the scenes. So, do you want to be part of this journey? Click the PayPal link in the show notes or head to thepianopot.com to donate. And as a token of appreciation, I will personally mail you The Piano Pod's snazzy logo sticker. So hit the subscribe button, spread the word, and let's continue our mission and journey as classical musicians. Now let's continue with the show. You mentioned about your CDs and the improvisation, so I was blown away with your 10 CD albums. Called Improvisations, right? You mentioned, and then each, each CD has sort of like a theme, like Volume 1 was each piece was titled under colors and, you know, Volume 2 is about shape. So, so this is the one that you were funded by your fans and other people.

So that Endler Hall recording was not funded. It was just that the the camera person, you know, let us use their camera, you know, a DOP came and did it for free and someone gave us the space, etc. I actually paid for the space, if I'm honest. The actual filming process I didn't pay for, but they insisted that we pay for that space. The Endor Hall is very sought after, and I only got it because it was COVID at the time, so it was actually available. You simply can't record there as a commercial artist. No, I recorded those in Cape Town Sound Studio, and ironically It's hilarious to me that you are putting so much meaning into the names because they mean nothing. And it was a stab at the way that people name modern-day music. It actually, I very tongue-in-cheekly named all of those things based on the highest Google search volume terms in any given space.

No way.

They have no meaning relative to the music. But I just had fun imagining what people might conjure up in their minds about it. I did it purely to make fun of people. You know, they'll name a piece of music Helicopter or something, now these EDM tracks, and it's like, why did you name it that? What in the music conveys the helicopter? You know, but it's like, no thought. You haven't even begun to understand what you've written. How can you even name it, right? So I just, I named them completely random things. The names have no meaning whatsoever. They're just 100 improvisations that were my essence at the time, recorded on a very bad piano, unfortunately. And I wasn't the best performer back then, if I'm honest with you. I was only beginning to cultivate my true essence as an improviser. My technique was only beginning to develop. I mean, I had so many years that I'd lost in terms of technique because they don't teach playing technique anymore, not real playing technique on any instrument. No one teaches that until I was with my current teacher who comes from a long line of incredible performers who took me right back and corrected everything. And now I feel like even the End the Hall recording, although it's nice, I feel like I still wasn't in a place where I could even effectively convey what was within me. Now I'm a step closer to that, and I'll always be a step closer to that, right? So I can look back. But yeah, that— they're, they're nice improvisations. I wouldn't necessarily encourage people to go and listen to all 100 unless you just want to hear some interesting things harmonically. There are a few interesting things written rhythmically. I think what is noteworthy about those improvisations is I did group each CD in terms of, at first, kind of like the feeling of the pieces. There were also multi-movement piano improvisations where there were like 4 or 5 in the same key where I just improvised them nonstop, one after the other. I think those are on YouTube as well. You can listen to those. Those are worth listening to perhaps because I think improvisation should be more than just one piece, sometimes we can actually improvise a whole suite with breaks in between. So that was like an exploration there that may be worth listening to, is the suites that are in there. And if you just want to hear like really raw, kind of a raw, unhoned, like intent of somebody who, you know, has learned music theory and has been studying music for a long time and has studied with a creative genius but isn't really effectively able to control that raw kind of wisdom, you know, I think that would be a good framework to listen to my improvisations and that have been released. Now one day I hope to fully get that under my command, but I don't feel like I'm there yet, you know, like, will I ever be there? I don't know. That's what I'm striving for. So yeah, I think viewing it in the right lens is important. And I think just the way that I've communicated it to you now is the way we should be talking about all music. Where was that person at when they wrote that? Hey, like, if you go listen to a pop hit, like Is the producer who wrote that trained in music? If not, you probably want to know that. Like, so, hey, I'm not trained in music. I know these chords. I think they sound good. I thought they sound good as a backing to Miley Cyrus's voice, whatever that means, right? That it sounds good as a backing, you know, just like it immediately just reveals itself for what it is. As soon as you start talking about it, you know, the word has that power. So if we actually just start asking questions about what information we're receiving, and music is a type of information for sure. Maybe if people actually start asking questions, and people are starting to ask questions about a lot of things now, maybe they should start asking questions about music as well. Hey, well, what is this that I'm actually listening to? What are the lyrics to that? Let me Google that. What? I'm singing along to that? Oh no. You know, what a terrible thing that I'm repeating those disgusting lyrics that are on the radio every day. What's that doing to my brain? So I think the questioning, becoming self-aware, it's a part of that as well, perhaps very important, but how, how does one even begin? Yeah.

Yeah.

How does one even begin? Right. Maybe just with conversations like these, maybe we need to talk about this every week for the next 10 years and just release it and just maybe I'll promote it for $100 on TikTok and see what people say. Maybe that'll get the conversation going and then we can just post loads of these clips. And just shove them in people's faces, just like everyone shoves everything in people's faces. Maybe that's the answer. Maybe that will get people thinking. If someone radical like me starts saying these things and they see it all the time, maybe that will start, like, spark the conversation and give people the courage to stand up and say the same thing. Because I know that there are hundreds of thousands of souls like me who feel this way, and they can't necessarily— maybe they can't necessarily articulate it, Maybe they don't— some feel it, but they don't feel like they have the courage to say something. Or they might feel like, well, if I say that, then people are going to hate me. Or maybe I'll be rejected. Or maybe I'll lose that job. Maybe no one will hire me there. What's good about my circumstances for me is that I own my own life. So I don't work for anyone. I decide where I work. I book myself. People contact me to book me. No agency owns me. They don't own my thoughts. They don't know what I say. So because of that, I can say these things and If anything good is going to come of it, because it's the truth and people feel that. And I'm not trying to force it on anyone right now. I don't publicly say these things because I know how radical they are, you know. But I think that if someone started saying them, maybe more people would start saying it. Maybe people would start banding together and agreeing, and maybe that's how the platform can actually become a thing. Well, I have to compliment you. You're an excellent listener. You haven't interrupted me once this whole time. So that, you know, and like, you give me a place now where I just speak about this for an hour and a half, that this is actually going to be published is incredible. I'm not going to go and— you know what I mean? I'm not going to go and record myself talking about this as if I am some great authority that you must listen to, you know? Because that is the whole reason this whole world is so, like, just malformed and mal-run and mal-grown. Like, we've just lost completely our purpose here. We just have no idea what we are anymore. Truly. And as soon as you don't know what you are, then you can become anything else. You can be possessed by anything at that point, and anything can maybe feel like what you are. What a sad thing, especially what you hear, especially what impulses guide you. So, you know, maybe we have to start listening a bit more, all of us. You're such an excellent listener. You literally have barely said a word this whole time, and you've given me an opportunity to speak. Usually I'm the one listening. Right, it's nice. Maybe, and maybe when we all start listening, we'll start hearing things from people who maybe didn't have much to say because we were talking over them, right?

It's— you sound like you have such great teachers in the past and mentors. You said you, you even at the beginning mentioned that you, you've been really fortunate to have these teachers. So I want to know a little bit about your upbringing, maybe how did you discover the love for music and then also your mentors and maybe what kind of life, you know, unique life experiences that influenced your you being an artist today?

I've been very blessed with the teachers that I've had recently, but I suppose I had great parents who were— they, you know, they've always been wonderful influences in my life, and they saw that I was musical and they bought a little keyboard that was in the house, and that, cut a long story short, ended up in me studying how to play the keyboard at school. And I had great, wonderful female teachers. I had, um, I can't even remember their names at this point, but I had a line of female teachers when I was about 10 years old in Western Province Preparatory School, and they just did their job. There was nothing extraordinary about it, but they allowed me to explore what I wanted to explore while giving it structure, which is, I suppose, more than you can ask for at that age. Or maybe it's not more than you can ask for. I don't know. I don't know how ambitious I need to be with this response to your question, but in a perfect world, we can get to that shortly. Maybe what it would have been, but I didn't have the great teachers that I had now back then, but everything led me to this point. So, you know, if anything, I have a juxtaposed extreme comparison between what things are like in school and university and what they should be like based on what I'm learning now. So in the long and short of it, yes, school, 10 years old, keyboard, study the keyboard, study music theory from literally 10 years old in school, learn the basics, don't really care about it, don't really understand it fully, do my grade 5 music theory in high school, do a bit of percussion, do a bit of flute, do a bit of piano, meet one of the biggest musical influences in my life, Judith Rhodes Harrison, who took me under her wing They refused to let me study the piano at my high school because I didn't have a qualification. So I then actually had to prove myself, which I didn't realize at the time, but I ended up doing it. I learned a very complicated piece just in my own time and performed it at a nice stead for there. And then she said, I want him as my student. And she took me under her wing and she gave me the greatest gift of my life, that she taught me when no one else would, the piano, which is now my greatest joy. In my life. And she was so incredible. She gave me no— we didn't even have time to do technique. We couldn't even begin to talk about it. But because I had to catch up, right, in terms of repertoire, learning pieces. I think the whole syllabus at schools for music is ridiculous as well. I mean, that's something we can get into as well later. But ultimately, she gave me a place where I felt like, wow, this person believes in me and what I can do on this instrument. And just that was enough. To make me practice and to make me care about it. And then when I got to university, there was none of that left. I won't mention any names. I was not inspired in university. It sucked me dry of my love for music for 5 years. And then I met my current teacher, Richer Dutoit. But before that, I was studying composition. So by that point, by my final years in university, I had actually just given up on becoming a performer, which was always my lifelong dream. I actually ended up injuring my left wrist and I had to leave university for 6 months and just redo my first year because I couldn't even play. And that has been years of healing. I'm still healing from that. I mean, I still lack mobility in my left arm, but I'm starting to gain that back just due to understanding the body, etc. Anyways, but it was only in third year university that I met Hendrik Hofmeyr and sat in his class. And from the moment— I never cared about music theory. I never cared about it. I thought it was the dumbest thing ever. I couldn't understand why we had to learn it. It was so infinitely boring to me. And that first class with Hendrik Hofmeyr absolutely shattered my world. It was like it blew open the infinite possibilities of music in a 2-hour class. And from that point, I became essentially obsessed with Hendrik Hofmeyr. Like I really just wanted to know everything that he knew. And like, I kind of modeled myself after him a little bit at that time. And that's fine because he was a great role model. And like, if you're going to model yourself after anyone, model yourself after someone who's great, who has attributes that are truly good. And he was such a giving person in terms of his wisdom. And he was so patient with me. I had never cared truly about music theory or about academia until that point. And he was so patient with me in how, like, I wasn't organized at that point, you know, I wasn't necessarily accustomed to what the schooling system might expect from a student. And I don't know if he sensed or saw that, but he was so patient with me. So even though I couldn't meet his expectations, I couldn't work as hard as maybe I wanted to work because I was also DJing and producing music at the same time, and I was playing multiple times a week in nightclubs, etc. Parallel worlds. And he believed in me right to the end, that even though I didn't even qualify for my final year in composition class because I was so busy and unable to perform in my examinations, and I became so ill at that time, and a vacancy came, and he said, you can have it if the student will give it to you. Even though I didn't qualify for my final year, he saw that in me and he gave me that opportunity to prove myself, which I did. And I still see him to this day. I'm actually seeing him on Thursday this week. I can't wait to see him. I can't wait to see him. And we just go deep. I mean, like, you don't even understand. You don't even understand the things we talk about. Like, you can't even, you can't even begin to find the things we talk about music, like things that he has studied and knows. And I'm like, I bring my little piece, two cents piece to that, but he knows things that you just you just can't find on the internet, you know, you can't find them in libraries even. He's understood music in ways that very few, I'd say, in history have understood. And that's why I was so captured by him, because I felt, wow, what is this whole world? This guy really knows what he's talking about. This guy really understands music. I want to understand music. I love music. What is this meaning behind it? It's because he understood the meaning and he was able to explain meaning in music legitimately. What's on the page? What does that mean? How do we understand and interpret that meaning, etc.? So that's when I began in my second or third year of university to understand these things. And then I met my current piano teacher, and it was while I was still studying at the University of Cape Town. And I sat down and played for him, and he said, your entire technique is wrong. Everything that you do is away from the piano. Like, I'm sorry, but you just know nothing about performance at all. And it really affected me. I remember leaving that meeting thinking, wow. And he played, and I mean, he could play a PPP if he wanted consistently, you know. He could play 20 different dynamic levels between pianississimo and pianississimo. You know, and I just had no control whatsoever over my sound. And so I was extremely talented and Judith Rotarison, who took me under her wing, gave me so much beauty in terms of how to think about phrasing and music and interpretation. And she inspired me in those ways as a teacher should as well. But we never had time to do technique and they certainly have no interest at my university to try and recover poor technique. They just say, well, you didn't learn the technique, so there's nothing we can do for you. You've got to go learn that in your own time. They don't actually show you what you have to do. Because they're lazy and they don't actually care about their students' developments and they probably got their jobs from pals, you know. But anyway, so I met Reche and he blasted my whole world to smithereens. I mean, that was like, I almost felt like completely defeated because I've, my whole career as a pianist was very talented, but I completely plateaued at that point for years because my talent only took me to a certain place. And, you know, I felt what probably most pop artists feel as well, that they can't express themselves beyond a certain point because they just don't have the understanding to move outside of that. Anyways, so he sent me away and I couldn't see him at that point because I was still studying at the University of Cape Town. And when I left the University of Cape Town, then I went and performed as a DJ at his daughter's wedding for free. She was a friend of mine, we studied together. She's probably the best operatic singer in South Africa, one of the greatest who's ever lived, probably. She is truly angelic in the way that she sings, and that's because he has taught her the bel canto style from the 2nd century in Italy, the true bel canto. And she can sing like an angel. You just have no idea. I mean, you hear this woman's voice, it's like you're transported to another world. It's truly something special, and that's the effect that I'm talking about that music can have on an audience. So I've had the joy of singing with her, accompanying her, singing, playing. We played together, you know, but I played at her wedding for free. And through that gesture, he made space for me in his classes. Very full, he doesn't have time for many people, but he saw me. Like I said, please, can I have a piano lesson with your dad? And I sat down with him and he said, play me anything. And I played him a Scriabin etude. He said, very musical, Liam, but Your fingers don't work. We have to start right from the beginning. And I literally played C major scale for 6 months in my 20s, paying thousands a month. You know, C major scale for 6 months was the best thing that I've ever done because in a year or two after I started with him, I gained good control over my sound. And that's when the improvisations really start to sound good, like in the hall. Like Return to the Baxter Theatre was where it kind of started, like I started getting control. And then Endler Hall, I had some control. The way I play now is leaps and bounds, miles, years, decades more than that. But I just haven't had— I haven't been bothered to record. Why would I? You know, I'm not— nothing's going to come of that. So I, I just wish to continue to cultivate my technique. And, you know, if I can have a One day, I still see them, as I said, weekly. I'm still learning with Rushey, and there's so much to learn. Like, I know nothing compared to him, and it's such a joy to feel that. Like, wow, this person cares about me, they inspire me, they believe in me, but also they know so much that I could almost maybe never even know what they know. Like, even if I was with them my whole life, like, I wouldn't be able to learn everything he knows. But maybe I'll learn some of it, you know, and then it's my duty to maybe make professional observation— observations as a student outside of that, and to start to learn things based on intuition, based on what I was taught. Great master, you know, maybe then that's how I surpass the master one day when I'm his age, when I'm 70-odd years old. But I mean, it's lifetimes and lifetimes worth. I mean, if you go onto his website and you look at who he studied with, you will pass out. I'm talking students of Zoltán Kodály, students of Tovey, students of multiple students, students of Tobias Maté, the great fundi of piano technique who no one talks about, by the way, who has got books that will teach you on how to play the piano, and you won't even be able to decipher what he's talking about unless one of his students teaches you. It will just sound like nonsense to you unless you actually have a student of Tovey explain to you. What is in that. And so he studied with these great masters, and it's just such a blessing to see him on a weekly basis and become a better artist every single week. Even if I don't have time to practice, I'm a bit— I'm a better pianist, I'm a better musician every week just from that 1-hour class. And like, wow, imagine all music universities were like that. And then imagine we could bridge the gap between the public and the music industry. And imagine we were all just developing, like, on a weekly basis. Can you imagine what world we live in? I can't even imagine it. Like, I, I think once again, a world worth living for. So I just want to get to a point now where I can maybe play and inspire people a little bit, maybe expand their consciousness a little bit with my performance, maybe make them think about things a little bit. I don't know what extent that goes to even. Like, what, what is the extent of a musical performance? What, what, what can we even achieve? Maybe one-on-one, one-on-two, one-on-ten. What can we achieve through that performance in terms of like spiritual development in someone? If we track, like, if we truly align, if they truly are able to receive us where we are, what can we even achieve through a single performance? I believe that you can leave a performance awestruck and feeling like you're more than you were before that performance. And that's what every single concert should be.

I know you promote South African composers too. I wanted to ask, but—

What a beautiful thing South African music is. It's a whole world that hasn't even really been understood fully by the outside world. I mean, like, they haven't scratched the surface. At all. There's such a rich history even in Western classical art music in South African musical composers. And like, I'm certainly not an authority there, but there are authorities that are alive and they have information and knowledge about music that's unusual, that's different to what is taught globally. Certain living composers like Hofmeyr, well, he's a special case for sure. His knowledge is just unsurpassed in my personal view. And I'm not biased. I actually think that I'm quite impartial when it comes to— and that I see BS instantly. And unfortunately, the whole music industry almost is run by BS. But, you know, he's so good. But, you know, we have people here in South Africa who know things that aren't in history books and aren't in text— in textbooks. You know, we've got a world authority on Gregorian chant at the South African College of Music. World authority. We've got a world authority on Arnold Schoenberg, who's still alive to this day, Professor James May. And I mean, no one knows who that is. I mean, I could say that and like, yeah, I don't know. There's a lot here to be explored and I'm certainly not an authority, but I tried to do my part to just give back because I saw in them what the world didn't see in them, that they have something special. They know something special, right? So I did my little bit to give back by making score videos, by uploading. But South African composers, we're really behind here. You know, we're still a developing country. You know, I like to call us a fifth world country because we're just that far behind in terms of technological progress and advancements. I mean, for example, data here is unbelievably expensive. You know, even to get like 6 gigabytes of data is like hundreds of rands. So we're so behind in that sense that we don't even have access to the internet and technology the way that the rest of the world does. Right. So for that reason, like South African composers, especially those who were born in the apartheid era, you know, that have been segregated themselves now through kind of reverse apartheid, who now, well, they were white Afrikaans composers born in apartheid, and therefore we should actually ignore everything they did and wrote. So that discrimination— Hofmeyr is one of those— has cost him a career. You know, he is such a genius. He's won the Queen Elizabeth Composition Award. He is internationally renowned as a top South African composer, and yet, I mean, he lives a very kind of comfortable life, and no one really gives him the appreciation that he deserves. He's never in his career been appreciated for what he truly is. And I've, you know, that's definitely another reason that I'm motivated to create this platform one day, for all of these reasons, to create a platform that actually promotes those who deserve the promotion.

Can you give us a more names of the South African composers that you admire?

Sure, um, Hendrik Hofmeyr, number one. I think that he understands what came before better than anyone, and therefore his music actually develops the rich history of our Western classical art music history, right? Like, he actually develops what came before into something slightly more than that and slightly more personal than what came before. And his style is more kind of late you know, post, post-Romantic Impressionism, you might call it. Like maybe slightly post-tonal, post-Romantic Impressionism, that kind of style. It's really wonderful. Similar to Ravel, similar to, um, what's that wonderful Polish composer's name? He wrote that crazy piano work. Szymanowski. Similar to Szymanowski in some, yeah. Anyway, so there's Hofmeyr. The late Pieter Klatzow was definitely, in his own way, noteworthy, I suppose. He's certainly the most famous South African composer. He didn't really understand music the same way like someone Hofmeyr did, but he had enough intuition and understanding about it that he could kind of develop in his own way what came before. He's also very misunderstood. He and Hofmeyr had a rivalry as well that's undocumented. Hoffmeyer was actually one of his students and they just didn't get on at all. So Hoffmeyer had to teach himself most of what he knows by studying the scores and the history, which is what should be done as well. There should be both of those, the teacher that inspires and then the going through history and actually looking and listening and seeing. So he built his understanding on what came before. Klatzer also had good understanding what came before. He had fantastic relationships abroad. He knew some of the great composers like Stockhausen, for example. He met them, he sat in their concerts, he understood their ethos. He had signed copies, numerous signed copies of their scores and books that were signed by people like that. And so he knew things that were also noteworthy, although as a teacher I found that he wasn't able to effectively translate what he knew into a student. So that was his shortcoming, and I think that his whole career people were frustrated with him and thought that he was a bad teacher for that, and maybe thought that he even didn't know much. But he certainly knew a lot. And when I sat with him in his home and we would talk about this and that, obviously never anything too deep in an afternoon tea conversation, but he knew things. He knew things about composers such as Nadia Boulanger, that his— that her sister that her sister Lily Boulanger was a far better composer than Nadia, and that her music was unknown, for example. And he was a student of Nadia Boulanger. He sat in her classes, so he told me about Nadia Boulanger. He told me about Lily. He told me about their ethos behind music, you know. So he knew these things as well, but those things weren't necessarily seen by the public. So we must be careful of our perceptions of people right off the bat and what they might or might not know, things that might not be spoken in a university classroom even, because maybe that's privy knowledge for those who actually really want to know and who deserve it and who are respectful of the tradition and the history. And they had the biggest impact on me. And then, you know, there are other well-known South African composers like Arnold van Beek, like Dublissi, Hubert Dublissi. There's that living composer, I can't remember his name now, he's touring the United States, but he's also an African-inspired composer, very inspired by African traditional music, but he's classical. You probably look him up. Um, so there's someone living today who's actually made a good career for themselves, but in a way he kind of just— and I'm glad I haven't given a name because he kind of just cribs African music and just transcribes it really directly into Western classical instruments. There's no real flair or anything too interesting there. Um, and then there's just like teachers of those students, and then there are other lecturers throughout South Africa that I don't know too well. That I've had a chat with here and there on Facebook, and it would be a shame for me to even talk about them because I would know very little about them. You know, I haven't had the time to become an expert or authority on this topic, but at least I've made an effort to listen to South African Western classical art music composers from especially the 1800s onwards, especially the 1900s onwards. That's when Van Beek and those composers, Duplessis, etc., were living, and they were composing music that was African inspired. That's when apartheid happened as well. A lot of them are Afrikaans, so you'll hear that Arnold van Beek, that's an Afrikaans name. I think that Mimi Kudzer, the singer, was actually South African, as far as I recall. I could be wrong though. I think that she was one of the greatest operatic singers ever and she was South African. Mimi Kudzer does sound— that's a South African name. In terms of performers, I don't think we've produced too much of note, if I'm honest. Composers, definitely, because of the tradition of African music and the elephant— the elements of African music. For example, in my university course, we studied African music. That was— and world music as well. World music, what even is that, right? But we studied African music. It's kind of like— I think it was included in the first 2 years, as far as I recall. I don't know if it still is. And then you can actually branch off into that. But we've had that influence from native African music in our Western classical art music tradition. And so it has given us kind of like a zesty take on classical music. I would argue that it's given us a bit of an edge actually in our understanding of music because African music itself is so rooted in that wonderful overtone series. And also they do things that are far more rhythmically interesting in my opinion than most Western music does. You have to get to Stravinsky and, you know, what is that 12-tone serialist's name? Schoenberg. I actually know personally the great nephew of Arnold Schoenberg.

Oh yeah?

He is a dance instructor, a ballet instructor, second to none. He's just done Aliyah to Israel. And I mean, he is essentially my piano teacher. In dance. He is like the equivalent because he comes from that great cultural heritage, right? So I know things about Arnold Schoenberg that I probably shouldn't say on camera because, you know, I like to disconnect the personal from the musical. I believe that all we need to know about the music is actually on the page or in the sound, you know, like, and I encourage everyone to do that because otherwise we get this ridiculous notion that we should even disregard that perhaps Beethoven was a great composer because he was a white male who believed in certain, like, you know, racial implications that were just around at the time and that were probably forced on him, etc. Like, if we start to bring that into his music, then it's tainted. We lose the essence of it. So we should forget about what kind of a human being Beethoven and them were and actually just look at the music they wrote. Everything that we need to know is on the page. And I think that the African composers, what's on their pages is pretty noteworthy. Pretty interesting. It's definitely African-inspired. Some of it is overly African-inspired. Some of it has no creativity. It's just cribbed directly from African music, as so much of Western civilization is, is just taking from native societies, right? And I can see why the resentment grows in that. But if we just remove ourselves from ethics for a moment and just see what's on the page, I think that South African composers have South African in particular, African composers in general, but I think South Africa is a hub for classical music like no other place in Africa that I know of. And they really have understood music in ways that just maintains the tradition and builds on the tradition, sometimes by drawing elements of African music into that. And it's noteworthy for that reason. I'd say some of the greatest composers who've ever lived are actually either living here now or have lived here in the past. So yeah, Van Wyk, Duplessis, those are the big names. Klatso, he's now passed away recently. Hofmeyr is alive. And just be careful what other names you might see on Google, you know, because maybe they have a name, but maybe they haven't really done anything to deserve that name. Now, I'm not saying only the names that I've mentioned are noteworthy, but I'd say those are really good starting points for South African class. And there are obviously worlds of music outside of classical music that are also noteworthy and worth studying. The fact that I even have to say that is ridiculous, but I don't want people to be dissuaded just because I'm Caucasian, and I actually am not even technically Caucasian, but, you know, I am what appears to be a Caucasian male talking about Western classical art music, which gets a bad rap. So that's just another layer upon layers that we have to unravel and undo before people can even receive what we have to say and play, right? So I think that, you know, it is worth being careful in how we approach these topics. And I'm not going to name and shame anyone who's actually contributed to the downfall of South African apartheid composers. I'm not going to do that. But they are there and they're living and they're still doing it. And they're trying to— a way to identify them is to identify people who are trying to say that the music theory of the past is irrelevant and that we actually need to make new systems now to understand music. That is a load of nonsense because like a thousand-year-old rich tradition that we haven't even begun to comprehend is certainly not worthless. And they try to attach ethics. As soon as people start to attach ethics and they mix the person behind the music with the music itself, with the page itself, that's when you know, please just stop listening to them because they are doing you a great disservice. They are putting up a gate in front of you that separates you from that beautiful world of art. And that's just what it is. It's just a gate. You can walk through it. Just ignore what they're saying. It's just a distraction. Don't be distracted by the propaganda of the world. Go and listen to it for yourself and draw your own conclusions. And if you want to know about the people behind that music and study them, and that legitimately interests you, then go for it. And if you want to talk about whether they were good people or not, and that genuinely interests you, Go for it, but maybe don't even dissuade people from doing that exploration themselves. Maybe just humbly give your opinion about it and like, be that as it may or not be that. But wow, people putting up gates between the population and like the divine just because of their personal opinion. Like it's borderline idolatry, honestly. Look at me and look at my opinion. 'What I know is so important, you shouldn't listen to them.' You know, what does that have anything to do with that spirit? That spirit is the spirit of distraction that distracts you from divine truth of this world, of this existence. Music is one of the best ways to start to understand that truth that no one knows, by the way, that we only begin to understand in this life, that we can comprehend as much as we need to to gain access to new worlds and new lives after this. But that we can never even begin to comprehend in this life. But I think music is the closest we can get to divine. And many composers have said that to me. Many great artists have said that to me, to my face. Music is the closest that you can get. Martin Schoenberg himself said to me, do you know which music is the closest to God out of any music? And he literally said the music of J.S. Bach. That's the great nephew of Arnold Schoenberg, the inventor of 12-tone music, saying that to my face. Someone like a Schoenberg, saying that to me, that JS Bach is the closest music to God out of any music. Wow. That's not to be taken lightly. And I agree with him.

We're coming to an end and I wish we had more time and we can talk about this forever. But just before we go, what's your next move? What's your next future project or vision as an artist?

So the platform is my end goal. I will bring that about because that's my purpose here. One of them, um, a platform for healing through music and not just through music, but, you know, music integrated with other things, other arts and cultures, and through knowledge of health, et cetera. You know, to do that, I have to work the land that I have now. I own a DJ company. It does very well. I'm expanding it. New Horizons. We just launched the DJ Academy, you know, and that DJ Academy is actually running online. As well. So you can come and join the online classes. We're actually, um, recording in a couple of weeks a pre-recorded DJ course, and it will teach people how to not only mix, etc. Those are the basics, but it'll actually teach people what we were speaking about earlier, how to actually cultivate a meaningful gathering of people on the dance floor and have a positive impact on their very souls and spirits through music. And that is going to be released very soon. Wow, it sounds like the whole interview now kind of like a sales pitch for that, which it's not. So please just know that there was no knowledge of that before, and it's fine. But if you feel called to do that, I just really don't want to devalue anything we've said here by pitching what I have next, because it's tempting to do that even. And it will be good for people. I believe that there are people who really want to be up on that stage, and they want to be able to do that. They want a little bit of glory for themselves, for sure. But we'll reshape their perspectives to understand that actually the glory is not for you, that you need to make sure that the audience are the people having the best time possible, and we'll teach them how to do that. And because I have knowledge of music from my classical upbringing and other upbringings of music outside of classical, and also because I have been DJing for 16 years and producing music for almost the same amount of time, I feel like I can bring something new to the table there and teach people how to really be excellent DJs who can like make money DJing and positively affecting people's lives. So that's kind of like the next big move for me is we're launching this DJ Academy. People can start registering on our website. It's thedjcompany.co.za and it's open. The courses are beginning in March. They're beginning from the 10th of March every Sunday until the end of the month, and then there'll be a monthly course. So you get 4 2-hour lessons a month. It's got the state-of-the-art equipment. We've got CDJ-3000s, Pioneer N9 mixer. And we're launching this course and I'm going to teach people how to heal people with music on the dance floor. What a crazy concept.

What an amazing concept. Wow.

So that's my next big move, right? Because that's what I can do right now. What I can't do is sit in front of my piano and even begin to connect with an audience. I can't do that.

Not yet. Not yet. Yes.

Perhaps we build a world where that's possible. I'd certainly like to see that world come to light. Thank you for having me. I appreciated the platform to talk about these things that have been weighing very heavily on my heart, that I speak about with my peers in private, in closed doors, that the world is feeling and experiencing.

Oh, you're welcome.

Yeah, I hope and pray that we can actually affect a positive change and some of the things that we've spoken about today, if not all of them, by the time that we leave this earth. I think that's a great conquest worth living for.

Wow, what a way to end our episode. Thank you. I thoroughly enjoyed it, and I hope we can keep in touch, and then I look forward to our maybe future conversation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, but before I let you go, we have to do this little silly segment. I'm sorry, after all these, you know, profound conversation, this is really silly, but this is a little fun segment of rapid-fire questions. I'll ask you some silly questions, and then I just want you to answer them as short as possible, but You know, you'd be surprised. All these questions may trigger you to, I don't know, um, please don't trigger me. Okay, it's very, really silly. Okay, question number 1: What's your comfort food?

Pizza.

Oh, cats or dogs?

Dogs.

Sunrise or sunset?

Sunrise.

What skill have you always wanted to learn but haven't had a chance to yet?

Playing the violin.

Mm, okay. What is your word or words to live by?

If you seek the truth of this world, you will find it.

What is the most important quality you look for in other people?

I just want someone who's authentic.

Name 3 people who inspire you, living or dead.

Hendrik Hofmeyr, Richer de Toit, Judith Rodzaris, and all 3 from this.

Name one piece in your current playlist.

I would say Zero Point, Rob Clouth, is the greatest, in my opinion, piece of electronica ever written to this date. Zero Point, the full album, you can actually hear it on my account just because I did that for him. He didn't ask me to do it, I just posted it because I wanted people to hear it because I believe it's noteworthy. And I get nothing from it, by the way. I don't have a large YouTube following, um, but really Zero Point Rob Clouth, that album, the full album. Sit and listen to that with your eyes closed, with a good pair of earphones, and just experience like everything that music could be. Just experience everything that music could be if everyone was like in alignment. Go and experience it for what it is. That, that will get you as close as you can get in my experience, in my personal humble view.

Okay. I will, we'll do that. I'll post it in the, in the show notes as well. Last question, fill in the blank: music is blank.

Music is life.

Beautiful.

There we go.

This concludes this episode of The Piano Pod. Thank you, Liam, for joining my show today and sharing your stories and insights and expertise. So The Piano Pod listeners and viewers, please visit Liam's website at liampitcher.com to learn more about his career. Connect with him via Instagram at Liam Pitcher. You can also check out his work on his YouTube channel at Liam Pitcher as well. You can listen to his albums, including 10 CD albums of improvisations on the piano he released simultaneously. All the links are listed in the description. Thank you to my wonderful audience and fans for tuning in today. If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review it on whatever podcast platform you use. Remember to hit the thumbs up button and subscribe to my YouTube channel if you are watching this episode on YouTube. Follow TPP on social media to get the latest piano news. I will see you for the next episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Liam.

Thank you, Liam.

Bye everyone. Ciao ciao.