Season 4 Episode 4: Dr. Nnenna Ogwo -- Pianist, Educator, Composer, & Founder of Juneteenth LP

The thing that I was reflecting on as far as Juneteenth was concerned is the fact that, you know, if you put yourself in the mind of people who were enslaved at that point, you know, when they got that announcement, it was a General Gordon Granger who made the announcement in Galveston, Texas. You have to imagine what it must have been like to to have your world be as big as the plantation that you worked on, and then suddenly your world got a whole lot bigger. And what Black people chose to do with that freedom, I find, is absolutely extraordinary, because within, like, a couple of decades, you had young Black men studying classical music and living life on their terms. And so this is what I wanted to celebrate, like, this artistic drive and this incredible spirit that sort of pushes us forward as Black people and as Americans.

Welcome back to another episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song, where tradition meets innovation. We bridge the timeless beauty of the piano with the dynamic pulse of today's world. I am your host, Yukimi Song. I am immensely proud of this new season's guest lineup, who are incredibly talented and dedicated in their craftsmanship and bring a rich tapestry of diverse experiences into this show. I truly appreciate their willingness to be on The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song to share their thoughts and expertise, and I really can't wait to unveil each episode to you, letting their stories inspire educate, and resonate. Now, I trust you've had a chance to dive into our previous episodes, and I am genuinely curious to know your thoughts about them. So please share your feedback on social media or drop us a note on our website at thepianopod.com. Your insights are valuable in shaping the direction of the show. Today's episode features an artist whose journey in the piano world is deeply rooted in her background, Caribbean, and African heritage, and whose performances resonate with audiences worldwide. So let me introduce our guest for this episode, Dr. Nana Ogboh, pianist, educator, founder, and artistic director of Juneteenth LP. She's graced stages from Europe to the Middle East, South America to the Caribbean, and of course, the United States. Whether it's a grand concert hall or an intimate gathering, Nana's captivating warmth ensures everyone feels welcomed. Which is central to her mission of broadening the horizons of classical music audiences. In 2019, Nana took a bold step by founding the Juneteenth LP. This collective shines a spotlight on the artistic brilliance of the African diaspora through the unique lens of Black classically trained musicians. Nana has been the driving force behind Juneteenth LP, both as a pianist and executive and artistic director. Her dedication was recognized in 2022 when she received the Chamber Music America Artist Grant. This accolade transformed her annual Juneteenth celebration from a one-night event at Joe's Pub at the Public Theater to a week-long New York City extravaganza. Dr. Oguo's piano journey began at the tender age of 6. She honed her skills at prestigious institutions like Peabody Prep Auburgh Conservatory, the List Academy of Music, and Stony Brook University. She has been honored with the Stern Scholarship, Turner Fellowship, and the Fulbright Award. Today, Dr. Ogbuo is sought after as a concert pianist, chamber musician, concert curator, guest lecturer, and faculty member at various esteemed music institutions. And for those eager to experience her magic, Her solo piano album, Luminous, was unveiled in May 2023 under the MSR Classics label. Before getting started with this special episode with Dr. Nana Ogboah, I want to welcome all our first-timers to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song. I'm a classical pianist and educator from New York City. Whether you're diving deep into your piano career, working professionally in the classical music scene, or simply have a passion for piano tunes, this podcast is your backstage pass to the fascinating piano world. I also want to welcome back and thank you to amazing TPP fans and faithful listeners for tuning in today. Please rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platform because every rating review will help people find the show. So dear TPP fans and listeners, I can't wait to interview Dr. Nana Ogboh to hear about her remarkable musical career and learn what Juneteenth LP is all about. So stick with me till the end of our conversation as it will lead to a more reflective discussion on how how we trained classical musicians should keep classical music relevant and thriving in today's rapidly changing world. So here we go, dear friends. Please enjoy the show. You are listening to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song, where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry about how they are bringing the piano into the 21st century. So welcome, Nana, to The Piano Pod.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for being here. I love, I love your room. I love the painting. I recognize the painting in your background.

I, you know, when you're, when you're doing things on a shoestring budget, you use what you have, and, and I decided this will be a lovely background for my website.

No, it looks like a million bucks. I mean, yeah, and I recognize it from your website, right?

Yeah, it actually is the first piece of art that I ever bought in New York.

Really?

Yeah, there used to be a public auction house called Tepper Galleries on East 25th Street, and I was with my mom and I, I, I was bidding on it, and my mother was looking at me like, what are you— that looks terrible! But I had this huge living room with tons of wall space, and when I put it up, she was like, oh, okay, okay. Yeah, pretty dramatic and powerful. But when I was bidding, she thought I was nuts.

Wow. But somehow it just captures the essence of my impression of you. Anyway, so our mutual, I guess, friend or colleague, Rosemary Kavilia, she is a fellow pianist and educator as well. And my colleague at the nonprofit organization we are both part of is a faithful listener of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with such a wonderful supporter of what I do. And then she emailed me a few months ago and suggested that I should interview you. And so I'm very excited. The biggest shout out to Rosemary. If you are listening, Rosemary, I am sending you positive vibes and appreciation for introducing Nana to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song. While I was learning about you to prepare for this interview, even, you know, within this big umbrella of music or music industry, you do wear many hats. Not only the pianist and educator, but also you are composer, arts advocate, and among many things you do, what I'd like to focus today in this episode is your passion project, Juneteenth Legacy Project, and you're our founder and executive and artistic director. So let's start with that. So what is Juneteenth Legacy Project? Is this an organization program? Who is this for?

First of all, I wanna correct you on one thing. We are actually called JuneteenthLP. The LP does stand for Legacy Project, but there actually is a Juneteenth Legacy Project, which is an arts-based organization in Houston. And I encourage people to find out who they are and what they're doing. They're doing really great work, but it was one of my first lessons in business. I did not grab that domain name. I did not grab that immediately. And so, you know, I went back to it 3 months later and it was gone. So we became Juneteenth LP, but we are a music collective of classically trained, mostly classically trained musicians of the African diaspora. Our mission is to introduce people to classical music by African diaspora composers, but the gateway is more familiar music to them. So we play music of all genres. Toshi Reagon, the amazing musician, artist, activist, had a series at Joe's Pub called her Good Folks series. And she invited me to do this, to do a Juneteenth show, 'cause I had said that's what I wanted to do. She invited me to do the Juneteenth show at Joe's Pub in 2015. And in May of that year, my mother passed away. So it didn't happen. For 2016 and 2017, I shared the event with two other artists, which was a wonderful experience. And through that sharing, the artists that they brought in, I got to meet some of them. And so as we were giving these concerts, the concert was my way of introducing people to classical music by Black composers. And so I played Ulysses K. and I played William Grant Still and I played David Baker and Dorothy Rudd Moore. And people really really enjoyed it. And it was funny because, you know, I started the program and then the other musician ended the program. And, you know, what they were playing was much more contemporary. I thought, even though, you know, there are these two sort of very distinctly different styles, people were really, really receptive to the music that I was playing. But I think that they were not just receptive to what we were playing, they were receptive to the fact that I talked about the music. I talked about the composers. I talked a little bit about their lives and about maybe what they were going through when they wrote the pieces. And I talked about how the music spoke to me, and I invited the audience to engage with, you know, what did they hear? And in the first year, actually, or maybe the second, I did something really interesting. I played a bunch of Scriabin preludes. The Opus 16 Preludes.

Beautiful.

And there are 5 of them. And I played them all, and then I turned to the audience and I said— oh, well, before I said, you know, there are— this set actually reminds me so much of Nina Simone. And I'm curious if you hear what I hear in it. And if you don't, it's fine. But if you do, I'd like to know which one of the preludes. And so I played them all, and there was one that I was specifically thinking about, right? And they said number 1, number 5, number 3, and I thought, huh, because number 4 was the one.

Okay.

Absolutely attached, absolutely attached to Nina Simone. There's something very haunting and lonely about her voice when she's singing ballads, or even when she's singing tunes that should be a little bit more upbeat, there's still a profound sadness sometimes that comes through, and so this prelude which just has this melody, da da da di da da dum, da da di da, and then chord, chord, and then the harmony changes, right? That, I mean, it broke my heart every time I heard it, every time I worked on it, and I said, so number 4, no one? And then, you know, the audience went Oh yeah, I could, I hear that, you know what I mean? But everyone had different, you know, ideas of what, and different things appeal to them. And I thought, wow, you know, music is fascinating. There's what I think and what I feel, and then there's everybody's going to receive it in a different way, in a different context. I was kind of struck by the fact that this was a real opportunity to have a much more intimate relationship with the audience. Than I ever would, right? Because normally we get on stage, we play, we bow, we maybe say a few words, maybe about our encore, and then, you know, that's done. And so there's this kind of mystery of being a classical pianist or musician or performer. And this way I got to talk to people about, you know, my process and what I was thinking of and why I chose this and, you know, the connections from composer to composer. And so finally, in 2018, I had met enough musicians who were really interested interested in what I was doing and really sort of like, yeah, we wanna support you. We wanna do this and we wanna support you. And you know, that is really profound and significant, especially in New York, 'cause it's very hard to make a living. It's very hard to, it's just the daily grind is hard. And when musicians say, yeah, we're willing to rehearse every week, every 2 weeks, and we're willing to put in this time and we're willing to, we want to, we do wanna give concerts in the community and we do wanna do outreach, and they kind of trusted me to find the money, you know, and sort of helped with like, there are two people specifically who became part of like the team, you know. And so we sort of together were able to build something. And I, you know, I don't take any of that for granted. Like as much as it says, you know, I'm the executive and artistic director. Yeah, this was a team and it is a team in a lot of ways.

Just to go back a little bit. So I read your bio and then the Juneteenth LP was officially formed in the year 2019, I believe. That's a year before the, you know, of course, largest Black Lives Matter movement in 2020. And then so when I visited your website, I also heard the audio file of your statement in 2016 at the Joe's Pub in downtown Manhattan. So what to, you know, what to become of, you know, Juneteenth LP down the road. Spent years in the making, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And what, what really inspired you is— it sounds like it's a gradual thing to form this, but was there a specific event or experience that really inspired you to create it, or was it more like a gradual thing, started something small and became what it is today?

Definitely there was a seed, and the seed was this annual Juneteenth celebration at Joe's Pub. And then the more musicians that I met that were kind of simpatico with this idea that I had, the more I realized this could be something more than just one show, you know, in the year. And also I started paying attention to how people were reacting to the concert. We got a lot of kids coming up to musicians with stars in their eyes, like, "I didn't know the violin could do this." You know, we had this violinist who wrote this piece called Evolution. His name is Ed Hardy, and he sort of musically charted in this piece, you know, music. And it went from spirituals to hip-hop and scratching on the violin. And it was really kind of potent. But what was really amazing was watching these kids say, I play violin and I didn't know I could do that. I didn't know it could be like that. To watch him and the other musicians interact with these kids, like, Yeah, there are tons of things you can do with this instrument. You know, this is, you know, the whole point of practice is to play and explore and to, you know, so I was really kind of moved by that and realized that we could reach people in a way that was so much greater. Classical music audiences are small, right? And our concern is that it's dying off, right? That that it's definitely an older community that really, really loves classical music and then grew up with it. And I think that my mom's generation is probably the last of the generation that sort of classical music was in the general, in the air generally, right? Now classical music is very sort of specific. And because it's specific, if you don't know the language and you don't know the codes to get in, you don't know how to access it, even if you love it. This provided an opportunity to reach so many more people and to reach people who would not necessarily think that they love classical music, but that they hear it and they go, "That was gorgeous," or, "That was so interesting. I'd like to know more about this composer." One of the things that people ask me a lot is, "What is the impact you want your ensemble to have?" And then, "What is the impact you think it actually does have?" And I think that I would say that what I want is for it to open people's ears, you know, open people's minds and open people's hearts. Nina Simone was interviewed once and she said, you know, we're all walking through the world in a way a little dead inside. Like we're just getting through our day, you know, and we're dealing with our things. And so we don't really see what's around us and we don't really interact with what's around us. It's just we're getting through. And so we're all walking around kind of like zombies. And what I want— what she said, she said, what I want to do with my art is I want people to feel something, anything, just to feel something, to shake us out of that space. And I thought, you know, that's it. I just want people to feel something, and I want people to, to know that this music that is considered very elite and rare and, you know, all of those things, that actually they have a cultural history with it as well. Like, it is not something that they have to be on the outside looking in, that their grandparents and their great-grandparents, you know, broke barriers and were the first Black conductor and, you know, and the first Black composer to win this prize and the first Black, you know, violinist. That there's a long history of Black people in classical music and that they should know it as they know, you know, the history of African Americans in America, for example.

Now, there are so many ways to look at this. So let's, let's go back, talk about the mission of your Juneteenth LP. And you briefly mentioned, but are you looking for, let's say, platform to give the general audience to get to know the classical music by maybe doing in such a way that it's more inviting? Or in the end, do you want to promote inclusion in classical music? Or maybe both?

I was about to say, I'm not sure that those are mutually exclusive at all. You know, I do want it to be more inviting and also multigenerational, right? So we play music by Black classical composers, but we also play, you know, we'll play a Lizzo arrangement and we'll play some arrangement of Stevie Wonder and we'll play an arrangement of Nina Simone and we'll play some Duke Ellington. And so all of a sudden you have a show in which like a 7-year-old is delighted that they hear something that they recognize, but also grandma and grandpa are delighted that they hear something that they love and recognize. And in between, they're also being exposed to such a wide breadth of different composers, and so that it's something that people can share sort of within the whole family, and that's wonderful. But also an introduction to, you know, you love song. Well, H.T. Burleigh wrote some of the most beautiful art songs, and some of them were arrangements of spirituals, which I know you know because, you know, you're a churchgoing person in your family. My family's from the South originally. So here's this music that is a part of your legacy, but you didn't realize also lives in the classical music canon. But I also think that classical music needs to sort of rethink how it wants to present itself, you know? And I think that contemporary classical composers, a lot of them are grappling with this and they're sort of writing in a way that's challenging norms and, trying to get people to listen differently and think differently about the music. But also I think that we need to invite people who are not necessarily white and wealthy to— because if we don't grow that audience, it will become tinier and tinier and tinier until there's— until we have— you know what I mean? Why not grow the audience so that we can actually make sure that the kids that we're teaching who want to be pianists will have audiences to play for? You know?

Yeah, we are raising the audience also. Yes, not just the music players. I know, I totally understand. Now I'm curious to know how you are accomplishing this mission. So is it by the concert series or just one event? Or tell us.

So we have sort of grown out of this, you know, one show. We've grown into sort of a Juneteenth festival week where we present more than one concert. We do about 3 or 4, and we do like video concerts for other places where it's like, you know, it's really expensive for 8 people to go to Boston. So, you know, Bunker Hill Community College, we do a Juneteenth show for them that is recorded. But we also do lectures and workshops and master classes and things like that.

Throughout the year or?

Yeah, throughout the year.

Really?

Yeah, mostly January to June, but throughout the year. One of the things that I'm realizing is that because I am the artistic director of Juneteenth LP, a lot of times what I do also becomes sort of a reflection of the ensemble as well. So when I give a masterclass or when I present concerts and lectures, it is something that I always make sure to mention Juneteenth LP, like we're sort of interconnected unity. It's not, sorry, interconnected entities. It's not just I'm a solo artist and I'm a teacher and I do these things and then there's Juneteenth LP and that's a completely different thing. Often we find, I find that we're working very much in conjunction, like our missions are the same, whether it's me individually or me as part of a group and our intentions and our goals and our aesthetics principles are the same. So I'm still trying to sort out how that's going to work. Ultimately, but the drive is similar. And so sometimes we do things hand in hand. Like, for example, my album is actually sort of— has been released under the Juneteenth LP umbrella of recording projects. It's just the first of a bunch of recording projects that we have.

Oh, you mean the latest album that you— it's your solo album, right? Yeah, we're going to talk about that later, but the title is Luminous.

Yes.

Right, which is available on major—

MSR Classics label was— we released it through MSR Classics, and it's available wherever you stream music.

You know, on the Juneteenth LP website, it says, quote, Juneteenth LP brings together unexpected classical music and brilliantly crafted arrangements of more popular repertoire for a refreshing take on live performances and educational music experience. Experiences. So I'm curious, what are you guys playing, and what are unexpected classical music, which I can almost guess, and a brilliantly crafted arrangement? And you mentioned that there are sometimes you do the arrangement by, you know, Stevie Wonder to many other— like, I saw an arrangement by Childish Gambino, and then yeah, also Mungo Santa Maria, Afro Blue. Yeah, I saw that arrangement as well. So who does these arrangements? And also, what are these? So you are doing popular music and also probably African-American— classical music as well. So tell us.

When I was— I'm gonna go back a little bit. When I was a kid, I actually— the first music camp I went to was a school for composers, a summer school for composers. It was called the Walden School, and it's up in New Hampshire. It still exists. It's a wonderful, wonderful institution. And in that space, I got introduced to theory, ear training, and composition. And their philosophy is really interesting. It's basically that whatever they're teaching, it's orally based. So it's— you don't know it unless you can hear it. You can hear it, you can take dictation on it, you can sing it, you can, you know, which is very different. And I didn't realize how different it was till I got to college. And so it's a wonderful— it was a wonderful experience. But what it did was it also introduced me to the idea of everyone is and can be a composer and should be to some extent. If you are in music, you should also be composing. You don't have to be composing like you're a serious composer and you're out getting commissions and that's how you earn your living, but you should always be playing around with your instrument and making stuff up. Who does the arrangements? Well, I have tackled some arrangements, and because we were going to be doing more different genres, I started taking jazz piano lessons, which was a hilarious experience because I will admit right now that I was a terri— I am a terrible student in so many ways because there's no time, right? And jazz is not one of those, oh yeah, you know, I play classical music and I have great chops, and so I'll just pick this thing up. Some people can and do, but that's a different— that's almost a different talent, you know what I mean? Like, they— and, you know, and it's so funny because people say, well, you play the piano, you should be able to do this. And I'm like, yeah, not necessarily. It's different.

No, no, I know, I know. I tried, I tried it miserably. Fail, right? I totally understand. Yes.

What's fascinating about studying jazz piano is that you're forced to— you have to reconcile yourself to the fact that our training, for the most part— I know that there are places that train musicians really, really well, but for the most part, in classical music, we are very visually attached to the page, and then we render the page, right? And You know, I've been— I've had people say to me, well, that isn't very creative. And I said, well, actually it is because you make choices, what you want to bring out, what you think is important. You know, you're basically a field guide for the listener. This is the line I want you to hear, and this is how it— you know, I'm shaping a phrase in a certain way, but it's subtle and it's nuanced. And I can understand that it feels very different from a jazz type of form where you are creating in the moment. But as you and I both know, in every piano lesson we ever took, our teachers would tell us, exhort us to play in such a way that it sounds like we are creating this music in the moment. Right? So from a very different way, like almost like a backwards way around, we are studying the score and learning and studying context and history so that we can come to this place where it sounds like we are making the music as we— you know what I mean? We are creating it as we play it. And jazz musicians actually just create it, right? And what is fascinating about that is you can think that you know harmony, but creating as your harmonic language shifts in time, and, and, you know, in time, like harmony shifting in time, and you have to— it just moves like the second hand of a clock just moves. You don't get to revisit. I didn't like how that goes, and so I'm going back. It's, we're on to the next, you know.

Right, right.

You know, if you're playing a 12-bar blues, let's swing around and it'll come back again. You get to try again. But this is what it is, and it's a very— it took a long time for me to let go of the, I didn't, I didn't like that, let me fix it. But once you do start to do that, and once you start, you allow yourself to be not comfortable, because that's the thing we work so hard to make it perfect that there's a level of I am prepared and I am secure that absolutely does not exist. Well, at least not as a jazz student. I'm sure if you're Ron Carter, it exists, but it doesn't exist for me, and it doesn't exist for most people who are just starting, where it is a whole other world.

I totally understand. So during the program of Juneteenth LP, you combine this jazz elements and then with the classical elements and then pop too, right? Wow, that is really, really cool because I would love to attend that.

Yeah, I mean, you're always welcome, and I would be delighted to get you a ticket. But what's interesting is that because I started studying jazz and I started saying, can we arrange this tune? Like, I thought Afro Blue would be perfect for us. Let's arrange it. And I was working with Neil Kirkwood at Third Street, and he, you know, he would help me with some arrangements, but also, you know, I would tweak a lot of the things. And so it was a real collaborative process, which I enjoyed, but I started to become a little bit more comfortable with improvising. And then we started sort of Well, there's this song and we all love it, but we're going to have a break where individuals can solo. And I would be soloing sometimes and it was terrifying. It still actually is.

But, you know, are you improvising?

I am improvising all the time. It is nuts. And you know what's really funny? In the same way that when, you know, you give a concert and you think, oh, that was okay, I didn't like the way I did this and I didn't like the way I did that. And then a month later you listen to the concert and you say, wow, that was really good. Why did I think it wasn't good? That was really good. It's the same thing. Like, I will improvise and, well, whatever, just keep moving. It wasn't— I don't know. Hopefully nobody noticed. And then I listened to it and I think, well, that wasn't terrible at all.

Hello, right?

That's great.

That's awesome.

And so it's teaching me to be okay with uncertainty and to be okay with not being able to control everything.

That is a very different concept from classical performance.

Yes. But I think that what you need to be in control of when you're improvising, you need to be in control of the harmonic language. Like, you need to know that. And then with that framework, you know, the world is your oyster, but also terrifying.

Yes. Oh! Oh! One of the things that was monumental was that obviously 2020 of the Black Lives Matter movement. And then you are already starting the Juneteenth LP before that, right? And then so the 2020, the year 2020 of the Black Lives Matter movement, which brought the day, Juneteenth, to many people's awareness finally, and especially unfortunate death of Mr. George Floyd. And of course, finally Juneteenth became a federal holiday in 2021. So I'd like to know your own personal experience of that year as much as you can. I know it's still a sensitive topic, but because you have already started this project before that, and what's been like with your Juneteenth LP journey since then?

Well, when I started, I was kind of— I was talking about the fact that I wanted to celebrate Juneteenth Freedom Day, right? It's called Freedom Day or Liberation Day. I wanted to celebrate it from an artist's standpoint, so I wanted to celebrate these musicians who post-Juneteenth, their world was far more open than it had ever been. And I'm not saying that it was easy and all of a sudden people had access to everything, but you had the opportunity possibly to have a life that wasn't plantation-bound necessarily, right? And so, um, what did people do with that freedom? And taking that step into the unknown is actually a terrifying thing. Like, if you were raised in a plantation system, or if you were raised in subjugation, or you were raised in, you know, one kind of climate, and then you decide that you want something different for yourself, you know, and it's, it's sometimes not as obvious as slaved and then not enslaved. You know, slave and then free. It is sometimes as, it can be as nuanced as you come from a family of people who believe that the next generation should lift up the next generation. And so everyone is going to go to college and become a professor or a doctor or a lawyer or whatever. And then someone says, yeah, but I want to paint. That is a scary and terrifying path to take if that's not the norm for your family, your tribe, your environment, right? And so I wanted to sort of celebrate these people who were invariably incredible risk takers, even if they came from musical families. Just to be Black in America and to be doing what they were doing was something extraordinary. And the fact that they persisted, like, in the face of incredible difficulties, they persisted. But then, you know, when, when George Floyd was killed, it was very interesting. And people ask you what, you know, what was— how did you deal with it, or what you were going through? And, and honestly, and I apologize if this is, um, this feels harsh, but the hardest thing was realizing to what extent I was people's only Black friend. And so what I got was a lot of other people feeling bad and then thinking they were going to feel better by reaching out to me. Do you know what I'm saying? And, and in fact, I didn't feel shock for— oh, also, you should know, I didn't watch the video. I didn't watch the video because What happened to George Floyd has been happening to Black people for centuries, whether it was a lynching or, you know, police violence. I mean, you know, Rodney King was videotaped, and that was 1992, I believe. And what was traumatic about that was not that it happened, because we knew things like that happen, But the fact that there was video and yet it seemed to leave the world relatively unchanged. Do you know what I mean? Like this reckoning that we had post-George Floyd, there should have been a reckoning like that after the Rodney King assault, but there wasn't, you know? And it seemed to me that, I think that there was something particularly gruesome about George Floyd's death and the fact that we now live in a viral age. So you can miss the Rodney King thing if you hadn't been watching TV at that time, but you could not escape what happened with George Floyd. It was everywhere. And so for me, I was more grieving at how often it seemed to happen. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. And in some ways the world changed. And so I'm grateful for that. And I'm grateful that— I'm very happy. I'm, I'm of course happy that Juneteenth is now a federal holiday, but, but it also made me realize there's something bizarrely, um, there's something a little bit obscene with how immediately, suddenly there were Juneteenth events. Do you know what I mean? Like that. And it reminded me, oh yeah, this is a business too, isn't it? And so, yeah, yeah, you know, and I'm glad that there are events, but also there's something a little bit gross about it, you know. It's hard, you know, like it's not a, it's not a fun conversation to have. But, but like I said, I'm, I'm really grateful that it's, you know, it should have, it should be a national holiday. So I'm glad that it is.

But, you know, by asking this question, I don't mean to like put you in a place or spot where you are like all of a sudden the representative of this whole entire, you know, Juneteenth or, you know, Black Lives Matter movement. No.

And I didn't receive it that way at all.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I appreciate the question because it allows me to sort of, you know, I don't think I've articulated this I've had an opportunity to articulate this, and so I was— I'm glad to do it. I think that, um, I, I, you know, it's funny, I, I have a— I, I say this to my friends often. There are a lot of things that were made possible because of George Floyd's death, and it is horrible and horrifying that that was the case, but I mean, it changed us, and I'm glad it did, you know, because it would be, it would be appalling if something weren't like that were to happen and it didn't change us, right? You know, even, you know, you could argue whether it's changed us societally a lot or a little, but I'm, I'm grateful and I'm devastated that, you know, people had to lose their, you know, like like a family had to lose someone that they loved, you know, for this to happen. It's, it's kind of like, um, you know, like when, when Martin Luther King was assassinated and Malcolm X were assassinated— was assassinated— you kind of— those were turning points in American, you know, history. But did someone have to die? Did children have to lose their parents? Did a woman have to— did women have to lose their husbands behind that? But I don't know, I'm getting a little—

I know it's a very tough topic, and I'm sorry, um, but I appreciate you for really opening up and telling me because it's important to talk about, and we, we need to do better too, you know. It's not just that her— his death, but I think we have to do even better. So, you know, thank you for opening up. So just to sort of change the mood of our conversation, I really want to congratulate you for all the hard work you spend with the— especially Juneteenth LP. And then your dedication was finally recognized in 2022, last year, when you received the Chamber Music America Artist Grant. And this accolade transformed your annual Juneteenth celebration from a one-night event at the Joe's Pub at the Public Theater to a week-long New York City extravaganza. Congratulations. So I know to get a grant from the government, right? And that's not easy, extremely difficult.

Yes, Chamber Music America is, I think, a private organization. But yeah, I mean, this year I am applying for city and state grants. You know, it is a long and arduous process, and I was very lucky to have one of my team members who was just there. And, you know, it took us consistent work over together, working together over the course of a month to prepare this grant proposal. But what was really interesting about it was that it really does lay the groundwork for— we, so we got to learn how to apply for grants from an organizational level, or, you know, and, and it, it's a, it's a different thing from— as it's different from applying for a grant as an individual. And so that was an incredible sort of steep learning curve. And as I am applying for grants now in this round, it's a lot easier in some ways. I don't have the same team members, but it is easier because that groundwork was laid, you know. But I will say that it is a constant struggle of getting your projects funded, getting, you know, getting funding for your projects so that you can present. And I tell people all the time, I feel like it is that no matter what I do, there's always this next challenge on the horizon that is unlike anything I've done before. And so it feels like I'm a beginner again and again and again. And I thought to myself, but you know what, I remember telling students you have to be unafraid to not know what's going on, that you have to be okay with not knowing because eventually you, you work at it and then you will know. But then there'll be another challenge, you know.

I know. Totally, totally. But congratulations. That's a big thing. And then, you know, I really hope to attend the future events. And, you know, and I know this Juneteenth LP is going to be even bigger. And then because the message is right. And so I also want to know a little bit about other musicians who are involved. Like who's the member or who would be the guest?

One of the first people that I met doing the show was cellist Eric Cooper. He's a really amazing musician, but also he has a quartet called Sterling Strings, and this quartet does really amazing work. And they do these great arrangements of popular music. Their improvising chops are wonderful. And it's very funny when we're in rehearsal because, you know, we're doing Childish Gambino or Lizzo or whatever. And they're like, yeah, you know, we're very familiar with this. Let's just play it through and go. And I'm like, I am not familiar with this. I am not familiar with improvising. And I need to play it more than once. So we're coming from very different places. And they're like, yes, no problem. I'm like, oh my gosh, this is so hard. But it's great to be able to work with an ensemble that is so capable in that way. And so we have a singer and we have our newest singer is Kristen Devine. She has this really wonderful voice and it's been a pleasure working with her. And we have this fabulous, fabulous percussionist Shirzad Tinnan, who is just absolutely brilliant. She and her ensemble opened up the Women in Jazz series up here in Harlem.

I—

oh, I I can't believe I forgot to mention. So our first violinist, Frederique Namam, is an African-Caribbean violinist from the Boston area, and she is a powerhouse arranger. And so she's been doing a lot of our arrangements. But also this year, I believe Shirazet is going to do a couple of arrangements for us. And so we're just kind of collecting these musicians that vibe with us well. I just feel really lucky. Met a group of musicians that we— and not only do we enjoy playing together, you know, it's a really great energy, but also we just enjoy hanging out.

That is wonderful. That's a dream come true. It's very hard to collaborate, but that speaks volumes about you. You know, you have that ability to put things together, put people together. So what would you like your audience to experience from attending the concerts?

I want them to hear music they've never heard before and hopefully be delighted by it and hopefully be interested and engaged, you know. I want them to come away with it thinking, I want to know more about Margaret Bonds, I want to know more about William Grant Still, I want to know more about whomever we presented. That's, that's what I want. And what's great is that we live in an era where they can literally put that in their phone and pull up, you know, whatever Trevor Weston's got, whatever Nkiro Okoye has got, you know, there's a SoundCloud for that, you know, there's a Spotify. Primarily that's what I want. And also I want them to hear pop standards or, you know, blues standards or whatever in a different way because we're playing it. There are strings. How much Marvin Gaye have you heard that's been, you know, string centered, string-heavy, or string-forward.

Oh, I would love to hear that.

Yeah, I mean, you know, it's a lot of fun and it's a lot of— it's really engaging.

Before I, you know, we go to the next segment, which is about your life, but I want to ask one last question from this Juneteenth LP. What did you gain, or what important life lesson did you experience from launching and building The Juneteenth LP.

What I've learned is that the most important thing that you can do is to put one foot in front of the other. It doesn't matter if it feels like it's working. It doesn't matter if it feels like it's right. Just, you have to get up and you have to put one foot in front of the other. And my mother used to talk about this. She struggled, you know, as we all do. And I, and I remember saying to her, how, how were you able to do that? How were you able to work from 3 PM to midnight because they wouldn't give you a reasonable shift at the hospital and then get up at 6 in the morning to take me to school? Like, how, how did you do that? And she said two things. She said, well, first of all, when you have kids, you become capable of all kinds of things that you know darn well you could not do if you didn't have these kids. To take care of. But also, and I'd heard her say this to more than a few people, I'm just stumbling and bumbling along. Like, it doesn't look right, it doesn't feel right, it doesn't seem like I'm succeeding. I'm just— today I'm gonna get up and I'm gonna try again. That's the thing that is the most important thing. And I think that people who build things that last just persist. Do you remember that speed skater? What's his name? Eric Heiden? There was a speed skater who kept in the Olympics, and the Olympics every 4 years, he kept skating and like he'd make it to the— and he would fall, he would fall, he would not be able to finish, and he was always, he was always clearly like the best, they expected him to win, and yet something would always happen, and something would always happen. I think it was like his 4th Olympics. Do you know how old— like, athletes do not have a long shelf life, right? Right. And when he finally broke through and won, it was like the whole world was unified in this moment of, my gosh, like, yes, you know? And in a way, he will be remembered forever. I get choked up when I remember his breakthrough, do you know what I mean? And I And I remember where I was watching each time he didn't and each time he crashed and burned and sort of, you know, the family's watching the Olympics again and then it happened. It takes what feels like forever to achieve the thing that you're trying to achieve. Your job is not to predict when your success is going to happen and your job is not to, you know, you're not in charge of the universe. You don't get to know if it's going to happen tomorrow, if it's going to happen in 20 years. Your job is to get up in the morning and say, I am committed to this thing that I'm gonna do, and so I'm gonna do it. And sometimes it is exhausting, and it is lonely, and it is frustrating, and, and you're, you're, you feel broken half the times that you're doing it. But also, when you do get to that level, you realize that you are enjoying it because you knew what it took, right? And then also you realize, oh, there's another mountain, right? I climbed this. Oh, there's another mountain, right? Yeah. I'm comfortable because it is always striving and always climbing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear you. And thank you for the reminder because, you know, sometimes when I do this podcast, I enjoy it, but it's like you said, one foot in front of the other. It's like every day you do this, that matters. It's not about when you achieve, how much you achieve, right? So, hey there, TPP family. The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song is now into our 4th season, and it's all thanks to you. Since 2020, you've been with my journey with the TPP, exploring the this burning question: How do we make classical music resonate with today's audience in fresh and captivating ways? 4 years in, and the journey has been nothing short of magical. The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song isn't just a podcast; it's a movement, a space where pianists, composers, and educators brainstorm, debate, and reimagine classical music's place in our fast-paced world. We're together on a mission: to ensure classical music doesn't just survive but thrives in our modern age. But here's the thing: to keep bringing you these insightful biweekly episodes, I need your help. Every bit of support goes into the podcast's essentials, from hosting to high-quality recording tech and the countless hours behind the scenes. So, do you want to be part of this journey? Click the PayPal link in the show notes or head to thepianopod.com to donate. And as a token of appreciation, I will personally mail you The Piano Pod's snazzy logo sticker. So hit the subscribe button, spread the word, and let's continue our mission and journey as classical musicians. Now let's continue with the show. You mentioned briefly about your mother, so I know your mother was— be the big part of your who you are today. So I want to start with this: how did you discover your love for music?

Well, ironically, my father was an audiophile, so he had this in the basement. He had set up, you know, those wall systems that just— we have like two walls of records and a sound system, and he would sit down and just listen to music down there. And so I have memories of listening to music in the basement with my father, all different kinds of music. He— my father's Nigerian and he came to Howard University to study. And in fact, that's where my parents met. And he took an intro to music course. And so it's fascinating to me. One of his favorite composers was Beethoven, but he also fell in love with, with music of the Renaissance. I was listening to, you know, Lassus and Palestrina really early. You know, I was listening to Beethoven and Bach, but also Aretha Franklin, you know, the whole Motown sound, but also Patsy Cline, you know, also, um, what's his name, the man in black, Johnny Cash, like just such a wide range, you know, The Beatles, you name it, like just an incredibly wide range of music. And then when I was in school kids were picking instruments and I came home saying, "I'm gonna learn how to play the violin." I didn't really love the violin, but everyone was playing the violin, so I wanted to play the violin. And, uh, the music teacher at the school said, "Yeah, I think that she's actually kind of gifted, and I think that what you need to do is put her on the piano, and then she can choose to do whatever she wants from that point, but you should put her on the piano to start." And that teacher was also the teacher that, uh, suggested that my parents take me to Peabody Prep. To audition.

Wow. Yeah. So one thing led to another. Oh, I mean, I'm sure you really worked hard and then there were ups and downs in all this, you know, journey, but then ended up going to Oberlin and also you also went to Budapest to study this Academy of Music and then ended up going to Stony Brook for a doctorate degree.

Yeah.

Master's and doctorate. And you got a Stern Scholarship, Turner Fellowship. And then, oh my gosh, Fulbright Award. Wow. You are an amazing achiever. And then, so tell me what stands out from all these accomplishments. Is there any story that you'd like to share or mentorship you had or?

Each of those places were special in their own way, but I would say that I had two truly transformative music experiences. And the first was going to Walden. And studying composition. And then the second was actually going to the Liszt Academy and studying with Ferenc Fráros. It's interesting, I only got to work with him for 2 years. The first year I was there because I worked 2 jobs and saved up money, and so then I had enough money for tuition. And, you know, tuition was a lot less than what it was at an American institution, so I was able to go and then live on a stipend per month. But while I was there, I would— two things happened. I was exposed to music on a level that I had never been exposed to music before. I went to concerts all the time. And when I say all the time, I mean in the beginning, almost like 5 days a week. I went to the opera at least once a week. I heard so much music. And the thing about being a student in Europe is that if you're a music student in Europe, concerts are general— at least they were then— they were generally free. I got to hear amazing musicians. Like, I heard Schiff and I heard Colchis and I heard Martha Argerich and I heard Richter. And, you know, like, the list goes on of, like, just artist after artist. And it didn't actually hit me. And it was, it was pretty exciting and amazing while I was there, but it didn't hit me until I was living in New York. And if I wanted to hear those concerts, the amount of money I would have to put out And I thought— so I was in an environment where the arts are so valued and so treasured that people treated you differently/better for being a musician, for being a music student, for being a musician. I never experienced that here. Never. So I loved being a musician. For the first time, I loved everything about it. You know, I love being a musician, but it was like, you know, against all odds here. But there it was like the most amazing and wonderful thing that you could be. And people appreciated what you contributed to society. But I got to work with a teacher who was— he is a genius. But also he had this ability to— he saw very clearly what was missing and what was needed. And what was missing and what was needed was a lot, actually. You know, I think that when you're talented, sometimes people— and when I say talented, I mean like I had an ability to express easily and freely. And from when I was young. So if something was, you know, like involved pathos, like I could bring up, I could express pathos. And, you know, it was something that would be surprising for the people around me. Like, she's so young. How is she able to do that? Thing. The thing is, when you're able to do one part of a thing really well, people assume that the other stuff is there, and they don't know that it's missing until there's a moment where it is obviously missing. And so he— I'll never forget it. He said, after I'd been working with him for like a month or two, he was like, you know, it's with you, it's like there's this beautiful cake and it's like, it looks amazing. It looks like it's going to be so delicious. The frosting is decorative frosting and it's gorgeous and you're like, oh, I cannot wait. And you cut the cake and it's— there's no cake, it's all frosting.

And I was like, that's tough.

What did you say to me? And I've got to tell you, this is back when you still had to pay for long-distance phone calls, like, and so I would call home every week for like 5-10 minutes and just be like, this is what happened, this is what my lessons were. My mother lived for these. Every week there would be some story about what, you know, my teacher said. He was right. He was like, you don't know how to practice. You don't know how to work. You don't know how to, you know what I mean? And it wasn't to make me feel bad. It was, "This is what you have to do." And what was really extraordinary was that he did something that I have never seen anybody do. He went looking for me in the academy and found me, and he brought chocolate. He said, "Here, this is brain food." And he sat with me while I practiced, and I have never felt so tortured in my life. And I'd start to work, and he'd say, "What are you trying to do?" 'What are you trying to do and how is what you're doing right now going to do what it is you think you're trying to do?' And he just kept asking, 'What's that supposed to do? How's that gonna help? What is that for?' And then I realized, 'Oh, I just flail on the piano until it gets better.' So in, in the 2 hours that he— and he sat with me for 2 hours, do you know what I mean? Like, nobody really— do people do that? You know, like, taught me so much. And, and I'm not saying that other teachers failed me because they didn't. They were giving me different things. And I will tell you right now that I was not an easy person to teach on a lot of levels, but he kind of laid bare like all of the sort of the ways in which I was hiding from— this is what's needed, let's get to work. And so then I did work on a level that I hadn't ever done before. And you know, that kind of sort of breaks you down and you don't feel again, you don't feel certain and you don't feel solid and you don't feel secure. And I remember when I came home and I was practicing, I was auditioning, I was getting ready for, you know, graduate school auditions. My mother was like, you are a different pianist now. And I was like, yeah, it's terrible. And she was like, yeah, no, it's not. Because what had happened was, for the first time, I was hearing like all of the the bad habits and the hitches and the, you know, all the things that I would do to cover up things that I didn't want to do or things that I wasn't quite certain about. And so suddenly I was hearing all of it and I was determined that I didn't want to be hiding. I wanted to— if this is a problem, let's try and tackle it. If this is a problem, let's try and tackle it. So that's why I call it one of the most transformative experiences of my life, because I actually In that moment, I absolutely fell out of love with the idea of myself as a talented person, and I was just— yeah, there's just a lot of work to do.

I want to talk about this album, which is very special to you and means so much to you, because the album is called Luminous, and I got to listen to it, and I really enjoyed Coleridge Taylor-Parkinson. I, you know, honestly, I did not know this composer before, and then his first name is taken from Samuel Coleridge-Taylor, correct? And then you also played his pieces, Samuel Coleridge-Taylor, and then Ulysses Kay and 8 Inventions for Piano. And then also you played your composition, Benediction, right? Correct? And then somehow you ended with Brahms, Chopin, you know, Bach, and I want to know why. And but before that, but I just wanted to congratulate you on the album Luminous, which is dedicated to your late mother.

You know, when my mother passed away, it was all very— it was a lot. And I was really struggling with everything. And I wasn't able to— I had wanted to sort of do a memorial concert or something. And I just, I couldn't, I didn't, I didn't have it. And it was— it took a long time for me to get my equilibrium back. And so it's a project that I have, something that I've wanted to do for a long time. And when she passed away, a lot of things started to happen for me, actually. And so I would often think my mother would be really delighted by this music. My mother would love it. She really enjoyed listening to me practice. She really enjoyed, she loved listening to master classes, you know. I went to a music festival in Switzerland And she said, well, I'm going with my daughter because she's never traveled out of the country internationally on her own. And I don't want her to be on her own for the first time that she travels. And everybody was like, you just want to go to Switzerland and listen to music. She was like, yes. And so she came with me and she was so transfixed by the masterclass that she was only supposed to stay for 3 or 4 days. She stayed for about 10. She stayed for about half of the masterclass. Wow. Because, you know, they were fascinating and she was fascinated by it. There were some pieces that I was like, you know, she would love this. She would love— she would have loved the Kay inventions. And she had heard the first 4, but, you know, I think that she would have— I think she would have really enjoyed the other 4 that make the 8 inventions. And she never heard me play Samuel Coleridge. Taylor. She never heard me play Coleridge-Taylor-Parkinson, but these are pieces that sat in the wheelhouse of what she loved to hear me play. When I was growing up, I, you know, some people have a pedagogy that they follow, like a method book or this or that. I had a teacher actually, um, when I was younger who believed fully in the Bartók Mikrokosmos as a pedagogical tool. So I, every year I was doing, you know, 3, 4 Bartók Mikrokosmos. And yes, there was also in DC a Bartók piano competition, but if there hadn't been, I still would've been doing the Bartók Mikrokosmos. And so, you know how our parents are used to hearing classical music, like they think Mozart and Chopin and Beethoven, and she was very used to hearing music that definitely did not sound like Mozart. And so she developed an ear for it, and she really liked it. And I think that Ulysses K. has a little bit of that going on. And so there was that kind of music that she gravitated towards, but also, you know, she loved a spiritual. We didn't— I wasn't raised in that kind of traditional African American church. You know, I was— my mother was Anglican, and I grew up Presbyterian. And so it's not like we heard spirituals a lot, But my mother was a big fan for a, you know, a low voice singing Deep River, you know what I mean? Like, there are things that she really enjoyed. So there was just this music that was accumulating in my repertoire that I knew that she would really love.

And then, so why did you end this entire album with Bach's famous Chaconne in D minor, Scribed by Brahms?

Because it sat in a very specific place in my music development, my musical development, not just my musical development, but my personal development. I played sports always, right? Middle school, high school. I love sports. And I remember announcing when I was 11 that I wanted to be a concert pianist and I also wanted to be the first woman to play in the NFL. I felt— Oh my goodness. Right. I felt like those were two absolutely compatible dreams to have, right? Okay, and I think I was in middle school playing basketball and I kept injuring my hands. I jammed my thumb, jammed my third finger, whatever. And my teacher at the time, Enrique Graff, got really frustrated. And but he, you know, he assigned me the Scriabin Opus 11 Prelude and Nocturne for the left hand. But I think they were given to me separately because there were two different times that I hurt my hand. Okay. And then this, the third time I did it, he was like, "I have something for you," and it was kind of like, like he was just so over it, and he knew that this was beyond what I could actually do at the time, but he was just like, "I'm done with you. This should keep you busy." Well, I fell in love with this piece. In love with it. To me, it was— it captured the awe and majesty of the universe. It was everything, and I listened to the Milstein recording, and you know, you know how significant it is for your favorite— one of your favorite piano pieces to be a transcription of a violin piece. Pianists don't play transcriptions of other, you know, people's music. Like, why? We have the greatest repertoire. We have it, right? So I am working on this, and I learn it at 12, and I've learned but I can't play it all. Like, I can play like the first half and then I'm exhausted. And I can play the second half and I'm exhausted, but I never was able to play it all together. And then I played it again as an undergrad, I think late as an undergrad. And I remember taking it to Budapest. But that working on it, then I realized, you know, if I really want to play the piano, maybe I need to leave basketball alone. Maybe no more volleyball and maybe no, you know, so it kind of helped me sort of crystallize my focus. And then I started being able to actually play it. Each time I came back to it, I learned something more about myself. I learned something technically. I learned something like, huh, you know, like I made fingering choices at 12 because I could not wrap my hands around it at 12, right?. But then I didn't realize, oh, I'm playing these weird fingerings and I'm assuming that it's okay, but actually my hand is larger now. I can do this or I could do— so that each time like fingerings changed and my perception of things changed. And, and so the last time I seriously pulled it out, I was teaching at Interlochen and there was a young kid there who had recently graduated from Interlochen Academy. He was the jazz intern in the practice room, you know, he was like, let's play some blues together. And so we would play and he was really tough on me. He was like, come on, follow the harmony, follow the harmony, you know? And in that summer I spent so much time doing that kind of work with him that I came out of this thinking about the chaconne on a harmonic level in a way that I just hadn't before. After studying jazz piano for a while, you start to listen differently. Right? Right. And I remember in that moment thinking, I wish my mom could hear this. From all the time that she's heard me play this, it's different now. Basically, the album is a collection of pieces that I know that she loved or I know that she would have loved, but also wrapped in a bow of this piece has been the nexus point of all of these incredible changes in my life and changes in me as a musician. And it just felt entirely appropriate, you know, because I remember when I was 12 and I was struggling through this, she was laughing. I guess you're working now, aren't you?

Wow. She sounds like an incredible person, incredible mother.

Absolutely was. At one point, she, you know, she was getting frustrated with the fact that I wasn't practicing, you know, things were coming easily to me, but it was starting to show. So I wasn't winning competitions anymore. And I wasn't making it to the next round anymore, but I would be upset that I wasn't. And so at one point, after a really, just a really bad showing at a competition, and she said, "You know what? I'm done. I'll pay for your lessons. I'll write whatever checks, and I'll take you where you need to go until you're able to drive. But I'm not getting emotionally involved in this anymore because you seem to think that you're entitled to have success without actually doing any work. And I don't know where you got that from because I didn't raise you that way, but I'm not gonna watch you and I'm not gonna tolerate you being a jerk after you lose. And I felt so incredibly abandoned, but it was also the moment when I decided I want this and then I wanted to fight for it. You know, there was not going to be a, you have to practice, you have to do No, I either practiced or I didn't. And the thing is, we didn't have money, you know what I mean? When my parents split up, we went from being a middle-class family to actually just being poor, you know? She found a way to get me into things, get me into private schools, get me into music programs. If there are scholarships, I applied for them. If there were grants, we, you know, whatever it was, she made so many things happen. And I know for a fact that we didn't have resources. You know, it wasn't like we didn't have resources on such a level that, you know how there are some kids who actually really know what their financial situation is? I was one of those kids. And to the point where if I had something that I had to do and she was like, we have to get you clothing for this or whatever, I was like, we don't, we can't afford, we don't have money for that, you know? So we'd figure it out from her closet and mine, like how we were going to make it work. So there was a lot of sacrifice that was just unbelievable and sacrifice that was not ever tinged with, I am doing so much for you, you should be practicing, or I'm doing so much for you, you owe me. This is what it was. It was just a sort of, my teacher said I had a gift and so she supported that and, you know, everything else. I had a grand piano at age 12. Wow.

Yeah.

And that was like, I did a competition. It was in a piano showroom. The judge who ended up being my piano teacher talked to the owner of the showroom and said, she needs this. Can we do something? And then my church, you know, she was paying a certain amount per month. And I was so excited when the piano came. She said, "Now you know what this means. There are no birthday presents or Christmas presents. Like, this is your present." Like, yeah, I got it. So I didn't have like things, like I didn't have a Walkman, I didn't have, you know, I didn't have games. I didn't grow up in a culture of games, and I didn't grow up in a culture of games because we didn't have money for games. But man, I had a piano.

Yeah, but you know, a story like that is so important right now in this, especially classical music industry, because I don't know how to say this, but I think a lot of successful students, successful people are part of this whole package of meritocracy, right? So, but to hear a real life story real struggle, but then being able to— not even beating the odds because you really did the work. So, but then your, you know, story, and eventually once you grow even older, your legacy as an artist will be so much more to offer, richer, you know, and and the struggle that you went through. And I'm sorry that you have to, you know, for example, lose your mother in such a young age. I mean, you know, that was like 8 years ago, so, right? And it was still young. And then because of who you are, I really wanted your mother to, you know, live through and then, you know, witness what you've accomplished even longer. But that wasn't the case. But then So your story, your story through your piano playing, plus the, of course, the Juneteenth LP will be more meaningful down the road. Yeah. So, but thanks for sharing all these amazing stories. And then, um, so for listeners, if you're, uh, curious about her newest, latest album, Luminous, it is available on all major music streaming services?

All major music streaming services. I'm sorry, I'm still sort of thinking about—

No, go ahead. Yeah, yeah, take it.

No, I just, you know, it's like I can still remember what it was like to be sort of despairing that I didn't have a way to honor my mom, you know. And so now that this project is complete, it feels good and it feels right and it feels appropriate. And I love the fact that there's a way in which she is always present for me, but there's a way in which she could literally be present for me because there was a— it was a real joyful sort of experience and arduous too, you know, but definitely worthwhile. I think that we're very lucky to have the people we have in our lives for however long we have them. It's an interesting thing. I was actually talking to a friend of mine about who just lost her father, and she was saying, you know, I feel sometimes that I'm like, I feel such incredible grief. And she's like, but I still have my mom, I shouldn't. And I said, oh no, I think the loss of a parent is profound, even if you don't have a good relationship with your parent, because the fact of the matter is, if your parents were present, then it's an absence. And so it's a hole that you feel, right? And, um, And, you know, my dad passed away before my mom. He was out of my life by the time I was 8, basically. I think I saw him once after that, you know, decades later. But so when he passed away, it wasn't like a loss loss, but I did experience it like, huh, this person who was a part of my story is gone. And so then when my mother passed away, that's what I was telling people. I was like, It's shocking. I feel like an orphan. You know, we think of orphans as being like, you know, babies and 6-year-olds and 9-year-olds. I said, how am I a grown adult and I feel so adrift, cast adrift? And I realized, oh right, our parents are our anchor to the world. They are what brought us into the world and therefore they are our first known foundations, like And when that's gone, you do experience a moment of, well, who am I if they're not here? But then that's also the gift of being a musician because you have this way to find yourself again too through your work.

Yeah, absolutely. I can relate to that. Yeah. In my own personal way. Thank you. So I wanted to talk really more about you being an educator, but we are running out of time. But I just want to mention quickly, so you've recently, or you're about to become, the artist in residence at Bunker Hill Community College and part of a cohort of 7 women artists of color in celebration of the 50th anniversary of Bunker Hill Community College. So Briefly, can you tell us a little bit about that?

I developed this relationship with Bunker Hill actually during the pandemic, and it was, it was interesting because, um, you know, like I said, I had a friend who was a professor there, and she said, you should reach out to our college planning folks. They do really interesting programming and event planning, and, you know, maybe they'd be interested in what you and Juneteenth LP do. And so the first time I think was in 2020 when everything was virtual. And so it was 3 of us. It was a singer and a cellist and the pianist, us. And we presented this program and afterwards we talked to people virtually. We had a sort of town hall kind of audience engagement talkback thing, and people really, really loved it. And it was interesting because, you know, I'm sure you remember this, in that time when you had performances, people were appreciative on a level that I don't think I've ever experienced prior to that because people needed it and they knew that they needed it. And I think that we had a moment in 2020 where we realized how important artists were to us. And so in some ways it was horrible, but in other ways it was a gift, right? Like, we lost a lot of people in that year and after, But also societally, we realized something, and that was that the arts sustain us and they sustain us sort of spiritually. You know, it's not food and it's not shelter and it's not clothing, but it's pretty darn important. And we need it in our lives to sort of feel whole. And so after that, we came back and we did a couple of master classes. And choral workshop and a couple more concerts. We did a Juneteenth concert, and this year they reached out and they asked if I would be a part of this cohort, and I was really kind of astonished and honored. And, and, but what I'm excited about mostly is that I'll be writing a piece of music based off of text from students in the English department, creative department, writing department. I'm going to collaborate with professors there and come up with a text that's going to set, and I'm going to set to music, so that this project is actually going to be a piece of a choral piece that will be performed at their commencement at the end of the year. So I'm really excited to do that. There are also going to be concerts and virtual events. Massachusetts, Boston is still very much virtual. In a way that New York is not. They are not having live shows like the way we are. And so everything that I've done with Bunker Hill has mostly been virtual— has been— no, has been entirely virtual, actually.

Okay, so you're not relocating from where you are, New York City?

No, no, I will be here, and I will probably go to Boston a couple of times, and then for the performance at the end of the year But I'm really looking forward to it because I really like that. I like that school. I like that institution a lot. I like the population that they serve, and I like how committed they are to that population that they serve. And so it feels very much like an honor to be a part of that.

The students are very, very lucky to have you as a mentor and teacher. I would like for us to discuss discuss about the vision of the classical music industry. So let's start with this. So I'm going to just go back to where we were about the year 2020. So since then, you know, classical musicians have more— has been more actively or intentionally programming our concerts with repertoires by, you know, underrepresented composers and so forth. Now, Is that enough? I mean, if not, what else can we do to make a difference to be more inclusive in our industry?

I think it's not enough, but we're definitely on the right path, right? Because here's the thing. Someone made a very interesting point to me after helping me secure a grant. He said, you really need to maximize your time, maximize this moment. Right, that, and use this grant to help you get other grants. And he said, because right now we're in a post-George Floyd moment, but he was like, the next issue is around the corner. And he was like, if there's one thing I've learned is people direct their attention to the next issue, you know. And sure enough, what happened next was the war in Ukraine and all of a sudden you had foundations and organizations and whatever interested in, you know, fundraising for the Ukraine, you know, this, that, and the other, as they should, you know. But I, I remember when he said that thinking, oh, that's terribly cynical. And yet that's exactly what happens, right? And after Ukraine, there's going to be another thing that people are going to say, this is the thing that we want to pour our money into, and this is the thing that we want And so it's hard to know that that's how the business often works, you know, or the industry works, and to still hold fast to your focus, right? But I think that one of the most important things that we can do is as educators. So one of the things that happened in 2020 was, and 2021 specifically, was I said to my students, I'm going to pick your repertoire for the year. And I usually get their input. You know, what do you want to do? And we'll find something that works. But this time, what I said was, if you want— if you are Dominican and you want to play Dominican composers, we will find that. If you are Chinese and you want to play Chinese, we will find that. Tell me what you're interested in. Do you want to play women composers? We will do all— whatever it is. And what was interesting was I didn't think I'd get that many students who were that into it, but they all were. They all were, which meant that I spent the year not just learning about Dominican composers, but like trying to find scores for Dominican composers that were appropriate for like my, you know, late beginner, early intermediate students. And what I saw was that we were having these kinds of conversations in Facebook in our various communities. Does anybody know Korean American composers that have written pedagogical pieces that would be appropriate for this level? Or— and I remember thinking, wow, this is a result of like the post-George Floyd era where we're like, we can change this and this is how we're going to do it. And so my doing that with my students introduced me to a whole other set of like repertoire even beyond like African American composers, but, you know, very specifically like Caribbean composers, also Asian composers and Latin composers. And there are so many amazing pieces of music out there that were not written by Bach and Beethoven.

Wow.

And we can make everyone's— our students' piano experience be personal, something that they're invested in, something that their families are invested in, that they're excited about. And we should do that because when you do that in music, they think to themselves, why not in literature? Why not in theater? Why not in whatever it is that they're interested in? And so I think that if we start doing that individually as teachers and in our teachers associations, you know, Piano Teachers Congress, MTNA, whatever it is, we start saying our requirements, you know, you're required to do something non-traditional, non-canonic, that we make that part of our audition requirements and we make it part of our competition requirements. And, you know, because right now, what are— before, what people were doing was you'd have like a 21st century composition requirement or a 20th century composition. Well, why can't we have, you know, the list of repertoire include, you know, Samuel Fuller Taylor, Margaret Bonds, Florence Price, that we choose what we want to hear, you know, and the minute it becomes a competition requirement, everybody then, all the teachers then start to learn it and start to teach it, right? And in that way, I think that we can make this music spread, but I also think that as performers, it is up to us to always be doing Follow your nose. Like, be— whatever you're excited about, do it. Because when you play something and you play something well, someone in your audience goes, "That was amazing. I want to play that piece." And then suddenly that person is now, "I'm gonna find this piece and I'm gonna play it." And then they played, and then someone else hears it, goes, "What is that? I want to play that." I really try and tell students, especially as they enter into conservatory and Don't sound like everybody else. Don't do what everybody else is doing. You know, you will always have requirements, but the minute you have an option to do something different, be different. There are so many options. In that way, we can really affect meaningful change by setting requirements that are inclusive.

Yeah. What is your thought on our duty, or even as a gift as classical musicians to society at large?

You know, it always sounds so lofty when you say it, but then, like I said, in 2020 I realized it's not lofty, it's actually true. Our job as artists, as musicians, regardless of genre, we exist to remind us humans of our humanity, effectively. That, like, art does so many things. It can lay bare the human condition, it can It can be a form of comfort in a time, in a dark time. It can, it, there's, it can be so many things, but whatever it is, it is almost always essential. If at the end of the day people in caves were doing art, right, that, that speaks to how much a part of our human identity it is, like how much we need it. We need literature, we need music, and we need, we need to be able to see paintings and sculptures and experience installations and multimedia presentations. It affirms our humanity. Like, I remember going to— I'm forgetting the name of the exhibit, but it was at the Brooklyn Museum And I remember seeing these paintings and just being sucked in by the color and sucked in by the, by the vision of the artists, you know. And it gave us, it gave me a different way of looking at the world, right? And, and so when I left the museum and I went out, I looked at trees differently because of the way I had seen them represented in paintings, right? And they were abstract, but still I was looking at the natural world around me differently and in a way that allowed me to see trees and sky and like with fresh eyes, right? So art has this way of renewing us and renewing our sense of perception and our sense of self and sometimes our identity. In a way that is essential, I think, for us spiritually. And I know that sounds touchy-feely, but I, I really do believe it's, it's true. And so as musicians, we have to remember that when we play, that's actually what we're offering. And so a lot of times we'll go into a performance and we want it to be perfect and we want it to be right, or we want it to be whatever it is we want it to be. But actually, the audience isn't experiencing it as perfect or right or the definitive interpretation of whatever. The audience is experiencing it as something that comes in and opens up their heart to the world. And so it doesn't matter if it's perfect, like, not to the listener. And that's a gift. And we should honor the work that we do because It's something absolutely extraordinary that we have to offer, and we should respect what we have to offer. And I do think that's a kind of solemn duty.

What's the next phase and goal for you and Juneteenth LP?

So right now we're getting ready for the next season. But I would say that sort of organizationally, we are starting to make the shift from an ensemble that does projects and gets funded to do projects, and we want to become an organization that gets funded as an institution, which means that we have to become a 501, you know, and that's a whole bunch of stuff, like, but I know what I want for us. I want, I want this to be an organization that lasts beyond me, and I want it to be part of what helps us. You know, the next thing that we want to do is we want to create a commissioning project where we actually help grow the library of music, classical music by African American composers. And, you know, we're able to award prizes and to have events that are like, you know, this is a piece that we've chosen, we're going to record record it, we're going to, you know, present it in concert. So, you know, that takes resources, you know, and that takes, that takes a board of directors, you know. So that's the next step. And I'm, I'm unashamed to say I know nothing about these things, but I'll learn.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great. Thank you so much. It's been a really wonderful conversation.

Then, uh, you have amazing questions. You really got me thinking about a lot of different things. It was wonderful.

Oh, thank you. So for everyone, be sure to check out Nana's latest album, uh, which was produced in May 2023. It's Luminous. Wow. Yes. Thank you so much for showing the CD cover on your music streaming service. And, uh, you can learn more about Nana by visiting her website at nana.net and about Juneteenth LP at juneteenthlp.com. Org. All right, so this has been once again fun and inspirational conversation, Nana. And but before I let you go, we have one more thing to do.

It's the rapid fire questions. Yes, yes.

So this is the part of the show where I get to ask fun questions to each guest. Now here's a little twist. As silly as these questions may sound, your answers may reveal who you truly are. So ready or not, please answer them with the shortest responses as possible. No explanation is necessary. So, okay, let's start with easy ones. Level 1. What's your comfort food?

Soup.

How do you like your coffee?

Oh, like hot chocolate, sweet, lots of milk.

Great. Cats or dogs?

Cats.

Sunrise or sunset?

Oh, can't pick.

Okay, that's fine. Summer or winter?

Winter if I have a fireplace.

Great. Paper book or ebook?

Oh, paper book.

Now, Level 2. What is your word or words to live by?

Keep persisting. Persistent, like just keep trying.

What is the most important quality you look for in other people?

Kindness.

Name 3 people who inspire you, living or dead.

My brother, obviously my mother. There are so many. I know. Sviatoslav Richter.

Name one piece in your current playlist.

I'm, uh, Many Thousand Gone. It's by, um, Samuel Coleridge-Taylor. I'm working through the entire set of 24 Negro Melodies, but that is the one that I'm— that's on the front burner.

Okay, great. I'll listen to it. Now the last question, which is the most difficult. Well, no, maybe not. So fill in the blank: music is blank.

Life.

Ding ding! Thank you so much. You won. Wonderful. That was fun.

So that was so much fun.

Oh, thank you. So this concludes this episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Nana Agyemang. Thank you, Nana, for joining my show today and sharing your stories and insights and expertise. You can learn more about Nana and her amazing work through her website at nana.net, and you can listen to her album Luminous on all major music streaming services. All the links are listed in the show notes. Thank you to my wonderful audience and fans for tuning in today. If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review it on whatever podcasting platform you use. Remember to hit the thumbs up button and subscribe to my YouTube channel and follow The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song on social media to get the latest piano news via Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. I will see you for the next episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song. Bye everyone, and thank you, Nana.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.