Season 4 Episode 9: Dr. Michael Coonrod -- Classical Pianist, Recording Artist, Educator, & Arranger

Happy New Year 2024 and welcome back to another episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song. Here tradition meets innovation The Piano Pod with the dynamic pulse of today's world. I am your host Yukimi Song. I hope you all had wonderful holidays surrounded by your loved ones. After a brief break, I'm so happy to be back podcasting in the new year and interviewing incredible talents of the classical music industry. As an inaugural episode of 2024, I am excited to tell you that I invited Dr. Michael Kuhnrott, performing classical pianist, recording artist, educator, and arranger of music for the left hand alone, who has recently retired from the Interlochen Center for the Arts after a remarkable 46-year tenure as a piano faculty member. Usually I would continue the episode by reading the guest's bio right now, but today I wanted to do something different. Before our usual introduction and welcome, I decided to invite and chat with a special guest who is a dear friend and colleague of mine whom I've known for many years through working for this nonprofit organization in New York City as a board member and through many fun projects I get to collaborate with. He has also become a contributor and faithful listener of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song in recent months. So please allow me to introduce my friend, classical pianist, educator, web designer and my personal tech advisor, Mr. Boqi Wang. Yay, thank you.

Great to be here.

So today's guest, Dr. Conrad, you introduced me to this amazing pianist and teacher. I know that you met him through the Interlochen Academy, Arts Academy. So tell us, what was it like learning from him? So let's start with how you met.

When I was 15 years old, I moved from Taiwan to Michigan, and I remember our first day there. All the pianists, all the new students, it's like a jury, right? You play for all the piano faculties unless you indicate who you want to study with. By the time, I didn't know anybody, so I followed the normal procedure. We play, I think, a piece or two and some scales, basic stuff. And then I was told I was going to study with Dr. Conrad. So that's how we met.

Wow. So what was the reason you chose the Interlochen Arts Academy? I understand it's one of the prestigious music schools in the United States.

So at the time, I was— we were looking at high schools that specifically for performing arts, and there were 3 of them. There are 3 different schools, one in California, one in Michigan, one in Boston. Um, and in fact, I was actually going to Paris originally, not the United States. So at the time I was learning French back home and my mom felt maybe we need to have a backup plan. So she flew here, visit schools, and then she thought Interlochen was the right choice.

Wow. But it's, it's surprising to me because after so many years, I didn't know that you were planning to go to Paris and studying French. Oh my goodness.

I had, no, I had everything ready at the time. I have all the visa ready. I, everything was set, but because I was, I just turned 15 at the time and the life in Paris is really different. It's really different. You have to be on your own. So at the time, uh, my family thought maybe that's not a good idea. So that's what we were looking at as a backup plan.

I can't imagine you speaking in French.

So it would, it took me a year. It's difficult.

I bet. But coming as a high school student from Taiwan, and I'm sure you've encountered so many, you know, cultural language differences, obviously. Later on, you came to New York and studied at Manhattan School of Music. You went through college and master's degree. But before then, starting from the Interlochen, what was it like?

I met Konrad after I learned, okay, I'm going to study with him. I remember first week or even the second week of school, after my lesson, he said if I ever feel lonely, if I want to feel like being at a home setting, he want me to call him because he said they have extra bedrooms. I'm more than welcome to stay with them. And that was only the second week I just met him. He doesn't know me, I don't know him. And that makes me feel like, wow, you would do that for me, right? We, we left our family to come here to study. And he wants to make us feel welcomed or even feel, you know, not too homesick.

Right. And also safe. Right. You know, I myself was an international student. And then, you know, more than anything, because you feel so insecure, because you had to learn the language, that's one thing that really takes a lot of toll on you. You know, not knowing the language. I don't know how much you were speaking English at the time.

I was going to mention that. So I had very poor English back then. I had no idea what was going on. I remember my first day of class was 9— September 11th. 9/11 happened. Uh, I was walking to lunch and going through lunch, we go through a hotel lobby. We have a hotel in our campus just for guests to stay in. And that's where, where the cafeteria was behind a hotel. Uh, and I was walking through the lobby and then TV was showing what happened during 9/11. And my English was so bad at the time, I thought it was a movie. I didn't know what was happening, what was happening at the time. So of course the school canceled the day. I can't remember detail, but it was a chaos, as you can imagine.

So it was your first, really first day of school as a boarding international, right?

Right. So once you have someone talk to you this way, saying that, hey, if you want call me, you know, we'll pick you up, you can stay with us over the weekend. You know, that's really something.

So tell me, Poki, what it was like to be part of Dr. Kunrat's piano studio at Interlochen.

You want to be better, right? That's why we practice every day. And it can be stressful. Maybe we will have competitions coming up or any reasons, right? Because Interlochen, just like conservatory, right? They were very, very strict or competitive. But with Kumrad, we are always— yes, of course we work hard, but he want to make sure that we, we have a balance. Where Interlochen is, we're basically in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by nature, right?

Oh, nice.

So he will take us out. I remember there were times we will run around the building. I mean, we were 15, 16 years old. He will take us running around the building, and you can see everybody was like working so hard in the studio class, and we're the only one running around. Just 2 laps, really, just 2 laps. We run around the building 2 laps, we'll come back in the building, he will have everybody lay under the piano when other people are playing, or sometimes, you know, he will make tea for us in the studio class. Our studio class, he want to make sure that we are all relaxed, not too stressed. And it's all about the balance, right? We can just be in the practice room for, for a long time, but during the studio class, it was really important. We, we did a lot of, a lot of things that normal studio classes people, we, teacher wouldn't do, you know. And, and we'll goof around. We were kids at the time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know.

And, and, and that was, that was great. He takes time to talk to you. He cares about you. Being an artist or being a pianist, it's not— yes, you practice hard, you do all the right things, but you gotta love what you do. And I think at the time, Dr. Kumrat, he always tells us, you know, we know he's really, really busy. He still performs. He made a lot of recordings. And how do you find the time? Right? And he— because he, he just loved what he does, and, and, you know, it's— it doesn't seem like a work to him. And, and, and so, so music, again, it can be very competitive, or it can be something that it's all— it's about you, what you love, right? Not trying to— I want to be better than you, right? You know? Yeah. Uh, that's what I think. That's what One of the, the thing I learned.

Do you have any fun stories besides all the things that you mentioned with Dr. Kumarat, learning from him, or maybe spending some time with him, like a memorable moments?

All the serious things aside, right? Because I think that everybody there will practice, we do academics, we do all that. But you know, the, the things I remember the most. It's those things that other people don't do. Again, it was during studio classes because there was a group of us. He took us on the little hike behind the school. We found those roots and he— we came back in the studio, he made us tea or something just from the roots during our studio classes. And I think at the time it was during the violence week. I don't remember exactly the timing at the time, but I know the whole thing that he He did that for us because he wanted us to do something else, not just practicing. I don't know if we're allowed to use fire at the time at The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song, but we made tea in the studio class. You know, those moments stay with you, right? Because those are abnormal moments and you appreciate that. Don't take it too seriously. I guess that's why it is.

How did Mr. Kunrat influence you and change your life?

He recently retired and his retired concert was livestreamed on the website. I was able to watch it and he played his transcription of the Danny Boy for left hand only. And at the time I was like, oh man, this is so beautiful. I know he just recorded a CD and because I'm not there, at the end of the concert he goes, when you leave, pick up a copy of the CD that he's not he wanted to give it away. I, at the time, was like, man, I really want it because, you know, such a good recording. So I wrote to Konrad. I said, I watched this. I would love to have a copy of your transcription because it's such a beautiful transcription. So he sent it to me. That's right before I went to Vermont. So, you know, Vermont, we spent a week there. Basically, it's a piano retreat, but whatever. So I learned it.

That was last summer, right?

That was last summer. So I, uh, we have a half-year reunion concert coming up in January, and I'm planning to play that.

What reunion?

So the Vermont, uh, our Vermont, this program, okay, retreat. We always do a half, you know, half-year reunion concert in January, and I'm planning to play Kunrat's arrangement of Danny Boy.

Great.

The concert. And, you know, he's really excited about it. And as he was telling me that it's really nice to hear someone else playing his arrangement. And I'm very honored that I can do it.

Poki, thank you for being here today as the guest of the introductory segment of this episode and telling us the memories and personal stories you shared with your mentor, which adds so much anticipation and excitement to the interview with Dr. Kunrat.

Looking forward to it.

So before finally inviting Dr. Kunrat, let me briefly cite his bio. Dr. Michael Kunrat's illustrious career as a classical pianist, recording artist, and educator spans continents, captivating audiences worldwide. His musical footprint resonates globally, from enthralling performances with orchestras playing Beethoven's Concerto No. 4 to sharing the stage with the Kindau Conservatory of Music in China. He has graced esteemed gatherings like the American Liszt Society, the International Viola Congress, and more. Among his several recordings is the album highlighting Michigan composer Albert Fillmore's work, which was a passion project supporting aspiring composers through scholarships. Dr. Koonrod boasts over 50 years of enriching students' lives through teaching piano. At the Interlochen Arts Academy, one of the nation's prestigious music institutions, he passionately nurtured countless talents for 46 years until his retirement in 2022. Beyond music, Dr. Kuhnrott finds joy in crafting a model railroad, performing chamber music, and lending his talents to accompany a church choir. His life orchestrates passion, expertise, and a symphony of diverse interests. So before getting started with this special episode, I want to welcome all our first-timers to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song. I'm a classical pianist and educator from New York City. Whether diving deep into a piano career, working professionally in the classical music scene, or simply having a passion for piano tunes, this podcast is your backstage pass to the fascinating piano world. I also want to welcome back and thank you to amazing TPP fans and faithful listeners for tuning in today. Please rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platform because every rating review will help people find the show. So dear TPP fans and listeners, I can't wait to interview Dr. Michael Kumrat to hear about this remarkable career as a concert pianist, recording artist, and educator. So stick with me till the end of our conversation as it will lead to a more reflective discussion on how we trained classical musicians should keep classical music relevant and thriving in today's rapidly changing world. So here we go, dear friends. Please enjoy the show.

You are listening to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song.

You are listening to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song, where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry about how they are bringing the Piano into the 21st century. We are here with Dr. Michael Kuhnradt, performing classical pianist, recording artist, educator, arranger of music for the left hand alone. So welcome, Dr. Kuhnradt, to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song. Thank you for being here today.

I'm honored that you would ask me. Thank you. I'm looking forward to it.

Same here. Now, Paul Kihwang, fellow pianist and educator, uh, and my colleague at nonprofit organization The Piano Teachers Congress of New York, connected me to you. I understand you were Poki's teacher while he was studying at the Interlochen Arts Academy, and you are a mentor to him, and he says you changed his life and made him who he is today as an artist and educator.

So nice to hear, because so often students might not contact you for years, sometimes decades, sometimes maybe weeks. But to know that I was an influence on his life After so many years, well, maybe what, 12, 15 years when I was teaching him for 3 years, it's really gratifying to know. It's just, for me, it's the best job I could ever have.

Oh, that's wonderful. I know you've taught at the very prestigious Interlochen Center for the Arts, which is located in Michigan, state of Michigan, for 46 years, I believe.

46 years I've taught at the Arts Academy, yes.

Oh my goodness. And then recently retired from being a full-time faculty member there. And of course, Interlochen is one of the prestigious music schools in the, in the nation and internationally renowned as well, where young students' creativity has flourished since its founding in 1928, I believe. And plus, yes, and then the school boasts a distinguished alumni network of musicians as well as dancers and actors. In the last 3 and a half years of podcasting, I have interviewed several Interlochen graduates actually for The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song. So I want to know what drew you to the institution and what makes it stand out in the realm of arts education. So can you share how you first became involved with the Interlochen Center for the Arts?

Well, I did grow up in Missoula, Montana. I had been playing piano since age 4, and this was the early teen years, which is the time most people have this burning craving to play music. That's just fascinating to me, like, what causes that at those early teen years? My father, who was Dean of Liberal Arts and Sciences at the University of Montana, had a dear friend who was Dean at Illinois State University And this dean recommended Interlochen, that I would study with George Luchtenberg. This is 1967, a few years ago. So I saw a picture of Interlochen National Music Camp at that time, it was called. Now it's Interlochen Arts Camp because it has all the arts media, not just music. And so it was recommended I go there. So I spent 1967 summer studying with him. I remember I took theory, composition. I was in the festival choir, which any adults or students could sing in. We did the Verdi Requiem. Oh wow, it was wonderful. And then I practiced 6 or 7 hours, and that's what I went to do. And I went and heard concerts. And the unique thing is that it's a camp and it's right there. You just have to walk as far as half a football field to go to concerts, and they're all outdoors. And it's also a social experience. And also they ask you to have sports activities. At that time they called it forced fun, which wasn't a very good name because it's something I really enjoyed doing. I took tennis lessons. So that's involved. And I never knew that that would be my only job in life. If I had known that, I would have thought more of it other than just smelling a little iron in the water. I would have thought, oh, if I had a premonition, this is going to be my job teaching. Of course, at that time I didn't think I was going to be a teacher. I was just trying to play the piano as best as I could. Well, I was a grad student at Peabody Conservatory in Baltimore, and the director of placement, Sidney Forrest, famous clarinetist who was teaching there, contacted me and 4 other students knowing that we were looking for jobs. Uh, and I guess I was unknowingly smart because this was in August and academy began in September. So I sent everything, not just a cover letter, cover letter, transcripts, recordings, grades, courses, everything. And that turned out to be good because administration had their hands full, they were on vacation, and so they had me come in and play a concert in 3 days' notice. I played the Elliot Carter piano sonata, a couple etudes, and some Schubert. And it's good that I did some etudes like Moszkowski and Chopin, because Interlochen really promotes the study of technique. So that's how I became a person, a faculty member, a piano faculty member. And years after that, one of the piano faculty members said— because I asked them, how did you hire me? Why did you hire me? Because I never taught anybody. It was between camp and academy. And they said, well, you smiled and you forgot your suitcase, so you must be a good musician.

So introduce us to the Interlochen Center for the Arts, brief overview, maybe programs. And I know Interlochen Summer Camp is very famous too, and my— some of my students are trying to go there. And then, and so also the— maybe the key milestones, if you know to shape its legacy and so forth.

Interlochen is, is quite a substantial part of the music culture in the world. Started in 1928, as you mentioned. I did some research on some statistics because they're a little different every year. Turns out that there's 6 orchestras, there's 2 bands and 3 choirs. There's 3,230 campers representing 40 countries. And 6% are international students. At the academy, there's 567 students as of this year, uh, representing 45 states, 27 countries, and 85 international students.

Oh my goodness.

So they, I mean, it's incredible what they have, but it's divided up into, uh, juniors, students, uh, age 8 to 11. And they're separated between male, female in different parts of campus. Interlaken means between the lakes. So the one side is, is for one gender and the other side for another gender. It's called Pine Side. And then ages 11 to 14, intermediate level, and there's different programs for each of them. Finally, there's high school. When I first started teaching there, we taught every level. Including college. It was the summer camp for the University of Michigan. So it's quite a substantial place. There's 4 different branches to Interlochen. Uh, number 1 is, uh, Interlochen Arts Camp during the summer, which includes an intensive 6 weeks, and that's a separate group of students who are generally more advanced and are there to have master classes all day and go to concerts in the evening. Not so many kind of social camp experiences. Although you can't help it. There's, there's, there's socializing too. It's been very successful, maybe 20 years old now. It's been a piano intensive session for maybe 12 years. And so that's the camp. The academy is the art, you know, like an arts academy, which is high school, 9 through 12. We see students for a longer period of time so we can see more development. The camp, you give them 4 to 8 lessons, uh, but during the year it's just 9 months of lessons and you get to know them because it's much smaller. I mean, 3,200 is different than 500.

Yes.

And then we also have, uh, Mallory Towsley, uh, Center for Arts Leadership. That invites adults to come in for the weekend or 4 or 5 days to talk about arts activities, different arts Aries may be talking about crafts and they could be anything. They have their own building and they have their own director that's separate from the school, from the high school. Let's see, we also have Interlochen Public Media and that provides classical music and a news station throughout the general Northern Michigan area. And let's, did I get 'em all? Yes. 1, 2, 3, 4, which is all under the umbrella of Interlochen Center for the Arts.

It's a big institution and it is one of the most influential art schools in the nation. I understand that. Now, you mentioned that there are substantial numbers of international students. So do you— does the school offer like a boarding school?

It's 90% boarding school, so they can get out of bed and walk across the street and have their lesson. Or their classes. We have 1,200 acres, but during the winter it's only on one side, and it's just very close. During the summer, students have to walk from the other lake over to, to have breakfast, to have the meals on the main campus. I mean, life is harsh, right? They don't have to drive 2 hours for a lesson.

I see now, I understand that. Wow.

There are day students. People can come here from China sometimes, Parents come over here and live, and they can have their children be day students. So it's less expensive. There's an extraordinary amount of scholarship available. So the tuition is quite high, like all boarding schools, but there's an endowment for a lot of scholarship. I can't remember the number, whether it's $5 million or $10, $15 million. It's, uh, they don't give somebody free passes to come here. It's good to be able to do, have something that parents can offer. So people don't need to be dissuaded by steep tuition prices.

Yes, yes, absolutely.

I think the goal for the future is to have free tuition.

Oh, buddy, that would be amazing. Just attract the true, true genuine talents.

Sometimes we, in the past, we've missed having Eastern European students who are really exceptional, but they can't afford anything. While we were bringing them, but then the school couldn't afford that. So we're hoping to reinstate that.

Oh, that sounds really like amazing dream come true for all the young artists.

Wonderful. We have an incredible president we love, Trey Devi, and he gets to know everybody. He knows people's names and he's out there promoting Interlochen and raising money and fantastic president for us.

So what sets us apart from other institutions? What sets Interlochen— maybe you already mentioned all the, you know, the unique way to provide, you know, musical experience to young students, but what else sets them apart?

Well, there are many really fine art schools out there. I just mentioned the things that we offer, which is quite extensive, and we've had a history of decades of successful students. I mean, I asked the school, can you give me some of the famous people who have come through here, either the camp or the academy? And it's just incredible. I mean, 2 or 3 pages. Anthony McGill, he's the principal clarinetist in the New York Philharmonic. Aaron Dworkin, founder of Sphinx. David Shiffrin, the clarinetist, famous clarinetist. Elaine DuBois, who's principal oboe in the Metropolitan Opera. Lauren Maizel, former New York Philharmonic conductor. He was here as a 10-year-old.

Oh my goodness.

And we have 50 presidential scholars. Evidently, there's 13% of the orchestra musicians are graduates of Interlochen. There are 32 Tony Awards, 26 Emmy Awards, 3 Oscars, and 4 Pulitzer Prizes. Wow. But you know what really impresses me is Not so much these famous people who've been so successful, but what about the people who have moderate talent, who it wasn't— weren't that advanced here, but then later on after college and grad school, if they go that route, they're very successful, uh, like Jewel, uh, say Nora Jones. I mean, they've been here, but they're a great name for themselves. And I've had students who are very talented but not really advanced, and You really work with them. It's a little harder to develop them, their technique, things they really need, some rudimentary skills. Extremely talented students are fairly easy to teach unless they have a chip on their shoulders and they don't accept what you have to say, but that doesn't happen very often. But what's rewarding for me is to see a moderately talented student work really hard and have a mission to succeed and to see them excel and be happy and satisfied. And they've fulfill their dreams, whatever it may be, is very gratifying.

Can you share some of the most favorite or memorable or rewarding moments as an educator there you've experienced while teaching?

I'd be happy to. I've been thinking about this. First, I think, is letters and messages from former students throughout several years after they graduate, sometimes decades after they graduate, and develop this really close relationship and you realize what you have done for them. That's very, very important for me, rewarding experiences. Also, there was a year in which we had enough really advanced students to play all the 32 Beethoven sonatas, and the last 3 were played by Richard Goode, who came. Ironically, he happened to be on the schedule, unbeknownst to us. Let's see, my colleague did the Hammerklavier, I did Opus 101, and the students filled in the rest. Not that the others are easier. And we didn't do them on one concert or 7 concerts. When a student was ready to perform one of the sonatas, they were on a student recital. And then I had a big old chart and I just marked it down. So by the end of the year, we had all these 32 sonatas. Not only that, but we had some bagatelles. We had Rage Over the Last Penny, the difficult walkways.

Yes, yes, yes.

And that's quite a milestone to be able to achieve that. And we could probably do that in other years, but we only did it the one year. What meant a lot to me was my retirement honoring. I spent 46 years, and they had me play a piece for the assembly, which is very tearful. It was Danny Boy, actually, a piece that I arranged for the left hand alone. After my injury. I also, I had a piano festival that I organized for 12 years in which I brought teachers from all of Michigan and Ohio and Illinois to listen to guest artists. And we had basically 2 or 3 artists. One was for advanced students. The other is for beginners or elementary, like Amanda Vick Lethgoe, very famous composer of method books. She came, uh, had people talk about accompanying for dance, I mean, it was a very successful festival, but after 12 years, the school— well, actually, I built a lot of money for it, but we couldn't quite pay for everything. So I think the school couldn't do the rest for that, but that was very successful. One thing I was really happy about is that one of my dear students built thousands and thousands of dollars for a guest artist budget. This happened upon my retirement as an honor. This person chose to be anonymous, so I can't say the name, I guess I'd say her name. That was really wonderful. And I told my colleagues, it's nice to know that my retirement helped the school. And I don't think because they're glad to get rid of me, because this wouldn't have happened had I not retired. So I was really grateful for that. And this person was here in the early years, graduated in 1977. And so you never know what impact you make on people because I had never heard from her for decades. Then all of a sudden we're close and we talk and we visit. It's a wonderful, honorable thing that she had done that. Remember when she graduated, she was here only one year. She's from an Asian country and she had a really rough life because Chiang Kai-shek wouldn't let intelligentsia do anything. They were actually interned and killed. And her father actually made through. Made it through. And then, uh, when she heard that I played Danny Boy as an encore for that left-hand concerto, she was in tears because her father, at age 80, after surviving that ordeal, sang Danny Boy. Because every time somebody would leave the internment and never to be seen again, the survivors would sing songs, and one was Danny Boy. Very— what she had gone through and Uh, yeah, the last thing I want to say is very important to me, is that my dear student Carrie Huber replaced me, and I was not on the, uh, the team to, to hire her, but everybody agreed that she's one of the best people to, to invite. And so she, she's here. She has been vocal about carrying on my lineage, and wonderful person. First-rate pianist and wonderful teacher. She's going to have a long lineage here. So I was honored by having a former student fill my position.

So she was your student before?

Yeah, from 2005 and '06. She plays all music really beautifully well, but her passion right now is to promote, uh, women composers, particularly in the 21st century, but also 20th and 19th centuries.

One of these days I would like to reach out to her. Maybe I can interview her on my show.

I hope you do.

Yes. You have such, of course, 40+ years of teaching piano. So we would like to know, we need to pick your brain when it comes to teaching. So we would like to know your philosophy and methods of teaching. What teaching techniques do you find most effective in helping students develop technical skills. So you mentioned about technique, so—

Okay, yeah, I'm thinking, I counted up, I have been teaching for 54 years, 46 here. And so I taught beginners, I taught elementary, I taught class piano. The last 20 years I was teaching majors and advanced students. And so my philosophy is everybody deserves good teaching. Whether it's a beginner or it's extremely advanced. It's not like I teach the talent so much. I teach the person and the talent together. I always say the talent, I mean, the person is just as important as the talent. I'll teach anybody who wants to work hard, has a mission. And a person needs to realize that failures can be very helpful unless you quit. You have to pick yourself up and keep going and you'll be successful. Discouragement is always followed by some kind of encouragement. That happens in my life. If something bothers me or discouraging, I just know that the next day or so, something really helpful is going to happen to me. I don't know what it is, but it's really uncanny how that happens. You could call answers to prayer. You could have it yin and yang. You can talk whatever you want. It's just, it happens. So you asked me about philosophy, about teaching. The most important thing is have a good attitude and positive attitude to help students not be so self-critical because they come to Interlochen and they see more advanced students and they think they're no good. Or they go to competition and they don't win. They think they're no good. They just have to channel their focus into something positive that they have something to say. And I was encouraged trying to play special moments. My old teachers always said, if you can have a few special moments, I mean really transcending moments in a performance, you should feel lucky. It's almost too much to ask every single turn of the phrase to just put chills up your spine. It would be nice. Well, it's a little bit like if you try to play something really special is every single time. It's maybe like, uh, nothing special if everything tries to be special. I mean, you try to play beautifully, of course, but if you— what I'm trying to say is there's certain places that are really special harmonically or motivically or architecturally, and if you try to do those big high points everywhere, then nothing is important. Rachmaninoff was quoted as saying, where's the high point? Where's the point? What are you going towards? So if everything is a high point, then nothing's a high point. Regarding the teaching of— I believe strongly in technique, study of technique, not so separate from music, but exercises. I call it applied technique. Actually, that's my teacher's term, applied technique. So if you're gonna do an exercise, there must be a purpose for it. For example, if you're doing some rotation exercises, then you're— it's gonna— you study this in order to get the technique involved. Hanon, I think, is the best book ever for studying technique. It's not the only one, but I like it very much because it fuses the fingers with the wrist. But so I'm not a believer in playing Hanon like usually you hear kind of mechanical and it might help to strengthen individual fingers but it's not musical. In music we find things in groups— there are groups of 3s, 6s, 4s or 8s and I have students practicing scales yadda little dada little dada little little little dada little little in fours and also yetta little little little little little little little litte. So this kind of rhythmical thing that happens when people play together. Pulsation. I've seen people practice scales like machine guns. And to me, that's not the end result. So, I like to infuse musical insights into the exercises. Let's see. Can you see that? Yeah. If you just do the thing, It's just tight sounding. It's not good. I took students to Ann Arbor to hear Murray Pariah do a recital. And afterwards we went backstage to say we loved his playing. And you know what we saw on the piano was the Hanon book.

No way.

And I thought, if he still does that, why shouldn't we? Really?

Good old Hanon.

Yeah. Yeah.

That's surprising to hear. Sorry. Yes.

I do it hands alone. Because if you're going to be doing— it's an up and over, up and over. So it's groups of 8. Going down, it's down, up, down, up. Oval motions. Oval. Not up and down. You don't want to do this, especially in chords. It's wonderful to do it hands alone because, well, number one, you can focus on one hand instead of both. You gotta be a little sloppy, do things both hands together. So I really believe in Hanon as it applies to musical ideas. Stroke, you know, I really believe in this, the stroking, the downward motion, because the different attacks make different sounds. For example, the Schubert impromptu. You know, every finger has to have some kind of a Pressure, different pressure. Because voicing is everything practically in piano. And so let's see this. The Brahms Ballade. I was really impressed with Michelangeli, one of my favorite pianists. He kind of goes. He kind of drops the whole arm on. And I know a lot of people might not want to do that because you can do it by staying on the key. If you phrase it, it doesn't come out— did you hear that? Mm-hmm. Beautifully, right? With a good tone. A student might practice just going— and of course this is balanced by the other part of the hand going— it makes it more like a singer with an accompaniment. I mean, there's so many different ways. We don't have time for me to tell you everything I do with technique. I also require them to know their cadences. I mean, sometimes people come from abroad and they play that cadence. Which is 2-6-5 tonic. I want them to know that because it's in music everywhere. And usually it doesn't mean anything. They just do it because they do it. I have them do that in all the keys. They need to know in all the keys and also in minor. 4 kinds of cadences. I ask for the subdominant cadence. I mean, it's always tonic 6-4 dominant and tonic, but whether you play it's this —or you play Neapolitan. I want them to know all those cadences in major and minor keys. And then of course point them out in the music where they're there. Because even though we hear Neapolitan all the time, even in Bach, it just still sends me. I just— it's so wonderful. So substitution chord for this, of course, there's certain things that are extremely musical on their own, and these colorful chords are one thing. Also, the leading tone is musically leads up. The fourth degree of scale musically goes down. You can't just stop there. I mean, students need to know that. That's the Mozart story. He gets up in the morning because Leopold says, Mozart runs down the steps. He has to finish it. It has that compelling tension.

How do you balance the emphasis on technical proficiency with the development of musical expression and interpretation? So meaning, is playing fast everything?

Well, I think probably every teacher advocates practicing slowly, and I practiced slowly, but I didn't practice slowly. I mean, really slowly, so you can focus on memories. If you do it from memory, do it from memory, slow practice. It helps musically where you're going and helps technically too to know what the hand is doing. Can't do that so much if you're playing a string instrument, you know, you're dictated by the speed of the bow, but piano we can do that. Particularly because you play a note and it starts to decay. But I always think of thinking it's between the notes, the music is in between the notes. Instead of— Absolutely. So I have a technique which I, I, I like. It's, uh, to get subdivisions in your fingers. For example, the C minor Prelude, Chopin. So I did the And you got to think of that when you play without those repeating notes. So you can feel the tension between the notes. I told you on the phone about the schmurg animal. Yes. Isn't my invention. It's, uh, I always remember that because it's It's the first letter of different aspects of music, different parameters. And I think it's helpful to separate them. So it stands for SMERG, sound, practice the quality of sound. So many high school students, not just boys, girls can bang. They come in, they're so excited about things, you know, it's so ugly. Even with Bartók and Prokofiev, It's good to have a rich sound. My colleague from the embassy in Budapest said, you know, we play with rich sound, Bartók. We don't bang it so much. I mean, I suppose sometimes in Beethoven he wants something to be really forceful, but generally speaking, we gotta try to get the banging out of the students. Like, it takes a little while, but my colleague and I achieve that. Okay, and then schmirk. What do you think that stands for? Harmony? Yeah, I think it's important for students to understand the harmony from the composer's point of view. A composer, I like to think, I mean, for traditional music, thinks of this harmonic progression going to— where are we going? There's a modulation that goes to here. And then you put the clothes, the flesh and blood on it. And usually students do the other way around, learn things note by note, and it doesn't make sense. Of the overall feel, right? Overall direction. Uh, R stands for rhythm. To make sure you get accurate rhythm, use the metronome. It's extreme. I think I have decent rhythm, but I can't trust myself. I have to check it out with metronome, which includes subdivision of the beats too. If it's a quarter note, you do it eighth notes, sometimes sixteenth notes, because my rhythm isn't perfect by any means, and I am If I record myself, I'll say, Michael, you're not playing in time. What are you doing? Not that you stay in time. Good composers want you to have rubato and bend things, but you always have to come back to that tempo. And it's a very good idea to check ourselves, check your tempo in the beginning of the piece, the development, the coda, difficult passage, to see if it's the same as the beginning. 'cause often it's erratic. And then M stands for melody, of course. Play the melody by itself. It's amazing how few students can play the melody by itself 'cause they're so used to doing everything with it. Yes. And then G stands for growth. It's another name for architecture or musical structure. Not just sonata form, but the length of the phrases. Schubert often will have phrases of 8, of a 5. 4. 5. Brahms and the Variations on an Original Theme is 5 plus 5 is 10. The whole period is 10 measures long. So that's the schmorg? Is that how you call it? Yeah, I just schmorg. So S-H-M-O-R-G, that's the order? Right, that's right. Sound is the most important. If you have an ugly sound, who wants to listen to anything else?

Absolutely. Another question would be, how do you approach performance anxiety and help students develop confidence on stage? That's part of, like, it's a big portion of being a musician, right? Dealing with that.

Yeah, I think it's very important to perform a lot because you perform once in front of class and it's a disaster, it's not the end of the world. Just come back, you pick yourself up and keep doing it until you're successful. It's just a matter of Perseverance, or a colleague of mine said stick-to-itiveness. Keep at it. You can't expect to play super well just right away. It's a process, just like life is a process. Record yourself. When I was making one of these 5 recordings, I recorded like the music at least 12 times because I didn't want to waste a recording engineer's time by me saying, oh, I didn't play fast enough or slow enough. So I resolve those issues through recordings. And then when I go into the recording session, it's— I go through it a few times and I take the best. Sometimes once is enough. Listening to your colleagues, I mean, play for your colleagues, play for students, play for the dog, play for the cat, play for your parents, anything that might make you a little uneasy or nervous so you kind of get used to it. Good musicians Almost always get nervous to some degree. Horowitz was a basket case. They had to push him out on stage. Of course, he didn't look nervous. Know your music. I mean, really well know your music. That, I think that's probably the best— avoid too much anxiety. To know your music well enough, let's see if I can do something for you. Do you know what that piece is? It's Opus 109. 109. Um, or the last movement. So I'm I'm pushing— some people call it ghosting. I, I feel the notes, I feel it, but I don't play it in order in the pads of the fingers. And another way of doing it is you don't even feel the pads, you just sense which finger you're going to play but don't really put any pressure at all. And it does 3 things. Number 1, it secures your memory. Number 2, it develops sensitivity. 'Cause it's much easier to go, you know, it's really hard to play. And develops your sense of where you're going. And also, did I say memory? Yeah, the memory, where you're going and the tone. So I'm listening for, I'm hearing everyone else knows G sharp, B, E. Changing to A major, but the E stays the same. Can you hear that? Mm-hmm. Okay, and I'm also changing the pedal very slowly, so it's an overlapping pedal. And there's so many ways of listening extremely slowly, even It's really slowly with a good tone. That's a piece, that Brahms sonata, to bang.

Yes, that's it. It's really fun to do that first movement. Yes. But yes, now I am more convinced to tell my students to practice slow because you said so too. So, you know, because my students don't believe me, they think that the practicing fast will get them somewhere. But I tell them to do the opposite. But it's very hard to convince. And then, you know, I'm guilty. I was like that when I was a teenager too.

So probably me too. My favorite piece is a Chopin. I love it. What kid is going to go— Nobody. They're kids. They're going fast. But you know, it's worth trying to convince them. In order to keep a kid's attention, like when I taught in a camp in Kentucky, Maple Mount Music Festival, I had this room that had a 9-foot Steinway. Wasn't that great, but it was the Steinway Grand. And it was in the Madonna room. It was on a Catholic Ursuline order area. And so pictures of Madonna everywhere. And so I said, everybody get underneath the piano. Have you ever listened to music underneath the piano? It's like being in a speaker in the box. It just envelops the sound. It's an incredible experience. My daughter did that when she was a kid and I would be practicing. Really? Oh. Practice softly, otherwise you break their ears. Right, right.

I need to do that with my students. That's a very good idea. Now, you have such love and passion for teaching. I can really sense that passion through this screen. And then, so when did you know that teaching would be your life's work?

That's difficult to say. I was teaching in college for money. I mean, it's a good source of income. And then I went to Baltimore and— no, I'm sorry, University of Montana. And I taught there for 4 years. And at Peabody, I was hired to teach in the preparatory department. And I suppose that's when I really enjoyed getting to know the students and helping them. I remember this one older woman had a lesson and she showed up, but there was a huge rain downpour. Baltimore is kind of on a hill, and there was water 10 inches deep. And I, I was going to the lesson, and I slipped, and I lost music and went down the drain. No, I got there, I caught it beforehand, but I showed up for a lesson like a drowned rat. And she, she, she was so nice. She said, well, that's okay, we'll do it another time. I loved her for that. By the time I got to Interlaken, I was really dedicated to helping students. As I said, I found out that You have to get to know the students to help them musically. If there's something bothering them, they're really upset, they're crying, you just can't start saying, "Do your Hanon." You have to talk with them and be willing to do that. I was lucky to teach in high school because it's not like college. Teacher comes in, you teach the lesson, you don't see them till the next week. That doesn't happen all the time, but frequently it does at the college. In high school, we're mentors, we're surrogate parents. Piano building is one building area and students practice there. We're walking down the hallway, we hear somebody play a wrong rhythm or note, we just pop in and fix it immediately. We— I took them swimming for a couple years on Wednesday evenings, uh, take them skiing, um, have them over for dinner a couple times a semester. We'd have Christmas parties, we have graduation parties. As a matter of fact, that's how I lost my finger was I took them on a hike and I went over a barbed wire fence and didn't realize it was a lot further on the other side down. Oh. So we, uh, they helped me back to the house, mangled, and the nerves were severed. And so, uh, very memorable outing.

Well, I know we're going to discuss more, much deeper into that topic later. I know It happened a couple of years ago, right? 2015. 2015. Okay. Yes. So obviously that is a life-changing moment for you, but we'll discuss that a little bit later. What are the most important lessons you've taught your students?

Well, my watchword for everybody, for faculty, colleagues, students, is balance. It's important to have a balance on your life. It's so easy to be narcissistic and just be totally involved with what you're doing, practice 6 hours a day and thinking about the next practice. Even if a teacher, if you're teaching and you're just thinking about when your next practice session is going to be, your focus isn't on the student, and that's, that's no good. I teach my students to be supportive of one another instead of just always me, me, me. And, you know, it's just natural for you to be concerned around your own development and career, but along the way it's important to be aware of other people. Support one another. I have a chart and I require the students to attend 15 recitals per semester. That's not too— that's not a lot, but it's It's to prove a point that it's important to support one another because normally they wouldn't do it except for their few friends. I said, go to concerts you don't even know them, go to a saxophone recital, anything to get 15 concerts so you listen to music. And so it's an honor system. When they go to a concert, they check it off on the board. So I think it's important to support one another. Let's see. Oh, One thing I've taught is, I got this from a very dear friend and colleague who was 80 years old from China, Benjamin Yu. And he said, you know, if the students can get 85 or 90% of it right, they should feel satisfied. When you set yourself up for perfection, it's like for failure because you just can't play perfectly, especially if you're trying to be creative and take chances. Perfection is not the end result. So if you can get excellence, 85 to 90%, you're doing well. Special moments. I try to say if this particular turn of phrase or this harmony really sends you in some way, you can impart that to your audience. It's great. The bottom line is I think performance is human. The goal is to have human interaction. I meet, reach somebody, and they come backstage and they're in tears, I feel I really, they really loved what I was doing, and I pouring out my heart for somebody, they felt it.

Well, your students are so fortunate to have you as a mentor and teacher, and Poki is one of them, and he really always tells me about the experience that he had with you. So, but, you know, as a teacher, what's great about being a teacher is I'm a teacher too, and I learn from my students quite a bit. I think it's the reciprocal relationship that I love about with my profession. So any lessons you learn from students?

Yes. Oh, yes. Yeah. I learned a lot from students. I learned to listen what they're saying. I mean, if something's bothered them in life or they can't do something, they worked hard, they can't do it, I listen to them. Now, if they didn't do something because they didn't practice, well, they're out the door. I don't like that at all. But if they really try hard, but they didn't make so much progress, I discuss what it is. And so they have to tell me these things. Although it's probably obvious. Let's see, it's important to be available between lessons. I mean, if you're having a lesson 2 hours away, you can't expect to have the teacher be with you all the time, but here or in the neighborhood, you can get involved with the students' lives. I have a colleague who goes to somebody's tennis match whenever possible. I try to do that for my grandson. There are other interests that people— if people have balance in their life, they're not just playing the piano constantly, and that's all they're doing. I mean, it takes a lot of time and effort to do that, but if you just do that, you're a little bit one-sided. I'm grateful for my University of Montana training at an undergrad school because I studied liberal arts, French literature, English literature, British writers, art history, anything that had to do with creativity. It helped my music. So it's important to not be so self-centered or just focus on total piano. Although they have to be taught that you have to practice a lot more than you really are.

Right, right. Yeah.

And if you practice more than 6 hours, you're likely gonna hurt yourself or else it's gonna— you'll get brain fog. That's tops. And it's different for other— for different people. Some students with small hands can strain more easily, so you don't want them to practice too much, too many hours, or in the wrong way. A teacher really needs to supervise how they're practicing. Sometimes I will watch somebody practice to see what they're doing. Other times I'll have students watch me practice to see what I do, because practicing means something different in the learning process. You always say, well, don't just run through something. But at the end, you can run through things 3 times in a row. That's very helpful. I learned that from Conrad Wolff, my dear teacher from Peabody. Wrote the book on Artur Schnabel's teaching and taught me great things. And he said, one of the best things is just go through a piece 3 times in a row, like seeing a movie 3 times. You know what's coming up. But at the beginning, you'll break things apart in Schmörg method. One little thing I learned from the student is stretching my fingers. I'm going to show this to you. Okay. It looks like just a contortion. I do it every day and I get my students to play it, do it every day. Okay. Is to stretch the webbing between the fingers. So the— can you see that? Mm-hmm. G into the perfect fifth with 2 and 3. It causes the elbows to go out and to go down. And then slowly twist it so it's the opposite. The elbow's in, the fifth finger's down, and the thumb down. You just go back. And forth. Kind of like, I don't know if people know what Silly Putty is, you know, if you stretch it slowly it moves, if you stretch fast it snaps. You don't want to snap. And then you do it with, well, I can't do it here because I don't have the fourth finger. The left hand's 3, 4, back and forth. So be mindful of the elbow going out And then in and in, then 4-5, 4-5. I mean, and if a small hand can't do it, go to a perfect fifth, perfect fourth.

Thank you with all these practical tips to philosophical topics in, in terms of teaching. So now let's switch gears and chat about your life as a pianist and recording artist.

Next.

First of all, how did you discover the love for music? Did you grow up in the music to go home? And what was the turning point for a young Michael Kuhnradt to start developing a passion for becoming a pianist?

That's really an interesting subject because I like many things. I was never adamant about playing sports in groups. I liked individual sports like tennis and swimming, skiing, but we're talking about age 5 and 6. I remember my parents said, "If you're not going to practice, we're not going to give you lessons." "Oh no, I want to play piano." So my teacher arranged the theme from Zorro. That's a show that I liked as a kid. I still remember it because, let's see, and I liked it because you could do this at the end. Yes. That inspired me to practice a little bit more. I mean, I liked nature. I was at that time in Arizona. I loved, I was in the frog and toad stage. Although in Arizona it was in the snake and lizard stage and scorpion stage. I like critters. I like hiking out in the woods. I always liked that. And back down in Montana, up here where there's a lot of pine trees, I just dearly love being out there and lying in the grass or the pine needles. It's one of my favorite smells is pine needles warmed by the sun and hearing the trees, the wind blowing the leaves in the trees. I It sounds a little bit like the whoosh of a pedal when you lift it. So I had cap guns when I was a kid, but I've never wanted to be a hunter just 'cause I had cap guns as a kid. As I said before, it's interesting how the early teenage years, all of a sudden, the fire, fire in the belly starts. For me, I guess I was 10 years old and I loved the Rachmaninoff C-sharp minor prelude. Everybody knows that, of course. But my teacher said it's too hard. And so I took that as a challenge. And so I went and learned it and memorized it and then played it for the class in school. And so I think that's a lesson for us all to realize. If kids have a passion to learn something, we need to listen to that. If it's something that's way beyond them, I think it's wise to say, well, just put that on the piano and we can do that someday. But here's two pieces that are very much like that. For example, instead of doing Rachmaninoff, you could do Kabaletsky and try to meet them halfway. Don't be discouraging. Don't be negative. Always be kind of positive. But that piece was— I was able to do it. And then another experience I remember was being with my grandparents in Missouri. And I went to the small town store and I found a copy of Rachmaninoff's Second Concerto. Which everybody loves. And I was just fascinated with it. And I started practicing that incessantly. And then by the time I was a sophomore in high school, I was able to play it with my high school orchestra. So that created— that was it. Then I started practicing a lot. Senior year in high school, I got up at 5 in the morning and practiced 2 hours before breakfast. And I go to high school. And then I go to the university afterwards and practice 2, 3 hours, then come home, do homework. I wanted to do it. I wanted to do it good right away. My mother would say, you know, you just can't do it overnight. I said, yeah, I want— time's a-wasting. I'm interested to see how that passion is developed in others, and I usually ask them. It's hard to pinpoint. Those milestones in my life.

Right. Yeah, but everybody has that sort of moment where, oh, you realize, oh, I better practice more because I like it and I love it. You know, I love the way it makes me feel afterwards. Yes, I—

But also students will say, oh, I practiced for 3 weeks. I don't feel like I got better at all. And we have to counsel them. We don't see gradual progress. We see all of a sudden they're there. And then all of a sudden, we're there. You'll notice it gradually. But also if you have different goals, yearly goals, monthly goals, weekly goals, daily goals to say, I'm gonna spend 15 minutes on this passage of 4 measures, then you get better. And you don't get better by just running through things. You have to address the issue and you have to just say, well, what technique is this that we use? Is it rotation? Is it arm? Is it wrist? Yeah. Okay. So where were we?

No, it's great. But now, who was your mentor?

We are so very lucky if we have at least one person who believed in us. And for me, it was Lyschen Hutt, a Dutch pianist who was 10 years old when the Germans invaded Rotterdam. He has really vivid memories of that. I think in his later life, he was a hoarder. If he saw a kerosene lamp that he liked at a garage sale, he'd buy 7 of them. I mean, it had to do with him growing up and he didn't have food. He didn't have shelter. He didn't have wood for fires. And, you know, can you imagine growing up during that Holocaust? It's terrible. But he would tell me, if you can make special moments, a few special moments, then you're successful. And so that was And he said, I'm capable of doing that. So that just stimulates me to believe in what I'm doing. And the other person was Konrad Wolff. I spoke about him earlier, a biographer of Artur Schnabel. I learned some great things, like the line is the most important. You got to keep a line going because piano, the sound decays with every note. You have to make sure you keep on going. And there's a way of doing that that sometimes makes it just as linear as a violin. String instrument. But I was playing Schubert B-flat Sonata for the Liszt Society, and he was there, and he had to catch a bus or train, he had a commitment. So he was there for the first movement, and he wrote me a little note which I still have, and it says, "I'm furious I have to leave, but I want you to know you're doing everything right." So that made me really love Schubert's music.

Which you have the entire CD dedicated to Schubert.

Yeah, 2 CDs in that, 150 minutes. It's just that that music fits my personality. Beethoven's great. Beethoven often is very, very aggressive and, I mean, dramatic. Schubert's dramatic is also, but in a more elegant style, elegant way, except maybe the Wander Fantasy is very Beethoven-esque. But In the rest of my life, I would like to spend time with Schubert's music. And my dear colleague, we both love the music of Schubert, and she asked to help her know how to play the Fantasy in F minor. And I wanted to do the Brahms Piano Quintet for two pianos. And so we did both those together.

I want to know a little bit more about your musical career. Any memorable performances that you experienced that you can share with us today?

Well, in 1994, I was granted a sabbatical leave, and so I was asked to play a concert at the Chopin Academy of Music in Poland. And also in Poznań, another town. And so I played George Crumb's Christmas Suite, George Walker's First Piano Sonata, really important works of the 20th century in America. And so that's what they wanted. Poland is really interested in 20th century— 21st century music now, a leader. And so they wanted to know what American 20th century music was all about. So I went there and I played. I gave a master class. I showed them how the Christmas Suite was conceived, and I played it for them. That was really a wonderful experience for me. Also, I played Chopin's Third Scherzo for one of the Polish teachers who's a renowned Chopin expert. And I remember the main thing she said was, Chopin wanted his music in time. Play it in time. And that resonated with me because I don't really care for self-indulgent music. It's not elegant. It just draws attention to, oh, I'm so musical. But you can create the respect for one's playing by promoting the composer and not going overboard. That's what I like about Schubert. I mean, it can be just so gorgeous. But if you stray from the tempo, too much rubato, too much retard. It seems to lack the elegance. So I learned that from her. That was one experience. The other two influences were— or memorable experiences were playing these concertos. One was the Kinji Bunch Concerto for the left hand alone that I commissioned, and I was so very lucky that when I lost my finger, colleagues, friends, family collected $30,000 for me to commission music for the left hand alone. And so I had played Kenji's music before. I saw him in Maple Mountain. He was the guest composer, and I had played his music, and it's— there's a lot of jazzy rhythms. Not jazz like in Gershwin or Duke Ellington. It's just syncopated. And really attractive to general audiences as well as my colleagues. When I selected Kenji to be the composer, my colleagues said, "Oh, I was hoping you would choose him." So I premiered that with our semi-professional orchestra in town of Traverse City, the Traverse Symphony Orchestra, and I played an encore of the Danny Boy for my left hand. So it was very touching to see that I had made lemonade out of the lemons.

It's amazing that you are continuing to perform despite of, you know, life's curveballs. But, um, yeah, it's great.

The third thing was playing, uh, the Chaconne in D minor by Bach, but arranged for the left hand alone by Brahms. And the ironic thing was I learned that 3 months before I lost my finger because I loved it. But like 3 weeks after the amputation, I was teaching at the Amalfi Coast Music Festival in Maiori, Italy, and I played that, you know, with a bandaged right hand. And I also, in subsequent years, I did the Kenji Bunch Concerto with the second pianist. Those were memorable experiences for me.

Yeah, now that you mentioned about your finger, you know, so let's talk about your finger injury first before we are getting into your recording, uh, you know, CD albums that I have here with me today. But so I know you mentioned that it happened about, uh, 8 years ago, 2015.

2015, I was 65 years old. And it was Memorial Day. Well, Memorial Day weekend. Yeah, so it's very memorable to me.

You were taking your students somewhere, right?

Well, it was before graduation, and I wanted to have one last get-together. So we had dinner, and then they wanted me to take them to Interlaken's property, which butts up to our fence. And so we have 12 acres, so I hiked over there and I I jumped over the fence and I don't know how it happened, but I was wearing a padded glove, but I had my father's big ring on that finger. And so when I jumped over the fence to try to find a way for them to get through the fence, it got hung up and the other side was 10 inches lower. I didn't realize that. And so I'm here to tell you that shock happens instantly. Not shock like putting your finger in a light socket. It's just you completely lose strength. You can't believe it. Didn't bleed very much, but, you know, I was holding it up like that. And so they found a hole in the fence and they pulled me through it. We went to the house, which is only a football field away. My wife drove me to the hospital and they called an orthopedic surgeon. And people were saying, oh, we can fix that. It'll be okay. It'll be okay. But it's pretty mangled. And he said, you know, if you cut it off, we can suture it on again. But when you mangle all those nerves, there's only about 10% chance you'll be able to have the finger. He said, because you have insurance and you're a pianist, we're going to try everything. So in the middle of a rainstorm, thunderstorm, they flew a jet helicopter up from Ann Arbor University Hospital to pick me up. And they had to take me in a gurney to try to find the helicopter. And we went all the way down there. My wife didn't go because she needed the car. So she went home and then drove the next day. And so they got me there. So within 4 hours of the injury, 5 hours of the injury, they did a 3-hour surgery. It was supposed to have been some kind of innovative Chinese experimental surgery. And then they put my hand in a plastic, billowy, hot plastic thing with a hair blower going through it to try to get the blood flowing. They even put leeches on the end of my fourth finger to see if— you know, they still use leeches. Really? Oh my God. But they didn't sense anything of interest, so it didn't work. So after 3 days, It was obvious that it wasn't working. So I just say, okay, take it off. So I'm really grateful that they took the whole thing because if it was just half, it kind of hit my way. So there's two things I remember instantly. Number one, I'm really grateful it didn't happen to a student. I mean, I've had a career of performing. I have 5 CDs. Well, 4, one is 2. And then, um, You know, I'm 65, I'm 73 now. I've had a good life, but to have it happen as a teenager would be horrible. And the second thing I was grateful for, it happened with the weakest finger. If I would ever strain my hand, it was always the fourth finger, because the fourth doesn't lift very far. My colleague says, you know, you sound better now. I don't know if I can believe him, but I do know that when I was a kid, I was really adamant about substituting, you know, substituting every finger to make it legato. I avoided advice against it till finally I realized it's more constricting than just playing the tone. So a good tone could be produced by your finger or a pencil. I don't have a pencil, but it's a matter of— I mean, you can— in other words, it's not so good to— unless you're an organist, you have to do that. But so there's 2 with octaves. It's hard to play 5/4 with octaves. I play 5/3.. But if you play 5-5, it works. So I do a lot of 5-5 for octaves and having strokes to make, like a marimba, you play with a certain pressure, it comes out a nice tone.

That's how I adapted. But, you know, you mentioned about shock. I can't imagine the shock, right? But then tell us about the process of recovery because that's another phase after you really see the shock, you sense the shock. Now, next phase would be physical and emotional recovery process. And how did you maintain even through then? How did you maintain your passion for music and stay motivated?

Well, I was really lucky that I played the Chaconne of D minor in Maori in the festival. That kept me going, and it was successful, and they liked it. And one Italian man, he came up and he kissed my hand, and, you know, they're very, very emotional over there. And so I got a lot of feedback that way. I also realized that my colleagues were building this incredible fund for a left-hand concerto I mean, these things that happened wouldn't have happened otherwise. So I can't say I'm grateful to lose a finger, but it turned out okay. And I subsequently found out I can play with both hands. Like on the Dedication recording, I did that with 9 fingers. And there's 3 left-hand pieces on it, the chaconne, the Scriabin left-hand etude, and my Danny Boy. But everything, like the symphonic etudes of Schubert, Schumann, I have to confess that I can't play first inversion chords that well. For example, in A major, the first inversion is C sharp, E, A. But you know, you don't want to do 1, 2, 3, 5 because it stretches the hand. It's a strain. I can do that if it's really slow, but ordinarily I just leave it out. Because that's the note you voice out anyway. Instead of playing— because you got a lot of tonic notes anyway. So I can play many things, but I can't play Chopin etudes or Liszt pieces, which is okay. I've done enough of that in my life. I want to focus on the composers I just mentioned— Bach, Schumann, Brahms— and they tend to be chordal. Rachmaninoff might be difficult because there's a lot of fast scales in Rachmaninoff. And, you know, I'm just interested in playing beautiful music. My colleague Hae Min Kim and I, we played recital and we did Overture to Candide by Bernstein arranged by my good friend Chip Miller. That was really fun. I can do that. There's not too many scales. But then we did the Schubert Fantasy in F minor. That has some scales in it, but mostly chords, broken chords. Yeah, the fugue. I mean, I can do fugues. And then the really difficult part was the Brahms Piano Quintet. Used to be a quintet, string quintet, and then Clara said, let's make a two-piano sonata of it. And then finally it arranged— he arranged it for piano quintet. That's its final form, but the piano sonata is definitely fine. My colleague who's a violist says, I like the two-piano version better. Oh yeah? Yeah, there's some few notes I— there's a lot of fast notes, but a lot of octaves and chords. And so that satisfies me because I have some balance in my life. In my retirement, I'm, uh, I've for decades I've wanted to build a diorama of my home city of Missoula, Montana in the middle of the Rocky Mountains, uh, with, with a train running all around it.

And you're building right now?

That's right. So I spent 5 hours a day on that. We did that recital. We're going to be doing some more. Play for church, for church choir. I work with the Boy Scouts as an adult leader. You know, that keeps me busy. And for anybody who's retiring, I would give advice. Don't retire unless you have a project, something to do. You want to go back to work doing something else. But I wanted to be retired. They even asked me at Interlochen, could you come back and teach piano lessons for people whose major is something else? And I said, no, no, I really want to be retired.

Oh, what advice do you have for other musicians facing— I wouldn't say similar, but, you know, very difficult life's setbacks right now due to life's unexpected curveballs? What kind of advice do you have for them?

Well, I feel a little self-conscious for saying certain things like this is the world's worst thing, but, you know, I could have lost an arm or a leg Or people come back from war or automobile accidents. I mean, compared to that, this is nothing. I can still play with both hands. But still, it was shocking. I would say count your blessings. There's many really good things that have happened to me because of that. And I'm grateful. So many wonderful students who keep in touch. The collection of money for the guest artists for Interlochen students and faculty. Stay positive. I mean, I'm really lucky. I have a wife of 52 years, 3 wonderful children, 4 grandchildren. You know, I'm really fortunate to have some good things happen to me.

Poh Ki Wong, so we talked about, he was the one who introduced me to you, but he was practicing your Danny Boy on the left hand. Yes. And then I remember seeing one video clip that he was practicing on Instagram or something. Anyway, can you tell us about the arrangement? So, uh, did you compose or arrange pieces before that, before your injury, or is there something new?

Ironically, about 25 years ago when I was playing bagpipes as part of my balancing act. I really love Dying Boy because it's one of the most beautiful songs ever written. And so I arranged it for two hands. It was for a ceilidh, which is a Scottish party. But I lost it. And then all of a sudden this finger thing happened. And I thought, oh, it's really— I bet I could do that for left hand alone. And it took me a long time to figure out how I was going to do it because I wanted to have counterpoint in it as well as the melody. And then the arrangement, I'll send it to you if you're interested. It's not easy. You have to really work hard at voicing because you have to play the melody like it's a voice, but then you might have the melody up there. So I arranged that, and it's been a nice encore to play. And I played it for the assembly at Interlaken when I was my last week there. I played it in the Mafikos Festival, and I finally recorded it on the CD you have.

The dedication CD, yes. Hey there, TPP family! The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song is now into our 4th season, and it's all thanks to you. Since 2020, you've been with my journey with the TPP, exploring this burning question: How do we make classical music resonate with today's audience in fresh and captivating ways. 4 years in, and the journey has been nothing short of magical. The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song isn't just a podcast; it's a movement, a space where pianists, composers, and educators brainstorm, debate, and reimagine classical music's place in our fast-paced world. We're together on a mission to ensure classical music how music doesn't just survive but thrives in our modern age. But here's the thing: to keep bringing you these insightful biweekly episodes, I need your help. Every bit of support goes into the podcast's essentials, from hosting to high-quality recording tech and the countless hours behind the scenes. So, do you want to be part of this journey? Click the PayPal link in the show notes or head to thepianopod.com/podcast come to donate, and as a token of appreciation, I will personally mail you The Piano Pod with snazzy logo sticker. So hit the subscribe button, spread the word, and let's continue our mission and journey as classical musicians. Now let's continue with the show. We're going to talk about your recordings now, but where can we get these CDs?

Everything except the dedication is on Spotify or YouTube.

And then dedication, if they wanted this CD, should they contact you?

Yeah, you can, um, they can write to me, email, email kunradmm@interlaken.org.

Okay, now I will list that in the description so, so that my audience can reach out to you and then get the CD. So speaking of CDs, so I have all 5 of them, but actually this has 2 of them inside. So 5 CD albums here with me. I want to particularly know 50th Anniversary Favorites, and also you— we talked about Dedication, and also, um, The Life and the Music of Albert James Fillmore. So let's start with 50th Anniversary Favorites.

Okay, open the COVID the jacket, and show Show us the picture of my mentor, Lucien Hutt. Yes, which you mentioned about him. I dedicated this with him in mind, a Dutch pianist who studied with Wronski and Babin, the famous piano duo team, and they had studied with Artur Schnabel. So I have that connection there too.

So now let's talk about the other album titled The Life and Music of Albert James Fillmore. Could you share more about Mr. Fillmore, his background, and your connection with him? Additionally, what inspired you to undertake the production of this particular album?

Well, he's a dear friend, um, about 80 years old, and he had a cottage up here at Crystal Lake, and he would come up to visit. And I knew him in like 1987 when he was composing these preludes for piano. And he wasn't trying to do unique things in contemporary vocabulary. He called it the Muse of Chopin. And he just loved the preludes of Chopin and decided to write them in the different keys. And they're short, but they're not insipid at all. They're on wonderful harmonic progressions. Some of them are very difficult and some of them are good teaching pieces. So it goes from C major to A minor to D major to B minor. My adult students really love them. And so he had a cottage in Owasso where he was born, literally. And he also is professor emeritus at the Center for Creative Studies in Detroit. But he never drove because his father told him, "You're accident-prone. You don't drive." What a thing to put on a child. So he was always bumming rides. So we would take him down to Detroit. If I'm in Detroit for a conference, we'd come up, I'd take him to his cottage. So I would sit with him and watch him compose these pieces. And he was somewhat of an Anglophile. He loved William Blake, his poetry, and he wrote songs, lovely songs. And so he passed away after living with us for a while. He was recovering from hip injury, and he was in a nursing home with people who needed extra help. But he didn't need help. He just— his mind was right there. So my wife took care of him, for half a year before he went down to Detroit. He did. Yeah, he developed a staph infection in his hip, and they couldn't— oh, I see, he broke his hip, but he had a staph infection. They couldn't operate until they got rid of the staph infection. He never did, so he passed away from that. Oh, and I wish I had made this CD before he passed away, but I'm continuing his legacy by Bringing it to teachers in Michigan. I wish I could find other ways of promoting it because my wife desktop printed all the preludes and also this piece for organ and orchestra, Variations on What Love Is This. And so it's a beautiful CD with a biography, 40-page biography that she wrote on his life. And she, she's the one to do it because she knew him really well. They had the preludes and the orchestra piece and biography and children's choir pieces and the songs by Roberta Visi. And it's a great anthology of music. And we, we did that.

Wonderful. Yes. Um, yeah, there, there's like a really chunk of book, sort of like a booklet inside of the album and talks about you know, the legacy of the composer and also his— some anecdotes documented with his handwritten letters sometimes you see, and photos from his childhood and the houses that he used to live in, so forth.

Interesting. And he did study with Nadia Boulanger, 1939. He was over in Paris. And they had, because the Germans were invading France, they had to get out immediately on a ship. He was on the last ships out to come over here. And she always told him, just follow your heart, compose what you want to compose instead of being forced into something. Wonderful man, and we miss him.

Yeah, I listened to the prelude. Very beautiful. In many ways, they are like, um, many romantic literature, The Piano Literature, the feature of romantic period, but also sometimes you can hear some hint of impressionism as well.

Yes, and Schumann, the F minor is very Schumann-esque, and the F major is, is very Gershwin-like. My favorite, my favorites are the The E major, the B major, C minor, B minor, uh, A-flat major.

Well, yeah, I need to listen to them again, but thank you so much for sending me all these CD albums to me. Um, I, I'm enjoying listening to them. You have such a long career as a pianist and piano teacher, so what's the secret to a long career?

In performing arts? It's not easy. Well, it's my life. I mean, I love my wife and my family, of course, first and foremost. But my reason for being is to play the piano and to share that with students and performances, of course. And so that's— I've known that ever since I was— well, I guess I said I had the passion when I was 13 or 14, but I played the piano my whole life. I think that music should be shared, not just playing for yourself, although it's good therapy to play these pieces for yourself. I've been reliving the Spinner, the Gretchen. My wife said, "No, why are you doing that?" I said, "Well, because I love it. I don't need to perform it anywhere, but I would like to share it with people." So human interaction is really important to me when I give a concert, just like I tend to not like receptions because you can't talk to one person for any length of time. I like the one-on-one visit. I guess I've done it my whole life and I feel it's part of my heart. Um, and I enjoy getting to know the composers and seeing what's maybe in their heart. That's why I like teaching piano literature because I did it from the point of view of the composer. Showing the students how it was written, how they must have been thinking structurally, harmonically. They just don't wake up and do this great piece, right? They do rules, and they don't sound like rules, that sound creative. If you analyze things, you know what's going on.

Now, uh, this question is for you as a music educator, a piano teacher. So how has music education evolved throughout your teaching career, and what are the most significant changes you've observed?

Um, the obvious things is the technology, the recording, and the cell phones. When I was a high school student, the present my parents gave me was a portable tape recorder. It was this big, and it was reel-to-reel, and I used it a lot. It was portable. It was heavy and awkward, but I used it into graduate school and it was very, very helpful. Nowadays you put higher quality in your pocket, of course.

Yeah, absolutely.

Thanks for obvious— the change. But for students, well, we can say that the focus is a lot diminished just because of the media and television. And when I listen to movies from the '50s, there's these long swaths of speaking. But nowadays, it's very short periods. You think they can say one sentence and then they cut, and then they learn another sentence and they— that's not the rule. There are exceptions. There's some really great acting in like deep dialogue or monologues and dialogues. But generally, there's less focus. I mean, look at these quips between the TV shows or the like they're telling you all about the TV shows and the movies. And so you see half a second of this and you go to this and you go to this and it just makes me nervous. Just fast, fast, fast. Yeah. But for students, I don't know, people are people. Maybe the styles, you know, the styles of clothing is so much different. I see really smart students, much smarter than me. I mean, this student, a very special student, Davis, he's going to Yale now. And he can take so many different classes and he plays piano like I want to hear piano. He hears the harmonies. He can play a fugue. He knows what chord structure is. He's the ideal student. But he's a whiz at math and he takes different courses in economics. And I think, what's he going to do? There's so many things, paths he could follow. One thing I failed to mention before is that I think students need to realize that you can't just follow one path and expect to do this, for example, be a concert pianist. There's certain options that most of us take and the most common one is teacher. And if you're not people-oriented and you don't really care to share with people, what are you going to do? You're not going to perform all the time. It's hard to make a lot of money playing. I play concerts, but I don't make money to live. I teach. So you have to really enjoy people to be a teacher. Right. So I can't tell the difference so much a difference in people. People are people. I mean, the language, I mean, the foul language is everywhere in music and even interlocking. We just try to dissuade that. I don't hear it so much, but when you're in public, you hear these words that are offensive to me all the time. In that regard, I'm kind of old-fashioned.

So how relevant is classical training in today's, this very fast-paced society?

Well, I think that it can really encourage longer attention spans and more focus and more dwelling on sensitivity. I mean, the ancient Greeks used to have music therapy. Some persons just all they did was sports and triathlons and like football players and coaches today, just strong. That's their reason for being. You need to balance that out with things that are more gracious and sensitive, dance, music, art. You need to have, here's that word again, balance. It's important. It's so easy to be just doing piano, piano, piano. That's all I'm doing in my life. My balance is getting out in the woods and hiking and camping and canoeing. It's mostly music, but I balance it with many other things too. And then the Greeks, they knew the value of therapy. That can't be one-sided. I'm hoping that that could be a model for kids these days. That's why I say balance is really important. Balance can make— like if you go out in the woods and just lie in the grass and just relax and relax your muscles, then when you get back to practicing, you're more relaxed and you actually practice better.

And that place like Interlochen allows you to do that because surrounded by nature, that's So, so enriching as a young student, you know, to experience that while practicing. Then you get out in the nature and being able to. Right.

And they take walks because we live on 1,200 acres and it's all wooded. They like to take walks, which is good. But I like to take students out in the canoe. And if you turn over the canoe, that's fine. You just get up and get the water out and you gotta immerse yourself in it. Or take them out into a kettle. A kettle is a depression in the land that used to have a glacier in it and carved it out. So there's a place that's emerald green water. It's beautiful, but you have to get in the mud. I like to get hot and sweaty and hiking, but I really like to get cleaned up, even if it's a cold stream. That's the kind of nature I'm talking about.

Wow. That's so nice. What is your thought on our duty or gift as classical musicians to society at large?

I don't like to be one-sided and say classical music is the best thing in the world. Like P.D.Q. Bach says, "If it sounds good, it is good." I mean, people like country music. I like it. It reminds me of Montana. Hip-hop, jazz, there's all sorts of really, really great music, good quality music. Oh, do you like hip-hop too? Oh, sure. Oh, yeah. See, if there's a Simon and Garfunkel from the '60s, I love that. It's still prevalent. The Beach Boys, of course, the Beatles, high quality music. It's not just 3 chords. I think classical music has 3 chords, but it also has modulations and it has structure to it. It can really elevate a person's mind. And also hopefully sensitivities to the sound. I mean, fugues, you know, the pendulum has swung so far, Renaissance, Baroque. Renaissance was kind of a classic time and you go to Baroque and it got to be more romantic. And then you got these thick fugues no one could follow anymore. So went over to just 3 chords with Galuppi and Tartini and Haydn, Mozart. And then you get to Beethoven, which is, you can't follow the the Gross Fugue, and then you go back to— I mean, it's just always swinging back and forth. There's all different kinds of classical music. But of course, Peter Kubocki said music was always— was once new. The old music was new at one point. So who's to say what popular music is, right? Popular music was Brahms' Rhapsody, Hungarian Rhapsody, Liszt, or Brahms waltzes, or dances. That was a hard question to answer in grad school. What is popular music? How's it different from classical? Well, as we associate classical composers, it can be considered archaic and old, 16th, 17th, 18th century. But when you perform it, it's there right then and there. It's not like going and seeing a museum and it's just stationary objects. It comes alive. And we, I always say that we are recreative artists. We breathe life into the music. It's like taking, cloning a dinosaur and making it live again, if that would be possible ever. So it's not creative. We like to be creative in the way we recreate other person's music.

Now, what's the next phase and next goal in your life?

Well, I was so excited that my dear colleague, the collaborative pianist here of the second year, asked me to play a recital with her. We did 3. And that happened exactly when I played piano for almost 55 years. To tell you the truth, I'm I'm a little tired of memorizing. And so I want to be more relaxed in my life, and I spend time building my HO scale model railway diorama of Missoula, Montana. That's a big function, but I don't do that all the time. But I'm not getting out of music. I want to play chamber music. And so we did this two-piano recital, piano duet recital. We We're going to do more of that. So those are two aspects of my life. Travel. I want to travel. We just, with my wife, we took our granddaughter and her friend, age 19, to Portugal and Spain, Barcelona.

Wonderful. So lastly, any message, advice for young musicians and piano students?

Try not to be so concerned with yourself, what you're going to do, because along the way you're missing out with meeting friends and having a balance in your life and going skiing or doing other things that are, that are more social. I see some students who are phenomenally talented, but they don't know how to relate to other people, and I think, what kind of life are they going to have? They're going to have to learn that it's not just all about me, me, me, me. So be careful with that. Be— have a positive attitude. Count the blessings you have, the good things in life. There'll always be trouble things, and you have to downplay that. My colleague, who's no longer living, said, "Accept the negative, dwell on the positive." Absolutely.

Wow, thank you so much for this fun, inspiring— what a rich conversation we had, Dr. Conrad.

You're such a wonderful, wonderful host. It was just really a pleasure getting to know you and answering the questions.

Oh, thank you. Same here. But before I let you go, we have one more thing to do. It's called The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with rapid-fire questions. So this is the part of the show where I get to ask fun questions to each guest. Now, here's a little twist. As silly as these questions may sound, your answers may reveal who you truly are. So I'm sure. Ready or not, please answer them with the shortest responses as possible. No explanation is necessary. Okay? Okay. Well, let's start with—

Wish me luck. Okay, yes.

So, let's start with easy ones. Level 1. What is your comfort food?

Italian. Lasagna. How do you like your coffee? I'm allergic to it. Oh. To coffee? Caffeine.

Really? Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. So what do you drink in the morning? Water. Water? Sounds great. Cats or dogs? Dogs.

Sunrise or sunset? Oh, sunset, particularly dusk.

Oh, beautiful. Summer or winter?

Spring. No, no. Okay, you have, um, um, um, summer. Paper book or ebook?

Paper. Level 2: What skill have you always wanted to learn but haven't had the chance to?

Build a model railway.

Okay, which you're doing right now. Yes. What is your word or words to live by?

Balance in your life.

What is the most important quality you look for in other people?

Genuineness, sincerity.

Name 3 people who you inspire you, living or dead.

Lucian Hutt, David Holland, Conrad Wolff. Name one piece in your current playlist. Uh, Schubert B-flat Sonata.

Level 3: What do you believe in the key to a fulfilling life?

Listen to my wife.

Good answer. The last question, please fill in the blank: music is blank. Human interaction. Beautiful, thank you. So that concludes this episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Dr. Kumrat. Thank you, Dr.

Kumrat, for— what fun this was—

oh, for joining my show today and sharing your stories, insights, and expertise. So for listeners, if you, you, if you want to find out more about Dr. Conrad and his incredible work and legacy, please reach out to him via email at ConradMM@interlochen.org, right? Yes. Okay. And I will list that information in the description. You can listen to his recordings on all major music streaming services, Spotify and YouTube and so forth. And thank you to my wonderful audiences and fans for tuning in today. If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review it on whatever podcasting platform you use. Remember to hit the thumbs up button and subscribe to my YouTube channel and follow The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song on social media to get the latest piano news via Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. I will see you for the next episode of The Piano Pod Bye everyone. Bye, Dr. Kumarat. Thank you so much.