Season 5 Episode 6: "Healing, Heritage, & Musical Transformation" -Yamaha Artist, Dr. Artina McCain

Hello, Piano Pod friends and listeners. Before we dive into today's conversation with inspiring guest Dr. Artina McKay, I want to take a moment to acknowledge the timing of this interview. We recorded this session on October 24th, 2024, just days before the recent U.S. presidential election. As we release this episode, the world is witnessing a pivotal moment grappling with the impact of this election and what it signifies for the future. However, the conversation you're about to hear was recorded prior to knowing the outcome. It focuses on Artina's tireless advocacy for underrepresented composers, her profound commitment to diversity and equity in classical music, and her journey to bring greater inclusion to the arts. We believe that these themes are more relevant than ever given the current social and political climate. While we may not touch directly on the election results, the topics we discussed reflect a deeper, ongoing commitment to change, representation, and the power of music as a force for unity and healing. Thank you for joining us for this important conversation. Now, before we get started, I would like to introduce our sponsor for the month, the Artsong Preservation Society of New York. Their generous support makes this episode possible.

I'm Blair Bounmagoura, the founder of the Artsong Preservation Society of New York, and I'm inviting you to join us for our Summer of Song Festival 2025 hosted by Manhattan School of Music. Join us for enchanting artsong recitals, and masterclass performance workshops led by international artists. Visit www.artsongpreservationsoctny.org for details, and join us in this realm where music speaks and words sing.

Welcome back to the new episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song. Today I am so thrilled to introduce our guest, Dr. Artina McCain. An award-winning pianist, Yamaha artist, wellness advocate, and educator. Artina was nominated by Nana Ogwo, pianist, educator, and founder of Juneteenth LP, whom I had a privilege of interviewing last season. A big shout out to Nana. Thank you for nominating Artina as our guest of this season. And if you haven't listened to Nana's episode yet, It's Season 4, Episode 4, so please check it out on YouTube or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Now let me tell you a bit more about today's incredible guest. Dr. Artina McCain has been hailed as a virtual soprano by The New York Times. She has graced prestigious stages like Wigmore Hall, Carnegie Hall, and has performed with top-tier orchestras such as the Dallas Symphony and Memphis Symphony. Artina is a passionate advocate for underrepresented composers, curating concerts to showcase their works, and she has received widespread recognition for her recordings, including her award-winning album Heritage. Beyond her impressive performance career, Artina is also a leading voice in musician's wellness. After overcoming a performance-related injury, she now shares her insights through lectures, articles, and presentations, helping others navigate their own wellness journeys. Her work has been featured on platforms like PBS and BBC, and she is currently an associate professor of piano at the University of Memphis, where she continues to shape the next generation of musicians. Before we dive into this inspiring conversation, I wanna take a moment to thank our incredible TPP fans and loyal listeners. Your support keeps this show going, so if you enjoyed what you hear today, please rate and review us. It truly helps others discover the show. For those tuning in for the first time, welcome! I am Yukimi Song, a classical pianist and educator based in New York City. Whether you are pursuing a career in music, working in the classical music industry, or just passionate about piano, this podcast is your backstage pass to the fascinating world of The The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song. In each biweekly episode, we connect with extraordinary talents who are shaping the future of classical music. Our mission is to build a community that embraces fresh perspectives, ensuring classical music thrives in today's ever-changing world. Be sure to check out the Season 5 introductory episode to get a glimpse of what's ahead, and don't forget, you can catch up on previous episodes on your favorite podcast platforms or YouTube. Now let's dive into Dr. McCain's inspiring journey as a pianist, wellness advocate, speaker, and educator. Please enjoy the show. You are listening to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song, where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry about how they are bringing the piano into the future and thriving in a complex ever-evolving world. Welcome to The Piano Pod with Artina. It's so wonderful to have you today. Oh my God, you're one of the most sought-after artists to book an interview, so I'm super grateful.

Thank you. I'm happy to be here.

Thank you. So I actually met you a few years ago, very briefly, though I don't expect you to remember me because it was really brief, but also it was a little under unusual circumstance. It was late, late 2021, early '22, around the time when in-person live events were starting up again with many restrictions, and we were all wearing masks.

Oh, please keep going. I want to— please refresh my memory.

Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah. And then, well, except for the presenter, which was you, and you were in New York for a few days to perform and then Probably you are promoting your book, The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song.

Oh yeah, the African American folk songs. I think so, right?

Wasn't it around the time you were publishing the book?

Oh yeah, yes, I went to the Yamaha. Is that where it was?

Yes. Yes, I was part— I am still part of the Piano Teachers Congress of New York.

Oh, you guys were great!

Oh, thank you. It was so fun, you know, and then talk like this. Yeah, yeah, I know. That's why I don't expect you to remember.

Now I do recognize your eyes.

Okay, good. But I think you're the only person who were able to— who were allowed to, uh, not wear the mask at the time because they were the presenter. Anyway, it feels like such a long time ago, but at the same time it was like only 2 years ago. It's amazing, right? Then I think the topic of your presentation was about incorporating diverse piano literature into teaching. And so at the start of your presentation, you asked if anyone from the audience could volunteer and list the names of the composers that their students were performing or playing. And then I remember a few audience members raised their hands and they all said their students were playing the usual suspects, right? Like Bach, Beethoven, blah blah blah. There's nothing wrong with those composers, of course, but in contrast, you presented the intermediate piano pieces by underrepresented composers, composers with various backgrounds, mainly from your newly published book at the time, African American Folk Songs. So I want to ask now, how are we doing in terms of keeping up with this being more inclusive? And, you know, it was, of course, the time was a year after big 2020 Black Lives Matter movement, and that was a big wake-up call for a lot of, a lot of us. And also, I remember I was talking to you afterwards, and then Remember the Kaufman Competition, youth competition, also started incorporating those compositions by underrepresented composers. So what's your take on that? Like, did we lose the momentum, or are we doing a good job keeping up with this movement?

That's a great question. So I kept doing that presentation. Yukimi, you'd be so proud of me. I've done it in many other places now. You all were actually one of the first that I had done. Outside of National Conference of Keyboard Pedagogy. So since then, I've done several schools, and I do think that we're doing better. Now, when I ask the questions, people have one or two that are like, oh, you know, those are unfamiliar. We still have a lot of Bach, Chopin, Liszt, Brahms showing up in competitions. But I think as we, you know, podcasts like this, teachers like you, myself, keep talking about it, more and more people are like, oh, you know, I really need to find, you know, something that's underrepresented or even just something that represents myself, which is not usually Bach, Beethoven, or Brahms. So most people kind of fall into a category where they're not being seen and heard. So I think we are doing better.

Great. Yeah. And also that movement, 2020, broke the barrier of gender too.

Mm-hmm.

Don't you think? And I'm seeing a lot of artists starting, uh, incorporating more female composers and female living composers.

Yes, no, most definitely. I think awareness is the first step to getting people to actually making action changes.

You've been a passionate advocate for underrepresented composers and especially composers of color. You've been promoting their works before 2020. I know you've been doing this for a long time, and so what sort of obstacles have you encountered promoting, and particularly in classical music spaces that traditionally focus on white, dead male composers?

Yes. Well, and thank you for saying that. Yes, I have been doing this work, actually, probably, you know, I started kind of when I was a student, not on purpose, but just because I had a few mentors who were like, hey, you should look into this, you should look into that. Before it was trending at all. You know, actually, my professor in my doctorate degree was like, you should play George Walker, who is an African-American composer. He won a Pulitzer Prize, you know, so why aren't we playing his music? So I had my first recording actually in 2011 of African-American art songs and folk songs and spirituals, sorry, with Icy Simpson Monroe. And that was sort of the eye-opening moment where I was like, oh, I should keep diving deeper into this. You know, it actually started with me playing vocal music and chamber music. And so since that time, actually, that time I thought was sort of the golden era. There weren't a lot of opposition because nobody really knew what we were doing. So they were like, oh, that's that weird thing she likes to do. But, you know, since 2020, where it became more publicly known and more people sort of jumped on a bandwagon and some of them have already jumped off, you know, I think it started off like, yay. And now I feel the opposition is like Some people think we're taking something, like if we give space to people who are underrepresented or not represented at all, you're taking something away from the standard repertoire, which I think is very unfortunate because I think we all win when we're inclusive, you know? I mean, really, very few people are represented in the canon if you start to think about it. So if you live in America, there's not even much American representation in the canon. So I kind of feel like everybody should be wanting to expand the canon because it just provides more opportunities for everyone.

Exactly. The opportunities. Exactly. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Scarcity mindset is the opposite of that.

Right. Exactly. And that's what I think is creeping in now, unfortunately. So, I mean, I'm still doing great work and still have lots of invitations to do the work. But every once in a while you get someone that's like, oh, this this is a lesser-than project, or this is not as good as if we just sit here and listen to Beethoven sonatas all the time. So we— I won't name any names, but we definitely have had a little bit of that.

Hmm. The thing is, to think of less, right? So one particular group of people or group of composers. For example, I'm obviously Asian, and then there are so many Asian population in the classical music world. However, Do you ever hear Asian composers?

Exactly.

Hardly.

It's weird. Very, very— even, even less than Black composers now.

I know. There are so many of us in the industry. So, you know, and so scarcity mindset. So that also reflects in other opportunities outside of music as well. Whether that is political or— right?

Yes, yes. And I think also it's kind of a mentality of worship, like people worship these composers from certain countries even when they don't represent themselves, which I think is like mind-boggling. I'm like, you're worshiping sort of an oppressive mindset that's come over you that prevents you from actually being who you are. So I think the more, again, awareness and just conversations like this that gets people thinking, because I think some people don't even realize that they've sort of like put Bach in a shrine on a temple, you know, in a church somewhere, and they bow down to him. Um, so I just think if people realize that, you know, there, there couldn't have been— I always say there couldn't have only been three great minds in all of humanity. Bach, Beethoven, and Brahms could not have been the only intelligent people. So we've really got to look for who else is out there.

Oh yes, definitely. Now Despite these challenges, I'm sure there are plenty of positive and memorable experiences you've had while advocating for greater equality, equity in music. And can you share some positive and successful stories?

Yeah, well, I think things like this, like your story of remembering me coming to your teacher's organization, that's awesome. I think something else that's been very encouraging, you know, since 2011 when I was, you know, just a student, but til now is to seeing like how my students have progressed. And I've worked with students in different states and different places, but they're definitely— back then, which wasn't really that long ago, you know, nobody really was bringing that type of music to master classes or to lessons. And nowadays I have more and more students bringing me works that they feel like represent themselves. Like I had one student bring me Mexican composers. I've had more students bring me female composers, and that really never happened before. I never— not voluntarily. I mean, they would want to play Chopin or, you know, kind of the top 10. And so that has been awesome because then I also learn new things because I can't know every person who feels underrepresented. But when the students start participating and bringing their own voice, I think it's been really awesome. It's cool for me and it actually keeps me fresh as a professional.

Now, what steps can institutions like conservatories and orchestras take to better support composers of color, underrepresented composers, in their programming? Additionally, how can they create more opportunities for those musicians who are not, you know, represented to rise as conductors and producers and professors? In these spaces? Woo!

That's where we need an army. We need some help. I think that the grassroots effort has done really well, like, you know, students coming in and people, local teachers and communities has had a lot of awareness and a lot of push. You know, unfortunately, and I'd be curious even your feedback too, I feel like the higher we go up in the ladder, as far as, you know, the more and more famous orchestras and more prominent institutions and arts organizations, I feel like we see it less and less and less. You know, even I was in LA the other week and, you know, I saw the marquee and again, it was mostly European males and maybe one female conductor, you know, no brown faces. And I, you know, had to even look for an American face because, I mean, I'm telling— talking about international guests coming over. So not even kind of supporting the community in which we live in here in the country. So I think we have a long way to go. I think it's going to matter what— who's on your administrative team, who is your president, who's your executive director, and being really particular about bringing in those voices and not calling them sort of lesser than, which I think is quite problematic.

That lesser than is the issue, right? To change that, we really need to bring more people in. Like diversity because people really need to see it.

Yes. And it helps your audiences too. I run a chamber music series here in Memphis, Tennessee, and most chamber music series I've been to or performed at, you know, is mostly older white faces, which is great. But those faces don't look like mine. I mean, I will be very hard pressed to see another Black face in the room listening to a Black performer. And so, I mean, my dream is that I would see all the faces in the room and they would be enjoying artists that look like them and also learning new things about people who don't look like them. And so I think until we have more diversity in all the spaces, you're also going to have a huge population of people who love music and art who will never come because they don't know why they should. It's, you know, it doesn't look like them, and they don't have a background in education in music to, you know, intellectually want to go. So I think that it's an unfortunate marketing disadvantage too, to limit who you market to.

Absolutely. Yeah. Well, we started out with a little bit too serious, so I want to make this conversation lighten up by Well, talking about your album, and which is beautiful, I was listening to this album all morning long before I— we started this conversation, but also for several days. It's called Heritage, and it came out in year 2020. So can you introduce us to your solo album Heritage?

Oh yeah, sure. And I've got new albums coming out next year too, so, um, oh great. No, no title yet or anything like that. But Heritage is interesting because just as I said, I sort of started my journey as a student in 2011 and my doctorate degree. Heritage is kind of an exploration, I guess, of that decade of the 2010s of American music. I actually, after I started playing them African-American spirituals and art songs, I realized that I didn't really know too much about any American music, you know, outside of Gershwin and Copeland. And again, there's got to be more than two great lines, you know. And so I started digging into more American music. On that album is, at the time, was one of my colleagues' music, Ken Metz. And so I recorded some of his hermititos, and then I also did other American composers like Margaret Bonds, Charles Griffis. And so, you know, now those names have become more and more familiar to us. But when I first started the project in the early 2010s, not that many people were playing it as often. I think 2020 helped sort of propel a lot of that, which is great. And so that's what that album is. And my upcoming project is also going to be a deeper exploration of American music and other composers from the diaspora and underrepresented voices. I just— I'm very interested in finding them and bringing them to light. And so I'm excited about that, too. Oh, wow.

Can you get us like a little sneak peek into your new album? Like, who would be the composers and the— Maybe just a little hint of repertoire list.

Okay. So a very small hint is I have been playing a lot of Joseph Joubert, who probably many people, they've heard me play in the last year or two, have heard some of his music. He's a fantastic conductor, pianist, and actually most known in the Broadway world. So being a New Yorker, he was most recently, he did The Wiz and he's done Color Purple. And, and so that's really been his focus in life. And so a lot of people don't even realize that he's written concertos and orchestral works and solo piano music because he is classically trained. So I'm really excited about championing some of his music in many ways. And yeah, there'll be some other composers coming too, maybe a little Shirley Thompson. She's a British composer, very well known there. I wanted to add some— a female, of course, onto the album. So just people who are doing amazing things, who have award-winning music that unfortunately our kind of bubbled classical community don't know. But they— I don't even like saying they're underrepresented because, I mean, I think he's Grammy nominated and, you know, all of the things, but just underrepresented in our small world.

Right, right. Wow. That's— I can't wait. So when will you publish this album?

Hopefully next summer. I'm liking this pressure though, because I drag my feet and I have the recordings already. So yeah, it should be by next summer.

Oh, wow. Wonderful. I can't wait. And so, so let's talk about heritage again. And then I see some, let's say, hymns or gospels like Amazing Grace, Old-Time Religion, Go Tell It on the Mountain, and which was arranged by Teresa Woolf. Tell me.

Yeah, and actually that particular arrangement, I actually did some of that. I kind of— I wanted to. So the Amazing Grace at the time, my grandmother passed away in 2017 and I had created an arrangement to play during her homegoing service. And so I actually played what's on the album at that service and I wanted to preserve it in some way, the way that I had arranged it. And so that's actually what you hear on that album. Really?

So like growing up, have you arranged or maybe did a little bit of improvisation?

No. When people ask, I think I wish I had, but I hadn't actually. I just, I think in the African-American tradition and culture, actually many people grew up playing in church or playing by ear, and I didn't. I actually grew up with more of a classical music education. And sometimes I feel at a disadvantage in my community because I feel like I got, you know, sort of robbed— not robbed, but, you know, the teachers I had didn't understand that back then. There weren't conversations about, you know, mixing genres or even acknowledging things outside of the classical canon. And so I didn't have an opportunity to learn about it in a formal setting. And so, no, I don't. But more and more as I age, I want to be more connected with that tradition, that oral tradition of our hymns and our spirituals and our our gospel music and our jazz and all the things that we contributed to American music, really, I say, and how that's also been merged with classical music. And so actually, that's sort of my fascination with Joseph Joubert is because he does that so effortlessly. And I wish that I did, but I sort of live vicariously through these composers that have done this in such a great way.

But you're doing it. You're trying it. That's amazing. But in a traditional way, it's not jazz jazz, but I see that, I hear the classical background strongly in your arrangement.

Exactly, exactly.

So for my listeners, I urge you to check out Artina's album Heritage on your go-to music streaming services, and you can also purchase this album through Artina's website at artinamcain.com, and the link is listed in the show notes. And I also want to talk about Your African American Folk Songs, which introduced the piano students to unique African American history and music with 24 folk songs arranged for intermediate piano. So are these arranged by you then?

Yes, they are. All of them are arranged by me.

See?

Yeah, you're doing it. I grew. I grew.

That's amazing. Yeah, can you tell? So I recognized The Deep River, of course, that's a very famous song, and Ride on King Jesus, and oh, Take Nabanji, am I saying correctly?

Oh, Take Nabanji, uh-huh.

Because that's a— there's a, of course, famous transcription by Samuel Coleridge-Taylor, right?

Yes, yes, and that was my inspiration. I wanted to take the Negro song that he heard, you know, in the early 20th century. He came to the United States and he heard all of these these songs by the African-American people. And then he wanted to make his own arrangements of those. And so I sort of did my research and I thought, oh, these are some that I'm not familiar with, but I want to make them accessible for younger students because his version might be a little bit hard to play. And so just like we have many reductions of Für Elise, we can have many reductions of Negro songs too.

Absolutely. Yeah. And then so they are still, of course, available on How Leonard website and your website too, right?

Yes, yes. It's a great collection. And Howlin' It actually has many folk songs in their collection of folk songs from all around the world. They have Korean folk songs, Japanese folk songs, Irish folk songs. And so again, I just love the heart behind wanting more people to be seen and really happy that I had the chance to do that for my community.

Going back to year 2020, the Black Lives Matter movement had a significant impact across many industries, including classical music. And you've been a researcher, advocate for composers of color, and so on, long before 2020. But how did the events of that year influence your work as an artist and advocate, and what lasting impact has the movement had on the representation of Black composers in classical music?

Yeah, what a great question. You know, sometimes I think there's these moments in time, and they're very emotional, right? Because especially probably for Black people, you know, it wasn't new. Like, most of us already knew these things were happening, and those were just things that were part of our daily lives. Like, I'm sure in many communities that are struck with some type of adversity, you know, this is a part of their daily life, but then it becomes very public. So it's kind of like a group counseling session, you know, which can feel very uncomfortable with people that you don't know so well. But those things have to happen for larger change. So I'm glad that it happened as for other people, because it was always going to be a part of my story regardless of if 2020 happened or not. So I'm happy that other people are aware. I'm also happy that it also brought to light the fact that so many other people were suffering from various adversities. I'm happy that, you know, there was sort of a tsunami of change, I think, in that year or so. I think the problem with sort of group change or things that happen very quickly is that you know, then there's always some backlash. There's always people who are taken off guard because they didn't really even realize these things were happening. And then it feels sort of threatening to them, unfortunately. And so I think that for those of us who were doing the work, we just kept on doing it. You know, it didn't really change too much for us. I think the people who maybe they got excited during that time and maybe have sort of fallen by the wayside now, I'd like to encourage you to, you know, get back on the bandwagon to keep it going, that, you know, these things when we have inclusivity, it helps all of us, not just the person that you're helping, you know? I mean, it's even just in our communities, you know, if we help the least of those in our communities, it helps the whole community be better. And so I would encourage you, if you're not on the bandwagon, to get on the bandwagon, you know, to, to learn to— there's so many resources out there that can help you make a change, you know, whether you're a teacher, you're an arts administrator, you're a professor, a student, whatever you do, whatever little part that you think you have, It's actually huge because that's what moves, you know, these mountains, these orchestras to continue to not only play 3 composers, but to start inviting other people and to expand their artist rosters and who can be seen and heard.

Wow. Well said. Thank you. So now, how can we inspire more pianists and musicians— maybe you already answered— but students to explore their inner selves, identity and language lifestyle, and reflect that depth in their programming?

Yeah. How can we inspire them to do that? Hmm. Well, I think showing them. So something I've been trying to do, I hope I do well. I don't know. Maybe my students will write on your podcast and say, I don't know if she does that so well or not, but is to bring in other guests. So whether that's a speaker or someone playing concert or we run an international piano competition every year. Even the judges were very mindful that we have representation in the adjudicators, very mindful that they hear and see other repertoire in the studio because, again, I can't know everything that people want to hear. But if everybody sees me doing it, then they feel welcome to do it. And they might hear one of their peers play something that they're like, oh, I want to play that. And so I feel like it's a community effort. You know, again, that's why all of our parts, even if it feels like a small thing, is very important for each person to do it because it's like, yes, just by you bringing a piece that represents you to studio class, you inspired your peer. You know, just by me performing something, I inspired somebody. Me bringing in a judge that looks like them. That inspires them. So it's just all these little things that make big changes.

Now I want to pivot our conversation to more of your amazing career. You've built such an amazing, extraordinary performing career, performing with major orchestras like Dallas Symphony and in Memphis and so on, and giving solo recitals at renowned venues like Carnegie and Merkin and more. Now, I watched a few videos. Your repertoire list ranges from Mozart, Chopin to contemporary pieces. It's amazing. And I watched your performance of Mozart Fantasy in C minor. Whoa, that's so hard, but your performance was just so superb. Now, looking back, what have been some of the defining and memorable moments that shaped your artistry, you think?

Oh, there's— I feel like there's so many.

Oh, please. You know, you're more than welcome to brag here. That's why I created this platform. So please do.

Okay. Maybe I'll pick two and talk about two. Okay. So I mean, again, and then I feel like, oh, I'm going to leave out one and somebody is going to say, like, you didn't think that was memorable? But no, I think two for— very special reason. So I got to play at Wigmore Hall, which, you know, sort of an epic career goal to go to London and, and play at such an iconic place. And we were playing the music of African composers. So not to be confused with African-American composers, but people whose heritage is directly from the continent. I have a great composer friend, Fred O, and he is doing amazing things in the Ghanaian and Nigerian communities. And so I feel very honored that he asked me, you know, as an African American, not connected to the culture of the continent, to play some of his music alongside one of my friends, Titus Underwood, and flautist Ebony Thomas at Wigmore Hall. So it was in celebration of the music from Africa, from Africa. And so I think why that— I mean, besides it being Wigmore and an amazing concert series, the thing that was really powerful was that backstage in Wigmore, there are all these faces of famous people who have played there, you know, Menahem Pressler, Martha Argerich. I mean, there's so many people, conductors, composers, and just everybody, anybody who walked in there. And I don't recall seeing probably more than a handful of brown faces, if any. And so the fact that we were there representing music from Africa, you know, not even as an African American, but music from Africa, just was mind-boggling to me. And just what a ceiling, you know, what a crack in the glass ceiling to have that concert series there. I mean, curated by Rebecca Omordi. She's a fabulous pianist. And I believe she's of Ukrainian descent and also from an African country as well. Chess, those kind of things are mind-boggling. I mean, yes, it's great to play at Wigmore, but it's more beautiful to crack a ceiling that should be open to everyone. So that's one of them. I think my second one, which I also think is just as cool, and we were kind of chatting about this before, is that Solange Knowles, who many of you might know as Beyoncé's sister, is also really interested in curating concerts, and she has a huge platform, obviously, and she's interested in multi-genre music, particularly the music of African Americans and the contributions that we've had here in this country. And so last year I got to perform in New York at The Piano Pod with the Brooklyn Academy of Music in a show she curated about gospel music, but she included the music of Mary Lou Williams, who's a jazz pianist who was a jazz pianist, undersung, but actually pretty well known in the jazz community. And I actually didn't know of her until I got asked to play her music. And so that also was just iconic, not just because it's Beyoncé's sister, but because now we are marrying and mixing genres, which I feel like when I was a child and that was my everyday language is, you know, listening to gospel music at home, but then having to sort of separated from my classical lessons, you know, now those two things can be in the same space. You can have jazz, gospel, classical. And to me, those things are just epically beautiful.

Wow. But you just, you just bombed with this huge big name like Patrick. I'm still like processing. Sorry.

Wigmore and Beyoncé don't even seem to go in the same sentence, but That's what's so cool about it.

Oh, wow. You— that— what an opportunity. How was it like to work with Solange? You guys plan to collaborate more?

I hope so. I hope she keeps calling me. Yes. I mean, Solange, I think, is one of those huge thinkers that maybe is just sort of even outside of a generation, right? I mean, for so long we've needed spaces We needed to be in the spaces like, you know, Wigmore has been needing to invite other people in. And so, like, I think Solange's platform allows people who maybe would not be performing, you know, at Brooklyn Academy of Music alongside jazz and classical. She's making that normal. And the audience was just incredible. I mean, they didn't— don't have doctorate degrees in classical music or jazz, but they could resonate with what we were doing because of how it was presented.. And I think that's why it's a memorable experience. Not even just because Solange is like a huge name, but it's just like what she's doing bridges gaps. It's a community builder. Wow.

Yeah. That's a lot to think, take in because, um, I have been doing this podcast for a long, for 5, close to 5 years. And I was about, it's been about bridging the gap and how can I reach out to more people? With this classical music. That's how it started, right? And so is it about watering things down to make things a little— I don't know— then? Or what is it about interdisciplinary work, which is— yeah, it works. But yeah, it's a lot to think about how it is.

And I think— and the thing I think is cool about the Salon Show is she did not water it down. Like, we played Mary Lou Williams, avant-garde jazz mass, and the people heard it, you know, and I think it was just how it was presented, you know, where it was placed in the program alongside what, alongside different artists that, you know, people in the gospel community would know, you know, the Clark Sisters. And they're like, oh, I want to go see this famous jazz, you know, gospel singer. But at the same time, you're also going to listen to this avant-garde, you know, piece by Mary Lou Williams. And so I think being more open about how we present concerts and maybe not being so snooty about who we share stages with will bring more people into this space. And, you know, people went just as wild, standing ovation for Mary Lou Williams avant-garde jazz music as they did for their top 10 gospel song, which is just really unheard of.

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Because I'm a New Yorker, I'm very curious to know about your performance at Merkin Hall, especially because I also got to watch the video. And one piece, one of the pieces was the "Pan con Timba" by Aldo López. Gavilan. How do you pronounce this?

Gavilan.

Gavilan. Okay. Yeah. Can you tell me more about that program itself and maybe the specific piece?

Sure. So, yes, I love you all's Merkin Hall. It's so, you know, it's so beautiful and also unassuming at the same time. You're like, oh, this is Merkin Hall. Okay. So I've gotten to play there twice. I will talk about the one that you saw on the internet was affiliated with the Gateways Music Festival., and the Gateways Music Festival, also a similar mission as my own personal, which is to uplift the voices of underrepresented people, particularly people from the African diaspora. And so they put on a number of concerts in New York over the span of, I think it was about a week, and I think that was last year, it might have been 2022, um, and they had a piano night basically. And so there were several pianists on that particular program, and I performed one of the, the Pan con Timba, and I love his music anyway. And actually, if you don't know Aldo López Gavilán, I think I'm pronouncing his last name correctly, but he has magnificent music and he has a piano concerto and he plays a lot himself. So, you know, maybe you'll be fortunate to hear him live and play his own music. But during the pandemic, I actually reached out to him because I had been sort of dabbling with it and I'm very interested sort of in the Afro-Cuban music. And so I asked him just, you know, about the rhythms and, you know, can you add percussion? And so I've played it many times, that time not with percussion, but it was— it's just always fun to get to talk to someone who's alive about their music and hopefully represent it well in a public space like that. So, you know, the combination of the Gateways Music Festival allowing us to be in that space and to share music with your community was also so fun and just so memorable.

Wonderful! Now I also saw your performance of Debussy's "Menstruals." Yes! Hear me out— I know what's coming. I'm sure you know what's coming but the performance itself was just fantastic. Your interpretation, the rhythm, Oh, they're just so defined and oh, amazing. But you know, that piece is quite controversial because I'm seeing this on internet, like, oh, we need to ban this piece altogether from all the competitions and you should never teach your students this and that. So, and then here you are, you're performing that piece and also, and also you've, because because it is— it has such a dark context to it and historical background to it, obviously. But minstrelsy is not from the United States originally. It's all the way back in Europe, and it didn't have any of those dark connotations to it. But then 1800s, of course, in the United States, it's blackface and so on. And then Debussy obviously saw it, right? And so the— but so why did you perform this? Why you wanted to?

You did such a great job with the history. I'm gonna have to take that soundbite and play it in concerts now. I'm like, beautifully done. Yeah, well, I think unfortunately a lot of people don't know the history as well as you do, and, and I actually prefaced my performance basically with exactly what you just said, is that, you know, it was a medieval art form, but it got real dark later, okay? And it was actually quite prominent at the time that Debussy was writing, both in Europe and America. And I think people don't realize that this is an international problem, not just an American problem. Really?

Yeah.

Well, at the time, I mean, hopefully not too many people are doing blackface anymore unless it's in historical context. So I do preface all of that before I perform it. And then sometimes I perform it in sort of a more grotesque way than others, but just trying to, you know, bring out the fact that despite it sounding like this upbeat, happy, joyful thing, you know, there's a very dark side of minstrelsy and how they had to be feeling but had just become accustomed to and assimilated to, you know, this is their place in life at this time in this historical period. So I believe that we can keep these pieces. We don't need to try to erase history. History is what happened. It's what it is. It's how we grow. We don't have to be ashamed of it. We just need to do better. I mean, you can't do better if you didn't know what happened. So I think that we actually need to keep these pieces in the canon and we need to talk about them because I don't think a lot of people realize how connected history is to composition and what people are composing at the time. Like, sure, Some composers wrote apogrammatic music that had nothing to do with their surroundings, but I don't think most of us function like that. Most of our art is an outpouring of our society, and so we have to know what was happening and acknowledge it in order to grow as artists. So thank you, Debussy, for writing minstrels so that we actually have documentation from someone that people think of as top 10 composer. To remind us of how ugly it is and how we need to do better.

Wow. Well said. Absolutely. That makes classical music timeless, right?

And relevant. Look up the Gateways Music Festival. Actually, it was birthed at the Eastman School School of Music. Some people don't know that. So it's a big thing in Rochester. They actually have a chamber music series in the fall, and their organization is just growing. Last year we actually got to go to Chicago, so they're sort of taking the Gateways Music Festival on the road. And I think, you know, anybody who's doing this type of work, as the more we can bring it to other communities, touring, if you have that kind of budget, it just makes it more accessible to everyone versus like Oh, you can only see this in New York or London or, you know, some fancy place. Like, no, it's coming to your backyard. And I think that's important for all of us to have the opportunity to see, but also to encourage us to continue with whatever community you're meant to serve.

I want to know your beginning a little bit. So could you share how your journey as a pianist began? What initially sparked your passion for music?

Yeah, so I like to start this story with, you know, my mother didn't like my singing, and so she put me in piano lessons. I was a very chatty child, which plays very well into my career now, speak, doing lots of speaking engagements. But, you know, none of my parents did not play music, actually. My grandmother had a piano and she played some music. She taught a little bit and she also played at her church. And so I, you know, outside of her, I didn't really grow up with like in a musical family, you know, that I mean, they appreciate music, but it wasn't what anybody did. And so I started kind of at the age of 9, old. And then I continued. My dad actually got a job in Orlando, Florida. And so I had the opportunity to go to a performing arts magnet high school, Dr. Phillips High School. And that was really, I think, a magical moment in time, not only because I got to go to performing arts high school, But because the students at that time who were there, they actually now are famous. Like, there's like a couple of famous comedians, like one of the Aladdins, the genie, was from my high school and his face is on billboards on Broadway. I think he only recently stopped that role, but a lot of them are now very successful. And so you can only imagine, you know, as a teenager having all these people who have that kind of energy and passion for their art being in one place. So it was very just, you know, a one-of-a-kind thing. One of the dancers ended up on Michael Jackson's last tour. So, I mean, just things like that. Those are the people I was around. And so that sort of just fed my love for my art and my music to be around people like that. And it just kind of kept going from there. You know, I just kind of bit the bug and I never stopped at age 14.

Then you went on to study music seriously, like, you know, of course, college at Southern Methodist University and then master's from the Cleveland Institute of Music. And also you have a doctoral degree from University of Texas at Austin. So how did each of these institutions shape you as a pianist and influence your approach to music? Were there any particular mentors who helped you along the way?

Yes. Well, all of my teachers, I love all of them. I studied with Carol Leone at Southern Methodist University. She's wonderful. Katherine Brown at CIM, and then Anton Nel at UT Austin. So all of them played huge parts in my life. And even I want to give a shout out to Martha Healy, even though I wasn't like a direct student of hers. I felt like she was a great mentor to me during my time at UT Austin. And so I kind of feel like the institutions influence you in different ways. I actually always wanted to go to different types of institutions, so I went to private school, I went to a public school, and I went to conservatory. And all of those things offer different, you know, things in life. You know, at a public school, you've got sports and other career fields and interdisciplinary things you can do that you don't have at a conservatory. A conservatory, you practice. Um, and at a private institution, there's benefits of going there too. And so I feel like experiences for artists and students is paramount. I think that's what we bring to our art. And so practicing is not enough. You want to in some way enrich your life. And so I'm very thankful to be in, you know, 3 totally different cities and locations and types of schools to benefit who I would later become as an artist.

Wow. Because of this background, and you're also connecting that to your role as a speaker, you bring your personal story not only through music, but as a musician, through, let's say, uh, screen or through interviews. Yeah. Um, so I want to know more about that part of of you. And one thing I saw was the PBS documentary, and then you were selected as the series of Road Trip Nation: Degree of Impact, which highlights the professionals with doctoral degrees making the real-world difference and so on.

So yeah, I mean, I feel like, you know, that chatty child is finally getting her stage of being able to speak to other people and to share my story with other people. So I'm very grateful for that opportunity. Um, that— the PBS documentary was very interesting. So again, that was an interdisciplinary event, so it wasn't just musicians. Basically, the road trippers, as they called them, were people who wanted a terminal degree and, you know, whatever interest they had. And so they started literally on the West Coast and drove across the United States interviewing various professionals who had terminal degrees in their area of expertise. And just what was that like for them? What was that story? Why did they want a terminal degree? I think especially in music, a lot of people get terminal degrees and they don't really know why they're getting them or what they're going to do with them. And so I think the series was really cool and I mean, it has so many episodes. I'm not sure if they are still producing episodes, but I think you should go down a rabbit whole and just look at some of the fantastic work they were doing in those interviews. They're very, very inspiring for anybody, really, not just musicians.

Yeah, but I can sense that to be in front of people and talk about your career and self, and that takes courage, and you really have to be true to your crafts and identity. You don't have to say everything to the rest of the world, but you want to be synchronized with what you do, right? Yeah.

Right.

Yeah. And I really see that through your artistry, whether that is the speaking or performing, the authenticity, because that's the one of the, the keyword of the season, authenticity and joy. Because in the end, authenticity, I think, brings joy to the people. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I've never, you know, thank you. You enlightened me because I've never really thought about what I've been doing as being so synchronized with who I am, like both as an artist, a teacher, a speaker. So you just brought something to me. I'm like, oh yeah, I guess I do do that, don't I? I think that's the only way to live, you know, and the purposes that God gives for us is just like you should just exude that. It's the easiest just to be yourself, really. I mean, and unfortunately, I think in our craft where a lot of people are striving to be, you know, the next competition winner or the next Argorich or whatever. And there's no way that you're going to do that because you need to just be yourself. And so once I sort of became free of the mindset that I needed to fit on this very narrow path of becoming X, Y, or Z that's been presented to me, I felt incredibly free. Completely easy to be authentic because there's no one else for me to be.

Yeah, but you know, that journey is not easy to be that, right? And then also being authentic, authentic life is to me is a privilege too, because some cultures won't allow you, or some, right, in certain contexts. So anyway, then I also saw the video of, I think, intro portion of the video from the Sideways, which is a podcast by the National Conference on Key Pedagogy, and you shared your emotional journey of overcoming negativity you experienced during your teenage years and early 20s in relation to the piano, unfortunately, right? And then I, you know, I, when I, I heard that, I can so relate to. And but despite the struggles, you held on to the desire to play the piano and then try to really seek for this meaningful connection to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song. So tell me more about this and how you came to this rediscovery of joy of piano playing.

Yeah, well, I want to talk about that podcast. So that podcast Sideways, it's by Matthew Seid and it's actually a BBC podcast. And I got on the BBC. I forget like all these cool things that have happened sometimes. And so I actually had a performance in London at the Barbican Centre, also a fantastic space. I chose a wig more, but I could have chose, you know, that one was also very memorable. And I'm trying to think because I wasn't— it wasn't about wellness. It was— we were actually playing some concerti by African-American women, but somehow there was a reporter in the audience and I think she saw it in my bio that I hadn't played for 6 years and that's what grabbed her. And so she was from the BBC and she wanted to do this interview that landed on that Sideways episode. So. Highly recommend you all to listen to that in full. But that was about sort of how does one come from not playing it sort of at the, you know, most people think the prime in the 20s, you know, from age 23 to 29. I mean, that's when you're supposed to be doing competitions and on tour and all these things. And I was just sitting at home on my futon and to, you know, playing at Wigmore, playing at Barbican. And so, I mean, for me, I'm a person of faith and it's it's a spiritual journey as well, and just like trusting God and what he asked for me. But it was also like having a great community, having people who didn't tell me to quit and go do something that I wasn't really supposed to be doing. Um, it was looking for other opportunities in music that I could do without having to play. So I taught a lot during that time. I had 40 students. That, that's why I feel very connected to the independent piano teacher community Even though I don't do that anymore as a full-time job, I did, and that was all I could do. I could not play, I could not even find, you know, sort of a bigger job teaching because I could not apply for university jobs because I didn't have, um, that the degree, I didn't have the experience. And so that has been a journey for me to kind of overcome mentally, therapy, all of the things so that one can overcome. And then in the 30s, which most people would think your career is already established. That's when I started.

As a performer?

Yes.

You've mentioned that your relationship with the piano no longer feels like a vocation, but rather an opportunity to connect with the human soul. That was beautiful. And how does this philosophy influence your approach to music making today, both in performance and teaching?

Yeah.

Whoa.

I mean, it's so epic. Again, I think kind of goes back to faith. For me, it's like a calling. Like, you cannot do— you cannot not do what you're supposed to be on the planet to do. You need to do that, you know? And that— and I, again, I agree with you. It is definitely a journey. Doesn't feel great in the 20s when you're sitting on your futon and you're watching people win X, Y, and Z competition. And in your opinion, or what you've been trained to think, is that, you know, if I don't do that now at this time in my life, I'm a failure. Or I'm just not going to make it and I'm going to need to do something else. Um, it takes a lot to persevere. I think that would be the word for me to give to someone who's struggling like that. But once you can get through that period of your time of struggle— and please do get the community that you need to encourage you to go on— I just feel like the other side is such a gift and a privilege to be able to share that with someone else. Not just for myself, but because it encourages other people. I mean, we're all going to go through various things in life, and sometimes we don't even know who we're encouraging when we're just doing our thing. You know, I've got mentors, actually, Joseph Joubert, who now I have the privilege of playing his music. He was somebody that I was, you know, fangirling from a distance from for a long time. I didn't know him. You know, I would watch stuff that he did online. I knew of his music.. And so I think if you can just think that you might be encouraging somebody that you don't even know that's watching you from a distance, just to have the stamina to keep going is really important. Just don't give up.

But thank you for being really honest about that time period. It's not easy to talk about, you know, those difficult moments and So that's, that's why what I mean by authenticity, where people tend to hide things or try to portray themselves as someone that is bigger than yourself, right? But that's not the case. So now that challenging period, is that connected to your injury or something else?

Oh yeah, yeah, definitely from my injury. It was a time period that I could not play and I was, you know, seeking different solutions, but You know, everything would lead to a little bit better, but not good enough. So, yeah, I mean, I think as musicians, fortunately, unfortunately, sometimes people strongly identify their self-worth with their job or what they do. And so when you are severed from what you do, it's like you lost your entire self. But, you know, I wish it wasn't the case, but I'm sure, you know, many people, you know, it's like, I'm a conductor, I'm a pianist, I'm a this. And we're so much bigger than that. And that's, I think, the human soul aspect of like, no, I use my art to portray what, you know, who I am. But at that time in the '20s, I was not so spiritually enlightened. And so I definitely thought of myself as I am a pianist. And so to not be a pianist is like a death.

Hmm. But you overcome and you are able to share the story. That's the true strength. I admire that. Yeah. So let's go back to that injury part, not to, you know, focus on the negativity, but you're using that experience to really help others. So I'm curious to know about this muscle activation technique.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So when I went to my, my doctorate degree in Austin, I was connected through a woman at my church to this wonderful practice, which now their name is The Continuum Method. And it was another alternative technique. And, you know, honestly, I had been through so many alternative techniques because this is getting to the end of that about 5-year period. And I was like, I don't want another, you know, I had done Alexander, I had done massage. I mean, I love all and all of you who you know, champion those things. God bless you. And they did what they needed to do for me, but I didn't experience a full healing. And so I had become very apathetic and just like, I'm really gonna have to choose to do something else anyways. I don't really want to listen to you right now. But I did. I heard her and I followed through, and I got connected with this modality. And I mean, it really changed my life. I I could not play to, you know, doing all the things I do right now, which is just miraculous. And so it's called the Continuum Method. I'm happy to send the link that you can put in the show notes. I think they do a much better job than I ever will do at explaining the science, so I'm not going to try. They have a wonderful website. It's basically a manual technique. It's done on a massage table, but they believe in turning nerve endings back on that have been shut off for any number of reasons related to trauma, an accident, uh, you know, you overuse. I mean, it could be many different things, but I have never— I'm a human, so of course I hurt myself, but I have never gone back to a period in life where I could not play for an extended long period of time, as in more than like 2 weeks, um, since doing this modality. So to me, it's just a godsend.

Wow. Yeah, I'm curious to know more about that. So what's the name of the site again?

Oh, The Continuum Method.

The Continuum Method.

And I will send you the link.

Oh, that would be great. You have re-engineered your own playing to prioritize physical ease, technical efficiency, healing, which has transformed your probably teaching approach too, right? And so how has this holistic approach to wellness impacted your studio, your teaching?

Yeah, that's huge. Well, I think, I think it still probably happens now too, but particularly when I was a student, there's sort of a mentality of no pain, no gain. And I think knowing what's good challenge, you know, because we do need to be challenged and that does feel uncomfortable at times. But pain can be detrimental. And so knowing where that line is, that's a very difficult line. And, you know, you have to figure it out for yourself. What's a good push versus something that's detrimental to you? Hurt me because I, I think especially when I was in conservatory settings, which is practice, practice, practice, you know, stay there all day, um, I just don't have the body to do that. You know, some people do, and that's why I say that it has to be individualized. Some people can be linebackers and they can take hits on a field and some people cannot. And so I think I just don't have the muscular build. And later, as I age, I kind of realized, you know, genetically that there were other people in my family sort of suffering from long-term injury problems. And I never really put that together when I was young. And so some people actually cannot practice 8 hours a day or 10 hours a day. They just can't do it. They just don't have the stamina for it. Doesn't make them lesser musician, but they're not going to be the same musician as maybe somebody who's a horse and can go out and play Dante and Liszt Sonata and all the Rachmaninoff concertos in one day, you know. And so I think sort of separating myself, my physical stature, from that, that was actually very freeing to me. Yeah, so I think because I was in that atmosphere then where it's kind of like promoted, and I think maybe even still today sort of with the competition mentality that everybody needs to be a linebacker. Um, you know, once I realized that we don't all need to do that, that might mean that you don't win the competition because you don't have that kind of stamina, but it doesn't mean that you can't play virtuosically. It just means you can't do it for that amount of time. And so I think that that's helped me so much as a teacher because it just, one, it freed me from that being the only purpose for us as pianists, is sort of to train a competition winner and also to be that. But it also opened me up to, you know, people will have different careers in music. Some will be teachers, some will be church musicians, some will be composers, some will work with kids. And those are all valuable. And I think previously I only thought one thing was valuable, unfortunately. And I think that it might still be promoted in many places today where there's only sort of one value you can have as a pianist or musician and nothing else is. So as a teacher, I hope anyway that my students feel like, you know, whatever their career path is that they want to follow, I support it and I will adjust my teaching method to what's reasonable for their skill set and gifting.

Related to the topic, so beyond instrumental skills, you aim to teach broader life skills such as discipline, problem solving, and even compassion. So how do you integrate these lessons into your teaching? Why are they so important?

Yes, and so I think, um, sort of as I mentioned before, as I think experiences are very important and, you know, exposing yourself to things. And so I teach a chamber music, um, class and we play, but I also make them do cultural enrichment. So they have to do things besides going to a concert because many of them naturally go to concerts as musicians. So go to a museum, go to a park in town, go to a festival, anything really, anything that sparks your interest so that you can broaden your horizon. And something that I've learned, actually I've been sort of surprised by, it's that that many of the students had never even stepped off the campus. Like, they had never been to a local museum. I mean, uh, Memphis is well known for the, the Civil Rights Museum. Um, it's a fantastic museum, one of the top in the country. They didn't even— they never even been there, you know. So it's unfortunate that you could live in a place and not even know the things that are, um, the place is most famous for, even going to get some barbecue, you know, in Memphis. If you eat meat, then that's a huge thing. And so all of those things, I think, bring cultural awareness, right? Because you're learning about the people around you and the history of the people around you. And then you can bring that to your music. Just the other day, I had one of my younger students who's 13 tell me that she went on a field trip to Washington, D.C., and she's actually an Asian person of Taiwanese-Japanese descent. And her school, they took her to the African American Museum. I was like, oh, really? And I mean, she's volunteering this information for me. I did not pull it out of her. She's playing a piece by William Grant Still, and she said, I went to the music floor at the museum and I saw William Grant Still, and her face lit up and she just felt like more connected to his music because she had learned something about it in a museum, you know, at age 13. 13. And so I think, you know, little things like that, we don't realize how far they go into just understanding other people who are, you know, not like us.

Your students are very fortunate to have you as a mentor and teacher. Yeah, overall, the wellness of learning, wellness of being an artist, to learn that from you. Isn't our guest so inspiring? I'm sure you're enjoying and learning from from every bit of this episode, so I need to ask you two things. First, hit that like button on YouTube or subscribe if you are listening on your go-to podcast platform. Then follow us on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and TikTok @ThePianoPod with behind-the-scenes content, episode updates, and more. Stay connected and inspired to celebrate the past, present, and future of classical music. So looking ahead, how do you envision the future of classical music in terms of diversity, inclusion, and wellness?

Well, I think something big is to not get distracted. So, you know, pre-2020, you know, there are people doing this work and maybe it was just like, oh, it's that thing they do. Nobody cared. Nothing was triggering. Nobody cared about using DEI words or diversity or— I mean, just Honestly, it really wasn't a thing. But suddenly, unfortunately, it's become more of a mainstream politicized, you know, thing that I think is discouraging some, whereas others who've been in the work, they're, you know, the work they're called to do, they're going to do. It doesn't matter. It might become more difficult. Maybe it'll be celebrated. Who knows? But I just think not to get distracted if it's something that intrigues you. It benefits in so many ways. You know, just like my story of my 13-year-old student, I didn't ask her to tell me that, you know, she just felt like she could and that it enriched her life in some way. And she had also gone to many other museums in D.C. And so I just think it's such an opportunity for us to learn about other people, especially the earlier the age, the better, so that you don't grow up and sort of become disillusioned by every wind that blows in society that tells you you should think a different different way.

Well, thank you. Now, another question would be, what are your thoughts on maintaining the relevance of classical music and ensuring the thriving of the industry in this country especially?

Oh, well, I think being more open to sharing the space, you know, I think actually what Solange Knowles— not just a name drop, but I mean, playing avant-garde music and gospel and jazz, and she also does like some R&B stuff in one weekend. With all kinds of different artists, like nobody really does that. And so I think a lot in classical music, we're very siloed and we sort of worship the spaces and the way we present it. And I think that opening up the space and making it more inclusive, maybe even genre inclusive, to bring in people who maybe they don't listen to classical music, but they like some other type of music to come and to experience it is really important for us to thrive. And to bring more people into the space.

Absolutely. Now, what is your thought on our duty or gift as classical musicians to society?

Yeah, again, I think staying in your lane. You know, we all have something that we're called to do, whatever that is— teaching, playing, performing, mentoring. Don't get distracted by something somebody else is doing and say, oh, I wish I could do that. You know, like, I had to come to terms with I'm not a linebacker. You're not going to see me play all Beethoven in one day or Rachmaninoff. You might see me play one, you know, but maybe not all. And we've got to be okay with that. And so whatever you can bring, it is important and is very valuable to those who will see you. I think being encouraged and being inspired is a cumulative effort. It's not just one person that inspires us all. It's many. And so Whatever it is you have to do, they just say you need to do that.

But to find that path, the journey is not easy, but the— if you take the challenge, the outcome is beautiful, right?

Oh, so beautiful. And you may never— not ever hear the stories of those that you've influenced, but they're there for sure.

So I want to know your future. Nobody knows the future.

I don't know it.

As in like upcoming projects and also— oh, let's start with this. What does the rest of this current season, 24-25 season, look like for you?

Yeah, well, lots of exciting things. Something I'm particularly proud of that I do in the community that I live in is I curate a chamber music a series that's called the Mahogany Chamber Series, and it's in its 5th year minus the COVID years. We got a little distracted, but then we came back and we have a new collaboration with Prism Ensemble. It's a nonprofit in town just to bring this music to more people. And the title Mahogany, it came from the idea that that's what we wanted the series to look like, as in different shades of people. Different composers. And so that next program is January 12th for people who live in the Mid-South or in the Memphis area. Super excited about that. It'll celebrate the life and work of MLK with a small ensemble, a fabulous vocalist. I'll be on the program as well. And so that series makes me very happy. The rest of this year, just next week, I'm going to be playing with Jackson Symphony in Tennessee, doing the Florence Price Concerto. And by my friend Fred O, which I mentioned before with the Wigmore performance. I'll be doing his dance tribute for orchestra. And so those are kind of some big things. There's many other concerts that I can barely remember that are on my website, artinamcain.com, but I have many performances coming. So if I'm coming your way, you heard this podcast, I'd love to meet you.

Oh yes. And then you're on Instagram as well, @artinamcain, right? So people can follow you. Wonderful. Yes. Now, how do you where do you see your career in 3 to 5 years?

I don't know. I hope I see it as flexible. I always want to be relevant to what's going on. I think, as you mentioned, that authenticity— life changes, and that means we have to change with it. And so I hope that I'm flexible enough to do that, whatever that looks like, and who I'm supposed to be reaching. Maybe I'm speaking more, playing more, teaching more, or some combination of those things. Um, but I just want what I do to be relevant to the community, um, that I've been called to influence. So I think relevant would be what I see it as.

Beautiful. Any last thought before we go to the rapid fire?

Oh, oh my gosh, well, this has been wonderful. Thank you for such thought-provoking questions. I mean, I'm like, oh, I'm authentic and synchronized. Like, I should put that in Yeah, yeah, absolutely. No, no, just thank you for such a thought-provoking conversation. I, I hope again that the people whose ears it lands on, that they have ears to hear what's for them and to take that into spaces where they have influence.

Well, thank you. It's a really privilege to speak with you, to have this meaningful conversation. Um, so for our listeners, please go to artinamcain.com to learn more about Dr. McCain's solo and chamber career and her concert updates. And you can also watch some of her solo and collaborative performances on her YouTube channel at Artina McCain. And you can also, of course, listen to her solo album Heritage and other albums as well on all major streaming services. And all the links are listed in the show notes. So This has been such a fun, inspiring conversation, Artina. But before I let you go, we have one more thing to do, which is called The Piano Pod Rapid Fire Questions. This is the part of the show where I get to ask fun questions to each guest. Now, here's a little twist. As silly as these questions may sound, your answers may reveal who you truly are. So ready or not, okay, I want you to answer each a question with the shortest responses possible. No explanation is needed. All right, so let's start. Are you ready?

Yes.

Okay. Number 1, what is your comfort food?

Fried chicken.

Ooh, yes.

Great.

Any particular brand that you like?

I like Memphis's. A famous brand, Gus's. That's got to be a favorite.

Wow. Wow. I need to go visit Memphis now and try it. Yeah. Right. How do you like your coffee in the morning?

I don't like coffee. Really?

Oh, you know what? You're a tea drinker.

I know.

I saw it in your bio. Yeah. So what kind of tea do you like? Which?

Oh, so many, but a nice oolong. That's great.

Cats or dogs?

Neither. Oh, okay, that's the first time learning a lot about me, aren't we?

Yeah. Oh yeah. Sunrise or sunset?

Sunset.

Summer or winter?

Summer.

Now level 2. Okay, what skill have you always wanted to learn but haven't had a chance to?

Languages.

Any particular one?

I've always wanted to be more fluent in Spanish. I speak a little, but not enough. All right.

What is your word or words to live by?

Persevere.

Persevere. Oh, beautiful. What is the most important quality you look for in other people?

Authenticity. Authenticity.

Now, next one is a little difficult. Name 3 people, 3 people who inspire you, living or dead.

Oh, oh no. I'll do living only because they're top of mind at the moment. Um, Joseph Joubert. Um, oh my, oh my. Shirley Thompson, and we'll say my mother.

Hmm, beautiful. Name one piece in your current playlist.

Okay, um, Mary Lou Williams, A Fungus Among Us.

Okay, oh wow, I need to list that in the playlist. Wow, okay, I will check that out. Now, last question. Fill in the blank. Music is blank.

Music is refreshing.

Oh, that's the first time I hear that. Everybody says different things, but yeah, refreshing. Wow, beautiful. Thank you. So that wraps up this episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song. Thank you, Artina, once again.

Thank you.

Yeah, thank you for joining us and sharing for sharing your stories, insights, and expertise. Once again, to our wonderful audience, you can learn more about Artina and her amazing work through her website at artinamcain.com. Thank you to our wonderful fans or listeners for tuning in today. And if you enjoyed today's episode, please rate, review it on your go-to podcast platform. Please remember to hit the thumbs up button, to subscribe to my channel if you are watching this episode. Follow The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song on social media to get the latest piano news via Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and LinkedIn. I will see you for the next episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song. Bye everyone, and thank you, Artina, once again.

Bye.