Season 5 Episode 7: “Crafting Creative Paths” feat. Rebecca Hass - Composer, Pianist, Creative Coach

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Welcome back to a new episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song. Today I am so excited to introduce our guest, Rebecca Haas, pianist, composer, educator, and creative coach from the San Francisco Bay Area. Now, full disclosure, this episode was recorded the morning after the 2024 US presidential election. What was I thinking, right, to book an interview session the day after the election? As you can imagine, the stress and uncertainty of the previous night lingered, and both Rebecca and I came into this conversation feeling a bit raw. But honestly, that openness made our conversation, made our discussion all the more authentic and meaningful. Let me tell you a bit more about today's guest. Rebecca's work is celebrated for its wit, lyricism, and vibrant joy. Her debut Brazilian album, Florescer, in English, Bloom, has been praised as a delightful 43 minutes of musical sunshine. And her latest release, Bright Little Worlds, is an imaginative collection of 22 original compositions for solo piano and ensemble. It's a beautiful journey through styles ranging from Brazilian to jazz, impressionistic, neoclassical, and beyond. Rebecca's passion for Brazilian rhythms has made her a vibrant part of the Bay Area's Brazilian music scene over the past 5 years. She has performed with groups like the Berkeley Choro Ensemble and appeared as a soloist with the Diablo Symphony and Echo Chamber Orchestra. Showcasing Brazilian and Latin works by living composers. She also regularly performs solo, sharing her own compositions alongside beloved Brazilian classics. In addition to her solo work, Rebecca is a dedicated collaborative pianist and educator. She co-founded the Modern Spark Trio in Minneapolis and performed with the Brazilian percussion group Batercada do Norte. Ever curious and deeply creative, she inspires her students and creative coaching clients to pursue their own path with curiosity and joy. Before we dive into this inspiring conversation, I just want to take a moment to thank all of our incredible fans and listeners. Your support keeps this show going. If you enjoy what you hear today, please take a moment to share this episode on your social media accounts and tag us at The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with more people discover the show. And if you are new here, welcome! I am Yukimi Song, a classical pianist and educator based in New York City. Whether you are pursuing a career in music, working in the classical music industry, or simply passionate about the piano, this show is your backstage pass to the fascinating world of the piano. In each biweekly episode, we connect with extraordinary talents who are shaping the future of classical music. Our mission is to build a community that embraces fresh perspectives, ensuring classical music thrives in today's ever-changing world. Be sure to check out the Season 5 introductory episode to see what's ahead, and don't forget, you can catch up on previous seasons on your favorite podcast platforms or YouTube. So today's episode, we will explore Rebecca's musical inspiration and passion for Brazilian rhythms, her journey from arranger to composer, insights on creative habits and building a sustainable practice, mental health and self-compassion for musicians and creatives, and practical advice for musicians and entrepreneurs. Now let's dive into Rebecca's inspiring journey as a pianist, composer, educator, and entrepreneur. Please enjoy the show. You are listening to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song. You are listening to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song, where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry about how they are bringing the piano into the future and thriving in a complex, ever-evolving world. Welcome to The Piano Pod with Rebecca. It's so wonderful to have you today.

Thank you. I'm thrilled to be here today and talk with you.

Thank you. I know you're joining from San Francisco Bay Area.

Yeah, I'm in Berkeley in the East Bay.

Okay, so must be so early. It's like 8:30 in the morning right now.

Yeah, it's 8:30. I woke up early. It's okay.

Thank you so much for waking up and joining. And, you know, how are you doing this morning?

I'm doing okay.

Yeah. So folks, if you're joining, it is November 6th right now as we are recording this conversation, the day after the 2024 presidential election. It's a time of reflection for all of us, and then perhaps a bit of uncertainty that we process what this result means to all of us. So in times like this, having creative voices like yours, Rebecca, feels really especially valuable. Yeah. And you bring so much depth to the music world, from your love for Brazilian rhythms to your unique approach to creative coaching. And I love your energy to carve out your own career path by wearing so many hats. You're being pianist, composer, creative coach, and advocate. So To start us off, let's say, well, we just met literally just now, right? Yeah, we don't even have to imagine. But let's say we are at the professional conference or something. And after a quick, you know, introduction, I would say, hey, Rebecca, so tell me about yourself. So how would you describe yourself blending everything you do professionally, personally, something unique about you into just a few sentences.

That's always challenging when we wear so many hats. But, uh, I would say I am a pianist, composer, educator, and creative coach. And I am the most passionate about Brazilian music, although I also play jazz and classical music and, you know, have played other styles throughout my life. I'm a lover of variety, and above all, I consider myself a curious person. And I think that's what leads me to continue pursuing a creative career and just to be someone who enjoys life and, you know, is, is always learning. And yeah, this is where the elevator pitch isn't so neat anymore, but I'm dedicated to curiosity and I think that comes through in what I challenge myself to do as well as the the people that I work with. And above all, and I know this is one of your themes for the season, which I love, um, the theme that's really come through for me the most in the last few years is pursuing creative joy. Because I've just realized that that's how we have longevity, both in this profession and just in life. We have to keep pursuing joy and ultimately that's what's going to keep us going and continue to feed us. So absolutely.

Well, well said. Thank you. So let's start by talking about you as a musician and composer. Your work radiates lyricism, wit, and joy, and much of it influenced by Brazilian music. So what is it about Brazilian music and especially rhythms that captivates you? You know, I am originally from Japan.

I'm—

although I'm Korean, I'm now American. But so in Japan growing up, I was listening to Brazilian music a lot because there is like a cultural exchange happening between those two countries, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So Brazil has a huge Japanese population, which happened after World War II when people were fleeing from Europe.

Yeah, yeah.

And Japan.

Now you know. So tell me, where does this passion of Brazilian music come from? Did someone influence you or introduce you to the world of Brazilian music?

You know, not specifically. I grew up doing band. I played flute when I was younger and then percussion when I was a little older in high school. And I always played piano in the jazz bands in middle school and high school. And I don't think I really knew, like, this is Brazilian music and this is a thing that I like. But looking back through the things that I love the most, like as I studied jazz as a kid, and then once I got into college, I realized that I had liked it for a long time, but what the turning point really was when I took this class, I went to Ithaca College in New York and studied music, and there was a class called Latin American Music. It was like a survey class for non-majors. It was like one of those easy elective classes that people took, but I was like, no, this seems really cool. I wanna learn more about this music. And half the class was about like, you mostly Cuban music and Caribbean music, and then half the class was about Brazilian music. And this was before we just had all the downloads to share. So like we actually had to go to the library and listen to the recording cuz it was like, this is the reserve and these are the ones you have to listen to for the class. So I would sit there in the library and I was supposed to listen to like track 1 on this album and track 5 on that one and whatever. And I just found myself wanting to sit there and listen to literally everything on all of the albums. And you know how it is when you get passionate about something, each thing you discover, you're like, oh, I love this musician. Who were they influenced by? Who did they play with? And then this web starts to open up and the rabbit hole just keeps getting deeper. That was a little over 20 years ago and there's still so much to learn. And yeah, I, I plan on continuing to learn about Brazilian music. My whole life.

Wow, that's amazing. My piano teacher in college was Brazilian, so yeah, it's just their— even Portuguese, their version, their pronunciation, everything is just so rhythmical, and then it just fits with the music. I love it.

Yeah. And so, like, I can't really explain exactly what it is I love about it. Sometimes people will be like, how did you, this white girl from Minnesota, end up so into Brazilian music? And I'm like, I don't really know. Like, why do you fall in love with a person? You can kind of explain it, but you can't explain all of the deep feelings that you have. So I don't know, it's something about the rhythm and the groove. It really speaks to me, and it's a powerful feeling.

Yeah, right. Yes, I love passionate people, and then especially those with a deep dedication or fascination for something specific. So tell us about your debut Brazilian album. I can't pronounce this word.

I can. Florescer.

Florescer.

And I am not the best pronouncer of Portuguese either, but Florescer means bloom in Portuguese.

This album was described as a delightful 43 minutes of musical sunshine. Sunshine we need today.

Yeah, we do. Yeah, Brazilian music has that effect for sure. Yeah, so that was my first album, which came out in 2018, and it was a blend of piano arrangements that I wrote of Brazilian, existing Brazilian tunes, and also some originals that I wrote in Brazilian style. So it has a little bit of samba and choro and maracatu, which is a style from Northeast Brazil that people don't know as much about, baião, which is also from Northeast Brazil. So it's a real blend of Brazilian styles, which is great because Americans tend to know about bossa nova and maybe samba, and there's just so much more. They're a huge country, just like you could say, what is American music? You know, there's a lot of different types. It's the same in Brazil. So yeah, that was the culmination of several years of having written these arrangements. And I think as I was sort of dipping my toe into being a composer, arranging felt more comfortable and easy to do than starting from scratch. But then over time, I started to develop my own music and my own voice.

You mentioned about different rhythms.

Can you—

I, yeah, I'm embarrassed to say I only know a few. Brazilian rhythms. So, yeah, if you can describe and explain to us the differences.

And I can probably even find a link to send you for the show notes, too, so people can actually experience them with percussion and stuff like that. But, yeah, so I'll start with choro because that one is the oldest. I always say choro is like the Brazilian equivalent of ragtime because it came about at the same time period. And it's the mixing of African rhythms with European harmonies, to kind of really simplify it. And the difference though, is ragtime is not a living art form anymore. I mean, people play ragtime, but it's, it's been developed into different forms of jazz at this point. And choro is very much still a living art form. And there are choro clubs in Rio and São Paulo and it's, it continues to be innovated. So it, it doesn't sound as much like ragtime now, but there are a lot of those similar rhythms and stylistic elements in there. It's funny because shōrō means cry.

Yeah.

And it's not a particularly melancholy type of music, but sometimes you do find those like minor harmonies, but then with a really fast tempo. And of course, like within any genre, there's fast and slow and different little variations too. So that's choro. And then samba is also a multifaceted thing. Like there are the samba schools that parade in Carnival, and you have many different percussion instruments involved, from bass drums to snare drums to what's called the tamborim, which is not a tambourine with jingles, but it's like a tiny, about this big, small drum with a head on it. And you play it with like a plastic beater and flip it and do all kinds of cool rhythms. So there's that. And then there's samba pagode, which is like a party samba. People just like sit in a circle and sing these songs and play percussion together and string instruments too for the harmonies. And then eventually bossa nova came along in the '60s and that was like apartment samba, some people said, because they couldn't be as loud. So it became this very quiet and understated form of music and had influence from American jazz at the same time too. And then Going to the northeast, the bayao is a different type of rhythm that is more like bum bum bum bum. So it's sort of like half of the clave. The clave is the rhythm that underpins a lot of Latin music, and bayao is accordion and zabumba, which is a bass drum, and triangle. Or foho is another type of variation on that from that region. And then maracatu, which I also mentioned, is a carnival rhythm from Recife, or it looks like Recife when you spell it out. It starts with an R, but the city in northeast Brazil. And that you can really hear the similarity to the African rhythms. It didn't evolve quite as much away from what things were when they left West Africa. So there might be more, you might hear more similarity there. So I just tried to explain all this, and without hearing it, like, I feel it really falls short. But that's just a little bit of info.

Wow, you are really an expert. I never knew of those. And have you been to Brazil?

No, and I need to. It's always the trouble of I wanna spend a lot of time if I'm gonna go. I don't wanna just spend a week there, and I never seem to have more than like a week to go away somewhere. Um, I've learned from a lot of Brazilians who, most of whom come to this camp called California Brazil Camp, which is just a couple hours north of here in the Russian River area in Northern California. And I used to come to that camp from Minnesota. Cause I found out about it from the drum group I was in there. And now I can just hop in the car and get there in 2 hours, which is very, very wonderful. That happens at the end of the summer each year for 2 weeks. And it's just this kind of immersion. You're in a redwood forest studying music and dance. You don't have cell service, so you're really just in it for a week. And it's a really beautiful place and they bring in amazing teachers from Brazil. So I've gotten to study with a lot of great people that way. And the Bay Area has a really great Brazilian music scene, so a lot of artists come through here and, you know, do things in the community here. Yeah. So it's a great place to be if you're a Brazilian music lover.

Sure. Wonderful. And then a couple years later, I mean, pretty recently, you released another album.

I did.

Yes. It's called Bright Little Worlds.

Yes.

Yeah. I've been listening to this album all morning and even yesterday. Thank you. And it's just, it is a really great way to brighten My Own Little World today, especially. Yes, it takes listeners on a journey through 22 original compositions and 21, I believe, piano solos.

Right.

And then another one is the ensemble.

That's right.

Which had a really Brazilian flair to it.

Yes.

Right. Yeah. And each piece has a unique title. For example, like What's Next? Yeah. Good Day to Be Capybara. Oh, that's so cute. I like that piece actually. So cute. A Cold Moon and so on. So Can you share the inspiration and maybe the backstory of this album and introduce us to some of the pieces in the album?

Yeah, like I was saying about the other album, it was the culmination of many years of writing things, you know, as it often is. You don't see all the work, you just see when things happen. But I did these two challenges in 2017 that were 100-day projects of writing music. And The Hundred Day Project is this global art project, and I had heard about it through Instagram. I don't know, sometime before that. And in 2017, I finally decided to do 100 days of composing. So I decided I would do 8 measures of composing each day, and that could be absolutely anything. I just had to sit down and do 8 measures. And there were days when I didn't wanna do much and I was like, I think I'm gonna write in 2/4 with longer notes today, or whatever, you know? And then other times it was more involved, but. It really didn't matter how much I was doing. It was the cumulative effect of continuing. So like some days I would sit down and I would start something new. Other days I'd be like, oh, I like that thing I did yesterday. I'm gonna keep going with that. And I, that would continue for several days. You know, a lot of interesting things came out of just having the discipline to do that. And then I did my own 100 days, not with the Global Art Project later that year, cuz I was like, this is great. I wanna keep up this habit. I found that this is something I can do and enjoy even in the midst of a lot of busyness and actually a lot of burnout that year, which we can talk about later. But, um, so the seeds of a lot of things had happened there. And not just the seeds, like a lot of finished pieces had come out of that. A few of those ended up on my first album, but a lot of them were just kind of leftover and hanging out. And in 2023, I went to see this piano concert. By a friend of mine who just— she's a composer and she wrote a lot of these things, but she's also a really gifted improviser. And so I just watched her do this whole concert of both improvisation and her own compositions, and it was just so imaginative. And something about that just made me go, I need to just release a piano album of all my stuff because it's just sitting around. It needs to see the light of day, you know, and be recorded and I don't want to just sit on all this music that I have written. And so yeah, I began sifting through all the things that I had. The 22 tracks was actually after narrowing things down. Like, there are more things, and some of them I ended up finishing kind of in a little blitz, like not long before the recording session last January, because I was just thinking, you know, this isn't quite what I wanted it to be yet, and I do want to record it, so I'm just gonna make it work and finish it up. So the real challenge with this album was how does it all fit together? There's a huge amount of variety on it, and there were a lot of different voices in my head saying like, this isn't a cohesive album, and you know, you shouldn't do this all together. This should have a theme, it's not marketable, you know, all the things that come up when we start to do a project and those voices want to stop us, but we don't let them, hopefully. Um, and that wasn't the case. The voices weren't stopping me, but it just was sort of a challenge to figure out like, what is this going to be? So I went in just knowing that I was going to record all these things. And the order of it came later. And even many of the titles came later. Sometimes I really don't know what to call a piece. Naming is the hardest part of composing for me. So I actually kind of surveyed some people on the internet about it because I crowdfunded it. So when I was crowdfunding and posting things, I was like, hey, like, does anybody have an idea for this? And some, some of those ideas came. I don't know if I used anyone's literal exact idea, but like that helped brainstorm a little bit. And as you can see, like from the interesting titles, I don't— I try not to take myself too seriously as a composer. I take my work seriously, but I try not to take myself too seriously. Like, it doesn't need to be a serious thing, it just needs to be what it is and like what the work wants to be. And if it wants to be named after a capybara, that's what it is.

Oh, I like capybaras.

Yeah. Well, I thought the rhythm was kind of Brazilian, and they have a lot of capybaras there. And I like how they look. They have a funny facial expression, and they're always sitting in a pool of water. So that's kind of like why that one got named that. I thought it was just capybara chilling in the sun.

Yeah.

But I really enjoyed listening to them, all of them. And then the last one just really is so exciting and, I don't know, makes everybody just feel warm inside.

I'm so glad to hear that. Yeah, the last track is called Patas de Problemas, which means Trouble Paws, and it's named after my cat. I, going back to just kind of like how, how the journey of being a composer has been in the last few years, during the lockdown phase of COVID I was rarely home alone, and I really value alone time for creating. So I felt like it was really difficult to compose for like that year or so after COVID lockdown happened, and once things were returning to normal. I don't know what that means, but like once things opened up and people got vaccinated and people were doing more normal activities, I also had moved to a different place. Um, so that was sort of a turning point in like reclaiming my space and getting to figure out what it was to be a composer and a person in this, this era. And I had decided in 2022 that my word of the year was play. And unfortunately we lost our old cat in February of that year. He was my relaxation mentor. And so I always joke that like I thought I was hiring for that position when we got a new cat, but that was not what happened. We got our, our new guy Suki, who is so playful and curious. And I was like, oh, of course. Like I decided this was my word of the year. He is exactly that. So he inspired that because he's just like— his motto in life is like, I just go for it, I just have fun, I do whatever I want. And sometimes that gets him into a little bit of trouble. So I was trying to channel that spirit there, and I think it worked.

Oh yeah, I loved it. It's just a wonderful way to end the album. Yeah, so congratulations. So thank you. I would like for my listeners to explore and listen to your albums. So where is a good place to go?

Um, they are streaming on all the major services. If you would like to support and buy an album, which is appreciated by all artists these days, you can go to my Bandcamp page, which I'm sure will be listed in the show notes, or you can find it from my website too.

Yes, I will, I will post that on the show notes.

It's in all the places you would expect it to be online.

So, okay. I was listening through YouTube, actually. YouTube also has the audio on.

Yeah, YouTube does.

Yep. I read the story of your unique path to be a composer. You've literally created your own path, I think. And then, so it's impressive, and my lovely listeners can also appreciate and benefit from your story. Can you briefly share your journey to pursue this path? Yeah.

I think I always kind of wanted to write music. Even when I was in high school, I really admired other musicians. And like I said, I did band and, you know, was really passionate about many types of music. But I always was like, I just don't really know how to do this. I didn't have a lot of confidence in my abilities when I was younger. And so I like dipped my toe into it a couple of times. I took one composition class in high school. But it was called Music Theory and Composition. We basically just sat in a computer lab and like either worked on theory lessons or wrote music, and there wasn't a lot of like playing it for other people or discussing it. So it was like, yeah, I got to do it a little bit, but that wasn't particularly influential. And then in college I took another sort of intro to composition class, and again, I, I saw the composition majors and I was like, oh, I could never do that. And I don't know, I, I just hadn't developed the maturity to get that confidence in myself yet. And that's just where I was at, at that point. But I did enjoy it when I did it. And then there were a couple things that I wrote kind of secretly for a while there. I would start little things or write down little snippets of ideas, but I never shared them with anybody for a while. And then the first time I actually shared my music with other musicians, was in 2016, and I was 33 at that point. And, you know, at that point I was like, oh, I'm old to be just starting this, which, like, you're never too old to start anything. And I believe that if you want to do it, you should just do it. And if you are doing it, you get to label yourself that thing. If you compose, you are a composer. But, you know, it's sometimes hard to actually own the label, but That was a real turning point because I went to this composer night called the New Ruckus, which was held in St. Paul at this— it was called Studio Z. Zeitgeist is this new music performing ensemble based in the Twin Cities that is now maybe even 50 years, not with all the original members, but it's, it's been around for at least 40 years. And so, you know, they're a real presence in the scene and their performance space, their old performance space was this hub for composers or just interesting new music things happening. So this was a monthly night hosted by this guy named Paul Cantrell, and he just said, the only requirement is that it is original music. Come share. It can be in progress. It can be a part of something. It doesn't matter what it is, as long as it's original, it's welcome here. So I had played at one of those the previous year with my trio, and the cellist in my trio, Aaron Kerr, is a composer, and he has been a composer for years. And, um, we were playing his work at that. So I was like, maybe I should try to play something. And you know, the best way to make yourself do something is sometimes to create a deadline and say you'll do it publicly. So I signed up for a date for the New Ruckus. And then I was like, okay, I'm doing it. I have to do this now. And I had a section of a Brazilian choro called Ane Lanche, which is the last track on my first album. It was just like the A section of it, or maybe the A and the B, I can't remember, but it wasn't the full piece yet. And then I had this other kind of quirky piece that ended up on the second album. And so I just shared like bits of both of those and it was terrifying and so gratifying. Because I was received so warmly. It was just a few other composers in the room and people who were just like fascinated by music and wanted to hear it. And they had really kind things to say and they were really encouraging. And then Paul, who was hosting it, said to me, you obviously have a lot of trust in your process. And I was like, do I? Like, I didn't realize that. And it was just really affirming to hear someone reflect that back to me. Because I realized that, yeah, I did actually. So that was kind of the beginning of me calling myself a composer publicly. Then I started a blog where I wrote about just creative process stuff and started sharing what I was doing, both when I finished a piece of music and published the sheet music, or just like, here's what I do when I get stuck, or, you know, any, any topics that come up in the journey of being a creative person. And then eventually that developed into the coaching work that I do now. So it's all intertwined.

Wow. So going back to 100 Day Project.

Yeah.

And then so composing 8 measures a day. And so how these projects shape your creative practice, and I'm sure you are using that practice into your coaching as well, but the— what did they teach you about creativity and growth?

They taught me first that you just have to show up. You won't do anything if you don't show up. So like getting my butt on the piano bench was more valuable than I realized because I compose at the piano. Um, because I'm a pianist, you know, it makes sense. Even if I'm not writing for piano, that's always where I start. And it also taught me that quantity leads to quality. That if you are really focused on only writing the very best thing, that you'll probably hold yourself back from trying things. And so knowing that I just had to show up and do something every day taught me that it didn't matter that much. And it did matter, but it, it was freeing to know it didn't matter that much because if I wrote something bad today, I was just going to show up tomorrow and then do something else, and no one ever had to hear about it again, and that was fine. And maybe it was that I would never do anything with it. Maybe it was that it would be a seed of something else. Sometimes I found the same themes coming up in different things that I wrote, and that was kind of cool to kind of tie things together. When I started making that second album, I actually like fused some things together. So yeah, it, it just taught me that you need to show up and do something and that it's all part of your practice and you get to practice more the more that you do it. And the more that leads to writing things that are good. And when I say good, I really wanna define that as good according to me, the person who is writing it, not good according to. Some sort of arbitrary standard, like that's how we should all evaluate our own work. Like, is this good for me, to me? And is this what this piece wants to be? Because sometimes they have a mind of their own about what they want to be, and you want them to be something, and then you're like, this isn't working, and you have to shift courses, and then something clicks after you change your mind from what you thought it was.

So, so, but without actually doing it, you're not going to get there, right?

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. But, you know, when you do creative things or beginning to think about doing creative stuff, it's always the sitting down on the— whether that is the piano bench or the actual chair to sit in front of the computer. That's the hardest part, right?

Because, yeah, starting can be very much the hardest part. So that's where the small bites approach, the 8 measures, was really compelling. Because if I was like, I need to write a whole piece every day, I wouldn't have done it because I would have said to myself, like, I don't have time for that, or I can't do that. So it was really freeing to make it a small amount.

Can we also talk about why you wanted to cultivate your career as a composer? Why is it important, right?

Yeah, you know, I think there are a lot of reasons why, and sometimes I think like a grant writer or something, like about the greater purpose of it. But honestly, the most important why is I just feel like I have to do it to be well, to be okay. And I don't know that I have to compose necessarily, but I do have to make music to feel like myself. And I've witnessed this in other periods of time in my life when I hadn't played the piano for a while, and I just kind of felt like flat. And like, not like hugely depressed, but I just felt like this like more shadowy version of myself that wasn't quite vibrant. So I just know I need to do it, and like, that's, that's number one. And then I do just really love sharing music with other people, and that's a huge part of the reward about it. So yeah, I just want a world in which we can all make stuff and share it with people for others to enjoy. And as we're talking about today, like, we're having big feelings the day after the election. There's a piece of music for that. There are multiple pieces of music for, you know, like the prescription for how you're feeling at any given moment. And it's incredibly helpful for us to process our emotions that way, either by playing if we are musicians or just hearing it. Um, so I think there's just such a big need for music in the world.

Oh, absolutely.

And that sounds like very broad and very general, but I believe it to be true.

Yeah, it is true. Now then, how did you build confidence in your identity as a composer, and especially coming from an orthodox way to become one? Does that make sense? So, you know, we— because we tend to compare ourselves to others, or, oh, I'm not fit in, right? Then especially, especially classical music industry is is about this way or not. Yeah.

So yeah, that's a really good question and I'm not sure I can fully explain it because some of it is just like continuing to be a person and growing in ways that you don't intend to. But I don't know. I mean, I think it does come back to curiosity and letting that and just moving toward the things that light you up be the way that takes you on your path. I really tried to force myself into some paths that were not for me, like many times. And I tried to do that until I felt really burned out and I needed to get a wake-up call that like, no, I wasn't supposed to go to grad school for collaborative piano. Um, no, I wasn't supposed to be a classical performer. And that's fine. Like, I think I had to take some so-called wrong turns in order to figure out what I did really want to be doing. And I don't really consider them wrong turns because I learned from every single thing that I have done. And, you know, any, any study we do, even if I'm not intending to be only a classical performer, there's no regret about any studies that I have done. Like, I've learned technique and so many things from every type of music that I've ever done. But trying to make myself be only that and fit myself only into the path that I saw someone else do. I'm a person who's really good at following directions and like, how do you do it right? And I will follow the path because I'm like, okay, this is how this person did it. That seems right. I'll follow that. Turns out that didn't work for me a few times, and I got tired of that not working. Um, being a piano teacher. I'm still a piano teacher. I've been one for over 20 years now, but I thought that having a huge piano studio was going to be like the way for me to feel fulfilled as a musician. And that wasn't it either. Having more than 30 students as an introvert turns out was a terrible idea for me, but having a smaller studio I really love. So like, I think just learning from what I had done and Also being a recovering perfectionist, I historically have wanted to do things correctly, and it turns out that trying to do things correctly keeps you do— from doing a lot of things. It holds you back because you're afraid of doing it wrong. So I think the more times that I either did something quote unquote wrong or that like didn't work for me. And I learned that it was fine in the end and that I could keep going and that nothing terrible happened. Like each of those experiences gives you more confidence and you just learn that like, I get to figure this out. That's okay. I don't need to have all the answers. I need to just have like the next step in mind, or perhaps more steps, but like just the next step is okay sometimes. So yeah, I think just being open to learning about myself and about what I'm doing is how I develop that confidence in being a composer or anything that I've done.

And then it's still probably a work in progress in that way, right?

It is. It's always going to be a work in progress. And I think accepting that is huge too. So we think we're getting to this endpoint and that we're going to finally be a master of whatever. And just embracing that we're always going to be learning is really freeing.

Yeah, absolutely. Yes. Yeah. And then by thinking that way, you can constantly invest yourself, invest in yourself, and which is hopeful, right?

Yes.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know if you've talked about growth mindset with people on your podcast before, but discovering about that was very influential for me because I think I was more in a fixed mindset of this is how I am and I can't become something else in those times when I didn't have the confidence to be a composer or, you know, whatever it was. And then once I embraced growth mindset more, it was like, well, yeah, we keep growing and I don't know everything and I'm not going to, but that doesn't really matter, right?

Yeah. Before continuing this inspiring conversation with our guest, let's take a moment to hear from our valued sponsor of the month, whose support helps make this podcast possible.

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Let's talk about your coaching business, creative coaching. And, uh, so tell us about your business and, uh, program and what inspired you to start and what did you feel like was missing in the industry or from the people that you met that motivated you to create this, uh, your approach?

Those are really great questions. So I kind of touched on the origin of it before, that blog that I started writing. And I found that through writing about just the struggles that I was coming up against, that I was starting to have more conversations with friends and colleagues about this stuff. And I realized that I was kind of informally helping people with these issues already. And it was just like a very small step to saying like, oh, this is actually something I could offer as a, a formalized service. And maybe it was a little crazy how I did it with the timing because I released my first album in October of 2018 and then I launched the coaching in November. I was like, well, that's done. Let's do something else now. And you know, it led to like a pretty busy season and I maybe should have rested a little longer, but that's okay. It is what it is. Um, and then speaking of rest, that's kind of the other side of your question. I felt that people were not talking about rest enough and about burnout and overwork. And it's just kind of baked into American culture for one thing. And to, on top of that, I'm also Midwestern. I am a descendant of farmers. Um, I grew up learning that you had to have a strong work ethic and the value of hard work was very important. So it was like really baked into my DNA in, in many different ways. And I know that doesn't make me special necessarily, uh, and, and is the case for a lot of people, but I was just noticing that I had pushed myself into burnout many times because I felt like I always needed to be working. And then I started to learn the hard way that that wasn't working and that I, I could not do that. It like really took me down. I had a lot of struggle with anxiety a couple times. Over the last like 15 years or so. And it was bad enough that it really forced me to confront it. And it forced me to confront how I was living my life. Like I didn't exercise until the first time I had really bad anxiety. And I discovered that the best way to deal with it was to walk out the door, walk as fast as I could for as long as I needed to, to feel better and then come back. And so that's like why I have a daily walk to this day, because things were really tough there for a while. So that got me passionate about talking about anxiety more, because I knew it wasn't just me. And I knew that the career of being a musician prized the hustle and, you know, working harder and longer and never taking breaks. And the truth is that we just really can't do that. It doesn't work. It's not sustainable. As much as we get messages that we're supposed to be like that, we're still humans and that's the truth. So, you know, we can deny it, but like our bodies will tell us, it'll catch up to us. And then I also learned about this woman named Mara Glatzel and her work on rest. And I took a class on rest with her, ironically, while I was like launching into some of the worst burnout of my life, cuz I was like, I'm learning about rest. This is great. And I didn't actually put any of it into practice, which is like very typical sometimes that like we think we're doing something by learning about it, but like maybe we should try it too. Again, a learning experience, right? So all of those things kind of were coming together in like 2016, 2017. And yeah. Um, to answer your other question about like what's missing. That, that focus on being a whole person and rest and, you know, managing your energy in a way that lets you be a, a human, not a machine. I felt like that was missing. And I also found when I was looking around at creative coaches on the internet, I found a lot of people who are focused on either visual art or writing, and I didn't see a lot of musicians doing it. So. I felt like I wanted to put my own twist on it, and I didn't limit myself to only working with musicians, even though that's what I focus on now. Like, I still don't— like, if someone approaches me and we seem like a good fit, that's fine. Like, it doesn't have to be musicians, but I found that I was attracting a lot of musicians just because they were— they saw themselves in what I do. And also just being a woman musician, as an example, rather than a man was attractive to some people too. So yeah, I think that answers all the things you asked.

Perfect. Yeah, so I've had coaches before, and, you know, everybody is so different, but, you know, mainly their focus was on branding yourself. And I'm sure you, you coach that as well, but really that is the focus. And the bio— biography, bio writing— and that's important too. And also so many other things like how to approach, um, let's say a venue, like how to promote yourself and sort of thing. Very practical. But yeah, what, what sets you apart besides maybe, you know, you just talked about wellness?

But yeah, so you're right, all of that stuff comes in depending what goals people are trying to do. I find that people who come to me are coming from one of two sides initially. Either they're feeling like they're creatively blocked or they just like really need motivation to do a project that they've been wanting to do forever and they want someone to help them through that. Or they're like, I'm super burned out and I don't really know how to do life right now when I'm so tired, but I really would love to be playing my instrument or writing or whatever it is. And those things are really intertwined, but I find that when people come to me and they say like, this is why I'm here, it comes from one of those two sides. And so I think part of what sets me apart is I'm not just asking them like, what makes you creatively blocked? And not just working through that, but we're looking at like, what is your life like? Do you have things that help you nourish your body? What is your work structure like? How is your relationship with productivity? I really focus a lot on compassionate productivity, like I like to call it. And you know, we might get really into the nitty gritty of like, here's what your schedule should be like. And that doesn't mean we're like time blocking every second of their day, but just saying like, oh, I know I have more energy in the morning. I'm gonna try and do my creative stuff in the morning and make that a habit. And I know that I get tired in the afternoon. I'm gonna stop trying to make myself do this, like heavy mental work in the afternoon. So we kind of look at like the whole landscape of what their work life is like. Or they're like, hey, I have kids and I have a full-time job and I'm trying to do this thing on the side and I'm really frustrated that I can't do it really fast. And then we say like, maybe you can't do it fast right now, but that is okay because this is what fits in your life right now and you're gonna do it in the way that actually works for you. So I think making it actually work for the person as they are, meeting them where they are, is a big part of it.

Sure. Yeah. Now you mentioned about, you know, burnout. So I want to talk about that.

Yeah.

As a fellow creative, I know what it's like to build something from scratch. And, you know, that's something that I think we both have something in common, right? Like, it's so fun to do. So, yeah. Then this creative energy comes with a price. And sometimes it leads to— definitely leads to burnout if you're not careful. And then in the back of my mind, I sometimes hear, don't be lazy, even though I'm working really hard. But I hear this voice a lot. And then I have to get this done.

I want to make—

and then also you have the desire, I want to make this better. I want to make— right? So how can we pace ourselves and avoid burnout. And I know when exactly I have a burnout. It's like the next day I have no— I have so many things to do, but I just can't do it. And my— I have a mental block, and, and my body is tired, but I'm pushing myself, right?

Yeah, I have so much to say about that. Yeah, so, well, and you just said something interesting that you hear the voice about being lazy, and like, that's part of it. And then you're saying the creative energy can tire you out, and the creative energy can be what fuels you too. I think it's really important to look at all the different parts of a project. Like, maybe for— well, I'll just use myself as an example. I have gone through periods of time, even somewhat recently, where I felt really, really busy past my capacity. And it's something that I do willingly for a season or, you know, a short time because there's a project that I really wanna do and I get to play in this one concert with these people that I really wanna play with. And that feels really fueling. And I've noticed that even if I'm super busy, that I feel very enlivened and I don't care that I'm that busy if I have that thing that's giving me like the creative juice. But if I don't have that thing, I could be less busy and feel more burned out because I don't have the thing that's giving me that passion or like keeping the passion lit up. So there's like, there's all the different parts of a creative project. Like maybe you feel really drained by podcast editing and like that's what makes you feel burned out. And you know, another, a different part of the project, like deciding who the guests are, that makes you feel really lit up. And so maybe you focus more on that. And so like knowing what parts give you energy and what parts don't, and just like having that knowledge is really important. And you asked multiple questions. No, give you a backup. Yeah.

I mean, so, so, so many questions. So, you know, how can we pace ourselves and, uh, oh yes.

Mm-hmm. Yes. So you were just saying too that you wake up one day and you feel like you just can't do anything cuz you're feeling burned out. Great. You know, that is a sign and you can say, I'm there, I'm gonna do something about it now. So noticing I think is step one. And then, so like we talk a lot about red flags, right? I like also like to talk about the pink flags that are like those little signs that are kind of more subtle. And getting to know yourself better, you will start to notice some of those things. Like one of my pink flags is like, I just feel kind of crabby and just irritable for, you know, maybe no reason or there's a reason, but like more, more so than usual. And, you know, maybe just not having as much enjoyment in something. So if you can pinpoint like, this is the stuff that happens before it gets really bad, that's really great because then you can say, all right. Now I'm gonna add another night of rest this week, or what can I delete from my schedule right now? Even if it's a one-time thing, even if it's like a party that you really wanna go to, to see this one person, sometimes it's a hard choice, but sometimes you have to pick the thing that, that is able to not be on your schedule. Isn't a work thing, you know, it's not always easy to make those decisions, but I think knowing yourself. Is the biggest thing. I have started this practice. I've been doing this for years, like a weekly check-in. So I write it right on my schedule and I just write like, what worked this week? What didn't work? What did I learn? And what I want for next week. It takes me like 10 minutes or less, and that has been incredibly helpful in noticing like, how did last week go? And if I'm like, wow, I felt really tired, I try to think about why. And then I can bring that into the future knowledge of how I treat myself and how I build my schedule and, and what I do. And then going back to what I said about the, the different parts of a creative project, even in just kind of a bigger level, knowing things that deplete your energy and things that really replenish your energy. Like if you're an extrovert and you're spending all your time at home, you might not be happy and you might need a little bit more of that. Like maybe even though you work from home, you have a coffee date with a friend to work and that makes you feel more lively. So just knowing that rest doesn't have to mean lying down. Rest can be anything that replenishes your energy, and that might be exercise, which seems counterintuitive, but I just kind of define it as anything that makes you feel more energized, even in a quiet energy sort of way. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sorry. Nourishment to your body. Yeah.

Nourishment. Exactly. Yeah. Your body, your mind, any, any area.

Yeah. So I think you're talking about self-compassion here, right?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Oh, that's a big thing. How— why can we not love ourselves? It's such a struggle. And I'm, you know, learning finally to do that. And then like whenever I'm so tired and then burning out, and then I hear this voice, negative voice, and say Hey, Yukimi, calm down. Yeah, just love yourself and just take it easy. But that's so hard to do.

It is. Well, I think that's amazing that you've found that voice and been able to cultivate that, even if it can't happen all the time. Just the fact that it ever happens is amazing.

Yeah, it's a struggle, really. Like, you know, evil versus this angel, like, fighting together.

That's okay. I think that's very human. And I think another side of it, well, there's cultural things, of course, that lead us to be hard on ourselves, but also our brains are always trying to protect us. And part of that is being self-critical because we think if we criticize ourselves, it's not even conscious, but like if your brain is watching out for that threat and it criticizes you so you don't do the thing that seems a little bit scary, that's protection in a way, right? But you can override that because like, you know that you're not actually gonna get eaten by a tiger. It's not that kind of risk. It's just something that feels kind of uncomfortable. And then something that was introduced to me also is that sense of belonging in a community. In olden times, you needed to be part of your community to survive because if you were cast out of the community, you wouldn't have food, you wouldn't have shelter. Um, so these, these primal feelings are still inside us. And so we feel that if we don't do all the things we need to belong, that that's a huge threat. So a lot of self-compassion stuff is tied up with that sometimes, and it's a little murky and we don't realize it. But like we were saying before, practice. It's all about practice. Like, uh, self-compassion can be tied up with meditation too, and I've heard Pema Chödrön, the great Buddhist nun who's written some great books. I've heard her say that she's bad at meditation, that she spent an entire silent meditation retreat stewing about how this person next to her definitely hated her. Or like something that sounds totally ridiculous. And you're like, she has dedicated her whole life to this. But that's just the point. We don't have to be good at it. We just have to keep practicing it and we're never going to be perfect at it. And like, that is also the practice.

So that's the beauty of practice, right? Yeah.

And like we were saying about composing, you got to keep showing up. You just have to keep trying. And if anyone is new to the practice of self-compassion, I'll share one of my very favorite resources, which is Dr. Kristin Neff. She is one of the foremost researchers of self-compassion, and she wrote kind of the book on it too. But her website has a bunch of free meditations. They range from like 5 minutes to, I think, a little over 30, maybe 30 or 40 minutes. They're in the app Insight Timer, which I use. They may be in other places, but they're definitely free on her website, which I think is self-compassion.org. Check that out later to be sure. But, um, yeah, I, I didn't think that I was the kind of person who wanted to listen to self-compassion meditations. I was like, if I'm going to meditate, it's going to be silent. It's cheesy to hear this person's voice in my ear. And I, I wasn't into it. But in 2017, which was the second time I had really bad anxiety, I just had this deep desire to hear someone tell me it was going to be okay. And so I was looking for self-compassion meditations and I stumbled upon hers and it was just the best thing I could ever imagine at that moment to have someone's voice in my ear being like, you're okay. It's really hard right now. That's okay. And so to hear someone else's voice say those things was a really powerful thing for me just to hear that modeled. So if anyone is thinking that, like, I don't know how to do that voice in my head. It's okay to look outside first. Look for examples, or think about how you would tell your friend or your child or anyone you love, you know, how you would respond to them about the thing that you're struggling with. And that might help you practice a kind voice too.

Yeah, anxiety is something— performance anxiety is one thing, but another kind of anxiety would be. I don't know. I've had the anxiety a couple weeks ago too. It just came to me. I think when you do creative work, you're always in self-doubt mode.

And that can happen.

Yep. And like you mentioned that you're— we're all being perfectionists, and especially, you know, being a pianist, that's kind of like a comes with the territory, being a perfectionist. Does that make sense?

I think so, especially in the classical context where you're supposed to play it right. Right. You're not supposed to play wrong notes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That mindset. And then, so, uh, yeah, that, that causes— I think it's the habitual thinking that piles up and then you end up having this anxiety and—

yeah, yeah.

But you seem like that's your one of the, um, I don't want to say sales pitch, but you as a coach want to help other people, right?

Yeah, it's one of the things I focus on for sure.

Tell me about this, uh, Fuel Your Creative Work. This is a workbook. Yeah, yeah.

So I wrote this Fuel Your Work with Compassionate Productivity workbook in 2020 when You know, we were all at home more and didn't quite know what to do. Well, maybe not all of us were at home. I don't want to assume that, but many of us were, and especially many of us who are musicians and our outward performing work couldn't happen at that moment. So I was just really leaning into the coaching side of my work, because that's something that could hand— happen online. And. This idea of compassionate productivity came about, I think, because we were forced to slow down. And I was noticing that the first few weeks of the lockdown, I didn't really put any pressure on myself. I was like, we're in an unprecedented time, as everyone was saying, you know, I'm not going to make myself do a lot of work. You know, I'm going to, I'm going to let myself like, kind of feel out the time and have the grace to just figure things out. But after a few weeks I was like, well, this isn't really working for me. Like I need a schedule of some kind. I need a structure because that's how I work the best. I think a lot of people are that way. And I was thinking, okay, I wanna be more disciplined about my time, but I knew that I'd had experience with time blocking every inch of my day and then getting angry with myself because I was 5 minutes behind on the schedule and then being like, well, I gotta eat lunch faster because I gotta practice at 1:00 PM and then my students are coming at 2:00 and whatever. So like I was practicing the mean boss version of the time blocking and I was like, I wonder if I can do this in a way that's more compassionate and that is more flexible and that takes your energy into account and allows you to rest when you need to. And so that idea and making it into more of a concrete thing that other people could practice is how that book came about. So in there, there's some strategies for just looking at what your life is like in terms of the structure of your schedule, what kind of time you have, when, when you have energy to do certain things, looking at your history with productivity, because most of us have a lot of baggage with productivity. And we need to kind of think through like, oh, maybe this assumption I had is not something I need. Maybe it's not actually serving me anymore. So it kind of lets you reflect and also gives you some templates and formats for making a structured schedule with flexibility.

If I want to purchase that, where should I go? Is it rebeccahoss.com or there's another website?

Yeah, well, I have my coaching website is coachingforcreativewellness.com at this moment, but I'm actually working on putting it back into rebeccahoss.com. But if you go to rebeccahoss.com, the landing page says I'm here for, and there's a button for music or coaching.

Okay.

So you will find it if you head to rebeccahoss.com for sure. Mm-hmm. Um, and it's just in the little offerings menu. You'll see, um, Compassionate Productivity Workbook there.

So far we focus on a little bit more mental side or wholesomeness of your approach to coaching, but maybe we can talk about a little bit more practical sense. Then here and there I hear this, I heard you are being introverted, and then so, and then I mean so many of us are actually in this music industry, but You know, when I talk to people through this podcast, I also realize there are so many extroverted people too. Yeah, I thought we were a bunch of introverts, but it's not.

There's a whole spectrum.

Yeah, definitely. Now then, but I think no matter where you are on the spectrum, uh, building community is something that is part of this whole deal, no? Yeah, but power of community and collaboration is something that I wish I was able to cultivate more in college. Nobody told me.

Me too. Yeah.

So tell us more about this. How can people embrace their individual approach to build meaningful connections? It doesn't have to be, you know, I'm more of an introverted as well, so I just don't want to go out and meet new people all the time. That's very exhausting because I'm constantly thinking how this person feels, and it's just a lot of stimulations. So how can I do this my own way?

Yeah, I have lots of thoughts. Are you also a highly sensitive person?

I think so. Yes, me too.

So that combo, it, it can be very draining. That's, that's for sure. And I also just wanna say about being an introvert, just in case people think that introverts are like unfriendly or antisocial people, that's not what it is. It's that we get drained from social interaction. I'm a very friendly introvert. And I just wanna set the record straight that it's about where you get your energy, not whether you like people or not.

Okay.

Just in case anyone has ideas about that. So I think one thing about being an introvert and building community that is great about living in this day and age is we can do a lot of things online. And I find it much less draining to send someone like a DM on Instagram than I would to call a person or see them in real life. So maybe it's that you're just, you find someone like I, if I saw your podcast on Instagram, that you're just like, hey, I like that episode. That's cool. And you can just do this tiny little statement to somebody and see what grows from there. It doesn't have to be necessarily in person and it can look like you want it to. I think that was one of the great lessons of the COVID lockdown era is that we, we did learn to build community online in a different way. And then maybe we went away from that because that was all we were able to do for a while. But I, I still think it's very valuable. Something that was a huge, uh, realization for me is I thought networking was gross and I didn't like the idea of it. It just gave me this like schmoozy vibe when I thought about going to networking events. Mm-hmm. And I, I didn't. Want to be this like fake schmoozy person. So as soon as I realized that networking could mean just being my authentic self and being curious about somebody else and like wanting to talk to cool people about what they do, changed everything for me. So I find that really energizing actually to have conversations with people, like say at a more creative-based networking event. I think I was thinking about like business events where I didn't have anything in common with anybody and. And you know, that, that's not appealing and that's not the kind of networking events that anyone has to go to if they don't want to. But, um, yeah, I think getting curious about what other people are doing. I know this word curiosity keeps coming up again and again, but it's so essential in everything. Um, so I would, I would say building community in whatever way you feel like you have the capacity to. Is okay, and maybe you're gonna do it a little more slowly than someone who is out and about and doing all the things. But I would also say that oftentimes I have a really hard time getting out of the house to say, go to that show of that person that I kind of know in my community. And I pretty much never regret actually making myself go, even when I'm tired and I feel like social interaction is a lot and yeah, just, just kind of like being a presence somewhere. I don't think you even have to be like all that talkative, just being like, hey, I came to your show and I really enjoyed it. That's something. That's you being there in this, this like quiet, warm way. So I think that we can build community in a lot of different ways and also just knowing what your capacity is for people time. So like sometimes I really don't feel like performing, I don't feel like talking, and I have to shift into a different frame of mind to put myself in that place. And I have to know that I'll feel drained afterwards and that I need that rest period afterwards. So I actually like mark it on my calendar, cat and couch day, like literally put that as an all-day appointment in the calendar. Or a partial day if I can't do a full day. If I know there's some kind of performance where I'll be really drained, you know, you can plan for that and, and just know that maybe my capacity is a little bit limited and maybe I went past it at this moment, but that's okay because I really wanted to do this show and it was really exciting and fun for me to meet people and share music. So yeah.

Wonderful. Yeah. This is one of my way of networking too.

Yes.

Right. Yeah. This works for me.

And yeah, I loved having a podcast for that reason too.

Uh-huh. Oh, you, you do have podcast.

I stopped it about a year and a half ago. It's still up. It's called Being a Whole Person and it's about the creative, creative experience, being a creative person, how to take care of yourself, have self-compassion, all these things we're talking about today. And it was partially interview and partially solo episodes. So yeah, archives are up. Please check that out if you want to. But I totally agree, it was like, I want to interview this person because I want to talk to them and it's really fun.

Yeah, and it gets quite personal. It's amazing how—

right? Yeah, that's a really good point actually. I think that's something about being an introvert and a highly sensitive person is that I want to go deep like immediately. And that at the party, people are like mingling and going to the next person. I'm like, no, I actually want to talk to you for a half hour because we're getting into it. And not everyone is there for that.

Sure.

So I find that sometimes I'm like a mismatch with the party atmosphere because of that. So yeah, I, I totally agree with you that getting to have a real authentic deep conversation is super rewarding and less draining for me than it would be to just like flit about and be like, what do you do? To 5 different people.

Yeah. And then talk about sports or whatever.

I, I, I, I have nothing to say about sports. Same here. But yeah, exactly. Like whatever. The news.

Football still doesn't make sense to me. Me neither.

It's okay. We have music.

Yeah. So you mentioned crowdfunding when you did produce your albums. I want to talk about that because that's also part of the community building and you've successfully crowdfunded two albums on Kickstarter. And what are your top tips for musicians? Considering crowdfunding. And I, I'm, I'm personally curious.

I'll first say that I worked with an excellent Kickstarter consultant. His name is Laser Weber. He's amazing. And I was introduced by a friend who had just crowdfunded before I did my first album. And I was very happy that that serendipitously worked out. Um, and he helped me through the whole process the first time. And then the second time I just felt like I needed like one sort of planning call to figure things out, and I kind of knew what to do. So shout out to Laser, highly recommend his help if you need that. Um, I would say the top tip that I have is don't be afraid to bug people.

Hmm.

Or you can be afraid to bug people, but do it anyway, I guess. Just know that you're gonna feel like you're bugging people. And that you're incessantly talking about this and that you're being the worst, most annoying person, but people don't see at least half of what you post, so they're not annoyed by it. And if they are seeing more of it, they're the people who are like already interacting with your stuff more and they like you a lot and they're happy to see your stuff. And that if they're not happy to see it, they're welcome to unfollow you or Scroll on by, you know, and you're doing your thing because it's important to you and you want to share it with people and being really clear in why you're doing it. That will really help you get through what is a difficult process. And then the other thing that I didn't know until I started crowdfunding and launching things is be prepared for the middle of the campaign to be really quiet. There's gonna be a surge at the beginning and a surge at the end for the last minute folks, but the middle's gonna be quiet and you're gonna think that everything is going terribly because nothing is happening at that moment. But it's like the life cycle of the thing. Hmm.

Interesting.

You have to take heart that it's not over just because there's a lull in the middle and like maybe you do need to do other things to get more support, but like there is a natural curve to it and that all is not lost if it's kind of quiet in the middle.

So speaking of all these skills, like, you know, basically schools don't teach you these things, right? From community building, crowdfunding, and essential business skills.

I learned nothing in school about business skills. Nothing. Yeah.

So how did you prepare yourself in such a self-driven career?

I think I just had to learn as I went because I learned that, okay, I wanna fund this album, I need to do something to fund it. And okay, I'll learn how to do this. I like learning how to do new things. I think that's part of it. I really enjoy the process of learning. So like learning a new software platform to, I don't know, like figure out how to do this one thing on my website or whatever. I like that kind of thing. So I think that's part of it. And I also am a big researcher. I just really like researching and seeking out information. So I think my personality suits myself to this a lot. I, I've had friends say that they always like come away with at least one resource when we hang out. Cause I'll be like, oh, did you know about this podcast? Did you know about this one thing? Cause I'm just excited to share information. But yeah, I, I sometimes I'm like, I don't know how to answer that because I was in school from 2001 to 2005 and I didn't know anything about marketing and I didn't learn anything about marketing. But if I had, none of that would be, maybe not none of that, but a lot of it would not apply anymore cuz none of these social media platforms, like things have changed so much in the world of the online world and marketing. Since then that I would've had to learn more even if I had learned things about business and marketing in school. But yeah, keep learning, I guess, is, is it. And, and see if you can get help with the things that you find draining. Like if social media marketing is draining and that's something that's important for your business, like see if you can get help with it somehow. Or simplify it.

So, uh, you emphasize the importance of following an authentic path, and what advice would you give to emerging musicians about building unique joyful careers without burnout?

I think it all comes back to having quiet time, and that could be in terms of actual rest, but it could just be in terms of mental space. Like, you need to have some time to reflect, to, to know yourself and to know what you want. And if you're so busy that you never have that time, it's really hard to know even how you feel about anything that you're doing or to have new ideas. I really find that when I take the time to rest more than I thought was necessary, that when I come back, I'm just like flooding with ideas and that my brain starts to feel like a waterfall and I wanna capture all of it. But if I don't let myself get to that rested enough point, that it's just a trickle and I have to catch the drops where I can. And it's not a science, like the sci— the science of ideas coming out, you know, we can't totally predict all of that. But I would say having that space to reflect on what you want and what you think is important, and just what you're curious about and what you want to do, is the most important. Like, even if that's taking a walk every morning without listening to a podcast and just having the space to think. Doesn't have to be a lot of time, just a little bit.

Then now, every artist explores their sense of purpose at some point after having this years, more than 10 years of strict and intense training for classical musicians especially. And, but how did you find yours and what advice would you offer for musicians seeking clarity in their mission, which is very important?

Yeah, I think asking yourself good questions. Rather than expecting yourself to have all the answers. There's that quote from the poet Rilke that's like, one day you will live your way into the answer. Like, ask, live the questions now. One day you'll live your way into the answer. And I think that's so true for younger people as well as older people. Like, we're always going to be pondering these deep philosophical things and our sense of purpose in our career, and it's going to evolve. And I think that's something that we have to contend with as well. Like, you might have a turning point where you're like, wow, the thing that fueled me for the last 10 years is not anymore, and I need to shift. And, and that's fine too. It doesn't mean something's wrong. Yeah, I think just staying connected with your purpose and having that quiet time I was just talking about to reflect also helps you stay connected to why you're doing what you're doing.

Yeah, but some, for some people, self-reflection is the, like, the hardest thing for, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Because you just have, you really have to be in touch with yourself.

Yeah.

True to yourself, which is a very courageous thing to do.

It is, especially when we expect ourselves to have the answers and we feel that we're failing if we don't have the answers. So I guess that's part of the practice too, is just embracing that, like, you might not have the answers, and where can you get curious about what the answers might be instead of being like, I am required to figure this out today, next week, or whenever, or try to match with some sort of expectations.

Yeah. And that you really want to be that, but you're not.

You're not. Yeah, you're you.

Yeah, that takes also courage and sometimes maybe help from other people, like community and life experience. Right. Yeah.

We're not fully formed when we graduate from college.

Not at all.

Or ever, probably. So that's fine. Yeah. Just commit to rediscovering who you are, I guess.

So now looking ahead, what's next for you in your career? Where do you envision yourself in maybe in the next 5 years? Another album maybe, or?

Definitely. Yeah. I'm always a person who is really good at planning for like a year or two ahead, and it's difficult for me to plan further than that, especially given what the world has dealt us the last several years. But yeah, I mean, I know I'm going to keep creating and composing and that my whole life will contain that. I would really like to do another album where I have a band and play more like Brazilian jazz type stuff. So I think that will be in the future. I don't have any concrete plans for that yet because I'm just like, okay, no new projects in 2024, like after, after the one album because I crowdfunded it last fall, actually this time of year. So I started that planning in like September of 2023, and then, you know, released it in May, did another album release in Minnesota in August. So it was like a full year of being really busy with that project. So I'm in kind of a rest phase and a dreaming into the next thing phase right now more than I am, uh, like, here's what's next phase. But one thing, actually two things that I'm really excited about. One, I have a piece called Waving at Copeland on my newest album, and I'm going to orchestrate it, and it's going to be played by the awesome orchestra here in the Bay Area. This is the Bay Area's Adventure Seeking Orchestra, they call it, and they do these open rehearsals every month where they just play through stuff, and they love to do works by living composers and local composers who can be in the room. So that's really cool. I'm gonna do that. I'm not sure when, but sometime in 2025. And I've never orchestrated a full, full orchestration before, so that's going to be a fun new—

wow—

challenge. Yeah. And the other thing I'm really excited about is I'm forming a women's composer collective with a couple friends of mine, and it's starting here in the Bay Area, but we hope that it will be much bigger eventually. It's just kind of in the starting phases, but I'm super excited about that because anytime I can promote women composers who can be in the room with you, who are alive right now doing the work, like, I'm really excited about that. So yeah, yeah.

And just curious, is any of your work available like as a score online?

Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's another project actually. I should mention that. Okay, I need to publish all the music. I did it as one of the rewards for the Kickstarter for this latest album, but I know that maybe needs a teeny bit more editing before I can totally publish it. But I am going to publish all the sheet music, and I do have some sheet music from— actually, there's a couple of pieces that are on that album because I was publishing a piece per month when I was doing the 100 Day Project and after that. So yeah, there are several things in my website store now. But I have plans in the near future to publish all of the things from this new album. Yeah.

Wow.

I've had people ask me about it, so I'm like, okay, good, keep bugging me. I need to do that. Yeah.

Isn't our guest so inspiring? I'm sure you're enjoying and learning from every bit of this episode, so I need to ask you two things. First, hit that like button on YouTube or subscribe if you are listening on your go-to podcast platform. Then follow us on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and TikTok @thepianopod with behind-the-scenes content, episode updates, and more. Stay connected and inspired to celebrate the past, present, and future of classical music. So now it's time to really promote your work, and if from your CD, I mean albums, to your coaching. Even you listed like creating coaching services, newsletter, free good creativity and challenge and other stuff. So the floor is yours. Take it away. Okay, great.

I do too many things. But yeah, so as we talked about, you can listen to my albums or buy them on my website. Um, and you said CD, I do have a few CDs if someone is listening and they want a CD. I have a lot of copies of my first album, but I didn't make as many of the second, which is good. Um, yeah, so that's the music. Um, I also play Brazilian music here in the Bay Area and I play for weddings and events. So if anyone is in the Bay Area and they need a pianist for something, I'm here. Uh, and then on the coaching and creativity side, yes, I do one-on-one creative coaching. Either with one-time sessions or as more of a whole season of work together. Either one could be appropriate depending on what your goals are. And if anyone has questions about that, you can either book a call to talk about it or send me a message, or I'm happy to answer any questions. And I am not one of those people who does a hard sales pitch on the discovery call. It is, as you could probably tell from the vibe of this conversation, it's just to like see if we're a good fit. So I, I love just meeting people by having those conversations too, even if we don't end up working together. So feel free to reach out if you're interested in coaching. And then yes, I write a newsletter about creative, creative issues, creative stuff, how to take care of yourself as a creative person. And you can sign up for that and you can also get this It's called the Feel Good Creativity Unchallenge, which I created during 2020 when we all needed just like a little bit of levity and fun. And I was hearing a lot of musicians at that time say like, I better create my best work. I have all the time in the world. And they were just making it a huge pressure opportunity. I'm like, yeah, but you're also like enduring a global crisis. I think that that's kind of taking up some mental energy. It's okay. So I got really focused on just creating for fun and the bite-size creating obviously has been successful for me and that was really helpful for a lot of people. So that's like a 5-day series of emails where you get a prompt each day that is about the creative side and about the wellness side. And that's on my website and I'm sure you will link to that too.

Great. So for our listeners, please go to RebeccaHaas.com to learn more about Rebecca's Music updates and also her coaching programs as well.

Yeah.

All right. So this has been such a fun and inspirational conversation. Rebecca, I appreciate you for really, once again, for being here and I'm enjoying every bit of conversation today. So, but before I let you go, we have one more thing to do, which is The Piano Pod rapid fire questions where I ask fun questions to each guest and then I just want you to answer them as with the shortest responses as possible. No, no explanation is necessary. Okay, all right. So level 1, what is your comfort food right now?

I think it's chocolate.

Okay. How do you like your coffee in the morning?

I do not drink coffee because I can't handle caffeine. Oh, so yeah, no. Okay, green tea sometimes. Great.

Cats or dogs?

Cats, but I like both.

Sunrise or sunset?

Uh, sunset, I guess I see more often, although I'm a morning person.

Summer or winter?

Now that I live in the Bay Area, winter. In Minnesota, I would have said summer, or actually spring or fall.

Yeah, I know, I know.

Everybody—

all right, what skill have you always wanted to learn but haven't had a chance to?

Probably playing a string instrument.

Yeah. What is your word or words to live by?

That's a hard rapid one, but, um, be curious, love yourself and others.

Great. Now, what is the most important quality you look for in other people?

Kindness.

Name 3 people who inspire you, living or dead?

Um, only 3.

Oh my goodness, just whoever pops in your head.

Okay, Bobby McFerrin, uh, Mara Glatzel, who I mentioned earlier, and Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

Ah, good one. Yes, we miss her. Name one piece in your current playlist? Oh, I'm so curious.

I'll, I'll list one that I'm listening to and playing. It's called Marble Maze by Carrie Pollitzer. She's an awesome pianist in Portland, jazz pianist, who I just met when she did a show here. And I was like, that, that Brazilian choro you wrote was awesome. And she's like, oh, I'll give you the chart, let me go get it for you. So I've been really enjoying playing that one myself and also listening to her play it.

Wow, I need to listen to that. Well, thank you for introducing me. Okay. Great. Now last question, fill in the blank: music is blank.

Life.

Wonderful. Yay! So that wraps up this episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Rebecca Haas. Thank you, Rebecca, for joining today and then sharing your stories, insights, and expertise. Once again, to our wonderful audience, you can learn more about Rebecca and her amazing work through her website at rebeccahaas.com. And thank you to our faithful fans and listeners for tuning in. If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate, review it on your go-to podcast platform, and please remember to hit that thumbs up button and subscribe to The Piano Pod's YouTube channel. Follow The Piano Pod on social media to get the latest piano news. I will see you for the next episode of The Piano Pod. Thank you once again, Rebecca.

Thank you for having me. It was so wonderful.

Oh, thank you. Bye, everyone.