Season 5 Episode 9: "Redefining Classical Music" Clare Longendyke - Pianist & Recording Artist

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Welcome back to a brand new episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song. We are thrilled to kick off 2025 with our first full episode of the year. We hope you enjoyed a little surprise gift from us last week, a bonus episode featuring the winner of the Cantuta Opus 2 Scholarship by the Foundation for Bolivian Artists, José Navarro Silverstein. Be sure to check it out. Today we are diving into an extraordinary conversation with a truly inspiring artist. Claire Longendijk. Claire is a concert pianist and recording artist celebrated for her artistic ferocity and innovation, with a career that spans solo, chamber, and orchestral performances across the globe. In this episode, we'll hear about Claire's whirlwind 2024 fall season, featuring an astonishing 25 concerts across 10 cities in just 9 weeks. Claire shares how she balanced 20 solo performances, chamber collaborations, and orchestra appearances, all while connecting deeply with audiences along the way. We'll also discuss her groundbreaking debut album, "Of Dreams Unveiled," which debuted at number 2 on the Billboard Classical charts. This remarkable project weaves together works by Claude Debussy, Amy Williams, and Anthony R. Green, showcasing Claire's commitment to both the classical tradition and the music of our time. Claire opens up about forging a full-time performance career, commissioning over 30 new works, and performing in 250 world premieres, all while championing inclusivity and innovation in classical music. Her insights on building meaningful connections with audiences Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song] Embracing vulnerability as a superpower and redefining what it means to be a concert artist in the 21st century are truly inspiring. Looking ahead, we have more exciting guests lined up in 2025, and The Piano Pod isn't stopping here. We are also planning some exhilarating events beyond podcasts and broadcasts in the fall. To stay in the loop about our upcoming guests and plans, Be sure to subscribe to our newsletter and follow our Instagram broadcast channel @thepianopod. All the links mentioned today are listed in the show notes or description, and you can also find them on our Linktree account @thepianopod. Now, without further ado, let's dive into this inspiring episode featuring the extraordinary Claire Langendijk. Please enjoy the show. You are listening to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song, where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry about how they are bringing the piano into the future and thriving in a complex, ever-evolving world. Welcome to The Piano Pod, Claire. It's such a pleasure and honor to have you on the show. Where are you joining from today?

First of all, thank you, Yukimi. I'm so excited. I've been looking forward to this. I am currently in Fishers, Indiana, which is a suburb just outside of the Indianapolis loop. So I'm in Indianapolis, basically.

Wow. And I love your place. It's just— I love all the colors.

This is my favorite room, actually. I've got a piece of artwork that really inspires me, a plant that I've almost killed but haven't quite killed, and then my Steinway B back in that corner there.

Oh, you have a Steinway B. That's awesome. Beautiful.

Yes, my pride and joy.

Yes. So for those tuning in to this episode sometime in 2025, this recording session is taking place on December 12th, 2024, and Claire has just wrapped up an absolutely whirlwind fall season. So Claire, you mentioned you performed 25 concerts in the last 9 weeks. Good grief. And including 20 solo performances in 7 states and chamber and orchestra. So, well, first of all, congratulations, and that's an incredibly busy yet wonderful schedule. And then can you tell us more about these concerts and how you managed such a demanding season?

Sure. Well, let's start with the two. Let's separate those two because managing is sometimes different than accomplishing, right? So I've been a full-time concert pianist now since 2021, March 2021. So it's been a couple of years and it's all I do. I mean, I teach this much, a very, very, very little bit. For those just listening, I'm just holding up my fingers, a very little amount. And so all of my work is dedicated towards building, managing, learning repertoire, that sort of thing. And I do have help in doing it. I work with an artist representative who's able to help me, but the most challenging part is knowing what is enough and when it's too much. Truly, I do not know how— that is a skill set that I have not yet acquired, figuring out when to stop. And so because I have— so I had a solo program that I was so excited about. I just— fall solo was surrounded with surrounding Beethoven 109, Beethoven Opus 109, the third to last Beethoven sonata, which is a piece that I've been playing since 2009. And I love revisiting old pieces, truly. Not old in that they were written hundreds of years ago necessarily, though sometimes, but old in the sense that it's a piece that has grown with me. In fact, I like to tell audiences that I'm very glad I didn't listen to the teachers that told me that I was too young to start learning that piece because where would I have been if I'd just been starting this piece now at the age of 37? You know, and so I have this history with that piece. So very exciting. But the reason I chose to bring back that specific Beethoven sonata is that truly the crux of my solo repertoire this season and the last half of last season as well is this 30-minute variation set by Amy Beach called Variations on Balkan Themes, which is a relatively unknown work of music. Even amongst pianists that know a whole heck of a lot, it is not played, probably because it is an extremely complex and challenging piece of music. And I wanted to make sure that when I— so I learned it a year ago, performed it for the first time in January on a big concert that I had locally in Carmel, Indiana at the Palladium.

Yeah, I watched the video actually.

Ah, yes, exactly.

Beautiful.

Thank you. That was a terrifying performance. The first time playing that piece, I was just— and it was all my friends in the audience. I had no reason to be scared, but here I was. I was terrified because this piece is so monstrous in all the best ways. And I said, you know, it took me the best part of 6 months to learn, memorize, perfect this piece. I have to keep playing it, and I'm planning to record it, although I don't quite know when. So anyways. I kept just adding concerts in, you know. Well, I'm gonna be here, so I might as well— while I'm in Milwaukee on this mainstage concert series, I might as well go into 2 high schools and do clinics and play the program there, and then I might as well play on Wisconsin Public Radio, and then all of a sudden I'm playing 5 concerts in 3 days when I'm in Milwaukee. And then I'm in the Upper Midwest, so I might as well just drive to Winona and do a residency at Winona State University, and then I might— so it kind of turns into this biting off maybe more than you can chew. And, um, that's where, where the, the managing the, the performing, um, doesn't necessarily align. And, you know, I know that this season is a lot about vulnerability, so I'm going to be extreme. Vulnerability is my superpower, I like to say.

I know you mentioned that.

I love, I love and hate being vulnerable as much as anybody. So I'll tell our listeners and you the reason that managing— I might get a little emotional, uh, because of the secret that I'm about to reveal, but The reason that it was a really challenging fall is because I'm pregnant.

Oh!

Yay! Congratulations! Oh my God!

Thank you!

I'm 16 weeks pregnant. And when I found out that I was pregnant, it was 2 and a half weeks before my very first concert. And as exciting as it was, my husband and I were planning on starting a family, not necessarily planning on starting a family when I got pregnant, but babies come when babies want to come. I didn't believe that for a very long time. It's true. This baby has defeated all the odds and it's a boy. He is, he is so excited to be experiencing all this music. Apparently he's just dancing around and an acrobat in there at this point. So, um, but I was extremely, extremely sick, um, the entire time I was playing these concerts. And there were days when I couldn't get out of bed or I couldn't get out of the bathroom. And then I had to drive 2.5 hours, play a concert entirely from memory, and hope beyond hope that I could get through to the end. And we're talking, you know, this is not me. This is not who I— for me, it's like hope beyond hope that I don't miss more than 3 notes. You know, that everybody who's listening understands that we hold the bar so high for ourselves as performing artists, as concert pianists, as entertainers, and It has been the last 4 months, the last 9 weeks, a little bit more now because now I'm on a break, but have been an exercise in learning to manage my own well-being, which usually gets put on hold, I'll be honest with that, in service of the work I'm doing, with managing my commitment to the music and my want to, despite the fact that he's making my life miserable, have a healthy baby. And that was scary because I was performing, I was getting on airplanes, which can be a big risk in the first trimester. I was exhausting myself in many ways. And then when my body would finally say, "You have to stop," and truly I've never experienced that in my life. I usually, I'm like, "Spotty, you're fine." Right, right. I couldn't practice. I mean, I just could not get my butt to the bench in order to put in the hours that I needed. And so it was a big learning curve for me. And I'm finally feeling mostly better. I'm sort of right at the crux of where women start to feel much better. But it's been hard and wonderful. And my own struggle is dealing with the disappointment that this kind of a concert season is what I've worked so hard for. I mean, 20 solo performances plus recording and performing a concerto. I had my first double header, which means that I played a concerto twice in a row on a whole Saturday and Sunday. I've never done that before. Usually it's one-offs. That was huge for me. Working with a conductor who I was so excited to work with, Wilbur Lin of the Colorado Symphony, but also the Denver Young Artists Orchestra, which is the orchestra I was recording with. And just, you know, I was living the dream. I'm living the dream. But I have not been able to feel my best. And dealing with that has been a really delicate struggle and dance. And what I've taken away, what I'm proud of— I'm sorry, I'm talking a lot.

Here's the point. No, please, please.

What I've taken away is that I'm proud that this baby already knows that his mama is not going to stop being who she is just because— and that's where I get emotional, um, because I don't intend to slow down. I don't intend to stop. Of course I'm going to take time off, and I'm going to make sure that I'm there in the first couple of months, but he's coming on tour with me, you know. He's gonna be— whatever I'm doing, he's gonna be there. And I want to be that model for him and show him that you can be whatever you want to be, and you can build the world that you want to build and make the world better for being in it, which is the goal, right? That's what— that's why we're artists. That's why we try to—

but is this season like best one yet for you? Like, not considering pregnancy is a different thing, but of course, absolutely.

No, professionally speaking, I have never— I've been this active before, but never at the level on the, the sort of notoriety of series, notoriety of conductors and orchestras that I'm working with. A lot of things are similar to past seasons. Like, for example, once again, I'm playing a new concerto for the first time. I'm playing the Emperor Concerto in March with the Mankato Symphony in Minnesota, which I've never played before. I'm in the midst of learning it, and that is like, talk about a reason to get your butt to the bench. Like, the joy of working on Beethoven 5 is just overwhelming to me. I always come back to Beethoven. If I need inspiration, it's like, what Beethoven am I going to play today? He's just my, my reason. Beethoven is my reason. And, you know, the music of women and composers of color is my, like, is my commitment, you know? And so, but so in many ways things are the same. I'm not bringing back old concertos, but I'm building my repertoire and have residencies, you know, have been able to string together a season of very notoriously recognizable names. I'm playing, I'm making my Carnegie Hall debut in a month, which is really exciting.

Yes, you're coming to New York, yes.

I am coming to New York.

Work.

And although, you know, and I'm happy to talk about my hangups, why that for me, that's not the pinnacle of my season, quite honestly. Um, for a lot of people looking at me as a concert artist, it's a huge, huge, huge deal. Um, and I'm very excited about it. It doesn't take away from the fact that I'm very excited about it. And I am— it's a chamber music recital, but I am premier— I'm giving a solo world premiere as part of that concert, and I'm very excited about that. Yeah. Um, so, but yes, in many ways This is the— I finally reached the point after 3 years of building, really building from almost nothing. This is the best season, my best season yet. Excuse me.

Wow.

Yeah.

And then, you know, when you— so before you found out about your pregnancy, you were thinking, oh, I booked this hall, I booked this concert with conductor, you're— this is the best season ever yet. Then boom, right? That's life. That's life. But it's wonderful news, right? Don't, don't get me wrong. This is wonderful news.

And wanted, very wanted news.

Yeah. Wow. Then so when is the baby coming?

Baby is coming 5/25/25, which I kind of love because it's a palindrome.

Oh my gosh.

I know. So I keep, I keep telling everybody He knows, so he can't come 3 days earlier because it's my birthday and he's not allowed. I don't share.

Really?

Yeah. Oh, but, um, it would be really fun if he came on 5/25, right? Of course, I don't have any control over that.

So yeah. So when you would be performing, you said there's like a piano concerto you're performing in March, so you'll have this big belly.

Yep, playing 7. So for my last performance, which is also Beethoven 5 on a, on a reduced orchestra, so chamber orchestra plus a work by Gerald Finzi that we're doing with the same group, I'll be 7 and a half months pregnant.

Oh my goodness. Yeah. But how special.

It will be. It will be. You know, it's going to be a challenge in a physical— you know, a physical novelty. I don't actually know if it'll be a challenge. But physical novelty. And it's— I'm excited about that. Don't know what to expect yet. I'm trying to keep my expectations kind of low.

Yeah, but Claire, have you seen any women performing on stage with the big belly before?

Let's talk about this. Let's talk about this. So I will tell you, I was not— remember I said to you in an email, I haven't decided if I'm going to share my secret yet, right? Um, this I feel is a very— you have created a very wonderful supportive community here.

Oh, thank you.

Of course. So it's a community where I feel this needs to be talked about. And I've come to terms— when I first got pregnant, I was like, nobody is going to know. I'm going to edit pictures so that people can't see. I'm going to control everything because I don't have any role models doing what— aiming for the level of career excellence that I am aiming for who talk openly about And I hesitate to say that because I have pianist friends, but they're not necessarily trying to only do what I do. If with— when they— so they, you know, they post about their kids, they post about their pregnancies, etc. They post about a lot of things. But it's not— I am aiming for, you know, for a full-time, lifelong career of doing this at the highest level. And that's, first of all, just hard to do period today because our economy just can't sustain it anymore. Especially when there are many of us, you know, and many of us struggling, many of us at the exact same level. And the other thing that I love to talk about in supportive communities, but when the audience can't tell the difference between what is the highest level and what is not the highest level anymore, and they don't really care, they just want to be entertained. It's not It is not 1950 anymore, and it's certainly not 1850 anymore. But no, I have never seen a woman get on stage with a big belly. I know it's happened. I know I've heard of singers doing it. I've never heard of pianists doing it. And I don't even know if, you know, Marta Argerich was pregnant 3 times. Did she perform when she was pregnant? Hillary Hahn has been. I mean, you know, Hillary Hahn took her whole first trimester off because she was so sick. Um, and. So the reason that I said I want to talk about this here— this is the first professional instance where I've talked about it, and I don't intend to talk about it. I've talked about it one-on-one with conductors that I trust and presenters that I trust, especially when I've needed a little bit of grace in the last 16 weeks, which I have. I've needed a lot of grace. I've never had to ask for grace. I've never had to cancel a concert because I haven't felt well. I didn't cancel anything. But I've had to just say, I'm running a little late because I'm really ill. This is a space where I feel comfortable talking about it, and I think it's important that it be talked about because I would like to be that person that goes out and says, "This is possible and you can do it." And I want to push back. I'm not afraid to push back at people and say, "Really? You're not going to hire me just because now I'm a mom?" But I am terrified of that. I'm really— if I have one hangup, one little voice in the back of my head that I have to fight down every day, it's that. Why would people will say, why hire this woman who is a fine pianist but now has split priorities when I could just hire a guy? Let me just call this guy pianist. He plays this piece, he'll do fine. Or this very young non-mom pianist. And quite honestly, I don't see enough women my age, period, on stages, which is something I— and I look younger than I am, which I think works in my favor. But when I start letting my gray hairs come in and not plucking them out, who knows what's going to happen? And then I'm a mom. You know, and the other thing is I almost want to apologize for saying that— not necessarily apologize, but reflect on the fact that I did just say I'm not planning on slowing down. It should be well within my right to slow down and I should be allowed to come back and pick up and have— and it's not. I mean, I think it's important to say that I don't feel being out in the field, very deeply ingrained in our fields. I don't feel that. I don't feel that I have that flexibility. Um, or support or support, most importantly support. Yeah. Now, I am at the very, the very beginning of this, of this journey, this exploration. I've heard that there are support groups and, you know, not only for just like of, of a community of, of women in the arts who have kids and have dealt with this, but also like legal groups that can help you if you encounter legal trouble because you're being discriminated against for being pregnant or for having, you know, something like that. So, um, they are— I think they are out there, and I trust that they are out there. I think that many of them are New York-based, which is wonderful. Um, but I'm scared about that side of things, and I believe I have reason to be scared because of exactly what you said. So thank you for asking that question.

No, no, no.

Yeah.

Wow, it's a lot to unpack here, but, um, I'm glad that— I, I feel just so honored that you made this announcement through this, my podcast.

What better place to do it in a community of pianists and piano lovers?

So, and I think it's important, and it's important to talk about it, and, uh, uh, you know, uh, for the sake of all the female artists, especially in the piano community where we're still in the, you know, traditional mindset. In many ways. A little.

Yep.

We are.

I mean, yeah.

Right.

And so my, my sort of tearjerker story is that I thought I was having a girl. I was very convinced that I was having a girl. And, um, my 10-week ultrasound was the day after the election. And I don't care how, how anybody listening voted. And I don't even care to share how I voted, although it's not hard to find out if you go on, if you just look into me a little bit. Um, But the, you know, thinking I was carrying a woman into a country that has twice now said they don't believe that a female president can do it, do the job, can lead our country, um, better than a felon, um, is is a really hard thing to carry into an ultrasound lab. So, um, so there was— sadly, there was a little— I was— I, you know, I had my own— I, I had to unpack my own feelings when I found out it was a boy, but part of it was, well, he can be president. Yep, that's exciting. Um, but, you know, it was— I think it's hard to be a girl mom right now, and I think it's hard to be a mom right now, but it's hard to be an artist mom. It's hard to be a mom. Um, but You know, that was my— that was— it's just an interesting time to be alive, I suppose I can just summarize it and say alive, but also an artist and trying to be a world changer. And, you know, there are a lot of reasons to want to just sit on the couch and watch Netflix and we have to bond together. So anyways.

But what a joyous moment in your life too. In many, many ways, and career-wise and your personal life. And that's just beautiful. And how all these things come together through music, right?

Oh, exactly.

Oh, you're living the life.

I've had a couple of people say, oh my gosh, the music that baby must be hearing. I'm like, well, yeah, he's, he's learning how to practice, that's for sure.

Yeah, you get to hear a lot of, you know, repetition and But, you know, in a way, you booked your concerts for this entire season basically prior to that. So I think it's so special that you're continuing and then the baby grows with you through these concerts. That's, that's amazing. Yeah. How special. I just thought of this, like Demi Moore, the actress.

Yes.

Okay. So she, she posted this you know, nude photo when she was like really very pregnant.

I remember that.

I thought of that like while we were talking because it was a groundbreaking thing.

It was, it was.

Yeah, basically you're not being naked, but you're doing the similar thing through piano.

I know, that's right, exactly. There, and there's— yeah, well, and, and what I appreciate about that, that idea, that quip is that in many ways, even though she was revealing everything, she was sort of taking ownership back over her body. And that's one thing that's been really— I mean, I hinted at this when I was talking about sort of, I was totally in control of my body. I knew everything about how my body works. It worked. Everything was like clockwork. And as soon as I hit 6 weeks and morning sickness started kicking in, and then now that I'm starting to show and you can, you know, Apparently I wear fairly tight clothing because nothing fits. And so it's like I have to like arrange things in a way that, um, it's like you lose— people want to touch you, people want to ask you questions, um, people are making comments. And no matter what the comment is, you know, and this, this gets into a lot of microaggressions that cross, you know, into the sexist way border, they talk into the racist border, into the, um, You know, it taps into a lot of, of issts, but you sort of lose control of your own body, not just because there is an— I call him my alien— because my alien is sucking the life out of me and truly taking things that he needs and leaving me the rest, right? But also because from the outside, you become something that people talk about, look at, touch, and that has been weird to me. So in many ways, Demi Moore was like, here it is, go ahead. I welcome it. Now I've given you nothing, nothing between me and what's happening with my body. And that's, that's why I told you. That's why, because I think it needs to be taught. I'm a communicator. That's my, you know, part of the vulnerability being my superpower. If I'll find a way to talk about it in the best, in the, even in the worst of circumstances. And I think just talking about it. Helps bring down the veil a little bit, as uncomfortable as it can be. And, you know, people are maybe tuned into this and be like, I don't want to hear any more about her pregnancy, talk about music.

But, you know, and I really hope that you will show off your body on the concert stage and, you know, hope that people will not talk about it so much anymore, you know, eventually, right?

Or if they, yeah, right. Or if they do that, it's, that it's, wow, she was pregnant and she's still having her career. She's still herself because I am. We all are, whether we choose to have kids or not, or whether we choose, however we choose to dress or what, you know, we're still, it's just choices that, you know, that are contribute to us as opposed to take, they're not, they're not separate from who we are. It's part of who we are. So I will have a bump at Carnegie Hall. So any New York listeners, you will see it loud and proud on the Carnegie Hall stage.

Oh my goodness, I'll be there, I'll be there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's great. I can't wait. So before getting into more details about your work and career, let's just start with this. So, you know, your concert pianist career is blossoming. Remarkable. And from this past fall season, your groundbreaking album, All Dreams Unveiled. I love that album so much, and which debuted at number 2 on the Billboard classical charts.

That was very exciting.

And then commissioning over 30 new works and performing in over 250 world premieres. So you've made a profound impact on the classical music world. So if you were to capture the essence of your artistry, maybe you already have, but a mission and passion in just a few sentences, sort of like introduce yourself to my audience and how would you define who you are as an artist today?

Oh gosh, that's so hard, right? First, I just want to acknowledge how hard it is to talk about the work we do, right? It's putting it into words when it's something that's so intangible is very hard. So let's, I'm going to frame it and say what makes me, what I believe makes me unique. And that doesn't mean that there aren't other people out there doing it, because there are a lot of people that are doing this work now, which is great. But my artistic mission is to cast light into the corners of the classical music— still classical music, but the classical music repertoire, field, realm, stage, whatever you want to call it— where light doesn't get cast enough. So for me, that's the work of women, past, present, future. The work of artists of color, past, present, future, and then the work of creators in general who can't be put in a box. Maybe they're queer artists, maybe they are young artists, you know, they're emerging artists. I hate that word. We're all— I'm still an emerging artist.

Me too.

Exactly. I hope that my wish for everybody is that you'll never stop emerging. Just keep emerging. Um, so anyways, the work of people that audiences have never heard of, or works by famous people that audiences have never heard of. And what's great is that more and more audiences have not heard of much. So you can play Beethoven Opus 109 and they say, "Gosh, that's a beautiful piece of music. I've never heard that before." And I'm like, "What?" You know, every pianist in my studio played that piece for years and years and years and years, but it's novel to our audiences. And then digging a little bit deeper, I don't choose music that just fits into those categories because it has to be a piece that I have something new to say within. I don't play Beethoven Opus 109 like Andreas Schiff, whose version I love, or like Polini, or like I'm sorry, I'm trying to think of a woman that has recorded it and I can't. That is very unfortunate, but that's on me. I'm sure that there are women that have recorded Opus 109. I don't play the Debussy Preludes the way that other people play them because, of course, I'm Claire Longendijk. How— I can't play it like other— I don't want to play it like other people. So I choose to focus on pieces, whether it be Amy Beach Variations on Balkan Themes, which is a piece that very few people play, period. I wouldn't play it just because of that. I play it because I think I have something to bring to that piece. Um, and same with the most famous pieces, from, you know, the, the pieces that everybody knows, um, to pieces by people that everybody knows but that the music is unknown, to pieces by people that are unknown and music that is unknown. So that's sort of my— that's how I frame my curation, my, my artistic approach. But I think I was talking about what makes me unique, and I don't even think it's that necessarily. I think a lot of people do a lot of great work there in terms of digging up repertoire because there's so much repertoire to be dug up. I think what truly makes me unique is that I can stand on a stage and talk to my audience about the music they're hearing, and I can make them love it even if I hate it. And I'm just saying that because I— vulnerability is my superpower, and that means that I can get— so I started talking to audience, I started talking from the stage because I would get so nervous about the playing that I don't care. I know I could— I mean, I speak comfortably in front of people, even if I fumble. And I listen back, I'm like, oh, what did I say there? I'm probably gonna listen back to this and say that thing. I, I'm not as invested in as much in, in that part of things. I'm getting my point across, right? Right, right. I'm not as invested in the perfection of the way I speak because I'm comfortable that my words are communicating their meaning. With piano, I am concerned about the perfection of the way I play. And that is just— hello, my name is Claire Longendijk. I have 15 million degrees in piano and I was trained to be perfect, even if I don't say anything. And I've been fighting against that for the past 30 years of playing the piano. Unfortunately, that's for many of us the way we were trained. So I would get up and I would start talking to the audiences because it relaxed me, and then I would sit down and I would be able to take a deep breath into the bottom of my lungs as opposed to before I started playing. And then it became that I was not regurgitating historical facts, but I was talking about my experience with the music. And then people were coming up to me and saying, I learned so much that even though this is the 30th time I've heard Beethoven Opus 109 or the Waldstein Sonata, or sorry, I'm just naming Beethoven, Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring, or Kinderzeichen, even though I've heard that piece so many times, you told me what to listen for in your interpretation and I learned something new from it. And that is what makes me unique, I think, is that I am kind of the combination of this— it's not really Victor Borge, but like, I think I'm like Mrs. Maisel on stage, a little bit of that Jewish humor. And like, I'm not afraid to make fun of myself because I like myself, and so I'm not afraid to poke fun at me a little bit. And so I bring that little bit of real life. Why should you care? Why should you care, and sometimes they need to be told that. And then I play very musically, and so people are able to enter into the music in a different, new way because they've learned something and they carry that into the interpretation. And, um, the sad thing is I don't actually know how to market that about myself. People just experience it and then they hire me because they're like, I want you to do that for my audience. But it's very hard to talk about that, right? So Here I am, you know, 5 minutes later answering your question.

No, but you know, you mentioned Mrs. Maisel, so maybe stand-up. I would say comedian, but yeah, stand-up meets education meets classical music.

That's sort of what it is. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, you're right. If I— if it were 1950, I would want to be the female Victor Borge. I think Victor Borge is the most hilarious. I mean, I think he like— or I was— somebody sent me a Dudley Moore, um, playing, you know, imitating what Beethoven endings sound like, and it's like a 5-minute video of him pretending to end Beethoven. Um, that kind of humor. But you know the difference, and this makes me so sad, but audiences got it back then. I don't know if audiences— well, I don't, I don't know that audiences would get Victor Borge anymore, right?

But you know, there are, you know, contemporary ways to do it, right?

That's true. That's very true. I mean, for as much as, uh, classical musicians love to hate them, Two-Set Violin was very groundbreaking in this sense, you know, and they were able to bring people that don't care about classical music into our world. Yeah, sure. I know every composer will say, yeah, but they made fun of contemporary music.

Well, but, you know, I think we can be very creative about how we introduce ourselves to the rest of the world, especially to the young people, because I teach— I used to teach a lot more, and then the young ones, especially in New York, they just don't know this world of classical music. And then they thought I would have like a wig with tights on and coming. So no, I'm not. I wear normal clothes here.

Right. Of course.

Yeah. So it's funny.

No wigs.

Yeah.

You know, can I— I'm going to diverge just a little bit and then we'll go back to one of your questions. But I have— because your questions were so good. Can I just say I can't wait to like answer some of these. They're going to make me think. But I've recently gotten into the world of conferencing, which is—

Really?

Yeah. Yeah. And now I will say my two experiences, very, very different. My first experience was with the Women in Classical Music Conference through the Dallas Symphony. Any female or female identifying, I should say, because it's very open in that sense. There were men there as well. In the big minority, but still in the classical arts administration, classical performance, composer, conductor, anything where you feel like you work deeply within the classical music industry and field, I think would benefit from this conference. It was wonderful. And I attended in two years ago. So 2023, 2023. Yes, sorry, but not this past one. I didn't make it in November, but the year before.. And I benefited because I was the only concert artist there. So I made connections. I mean, did I book any gigs from there? No. Did I make connections that I think will continue to be influential in my career? Absolutely. And, um, so that was a, that was a really great way to introduce myself to conferencing. Unfortunately, I took a very sharp left turn from there and I attended this what's called a booking conference because it was local to me in Indianapolis. It's called the MAX Midwest Arts Expo, and this is one of the regional booking conferences that happen, um, across the United States. There's APAP in New York, which is the biggest one and apparently highly overwhelming for people that go. Um, there is Ohio OPN, Presenters Network, which which is a much, much, much smaller one just for the state of Ohio, but artists from all over. Um, there is MAX, Midwest Arts Expo. There is WA, Western Arts Alliance. And then there's— there may be one— no, I think WA covers the whole West. So I guess there are those four. And I went because it was here and because a friend needed me to turn her slides. And I showed up to this conference I spent one afternoon, I sent a couple, I didn't know I was going until like the night before. So I frantically sent emails to these presenters seeing if they wanted to get coffee. I got one response and she booked me for this season. In fact, I just played there in Milwaukee. And quite literally, this woman has become my friend, she's wonderful. Quite literally her talk with me in our booking conversation was, I book one classical piano recital a season. I love your materials and you're very personable, so I'd like to book you. She did not say, I've never seen programming like yours. Your playing moved me. No, no. It was about marketing. So that was my first like, hey, this is great. I booked a gig. But also, hmm. And since I've gotten to know this woman, who is my friend, Her mantras are, "Solo piano is a hard sell." And then, not from her but from a different person, this— I won't mention names, but this performer who is sort of like the electric violin, like, you know, the kind of showy— yeah. I went up to her and I introduced myself. I said, "Remind me, are you classical?" She said, "Oh no, classical music is a bad word." And those were the two mantras that I took away from this conference. And by the end, 4 days in— so this past year I just went. I showcased. I gave a short performance that sort of summarized who I was as an artist. And then I tried to take meetings. And I got a couple of meetings. I have not booked a con. I had to pay to showcase. I had to pay. I got a discounted rate, and I paid $650. I paid to play, which I refuse to do anymore. But I was paying for the opportunity to have people hear me. And I've not yet booked it. I've not yet booked a gig. Now, I think I will, but it's a business. This is the business. This is a peek behind the scenes of the business side of what we do. And we're talking presenters who book Willie Nelson cover bands or Elvis cover bands or a cappella group, you know, and I have no, I'm not, I don't have no judgment here. But I know the level of classically trained artists, and there are no musicians anywhere in the world that play as solidly— not in jazz, not in a cappella singing— classically trained. We are so hard on ourselves. That's part of it. And our teachers are so hard on us that we're— we can go on and do so much more within music generally because we come to music making with this extremely high level of excellence, of— I don't want to say perfection, but of striving to be the best version of ourselves every time we walk on stage. And I know people, it's easy to be critical of that. Sometimes it can lead to really negative things. But I pride myself every day on trying to play at my very best, be my very best, because then that resonates in the rest of my life. Am I treating people with kindness? Am I holding people accountable for their actions in the same way that I hold myself accountable when I'm sitting at my Steinway? And it was a little disarming to me to be at this conference and to realize that when we talk about music business, it's important to not just think about the artistic planners at our orchestras that we want to— where we want to play, or the presenters who are booking us at whatever at Lincoln Center or at Carnegie Hall or at Stanford Live, whatever that looks like. We're talking about people who serve 85% of the American population who want to hear Willie Nelson cover bands and a cappella groups and dueling piano Christmas shows and things like that. And that really, really woke me up. To who am I, why do I want to do this, and am I— like, and our field, classical music, is this big, in the words of the genie from Aladdin, itty bitty living space for a lot of us competing for, you know, to have a larger slice of the pie where the pie is not serving a huge part of the audience. So anyways, that was sort of my— that's kind of my sidebar. But that it's been a little bit of a rude awakening in that sense of like, whoo, got to wake up every day and say, I'm committed to classical music. This is what I want to do. I'm going to reach 5 people today.

Yeah.

No.

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I want to talk about your sort of like entrepreneurial skill with your artistic journey. So you described yourself as a self-starter pioneering a new path as a concert pianist by building a full-time performance career without relying on teaching so much. And I mean, that's So you mentioned about the reality, waking up to this reality of presenters, what they want in concerts, or ideas, or ideal that they have is so different from us. Maybe that's what the market wants, or I'm not sure.

I don't know.

Um, so, but tell me more about your self-starting part, because to me, when I look at you and read your bio, it's like you are I don't see, it didn't see you as like a self-starter type of a person because I don't, I'm not trying to offend you here, but you have this wonderful academia, Boston University, Indiana University, and I'm sure, you know, the path was, I wouldn't say given, but all the supports you have in order for you to So, but please prove me wrong.

So I had wonderful teachers. They gave me, um, great ways to practice. Thank goodness, right? The best thing a teacher can give you is the skill to know how to practice. If this is the path you're on, you know, I haven't taken a lesson in ages. Good gracious, would I love to take a lesson. I would be terrified at this point, but Um, I miss playing for friends and playing for people with, with, um, who are able to speak with authority. But, um, part of the reason that I don't need to seek that, I feel, is that my— especially my last teacher at IU gave me wings. She had the most magical touch when it came to just, you know, I remember when I first had my performer's diploma, so not my doctorate, I did my performance diploma, my doctorate with her. Um, she was like— I played Beethoven Opus 109, and she said, this is not doctoral level. You are not going to get into the doctoral program at IU playing this piece like this. Started there in 2015, and then by the time she died in 2019, I didn't even play. I mean, she had colon cancer at the end, so she was not around. So we would talk on the phone, but I, I wasn't playing for her because she wasn't up to it. And by the time that happened, my last lesson with her would have been in 2018 before I finished my coursework. And She just lifted her hand from, you know, just sort of took away— and I don't mean that she was depriving me, but by saying less, I was working more. And that was the best skill she could give me. So I learned how to practice. I learned how to be expressive, more expressive, all right? I learned how to control my own expression. Let's put it that way. How to control and take advantage of my own sense of very deep sense of self. Sense of expression. I gained technique, but I was handed nothing.

Nothing.

Nothing. I have this drive— is not even— I don't know, this vigor that is— it's like a fire. He must be hot in there. It's a fire in my belly. That's what it is. That it's almost a sickness. I mean, it's really like I— when I said I'm going to be a concert pianist, you know, at the age of 18 or 16 or whatever it was, it was like there's just no stopping me. I mean, I, you know, I'm not like a bull in a china shop. I think that I'm fairly— very impatient, which is important. It's good to be impatient. Don't let anybody tell you the opposite. It's so important to be impatient. But I'm respectful of— well, I'm respectful of what I understand to be a process. You don't just— when you're me, when you have had the path that I've had— and I'll expand on that in a second because you did have a question about this, and I was so glad you pointed this out— you don't just go from getting your doctorate at IU to playing with the New York Philharmonic. And especially now, and I want to highlight this, especially now because our industry is dealing— after George Floyd, our industry is dealing with a lot of backpedaling and trying to make up for— I'm talking about the big organizations— trying to make up for the fact that there have not been people of color equally represented on concert stages for a very long time. Now, there have not been women represented on concert stages for a very long time, but that's not where we are right now. We're not talking, we're not having that conversation. The conversation is very race-driven, and that's excellent and so important, but it changes things a little bit, right? So, you know, if— and this was not me, I was not yet on this path in 2020— but if there was somebody who was on a path of growth That could have been a big game changer when all of a sudden, you know, there were these new Black artists who were coming up who were so deserving. Michelle Cann is my favorite example. I mean, Michelle Cann is a— just one of the most inspiring pianists that I've heard and seen, and she's doing so much, and that is so well deserved. Lara Downs is another excellent example. And it's important that we hear these voices. There is enough space in our industry to hear all sorts of voices though. Not though, I don't want to make a comparison statement, but there is enough space in our industry for everybody to have this room for growth and to— for all of these voices to be represented in, in a beautiful and equal way. So anyways, that's, that's not my experience, but what I'm saying is as you're building these things and as you're— as I have been building, I've gotten to witness waves of, you know, the, um, the higher umbrella of classical music. I'm not talking about me personally, I'm not even talking about people at the academic level. I'm talking about the way, way, way high-ups, the CEOs of the big organizations, the, you know, the National Endowment for the Arts, the, um, New Music USA, the New York Philharmonic, for goodness sakes, deal with things like The ripple effect of Me Too, the ripple effect of George Floyd, which changes the approach in many ways. So I was handed nothing except I was sort of— I kept fueling this fire in my belly to want to do more and more and more and more and to not have to sacrifice just because I haven't won any big competitions. I was never trained to be a competition pianist. Um, and I'm very glad. So I would— when I turned— I cried at midnight when I turned 30 because I was like, it's done. I can't, I can't compete in any competitions. I am too old now. Um, at the same time, knowing how I played at the age of 30, I hate that that's the cutoff because what— I didn't have anything to say. I hadn't lived life before I hit 30, you know. Now I have something to say and I I don't want to compete in a competition because I don't want to be judged for it. I just want to say what I have to say and then have spark dialogue. So I call myself a self— I don't really call myself a self-starter. I think I just sort of describe— I think that's an easy way to describe it because I feel that I've gotten to explore and more deeply understand the way building a career works without having had anything handed to me. And I've learned that even when you are an artist who has things handed to you, like let's say that you just won Leeds, let's say that you just won the Van Cliburn, if you don't put in the work after that, you still don't get to have a career. The people that win big competitions and then go on to have recognizable names in our industry have a lot of money thrown at their career, a lot of human power supporting their career in order to get their name to the point where people are picking them up. Because the thing is, and the reason that I'm no longer regretful of the fact that I did not do the competition circuit, is when you win that competition, you have 2 years or 5 years or 1 year to be the winner of that competition before there's another winner of that competition. And if you don't have a reason for people, for people who know what to do, marketing people, business people, PR people, not musicians, people who are, who think you're fine, but don't really even care about the way you play. You just have a name that they can make money off of. If you don't have those people invested in who you are, um, you may go nowhere. You may get that competition money and then you know, and end up like the rest of us, teach, trying, trying to figure out, well, am I going to go the academic teaching route or am I going to build a teaching studio to support myself? How am I going to support myself in this industry where the audience is dwindling and care about classical music? Classical music is being called exclusive and elitist, and we have to fight against that. So I call myself a self— the reason I call myself a self-starter is because I have built a village around me of people who will do anything to support me. They will make tax-deductible contributions to support CDs. They will come, they will buy tickets that they don't even plan to use to shows that I'm giving that are threatening, that are threatened to be canceled because I haven't sold enough tickets. They will fly to New York to hear me play. I have people flying from Minnesota, Indiana, all across the Eastern Seaboard and Seattle to come hear me play at Carnegie Hall because they think it's a big deal and they want to hear what I have to say on that stage. And that's where I've invested my, my energy and my time because I've had nothing handed to me, but I know how to ask for things. And that's where I've been in building this, this circle of trust around me. That's how I feel that I've been successful. And then that, because From there, I'm not afraid to say to somebody, "I'm so glad you love the way I play. Do you know anybody on the board of the Indianapolis Symphony that you could bring to my next concert so that they can hear me and that they can have me sort of get my name in front of the people that count at that university or that orchestra or whatever?" And that has been the reason that I haven't stopped, that I haven't given up, I think, that I've continued to fuel the fire in my belly. Because there are 500 people out there who would care if I stopped. It's not a lot, but I think that's enough for me to say, um, what can I do that's new and exciting to the people that care about me most? You know, a family member was coming from LA to Carnegie, pulled me aside and said, Claire, I'm a little torn. "I love you and I care about what you do and I'm excited to support you and you're playing at Carnegie Hall and that's so exciting, but I don't love the music you play. I don't feel connected to the music you play." And I was like, "Oh my gosh. First of all, taking that to heart because that means I need to show you what to be excited about, but also that's not my job. Like, thank you. I don't need to convince you to like something you don't like." Thank you. And I said, listen, this is not the biggest concert I'll ever play. As exciting as it is that I'm playing at Carnegie Hall, this is not the biggest concert that I'll ever play. I don't blame you. It's going to be expensive to get out there. It's going to be— I'm sharing the stage, albeit with a wonderful collaborator, but it's not just me. And I've built my career as a soloist, really. Love playing chamber music, would never turn down an opportunity to play chamber music, but I've gone the hardest route, which is playing by myself and with orchestras for the most part. And I said, I don't blame you. And I said, and this program is unusual for me because I only got to choose one piece, world premiere that I'm giving. Otherwise, this music was dictated by the label that is releasing the CD and presenting us at Carnegie Hall. And so it's unique. It's great. I like the music, but it's not my usual my— like I described earlier, right, in our talk, the way that I— I didn't get to choose this music in the way that I usually choose and craft and curate and think about very carefully about the way music connects. So I said, I don't blame you if you don't want to come. There will be other performances, probably closer to home in LA. And he said, nope, you've convinced me, I'm coming. And that's why I'm a self-starter, because um, it's— for me, it's about the people and bringing those people in with the acknowledgement that, uh, it takes a village. And it's really— it can be really hard to support somebody in an industry that— where solo piano is a hard sell, or classical music is a bad word, as I was told at this conference. So, um, that is why I say that.

Well, but you are brave and you followed your heart, and that's why where you are, where you are today, right? But I'm sure, you know, especially not following the traditional, rather, track, um, which is teaching is like the first thing to do.

And so that's what I was told I had to do. I mean, that's what, you know, or sorry, I wasn't even told. It was like, you get a master's and you get a doctorate and then you get a teaching job. And then you rot in that teaching job and you never play the piano again. And I said, I think there's something wrong with this. I don't feel right here. I don't have a seat at the table here. I'm not given any power. I'm not given any deciding power. I can't even start my own series to bring wonderful pianists for my students who've never heard classical music to hear without getting yelled at by the chair of my department because I'm not asking the right questions and getting the right permissions. Okay, you know, so sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.

No, so, you know, that takes courage, right? But so transitioning away from the traditional model where teaching often supports performance careers is a bold move. And I've worked for big institution for several years as a full-time faculty too, and it's a lot. And right, so, but because of the full-time position, you know, financially it's not, it's not a lot, but you're secured, right?

Sure. Well, okay. And here's what— it did take a lot of courage. Thank you for acknowledging that. Um, and it took a lot of time for me to get there. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna share a little bit about this. It's gonna sound a little goofy, but the reason I'm here is because of another podcast. The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song. And I'll get there. But what I started to realize— so for those that don't know, my path was my second year of my doctorate, I was hired at a very small liberal arts college just outside of Indianapolis called Franklin College. Very small department of music, but really good students, good kids, not good pianists, good kids. And talk about self-starter. I was being paid per student that I was teaching, a set amount, 30-minute lessons. And then for any piano majors, which I only had one, uh, she was an exchange student who came from China, and she was— oh my gosh, when she got there, I was like, thank you! Oh my gosh, we have— we can work on— we can work on classical music. Um, but what I did to build my studio and to make sure that I was maximizing my income, I went and I made a pitch to the football team, and I said, hey guys, My name is Claire. I'm a lot of fun. You should take piano because you are going to go on in your fields and you're gonna want to take people on dates, and the arts are a great way to, you know, woo a partner. So I sort of spun it in the only way that I know how to talk to young male, for the— in this case because football team— male Indiana Hoosiers, you know. I was just sort of like, let's, let's see what we could do. And they loved me. To this day, they've become— I'm still in touch with some of them. They support me through tax-deductible contributions. I've written job recommendations to some of them. I still get messages that say, hey, Professor Longendyke, how's it going? You know, just— and that's— it's teasing. They call me Claire now. They called me Claire when I was their teacher. But so what happened from there, I was having a lot of fun doing this, and then the provost looked at my, uh, W-2 income and said, we're paying her too much. So they cut my pay in half. So I had a studio of 22 students that I built, and I was all of a sudden back to making what I would have been making had I had 8 students. And so I said, okay, well, this isn't worth it anymore. Um, and so as soon as I finished my coursework, I started applying to other things because at that point I was, I was I could leave, right? I could be elsewhere, and I wasn't having to be in class in Bloomington, et cetera— Bloomington, Indiana. And I got the first job I applied for, very luckily, which was a job that I felt was a really good fit for me— the artist-in-residence director of chamber music and a lecturer at the University of Chicago. As somebody so invested in new music, Augusta Read-Thomas is on faculty there. She's become a very close friend. Close friend and collaborator. You know, I was working with composers, the student composers, the PhD composers who would go on to be very strong collaborators for me moving on into the future. But really, I took the job because of the artist-in-residence title. And what I found very quickly was that the department didn't really care about that part. That was just sort of my permission to give recitals and to play. It was sort of— it sort of legitimized the fact that I'm a pianist first and then I'm doing all of this extra stuff. And I really liked coaching chamber music groups. And I did find too that I also really liked working with students who were going to go on to be economists and physicians and mathematicians because I felt better. I didn't feel ethically good training people at their instrument to go on and have to fight the fight that I was fighting for with every ounce of my being, which was, I want to be a performer and I don't know how to do it yet. I didn't feel that that was ethically appropriate. I really didn't. I felt like if I were to be a piano professor at a university I needed to help my students understand. I needed to incorporate arts administration and marketing and the importance of social media and how to send an email to a presenter and why it's important to have somebody sending emails on your behalf, et cetera, into the way I taught. But at the same time, that's not what they were paying me for. So I liked this idea of coaching chamber music and getting to show off my expertise of this music, but also inspiring them to be at their highest level of excellence. Excellence, not just in music, which was not their career path, but also in their day-to-day, like I do for myself. And then the pandemic hit. And at that point, my husband and I, my then-boyfriend and I, had a— we're in our starter home on the north side of Indianapolis. He was struggling but really gaining momentum in a new career for himself and was growing roots here. But at the same time, we were like, OK, we want to be in a larger city. I'm originally from Chicago. My brother was in Chicago, closer to family, which is in Minnesota, Wisconsin. So he said, you're our pioneer in Chicago. You're figuring out if this is where we're going to eventually gravitate towards. Bigger art scene for me up there than down here, for certain. And once the pandemic hit, it became very clear that there was no— room for growth for me there. I was in a 30-hour-a-week position, and this is a reality that any faculty member is going to understand— being paid 30 hours a week and often working 60 hours a week and then getting pushback when I would say, well, listen, I'm going to take this week kind of slow because I worked 60 hours last week, and so technically I don't need to work this week. And they didn't think that was—

I know—

appropriate. And I wasn't given a seat at the table. And the weird thing about a department like that is that Unlike every school that I'd ever attended, where the performers, the ones out doing the work, were at the top, the highest echelon, it was the academics, the music theorists, the music historians, the ethnomusicologists, the composers who were sort of the most important. Even not even the composers, I would say. I think Augusta Read Thomas really had to fight for the amount of power that she had. It was the academics who were really the ones deciding how vital performance should be. And I struggled with that. And so I decided it was time to make a move. And I left for a position in arts administration, which, just a sidebar, I'd founded a nonprofit new music chamber— chamber performance— chamber music festival here in Indianapolis. So I had a lot of experience with the nonprofit side of things. A lot of experience. That's not fair. I had some experience from the ground up, um, of with the, um, with the nonprofit world, the 501 sector. Um, I'd done a lot of fundraising for myself at that point, so I was a great fundraiser. Once again, talk about that person-to-person having to ask difficult questions and being vulnerable. I was— I'm very good at that, asking for money. And so I got hired as the executive director of this performance— performing arts organization based in Pittsburgh, but I got to work remotely and then only go to Pittsburgh every once in a while. And it was a bad fit. It was very clear from early on to me that it wasn't going to be a long-term position for me. So I listened to a podcast, and I always kind of forget— now she's very popular and she is a poker player. She's been on a lot of podcasts, including— we're talking like she's done a TED Talk, she's on Hidden Brain and things like that, like NPR and New York Times level podcast. And her podcast— her talk was about quitting and how important it is to quit. And as I'm sure this resonates with you, Yukimi Song, we don't quit in class. We keep working on a piece until we can play it to the highest level of our ability, and then we put it down and we bring it back 6 months later to see if it's any better. And we push, push, push, push, push, and we spend hours in a practice room. We don't think about the toll it's taking on our minds and our body, we don't quit. If I had a quitting bone in my body, I may not be having this conversation with you. I would probably be— I may be a CEO of some big organization somewhere, a high-powered woman with, you know, better pay, better hours, and, you know, other things. Um, and basically she just said, if you're a poker player and you don't quit, like, you lose all the time. That's the alternative, is you lose. And basically she was— the moral of her talk was, if you quit, all you're doing is closing a door and allowing a window to be opened. And the next day I had a meeting and I said, I'm leaving this position. Now, this is another vulnerable, important thing. I had just gotten engaged to my husband at that point. So I had, you know, was soon to have double income, dual income. He has a much more consistent— he's in finance, he has a much more consistent job, and a very consistent team. He has support, and I could afford to take a pay cut while having healthcare as soon as we got married. I was already on Obamacare because this company didn't offer me healthcare, so after I left the University of Chicago, I was already paying very little because I was making very little. But that's what finally empowered me. To say, if I don't do this now, I'm never going to do it. And now that I'm pregnant, boy, am I glad I've done it. Because even if I make a decision, or God forbid, even if I have a high-needs child who demands a little bit more of my time and my energy and my love so that I am not able to maintain the schedule that I would love to be able to maintain that I'm currently having, I've done it, I've been doing it, and I know what it takes, and I know how to adapt. And, um, I don't even remember what the starting question was.

No, it started—

and but so it, you know, that's what I tell people. You have to quit things. You have to quit that. You have to learn. You have to get good at quitting. And honestly, it's unbelievable the ripple effect that has had in my musical life. I I really wanted to play Schumann's Ghost Variations, which is a magical piece of music that I had programmed and programmed things around and like really, and I didn't play it well. So I quit and I picked up Kinderszenen or Arabesque or something like that, which suited me beautifully. And I said, good, thank goodness I quit that piece because if I can't convince an audience, if I can't convince myself I play this well? How can I convince an audience that I'm playing this well? And honestly, it was, it was that podcast. It was just listening to somebody. It unlocked something that was like, put it down if it doesn't work for you. What are you missing that could change your life for the better if you don't quit? Don't acknowledge that we are not built to be good at everything. We are not built to be, you know, I don't play Bach anymore for that reason. I'm too afraid and I don't wanna get on stage and be afraid. I play Bach for fun, but I perform everything after Bach. So, yeah. Wow.

Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing and being so candid with me. And of course, yeah. Now I understand the part of, uh, self-starting. You know, I've been listening to your album. Is it a debut album of Dreams?

My debut solo album, yes.

Debut solo album. Okay, so for quite a few weeks now. So yeah, and I'm struck by how thoughtfully you've curated the programming and also other pieces too. And then, uh, uh, order of pieces, I'm sorry. And then the inclusion of a familiar composer like Debussy alongside with contemporary composers like Amy Williams and Anthony R. Green ties everything together really well, quite well. And then this reminds me of a conversation I've had with the renowned radio host and pianist and composer Jed Lissler. I've interviewed him at the beginning of the season, and he said something about almost like these days in the, you know, in this century, I think it's better that you program in such a way that there's like a thought and effort into it. It's not, you know, we don't want to hear all Bach pieces, but maybe, you know, blending of tradition to contemporary, almost like being a DJ.

That's right. That's right.

Yeah. So tell me, what is the overall theme of this album and what made you decide to curate these works by 3 completely different composer.

Completely different, right? So talk about nuts and bolts. It's fun to talk about this part of it. So believe it or not, the project started with Amy Williams because I wrote my dissertation about Amy Williams. It's a performer and composer's guide to the work, to her current piano works, which at the time, the most recent— I think this is still the case— the most recent piece that she'd written was the piece that I commissioned with the support of a grant through my alma mater, Indiana University, the two books of piano portraits. And so what was so fun for me was that I got to do a complete survey of everything she'd written. The two— I think I did the two— well, solo pieces, and then I commented on her two concerti, Lightroom and Darkroom is what they're called. And I got to explore this composer's work, which I already loved, was already hooked on Amy Williams, but then really got to dig my hands in. And then at the end, got to commission this new piece that nobody had heard about. Nobody had read about, and I knew that part of that was to be a recording of it. So actually, the CD that you've heard is technically part 1 of 2. I still have to record the second part of it. I have to learn a lot of the second part of it, but I have to record the second part of it. And so I talked to Amy and I said, what do you think would go well with your pieces? I searched for portraits and maybe I was going to focus on this or that, and I couldn't find something. And so she said, maybe Debussy, and she loves the Etudes. And I sent a playlist to my mom, who is, you know, has been surrounded by classical music thanks to me, but has still has a contemporary ear and knows what she likes and what she doesn't like. And she said, I don't hear you, your expression in the Etudes. The Etudes are fine, but— and I think that audiences generally may have found the Etudes plus Amy Williams to be a little academic, maybe. So she said, how about book 2 of The Piano Preludes? Remember how we— and then remember how we were talking about biting off more than I can chew? I was like, how about all of the Debussy Preludes? And part of that made a lot of sense to me because it's both books of portraits. Why not do both books of Amy Williams— or excuse me, of Debussy's Preludes? And at the time, it was 2020, 2020, 2021, and they had sort of become my pandemic project. And so what I did starting from making that decision was I spent— I created groups of 2 or 3 preludes, and I spent a week meeting and reading the preludes. I'd played many of them before, but not in my current state of professional pianist, which generally means I'm a lot more flexible with the way I interpret, especially with Debussy. I am very— I believe that there is a level of freedom in the interpretation of these pieces that needs to be derived from narrative, derived from storytelling. And I learned that while I was studying in France. And I'm very grateful to it, to my teachers for teaching me that because I listened— part of what solidified my decision to record, like why do that? Everybody has recorded all of the, you know, from Christian Zimmermann to contemporary pianists today have recorded these pieces. But I truly thought that I played them differently. I listened to many complete recordings and I said, now I I think I have something to say with these pieces. And then because I'm somebody that really cares about representation, and I said there's no way that I would put out an album, a first album with only white composers, that got me thinking about composers, off-the-beaten-path composers who have been influenced directly by Debussy. Because Amy said, I think my music would jive well with Debussy. And I agreed because they're so contrasting in many ways. But then I wanted to have a composer who was directly influenced by Debussy, and I went to school with— I went to Boston University with Anthony R. Greene, and I had already played this piece, To Anacreon in the U.S., which is— which was composed as a postlude to Feu d'artifice, Fireworks, the final prelude. So when I play it, often when I play them in concert, I turn the little rumble at the end, the perfect fifth rumble at the end of but that's your piece. I don't stop. I connect that directly to the little tremolo trill that starts Anthony's piece so that they connect seamlessly.

Oh, wow.

I didn't— I chose not to do that on the CD because I was kind of a purist with the CD. I still wanted— I didn't want people to listen and say, ugh, that's awful, I hate that. And because I wanted them to be tracked.

Right, right, right.

There needs to be— I wanted that so the seamlessness is there, but not necessarily, but to get something different. And live performance is different than recorded performance. So I wasn't a purist in my interpretations, but what I mean is when I was— when it came down to making an archival performance of my interpretation of these pieces, it was important to me that it be a little bit more flexible. So I commissioned two new pieces from Anthony, one of which The fugue following Des Passions la Neige is on the CD. Another one is this amazing, like mind-blowing commentary on minstrels and coming from a Black composer. He has done— I mean, I can tell you because it hasn't been recorded yet. What he did was he took every instance of— well, not every, because there are many more, but obvious instances of appropriation of the work of Black artists. And he quotes it in a fugue. So we're talking that we have quotes from Little Quips in this fugue, and it's all in counterpoint, from Elvis Presley to Bye Bye Bye by NSYNC to like Mozart, Beethoven, obviously, who was, you know, there's the whole, the whole story of the Kreutzer Sonata. So he and I told him exactly what I was doing, and I said, I want this to be a contemporary commentary on a composer who wrote a politically incorrect, borderline racist piece of music, or at least named it such. Well, no, it's a cakewalk. Racist piece of music. And the reason I asked him specifically, I gave him carte blanche to pick any of the other ones and any of the other preludes, and he chose Des Pas sur la Neige. But I asked him specifically to either do Général Lavigne, Excentrique, which is also a commentary on an artist who would often perform in blackface, but I asked him specifically for one of those two, Général Lavigne or Minstrels, because I said, I told him how I know social justice is such an important part of the work he does. I knew that he would do it in a way that would respect the piano. They would be idiomatic to the instrument, so I didn't have to worry about him writing things that I couldn't play, essentially. He's a wonderful pianist and plays a lot of these preludes. But what came from it was he really trusted me to be the vehicle for delivering this message and this piece. And it's been part of— that's part of where my superpower of vulnerability has had to come from, is that I get up in front of largely audiences of white people and say, this is a commentary on cultural appropriation, and let's talk about what that is and why it's important to acknowledge it and talk about it. So anyways, so when it came down to the, the nuts and bolts of finding how these pieces all fit together, it was, it was a longer process because I would perform them in different groups and I would say, I didn't like how that worked. But as I got to know the music more and more and more and more and more intimately, it was unbelievable how some of these pieces fit together. One of my favorite examples is Amy Williams' Helena, which is dedicated to Helena Bugallo, her duo partner and best friend, somebody that she went to grad school with and has continued to perform with and be very close with for, you know, many years since, decades since. And Bouillard, Fogg's, Debussy's Fogg's, they're both this sort of veiled mysterious luminescence and multiple voices happening. And, and so even though Amy Williams' music is nothing like Debussy's, I mean, it's angular, it's percussive. Her father is a very, very well-known percussionist. And so her music really has rhythm at the core of it. But it's very American. It's very, you know, edgy. And a lot of people who don't like her music by itself— my mother is one of these people— struggles with Amy's music. Really liked the way the pieces fit with Debussy because it starts to blur the lines. And that was my goal. How can I blur the line so that when you're listening, you're not entirely sure what is Debussy and what is Amy Williams and what is Anthony R. Green anymore?

Huh.

Yeah.

Yeah. But you see, the blend was just impeccable. Thank you. Seamless.

So much fun.

It was so good. I was like, oh, that's Debussy. Wait, wait a minute. That's Debussy. Oh, what happened? That sort of thing.

And I'm glad that you're saying that as somebody who knows the Debussy pieces so well. What came of this for me was the realization that when I say Debussy, people think Clair de Lune. Audiences, normal, many of the audiences that were buying my CD think Clair de Lune. Clair de Lune. That's it. That's what I know. And so a lot of the CD generally. Was very out there for them because a lot of the preludes are very forward-thinking, you know. Something that sounds like a normal added 6 chord to us is like dissonant to other untrained ears, people that don't know that corner of Debussy's music or only know Clair de Lune. Um, so it— and even though those harmonies are still in Clair de Lune, like that music, it's just it's so popularized that it becomes normal. So I'm glad it works for you too, because, you know, I think there's a— maybe there's a group of listeners who would say it all sounds contemporary to me, even though the pieces were written 100 years apart. And that's a long time ago for some of Debussy's music.

So, yeah, but it's a wonderful album to listen to. So for those who are listening to this episode, So please go to all the music streaming services and then look for Of Dreams Unveiled. And then also they can go to your website at clairelungendijk.com and search for the album. Now, where does this Dreams come from?

Ah, so there is a quote by Debussy. So I'm reading directly from my liner notes. The album's elusive title derives from my favorite Debussy quote. In French, "La musique, c'est du rêve dont on écarte les voiles. Ce n'est même pas l'expression d'un sentiment, c'est le sentiment même." And the translation in English is, "Music is dreams from which we part the veils. It is not the expression of feeling, it is feeling itself." And— oh, I get emotional, it's the baby! But it's— how beautiful, how true is that? It's just pulling back the curtain on its vulnerability. Music is vulnerability, being willing to take it in, being willing to not get it, and then being willing to let it wash over you. And so, of dreams unveiled. And I, so I sort of took it and turned that quote around. But then, of course, it had to start with the dot, dot, dot, just like Debussy's Prelude And I had a French friend who knows Debussy's music very well who commented and said, I love your... title. She got it. I was appreciative of that. So that's where it's sort of a nod to Debussy, but also a nod to English, you know, in many ways, because language has a lot to do with the way people compose. And I've got two American composers, one of whom is very American, Amy Williams. Anthony lives in Europe and is sort of imbued with this European culture. He speaks a little bit of French. And then this very French, nationalist French composer who, you know, went to the World's Fair and that was, that was part of his, his introduction to the world outside of his country's borders. So the language thing has a lot to do with it. And as you can hear, I love French and francophile doesn't even begin to to say it. I am obsessed with French culture and language and people. And you live there, right?

And I think you've got a Fulbright. Yes.

And well, what's— you know what the fun thing about this is? That when I applied for it, it wasn't actually a Fulbright, but Fulbright has since taken it over. So I get to advertise that I got a Fulbright even though I didn't have to go through the full Fulbright process. But regardless, I got an excellent grant that is still available for— unfortunately, the cutoff is 30, but for young emerging artists, musicians and artists, and psychologists, I think, too, or sociologists, because the woman, Harriet Hale Woolley, was an arts philanthropist and lover, but either a sociologist or a psychologist or something like that. So, and it paid well for a year for me to study in Paris and live in this very bohemian room at the Cité Universitaire, which is like, this campus of almost 40 international houses that are dorms, dormitories, but you're surrounded by, you know, I was right next to the Belgian house and the Portuguese house and the Finnish house. And so it was every day and, you know, just this multicultural experience. But I won't lie, I spent a lot of time at The Piano Pod practicing 10 hours a day while I was there, which was a very good use of my time as it turned out. And all in all, I spent 5 years there. Oh yeah, so I was enrolled in school. I was getting diplomas. And I was learning the French way of doing a lot of things, not just playing the piano, which has really informed my approach, I think, my touch, my sensitivity, I think, to the instrument. Germans might not like the way I interpret Beethoven or Mozart or Haydn because it's a little bit Frenchy. You know, that's— I like the way I play, so it works. But I was also doing solfège. When I sing notes, I sing in solfège now, and the students I teach are like, what are you singing? I was doing orchestral score reduction. I was like taking classes of piano accompaniment, it's called, but where it was not about how to follow your partner. It was like how to transpose by major third, minor third, up and down. If a singer needs you to do it on the spot. Do I remember how to do that anymore? Absolutely not.

Okay.

But I did end up going on to teach some of that stuff, figured bass, for example, when I was at the University of Chicago. So skills that I had no idea would pay themselves forward and did. And I am definitely a stronger pianist because I have those skills that I gained in France.

You just can never stop learning, right? It's so deep. Yeah. Yeah, I know.

And you have to keep doing it because otherwise it gets harder as you go. I mean, memory is a great example of that. I push myself to memorize, but I used to be able to memorize, I don't know, 40, 45.

Oh my gosh, but you're still young, you're okay. I'm like, but—

Well, but you know, it's also 2024. It's also today. We have a lot of crap floating around in our brains. And I don't need half the crap that I have floating around in my brains. It's like reels from Instagram. Things that my parenting videos that my husband sends me, I don't need this. I need to memorize my Beethoven piano.

That's true. Yeah.

You really have to find quiet in your head in order to, to do that kind of work.

But being in Paris for that year, you know, was able to do that. How wonderful, right? Just being able to immerse yourself in your craft. Oh. The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song is now on Substack. If you're wondering, Substack is an all-in-one platform where creators like me can connect directly with you, share exclusive content, and build a thriving community. By subscribing, you'll get behind-the-scenes updates, early access to new episodes, and special perks designed just for our audience. Your Substack Your subscription helps us create more of these meaningful conversations and support initiatives that uplift the classical music community. So join us on Substack and be part of this journey. Please go to thepianopod.substack.com/subscribe or click the link in the description to subscribe today. Thank you for your support, and I We look forward to sharing more joyous and meaningful experiences with you on The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song. So Claire, on the day of each interview session, I usually have all the guests' performances queued up on YouTube as I prep for session, and while doing so, I came across your recital video, which was a year ago. I think we talked about that live at the center, which was a local thing, but the venue is glorious.

Beautiful.

Wow.

And huge. Oh, huge. I know. I, my goal was to sell out the hall, and wow, that was gonna be very—

but there's like a pipe organ in the background. Oh wow.

And they do a beautiful— I mean, and I got a gorgeous recording from that too. I mean, multi-angle angles, and then the lights, and it was really—

and then you, you performed really beautifully, and it spoke very well. So well. But anyway, um, so with— I noticed the Schumann Arabesque you talked about, and then You also shared a separate video clip of your performance of Schumann's Arabesque in collaboration with two dancers, which I think by the time this episode comes out, I think the video will also be released, no?

Or at least it will be within— so people that are listening are getting sort of a sneak preview, which is great.

Right.

Great. So mid-January.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So can you share, first of all, personal connection to this piece?

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

I used to go to my lessons with Dr. Karen Shaw at IU, and I was always late. I was always a couple minutes late, and she always— I always asked for times at the end of the day because by that time she and I were like this. We were super close, and our lessons would go on for ages, and at the end she would say, "Can you help me with this thing on my computer?" And, you know, "How's sweetie?" which is what she called my boyfriend, my husband at the time. She loved him. Um, we had a very strong personal and artistic connection, and truly I think that she is— I don't think she'd be surprised to know how— what I've built for myself since then, and that I take a lot of pride in that. Anyways, I would get there a little bit late, and she didn't perform anymore at that point. She hadn't performed in 20 years, truly had not played a single concert, had barely played a piece, you know. She, she would practice for fun, but that was it. And I would get there, and I would always wait and listen through the thick wood door, um, to see if she was playing. And 9 times out of 10, she was playing the arabesque. And, or the spin and pull as she called it, andante spinato, and polonaise. And she had this flexibility and this touch. And she didn't get a lot of credit for it except amongst her students truly, but she would play on this old, really not well-maintained Steinway in our studio. And she could get a sound out of that instrument that none of her doctoral, master's, undergrad students could even dream of getting. It was just this— there was so much vibrancy to the, to the sound she would get. And, um, so that piece was really an acknowledgment of, of my love for her and, and all that she taught me. Because there is so much— it's— the Schumann Arabesque is not a challenging piece, but if you treat it like an easy piece, you can't sell it. There's so much to it. And there's, there's also— I played a little bit slower than most people do, just a little bit, because I like to highlight the dance element. And which maybe leads to the next thing, which is this recording that I'm releasing that features two dancers. And the impetus behind that project— I recorded two pieces— was sort of twofold. I recorded Clair de Lune, because a piece that everybody knows, and I recorded Schumann Arabesque. And on the one— on the business side of things, my goal was to try to play the Spotify game a little bit. And what that means is I really was looking to up my numbers and to gain a little bit broader recognition, name recognition, by playing classical music that isn't hard to listen to for people that don't know they like classical music. And that's part of my mission that I didn't mention earlier is bringing new audiences into classical music, both from the ground up, young people, to people that, like my next door neighbor, who, God love him, I'm very close with my neighbors. He comes to the shows I play locally. Does he like the music? I don't know, but he comes for me and he walks away saying, "I knew that Claire Lune piece. I've heard you play that one before," or, "I've heard that one before." And, but I wanted to do something different with the Schumann partially because it's so repetitive and because we listen with our eyes. I wanted to imbue it with something that reflects the dance. I mean, the arabesque is both an acknowledgement of the musical embellishment and the freedom that Schumann was granting us in this simple ba-dum, da-dum, da-dum, da-dum, to not play it the same way every time it comes back 4 times, but also an arabesque is a dance movement, and I wanted to show that. And so I contacted this female ballet dancer who I thought still lived in Indianapolis. She flew in for this project, which was really an honor and a sort of acknowledgement of our part of the work that we've— she and I have done together. And I sent her the recording and I said, what can you do with this? And she said, you know, it might help if I had a partner. And for me, it became this story of Clara, Robert and Clara. And I don't think that's a stretch because I think a lot of the music that Robert was writing at the time was for Clara, right? And at this point, When he's written this piece, and I cannot think of the exact year, forgive me, but he is— they're still young, and Clara's father, who is Schumann's piano teacher, has said, "You cannot spend time with Robert. You cannot be with him. You cannot get engaged to him because you have a career as a concert pianist to build." Thank goodness he said that because that woman went on to have a marvelous career, granted raising a bajillion children, but still, as a concert— she was a pioneer as a female concert pianist in a stage where there weren't any. So, but it's still this push and pull of like, I want to be with you and I'm in love with you and I want to be engaged to you. But also he's engaged to somebody else, Ernestine von Fricken of Carnival fame. And then this kind— so the dancers really bring out this tension in the music, some of which is sort of, forgive me for using binaries, but a masculine tension and some of which is this like has a little bit more female sensitivity. And then I'm the narrator, I'm the glue, as pianists so often are in chamber music and orchestral playing, and I'm the one that's passing the baton back and forth. And just like my favorite— maybe my favorite thing that Schumann ever wrote is "Der Dichter spricht" at the end of, you know, "The Poet Speaks" at the end of "Kinderszenen." Just like at that point, the narrator finally gets to to say something at the end of Arabesque with this, everything pauses, the theme ends, and then it's this beautiful, beautiful coda. And we really played with that, both with the dancers and then the videographer, who's also a collaborator and friend, you're a collaborator and friend of mine. And we had a lot of fun exploring the story behind the music. And that's kind of where I am in my DIY projects, the projects that I launch. I have to shine new light onto them. I need to say something new so that when people go and find my recordings, they not only hear and see that it's a different interpretation, but also maybe they can understand why, rather than just saying, as some of the reviews of my CD said, "Claire plays this music much slower than most interpretations." Yes, but why? Do you understand why? That's what I want people to have some insight into.

So I'd also love to hear your thoughts on interdisciplinary works, just like you've done with the dances and The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song. So is it going to be more— should we more incorporate those collaborations, interdisciplinary work as classical musicians?

I don't know that I'm comfortable casting, saying yes or no to that. But I'll share the reasons that I do it. First of all, because in many— in some instances, many instances, um, reaching an audience takes multiple avenues. Like I said a few minutes ago, people listen with their eyes, right? So giving people something engaging to look at, just like why we like— you know, a lot of people like watching TV versus listening to an audiobook for something, or maybe not prefer that, but there are reasons that people choose those two. You know, it's storytelling, hopefully good storytelling, but one has a strong visual component, is reliant on a visual component, and the other you're sort of tapping into your imagination. Giving people something that is not just a pianist playing the music to look at is a way to help them gain an entry point into the music. But also along those lines and thinking about how to, how to reach our audiences more deeply and enrich the music more with more color, with more vibrancy, bring it to life a little bit more, I find that spoken word is also very important. So another interdisciplinary project that I loved. Talk about curation. This was like the curatorial project of a lifetime. I got a $25,000 grant.

Oh my goodness.

To put on— I know, that was— that's some of the best development work I've ever done in my life. I know.

Which link? I want to find out.

I will— well, I'm happy to send it to you and to share it. And I'm finally getting to perform. This was in 2022 that I premiered it, and I'm getting to perform it again, uh, just from when people are listening, next month at the end of February at Wellesley College. And I'm very excited about a chance to perform it live again, but it is an hour-long work for film, commissioned film, also by Diana Weatherly, who is the videographer who did the Schumann and the Claire de Lune videos. She created a whole 3-chapter video, poetry that I hand-selected by contemporary American and sort of, you know, dash American. So I think there's one Chinese American poet in the mix, one Latino American poet, for example, and 4 commissioned works that I— by living composers that I commissioned. And the way that I curated the entire work was in the form of a requiem. So think Mozart's Requiem, Fauré's Requiem, all the different movements, I got translations of the texts and I fit the music and the poetry and the film into those movements of the traditional Requiem as we know it, except it was obviously contemporary. And it was meant to create a space for reflection, catharsis, deep healing, really. After 2020, 2021, 2022, now 2024, for those of us, you know, any, anything that we're sort of, you know, the, the challenges, the, the socioeconomic, the life, the life, personal life challenges have continued, right? There's just a lot of stuff, hard stuff happening in our lives right now. And this was just meant to, through art, help give give people something to grab onto to say, ah, that resonates with me. That's all I was looking for, that resonates with me. And so to do that, I wanted to have a visual component, a spoken word component, and a musical component. And I mean, that was— it was so much fun to do because I created this big program booklet with all the texts and all of the— both the poetry and the texts of the Requiem movements. And fun also, as you can tell, what I like to do is to marry old with new. And to say even these— an old sacred form can have relevance in the way that we think, heal, process today. So I am a proponent of interdisciplinary work until it gets to the point— I mean, it can be complicated. It can be—

I'm sure—

administrative and management perspective, very, very, very, very, very tricky. But often worth it in the way we're doing it.

That's the creative part of being the pianist, right? Yeah. Yeah.

That's right. And the soul performer really is getting to— so, but worth it.

I want to talk about the legacy, right? So I know you're still very young, but where do you see the classical music world in 10 years and where do you want to be in 10 years? So I know baby is coming. So the next 10 years—

I'll have a 10-year-old. That's right. I'll have a 9-year-old.

Can you imagine?

No. Oh my goodness.

But what gets you excited about that, thinking of that ahead of time?

I get a little nervous at the same time that I get excited for the classical music world. I hope it gets a little bit easier for people. A lot of people in a lot of pain right now. You know, I just read an article that was in I Care If You Listen, and I was tagged. The reason I listened to it was because Anthony, one of Anthony's pieces from my album, he was mentioned, and then my piece was tagged in it, and you're able to play it directly from the article. But one of the sentences that stuck out to me is that it was surrounding this conference for Black artists artists, I believe in particular, but maybe more generally artists that composer George Lewis hosted in Berlin. And, um, this composer by the name of Devon Russell Gray wrote this article and talked about how, where we've come and the experience of being at this conference and, and, and what's next maybe. And the sentence that stuck out to me was, Classical music is still— has still not nailed creating a safe space for women and people of color. And that I believe that wholeheartedly. And safety, safety has a lot of connotations to it, but I don't, as we talked about at the beginning, I'm not telling people that have stake in my future career that I'm pregnant. Because it's none of their business, and because I'm afraid of what that could mean for my future career. So I don't feel entirely safe right now, so I can only imagine how my, my fellow creators who are LGBTQIA+, particularly trans at this time, um, because of what's happening politically, and, uh, people of color, how they feel. I wouldn't feel safe if I were them either, because I already don't feel safe as a woman. And a Jewish woman, I should also say. Um, it's a, it's a weird time. It's a weird time to be, um, a Jewish creator. And it's a weird time to, to be saying that because it's 2024. I should be able to do what I want as a woman. I mean, I can vote. I can, but also really, that's the bottom line. I can vote. Therefore I should be able to. Classical music, and I don't. So, um, I really hope— I'm going to talk about my hopes rather than where I see it going, because I don't know where I see it going right now, and I'm a little nervous about that. I hope that classical music spaces become safer for those of us that don't feel safe. Um, and that means feel safer for those of us that stand up and talk about, um, racial issues, trans issues, you know, issues that imbue our our actual, our human concerns with our artistic practices, which I'm one of those, I think. But I also really hope that we continue to recognize that classical music isn't dying, but that there's a lot competing with classical music and that part of the work is bringing audiences to our work. Giving them a reason to be excited. And that's a job I think for some of the big organizations. And I challenge big organizations to do better in the way that they are creating audiences because they're the ones with the money and the power. They're the ones with the money and the power. But if the New York Philharmonic figures out how to do a better job drawing audience, and I don't know actually that they're struggling with ticket sales, I'm using that because that is the orchestra of America, right, in many ways. If the New York Philharmonic does a better job of bringing audience in, that's only going to help me, and that's only going to help the pianists who are following my footsteps. But in terms of my own legacy, especially now, I hope that young women who are 10 to 15 years behind me have an easier job and feel more empowered earlier on to do this. That's what I was going to say earlier when I was talking about higher ed. There's really still no safety in higher ed. You know, where we think there is safety for us, where we think there is stability, there's not anymore. In Haydn's day, it was the courts. In Bach's day, it was the churches. And today we like to think about it as being institutions of education, but really those places are cutting arts jobs just as quickly as anybody else is, and there's no safety there. And so I feel just as safe being a classical concert pianist as I do having a full tenure-track job because it's not in my hands if I get to keep that job. You know, even tenure could go away, whereas I can still find places to play and audiences to play for. And I hope that my legacy is that by the work, through the work I'm doing, I'm making it easier for not just women, for everybody, but especially for women and female-identifying performers behind me to say, this is what I'm called to do. I don't know who's calling, but I'm being called to do it. And, um, and thank goodness that Claire Longendijk tried and succeeded or failed, however they looked at it, before so that I can model what I'm doing afterwards. And not just me, but other, other women who are doing it. I hope that that's my legacy. I really do.

Well, thank you. I think that captured pretty much, you know, that was like a good summary of our conversation. Thank you. Well said. So, um, I would like to promote your, um, upcoming concerts and events. So you have a single, um, yes.

Okay, so when Schumann is released, it will be released as an audio single on all streaming platforms, Spotify, Apple Music, etc. I'll put it on Bandcamp as well, and also the video will be on YouTube.

Great.

And then Carnegie Hall is in January, January 24th at 8 PM at Weill Hall.

And then there are so many more concerts coming up, so the best way is to check out your website, right? clairelongendijk.com, and all the links are listed in the show notes. Well, this has been a really inspiring and such a fun conversation. Thank you so much.

I was looking so forward to this, and it exceeded all of my expectations. Really? Oh my gosh, this was so much fun.

Oh, it's been really fun. So before I let you go, we have one more thing to do. It's called the Piano Pod Rapid Fire Questions.

And are you nervous about this one?

Yeah. So you're well prepared. That's great. So let's get to it. Question number 1: What is your comfort food?

Buffalo chicken wings, especially right now. Pregnancy cravings are real. Buffalo chicken wings. Oh yeah, really?

Okay, great.

Yep.

How do you like your coffee? Oh, maybe you're not being able to drink coffee now. Oh great. How do you like your coffee in the morning?

A woman has to survive. I drink less coffee. Um, I drink my coffee right now. I drink like half a cup of coffee because when you're pregnant you're not supposed to drink less. Um, and then a lot, a lot— it's, I say, camel colored with, uh, soy milk or oat milk, whatever's available.

Great. Now, are you a cat person or dog person?

I'm an animal person. I have 2 cats and I have 170 pounds divided by 2 dogs. I have 2 big dogs, a Bernese Mountain Dog who is 21 months old by the name of Zuzu. She's my heart and joy. She is everything. She's a snuggle bug. And then I have a very hardheaded German Shepherd Lab mix, Petey. Who was our first dog. These are my first dogs, but my husband and I had our first dog together, um, who is, uh, 2 and a half and, uh, a hardhead.

Right. Love him. My sister's family has the name, a dog named Petey.

Yeah, it's a cute name. His full name is Sweet Pete. We named him like a, like a horse, you know, they have long names, but, um, he goes by Pete.

Oh, okay. Sunrise or sunset?

Sunset.

Summer or winter?

I'm usually asleep at sunrise. Uh, summer.

Summer. What skill have you always wanted to learn but haven't had a chance to?

How many pianists have said this? To improvise.

Oh yes, I wish I could.

I wish I could. Oh, you still can.

Yes, still can. Yes, we are emerging artists, right?

Yes, that's right.

What is your word or words to live by?

Practicing will make it better.

What is the most important quality you look for in other people?

Vulnerability.

Name 3 people who inspire you, living or dead. You're prepared.

I am. Number 1, Serena Williams. She had a baby and then she came back and won. I don't know what the tennis competitions are, but she won all the competitions. She won all the things. And that is my goal, to be the piano goat. That's my goal. Serena Williams, number 1. Number 2, not just because of your wonderful podcast with her, but because she is truly the GOAT of classical piano, Sarah Davis Buchner. And number 3, my brother— I'm going to cry— Willem Longendijk, because he's an inspiration and amazing.

Wonderful. Well, thank you for sharing. Yes, Sarah Davis Buchner was great. She's amazing.

She's amazing. And I just saw her in Indianapolis. I got to meet her for the first time. I've corresponded with her, but I saw her do "Of Pigs and Pianos," which is her solo. Her solo show. And, um, oh my gosh, you know, they had to cancel one of the two shows. I was so disappointed by Indianapolis audiences. But she— I mean, talk about vulnerability— got up on stage and bore her soul, bared her soul for all of us. And, and then play— sits down and plays. And I mean, there is no better pianist right now. There's no better pianist. She's amazing.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Is that it? Did I do it?

Uh, yeah, well, two more, two more. Okay, name one piece in your current playlist.

Uh, Amy Beach Variations on Balkan Themes. I can't escape it.

I love your performance, by the way.

Yeah, it's— what a piece of music. Yes, thank you.

Now last one, fill in the blank: music is blank.

Healing.

Thank you. So that wraps up this episode of The Piano Pod with a heartfelt Thanks to you, Claire, for joining us today and sharing your incredible stories, insights, and expertise with such authenticity and joy, which is our theme of the season. To our wonderful audience, you can learn more about Claire and her work by visiting her website at clairelongendijk.com. And of course, thank you to our faithful fans and listeners for tuning in today. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumb up, thumb up for this, uh, YouTube, uh, clip, but also Also, don't forget to share and review this episode on your social media and tag The Piano Pod. It's one of the best ways to help us grow, and we'd love to hear from, from you with your feedback. For the latest piano news and updates, be sure to follow The Piano Pod on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and LinkedIn. I will see you for the next episode of The Piano Pod. Thank you, Claire.

Thank you, Yukimi. This was wonderful. Thank you.