Season 6 Eps. 14: "The Infinite Staircase" feat. GRAMMY-nominated Pianist Han Chen

Florence Price Piano Concerto was written in 1934, and it was believed that the full score was lost for a long time until 2019 that they recovered the her abandoned house. It was quite exciting for all people who love her music to finally reconstruct the original score. But it's actually clearly in 3 sections. Each section has different feel, like the classical style, which has fast, slow, and fast structure. The first movement is kind of like late romantic style, and the middle section is the call and response between the piano and the oboe, and the last one is a juba dance, which is quite exhilarating.

Welcome to another episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song with Yukimi Song.

This season, we are exploring creativity and connection, highlighting artists who are not only exceptional performers but who are also actively reshaping how classical music is experienced, programmed, and built. Today's guest is pianist Han Chen. Han is one of those artists who doesn't just perform at a high level; he builds. From Beethoven's Hammerklavier to the complete Ligeti Etudes, he's taken on some of the most demanding works in the repertoire while also creating projects that push beyond the traditional recital format. He was recently nominated for the 2026 Grammy Award for Best Classical Instrumental Solo for his recording of Florence Price's Piano Concerto in One Movement, a piece he describes as "immediate, visceral, and something that really speaks for itself." His recording of Ligeti's Complete Études was selected by Alex Ross of The New Yorker as a notable classical recording of 2023. And it was actually during the pandemic, while living with these works, that a much larger idea started to form. That idea became Infinite Staircase, a project that began simply as a way to reconnect with composer friends and grew into a 36-piece program pairing Ligeti's 18 Études with 18 newly commissioned works. In this episode, we talk about that process, what it means to follow an idea before you know where it will lead, how curiosity shapes his work, and why, for him, music is not separate from life but part of it. Before we begin, thank you to our listeners for supporting The Piano Pod. Your engagement helps sustain this growing community of artists and thinkers.

Here is Season 6 of The Piano Pod with concert pianist Han Chen. Please enjoy the show. You are listening to The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song, where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry about how they are bringing the piano into the future and thriving in a complex, ever-evolving world. Han, welcome to The Piano Pod. It's such a pleasure to have you here. Where are you joining us from today?

Well, thank you for having me. I am in New York right now in my home.

Oh, great! Do you live in Manhattan or?

I live in Long Island City, Queens.

Oh, great! Yay! That's a beautiful part of Queens. Yes.

Indeed.

Yeah, thank you so much for joining, and we actually had a chance to work side by side a few years ago. I don't know if you remember.

Yes, Piano Star competition.

Yes, as judges. Yes. Yes. It was fun.

It was a lot of fun.

Yes, and in what feels like a short time ago, but so much has happened for you and for your career, from Infinite Staircase to a Grammy nomination. Oh my gosh, congratulations.

Thank you so much. Thank you.

That's a huge deal, huge milestone as a musician. So I've been spending time, some time listening to your recordings, amazing recordings, and learning more about your recent projects, and then What strikes me is the scale and then the intentionality behind everything you do, not just as a concert pianist, but as someone shaping conversations through, you know, programming, commissioning. All of that leads beautifully into my first question, which is about the foundation of your artistic world. With everything you've built and explored as a concert pianist, recording artist, curator and commissioner of new work? What is the driving force, meaning your mission and passion behind your work today?

Well, um, first of all, I love playing the piano. I think the love for the instrument and music is the— definitely the foundation for all musicians. And I am very lucky coming from a family where my mom was a piano teacher, so I was always surrounded by piano students, uh, with people loving the music. And my mom also did different jobs. Like, she was temporarily a radio host for a classical music thing, and for a very, very short period of time. So she liked to talk about music, to show me all different kinds of music, and she's just really passionate. And I grew up in that environment where that music is part of our lives. So we would go to concerts, we would practice. My sister is a violinist. It's just everything So natural to me. So I think from very early on, music is so essential in my life that I don't feel like it is something different from the life itself. It is part of life. So with that, I remember one special album that really influenced me a lot is when I was in high school, I listened to Maurizio Pollini's album. Where he played Boulez Sonata No. 2, which is a piece that I always admire, but I've never tried myself. In that recording, I was actually learning the Przyszka at the time, and I wanted to listen to other interpretations. And I turned on the CD, and I just let the CD keep playing. And then he played the Webern Variations and then the Boulez Sonata. And my mom shouted, that, "What are you listening to? Can you stop that?" And it was just a lot of fun. I mean, I was very curious. I'm still a very curious person. I love hearing music that I don't know. And that became something really driving me when I started to study music professionally, is to discover new things that I've never heard of before. And especially when I moved to New York to attend the Juilliard School, I was surrounded by so many great composers, and they were always exploring new ideas I have never thought of. So I like working with composers because I feel they are really doing something that is so current and so new, or just so innovative. It doesn't have to be groundbreaking, but just to have this idea and then you turn that into a piece of music, it's just so fascinating, this whole process. So then after graduation, I realized that I really like the idea of commissioning, and I started commissioning my friends to write for me, and then I like playing their music, and it's just naturally, you know, I never really thought about that is gonna be my artistic plan. It's just like what happened to me because I was surrounded by all these great composers.

And also, of course, with your curiosity, right? Yeah, yeah.

I feel that's very different from a lot of my colleagues because even when I was really young, I always like to play things I don't know. For example, in my school where I was studying at the Shanghai Conservatory, elementary school, middle school, high school, it's all one school, that we had technical exams. So you have to play etudes. You know, everyone plays— you have to play Chopin etudes, have to play Liszt etudes, and then blah blah blah, and then you can choose a free one. Most people will just do Rachmaninoff, you know, that's like the safest choice. But I was I was in a bookstore, a score store that I was just browsing around, and then I discovered the Ligeti Etudes, which I had never heard of as a, I think, a middle schooler at the time. I was like, what is this? And I opened a score and I couldn't understand a thing. I was like, what is this? I have to at least purchase that score first and then to— to figure it out. And luckily, my teacher at the time just graduated from the Manhattan School of Music and went back to Shanghai to teach, and he was really open-minded, and he let me play that one of the piece from the collection for my exam. I don't know how I did at the time, but, you know, that just opened a door for me to always explore new things.

Wow. So you just told me a lot of things about you, and you know, several years ago sitting right next to you, I just didn't realize how, you know, curious of a person you were. So I'm so happy that we're having this conversation. So, yeah, you mentioned the Gettys, but you know what, let's talk about your Grammy nomination, right? So, yeah, the 2026 Grammy Award for Best Classical Instrumental Solo for your recording of Florence Price's Piano Concerto in One Movement. Really, congrats! Oh my gosh, that's a huge, huge thing. And I've been listening to the album over the past few days, and including the violin concerto and other works by Florence Price, and then the concerto itself is incredibly compelling, of course. And there's so much such clarity and sweep and conviction in your playing. And so When you recorded it, then received the Grammy recognition down the road, and what did that mean to you personally?

Well, I was first approached by my label Nexus to record this concerto. They have been doing a series of her orchestral works in the past few years, so I think this was the fourth album that they put out of music by Florence Price. And they asked me whether I was interested. And at the time, to be honest, I didn't know her music. I had to listen to her music online, to listen to other music by her as well, not just the concerto, to understand what I was going to play. And, you know, at the moment I heard the concerto, I immediately fell in love. It is something that is so visceral that you listen to it and it gets into you. I remember I started practicing it and my mother-in-law was with us at the time and she could hum the melody after a few days. So that's that kind of music, you know, it's just so touching and so immediate that it gets to your heart. So I said yes, and I prepared for it. I went to record, but this whole time, I, you know, it's my 5th album, so I didn't think about— I didn't think that it would lead to something, you know, just like I keep recording music and recording music is fun, you know, and it's such great music. So I went and I met this conductor, John Jitter, who has been the one who recorded all of Florence Price's music. And he is very involved in the whole process of getting on the ballot of the Grammy and then to campaign for it and to talk to people about this whole thing. And he brought me in. He was like, "I was going to do this thing. Do you want to join me?" And I said, "Yes." I didn't know what that meant at the time. I just felt that we did a good recording of this. I want people to listen to it. So then the recording was released, and then we went to LA to play excerpts of it to make people realize that there's this album on the ballot, people should listen to it. And then we got the nomination. It just happened that way. And I was extremely lucky and grateful for this whole thing. Whole process felt really smooth and— It was like you put in the work and it happened. But in music, a lot of time it's not the way. You put in a lot of effort and you don't know what's going to happen. But this was really, really very lucky for me to get this for this recording. And I just came back from the ceremony half a week ago. It was a lot of fun at the Crypto Arena and the Peacock Theater. I got to meet so many great, great musicians there, a lot of composers, a lot of conductors, instrumentalists. It's just a lot of great minds coming together. So I was very lucky to be there, and I was also very honored because then the winner of my category was Yo-Yo Ma. And to just be in the vicinity of that name is just like a dream come true for me.

Yeah, but you know, nomination itself is already winning, right? You're the winner. So I really want to congratulate you. So bravo to you. Yeah, it's not only your talent, but also it's long years and years of training and dedication.

So yeah, it's almost, almost 2 years since we recorded this album. So that's how long this whole process took.

That's fantastic. You know, and this piece is also iconic. Like, you know, it was premiered in the 1930s and with Price herself at the piano. What a history and legacy. And how do you hold that legacy honoring her? Yeah.

Well, she is so cool. I love hearing about her. And you know that she went to the New England Conservatory where I also went to school. So I felt that legacy is part of my education. I love the fact that we went to the same school and stuff like that. But like you said, her concerto was premiered in the 1930s, and it was actually the— one of the most performed pieces of hers in her lifetime. So she played herself, she conducted, but also other people performed this work. It's just so popular at the time. It's a great work, has many different emotions. It has more songful first movement, but it also has a dance in the last movement. So you can fit into many different occasions. It could be a traditional classical concert. It could be a pop concert. It could be a lot of things. You know, it's just great music to be programmed, and if 17 minutes, it fits with other pieces. But the thing is that when Florence Price passed away, the score, the full score was lost. So people didn't have the access of the full score, but they had the Two Piano Arrangement. So people still had the— some people still knew about this piece. But they were just not performing it until, well, Trevor Weston was commissioned to reconstruct the orchestral part. But then in 2009, the Florence Price scores were rediscovered in her abandoned house in Illinois. And this whole resurgence of her scores became a big thing that people started to go through the, I think, some 900, scores to just to know what was in there. And then eventually the original full score was published. So that's the score we used in the recording. And I feel like to be part of this whole legacy of hers and to the story of discovering, it's just so— it's something that you cannot dream of. You cannot work hard towards. It's just like it happened that time. And then you join the force of this whole thing. And, you know, as a musician, we study music history all the time, and this is the kind of thing you want to be part of, you know? Like, it's not something that people can create. It's just— it's not a good thing because it was lost. But the resurgence, the rediscovering, is something as a musician you want to be part of. And I was just so honored to be part of this.

So when listeners hear your recording today, what do you hope they experience from your performance beyond the story surrounding the composer? What do you hope they actually hear in the music itself?

Well, as much as I love to talk about stories, because I mean, stories are great, I feel music has to speak for itself. And I feel this piece definitely speaks for itself. It doesn't I think the audience doesn't have to know the story behind it to appreciate it, to enjoy it, to be moved by the music. So I would just say, just listen to it and enjoy it as you like.

And I have been— I want to talk about your Infinite Staircase. Oh my gosh, this project, it happened 2 years ago, 3 years ago, something like that.

3 years ago.

But let's start from your recording of the Getty etchings. So, you know, I've been listening to the album on streaming, and then to master all 18 of them, those are the Getty feels almost— that itself is a huge milestone as a pianist. And what did it mean for you to live with and learn all these and record the complete Ligeti et Ius?

So they are so difficult. First of all, it all went back to the pandemic when it was shut down. Naturally, a lot of people lost what they were doing. I wanted to do something, although we were shut down, we were at home. And I discussed with my company, label company, and I brought up that the centenary of Ligeti was coming up, whether they were interested in doing an album of Ligeti's etudes. I mean, I was just like throwing out ideas, you know, it's just one of the ideas I threw out at them. And they picked up this one. And to be honest, at the time I only knew 2 or 3 etudes in my hands. I have played only 2 or 3. But to play 18, I didn't know what I was getting myself into. I was just like, okay, let's do it since there's nothing else to do. So I started learning it. And of course, I gave myself a lot of time. I think I prepared for almost a year before the recording. Happened. So I was just learning, practicing, learning, practicing. And I have to say, now looking back at it, I felt that these attitudes helped me through the pandemic because pandemic is such a difficult time for everyone, and especially for performing artists. You don't have a stage to go on to and you don't have— we love connecting with people. You don't connect with people. It's just playing the music. And, um, the difficulty of life was sort of, um, sort of getting better when you are facing something so difficult at the piano. Because I— every day I wake up, I do these etudes. It feels like the life is actually easier than what I was doing on with the League of TI2. So learning these pieces really helped me alive at a time that everything was not alive, literally. And then, you know, during the pandemic in New York, it was a little better, and then it got worse again, a little better, it got worse again. So I really felt that this wave that we were riding was pretty in sync with my feeling with the etudes. Like, some days I will feel good about them. I feel— some days I feel that these are impossible. I should have quit, you know? All the emotions and everything, it just transcended into my musical journey. And I felt that I was, again, lucky to have that because a lot of people were probably not having a thing to do, but me having something to hold on to was actually a good thing at a time. I would say that if were not the pandemic, I wouldn't be doing this project, I guess. But this was really— I feel very, you know, happy to have done it. But again, I love connecting with people and As I said, I have so many composer friends surrounding me and all that. And it's always commissioning and everything. What did I do in the pandemic was that I also wanted to connect with people. And luckily, one of my— we're talking about Infinite Staircase. One of my friends, Nina Yan, the composer, she told me about the project she was doing. She was writing in pairs impaired to the Bach, uh, I think it was the Two-Part Invention, maybe the Two-Part and Three-Part. So for each invention and symphonetta, they found a composer to write, uh, in response to those pieces. And we were just chatting, I was like, maybe I'm playing 18 Ligeti etudes, maybe I can do the same thing. So she gave me the idea of commissioning 18 composers to write in response to these etudes, because that's what I was practicing. And if I were to invite someone to do something related to what I was doing. That's the way to do it. And so I started writing to my friends. I started to connect with them. It's like I was thinking in my mind that it's actually a great excuse to reach out to people. I don't want to be the creepy person just emailing out of the blue saying that, oh, I miss you, can we talk? Or no, but I— yes, I use that as an excuse to reconnect with my friends and also make new friends because I then had to find more composers on board for the 18 Etudes. And when I was reaching out, I didn't know where I was going to perform them, what I was going to do with them, or whether I was going to record them or anything. I had zero idea. I was just like, I got to ask first. And it's part of my personality. I'm not sure about you, but I'm always the person that I do things first, and if it doesn't go through, I would just forget about it. So I was actually having that mindset. I was just like, let's try, and if it doesn't work, then never mind. But then surprisingly, all the composers said yes to me. I mean, they were so— they were probably bored at home as well, but they were so generous to be part of this project, to do this. I was paying very little at the time. I also didn't have a promise of a venue to perform, but they just like said, "Sure, I will write you something." So I asked each of them to just write me something, 2 to 3 minutes in response to the etudes. And here I had a project. And after that, I started to look out for people who would be producing the concert, a venue, and then a donor and everything. It was just like things came after the project was formulating. And so I now always tell people that you, if you have an idea, you just execute it first, even though you might not have the resource at a time. But if you really create something, things will follow. Well, at least for me, that was how it happened. I know it's not always the case, but I got lucky at the time that people really liked the idea. And there are just so many composers on board, so people really treated it as a very big project. But, you know, in my mind, it was just me connecting with my old friends.

But, you know, the idea of playing the Getty came from your youth when you were—

Right.

Right. And then that became the album and became this project. That's huge. That's something meaningful, right?

Yeah, it feels like it combined all my interests together.

Yeah. Then tell me exactly how you executed this project. Did it become an album or did it become a concert?

Yeah, so eventually I premiered all 18 new pieces at the National Sawdust, Brooklyn on September 24th, 2023. That is the premiere concert. Where I played all Ligeti etudes and the 18 commissioned pieces. And I just recorded all of them last year, the 18 new pieces, and it will be probably released next year in 2027. It's just we are editing it right now. So it's actually pretty much still in my life right now to listen to all these works and to read the scores that they wrote, to go back to emails that we wrote to each other. It's just a lot of fun. And I also perform these pieces, a selection of the pieces in my recitals when I go to different places to perform. I choose the pairs, or maybe I just play the new pieces, and that way I get to play them in different occasions. And, you know, it's a kind of project that is so cool when you put all together. But it's also very cool to pick out individual pieces to see what the composers were thinking, you know? And you can see that it's so different. Everyone approached this project so differently, and it's just so cool to see. Because, you know, you wouldn't be able to see that if you don't have a— I'm calling it a foundation. Like the Ligeti Etude is the foundation, right? You have to give them this foundation, but how they deal with this, so different. I mean, when I was commissioning them, I explicitly said that I don't want them to feel limited by this etude, that they could do whatever they want. So you can see that some of them really just not— really not doing anything with it, or trying to draw more extra musical idea from the etude. But some of them use literal quotation from the work and then develop a complete new piece out of it. So yeah, it's just so fascinating. You know, composers are so much fun.

Yeah. Wow, that is fascinating. And so 18 different people. And so how did— so each one of them were paired with one specific Ligeti?

I asked them to tell me which one they want to be paired off, but I said whoever comes first gets to choose. So I gave them a little urgency there. So yeah, most of them got what they wanted, but there are a couple of the more popular ones that they didn't get.

So yeah, first comes first served, right? That's amazing.

There's no better way.

Exactly. That's great. So wonderful. But maybe tell us a little bit about those 18 composers. Maybe, you know, on top of your head, I don't know if you can name all their names, but maybe their backgrounds, like nationality.

Yeah, most of them are my friends, and they are from all different places, just like your classmates at Juilliard. They're all from different places. Um, let me think. Well, um, there are of course American composers, but there are also Chinese composers, Korean composers, Iranian composers in there. And yeah, it's just all different. But, you know, I really didn't think about that when I was asking them. I was just asking whoever came to my mind, you know. And we'll talk about one of these Chinese composers, very cool. Meng Wang, who is now teaching at Venice, I think. She was very interested in— many different things, but one of them is the theatrical aspect of performance. So she had me stand up and use a pick, a guitar pick, to pluck the strings. And she created this effect that is more like a Chinese instrument, yangqin, kind of effect. So I was playing the keys and then I pluck the string and I play the key, I pluck the same string and I keep playing like that and it just creates a very zen feeling. And I was actually reaching over but also with my hand down there and standing up and it looks like I was hugging the piano. And then I have to move around and stuff like that. It's almost like a dance. So it's very cool because I'm not the best person to use the whole body. I'm not that coordinated and everything. And, you know, my foot really hurt in the performance because I had to stretch so far to reach the strings and stuff. But yeah, but it was fun. It was just like you can see that different composer has different idea of music, and that was totally out of my comfort zone, but I still loved it.

Right. Wow. Wonderful. So to perform all 36 Did you go like this, one Ligeti and then one paired composer, or how did you program?

That was my original idea, and I realized that the music doesn't flow that well. Eventually we came up with 6 sets. Every set has 6 pieces in them, and ideally all 6 are pairs, but I don't go with the order. I go with how the music develops, so I still want to create narrative out of this program. So it may be that I play 3 Ligeti etudes and then I play 3 commissioned works, or I do in pairs but then flip order and stuff like that. It all depends on how the music connect with each other in between. And all 6 sets, I was working with this Metropolis Ensemble based in New York that they had this great idea that they commissioned another sound designer or composer that he created electronic backdrops in between sets. So at the beginning of the concert, I walked out on stage and I start playing the first set. After I play first set, I stay seated at a piano and the light dims and then electronic electronic music for 1 minute, and I rest. And when the electronic music finishes, the light comes back on and I play the second set, and then so on. So I never leave the stage. I keep playing all 36, but in between sets I have 1 to 2 minutes of breaks where they play electronic music in the background.

Wow.

Because we want to be as compact as possible. We don't want people— I leave, people clap, I come back, clap again. It's just wasting a lot of time and it's such a long program. Eventually the whole thing was— it's not that long after all. It was about 2 hours-ish, 2-hour-ish, something like that. But because of course there are still breaks and stuff like that and then clap at the beginning and the end and talk and it's a lot of things. So I thought that was the best way to, you know, just do it in a sense.

Wow. But oh my goodness, you have to really have the stamina, the endurance. Yeah, it was, yeah, yeah.

And now I want to thank the composers because they didn't really give me that hard of a time, you know. A lot of them are writing pieces where I could breathe, so that was really good. Ligeti didn't give me breath.

So that's so difficult. And even like in your Ligeti album, you didn't do it in order, right? Like, yeah, Book 1 came and then Book 3 or 2 came and I don't remember exactly.

Book 1, Book 3, Book 2, I think. But in concert, because I have played all 18 etudes in one concert, the best way for me is to do Book 3, Book 1, Intermission and Book 2. It's just because Book 3 starts a little easier, and so you warm up. And then Book 1 ends so well. Book 1 is actually designed to perform as one piece by Ligeti. So one, number 1 to number 6, Etudes. The end of number 6 is a great, you know, piece to end the first half. Then Book 2 is the longest. It just stands itself for uh, so half. Yeah, so I think that's my concert order, but in the recording we started with Book 1.

Yeah, then so let's go back to this title, the Infinite Staircase. All right, I'm sure the staircase comes from the famous Devil's Staircase, correct? By Ligeti etude. And so infinite, I love that. So the Possibilities are infinite, I guess.

Yes, infinite. It comes from the next attitude by Ligeti, number 14. Um, what is it called? Infinite Column, I think. Yeah, and those two pieces are the hardest ones in the Ligeti sets, so I chose both words from the two attitudes. The funny thing about the No. 14 Etude is there's actually a second— this is the second version. There are two versions of this piece, 14 and 14a. 14a is actually the original one. Ligeti wrote the original one first, and it was too difficult to perform, so he had to come up with the easier one. But then the original one became the one that he put on player piano, so an automatic piano could play because there's so many notes. But then people started playing them and I was asked, you know, when I was proposing this whole project, Nexus was like, can you also do 14/8? I didn't know at the time. I was like, okay, sure, why not? And so that one is the most painful one to do. But I don't do that in concerts. Yeah, that only exists in my recording and I'm glad to not play it again.

But you did it. You did it in a recording. That's amazing.

That was a lot of fun. Thanks to my engineer who is, you know, a magician. He could do anything.

So then, you know, how do you envision from here? So now that I was about to ask, you know, what happened to those commissioned works, then you said you recorded. So do you have now any more ideas or vision about this whole Infinite Staircase project?

Yeah, I do want to play more the— not only the Ligeti etudes, but also the commissioned works. I feel that when the album comes out, it will help the composers to be heard by more audience. And hopefully people will be talking about this project again so that people would listen to them and to get to know all the composers and to know their work, not just the ones they wrote for the Infinite Circuits, but in their career that they are doing so many great things. And I'm also commissioning more works. So I hope that things will fall through. And it's just always the timing and the budget and everything is always the most difficult part. It's harder than playing the piano. Trust me. So, so, uh, yeah, it always takes a lot of time, but I'm always hopeful that things will happen.

You mentioned about a little bit about your childhood, and then so you grew up in Taiwan, your mother is a piano instructor and so on. So I'm curious to— can we revisit your childhood? Because it's, it's so fantastic, you know, coming from that background But was there a moment when music suddenly shifted? Oh, this is something I want to do and just meant something.

Yeah, there's a very personal experience to me that I had a very close friend in my middle school that we always hang out and everything. And we always like to go out to play. But as you know, like, you need to practice. And at the time I was preparing for this competition, it was actually my first time coming to America for a competition in Phoenix, Arizona. I was probably 12 or 13. And then I was— that day I was supposed to be practicing at home and But my friend asked me to go out with them to go play, and I forgot what we were going to do. But I remember vividly that they got really angry at me, saying that, "Do you really love piano so much? Like, are you really gonna be a pianist or what?" It's very funny because we're all so childish. It's just like the way they said it made me really think about it because I didn't have to think about it. For all of this time. I was just practicing, studying, and I went to music school. I went into music school from grade 3. So it's just so natural that everyone else was doing this and I didn't have to think about it. So when they asked me this question, I was like, oh, like, are there any other choices? Like, can you not be a pianist? I was like, I didn't even think about that. But at the time, I was just like, angry, sad that of course, yeah, I'm going to win this competition, blah, blah, blah, which I didn't. But anyway, I went back to practice and everything, and it just made me start to think about it. And I just realized that music is a good thing. And every day I sit in front of the piano, of course, like all All, every— like everyone, we hate practicing, but still practice makes me— practice actually makes me relax mentally, not like physically or psychologically, because you suffer. Yes, but, but if I don't practice, I suffer more. I realize— I don't know, just like as long as I know today I practice, I feel better about myself. I feel like accomplished something. Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, so that accomplishment, the feeling of that you did something, it's not easy to get. Then afterwards I realized, only recently I realized, a lot of people, they do so many things in their lives but they feel not accomplished. And I think playing the piano is the way for me to feel accomplished, accomplishment. So I feel that is actually a given a giving that— how do I say, um, it is a gift not everyone has. And since I already had it this whole time, I feel I might as well keep playing the piano. I hope that makes sense. It's not because that I think my career is so great that blah blah blah. No, I actually feel that, um, everyone's career is difficult and there's no one has having a perfect career or anything, but it's just because that playing the piano itself gives me a sense of accomplishment that helped me through this whole time. So I decided when I was going to music school I was gonna do music, so that never changed. Even though there are times where I feel like I will not be able to just play the piano and survive, I still think that I would just play the piano. Because anything else I do, I don't feel satisfied. So I feel that if this is a young person who listens to this podcast and think that they want to know whether they want to choose this career, just ask yourself whether you could live without it. That's my answer.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, thank you for sharing that. Now, was your mother your first teacher?

Thankfully, no.

No, thankfully no.

Yeah, she knew, she knew from the very beginning that she would not hold herself well if she became my teacher, and she had her colleague teach me at the beginning. And very early on, she sent me to teacher at the local school, um, local music department for pre-college, so I could— in Taiwan— so that I could you know, have a more formal training because she never— my mom never went to conservatory and she studied piano on her own. In fact, that she really wanted to become pianist herself, but her dad didn't allow her and her dad was against piano study because we didn't— they didn't have much, much money at the time and he didn't want to spend money to buy a piano and to send her to lessons and stuff. So she had to go to actually save money and go to lessons herself. So she really loved piano. And funny thing was that when my dad and my mom got married, their honeymoon was at the Juilliard School. What? There is this ESL English program every summer. I'm not sure whether it's still happening, but they had the Juilliard dorm as their dormitory for the summer school. So they picked that specifically that she could see what the Juilliard School looked like. So they did that for, I think, 2 weeks or 3 weeks at the dorm, and then they went on a road trip to the Niagara Falls in Canada and stuff like that, just like driving in. But the cruel thing is that they did that after I was born, so they didn't even take me there. I was just like with my grandparents at home, and they went on this honeymoon. Ever since that I was studying piano, she would tell me all the things she saw at the Juilliard. And I don't remember a lot of things, but one thing that she kept saying is that, you know, like, every student at Juilliard could play all Chopin etudes perfectly. You have to learn all Chopin etudes, stuff like that. And yeah, she was just like really loving it, but she never had that education. So she sent me to her colleague to study and then went to music school, but she was always was there when we practiced, so she was around, you know, that she would watch me and my sister practice.

But your— that vision was already in you, you know?

Yeah, I would say that this is a happy ending that I did end up at Juilliard. Otherwise, I think she will not be happy or anything, but, but yeah. After Taiwan, we moved to Shanghai because my dad was doing business in Shanghai. And so I went to the Shanghai Conservatory Elementary School from grade 4, and then middle school and high school. And it was there that I had this teacher that who just came back from New York, so they were more in tune with what was happening and how I should prepare and everything. So going to Juilliard was always like the the only path that they were thinking that they wanted that to happen. And when I got in, I think that they were all just so happy and so thankful. And after that, my mom rarely asked me to do anything anymore. It's like her job is done.

So you came to the United States officially, like moved to the United States as a college— for college. Yeah. Juilliard. Tell me more about that time, maybe the mentors, teachers you met.

Yeah, at the Juilliard School, I studied with Veda Koplinsky, and I think our time was the best time. I really miss the school time. I'm still living in New York, you know, but when you're at school, it's different feeling. And, uh, why I said that our time was the best time was because we didn't have any good system for practice rooms. Uh, that was the case for a lot— a long time, I know. But recently they became an online regis— uh, register system where you can book practice rooms online or at a kiosk or something. But at our time, you have to physically look for a practice room. And my favorite thing is when you cannot find a practice room and you go out with all your friends. Yes, you have a great excuse not to practice. So, so that was a great time. Uh, my teacher Vera was really, really supportive of whatever I did. Oftentimes I was caught up in the concerts I gave myself. Not that I had any, you know, goals or anything. I was just like trying out so many different things. So I would ask myself to do crazy stuff that is not aligned with traditional classical music study, and she was always fine with it. I cannot— I never asked her why, because she sometimes is pretty strict with other students that I know because I talk to other classmates. And for example, I have a classmate, she told me that Veda asked her to learn a new piece every week. She never did that to me. She knew I was already doing so many things. I was in the Axiom, which is the new music ensemble at the school. We do commissions. We do new music from 20th century, from 21st century. We have rehearsal, we have performances. I was doing Focus Festival where they do all the new music. I don't think it's existing anymore, but a lot of new music stuff. I was playing composers concert where I play my friends' pieces. I help them premiere and stuff like that. I was actually also taking composition lessons myself. I was interested in writing and everything. I don't really write anymore, but I I still do a couple things, but it's just like so interesting, so many different things, not the piano. I was not really doing the Beethoven or the Chopin or everything, which was fine. And until one day I told Vera that I was gonna do a recital at Paul Hall, and you know, Paul Hall is where, you know, all the big concerts happen for the students. I myself booked whole hall and created my own program. I was going to do all John Cage Sonatas/Interludes with prepared piano. And I talked to the piano technician department myself saying that I'm going to do that. Give me a piano I can ruin. I didn't say that literally, but they gave me a smaller piano where they are okay with me putting screws and all the plastics and everything inside the strings. And I dyed my hair blonde, I put on like weird clothes, and I went on, I played an hour long of John Cage. And because I was doing that at the time, I went to lesson and I told Vera that I didn't have anything to play for you, but if you come down to the pool hall, I can play the John Cage for you. So she never leaves her studio, you know, but she came down to Paul Hall with me to listen to me play John Cage. And now I think about it, when I look back, I was just so in awe of what— how open-minded she was and how rude I was.

No, no, I don't think you were rude, but that you have some guts.

I was, yeah, I had some guts. And I'm always the only student who would give like the weird request to the teacher, you know, like, come listen to John Cage and stuff like that. But, you know, I—

that's a great story.

Yeah, I really enjoyed my time there because everyone gave me so much freedom. I feel I didn't cause any trouble, I think, but I, but I think I did things that other people wouldn't do, other students wouldn't do.

So, but then who taught you John Cage? You just learned on your own?

I learned, I consulted with the conductor who were, who was already doing John Cage in their program. So I was asking, I also had a mentor who was doing a lot of new music at a time. It's just like there are people doing new music, but it's just not part of the curriculum. You know, you have to reach out yourself to people who have experience. With it. But after a few years of craziness, I still went back to more traditional stuff. I went to competitions. I did all that. I did all the competitions. I played all the classical stuff. I also, you know, had chamber music and concerto competition and stuff like that. So I would say that the school gave me a very well-rounded education, and also at the same time, I had the room to reach out to new things on my own.

And then your master's and beyond.

You still— right, I— well, I finished my master's at the Juilliard School, and that was actually the— so now we're getting deep here.

Yes.

So you realize that you will not have a career after you graduate. So at the time, I didn't know what to do, so I realized maybe I should go back to competitions. And I wouldn't say that's a stupid, um, decision because of course you do whatever you can do, but thinking about competition can give you a career is a stupid thing. But anyway, I went back. So I actually, after graduating my master's from Juilliard School, I took a year off and then went to New England Conservatory to do my graduate diploma, where my mind— in my mind was that I will just do competition in these 2 years. So I did that. I went to study with Ms. Wakambyeon, who is very well known in the competition field, as you can imagine. And, you know, Yun Chan was her student's student and stuff like that. It's just like a lot of great people coming out from competitions was related to her, so a lot of people wanted to study with her. So I played for her, she accepted me, and in those 2 years I was really doing competitions, was doing all that. But the thing is that I was still that same person. I was still doing crazy stuff. So I was actually living in New York, commuting to Boston to take lessons and come back because I already had some gigs here, like mostly new music composer-related gigs. So I didn't want to give that up, but I also wanted to study and then to go to competitions. I think I did okay in competition. I didn't win anything big, but I went to all the good ones, and she really taught me a lot. But she knew I was so into new music and stuff, so, you know, New England Conservatory has people coming in to give master classes, and one of them was Thomas Addis. Thomas Addis came, and I always loved Thomas Addis's music from very, very early on, and I was playing his music. I already met him in Music Academy of the West, but then I wanted to record all his music. So that was actually my third album was all Thomas Addis piano music.

Yes.

So I took the master class and Ms. Byung really helped me talking to Thomas Addis saying that, you know, this kid wants to record all his music. And so he gave me a private lesson afterwards and stuff like that. So in that sense that Ms. Byung was also very, very well aware that I was not going to do the traditional competition route. So she already thought that I could, you know, meet up with composers and then create projects and stuff like that. So she was also very encouraging.

I would—

I just— I always get to a lucky spot along the way that although I was in very tough spots, but then there's always one thing that I could hold on to.. And I think that's how I survived until today. There's always one thing that works. Yeah, I think that's enough.

But that's what you call being innovative and creative. No, you carve your own path.

You carve your own path. That really resonates with me because I think there's already no such thing as a traditional path as we think of being a pianist. Even when you are Yun Chang, for example, you have to do something, right? You have to have a project. You have to do maybe all Chopin or all Bach, or maybe even Yun Chang did a Thomas Addis piece, you know? And he also commissioned Korean composers to write for him in his recital. So it's just like, it's all so self-driven. Motivated this whole career thing. So you have to carve your own thing. So I really like that. So after that, after my graduate diploma, I came— I really came back to New York. I went to the CUNY Graduate Center, the City University of New York. And then I studied with Ursula Oppens, who is a very well-known figure in the new music field. She has commissioned all this pieces in the 20th and 21st century. And she really pushed me to do all the crazy projects that we were talking about, and she was never short of inspiration. So because, you know, looking at her project and then mine, it's like, it's nothing. She has done crazier stuff. So yeah, so whatever I did, she was just like always very supportive and then give me a lot of of vice and inspiration.

So I know, uh, you mentioned in the guest form, you know, I hand out the guest form to every guest so that I can learn more about each guest, and then, you know, uh, so that we can have a meaningful conversation. So you said you want to discuss about creative programming, so tell me Right.

Well, I think of programming as if you are curating a show in a museum. My second love will be museum with art history and paintings and stuff like that. So if I'm not practicing, I'm always loving to go to galleries and museums. I even, when I was at Aspen Music Festival, I was so bored at the festival. I mean, there's— it's a great festival. It's just like pianists still need to do orchestra stuff, and we did have a lot of time. And when I was not practicing, I was actually interning at the museum, in the local museum, Aspen Museum. So I did all that. This is all very fun. And to program a concert, first of all, I think music is the most important thing, of course. It's like how you play and how the music is. I'm not saying that you have to compromise that to come up with a great program. But after that, how you put the program together, this is so fun. There are many different ways to think about programming. But for me, I like to think that I'm giving my audience an emotional ride. So we are going through all different emotions, and then we arrive at a final destination, and I want you to have that when you go home. So first, I'm also very traditional in that sense. I feel like I like to have a culmination of a concert where it's like so crazy and loud and everything, but I also like to have a little low point, maybe a more serene part of the concert. So that is so different from the Infinite Staircase. But that's not true, because like I said, the Infinite Staircase composers does have pieces that's very, very slow and zen and very intimate and everything. So that's why I said that I didn't really do pairs, because I want to still have that flow of— up and downs in my program. And after that, you can start to think about you are a historian, where you can think about how things connect extramusically. So Ligeti was a way for me to connect with the new pieces, because if you just look at the 18 composers, it's really hard to draw that connection. But because they are all responding to Ligeti, that creates a— theme for this concert. But for example, the concert I'm playing at the Phillips Collection this March, that there is an exhibition happening at the Phillips Collection about Jeanne Moreau. And so the presenter and us, Roberta Michel, the flutist, and I are co-presenting this concert that we all think about how the musical circle was like, or the elite circle, the cultural thing was like when Miro was creating in Paris. So we had composers who lived in Paris at the time, from Vérez to Boulez to Stravinsky to Antal, all that, like all these composers around Miro. She put together a program. And it's just like fun to think about that, because we are not really thinking about we're not really thinking about his personal connections per se. We're thinking about more of the whole scene in large, and that gives the backdrop to the exhibition that the audience can listen to music from that time but also see the art from that time. It's just— I love that connection. It's so cool. And of course, we cannot do that without the collection having that exhibition. No, but others you can— I also like to think about programming just as like your treasure box. You just like always pull out your favorite pieces to play. And when I say that, I really am torn because people nowadays really think about programming as, um, a political output of like your ideology. I don't think that's the case. I think music is music because that transcends everything that you talk about. Not because that these things are not important, but because it can be transcended that these things are the same or equally important. So, you know, when I program, I really try not to think too much about what I have included in my program. I think more about if I am an honest person, that did I really include all my friends, like all the people I know here in New York? And did I really listen to all the music possible to appreciate them? Did I get to know enough about all these composers to understand what they are going through and what they could be representing? So those are the questions I ask myself. Rather than that I'm just including this because of blah blah blah, A and B and C.

And so you're thinking much larger concept, I guess. Now, so which do you like better, the traditional setting of concert halls or those kind of immersive spaces? Or it's not an either/or, I guess.

Right. I think it depends on the music as well. I feel concert halls are great because they are giving the audience a very concentrated mindset to listen to music. But the immersive ones are more, you know, it opens up different sense in you. So all that visual effect and everything is also so cool. But there are instances where that it cancels out itself. So it's a dangerous thing. I feel as musician, we should really focus on music. And if you are to incorporate the other aspects of senses, you should give that to other professionals to deal with it. So in my Infinite Stray Cats concert, we had lighting designers and electronic music designers. They all take care of that, so I don't need to worry about it. So that came out well. But I have in student times tried to do that myself and it was a total disaster, so I don't recommend it.

You can't do everything, right? Yeah, you totally can't. Now we're, you know, getting toward the end of our conversation, but I have just a few more. You built projects that feel forward-thinking, and what is your broader vision for the future of classical music as an industry?

Well, I'm too small to talk about the big future and everything that people talk about. But I like how a friend of mine always say that whatever you do is like a little drop in the bucket and it could overflow when everyone's doing that. I feel that classical music can reach more people if it gives the chance. For people to listen to them. And I recently came across with an article, I think it's a hot take, but Evan Schneider, a very, very great pianist and podcaster, you probably know that he had this article on New York Times about how classical music shouldn't change That's saying that maybe an orchestra shouldn't give out non-classical music to their goers or stuff like that. It's a really hot take, but I kind of like that because I am so privileged in New York. We have all this new music audience. I do crazy stuff. I can play 2 and a half hours new music and people come to listen to it. It's not the mainstream. I understand that. I'm also in love with classical music, of course. So whenever I do classical music, I just keep asking myself, like, why they had to listen to this. And for me, the answer is very easy because I cannot live without it. But for people who never, you know, listen to classical music, I feel they, they need a chance to get into this. Maybe a friend who listens to classical music, or maybe a podcast, a great podcast, people talk about classical music, or maybe a movie about classical music, or maybe something. But classical music itself is perfect. It doesn't need to change. It doesn't need to become viral. It doesn't need to become a 15-second thing, or it doesn't need to become— I don't know, just like to change the form. It's itself, I think it's not necessary. So that's the hot tech take. But how that can really, you know, build into the future, I don't know. But I try myself to really deliver the best I could, and I just hope that people would see the value in it.

Then, uh, what's coming up next for you as an artist? Uh, like, uh, new any next project maybe you can share with our audience?

Sure. My next album is coming out in May. I'm playing Anton Rubinstein's Sonatas No. 3 and 4. I have already recorded No. 1 and 2. Now I'm recording No. 3 and 4, which are less well-known romantic pieces, but really, really epic ones. Each one is like 30-40 minutes long, so it's crazy, but it's fun. It's, um, very Rubinstein if you know his music. And number 3 and 4 are one of the best. He himself performed them in his concerts throughout the world. He actually came to the United States to perform. I don't have the exact numbers in my head, but I believe he was here for 250 days. And he gave 235 concerts, sometimes 3 concerts a day. And I'm not talking about the recitals nowadays. He gives concerts that's 4 hours long. And yeah, he's a character, and he's a great— um, he's a very important figure in the classical music world because he opened like this conservatory. He gave he conducted, he did so many things to make classical music the way it is nowadays. So I think it's great to be recording his music. I'm very excited for this to come.

Great. That's coming in May 2026. And how about those 18 commissioned pieces? When are they coming?

I believe that should probably be in 2027. That'll be the next year after we edit the pieces and then mastering. That will take a while. I just finished recording, so we'll see.

Then in the meantime, you'll be performing live a lot. Yes.

March, I'm going to Dallas, going to Washington, DC. In April, I'm going to Santa Barbara and then Sarasota, Florida. And the next season will come out later, so I cannot wait to share with all of you.

And you'll be performing Ligeti Etudes in those programs, and then some of the commissioned pieces as well?

The Ligeti, yes. Commissioned pieces, not yet.

Okay.

Hopefully more next year.

Yes. Wonderful. So for our listeners, if you would like to learn more about Han's work and then would like to be in touch with him, please visit hanshengpiano.com. That's your website, right? Yes. Is there anything else you want to talk about before we go to the rapid-fire questions?

Rapid-fire question. Okay, yeah, let's talk about— go listen to Florence Price.

Yes, that's right. So, you know, all the recordings— so we talked about, uh, not only the Gary Edgeworth, but also the Florence Price's Piano Concertos, Thomas Addis, and Rubinstein.

They're all available on all streaming platforms.

That's right, and I will list the links in the show notes as well. Great, so before I let you go, we have this tradition, The Piano Pod rapid-fire questions.

Now I'm nervous now.

Oh yes, we take this segment very seriously. You've shared your story expertise today, but these questions, carefully curated by our team, which is me, will give our listeners a glimpse into who you truly are. So let's do this. I want you to answer them, each question, as short a response as possible. No explanation is necessary. Okay. All right.

Yeah.

Number 1: What is your comfort food?

Donut.

Good. Oh, that's a first one. That's cute. How do you like your coffee in the morning? Black. Cats or dogs?

Both.

Both. Yes. Sunrise or sunset? Sunset.

I cannot get up.

Thanks for getting up this morning. Summer or winter?

Winter.

Winter. Even despite of that frigid cold temperature we had?

Stay home, practice.

Yes, that's right. Now, next level. What skill have you always wanted to learn but haven't had a chance to?

Wake up early.

Wake up early. Okay. What is your word or words to live by?

Honesty.

Good one. Favorite venue you have ever performed in, or maybe dream venue?

Oh, that's tough. Ah, National Sawdust. That's where I did my Infinite Staircase.

Perfect. What is the most important quality you look for in other people?

Honesty.

Name a composer you wish more people knew about.

Florence Price.

Oh yes, amen. All right, 2 more. Name one piece in your current playlist.

Doesn't matter, it doesn't have to be It doesn't have to be classical or contemporary.

It can be pop.

I usually listen on YouTube. I just listened to the Choral Fantasy by Beethoven.

Oh, wow. Beautiful. I need to listen to that.

Exactly. That's a piece we all need to listen to.

Fantastic. Great. Now, last one. Fill in the blank. Music is blank.

Music is life.

Beautiful. Han, thank you so much for joining us today, for sharing—

thank you for having me.

Oh, was fun. You're sharing your artistry, vision, and thoughtful reflections. To our listeners, be sure to check out his Grammy-nominated recording of Florence Price Piano Concerto in One Movement, as well as his mesmerizing and daring recording of the complete Ligeti et Chus, and as well as so many other recordings, both available on all major streaming platforms. You can also find more information about his recordings and upcoming projects on his website at anshenkiano.com and across his social media platforms. You are active on social media, right? Yeah. Great. You can find all the links in the show notes. Thanks for spending this time with us. For our listeners, if this conversation resonated with you, please like this episode, and subscribe to the channel. I'd also love to hear your thoughts. Leave a comment, share this episode on social media, and tag us @ThePianoPod with Yukimi Song. We'll see you for the next episode of The Piano Pod with Yukimi Song. Thank you, Han.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.