Marriage Therapy & Pickleball - Courageous Conversations - Session Two

Let's jump back in. I want to pick back up and tell you guys a fun little story. So I asked— I love AI, by the way. I love all the platforms. I'm like, I'm like, experiment with all of them. But I asked AI to generate an image of my extended family. Okay. And I said, generate an image of my extended family gathering together for a holiday meal. Okay. Now, my family is mostly rural, blue-collar, you know, agricultural type of settings. Many of them live in like the East Tennessee areas of like Grainger County, Union County, like that kind of places, right? So you guys maybe can kind of get a picture. And I, you know, I live a pretty different life than a lot of my family. But I do tell you that I love and adore them all. And if a zombie apocalypse happened, I would definitely go to where they're all gathered because they're going to be the ones that survive it all. Okay. But what I asked about the picture was when my family gathers for a gathering, especially on holidays, like it's a gathering. So I'll give you an example. My mom, she has a just a quaint, you know, 3-bedroom home. But on Thanksgiving, the whole family comes to our house, okay? And give me an idea. When I say whole family, shout out a number that you think might be there. Keep going. 75, okay? 75 people are at our house. Now, that's like that culture, right? Like, we just— we're just going to gather, right? And there's love, there's There's laughter, lots of casseroles. You know, and there's people that we all love and cherish there, and we love and cherish them because they are family, right? So here's the thing I want you to think about is I also work with a lot of organizations, and I find it interesting that in these organizations, and maybe this applies here, maybe it doesn't, in these organizations, organizations or the teams will also call themselves a family, right? Now, and I thought about this for like 20 years, like, I'm like, like, like, that dynamic is just weird. I'm always like thinking about words and what things mean, what they don't mean. And here's the— here's what I wrestle with. And some of this may resonate with you. What I wrestle with is that like, the 75 people that are at my mom's house on Thanksgiving, There are people there that I love and adore as family, but I would never hire them to work with me on a team. Like, you know, Crazy Uncle Joe, like he's not working for a company I work for, right? Like, you know, there's just some stuff there because like they're family. I love Crazy Uncle Joe, but like he's Crazy Uncle Joe for a reason, right? So the problem is is here's what I would actually think about is that at work, if we only think of ourselves as a family, and I'm not telling you to do away with that, but if we only think of ourselves as a family, then we tend to, I'm going to say the words, over-tolerate situations and things because like we're just like, "Oh, that's just family." Right? But if we see ourselves, and here's the invitation. The invitation is to not do away with family but to see yourself also as a a team, because a team has standards, goals, objectives, things that you're working on together, right? So in the spirit of thinking about ourselves as a team, what better way for us to be a team than to play pickleball? Okay. Now, a few years ago, my wife and I had all 6 kids at home. And we were— we live about 30 minutes outside of Knoxville. And all of our kids were starting to get old enough to where they either were riding with their friends or driving. And all of a sudden, they were all like driving to more of like the urban areas of Knoxville and like the suburbs of Knoxville to like hang out with their friends. And so my wife and I, we were like, how can we manipulate our kids into being home more often? Okay. And so we're like, brilliant idea. Let's build a pickleball court at our house. Okay. This will be good. So, so being the impulsive and psychotic parents that we are, we literally decided that we were going to build this pickleball court inside of our barn. Okay, so this is our barn. We're gonna build inside our barn. We personally installed this thing. Okay. Got the court, basketball court, all this, and this court is legit. Do you guys play pickleball? Okay, couple folks. All right. So this court is legit. So Regulation size, high-quality paint, net, equipment. The barn even has lighting so you can play at night. And since we installed the pickleball court a few years ago, guess how many times someone has played pickleball on the pickleball court? I think maybe 7 times. Okay, yeah, I think maybe 7. So in other words, horrible idea, horrible investment. Don't ever do this to your own property. Okay. But if you're ever out near my home and you want a free game of pickleball, stop by anytime. Yeah, it'll be there. And I'm confident nobody will be playing so you can have it all to yourself. But in the middle of all this, because I was not familiar with pickleball, we also had to learn some things about pickleball itself, the sport, game, all that stuff. And as I was learning about pickleball, it actually gave me some ideas about how the rules of pickleball and the pickleball court could maybe help leaders and communicators be better at these courageous conversations. So that's what I'm gonna share with you. So when someone does or says something, and it doesn't just feel perfect, like it wasn't just like, it wasn't— they weren't mean, they weren't malicious. But it wasn't just like, hey, this isn't best. It's not great. It's not helping us as an organization be the best. There's 3 things that are going on. So you've got why they did it, so their motive, their intent, the thing that they did, and then the impact of it on you and others, right? So why they did something, what they did, and the impact on you or others. So those are the 3 dynamics. Now, here's what I want you to think about and visualize in your head as we move forward. Think about these 3 things as 3 different sections of the pickleball court, okay? So you've got the other person's side of the net is the person's motive or their intent. You've got the net itself, which is the action, behavior, the thing that you observe, the thing that you experienced. And then you've got your side of the net, which is the impact that that thing had on you and others, right? So those are the 3 kind of pieces of the court. I realize the pickleball court's a little bit more complicated than that, but we'll keep it simple. So those are the 3 things. So here's what I want you to appreciate is that the court has 3 realities. The other person's intent, which by the way, they're the only ones that know why they did something, right? Is it's their— you've got, you've got the other person's intent, you got their behavior and its impact. And what I want you to think about is our side of the net is the impact that the thing has on us. And then the net is like the action, the behavior, the observation, right? And the green areas, the places that we can play, are our side of the net and the net itself. Okay? So you can play on your side of the net and you can play up at the net, but where can you not play? You can't play on the other side of the net. Okay? You can't play on the other side of the net, and the other side of the net is the other person's motives or intent. Okay? And I'll help you understand more about what this looks like, but ultimately it means that you can't have assumptions about why they did or did something else. So just to kind of walk through this a little bit more detail, you've got the net, and I'm gonna give you kind of a classic example in the workspace. I'm not suggesting that this happens here, but this is kind of a classic example in the workspace. So imagine you're in a meeting, and your leader is presenting something that you contributed heavily to, and your leader didn't acknowledge you and your contribution to that work, right? And you're sitting there and your leader's really like getting all the praise and contribution, and you're like, I literally created that, like, that's me, right? And so that is the observation. That's the action, right? That's the thing that happened. Right? And there is— when you say something like this, you say, "Hey, I was surprised that you didn't acknowledge the work that I did." That's a very okay statement because you're actually staying on your side of the net, right? So the net was they didn't acknowledge you, right? That's the behavior, that's what happened. Your side of the net was, "I was kind of surprised that that didn't happen, right? I was surprised you didn't acknowledge me." You're— the other person's side of the net is saying something like, "Why are you always trying to take credit for my work?" Because what does the other side of the net do? It makes an assumption or an accusation, right? So I'm making an assumption or accusation about why they didn't give me credit as opposed to just saying, "This is what I experienced. Here's the impact on it," and then making space for them to respond, right? That's the key, because if I go to the other side of the net and I say, "Hey, why are you trying to always take credit for my work?" that is likely going to elicit what kind of response from them? Like, I'm not trying to take credit for your work. Why do you say that? Right? But if I'm just letting them know, here's my observation, here's the experience. Now it's your time to return. Like, that's a much better version of that conversation. All right. So that's the different sides of net. Now, let me help you understand why we've got to stay away from intense. So, Katie and I have been married 24 years. Now, Melissa, I'm with you and Chad enough to know that it seems like Chad's really good at buying you flowers. That seem like accurate? Okay. So I saw that later, like, like a week or a couple days ago, right? Like he bought some flowers. Okay. So I am not good at buying flowers. Okay. So but there's a reason, okay? Because my wife doesn't like flowers. Okay. Do I have any people in the room that like you really don't care about flowers? And you're like, why would I get— why don't I like flowers? Because they do what?

They die, right?

That's my wife, right? So, in 24 years, I have bought my wife flowers, I think 3 times, okay? And some of you are like, "That's horrible." But some of you all that appreciate that they die, you're like, "That makes perfect sense," right? So, let me give you an example. Years ago, when I was traveling extensively, let's say that I was in like Seattle and my wife was in Knoxville. And, and I was working and I had this like spontaneous, like romantic impulse to buy her flowers and have them sent to her house knowing that I don't ever send her flowers. Okay. I don't ever send her flowers. And I had this spontaneous romantic impulse to send her flowers. Right. So the flowers show up at my wife's house. I'm in Seattle. She's in Knoxville.

Right.

Now, let's unpack this. Based on what I've shared with you, are my motives good? Am I at risk of her misinterpreting why I sent the flowers? Absolutely. Okay? Right? This is the problem, is that unless intents or motives are explicitly said, then you don't know, right? And so it is not okay for us to just jump to a conclusion about why something did or didn't happen we need to make space to find out, right? So what we want to do is have a conversation in a way that doesn't assume and doesn't accuse, but it basically just says like, here's the behavior, here's the experience, here's the observation, here's the impact on me. Now, let me give you a little quiz. So the quiz is, out of these statements, which one is the best one that helps you stay on your side of the net. Which one is the best one that says, "I'm staying on my side of the net"? All right, we're up to about 33, 34 people. Most of you all chose the correct answer, okay, and it is simply that I feel disrespected, and this is where words matter, okay? Words matter tremendously. Yes, Peggy?

I have a responsibility, however, to tune up my personality and not, you know, what makes you feel disrespected, there's got to be some responsibility.

Sure.

To not—

It takes two people. Yes. Like, I have a responsibility to be mature, professional, and not allow something to make me feel disrespected. Yes, 100%.

Yes.

But I'm also here, and here's— and I love your point. Here's what happens though, is let's say that I'll use Lacey. So let's say that every interaction I have with Lacey, I leave that interaction feeling disrespected. Okay. Yeah, yeah. She's like, you should. So I felt contempt there. So let's say that this goes on for months and months. Lacey and I have interactions at least once a week. And every time I leave interaction, I'm like, I'm trying to be like the most mature professional, and I'm trying to not feel disrespected. But there's something about the way that she approaches me that like, I just feel disrespected the way that she talks to me, right? How do you think that's going to impact my relationship over time if I never bring that to Lacey's attention? Like, what am I going to start doing more of or less of if every time I interact with her I feel disrespected despite my best efforts to be good, be growing, be mature, be responsible, and to not allow her to make me feel disrespected? What do you think is going to happen over time? I'm going to have contempt. What I'm also likely to do? Withdraw a little bit, not meet with her, not communicate as well. Projects we're working on probably not going to be as effective because I'm not even going to have the interaction, right? So You're not wrong. You're 100% correct. We all have responsibility to be mature, to be professional, and to not let things impact us like we're 5, right? Like, I'm 100% on board with that. And if that is the experience you're having, you're not helping by just walking away and being like, I'm not gonna be disrespected. I'm not gonna be disrespected, right? Like, I should have the, respect for Lacey to at some point say, hey, when this happened in that meeting, when this happened in that interaction, I feel disrespected. Okay? I'm not accusing you of being— and let's walk through the slide here. I'm not saying you made me feel disrespected because like she doesn't necessarily— that's giving her too much power, right? And that's staying— that's playing on her side of the net. I'm also saying like, I don't— I'm not going to say I feel like you don't respect me. Because then all of a sudden I'm making an accusation or assumption. I'm also not gonna say, "You are disrespectful," right? 'Cause I really just accused her then. I'm also not gonna say things like, "I know you meant to ignore me," right? All those things are playing on her side of the net, but it is helpful for Lacey in a mature, effective relationship for her to know that something about the way that we interact feels, makes me feel disrespected, okay? And it doesn't even mean, to Peggy's point, it doesn't even mean that Lacey is doing something wrong. Like, she could actually be doing everything right, but it's still an opportunity for her to maybe look at, can I adjust the way I interact with Clay so that that's not the experience he's having, right? So that's the idea behind this. So it's a yes and. It's a tension to be managed. We all have responsibility to manage ourselves and be mature, and we also have responsibility to our colleagues to let them know if we're having experiences with them that's not perfect, not great. So, does that make sense?

Okay.

Peggy, thank you for that. So, let's keep moving. Alright. So, here's how you really try to use I statements to stay on your side of the net. So, what you're trying to say is, "When something happens, I feel blank." And you're trying to put a word in there that helps best capture how that thing made you feel. And it could be just something like, "I feel concerned." Hey, I feel a little uneasy. I feel a little uncomfortable, right? You don't— I feel a little bothered, right? I didn't really like the way that happened, right? Like, you're not— you don't have to jump to extreme like, like, I feel distraught, right? Like, it doesn't have to be like big like words. It can be things that make sense and feel good to you. But it's just bringing that to their attention. I feel this way. So, an example is something like this. When communications are sent out with without looping me in, I feel concerned about the consistency in our messaging. That might even feel like a relevant example for you all, right? So you're not saying like, oh my gosh, I was pounding my fist when that happened. You're not saying like, I crashed my head through a wall. Like, it's not that, right? It's just like, hey, I feel concerned about the consistency in our messaging when that kind of stuff happens, right? And then I'm just making some space for us to talk through that, right? Just having a conversation. So here's what I want you all to talk, and you have to make this quick so let's stay on time, is just quickly share with your neighbor what's a recent example of where something that has occurred where you might have been able to use one of these I statements. When that happened, I felt blank. So just quickly have that conversation. I'm going to give you like 60 seconds and then we're going to move on.

30 seconds. 10 seconds.

All right, 3, 2, 1. So I'm gonna give you more space in a little bit to practice some of this, but let's keep moving just for the sake of time. So let me give you just some more examples, just kind of help continue elevating some of your vocabulary. So I've got this slide divided into 4 sections. You've got the bright green where my side of the net, the light green which is the net, the red which is their side of the net, and then I've got kind of the winning serve down on the bottom, okay? So the right side of the— or our side of the net would be something like, hey, I'm confused by— and I'm gonna walk across each one of these— I'm confused by your consistent absence on the scheduled calls we have. What I'm not gonna say is, do you just not care about our work? Okay, I'm gonna say, I'm surprised by the lack of follow-through on what we agreed to last time. What I'm not gonna say is, are you just lazy or are you incompetent?

Right?

I'm gonna say, I'm concerned by the amount of work we're doing outside of what was the scope of our agreement. All right? What I'm not gonna say is, you're just taking advantage of us. All right? And the emphasis is, the minute I go on that red slide, or the red side, I'm making an accusation, an assumption about their motive or intent, and they're the only person that knows that, and that's not appropriate for us to play on that side of the net. Okay, you have to play on your side. Now the winning serve, the winning, the winning point is when you can then end that conversation by asking for a co-creation of a solution, right? So hey, I'm bringing this to your attention. So Lacey, I feel disrespected when you do that thing in the meeting that we talked about. What ideas do you have for how we can make this better? Right now she might say, I don't know, it's your problem, right? That's a whole nother conversation, right? But I'm at least inviting someone into the dialogue. And the minute I'm asking for ideas and engagement, that's always gonna be healthier, more effective than me just telling Lacey what I need her to do differently, right? 'Cause she might go, hey, you know what? Tell me more about that. I didn't know that was happening, right? That'd be great. 'Cause I might say, what ideas do you have? And she's like, hey, well, first of all, I didn't know that was going on. Like, tell me more about your experience. She might say, well, you know, Clay, to be honest with you, like, I think you're kind of a jerk, right? And that's why I'm disrespectful to you, right? So we might have a really great rich conversation at that point, right? So but the point is, is that you're always going to be better off if you can invite that person into the solution as opposed to just telling them what you need to see happen. Okay, let's keep moving. So asking for someone's input, what ideas we have to make this better. If you want to take that to the next step, like if Lacey and I were having this conversation, If it makes sense, and this is where I'm going to try to manage this tension. Like, so we're in a workshop, right? So I'm giving you skills and tools. But be very careful not to see this as like a rigid script, right? So like scripts aren't always helpful in human interactions because like we're not making widgets, okay? Like you're still dealing with a lot of dynamics that are going on in that moment. So, it might make sense at some point for me to ask Lacey, "Hey, you know, Here's the solution. So what steps are you going to take? Like, by when? And then how will I know, right? And some of this is going to be more applicable not when I'm talking about personal interactions, but it's going to be more applicable if I'm talking about like work projects, right? Like, I'm talking about work projects. Like, you sent that communication or this thing came out. I didn't get a chance to review it. Like, that's going to be a lot easier for us to talk about steps, by when, and how will I know. Than if I'm like, Lacey's like, well, I guess I just won't be disrespectful to you anymore, right? I'm like, okay, well, what steps are you gonna take to do this? By when? And how am I gonna know? She's going, well, you'll know, right? So, you know, you can make conversations a little bit more ineffective if you try to use these rigidly every single time, but they are helpful for some situations, okay? And so we'll give you a chance to practice some of this in a minute. So here's kind of what I call like the 6-step template pro-level pickleball skill conversation, right? And it builds all this stuff we've talked about and puts it all together. So you're gonna say, when this happened, when I observed this, when this thing happened, when I experienced it, when I saw it, when I heard it, etc., I feel blank. I'm gonna give you some words here in a little bit to build your emotional vocabulary. What ideas do you have for how we can make this better? That was step 3. And then 4, 5, and 6, I would say, are a little more optional, but they're helpful when applicable. And that's what steps will you take, when will you have that done, and how will I know it's been done? Okay? And sometimes you got to be careful too depending on your relationship, right? So like, like if you're having a conversation with someone who has more authority than you, like steps 4, 5, and 6 may not be appropriate. Okay? Like it's okay for steps 1 through 3. I would say, I would say the further you go down this list with someone that has more authority than you, they become more career limiting. So just keep that in mind. But steps 1 through 3 are safe for anybody to have with anybody. Like, you, you could be able to have steps 1, 2, and 3 with Randy Boyd. Okay. Like, you should be able to have that conversation with him and like he would, he would be receptive to that. Okay. And somebody's like, yeah, who's going to do that? So, but no, seriously, like, like that's the first 3 are Very safe, effective ways for you to have professional conversations about whatever when it makes sense to have that conversation, okay? So that's the kind of the snap, the summarized version. I'm gonna expand it a little bit and just help you understand how it would flow. So you'd say, when this happens, describe your observation, not their intent. I feel, here's a couple more words, frustrated, disrespected, disappointed. Remember what not to say. What you're not gonna say is you made me feel this way or you are disrespectful or you are frustrating, right? Right? You're not going to say those, you're gonna say what you feel. And then what ideas do you have to make this better? Here's a big key. Pause. Okay? Just don't talk, right? Just be quiet for a minute. Make space. And then if it makes sense, what steps are you going to take? By when? And how will I know it's done? Those are all opportunities. Pause. Yes, in the back.

Well, I need you to do this.

Yep. Back and forth.

I have to fix it.

Yeah.

Instead of it being a joint—

Yeah.

Yeah. And some of that, what's really hard for me in my role at this moment is like, what is the nuance of that? Is it legitimate, like what they said to you, or is that just them getting defensive, right? So like, I don't know. If it's legitimate, we want to receive it, feedback, and work on it. If you feel like it's just them getting defensive, there's nothing wrong with then actually speaking to that moment and saying, "Hey, I feel frustrated when I try to bring something to your attention and then your immediate reaction is to tell me what I need differently." So, you literally like have conversation number 2 in that moment about what just happened. So, I'm bringing you conversation number 1. But when I bring conversation number 1, you get defensive. And so I'm actually going to address that as my next conversation. Does that make sense? And so you do it right in the moment. And sometimes that helps. I'm not saying it's perfect, but that's, that's your best strategy for that. So, all right. So let me give you some additional, like, emotional vocabulary. And here in a few minutes, just make— just know we're going to make space for you guys to practice some of this and work on it. So here are some, like, effective, what we call "I feel" phrases. So these are words that you can use that may help you. Some of these are very positive. So they might say, you know, in the kind of appreciative bucket. So I might say, "Hey, when campuses and the system proactively share ideas, resources, and successes, I feel appreciated because it reminds me we're all working towards the same mission." And you say, "Well, aren't we trying to use some of these conversations to like correct things?" Well, here's the deal is if the only time someone sees you showing up is because you're bringing something to their attention that needs to be different, that's not gonna create a great relationship either. So some of what we have to be better at is actually being more intentional about recognizing and appreciating when things are right, right? So you wanna use some of these kind of emotional vocabulary words to help you be better with that. So I'm gonna be appreciative. I might share with somebody that I'm encouraged. So hey, when we ask for each other's perspectives before tackling a complex communication challenge, I feel really encouraged because our collective expertise makes us stronger. All right, proud. When we come together to tell the University of Tennessee story, I feel proud because it reflects what it means to be one UT. Valued. When my expertise is sought on issues where I can add value, I do feel valued because it demonstrates trust and strengthens our partnership. And then supported. When colleagues across the system willingly share resources, ideas, or expertise, I feel supported because it reinforces we're working together to advance the university enterprise. So, questions, comments about this one before I share with you some on the other side? Yes, Charles?

Uh, sorry about that.

Um, so on the last slide, the 6 items, you mentioned the first 3 are okay and safe, but the latter maybe not be. Yeah. Uh, for authority. I'm young. A lot of people have more authority than me. But if we're talking about having effective conversations, why is it not okay to talk about those 3 to people who have authority? Yeah, that's a great— I'm glad you're pushing on it. So the reason is, if I'm dealing with someone who's over authority, who has authority to me, and they are healthy, mature, and responsible, it's safe for me to go through all 6, right? But if they're not, and I push on items 4, 5, and 6, I may wind up regretting that conversation, right? So it's just a disclaimer. Like, I'm— I would love to live in a world where everything's awesome like The Lego Movie, but that doesn't always the case. And so I'm just putting a word of caution out there because I would hate for somebody to leave here and think that the next thing they can do is call up their boss or their boss's boss and try to walk through all 6 of those and be really discouraged that it didn't go well. So first 3, perfectly safe, but you have to kind of earn the right to go to 4, 5, and 6 2 ways. One, you got to make sure that you are doing your role And then the other part of it is you got to make sure that they're actually healthy and mature of themselves. So is that helpful? Yeah, it is. Yeah, thanks for asking. I hope we can wake up in a world one day where I could tell everybody in the room to like go through all 6 and there's no problem. But I just, I would hate for somebody to have a bad experience with that. So hopefully that makes sense.

All right. Do you have, if you'll go back, do you mind?

Yeah.

Is I feel for some reason the step number 3, it just doesn't roll off the tongue.

Okay.

What ideas do you have about how we can make this better? I just, I don't know if you have any ideas about how to phrase that differently.

Yes.

How, maybe how can we work together or is there, is like, I feel this, it's how can we work together to improve this in the future? Because it just—

Doesn't flow.

It doesn't flow.

Let's ask your colleagues. What are some ways you all would word it? What does this look like? What does this look like? That feels more natural? Thoughts for improving our relationship. Yeah, if that's the issue.

Yeah. I like, I think the point you're making is it's like co-designing, which is a word you used earlier.

Yeah.

The co-designing of it. Path forward instead of, I need you to think about this, what's your idea. It's a shared responsibility.

How can we—

yeah, I think an invitation to co-designing and recognizing that both parties have a responsibility in that.

I like it. Yeah, and I'm glad we're talking about this because this goes back to my comment earlier. I'm less concerned that anybody walks out of here thinking this is a script and more concerned that you understand kind of the intent and the spirit behind it. And that you come up with words and phrases that work well for you. So make sure that that is happening. So does anybody else want to add their thoughts on how you would word number 3 better or differently so it fits?

I think, I think what we're saying is you need to take this as a guide and make it your own based on the relationship that you have with that individual. For example, um, the conversation that I may have with Ellie in our division is probably going to look a whole lot different than the conversation that I would have with Rob.

Yes.

But it's going to accomplish the same thing.

Yes.

It's just modifying based on our relationship and what I believe resonates with you versus what I believe will resonate with Rob.

Yeah. And that's where, you know, even thinking about something Peggy shared earlier, like each of us have a responsibility to grow in what I'm sure most of y'all have heard is like emotional intelligence, right? And so it's not just applying a guide like this in an automaton— how do you say it? Automaton way to every— oh, thank you. And it's the same person or every person, but realizing it's a guide, it's a framework, but my job is to have enough emotional intelligence with each interaction to say, okay, what version of this is gonna be the most helpful, right, in this moment? And making sure that it's helpful for me, helpful for them, and helpful for the outcome. So, yeah, other thoughts on number 3? Okay.

Yeah.

Find words that work. All right, let's go to these. So these are a little bit more of like, hey, something like we need to change something. So concerned. So when significant UT System announcements are shared without advance notice, I feel surprised because it makes it more difficult for us to answer questions and support our campus and institute communities. Or when, and this is not a quiz, it's like these are, these are options, multiple options. When the UT System isn't aware of an announcement or issue that could have broader implications, I feel concerned because we may miss opportunities to support one another and prepare for questions from our broader stakeholders. So, you know, one of them uses the word surprised and one of them uses the word concerned. Another one might be frustrated. So hey, when we solve similar communications challenges independently, instead of sharing ideas or resources, I feel frustrated because we have an opportunity to learn from one another, right? Or confused when roles and responsibilities on a shared communications project aren't clearly defined. I feel confused about how I can best support the campus or the system. Or unsettled. Hey, when information need— needed to support communication efforts is shared at the last minute, I feel unsettled. I feel irritated because it limits our ability to provide the best strategic counsel and service.

Okay.

Okay, these are all just, you know, examples. What would you all add to this? What words do you all like that maybe I haven't shared that maybe have helped you in some of these conversations? Going once.

A happened to me like 2 weeks ago.

Yeah. You needed to share it or someone shared that with you?

Oh, somebody shared it with me. Yeah. And I appreciated the candor in the comment. It was coming from a good place. I mean, well-intended.

Yeah.

Someone that I respect very well. And the reality of it was we messed up on our side.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I said that. Yeah. Actually.

But it didn't, it didn't bother you that they use the word surprise? That felt like an effective way to bring that to your attention? Yeah.

Yeah.

But I also think that the trust that the relationship and the trust that you have with that individual matters. And I'm very thankful that I have the trust with my colleagues. Colleagues in the room that I'm not going to get my feelings hurt. If that happens, because I know it's coming from a good place. Yeah, there's trust established.

Yeah, I love that. The— if you guys get a chance to read, there's a great book called The Speed of Trust by the Covey organization, really talks about how much trust— actually, it's not a— it's actually a skill that can be built. But it's also something that not only helps make organizations better places to work, but also helps you create better outcomes as well. So I love that. To Melissa's point, like part of what I'm gonna talk about before we end our time together here in about 30 minutes is making sure that we are being intentional with building those relationships because when you need to have the conversations, they're always gonna go better if the better relationship you have with that person. If you wait to have a, if you wait to build a relationship after you need the conversation, it's not gonna go as well. You know, so having that connection is always gonna help, right? So let's invite you into the conversation. What is one emotional vocabulary word or phrase you could use? You can use one of the ones I shared. You can use one that maybe you like. What's one, what's a word that you feel comfortable including in a dialogue with someone if you needed to bring something to their attention? And this is just an open text. And it will not show your name, if you're wondering. We got surprised, frustrated, concerned, encouraged, disappointed, confused, frustrated, devalued, confused, frustrated, surprised, undervalued. Overwhelmed, defeated, concerned, concerned. You know, one word I use that I don't have on my slides is I'll say something like, hey, that didn't feel great when this happened, you know. I was really bothered by that, you know. That's a word I feel comfortable saying. So, you know, when that happened in that meeting or that project or we observed this or that happened, it didn't feel great. So that tends to be comfortable for me and it tends to land well.

Yes. I don't know that there's a great answer to this anywhere, but in the modern era, everybody has got all these stressors. And sometimes when you have conversations as a leader that you think are fairly—

Benign.

Benign, straightforward, big feelings show up.

Yeah.

And often it has nothing to do with—

No.

So in these conversations, what is your best advice for what happens when big feelings show up?

That is a great setup for something I'm going to cover in about 10 minutes. So yeah, thank you for that. Glad you read my notes. So no, we're going to talk about that. So I love this quote. It says, your culture is defined by the worst behavior you're willing to tolerate. Now, when I first read this quote for the very first time, I thought, yeah, I need to be tougher on my people and not tolerate stuff. I need to make sure that I'm— holding people accountable. But I now am at a place where I realize that it's actually more about me holding up the mirror and asking myself what behaviors I tolerate in myself. Like what's the culture that I'm creating because I'm tolerating certain behaviors by myself. And some of the behaviors that I tolerate in myself are things like I avoid having these conversations, I delay them, I don't have them well, you know, I don't prepare for them. And so I'm trying to be better at not creating that culture by tolerating those behaviors in myself. And so what I'd like for you guys to do is practice some of the stuff we talked about. So what I want you to do is think about an example where a courageous conversation might be helpful. Maybe you've already shared it with your peer in a prior discussion, and then just roleplay with them what this conversation might sound like. And If it's helpful to read it verbatim, you can. If you wanna, you know, play with it and use it as a guide and make it your own, that's fine. But 'cause it does need to feel authentic, it needs to feel genuine, it needs to feel like something you can say confidently. But just practice this using the example that maybe you shared earlier or another example, just practice it with your peer. And then we'll talk about your experience working through this in about 3 or 4 minutes. So practice that with your neighbor. Thanks. Thanks for that question. Thank you for your question earlier.

2 more minutes.

2 more minutes. One minute. 30 seconds. All right, so before we move on, I'd love to make space for you all to share maybe just some of your ahas, reflections, tough questions. Would love to hear from 2 or 3 of you before we move on. Just anything that stood out to you about that role play exercise, something that maybe you found helpful. Any volunteers?

Yes. Okay, so we came up with something. Interesting conversation, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on— okay, how does this kind of changes or is it impacted by gender? So we were talking about the ideal statement, and when we've talked to people and they— I feel as a woman, it gets a little bit more difficult and stereotypes come into play. So I'd be really curious how you— yeah, do you give different advice So not necessarily like, like global.

So first of all, thank you for the question. I wouldn't give like, like globally different advice. I think it's actually, you're not wrong in thinking like there might be some differences there. In my experience, it's more about like the emotional intelligence piece because like I've, I've, you know, I've worked with females that are like less emotional than some of the males and vice versa, right? So like For me, it's not as much about the gender, it's more about just kind of knowing that person and reading that situation. And, you know, for, you know, have any of you guys ever, somebody said this a minute ago, do any of you guys have that colleague, and don't point to them if they're in the room, but like, no matter what you talk about, it might elicit tears, like they're gonna start crying? Like, do you guys have that? Don't point at somebody, okay? So that person, like, I'm going to be way more gentle, delicate, I'm gonna really, you know, and that may be male or female, right? But the same thing for like if I find somebody that is, you know, they seem to be very stoic, non-expressive, very little like kind of like emotional spectrum as far as what they're doing. I might just say like, I may not get into like, hey, I feel, you know, really confused and bothered. Like I might just be like, hey, I didn't feel great, you know, like I didn't feel great. I didn't feel like that went well. Like I'm gonna shorten it up, make it a little bit more concise for that person. So am I doing your question any justice?

Well, what we were talking about is I'm real hesitant. I mean, like, if I had an issue that I wanted to talk to Melissa about, I would feel very comfortable saying, I feel this way. I've known her for decades, okay? But if I'm talking to someone like John R. Lewis or Clay Linkous, I'm not going to express it like that. Okay. I'm not going to say I feel.

Yeah.

Because that may make me sound weak or appear weak.

Yeah. Well, remember, one of the words though is not necessarily about like, you could just say, hey, I feel concerned. Like, that's not me like an emotional weakness. Like, that's just me as a responsible professional. Like, I feel concerned that we're not going to give the best messaging or the best communication. So don't, don't, yeah, don't feel like the emotional word has to be something that makes you feel like, like I'm giving you like a weak like disposition of myself, like, because it's not, it doesn't have to be that way. Like it might be appropriate at times, but words like concerned, words like confused, like that's less emotional, it's just more like, hey, I didn't really understand that. So use, use a word that's going to fit the situation, And don't use a word that you're not comfortable with, because that's not going to help either. So, yes.

So maybe instead of saying, I feel some concern, could you say, I have some concern?

Yeah, I'm concerned.

Or, I'm not really understanding.

Yeah, yeah. And that goes back to Melissa's point. Like, use this as a guide, not a rigid script. Like, it's a framework. It's a structure. If you don't walk away from anything, if you don't walk away with anything else today, what I want you to walk away with the most is just don't go to the other side of the net. Like, don't play where you are talking about, like, their motives, their intent about what they're doing, because that's when the conversation is probably not going to go well, right? As long as you make it about, like, hey, I'm concerned, I didn't like that, that bothered me, I'm confused, those are all safe spaces to play. The minute I go, like, you disrespected me, like you are so thoughtless, like you did this without any thought process whatsoever. Like I'm jumping to a point where that's not gonna be helpful. So, yes.

I feel like this is so emotionally involved, but we might not be there yet. Like in my past experience, I've learned to tamp down any emotion in the corporate place.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Very emotional. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So if you're with leaders or you're with coworkers and you're with, you know, people that you're trying to have this conversation, I'm giving you permission to not say the word feel. Like, you don't have to say the word feel for the conversation to be effective. Just say, I'm concerned. Like, that makes sense? Take out the word feel.

Have you found doing these talks that I guess society is moving towards more emotional intelligence?

I'd say here's the way I would answer it is the larger, more sophisticated, more institutionalized an organization is, the more likely they are to be going down that path. But I— work with a lot of industries and stuff that that would not say that that's accurate. So it's, it's hard for me to kind of give a universal answer. So that's where you got to like know your, know your team. And I could argue even inside of your own system, you probably have different levels of how I would answer that question. Like, like collectively you might say this way, but if you go to this campus, it might be a little different. If you go to this little pocket, it might be a little— so, so just know there's some nuances there. So, but, but yes, do not feel like you have to use the word feel if that is better? Yes.

I think for me, a lot of it's generational. My younger employees who are here in this room, they lean in more, I think, to the feel part of what we're talking about today. Whereas— and I'm gonna pick on Jennifer, she knows. Whereas the conversations that Jennifer and I have, we will never use the word feel or how something makes us feel. We not. Part of what I love about Jennifer is the directness in which we can have a hard conversation, and we have had some. The directness in which we can have have that, but also going back to trust. I care so much about Jennifer that when we walk out of that hard, direct conversation, we're shoulder to shoulder and it's cool, it's okay. But with some of the younger employees, I, you know, you cannot, my belief is you cannot have those conversations with a broad brush approach.

Yeah, I agree.

Different based on the trust level that you have with the individual, based on perhaps gender, perhaps, you know, perhaps years in the industry, the relationship that you have with them, all of it. It can't— in my mind, it can never be a broad brush approach, if that makes sense.

Yeah. Well, this goes back to like, if you think about the earlier part of our workshop, like, I was asking you all what made you the most, like, how'd you feel about these conversations? And, you know, my experience is the spectrum of even experience in these conversations is probably wide in this room. And so if you already have a way that you have these conversations that you feel like is effective, keep doing that, right? And try to walk away from today with something that might give you a little bit more edge and something that might help you a little bit better, right? If you're brand new to these, and you have no model, no framework for using it, then you're probably gonna have a lot more kind of like takeaways from this and you're probably gonna try to follow this a little bit more. And then over time, to Melissa's point, with each person, you're probably gonna figure out like, hey, that was helpful, that was not, how do I like tweak this the next time? So take away as much or as little as helpful, but to Melissa's point, at the end of the day, you're still dealing with human beings and there's just so many variables there that it's hard to have a broad sweeping model a tool that's going to apply to every situation every time. So yes.

Maybe you've covered this, and I apologize if you have, but is there any place for empathy in this?

Oh.

I understand what you did, but here's why we can't do that.

Sure.

Or why we can't proceed in that direction.

Yeah.

Empathy's okay.

Yeah.

Instead of I feel.

Yeah, yeah. I mean—

To me, it turns it back to them.

Yeah. I mean, what I heard in that was— Like, I feel like I understand why you did this. So yeah, I mean, in my mind, what I heard you say doesn't deviate from what I'm sharing here. It may not word it exactly the same, but I feel like you're still hitting the essence of what we're talking about. So yeah.

My observation, I feel like people are less sympathetic these days.

I do agree with that.

I think there's a lot of— and I'm guilty of this too— I'm more concerned about myself than— Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know if you can go wrong in most settings by trying to be empathetic. So yeah, I think it's always a good rule. All right, let's keep moving. Let me give you a little quiz. So what's one thing you've heard today that you would find helpful in using in an upcoming conversation? Just one thing. Could be a word, a phrase, a tip. Doesn't have to be something I've said. Maybe a colleague, maybe something you heard during your roleplay. I just wanna make sure you have something you feel like you can take away. Be both. Convert criticism to complaint. Stay on your side of the net. Don't cross the net. Ask myself, what's my part in this? Assume positive intent. Courage. Not being accusatory. Ask for next steps. Don't volley hard conversations to their side of the net. Think about intent. All that's good.

Yeah.

You guys are such great students. So good. So good. Don't assume the worst. Be intentional.

Word.

Yeah.

All good. Yes.

Yes. I love that. I'm not even gonna ask who typed that. So thank you for lightening the mood. That's so awesome. Hey, let me, we got just a few minutes left. Let me give you some final tips that'll help you. So in my experience, these are the most 8 common responses when you try to have a courageous conversation. And they actually all kind of fall under that kind of defensiveness thing. So you know, somebody was asking me yesterday, like, or yesterday, earlier today was like, "Hey, what if I deliver this really well but the person's still defensive?" In my experience, the 8 things on the screen are the most common ways that people respond defensively. And here's the unfortunate answer is you can only control yourself. Like, you can only control yourself. You cannot control the other person. So, you be the best version of yourself. You show up the best way you can. And here's the next thing I want to tell you. Quick little story. So, this is probably the most divisive topic in my home now. So, What you have on the screens there is what some people call decorative pillows. Okay. So in my experience, most audiences are kind of divided on this topic. So I'm gonna try to make this not as divisive as possible. So you either have what I call people that are pro-decorative pillow or people that are anti-decorative pillow. So I'll give you some illustrations and you can figure out which one you are. So the pro-decorative pillow are people like my wife, Like, you guys are— you got bed— you got decorative pillows for different times of the year, decorative pillows for different seasons, different holidays. You've got storages for decorative pillows. So you got all these different things. And then you might even have like Amazon shopping cart for decorative pillows, okay? Then your other side are your anti-decorative pillow people, and you think decorative pillows are just a waste of time, right? So if you are the pro-decorative-pillows people, if you raise your hand, people. Okay. All right. The rest of us hate you. Okay. So no, I'm just kidding. So in my home, my wife's pro, I'm anti. But here's what I want to tell you is we have this kind of like standard of behavior in my home where whoever gets up from the bed last is responsible for making the bed. Okay. Now, 95% of the time I get out of bed before my wife when I'm home. And so she makes the bed. Okay. But there are those times when I make the bed. Now, when my wife makes the bed, she's pro-decorative pillow and she has each pillow that goes in like its exact space on the bed, exactly where she wants it. She's got like measured out with like a measuring tape and like they have this perfect little combination, right? And it's all like this perfect zen-like setting, right? Now, when she does it, you can assume that she puts them there exactly where she wants them. Now the question is, when I make the bed, what do you think I do with the decorative pillows? You are so wrong. None of you guys have been married. So I put the decorative pillows exactly where she wants them, like exactly to the best of my ability where she wants them and like to the T, right? Now you're like, well, you told me that you were anti-decorative pillow, right? Well, here's the difference. My wife, My wife puts the decorative pillows back where she wants them because she wants to. Okay. Why do I, why do I put the decorative pillows back where they go? Because I have to. Okay. Yeah, because I have to. My life is better when I do. Okay. Now, and the reason I share this is a funny little illustration is like, the more that you can create an environment where people want to work with you, where people see you as somebody that they enjoy working with, people that they really appreciate it, all these things we talked about today are going to be way easier, right? So what I'm going to share with you in these last final minutes are just some like pro tips on how do you be the best colleague possible so that when these conversations are needed, they are significantly more likely to land in the way that you want them to land. Okay? So, real quick. Share with you a couple tips. So think about things to consider before the conversation. These are from the book Super Communicators. What do you hope to accomplish? What do you hope to learn? How are you going to start the conversation? And by the way, for those of you that are note-takers, you'll get these slides if you want them. What obstacles might emerge? Will a hesitancy to say something controversial prevent us from saying what's necessary? How can we make it safer for everyone to air their thoughts? How will you calm yourself and others if the conversation gets What are the benefits of the conversation? Are the benefits worth the risk? Usually the answer is yes. And if people do get upset or angry, how are you gonna remind everyone why this dialogue is so important? Okay, that's just a nice list, top 10 things that'll help you with this. I'm also going to share with you some other tips that will help you. One thing is about your approach to the conversation. So one thing is to always just share your intention. So a good way to approach these conversations, something like, hey, I need your help with something. Or I'd like to share with you something I've noticed, can we talk? I'd like to resolve something about the way we work together, would it be okay if we talked? I'd like to work, I'd like to see if we can work through what happened yesterday, can we talk about it? Or I have some ideas on strengthening our teamwork and collaboration, could we talk? The reason these kind of opening disclaimers are important when you're trying to have these conversations is what we've learned about human beings is that we actually are way more tolerant and receptive to unpleasant things. Here's the if, if we know about them ahead of time. Okay. If we know about things ahead of time, and I can give you a lot of like research and nerd out on this, but we know about ahead of time, we're actually able to like get ready for them and like, like put ourselves in a posture where we can like have a dialogue. But if you just come in the door, and you're like, Clay, it really bothered me the other day when you did this and this. I'm like, whoa, you know, you kind of blow me back, right? If you're like, hey, I'd like to talk to you about something that's been going on that I've noticed. I'd like to see if you can help me with it, right? I'm automatically like, all right, let's have this conversation, right? So some of y'all are gonna leave here and you're gonna be like, next time somebody says I need your help, you're like, what are you gonna tell me? So, but those are some helpful openings. Here's some other tips. Write down your talking points. Avoid that amygdala hijack, that lizard brain. Delivery method matters. Somebody was talking about this earlier. I would encourage you when at all possible to avoid digital delivery. So if at all possible, try to not do this texting, email, or official UT system memo, okay? Like, these are gonna be best if they are in person. I realize that is highly unlikely in many situations, so at least try to have a Zoom meeting, a Teams meeting. Worst case scenario, try to have a phone call, okay? But all those things matter because when you start studying kind of the neurology and the neuroscience of communication, you got to realize it's not just words. There's a lot going on when it comes to people communicating effectively. Also, be aware of what's got what I call power gradients. So in other words, that conversation is going to feel differently whether it's in my office, your office, or a neutral site. Okay, so be aware about that. It's also going to feel differently whether it's in public or whether it's in private. So be aware about listening ears, all that stuff matters. Couple of things I'll share with you about just your reputation as a communicator. Something you can do to really strengthen this is be interested, not just interesting. So look for ways when you're with colleagues to build that relationship by finding out more about them, about their life outside of work. Learn the names of stuff that is important to them, people, pets, places. Notice and compliment them on things that are appropriate. Use LinkedIn and other things as like hacks. Find out people's birthdays, work anniversaries, organization, you know, find out about their— where they're from. Anything you can do to have touch points with them that are not because you just need something from them, okay? Because if the only time you reach out to somebody is because you need something or need to tell them something, that's never going to be a great relationship, right? So look for opportunities to connect with people outside of that. Use major holidays as a non-agenda touch point. Identify ways to make them look good in the eyes of other people. Look for ways to make yourself human. And then apologize, you know, when mistakes are made. So those are my other tips. I realize I'm going through this pretty quickly. You guys will get this, but I want to make sure we respect our time. Stop and ask, how can I— so this whole idea of we-they. We-they is about me framing something in a way that makes me look good and you look bad. Okay? And it's situations where the classic example, let me give you, is like you'll be out to eat at a restaurant. Server brings you the wrong food, okay? Brings you the wrong food and you bring it to the server's attention. "Hey, this is not what I ordered." That server has a choice in that moment to say one or two things. They can either say, "Hey, I'm so sorry that we got this wrong. Let me make it right for you." Or they can do the wrong choice and they can say, "Oh, I'm so sorry. The kitchen always gets the orders wrong." Right? What did the server just do in that last situation? They said something in a way that makes other people look bad and makes them look good. Because they don't want you to make it feel feel like that they made a mistake, but in that moment, do you really care who made the mistake? Like, you just want the food, right? So we-they is when I'm not saying something in a way, or I'm saying something in a way that makes me look good and you look bad, and you want to stomp that out of your organization as much as possible. And you do that by slowing down, saying, hey, how can I phrase this in a way that doesn't make others look bad? Intentionally, purposely managing each other up, sending notes to your supervisor about people that they should recognize is a great way to do this. Sending notes to supervisors of others to recognize them. And then look for ways to just manage up your organization on and off the clock. So just look for ways to speak favorably about who you work for and others. I've given you a tool that you may want to use. You don't have to in the interest of time, but if you want to take this away, I always find it helpful to take some notes around like, hey, here's what I'm gonna do as a result of today. And the way that I like to think about my own individual change is here's what I'm gonna continue, here's what I'm gonna start doing, here's what I'm gonna stop doing, and then I'm also gonna do this to hold myself accountable. Maybe I'm gonna put something on my calendar, maybe I'm gonna share it with my coworker or my leader. So if you find that helpful for an action plan, feel free to use that. I'm gonna wrap us up by taking it back to our values. You know, we started with this, I wanna end with this, is that today really is about each of us embracing our values and embracing these two specifically around embracing differences, but also being transparent, trusted, and looking at like, hey, if I live these out with my coworkers and colleagues, what's that gonna look like when it comes time for me to have these courageous conversations? And if you're ever wondering like how I should structure my courageous conversation, I would encourage you to go to this slide faster than you go to the script that I provided you. Like just go to this values and go, how do I need to show up in this conversation that's going to demonstrate that I'm listening with empathy, to your point earlier, I'm expecting civility and collegiality, I'm going to be honest, I'm going to believe in the good intentions of others, like I'm going to do those things in a way that shows up well. Okay. What's most crucial is that we want to connect, we want to understand, want to have a deep conversation, even when it's hard, hard and scary. And then I will end here with the same thing I started with, is that the right conversation at the right moment can change everything. So guys, thank you all very much for your time. I'll hand it over to Melissa.