Determining your Marketing Budget from a Startup to a Million Dollar Clinic with Neil Trickett

Coming back to the startup there.

Startup.

Yeah, I, I would just say like, okay, if I want to make 200,000 this year, I've got to allocate probably anywhere from 15 to 25% depending on your area. Like if you're in a real, you know, urban setting with super competitive, you're going to have to put a little bit more to get yourself up and running versus a rural area.

How to get smarter in business and in life. This is the question and I'm on a journey to get you that answer. I'm going to interview the world's top entrepreneurs and deconstruct their winning secrets. Going to talk about everything from marketing, money and living a bucket list life. I'm Rick Lau, healthcare entrepreneur. I grew and exited my 127 locations in my 30s. Welcome to the clinic boss show. What's going on my friend?

Keeping busy.

Good busy or bad busy?

Good busy. Yeah, lots of good things happening. So that's good. Yeah, we're working with our own, own kind of new coach with founders board. That's Ryan Dyson, Digital marketers.

Oh, no way.

Yeah.

So it was scalable? Like is it scalable?

There you go. Yeah, yeah.

Cool, cool. So are you working like just in one of their masterminds or like how does it work?

Yeah, so it was starting one of their intensives, kind of upgrading our operating system as they say it. And then. Yeah, they're kind of a mastermind group. So. Yeah.

How involved are they versus like you? Them doing it for you versus like you. How do I say it? You doing all the work and like talking to other people and figuring it out, you know.

Oh, what's good is I can have up to seven of my managers on there. So that's very helpful.

Right.

I want to get them trained. So I'm not doing it right. Or at least I'm involved but not doing it all. Yeah. And they have, you know, good templates, lots of templates, you know, to kind of work off of.

Okay. Working over that and then the templates for the business. Not necessary for the marketing agency. Right?

Correct. Okay. Yeah, it's going well.

Yeah. Wow.

We just started really. So, so far.

Yeah, No, I, Yeah, it's. It's so funny. There's so many of these business coaches out there and they all kind of offer is very similar things and the amount of dms I get, I'm like, oh my gosh, you know, like I just want someone to come in to do it for you.

Right. Yeah.

I don't hire a hired Gun to work with, like, my VP and just figure it out, please, you know? Right. I don't want. I don't want your templates to myself.

Yeah, well, that's the nice thing, too. I mean, we have basically, like, a meeting. Meeting cadence of about every. Every couple of weeks.

Okay. With the team, like one on one or with, like, a group?

Well, no. One on one. Okay. One on one with their. With their. With their coach. And basically they're kind of making sure that we run through the sequence of stuff. Right.

Okay.

So it's going. That's good. And, you know, kind of giving examples and. And those kind of things to my team. So that. That's the nice part.

And okay.

Resorts there.

Yeah.

So so far, so good with that.

And how much is that program? Like, 30,000, 40,000?

Yeah, it was about. Well, yeah, it was about 35 or so with the mastermind and everything. Like, four. Four events and that kind of stuff, too. So.

So are you Ryan Dice fan? Like. Like, did you implement?

I always followed Ryan. Yeah. Like traffic and conversion summits and those kind of things. So it's all right following that. And yeah, what I wanted to do, too, was, you know, just keep learning from people that are bigger. And the nice thing with the. Their group, too, is there's companies in there. They're like fifty million, a hundred million companies. So it's, you know, different scale. Yeah.

Like, where I, you know, learn from them 100%. So. Wow. I guess the webinar. I guess the podcast started already, so I guess. So this is exactly what we're gonna talk about. Oh, geez. Geez. You know what? Like, it's. It's. I've been doing a few things. One, I find it that, like, the best talks are usually the ones before I start pressing play. So now I've decided that the play starts the moment we start.

I love it.

Oh, geez. Actually, actually, on that note, Neil, who would you say is your top, like, you know, marketers that you look up to? You know, you mentioned Ryan Dice. You know, who else is out there that you're like? Like, you know, like you're a fanboy or you're like, oh, wow. Like, I love, like, you know, I love. I love their marketing, you know, and their insight. And I'm like, you know, and. And yeah, where they're going or. Or companies as well, because, you know, like HubSpot, for example.

Right? Yeah, yeah. So there's big companies like HubSpot. They have put out amazing content. They've always put out, you Know really great stuff. I've. I've read their. Actually their VP of sales put together a really good book too just on like hiring and all kinds of sales processes there that they did to establish HubSpot. So that, that's a really good book also. Yeah, I like following also. You know, I like marketing but also like sales side of things too. Been handling sales for a long time.

So give me a list.

Jeremy Miner is one of my favorite there. Jeremy Miner?

Jeremy Miner. No, no.

Yeah, he's with his company's called 7th Level Sales Training and. Okay. Based a lot of, A lot of stuff based off of neuro kind of neuropsychology and those kind of things.

Oh, this is the, this is the physio in you now. Like you want the science, you want the science aspect.

Science. Yeah. Not the stuff. So yeah, I like his stuff a lot. He has some great ways just I think that that cover any kind of business. Right. And you know, whether you're a medical practice or you're selling, you know, widgets, you need, your team needs to know how to sell. And a lot of it, it's just, it's not, you know, and people have gotten used to that kind of, you know, used car salesman mentality. Right.

But such a dirty word like.

But the reality is that you're just helping people. Right. And it's a lot of. It's how you're using questions, right. To, to get them through a decision process. Right. Same thing we do with our patients all the time, right?

Right.

We ask a lot of questions to get through a decision process.

Well, we talk about this a lot. Like, you know, you're constantly selling whether like you know it or not. Like you're selling your vision. When you hire someone, you're selling for that physio or that Cairo to come work for you. Right. You're selling that patient that plan of care for them to book like their 10 visits, not the three. You know, you're selling that you're actually the best provider for their actually paying, you know, and you're, and you're, and you're, you're selling, you know, you know, at your staff meetings to get your staff to like align for like what's going to happen next year. And so like the people who actually don't understand that and they're like, I don't like to sell. Like I'm like, well you're not a business person there.

Yeah. And it's almost like if you think about some. Sometimes if you think about marketing in a Way, right. You're really selling online, right? Or selling, you know, the. The attraction to you, right? What you're trying to help people solve problems and question. And help them with questions. And a lot of times, some of the best marketing content and copy asks a lot of questions in there. So have you thought about it this way or you thought about that way? Right. You know, is your back. Could it be this? Cause, Right. So it gets people thinking in a different direction.

That's cool. Yeah. I'm a. I'm a marketing and sales geek. You know, I think I'm more of a marketing geek, but it's turned into more of a sales geek. But I remember my first marketing conference I went to was HubSpot, right?

Yeah.

So I went to the HubSpot inbound conference. There's 14,000 marketers. It was like this candy shop for marketers, right? And so that was when I went there, I was like, oh, my gosh. You know, like, I get it. Marketing automation. And then, like, you know that funnel that everyone uses, like, everywhere in their business? Right. Like inbound.

Right.

And that was, like, the beginning of my marketing. I was like, oh, my God, this is, like, insane. You know, and then, like, and. And so I love all the, like, HubSpot inbound stuff. You know, we're. We're using them. They're very expensive. You know, I spend a lot of money with them right now. You know, it's a very expensive marketing system. And then. And then I got into. I got into, like, clickfunnels, right? You know, so then I ended up being, like, a Russell Brunson fanboy, you know, like, you know, and this whole thing is about how do you position yourself as an expert, you know, to build a tribe in a community, and then all these people, like, follow you and, like, and I loved it to a T. And I was like, well, this is amazing, you know? Right. And then the third thing, you know, more recently, I got into Alex. Is it her Mosey?

I don't think I've heard of that person before.

Oh, my gosh. This guy's the new one. Yes. This guy is insane. If you, if you. If you follow him, you know, on Instagram, like, he's just built this massive, like, brand. Like, he has, like, a couple of million, like, Instagram, like, followers, and he teaches people how to sell. Right? And, and, and. And we're. We're doing some of this stuff right now. Part of, like, you know, part of, like, the way he sells now, is he, like, really, you know, like, he has this thing where like, you know, there's four types of like people you go after and one of them is called warm outreach. Right. But for the warm outreach, he's like a bit proponent of like just selling through DMS and just like small quick conversations through like through email.

Yeah.

So like most. So in essence you're pretty much selling or marketing or qualifying that lead before they actually call your business or they jump on a demo with your sales team, right?

Yeah.

And like this. And the scripts that use are super small. It's more like DM style versus your typical. Yeah, you know, Ryan Dice or Dan Kennedy or like, you know, like those long direct mail. You're like, oh my God, like I gotta keep on scrolling.

I think that, you know, there's there a. You kind of have to look at the behaviors of people, right? That's really what you're, you're doing with marketing is kind of modifying people's behaviors, right? So if you, if you really know the people that the first rule is, right, know your audience, right? Who you're trying to talk to. So if you know your audience and let's say, you know, if you're in a clinic, right, Say if you're really trying to target a lot of athletes, young athletes, high school athletes, college athletes, all those kind of folks, right? You got to go where they're at and they're going to be a lot on social media, but they, they've got a, you know, attention span of like one second. So those, you know that, that kind of DM style, right, where it's like one, one question, two questions in there or you know, a flash of a tidbit, something like that, that's what they're looking for, right? So you gotta match them where they're at and then they start to have those like, oh, let me see what this person's about. Yeah, they'll go do the research and then they can get into long form copy from there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's exactly it. You know, we've been testing stuff. It's been, it's been, it's, it's been pretty cool, you know, so for the people don't know Neil, you know, Neil is a practice owner, but he's also has helped over like 1400 like clinics, you know, like have their website and their marketing. And, and so I'm just curious ne, you know, like, like what are some of the marketing trends that you're seeing right now, like in the profession, you know, like for the clinic owners, like what are the things that clinic owners need to like kind of pay attention. That are trends that are happening, you know.

Yeah. Especially in the medical space. There's this definitely the trend towards digital advertising. Right. And if we look at where Facebook has gone, if we look at where Instagram has gone, if we look at where Google has gone, they make their money by getting people to pay for ads, right? So if you think about the old days, used to have you know, a billboard or park bench or something like that where you put your stuff up. You know, in today's world it's really about the digital advertising side of it. And you know, back in the first days of Facebook it was really about building groups and building your community there and you had great opportunities to get in front of people. But of course, you know that, that got bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. So Facebook only shows you to a certain small percentage of, you know, your total potential audience because their model is to get you to pay. Right. So if you can, if you can start to really, you know, master and budget for where digital advertising fits into your practice, that can really start to get you in front of a lot of people in your community and. But it's using them in a wise way, right. So you know, with, when it comes to social media type advertising, you know, the goal there is really kind of a broad more awareness because you are com. You are playing where people go for entertainment, right? So they're not necessarily looking for that solution at a specific spot but they, they come across your ad, they come across your information, they start to go oh, what's this? Right? And then they, you can move them down into some other know, mechanism to a landing page or your website or some way to start connecting with you. With Google advertising, that's when people are looking for some sort of solution or idea. So it's a little bit more intent based, you know, search.

So I think we talked about a couple of weeks ago too where like Google is like intent based. So people are saying I want this solution comes up, you know, whereas like, like you said you're on social media where the Facebook you're scrolling down, it's like, what do they call it? Like interruption marketing. So you got to interrupt them while they're enjoying looking family photos of like, you know, like they're, they're like creeping on their, you know, like on their, you know, old high school loving and you got to have something that interrupts them to look at your ad. Right? You know.

Absolutely. Yeah. So I mean I, I've, you know, I've been in an entrepreneur now for like gosh, 24, 23 years. Right. So seen a lot change in that time. Gosh, when I started with like I did my own website, you know, there was no Facebook or anything like that. And then working with practices in their marketing for over 13 years now, huge changes in the landscape there. What I'm really excited about is that I do see more and more practice owners paying attention to what their digital presence looks like. Right. And so they're not necessarily just looking at what the one thing. Right. I'm not just looking at Facebook advertising. I'm looking at how my whole practice looks online. Right.

Because all these channels. Right. You know.

Right, all the channels. Right. And, and if you think about too.

For listen, Neil, like, like what would those channels be? Like what are. When you talk about it, you know, like what would you say are the top five that everyone should like, like a must have, you know, because there's a lot and you could get, you could like, you could get super overwhelmed of, you know, like where to start, you know.

Yeah, I, I think for practice 102, like keep it simple. Right. So think about first off is your website. That's like your digital online storefront. So you know, if people walking by in, in the physical world, if you don't have a very nice storefront, it's not going to attract people into the business. So your, your website really is sort of this foundation of everything else that works. So your website really needs to showcase your patient experience what you do for people. And then there's a lot of complex side of it too to like how that gets searched. But you know, your website is really that foundation. And then I would say start to work on your different, you know, key local type search profile. So Google Business profile is huge. That's a, we talked about that in our last chat there. But that's a key area for you to work on it. Super simple, lots of pictures, make sure all your information there, keep posting fresh content.

If you put, if you put as much energy as doing Instagram, that doesn't work. And you put in Google my business profile, right?

Absolutely.

You would get the calls and traffic to your website. Would you agree?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think, I think, you know, in the past, let's say the past, you know, five or seven years, there was a lot of excitement around, you know, social media being newer and great way to connect with people. And it was easier back then than it is today to connect with people. Right. You didn't have to pay as Much for it, but that's changed. Right. But Google Business profile is a very underutilized tool that very easy for practice owners to leverage. Right. So there's that one. And of course you want to have good social profiles. Right. Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn is a key area too. We talked about Google reviews.

All three are essential. Or like you could just get away with Instagram and, or just LinkedIn.

It depends on your audience. Right. So I mean if you're going to be. A lot of practices work with middle aged people and up. Right. And they have some like younger demographics that they work with.

But product 35, 50. Right.

Yeah, I mean we all start to get older. Arthritis, you know, things start to happen. Right. You're more brittle as you get older. You know, we're all feeling that, but that's one of the key things. So Facebook ends up being a better resource for some of those type of clinics. Right. So you may not want to put all your efforts into just Instagram because your audience is playing still a lot on Facebook. So yeah, Facebook, LinkedIn I think again is an area where that is pretty underutilized in a, in a clinic. So people are wanting to recruit more today than ever before. Yeah, that's a great place for you to really build out your profile. Connect with other therapists in the area that could come work for you. Right. The other part of LinkedIn that I liked is a lot of physicians are on there. So if you want to build your physician network, you don't even have to like go past the front, front desk. You can start talking, you know, send a direct, a direct mail LinkedIn wise to a physician that you may know have wanted to chat to for a long time. So I think LinkedIn is an area that could be used more by clinicians, practice owners for sure.

There, yeah, A lot of, a lot of people in our community use like LinkedIn for recruitment but also to do more like collaborations with different other businesses. Whether it's content collaboration or like they are doing marketing collaboration together. Yeah. And, and yeah, the doctor marketing stuff. Right. You know, for, for the, for the ones who are actually in there. Right. So what else like is that. Would you say that those five is the key basics? Yeah, yeah.

And of course we, you know, we get into what we want to work with, with our, you know, patient communications and, and keeping our, building our community right. Of people that we service and leveraging those for referrals and, and repeat business. And that a lot of that comes back to email marketing. So having a very good email System that has automation that can help you out but also great content that you can keep connected with and build upon. Your, your patient list, right? Your, your business list. Yeah.

I'm curious, what's the crappiest like marketing or website you've seen lately? Oh man, the crappiest.

The crappiest.

Gosh, you don't have to put names right but like I'm sure you guys, I'm sure this comes up like each week when you look at like customers profiles, you know, like what, how they do marketing or how they one comes.

To mind and, and you know it's funny because they, it really looks like it was built from 2005, you know, probably on, on some old ancient Microsoft software platform. But the person, what I hear sometimes is especially from local, smaller rural communities that they've had a good, you know, just name, they've been there forever and they're like oh, I never had to market before, right. So I just had my website done 15 years ago and I've never touched it since. So yeah, occasionally get one of those.

DoS based websites, you know where it's like just text based with like the yellow and blue, you know, like is that what.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Any kind of like square frame, you know, like there's the sides to it and everything.

Yeah, I see a lot of websites have that. Like, like do you see because you work with chirophysios and massage. Like do you like of all the profession, of these three professions who have the most like outdated websites? You think, are they all equally pretty outdated?

It's a mixed bag. It really is. Okay. What I do find is that the clinics that are multidisciplined, that have Cairo, they have physio, they have acupuncture, like all these different things within them, they tend to, they tend to be a little bit more advanced, right? They're.

Because they probably have more revenue coming in the clinic.

Yeah, there's a little bit more revenue. They know, they know they need to market for the different disciplines within the business because there's more demand right. For marketing there. So I do see that they tend to be a little bit more, you know, on the cutting edge if you will.

And Neil. What? Like I've seen so much crappy websites, you know, even like, like I, I'll tell you two types of crappy websites that I see, right. You know, like I'm not talking, I'm not going to talk about the DoS based websites, you know, because you know, like those ones are like ancient. Like those ones I Agree. But like, I've seen modern websites that are crappy, you know? Right? And, and, and, and, and one comes to mind is like, you know, like there's this like stock photo that everyone uses. It's like this Asian runner running along the street with like hair and she's young and like she looks like half Asian or she's like, you know what I'm talking about everywhere. But then also if you, you'll see her like in cooking ads too, you'll see. And so I'm just like, I'm like, when I see people like spend all this money building a website and it's just littered with like stock photos and they don't real show real photos of the people behind the business of what really happens. I'm like, why? You know, like, you know, it's, it's like, you know, like. Yeah. And once again, like, I'm. Every time I see stock photos, I cringe, you know, so I want to hear what, hear your thoughts. Like, what's your thoughts about what does that have? Stock photos versus like real authentic photos. Right?

The more authentic you can make your website, the more people you're going to attract. That's just the bottom line. And we love working with practices that put the effort into getting the photography and the videography within the clinic. You have to. And what I. There's this kind of. It almost falls into two categories of practice owners that come across. One is the kind of overwhelmed trying to do everything themselves and they really don't have much time or effort that they're putting in the market. And like, you just do everything for me, right? So you really don't have any ammo to work with because they haven't caught, you know, built any ammo internally. And then you have to use a lot of stock photography, right? And they don't really care that much about the content in there. And they just kind of like, hey, it looks pretty, looks good. It's going to get me a lot of new patients. Then you got the other category, which are really involved and done a fantastic job. They know that capturing that essence of what's going on in their practice to show and have that ammunition for marketing is really key. So they put a lot of effort into getting pictures within the clinic. Therapists working with patients, you know, they do a lot of effort in YouTube videos, all kinds of different things like that, that those clinics do. Fantastic. Because again, when people are looking at those websites, they're like, hey, this is a real place that looks amazing. Look at how they're treating those patients, they could, they could help me.

Yeah. Like when you see that photo, you're like, hey, that could be me. Or is like, yep, I want to see that person, you know?

Yeah. So as a practice owner, I think one thing to understand is like, you know, you can't not, you cannot be hands off with marketing in your practice. Right. You, you work with a website company, you work with a marketing agency to help you. Yeah. You know, with the technical stuff to portray your vision. But there's also a responsibility on you to showcase, you know, your specialties and your practice and what you're all about. Tell your story out there to the world.

Yeah, yeah. So the second website, the second types of websites I hate, Neil, are the ones where they built it. So, so visually, like, it looks like a, it looks like a tech business, you know, it looks like there's no, there's no words. Everything is just like fonts, you know, and, and it just looks beautiful and like things kind of move around.

Yeah.

But Google can't find you.

Right.

Like, there's no content on there for them to crawl.

So. So like, it's great.

You got this beautiful website that has videos and, and like things like move and it feels good.

Right.

You know, but there's no content on there that has any marketing principles. Sales principle. And it's like. And Google can't search anything on it because there's no, there's no, there's no copy on there. Like. Neil, you agree or no?

Absolutely. You know, you can have a beautiful website, but that's only half of it. Right. And you're saying Google's not going to find you. It's not going to connect with people that are. Well, first if they do find you and visit you, then they're not going to connect very well. It's going to look pretty, but that comes back to like the company that's done or, you know, they might have someone who's very, as a graphic designer, really into that kind of flavor. Right. And they don't really have the kind of marketing background to understand SEO content, you know, sales type, copy. So you're missing that component. You just have this, this prettiness branded.

Website, you know, like built like Nike or Apple.

Yes.

That's a good example. It's like an Apple, it's like an Apple website, you know.

Yeah.

Right.

It's just stay away from a company that's all about branding because that's, you're gonna blow a lot of money and not get, you know, much out of it.

So let me ask you, would you rather have a shitty website that has high traffic? You know, right, Like. You know, right? Like an ugly website that has high traffic, or like this beautiful branded website that has no traffic?

I wouldn't want either, but if I had to, I would go with the law of numbers, right? So if you get the volume of people in there, you're going to get a certain percentage of people that will call the clinic and move forward. But ideally you need the best of both worlds. You need the. You need the type of website that it's going to get the traffic in there because it has the right content, it has the right structure, the coding, all those kind of things that Google really likes. And then it can really speak to the person, be patient, centric, right? Speak to their pains and problems, show them. The main thing with the website too, is that you have to be able to show the person's transformation by coming to you. That's really it, right? So if you can portray that with the right imagery, the language, the titles, the content, like you show that transformation they're going to have by coming to you, you're going to have the phones ringing off the hook.

Yeah, that's interesting. So, yeah, when, like, if I was to think about, if I was going to ask myself that question, I would, I would have that website that has a, a shitload of traffic, that's a shitty website, you know, because then I could at least convert it into like something more.

Do something with it.

Yeah, I could do something with it. Right. So if, if you're, if you're, if you're. So anyways, like, the reason I bring this up is that, like, you know, like, you know, I think you share. I shared my journey with Pain Hero. Like Pain Hero, you know, Pain Hero, you know, which is a, like a, you know, website that we started a few years ago. Like last. Last week we hit 10,000 unique visitors a week, right? So in a month it's 40,000. Right, yeah. And we went with that principle, Neil. We went for traffic first, right? And now we're like, okay, now let's work on conversions, let's work on making it more branded and beautiful. And so like, my advice, you know, obviously like an ideal where you weren't both, right. You know, but like, as a marketer, I hands on one traffic first and then like, once I get the traffic, I'm gonna find a way to like, convert it and like, you know, like, do it. But like, if I could get the traffic, it doesn't matter. How great and beautiful my website is because it's not going to do anything, anything. And like I'm gonna be like, there's no roi, Right?

Yeah, I think too, like you just, you know, what you're looking at there is, is the metrics, right? You really have to look at the metrics of your website because it's easy for us to fall in love with our website. We like it and we're, we're, we're seeing it from our viewpoint. But we really gotta look at the numbers. Like so how many people are coming to it on a monthly basis, how many, how long are they staying on the page? How many pages are they looking at? How many people from that are actually, you know, clicking on the book appointment link, how many people are calling from that website? So if we have that kind of data, that information, it can tell us a lot about, hey, is this website one bringing a lot of people to it? And if it is, how many of those people actually going to be turning into a customer?

Yeah. Hey, Neil, it's interesting, like you, you, you, you just threw a lot of metrics. As marketers, like I love as many as metric as possible. Right. But I would say that for majority of these clinic owners, the only metric, I would say that they really care at the end of the day, at least that's what we preach on a community, is how many leads do they generate, you know, Right. In the different channels. Right? You know, right. And so that's marketing's job. How many calls or how many forms or how many online bookings did they actually get through your marketing across all the different like platforms, you know, and you can start measuring what is my cost per call or cost per lead, you know, like is a 30 bucks or a 50 bucks, right? You know?

Yeah.

And then the next component is that like, you know, you know, like marketing, you know, whether you use Neil's agency or someone else's, like they generate you like 100 leads last month, right? What did your front desk do to convert those leads into appointments? Are they closing at five out of the 10 calls or they closing eight of those 10 calls? Because I see a lot of blame that marketing doesn't work. Or like, you know, marketing agencies don't work. You know, like they say my, they say my like impressions are up, my click through rates are up, my unique visitors, you know, but my appointment is still empty. Yeah, right. Or my schedule is not there. And, and I think a lot of times the owners don't take that responsibility. Oh my God. Like when it comes to, like, sales and front desk, like, conversions. Like, that's on you, right?

Yeah, it's. It's kind of two front there. Because there are, you know, I see it. There's a, There's a lot of company. Everybody and their mother seems to have a digital, you know, marketing agency. It's pretty simple to do these days from a very small standpoint. And what, what, what you'll get there is like, hey, we'll get you, you know, 50 leads in this month. Right. You know, and you can just put a. A form up on, you know, your Facebook ad, and you're getting some, some leads coming in there. You know, they're counting that, but it's a lot of people that have no interest really, in what you're doing. They just kind of signed up for.

Something at least from Russia or 50 leads from, like, India. Right, right.

I got you all these leads, right? They're. They're out in Uzbekistan.

They're not qualified.

So you have to. You have to kind of watch that too, because you can't get a lot of leads in.

But, you know, the quality of the leads.

Yeah, the quality of leads is like, they have no interest. Right. Those people have no interest in coming in. So, yeah, your front desk can't convert those people. Right. But you have the people that come in that are decent lead. You're absolutely right that your front desk is a critical point. Can they sell, you know, that person coming into you, you know, based off of, you know, their. What they're shopping around their pain and problem condition insurance that they might have all these kind of factors. Right. They have to be able to over overcome those barriers.

Yeah. Wow, that was some massive gems there. You know, what's some of the, like, best, like, patient marketing you've seen lately, you know, that you want to share, like, what. What you've seen some clinics or practices do that kind of caught your ir.

Yeah, I was actually, I did a podcast yesterday with David Lot. Right. And so lot physical therapy and they're in Texas. And he. He's done a phenomenal job. He's got a great mindset for patient experience. And I love the way that he's approached this. A lot of. This kind of fundamental why. Of why we're doing this in the clinic.

Right.

So explaining that to his team, like, why are we doing this?

Right.

We're trying to really get people out of pain and like, we need to. We need to help the, you know, the community understand, like, how we're helping all these people. So he's done a really good job. I think he's got like 800 online reviews for his clinics. Right. Which is amazing. Right? I really don't. I rarely see that volume of reviews for clinic. But he's got a really good mechanisms, you know, internally just for, you know, keeping the team. And it's not, it's not like, hey, we have to get a lot of Google reviews. It's. He's kind of built. Baked it more into his process with, hey, here's how we help people. He had cool things like QR codes on the name badges, people so that the patient could just scan the QR code on their name badge to go like all kinds of cool stuff that he did. So yeah, I have a podcast coming out on that with his interview. But that's one of the coolest things I've seen in a while.

Um, the QR codes, like the campaign itself or.

Yeah, yeah, kind of the QR codes. The, the, the really more of the, you know, obviously it has some, has some great automation softwares and tools and systems from an email perspective. But the, the key with online reviews too is really when you're asking it. So not necessarily waiting till the end of therapy for people to ask, but more of when they've had that big transformation, you know, visit, like might be halfway through, like, hey, I'm out of pain now. This is amazing. They're not quite strong yet or whatever. But yeah, first big win, right? That first big win. Yeah. So he's got a great process that he's really built out over time for that. So that's one of the best I've seen in a while.

What about from a lead gen side about getting leads?

From a lead gen side of things? I've seen clinics. We have some, some pa. Some clients that have done really well with Google Ads. They get very high quality traffic in there. It's kind of like this twofold. One is that their website is doing very good at converting people and it's also then very well ranked on Google. That makes their cost very low per click and conversion from their Google Ads. And so when they have those kind of best of both worlds where their Google Ads are really dialed in and then their website's really dialed in. From an SEO standpoint, the cost per lead has been very low and their, their volume of leads coming in from that has been quite high.

Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, it sounds like all the, all the different like pathways and channels are like very optimized, you know?

Right, Absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah. Have you heard of stretch Labs before Neil.

Yeah, there's actually one that's coming down the street for me.

Okay. Do you understand the business model or no?

I have not really looked into that business model, but a good stretching sounds good to me.

We have someone in our community who is a franchise partner and he's opening up a few more. And like, it's insane, like, how they market and their growth. Right. And if you understand their model is it's really just assisted stretching by non professionals. They just hire like. Like, I don't want to Basri. Because they just hire like non medical people like that.

Like a personal trainer type certificate.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And you pay them whatever, like 20, 30 bucks an hour, you know, and they just do like, assisted stretching.

It's a great concept. Yeah.

And then like, and then when they market, like, people get it, right? Like, you know, like when you market physical therapy, people are like, huh, Right? Or like when you market, like chiropractics, you know, like what, you know, like, like you associate with, like, you know, like, you know, like wrecking your spine or something, right? Or, you know, which is not. Ne. Is not true. But like, there's. Or like physical therapy, they don't know what that is. You know, massage they get, you know, it's like, yeah, you do this right? You know, but when the. When they market, like, stretch labs, they're like, I get it.

I could do a stretch.

Just like what you said, I could do stretch.

You know, everybody knows that they feel better after stretching.

Yeah. This, this. This franchise owner that I knew, like, all he did was just like a few Facebook ads and did community events and just did these, like, assisted stretching, like, demos, like, and. And in six months, they started from scratch and hit a million. Wow. It was insane. That's awesome. Do you ever hear a, like a clinic do that?

Oh, no, no. Because, yeah, I mean, you got one simple concept, right? And then. And. And so, yeah, it doesn't matter really what body part, the concept is stretching, right? So stretching to feel better.

Check out this clever ad that they had, you know? You know, so this showed up. Like, this is in their Instagram. Like, but check this out.

It's funny too, like, because it's like people can relate to.

Imagine, like, can you imagine you scrolling and you see like all of a sudden, like, your calendar and this, like, totally, like, look at this. Look what it says here, right?

Lay down and try to ignore the pain.

Isn't this so clever?

It's a clever one. I love it.

This is so clever. And I'm just Like, you know, like. And so you're having like. And here's the thing, like why, I think like whether you're a physical therapist or chiropractic massage therapist, you really have to up up your like marketing because you got everyone else that are trying to creep into your space. You know, every single allied healthcare person is solving the exact same thing. Because people are not buying physical therapy, they're not buying chiropractic, they're buying like a solution to like their back pain because they won't play pickleball again. Right?

Absolutely.

And stretch labs is a solution or Cairo or a physio or a naturopath or a osteopath or a, or a body worker.

Right?

Yeah. Or even a foot massage therapist. Like, you know, one of those ghetto ones you see from like, you know. Yeah. Anyways, like those Thai ones, right. Or the Chinese that charge 20 bucks, you know, an hour, right? They're all going after the same pool of like people, no?

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

And so the marketing, like, you know, the marketing is a big deal, right.

I think a concept like that would be fantastic to bring into, you know, a clinic. Right. Because one thing I've always seen clinics struggle with is, you know, they provide that service for, for a specific set of time. Right. You know, you might be in for like three, four weeks and you're, you're out of your injury and you're, you know, then you're like, okay, bye, bye. Right. But you need to get like you, we all want to keep that person on to get them, you know, keep working on their strength, keep working on their flexibility. So if you had something like a stretch labs built within to your practice, it's a great subscription model for people to continue care.

Yes.

Right. Super simple too.

Yeah.

It's what a lot of people want.

So, yeah, we got, we got a few clinics in our community who are using, call it stretch clinics or stretch labs as like lead gen, but also as a subscription based, you know. Right, yeah, yeah.

Fantastic.

Yeah, yeah. It's kind of like a, kind of a good hook, you know. So let's talk about marketing budget. Okay. As a marketing agency, like, of course you want them to spend a lot, but tactically, not everyone has money to do it. Okay, so let's talk and I get this question a lot. Like everyone is fixated on a percentage, you know, you know, Rick, what percentage should I spend on marketing? Right. You know, and, and then, and then, you know, but like, I wanna, I wanna hear from you. Right? And, and there's two Things I want you to consider. Right. One, when I think about marketing, I'm thinking about both online and offline. Okay. Like the whole budget, you know. Right, yeah.

You know, salaries.

And, and, and the second thing we need to consider is the different stages the business is in, you know. Right?

Yeah.

Like, you know, like, you know like a startup is gonna spend their marketing very different because like they are losing money and like, you know, and, and they gotta pay the bills or they can't pay mortgage or rent, you know. So the ROI needs to like happen, you know, otherwise like they're dead in the water. Right. You know. Right. And then it's going to be like, you know, your clinic that hits your first like half a million. So that's kind of your break even point, you know. Right. And then, and then the next stage is where they go from five to a million and then million beyond. Right. So let's talk about a startup. Okay. You know, so Neil, like what if I have a clinic owner that comes to me and says, hey, I'm starting up a clinic. What should I allocate for marketing for like a startup? Like you know, what, what would you say?

Yeah. So I'm a fan of percentages. If, and there's factors here. Right. So you need to know like what, what is typical in a business? Like what do businesses typically spend towards their marketing? So you have that understanding and are you comparative to that? Marketing always comes back to your return on investment. So you need to know what is working and if you're wasting money on things that are not working, then don't do those. Right. But do, do put money into what is going to work and what's going to get you off the ground. A startup is going to be the time when you're going to spend the most marketing dollars to the percentage of what you're bringing in. And we're all kind of bootstrapping it through this phase. Right. But no one knows you in the area. Right. You got to get out of this unknown situation. So it's going to take a little bit of money towards that. And where I've seen practices struggle is when they really try to just do everything themselves. They, they haven't allocated really any budget towards marketing and they just think, hey, I'm going to get going and I'll just go by word of mouth. Now some, some clinicians can make that happen if they're exceptional clinician and a good, you know, salesperson. Another struggle, right. The ones I have seen be super successful is they, they do put that marketing budget into their business plan. Like, how am I going to get started up here? What is my income that I want to make in my first year of practice? You know, maybe it's a hundred thousand, maybe it's $200,000.

Okay, well let's say it's 200,000. Like, you know.

Yeah, let's just say it's 200,000.

So how should they allocate $200,000?

Yeah. So again, coming back to a percentage wise industry in, in the United States, the Small Business association, across all different industries, the average is about 11% of what a business makes goes towards marketing activities. Right. Whether it's advertising, salaries, those kind of things. Right. In healthcare, the average is about 8%. Right. Now with a startup business, are your.

Client, are your 1400 clients doing 8% or are you.

Some are, some are not.

Okay.

I would say as a rule what I find is that most practices are really very under 5%. They're usually like 2%. Right.

They're. So you think, you think all your clients, if you add all up, they're probably 2, 3%, is that what you're saying?

I'd say a bit more than that. Our clients are, they get into that power position. But like ones that are, that are coming in there may be around, you know, 2 or 3%. Right. That's kind of what can average there. But I would say coming back to the startup there.

Startup. Yeah.

I would just say like, okay, if I want to make 200,000 this year, I've got to allocate probably anywhere from 15 to 25% depending on your area. Like if you're in a real, you know, urban setting with super competitive, you're going to have to put a little bit more to get yourself up and running versus a rural area where you can do some more community based stuff.

15 to 25%. Let's put this in perspective too. The profit margin of a clinic is like what in the, in the, in the US is probably like 20%, you know, or less. Yeah.

So, so if you 10, 15 maybe.

Yeah. So if you're asking for 15, like I'm, I'm tr. I'm trying to be devil's advocate. Right?

Oh, I hear you. Yeah. The first year is always the hardest. Right.

Okay, actually let's back up. You're right. Like what we're talking about is very different. Like once you're a million dollar business. But let's go back to startup because I think I'm jumping ahead at jump up. I agree. In the very Beginning you do have to spend a whack load of money so you could get new patients the door so you could get busy enough so that like you can actually generate word of mouth. Right, you know?

Right, yeah.

Because you don't generate word of mouth. Yeah. You know, because word of mouth usually happens after you, you like they come see you like, you know, like after a couple years, you know, like it's not like you're seeing them every, like every, like every month, you know, you see them.

But this thing, there's things that you're going to invest in that are, that are going to last a little while. So for example, like you know a startup business, you got to get a good website going.

So like don't, what would you do Website.

Don't do a wix website from the start and, and click funnels website.

What about clickfunnels website? I'm joking, I'm joking, I'm joking. All right, so you gotta get so.

Spend on a website from the start, but that, that investment is something that's going to pay, you know, two or three years. Right?

Okay, let me ask you, so is the website like, like once again I'm trying to like I want to make sure that like as a startup like I'm making a boat, like I could pay the bills too, right? You know? Yeah, I want something roi. And so the, a lot of times I get the questions like yes, I could get a website, but should I wait to do my SEO? Right. Because like to spend money for SEO is also an investment where like you're not gonna get an ROI right away. So would you say that a startup should do SEO in addition to a website or you should wait and, and so that like they could do stuff that will give you more of a media roi.

So yeah, so there's a, the thing here is it's you're talking a long term game game versus a short term game. All right. So putting the website together is critical, right? That's your online storefront.

Yeah.

Your SEO can get you a lot, but it takes a little bit of time. All right. Especially as a brand new business. Google's got to start to trust you, right? No, no, it's something that you could really get going within about a three to six month period if it's a small local practice. Right?

Yes. With no competition. Yes, I agree.

I mean we've helped some startups and they, they, they're up at number one, you know, within about three to six months.

Okay, so so are you, it depends.

On the Area depends on the area.

That out of your 15, 25% like budget you should do SEO. Is that what you're saying?

Website SEO. And, and so here's the thing. SEO is going to help you pay off in three to six months time. Okay.

Okay. What else?

Google. Google Ads is something that you could start and within a month you're starting to see the Google Ads. Yeah. And then of course, you know, you've got Facebook ads, those kind of things too. That could start that too. So those are kind of your short term gain. Short, short term.

Seeing effective conversions through Facebook ads.

Like to be honest, I mean, not like you used to. I mean if I was to say if you're going to put the money, because we have that limited amount of money at the beginning, we got limited.

Amount of money because I put it.

In Google Ads because that's where people are going.

Intent.

Intent based search.

Yeah. Okay. What up? So that's all online, you know. What about offline?

Yeah, offline there's what community or you.

Don'T believe in offline because you're an online company?

No, we do, do. We do 4 million direct mail pieces a year for practices all around the country. So we do a lot of direct mail, you know, prescription pads, things that people will hand out. So yeah, I mean have good collateral material. Like you need a good brochure, you need good script pads. You can start, you know, knocking on physicians doors, making rounds, making relationships, that.

So this, so this is community marketing.

Yeah, community marketing.

Right, many marketing. And which includes what then in this case?

So that would be business networks.

Right.

So like chamber of commerce and all that kind of stuff. What can they link back to your website? Where can you develop relationships with other partners?

Okay, then you've got docs, right, you know.

Yeah, your docs, your physician networks. Then you've got like your community network. So you know, if you can work with a local like high school or if there's a soccer association or you know, all these kind of different community networks that you could start to tap into.

Yeah.

Okay. And do, do presentations, things like that.

Yeah. Doing content collabs with different local businesses. Right. You know?

Yeah, workshops, all kinds of things like that.

So that's where you allocate in that order then like website SEO, Google Ads and community marketing. Yeah. Okay. And for community margin you need like the collateral which is like all the print stuff, the referral pads. And then would you spend the money to do the postcards like the, the direct mail or you would wait for later because I Would not wait for that.

I would wait for that just because, you know, it depends on your business. So like for, for chiropractic, it's a little bit better understood in the public, right? Like, oh, you can have a postcard, direct mail that would go out for, you know, suffering with back or neck pain. Right. Physiotherapy or physical therapy. It's a little more unknown in terms.

Of what you would go for.

Right. So you should change it just in.

The stretch labs, you know.

Yeah. So there you go. So direct mail marketing to a cold audience is, is very, is a lot more challenging for physio or physical therapy. However, for your customer base, it's super powerful, helpful, right. If you're doing it the right way. So yeah, but I would say first from a brand new startup, you know, start with the online stuff first. The cores, like your, you know, your website, Google SEO, your Google Ads. Those are really critical.

Okay, all right, so let me share a story since I love stories. Right. Neil is so I just met so this, this clinical in our community. He just started a clinic from scratch in Vancouver on the busiest intersection of Vancouver that has like a dozens of clinics, right. And like within three months, he started seeing eight patients a week. Right. And I asked him like, what did you do? Right. Guess what, guess, guess what his order is. What website? Okay, the community marketing. But for the community marketing, he was doing treatment swaps with other like local influencers.

Right?

You know. Okay, so with like the personal trainer with the massage therapist, with a naturopath. Right. You know, and also with like that like really cool like barber nearby, like, you know, like people that have relations with other people in the community, right? Yeah, they were just sending people over, you know, like, just like, you know, over time and he would just like take care of them, know. Right. And the third thing that he did that really took off was he just got super active and engaged in these local Facebook groups in the community. Right, the community group, you know, and his community, you know, like, you know, like every area has like a community group, you know, or they got into like that, you know, there's a general community group and then there's like a pickleball for that community. There is like a running one. Like he just went in there not to like sell but just add value and just like get super engaged and then like, and then like drive like traffic back into, oh, you could check out my blog on this, blah, blah, blah. And so that, that was, that was what he did, you know, So I thought I could Share that.

Yeah, I mean, it comes back into that community. I think when it comes to community marketing, that Facebook, you know, groups is definitely a powerful tool for that. For sure.

Yeah. Okay, cool. So let's just say your clinic is like breaking even now. Okay. You're over half a million. Okay. So, and, and now you're like, oh my gosh, I'm starting to make money now. Right. What percent should I be spending now, Neil?

Yeah, so percentage wise, there could be anywhere from 5 to 8%.

Okay.

Kind of like that keeps you in a growth mode. Right. You know, if you're on the lower end there. Again, it depends on the type of clinic and the clinicians that you have. If you're able to build a super strong word of mouth and if you're in that type of area that this, you know, everybody knows everybody else, you can grow quite successfully there with, without that budget. If you're a much more competitive area. Yeah. You have to put a bit more into your marketing to not only sustain you, but then be able to grow further.

So 5 to 8%. Wow. And so what else would you get them to do next then? Like, so I'm going to assume that those four things that we're doing, they're still doing it, you know.

Right.

So what, what else would you get them to allocate? You know?

Yeah. So obviously you've got your online stuff that you're doing. So websites, SEO, Google Ads, maybe social media advertising at that point. The key there is that once you're there, you should have net by now, start to build out quite a bit of a customer list. So you want to make sure that you're trying to leverage your customer list as much as possible. So that's where email marketing really comes into play.

So this is your email marketing newsletters that you talk about, right?

Yeah, yeah. So it's, you know, a practice newsletter is really a powerful thing to keep telling the stories from within the clinic. So that can be, you know, digital aspects. Maybe it's a good time to start looking at direct mail marketing to increase that word of mouth referrals with your customer base.

The direct to mail is more for not new leads, but for your existing client phase. Right.

Yeah. That's where we find the most success there is really working within your entire, you know, customer base, past customers, you.

Know, and what's, what's the best postcard that seems to work the best. Like if I was to send it to like an existing like, patient on my list, like, what type of like, what's My hook.

Yeah. You know what, seasonal stuff seems to work the best. Right. And, and for example, like here in the U.S. most of our private insurance companies, the, the year renews around anywhere from December to January. So like a new cycle. Right. And that means that. Yeah, yeah. So you're basically your benefits are going to start, let's say January 1st. New benefits. So what we do is we actually send out a seasonal postcard. Hey, if, you know, a lot of times they may have come in the beginning of the year or they've used part of their deductible, some other medical expense, but it's like, hey, you've got these unused visits. Yeah, use them up. Right. Come on in.

Right.

You could be no cost to you potentially. Right. So those kind of seasonal type postcards seem to do very well.

So that, That's a good Q4 one. Right? You know, like that's absolutely, yeah.

And then for, for the new year, people start to think about their health. So we, we like to launch what we call a new year new you postcards. So getting people to think about, hey, you want to hit your goals, you want to get out of pain, you want to be, you know, more fit, more healthy, come see us. Right. So that, that kind of message seems to resonate really well at the beginning of the year.

And is there an offer or just like come see us? Is that like.

Yeah, it depends on the clinic, what they want to offer. So some may offer like an introductory screening, some may say, hey, come in and you'll get a, you know, 30 minute massage. It just depends on the state that they're in, their laws and different.

I bet you the free massage would do very well. You know, it's just up to the owner doing it. Right. You know, coming for.

It's totally up to what, what works for that owner.

Why would you do that? Like it's cheaper than a Google Ad, you know, if you pay your massage therapist to do it, you know.

Yeah, it's great. Right?

Like, like 50 bucks cost per acquisition. Yeah. 20 minutes.

20 minutes stretch session. Right. Your stretch lives.

You're going to start using that one. I know you, I love it. I give you your million dollar idea.

Yeah, I love it then.

Okay, cool, cool. And so, so email marketing, direct mail would be next, you know. Right. And would it change once you start hitting a million or more or.

The only thing that would change there is it would depend on the size of the clinic. Right. If they start a million, multiple locations, those kind of things.

Yeah, yeah. Let's just say you're doing a million and you know, you're, you're doing a million and you have ambitions to do a couple more locations. Right?

Yeah, yeah. So one thing I see there is that because one of the things with multiple location clinics is they come to us and usually they have one or two clinics that are doing awesome and then usually one or two clinics that are underperforming a lot. Right. And what's, what's happened is that they open those clinic locations and they treat it just like their existing business, which is totally running fine. Right. And well known in the area. But depending on how far away that other clinic is, it could be like starting a brand new clinic. Right. It's really not known. It takes some effort. Right. So it's really making sure that with, if you're expanding and adding another location or two that you're really looking at. Okay, what is my marketing plan and budget for that specific location? Because I have to get that up and running. So I mean, I'm gonna have to put more budget into that particular location. Get up and running, Google Ads, you know, those kind of things.

Okay. Yeah, so this is more about. Yeah, it's adding more to do, then you're back to cycle one again, you know, like the story.

Yeah, you are, you are. But the thing is you do have that established brand, so it does make it easier and you have a lot of processes in place. But, but where I see clinics go wrong is that they, they just continue to operate as normal and just think they can open that location and everything's going to be, you know, taken off like a rocket. But you have to treat it like it's almost a brand new startup business.

Yeah, I agree. That's super, super cool. You know, so, you know, like Neil, you're a physical therapist, right. A very passionate one. And I love how you pivoted into build this like massive marketing agency, you know. Right. That's adding crazy, crazy, you know, value, you know, for, for the profession. So you kind of have a crystal ball of like what's going on. So I'm super curious, where's the future for physical therapists given like everything that's going on right now, like in the world, you know, like it's. We live in a very uncertain world. Things are kind of crazy, but. And there's so much going on like, you know, with like the cutting reimbursements, like you know, you got, you know, like, you know, you got. Allied Healthcare is all competing with each other. You know, you got stretch labs, you know, pretending to be physical therapists everywhere, you know, you know, and then you got Dr. Ho selling tens machines, you know, and then you got, you know, like hyper ice and like, you know, I mean like and virtual kiosk where you don't even talk to people anymore. Like what is the future, Neil, of our profession?

I think the future is actually pretty bright. Right. And I think it's easy to get on the doom and gloom train. You hear some of the things out there. But if you look at the whole big picture, what I love to see is that I think in as a whole the general public has become more aware of health and investing in their health and there's lots of opportunity in that and that's why there's more competitors than ever before for all these different stretch labs and different, you know, types of businesses opening up to fill the need there. So there's a ton of opportunity. And I see businesses that are being very successful if they're thinking in a way of how can I, you know, offer more than just, you know, standard cut and dry, just physical therapy for example. Right. They're thinking outside the box. They're bringing all these ancillary services in. They're becoming multidiscipline. Those guys are rocking. Right. And so there is a lot of opportunity out there for practice owners that start to think in a way of how can I service more of these type of direct to consumer markets out there.

I love that Neil. You know, and, and yeah, everything you just said, like totally, you know, nailed it.

I mean we know the medical model is failing, right. You know, the traditional like you know, go see your doctor and he's going to tell you everything to do. Like that's changed over the years. Right. And so people are looking to be, they're more of their own advocate for their health. Yeah.

I think this is what Covid like did for society, right. Is I know it was a lot of pain for clinics around that time, but it actually like brought forward like everyone's like attention to like mental health and physical wealth and well being. I don't think this was an ever priority ever before, but for the first time ever, yeah, Covid made this happen. You know, it pushed tech forward 10 years, but I think also push health and wellness forward 10 years.

Yeah, I, I totally agree with that.

Which is amazing. And then it's, it's, it's interesting right now, Neil. Like, like when I look at our community, we work over you know, a thousand clinics in our community. There are like two camps, there are the haves and the have nots. Right. And like the haves are the people, the have nots are the people that are fluctuating with the economy, you know. Right. Bad news. The Clint is bad, you know. Right.

Yeah.

The BDP goes up, the clinic does well. And then there's other clinics who are kind of embarrassed to brag how well they're doing because it's like, you know, because they're growing like double digits, you know. Right. And they're getting like record cash, record revenue, record everything. And, and, and, and it stems from them not only running a good business, but they also being like, like good at marketing, good at sales. Actually, this is why they're good, you know, is because they, they are, they are, they're great with their marketing, generating leads. They're great with like, you know, making sure that when these leads come in, they convert them into an appointment. You know, they're amazing with the patient experience that this person stays. And they're also like, like outstanding with like staff experience. So they could keep people, you know, and that's kind of the recipe. But if you don't have one of those, you're kind of like you're going to be part of the have nots, you know. Yeah.

But also I think, and you teach this a lot and that you see those people that, that are doing very well, they've become more of the business owner.

Right.

They become more of the entrepreneur where they're, they're not working, you know, 50 hours of patient care and trying to run the business. So they've kind of pulled back from patient care. They're still probably doing patient care, but they're more becoming a business owner and focusing on parts of the business to make the business go.

Yeah, I love it. So you, you brought something very like, interesting that you talked about. Like the clinics that you see are doing well are adding more like, you know, new revenue streams. Right. In other cases, like multi discipline. Right. You know, so let me ask you a question because, like, you know, most of the clinics I work with, you know, and I see this mostly in Canada and also in Australia, is that like they're big on multi discipline player, you know, so like the ideal clinic is like a three, $4 million. Let's just say it's a $3 million clinic. A million of that is like physio, a million is Cairo and a million is. That is massage therapy. And those are three SEO keywords that people are like using intensely. And I want. So it's not even a competition because someone's Searching massage. I want massage. Someone searching physical therapy. I want physical therapy. Someone's searching Chiro want Kyra. You're not going to like, it's not even competition, you know.

Yeah.

Why is it that like, you know, most of the, most of the clinics, like in the U. S. When it comes to multi discipline, it's so kind of behind, you know. Right, yeah. Like, I just feel like I saw that old school, like, yeah, real versus physical therapy thing and not doing what's best, like for the patient because the patient is like, you know, like, I want to hear your thoughts about this.

It's changing and that's a great thing. I think there's more openness. When I was graduating from school back in like 98, there was this kind of animosity, right, between Cairos and physical therapists. Like, oh, Cairos are terrible. Right. And Cairos will go, oh, physical therapy. Right. You know, so there was this kind of like old school, you know, competitiveness and no one valued each other. I think it also comes out of that medical model that we've changed from. Right. And so in the past, it used to be that especially here in the states is that you had to have a prescription to go to physical therapy from your doctor. Right. So in physical therapy you had to be within that, that referral. Right. You couldn't get a person in from the streets. You had to send them back to the doctor first. That's changed over the years. Right. But there's still kind of that lingering, you know, mentality there. And from a chiropractic perspective, like they could all, for a long time, many, many decades, they've been able to go, you know, direct to the consumer. And so they've been used to more direct to consumer marketing. So that kind of kept those separate. But again, I think.

How many years ago was that change, you think?

I would say that probably the last 10 years. That has started.

But that's the same as like up north. No different. But, but, but that's what I'm saying. Like it's. Why is it like to me, when I think about, like I was like, like, like when I think about the states, it should be way more progressive, you know. Yeah.

But you know, I will say there's, there's some lingering states that didn't get direct access until probably, you know, a couple of years ago. Okay, right. So that, that's still, they're still kind of coming out of that phase. It took a long time for them to, to be able to get that direct access part of it, but it seems a lot like I do see more and more clinics bringing in, you know, other ancillary services there. And I think it is what the, what the public really wants. They want to go to a one stop shop, they want to have all.

These options, what the consumer wants. You know, they're really like, you could, you know, you could just tell by Google like people are searching for chiropractic. Like the volumes for chiropractic is probably very similar to physical therapy. And then like you got massage which is like off the charts and you got natural path.

Like well I would say like massage is off the charts. Cairo is much higher than phys, than physio and physical therapy and then you know, and then you have physical physiotherapy. However, you know what we find is that a lot of people, they mostly search by their condition.

Right.

So they may not say, hey, I need to go see a chiropractor. I mean I need to go see a pt. It's like, what can I do about this back pain? That's their first query.

Wow, cool. Awesome. Last question. We're going to wrap up. So Neil, if actually. Yeah, so last question Neil. Is that like, you know, why should they come to clinic boss summit in Florida? Orlando, right. Come January.

Why not?

Because me spending a full day, right. Oh, we're going to be marketing, marketing for a full day from like 8 o' clock to 5 o'. Clock. We're going to build out your incomplete like 2024 plan. You know, you're going to come out.

With a big, you know, marketing machine. Clarity I think. Clarity, right. Because there's so, so many different things to think about in the, in the business. We're talking from a marketing standpoint here. But you know, there's challenges with the recruitment, right. Retention, all these different areas here in the business. And so we're going to be covering.

All that's day two and three. Day two and three is going to be about recruitment. It's going to be about like retention, you know, and then. But day one we're doing a full day of marketing. And so if you love this show and what we talked about, we're going go really deep and give you something, something very practical so you have actionable takeaways so that you could do yourself or you could do it with like an agency, you know. Right. So it's gonna be that practice. So everyone like check in the show notes or the link below and sign up for the summit. And yeah, it's gonna be January 25th to the 27th.

Yes.

Yeah. In Orlando, Florida, right?

Yeah, in Orlando. So nice and warm and sunny that time of year. And you're going to be able to connect with hundreds of other practice owners. So great networking and collaboration opportunities there at the event.

Yeah. And Neil and I are co hosting this together for the first time, you know, so super excited. Yeah, Neil, thanks for being on the show and. Yeah. And so what is the best way for people to find you, Neil? You know, the people don't know who you are. Yeah.

Great thing is just go to practicepromotions.net, check us out online. There's great useful tips on our website for marketing your practice. And if you want to chat with us, there's a way to look at our instant demo and start to connect with someone.

Okay, cool. We'll see everyone next week on the Clinic Boss Show. See you, everybody.

Bye, everybody.

Thank you. Rich. If you found this helpful and want some free resources to help you be an even better clinic owner, head over to clinicbosstools.com we've got tons of free stuff on getting new patients, bone scripts, selling your clinic, managing clinical teams, and much more. Head over over to clinicbosstools. Com.