How Reducing Treatment Times Helped Him Grow 100% in a Year with Zach Smith

What was your revenue growth in 2023 compared to like 2022?

Doubled.

Doubled.

Yeah. Wow. We changed our visit model so we went from 60 minute one on one visits down to 45 minute one on one visits. A lot of the payers up here will only pay us for 40 minutes, 45 minutes. And so we are essentially giving away 2015 to 20 minutes of essentially free care there.

How to get smarter in business and in life. This is the question and I'm on a journey get you that answer. I'm going to interview the world's top entrepreneurs and deconstruct their winning secrets. Going to talk about everything from marketing money and living a bucket list life. I'm Rick Lau, healthcare entrepreneur. I grew and exited my 127 locations in my 30s. Welcome to the Clinic Boss show. Welcome to the Clinic Boss show, everyone. This is Zach, a dpt, co founder of four clinics. And it's. Is it high to f Physical?

Yeah, High def. Like, like high definition down.

That's what. High def. There you go. There you go. Physical therapy in Washington. And you're super active on social and you're a passionate, super passionate business owner. So, so did I get this right, Zach?

Yeah, perfect. You got it. Yeah. And the funny thing about high def was there's a backstory behind the name. But eventually the reason why we shorted down, shortened it down from like doing high definition is imagine putting a sign up on your building that says high definition physical therapy. Imagine how many. We can hardly fit our name on a, on a, on a, on a building right now anyway. So definitely had to shorten it down and, and make it a little more reasonable.

Oh yeah, yeah. Like if you think about those old school, old school clinic names, it's like, you know, it's like the city with orthopedic and sports physical therapy clinic. And like, you know, just imagine like your logo is just made out up of like a paragraph, you know.

Yeah, well, it's funny because like I think like I drive by businesses all the time and I think about the era in which the business was created. And a lot of times people's names emphasize the era that they're created. So for example, I drove by with my wife the other day, I drove by and you always drive by storage places that are named like this and if it's always like AA storage or AA something and it's because they were trying to optimize for the yellow pages, so they wanted their name to come up first. When someone opened the yellow pages, they wanted to be able to see that, you know, right away. And I think like, what you're talking about is these like, whatever it is, Seattle sports, physical therapy, they're trying to optimize for SEO. And SEO was, you know, big during the time of, of these clinics coming up. And so they thought, hey, if I name my clinic exactly what someone would search on Google, and then it's going to come up easier. And so like, you know, you know that it's, it's kind of like generational based, I think.

Yeah, that's a good point. You know, and so, hey, so obviously I butchered your name. You know, like, does that happen often with the patients or they, or, or do they see as high def or they go high def?

Yeah, we get it all different.

Is it 50? 50?

We get, we get all sorts of different stuff. And you know, you know, the one benefit was like, when we, when we went to naming, we were like, you know, you think about Google, you think about Yahoo, you think about like some of these big companies. Amazon, they don't have inherently a cool name. They just made the name cool and it's unique. So it's like, you know, if you start to search for Amazon, there's not a lot of other companies that come up or Google. Right. They kind of made their own words. So we didn't want to go with like the standard like milestone, physical therapy or whatever. All of these other, other clinic names are typical, you know, like, you know, like there's like peak and like, there's just certain words that everyone uses. And if you search. Yeah, you'll. Yeah, exactly. You'll search around the entire country. You'll see a bunch of clinics like that. So, you know, our goal is just to kind of create something unique because we also want to have a unique product in, in physical therapy as well. And so, yeah, I think people hyphenate it. People search it correct, incorrect.

But 50, like, based on like, they call it high def and then there'll be high def. You know, I think I was going the direction of high def, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and obviously like what you're sounding is at least it's like in the ballpark. I've heard all sorts of stuff.

Like, what was the worst, what was the worst, what was the worst that you've heard that someone butchered your brand?

He deaf, Which I'm like, man, that's like some basic pronunciation right there. Try to get that right.

English is the third language, bro.

Sadly for this person. No, but I, I would, I would take that as an excuse.

Well, that is my excuse on butcher Did. Okay, Zach. So, Zach, how did we first meet? Do you remember?

Well, I think. I think I've been. I mean, I've been following you and kind of messaging you on Instagram for a while, but then we talked for a long time at pps where I think I meet a lot of people outside that little bar in.

Was it Colorado?

Yeah, Denver, Colorado. Right. Outside that little bar inside of. Yeah, the. The Gaylord Hotel.

Yeah. Yeah, that's right. And I think that was your first time come to a PPS, like, show.

Right.

You know, and so it was PPS. It wasn't WebPT, right?

No, it's PPS. I've never been to the WebPT conference, but.

Okay. And did you attend my talk there or. Or you didn't? I did. Okay, cool, cool. Did you implement the stuff we talked about?

I mean, I. I think I. I implement a little bit of everything here and there. Like, that's always the challenge, right? You go to these conferences and it's like you learn so much good stuff and. And then it's hard to implement. Like, I was just talking to one of my friends, Josh Funk, who you've also had on the podcast. We were talking about Coaching Con as a conference. And it's like, he's like, well, I've still got stuff that I've got to try to implement from last year's Coaching Con. So it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. And I think that's a good way to think about it. You know, like, a lot of people, they read a ton of books, they go to a ton of conferences, they listen to a bunch of podcasts, but then they don't implement anything of any value. And I think, like, that year after peop, the first PBS we went to was. Was I. We probably made some of the largest changes in our company of all time, and it's been a huge benefit to us ever since. And before I went to that conference, I was really thinking, like, I was telling my business partners, no, I don't want to take time away from the business. I don't think it's worth it to go out to this conference. I don't think I'm going to be.

Able to do anything.

I completely shifted my mindset after I went to the conference and experienced it and then came back because I realized, like, if you meet. You meet so many great people that are doing great things that give you good information. If you just implement that kind of stuff, you can leapfrog.

Your way 100%. And right now, how big is your team? So you got the four clinics in Seattle, right? Like, how big is your team? Like all staff, including, like clinical staff?

Yeah. For High Def, we have, we have a total of. We just brought on our 10th pt. We've got, we're going to hire another two here pretty soon. And we've got 17 total employees for High Def. And then I also am a partner in a clinic down in Southern New Mexico, which isn't part of the High Def brand, but we've got another set of employees down there too.

Interesting. So it's not part of the High Def brand, but is it, Is it like. Yeah, you know what, let's park that and talk about that later, because that's quite interesting.

Yeah.

And so, and then, and then what was your revenue growth in 2023 compared, like 2022?

Doubled.

Doubled?

Yeah. Wow.

Seriously? So you grew by 100%?

Yeah.

All right.

Actually slight. Slightly over 100%. It was a, it was an amazing growth year for us. We, we actually did our, our 23, our 2023 breakdown, like maybe six weeks ago, where we had our, our partners meeting and kind of looked at like the year past. And it's really wild to look at where we were starting in, in 2023 and kind of where we're at. And like, we've kind of been on this rapid growth cycle ever since we started, just the way we've, the way we've been able to do it. Luckily, like, when we started, we started full time in August 2019, and so we were only like six months away from like the pandemic kicking off and luckily.

Interesting. So the business you and your partner started, the, I guess the, the first clinic in 2020, 2019 was. Is that right? That what I heard?

2019, right before COVID right? Yeah.

Oh, geez.

Yeah. So welcome to business, dude. Yeah, exactly. But we bootstrap, man. We're in the best place to do this because we started out of the back of a gym and I would, I, I would bring my, my folding table, all my equipment around in the back of my.05 Ford Ranger, go to people's houses, I'd meet people at parks. I treat people out of this gym that I had a partnership with. And we were kind of in the peak of that, which was tough because all the gyms closed down here in Seattle. And so, you know, because we're a medical facility, we kind of were allowed to be open, but because the gyms were closed, it was kind of like a weird gray area. But I mean, we just kept on operating with, with as much safety as we possibly could exercise. And I mean, I think we were positioned in a good place because we were so lean and we were just starting. We like got thrown into the fire and like figured out how to operate during that kind of, that period of time, which was difficult. And so I think like now feels kind of easy.

You know, it's like a walk in the park. Right. So, so, so, so let's go back to 20, 23. So you, you said you guys grew 100. Let's just say you double. So you grew 100. You know, what would you say are the top couple things that you did that contribute to this, why you grew so much? Because like the type of growth at top was like it's kind of not normal. Right. You know, most clinics typically grow maybe like 5, 10%, like depending what their economy, like their local community is doing. Like they're at GDP. Like they'll grow 5 or 10% depending on what the local business is doing. But like, you know, and some of the better girls are like doing 20%. But you know, like, what did you do to grow like 100, you know.

Right.

Like.

Yeah. Well, I'll tell you this, we were just well positioned to be able to grow like that because we had the, we had the space, we had the clinics, we just didn't have the providers. So all we had to do so recruitment. Yeah, we had to hire, we had to hire pts, we had to build, we had to build the top end funnel of leads for physical therapy as well. So a lot of things culminated to lead to this. And so I think the number one thing that, that was helpful with the start was we changed our visit model. So we went from 60 minute one on one visits down to 45 minute one on one visits. And we cut that. Yeah, we, we cut the 15 and you know, we were 60 from the beginning. Uh, we got that basically feedback from everyone that was at PPS and we, we're just kind of talking and it was just logical. A lot of the payers up here will only pay us for 40 minutes, 45 minutes. And so we were essentially giving away 20, 15 to 20 minutes of essentially free care that wasn't being paid for by insurance.

The patient doesn't want to be there for longer than that. And it's not like you're getting a massage or anything, let's be honest.

I know. And that was, that was the kind of the pushback from some of the PTs was like, Hey, I don't want to, you know, we're, we're losing time. And, and by the way, we still allow the patients to stay in the clinic and do their exercise and like, hey, program them another 15 minutes, stay and do capacity work. But like 40 minutes, 45 minutes to one on one. It's plenty of time to get done what you need. And we've found that our MPS scores have not only not gone down, but they've gone up over time. Our outcomes are, are trending in the right direction as well. And so there, there wasn't any loss in like the, in like the, like the quality of the care there.

And you know what's interesting to say that, Zach, because I think there's this misconception that more time is actually better care. And what you're telling me is that like, based on like actual outcome measures of patient satisfaction scores, that is not the case. Right?

Yeah, no, exactly. And, and it's funny because like when patients figured this out, they're like, hey, this is actually better for me because I have an hour long lunch break and this means I can actually come during my lunch or I could take my lunch at 1 and I can, I have three, five minutes to drive over there, do my 45 minutes, then five minutes to drive back. I don't have to miss any work. And so like, there's, there's some of that. And like, I mean, think about F45. They're incredibly successful workout franchise. They're not F60, they're F45. People don't necessarily want to be some. Like, more is not always better for, for some people, I think if, and, and here's the thing is people pay for the result. They don't pay for the, they don't pay for the service itself. And, and so if you could get them the same result in 45 minutes versus 60 or 6 visits versus, then they're going to be much happier overall because they're going to spend less time, less energy and less money. And that's just the simple value equation.

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. And, and, and you brought something up that was interesting is that like, you know, you're just modeling the F45, for example.

Right.

You know.

Yep. Yeah. I mean, I've even seen like new, new workout facilities. I saw, I walked by a facility that just opened up in downtown Seattle. It's called 30 Minute Hit, and they're trying to sell an even shorter workout. They're like, hey, get the same result as F45. But in 30 minutes. And people are like, oh, if I could get the same result. Now the, the kicker is you gotta do F5.

F5, you know, exactly.

Hey, eight minute abs, right? Would you rather do six minute abs if you could get the same.

If the outcome's the same, like, you know, and like, I think we live in this world right now where people are short on attention and time, you know, and so as long as you could get the results in the shortest amount of time, that adds value and gets them to like their outcome. Like, you know, who's gonna say no to that, right?

You know, that's the kicker. That's the kicker. It's like people don't actually want to get somewhere slower. They want to get to the same place or higher faster. And so you just got to be a lot more dialed. And what, what I found was our PTS just became a lot more dialed in that 45 minutes. There was a lot less downtime. There was a lot less, like chatting for five minutes between exercises for rest breaks. There's just a lot less of that, like filler exercise. Like, I gotta get to 60, so I'm gonna add this extra two exercises.

You know, like, okay, from 60 to 45. So that opened up like capacity. So what was the second thing? What, what's another, what's another thing you think you did?

Yeah, because right there, right there alone, you go from 40 visits a week on a 40 hour schedule to 53. So you, you add quite, quite a large percentage. Right? 25 capacity. Another piece was for, for the year of 2022, I paid, I paid $10,000 to a guy to do SEO and advertising work for us. Yeah. And during that year, and I know SEO, like I run SEO for our company now. Search Engine optimization. For those of you guys who don't know, I run that now for our company. And over that year period, I had maybe a 5% increase in impressions and clicks. And it was like I paid a ton for no girl. So I got, I got upset about that and I took it over at the end of 22. Yeah. And I absolutely went pedal to the metal when if I wasn't, if I was just bored at home or I didn't have anything to do, I was optimizing web pages. I was using AI to optimize these web pages. I was writing blogs, I was trying to get backlinks, I was emailing people. I was just, I went like a madman.

And now when Alex Hermosi style, dude, right?

You know, dude, I went, I just went it's full action. And now, like, so, for example, back in the beginning of 2022. Yeah, we're getting about 150 impressions on our website a day, and about 10 or 11.

What is that per month?

3000, maybe 3000.

So you're getting. So back then in 2020, you're getting about 3000 impressions.

2022. Yeah.

3000 unique visitors or impressions?

Impressions.

Okay, what about unique visitors?

We're probably doing like, you know, 10 a day.

Okay, so that's, so what is that in a month? Like 500, 600 unique visitors?

No, it's not even that because 30 days in a month and, and, you know, some, and Saturdays and Sundays are low, so we're probably doing, I don't know, 2, 260, 270.

Oh, I, I, I think you would do more than that. But anyways. But yeah, so, yeah, and, and then what do you think you're doing now?

Now? Well, now, I mean, I can, I just looked today and like, today we had. Or Yesterday we had 55,500 impressions on our website.

Yeah.

And we had, and we had 55 clicks to the website from those impressions. We're doing more unique visitors. I think we're talking about, like, clicks from SEO, like, like actual, like unique visitors from that. And so, so for example, what do.

You think your unique visitors a month is right now? If, you know, in 2023, like a, like, because you're looking at it per day, right? So, like, you were doing like 10, 10 a day before, right? Like, what do you think you're doing now?

Right, cup, like multiple hundreds, couple like mid 100, 150, 200 in that range. Yeah. And so, so for example, like, if, if I look at like the last three months. Yeah, we've had 3, 300,000 impressions over the last year at our, on our physical. And this is a small physical therapy clinic. Right. We have 10 providers. We've had 1.15 million impressions on our website.

I want to hear unique visitors. Dude, your impressions is throwing me off right now.

You know, 10,000 clicks. I don't know. I don't know what the unique visitors was. I'd have to look up that stuff.

If you go Google Analytics, I would say most clinics probably get like, roughly about like a thousand unique visitors a month. Right. So I'm just, I want to give the rate. I'm curious to see what you're, I'm curious to see what your numbers went.

Yeah, here's, so here's, here's your, here, here's Our, Our, our. From our web host. The, the last 30 days, we've had unique visitors. 3,226.

There you go. 3, 000 unique visitors. There you go. That's. That's a solid number, right?

Yep.

And then, and what do you think that was like in 2022?

I'd say it's 10x less 300.

Okay, so 300. Right. So you went from 300 unique visitors a month to 3,000.

Right.

You know, right.

Yep, yep.

And, and, and, and I just. And did you do it yourself or you hired someone to do it?

Well, that's what I said. I paid 10,000 bucks to a guy who really didn't do a whole lot for us. And it frustrated me.

He.

We. We spent, get this, we spent $3,000 on a guy to run Google Ads for us. We paid him 700. He run twenty three hundred dollars worth of Google Ads.

Yeah.

When we, when we went back to the phone tracking and we looked at the calls that came in, we had one conversion.

Yeah. Crazy.

For 3,000 bucks.

Yeah.

And so I'm like that, I mean, the customer acquisition cost on that alone is like, on, like unreal. Like, I mean, you would go out of business in a, you know, in a month doing that kind of if you're trying to actually drive numbers. And so when I, when I looked at that, I was like, you know, I've got to learn this myself, and I've actually got to get into the trenches and I got to know enough to be dangerous. And now, now I'm kind of in the process of trying to re. Outsource certain things back out off of my plate, but I had to like, dive back under the hood and figure out like, what is going on here and why. Why are we, like, why are we paying all this money and not getting.

What were the big changes you made on your website? Like, you said to go from 300 to 3,000. Like, if you were to sum it.

Up right, Optimization of, of keywords, like SEO optimization. We mainly used AI tools to like, grade pages and optimize web web clicks. So basically we went from ranking like in our local. Because, like, obviously with physical therapy, it only matters if you rank locally. Right. Like, three to five mile radius from each of our clinics is the only distance. So, so we have map tracking features where we can see where someone is and if they click our website or like where we would show if they Google us. And we went from like outside the top 20 to like the top three in like 10 different keywords for Physical therapy around each of our clinics got that, I think was being super active on getting backlinks. So we increased our ability to get, you know, like, like a stronger web presence. And then we.

What kind of backlinks are we getting? Like, was it backlinks from like, just.

Local community, like relationships, like charity, like charities that we were already running boot camps, like, because we do a lot of charity boot camp work. We're like, all right, will you just link us up on your website? Doing podcast interviews, doing blogs, co writing blogs, things like that. Getting our. The gyms that we're inside of, like, we're inside of these gyms. They weren't. We weren't on their website. All right, can you put us in your website? And so, like, all of that, I'm.

Gonna say that that's the key, Zach. Right? Because like, yes, you could optimize it, but like, if you can't drive external traffic to it by linking to other authority sites or like people who have traffic to your site, like, it's dead. Even if you were to like, do all the optimization on AI like you talked about.

Right.

Would you agree?

Yeah, I mean, I'm not an expert. I just literally, like, people ask me what I did. I'm like, I literally did anything and everything you could possibly imagine that you could do. But I'd imagine, like, you've got to have a quality page to drive that traffic, otherwise Google's not gonna like it. But I think 100%, from what I've studied and read and what I've seen, backlinks and like, your page authority is really what's going to drive that. And the other thing is like, we. We've spent a long time building Google reviews and like doing that kind of stuff to improve our local search traffic.

Yeah, 100%. And that said, you know, yes, like, the. These agency could do X so much to get your site, like, set up structurally for SEO, if you choose the right one. But at the end of it, it's going to be like what you're doing with like, content marketing, you know, and if all this community, like, stuff that you do and you getting like backlinks from that, you know, is like critical to getting that external traffic, you know, back to your site. And also you like, getting, you know, hundreds or thousands of Google reviews. Right? So cool.

Yeah. Yeah.

All right. So getting. And then it sounds like the third thing you did was just recruiting more. Is that what. Is what I heard, Zach? Like?

Yeah, and recruiting is kind of an interesting thing for us because like, honestly, we've had. We've had mixed results with actual recruiting, like, what you would call, like, cold outreach, outbound, like, recruiting. And so what I. What I call it more is, like, attracting. And so we started getting much better on our. On our social media presence. And what we started to find was we started to attract more talent through being able to just show people, like, what our clinics were about, because, like, there's so many clinics out there. You go to their website, you go to their social media. You don't even know what the inside of the clinic looks like. You don't know what the. What the culture is. You don't know, like, are they learning stuff or, like, what kind of PT are they doing? What equipment do they have? Like, what. Like, what are their. What are their. What's their culture like?

Right?

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, all that kind of stuff. And. And then we just decided, hey, let's just document all this stuff. Let's put. Let's put videos in, like, of the insides of our clinics and interview PTs and have the podcast and, like, and then host courses. We started hosting a lot of continuing education courses out of our locations, which brought in a lot of physical therapists. And these physical therapists had an. The ability to actually come in and see our clinic, and they would say, oh, wow, this is. I didn't even know this existed. And then we've gotten pts that applied to our jobs that were available just on the fact that they said, hey, I saw you hosted an R2P course. I'm coming to that course. I saw you guys also have a job opening. Would you. Are you guys interested in hiring me? Oh, so you're.

You're working with Josh on the rtp, like, Academy and all that stuff?

Well, we've hosted his course at our clinic. Yeah, we hosted. We. We hosted a ton. We're hosting six courses in six months out of our.

Okay, so this. Is this not you creating courses about you hosting courses, too? Like, so let the Joshes of the world drive, like, you know, the clinicians to pay for their courses, but then you actually host them at your. At your clinic. Right, you know?

Right, exactly. And then think about this genius. And the. The type of clinician who wants to go to these courses are the type of clinicians that I want to hire.

Yeah. Love it 100%.

So. So we're like, hey, what a better way to bring them in? And I'm not, like, actively, like, poaching and, like, giving a sales pitch at these things, but it is a good Opportunity because our entire team goes. And so all of these pts meet all of our team, they get to see our facility and then eventually some of them are like, man, this is always something I've wanted to be a part of this like in gym style model and so I'd love to come out here and do this.

Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. Cool. Cool. It sounds like you had some big wins last year. You know, good job there. Like it sounds like those three things, like I could see how you implemented like those three things we talked about is why you had some of that insane growth. Right. You know, do you have any concerns about the economy right now? Like just with you know like there's inflation and you know, like, you know, obviously it's a presidential like election right now too so. But also with, with like hey, are we in a recession? Are we not going to recession? And just like there's just so much like, you know, like macro stuff going on.

Yeah, I think it's, it's funny because like I think part of my like blissful ignorance is, is based on the fact that I have not been in the market long enough to like have like the like the old like you know, skeletons in the closet of things that have gotten me in the past.

Yeah.

So I don't have any of that. And you know, I really think about it like one, we're on the coast. The like we're not recession proof but the recessions kind of hit a little bit later than they do the, the middle of the country typically here in the US which like typically we see it coming. We've got really good companies up here, Fortune 500s that have good insurances and we're, we're an in network based provider. That helps to kind of buffer us a little bit. But you know, I think about controlling the controllable and so I can't control the outcome of the election. I can't control the, the economy going up and down. And no matter how much I think about it and look at it like I need to be aware and make sure I'm not like, like borrowing money at an insane rate or a rate that's going to be like on a sliding scale and it's going to go up a lot or something like that. Not that we borrow a ton of money but really I just try to focus on what would, what would I need to do that if everything, you know, like went to zero around me that I would be the one left standing. And so to me it's like people are always going to need physical Therapy. And if your service is actually helping people and people enjoy coming to you, like, the best will survive, and the best will always, always have survived. And so my goal every day is just to look at it and say, what. What do we really need to do to just be the absolute best in our area? And so that if, you know, if. If clinics are closing down around us, which they are right now, we have clinics, big chains that are closing locations actively while we're growing against it. And. And so, like, that's kind of what I focus on as far as, like, the. The bigger picture of things.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Interesting. Cool. Cool. And. And how long did it take. How. How long did it take you guys to hit your first. Half a million, you think?

Half a million?

Yeah. How many years in revenue?

We probably hit that in. I'd say so. Probably 20, 21 was when we got there.

Maybe two years.

Yeah. Okay. Probably around there. Yeah.

And. And I'm gonna. I'm gonna bring it back to that place when, you know, like, you know, for the first two. They are the things you did to hustle to get new patients, to get to the half a million where you start breaking even.

Yeah. Well, the good thing was we were profitable from the beginning just because we were bootstrapped, like, 100%.

We didn't.

We didn't have leases. We had, like, I had negotiated, like these sliding scale, like, gym leases where it was like paid per visit, we had in the. In the gym. And so if we went to zero, our leases went to zero. So I'm a. I'm very anti risk, which is like, you know, obviously contrarian to, like, being able to scale quickly, although I think we've been able to manage. But the biggest thing that I did was, like, I just. I just did everything. I worked. I worked a lot of hours, so I would. I would treat, you know, mobile visits. I'd do 10 visits a day. I drove 140 miles a day. I worked, you know, 16 hours. When I wasn't doing that, I was setting up tables at gyms. I was doing free screens. I was giving a ton away for free. I was doing. We were doing free.

What was working. What was working to get, like, new patients in the door, you know, when you started off, you know. Right.

Yeah, most. Mostly like these. These, like, popup free, like, screenings, showing up at gyms, giving out information, having them coming to the clinic, starting PT that way. A lot of it was. Was word of mouth, you know, Like, I think, like, the best way to grow in the beginning is if you have the best service and you really provide the best of care, you'll see the. The word of mouth come in. And there was a time when I was treating, like, whole families. I was treating mom, dad, I was treating two kids, grandma, and I'd be treating five people in one family and sometimes four people in one house. I'd go to a house for three hours and treat, you know, three different people in one house at the same time. And so it's like that was. That was kind of like the word of mouth was really how I was spreading, but it was by just focusing really on the. On the service of PT rather than, like, any, like, hacks and. And like, you know, metrics, stuff like that.

Yeah, well, I think a lot of people say word of mouth, you know, and. But, you know, I think, you know, obviously, obviously, that comes with that. That comes with, like, you know, being in the community long enough where you deliver good care. Right.

You know, so, yeah, you've got to get the patients for sure, the first ones, but you got to make sure that, like, you're not so focused on the new patients that you're not focused on your current people. And I see that happen a lot in clinics that I talk to. They're so focused on getting more patients in the door to fill their schedule that they're neglecting the patients that they currently have on their schedule or have had on their schedule in the past and following up with people. Yeah. And so, like, once I got six months under my belt, I was texting all the patients that I saw six months ago. Hey, just wanted to check in, see how you are. Did you want to jump in and, you know, reassess and see and make sure, you know, like, nothing's kind of, you know, you know, kind of like backslid or anything like that. Right. Like, I was just active and. And one of the other things I think what. What helped that and what continues to help our clinic with the word of mouth referrals is, like, just more open communication. Like, for a long time, every patient that I treated had my personal cell phone number, which is, like, probably not advised, but, you know, like most clinics, I'm not going to force my pts to do that. But that was like, if you're trying to go from zero to, you know, a half a million, like, that's really what I think it takes to be hardcore hustle, man.

Here's my phone number. Here's my cell. Text me anytime, right? You know?

Yeah, but I mean, like, how bad do you want to make it, you know, that's, that's how I thought about it. And like, I was fully committed. I was, I ate three meals a day out of my truck when I was, when I was starting this business. I just had a cooler in my front seat and I would eat breakfast, lunch and dinner in there.

Yeah. So outside of the word of mouth, it sounds like you did a lot of like, pop ups and you did a lot of like, like call it free treatments to like, local influencers in the community. That was kind of the, like, what, what caused. Would you say that would be the couple things that actually help you, help you get to that first half a million?

Yeah. And I'd say the other thing was like having, you know, partnering with trainers, partnering with doctors, going, having meetings with them. And like, it was an easy sell at the time because I could go to a doctor and say, hey, listen, I'm. I'm one on one, 60 minutes. I go to the person's house, I take insurance, like, and they would just be like, wow, that sounds like a slam dunk. I'm gonna send my patients to you. And so, like, I had a pretty easy sales pitch at that point in time. And, and it was easy to sell patients too, because I was like, hey, by the way, you don't have to leave your house. And it was during COVID so it was like no one was leaving their house anyway. And everyone had. And it was like, it was like the perfect timing for all this. And I was doing mobile actually before COVID kicked off, and mobile PT has kind of become a little bit bigger here, at least in the U.S. and you know, I was, I was kind of like early to that game. But, you know, people, it was perfect timing because people were way more available, right? They, like, they were, they were at home, they could adjust their hours of work, they could take an hour here and there off. Their bosses didn't know. They're kind of, you know, so it was just a, it was a, it was a culmination of a bunch of things that help me. Yeah.

Cool. And then if you reflect back now, is there anything you would do differently so you could jump start, you know, like, what do we do? Definitely get new patients, you know, to get to that first half a million. Knowing what you know now, right?

Oh, yeah. I always think about that. I'm like, I wish I would have known what I know now back then, and I would have saved myself a lot of time. I think what I do is I, I definitely optimize. I'd. I'D optimize the backlinks earlier and I'd try to go for more SEO earlier. But I'd also run Google Ads. Google Ads just work. It's scary to pay for, for traffic sometimes to, to people that don't have money. But I would, I would have like reinvested a good portion of the money that I was making back into, to growth that way.

Yeah, yeah. Well it's all, it's all based on ROI. You know, if you could spend 50 bucks, you know, on Google Ads and it gets you like, like a, you know, a patient arrived, sorry, booked and arrived like in your schedule. Like you just keep on spending that until it doesn't. And now if you can't get those type of numbers, that's a different story. You should get rid of them like within the first month, you know. So. Yeah, because you can't get that roi, right? So yeah. So what I'm hearing is like what you would do differently is that you would have like, you know, you'd have focused on, in addition you would do the Google Ads and you would start optimizing some of those community backlinks. Right. You know, so go out there, do the content marketing, you know, work with those like relationships, a local business and get those like call it like backlinks or website links from their hire within their website or, or LinkedIn or whatever social media back to your website.

Right? Yeah. And this is how little I knew about SEO and stuff was like we changed our URL partway through like we used to be high def Seattle dot com. Now we're hi fpt dot com and I just let all of that die essentially. Like all those link, you know, like I pointed it, you know, I don't know, I still don't understand enough. I think you probably understand it better than I do. But like I was just so non focused on, on how to get search clicks. I just thought it was too small. I thought I couldn't battle ati. I couldn't battle all these big companies that paid all this are harder to.

Rank to be honest. You know because the, these corporate ATIs like they got the 7, 800 locations. It's hard for them to individually to rank within your city. Like you like the small mom and pops. Like if you do this well you have a way bigger chance even if they're bigger budget because they don't have people like hustling the way you're hustling and they're so big that they, they can't, you know, they don't move quickly within like local search.

Right?

Yeah.

And that's, I didn't understand that at first and now I definitely understand that where I can get very hyper local. Whereas like an ATI is going to write much more like like content for the greater good of the company versus like hyperlocal for the area. And so that's how, that's how we started to realize that we could win is like being that like super high level hyp to the actual neighborhood we're in.

Yeah. So there's so much like marketing platforms and social media platforms. So what do you think? You know, what would you say that is essential for like, what would you say is essential for you to use, you know, in the very beginning, like Instagram, like Google review, like Google my business. Like if you only have so much time, like you know, what, what would you, what would you double down on?

You know, I, I mean I cross, I cross posted everything. So I just, I just put. Posted almost the same thing on everything. But I, I used Instagram, Facebook and then we would use Google my business a ton because Google has shown like, at least from what I've read that if you like update your. My business profile. So there was a time when I was updating every location every day on Google, my business profile. Because like the more active you are, the more reviews like Google. Obviously Google wants you to use their platforms. I'd say YouTube's a big one that we're getting into more. It's harder to produce content. I think that does well on YouTube except now with YouTube shorts a little bit easier. But obviously like YouTube is the second largest search engine out there and Google owns both the top two search engines. So Google likes when people use YouTube and often if you search things on Google, you'll find it. The first search term will be a YouTube video and so that might be someone's link into your website. And so you know, I'd say like if I was creating stuff, like right now what we do is we just create content, chop it up into shorts, Instagram reels, you know, Facebook stories, all that kind of stuff. And we're just constantly posting between all those platforms. I'd say those three are our big ones. We have an intern right now that does, does our TikTok and stuff for us. I haven't, you know, I haven't looked at the numbers, but I don't think that's generating a ton now. But I think you have to get out ahead of the curve on some of these things and a lot of business Owners I talk to, they don't want to do that.

Right.

They don't want to be on social media, they don't want to create all this stuff, they don't want to create a team around it. But I, I like to do the things that other people don't want to do. And I'm, I'm pretty fascinated by like the changing of the guard of like what you're seeing these new PT clinics doing versus the older clinics. And you could see this change, like I said, some of these larger chains around us that are local, but they're actively closing PT clinics and I think it's just because they didn't keep up with the times. They're not like, they're not like jiving with the new, the new age of physical therapists coming out so having a hard time hiring. They'll have a hard time getting younger customers in. Like it's just like they're, they're, they just like stopped progressing wherever they reach their peak and now they're, they're on the downslope.

Yeah, we see this in our community a lot, you know, but you know, like if you think about all the, if you think about all the Gen Z's, you know, like, you know they're using Instagram and Tick Tock to do their like research, you know, like they're not, they're not like, you know, they're not even going your website, they'll go to your website after but be like the first thing we do is like actually they're doing all their searches within the platform. So if, if you're not on social like and you want to hire these like younger recruits or even these younger like consumers, like you're never going to reach them, you know, because they're, that's kind of like their first platform that will go.

Yeah, and honestly like a lot of our traffic to our website is just the contact page. It's like a link straight from a social media to a contact page and then those sessions is one page, they just fill out their information. They never even looked at any of the other pages we wrote. Like we have hundreds of pages but they didn't look at any of them. And you're right, they're just going straight over from social media to, to, to our website.

Yeah, well I see all the Gen Z's that work for me. Like you know, I'm an old school Google guy so I like going on Google like searching like they're not even doing that stuff, you know, like they're like straight On Instagram, you know, straight a tick tock, you know, so like, and my wife's like that, like, like, you know, we've been, we've been traveling for the past like, year, you know, and, and like, you know, we're, we're in Scotland right now and, and we'll be like, hey, we're gonna go for dinner, you know, so I'm on Google looking for Google reviews. And like, she, she's like straight on Instagram. I'm like searching like where to eat. Like in Scotland.

Yeah, yeah. And it's, it's interesting because I think that's where people go wrong is they think like, how would I do this? And then I'm gonna optimize to how I would do it versus, like optimizing towards the people that you want to be in there with you. And that's a hard thing, I think.

Which is the people you're hiring now. Right. Let's be honest. All the new grads that you're hiring is actually, this is like how they communicate with like their peers, you know? Right. You know, and, and which also is like how they're going to select where they're going to work at, like your clinic, Zach, versus one of those Seattle orthopedic and sports physiotherapy. Ati.com like correct.

Exactly. And you know, we've actually gotten PTs from Instagram. Like we get PTs all the time. And I think, and our PTs have fun producing the Instagram content. I think, like, it's just a, I think it's just a necessary tool now. Especially like, like, like I said, go back to the word recruiting versus attracting. Like, recruiting is very hard. Like, you know, we've had recruiting. Like, I have friends that own recruiting companies. That's a hard, that's like a lot of cold outreach. It's a lot of time. It takes manpower and hours and you're convincing someone to work. It's a lot easier to hire someone when they reach out to you and they want to work for you and you're trying to find a way to hire them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I think, you know, and I think when I look at your Instagram page or your social media, like, I think you do a really good job with that because you're creating content not just for the, the consumer that wants to, like, you know, need their services, but you're, you're creating content that attracts like clinicians like that say, hey, you know what? I want to work here. You know, like, this is different versus like, all the other ones, they look like, I have, like, a good vibe, a good culture. They do mentorship, you know, and, like, the space is nice. Is. You know, they got high, low beds. You know, I don't know. You know, I mean, like, they actually could feel the vibe of, like, your. Your clinic without actually even talking to Zach. Right. You know, which is content marketing, right?

Yeah, it's like. It's like, you know, it's like a. An advertisement. It's. It's. It's a way of people seeing what they're gonna. Gonna get before they buy. Right. They get a tried a little bit before they buy. And same with our cut. Same with our customers. Right. They could see, like, we have a lot of people that select us off social media. They go, hey, I went to your Instagram page. I listened to your podcast. I saw your YouTube videos. I really want to come here and get PT. And they'll drive further for PT that way. And. And it's nice that way because you'll. And it also serves as a resource for patients. Like, I. I get so many people coming up to me now that are like, hey, I tried all the shoulder exercises that you did, and it really helped my shoulders. So now I want to come and see you in person for my knee. And I was like, like, wow, that's great. That's exactly what we meant to happen. And we're. We're starting to get that snowball effect now. And that's kind of what happened between 2022 and 2023 was, like, the snowball just began to grow where, like, our momentum started to reach critical velocity in a lot of different areas.

Yeah.

And it all started to just kind of come together for us, which was. Which was exciting for us.

Well, that's. Yeah. If you think about, like, you know, I've been doing content marketing for the best. Like, probably, like, yeah. For the past, like, 12, 15 years. Like, you know, when you. When you're cranking out content and you're publishing across all these different platforms, like, you know, like, it creates awareness so that, like, at one point along their journey, they're like, hey, like, I need. I have this problem. Like, I'm like, okay, great. Like, Zach is top of mind. You know, that's when I actually go and, like, you know, click on that button that says, like, book an appointment now. Or, like, whether I. I follow you or, like, I move down your, like, your kind of your value stack, your value ladder, be able to, like, hop kind of in your funnel. Right. So.

Yep.

Cool. So, and then. All right, so. And how many years. So it took you two years to hit your first half a million. How many years did it take you to hit your first million then?

I think we. I'd have to look back. I think we did in the same year.

Okay, so within the first two years, like. Well, so you had some crazy growth. So within year two, you hit both half a million and the million dollar mark, right?

Yeah, we've almost doubled every single year since we started. Except for the first year to the second year. We. We much more than doubled it.

Yeah. Okay, cool. So, you know, and, and you know, like, now, like, you have an organ organization that has, like, I think you said 18 people, right? You know, right. Is that 18? Yes, 18. How do you get people to do, you know, how do you get people to implement stuff? Like, you know, like, maybe like, once again, you're gonna, you'll go to a PPS event or you go some type of, like, workshop, or you listen to a Josh Funk, like, you know, video. You're like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna. I want to implement this. How do you get your team to, like, implement stuff at your, at your business?

I mean, you hit me at a good time. Because this is exactly what we're working on right now is trying to, like, me and Mitch, my, my co owner, we're. We're trying to replace ourselves and because, you know, like, right now we're doing a lot of stuff that we don't necessarily want to do. And so we started to figure out was we were doing a lot of stuff that other people in our company enjoyed doing more than we did. Like, a lot more. Like, we, we just, we just started having one of our physical therapists who was, like, on maternity leave. She was only. She was working in the clinic 20 hours. She wanted some stuff to do from home. She loves, like, administrative stuff. She's done, like, she's worked as a front desk person, she's worked as an office manager. She's now a doctor of physical therapy. She's done it all, and she enjoys having some of that administrative side. And so she's doing. Taking tasks off us that she likes doing that we don't like doing. So number one, which, we're trying to find people in our organization that have passions for certain things, and then we're turning them loose on that. And so our goal is to have every person in our organization have an outside project and an inside project. So they're doing one thing outside to the community, whether that's like our pts. Like, hey, I've got a mobility seminar that I've created that I'm going to put on in gyms, which we're doing right now. Or I've got like, we've got a PTATC who's working for a soccer team that's like an outside project and then an inside project. So it's like some sort of like, if you're not going to take over a task, like, hey, I really love like organizational management of like, you know, ordering of equipment. So I'm going to be the equipment person and I'm going to like take all take on that task. Or it's like education. Hey, I really have a large passion around pelvic floor. I'm going to create an internal education course around pelvic floor treatment so that all of our pts kind of a general idea of, of that type of thing. And so we try to have people that when they have downtime, right, there's always going to be some cancellations, some openings on the schedule. We want people to feel like there's other projects to do. And it's kind of like that Google mindset of like 80, 20 where you know, ideally our PTS are treating more than 80% of their time in clinic, but there is downtime. And it also gives variety. You know, I think that like a lot of what we've seen with giving people projects is it's not just overloading pts, but it's giving them something else to think about and focus on, which has helped with burnout of the monotony of just completely being a 100% treatment provider all the time. Because there's some like, exercise, creativity. It's downtime. It's not face to face. You can, you know, just kind of work, you know, in an office by yourself. And so that's really what we're trying to do is like assign more things out to people. And I think like leading through values versus like punishment, right? Like telling someone, hey, you got to do this or you're going to be punished. Like, you know, saying like, you know, like letting them in on the bigger picture of like, this is how this is going to make our organization way more fun, way better. And like everybody feels like they're on the same team trying to grow this thing, which I think is also, you know, like the team around us has really contributed to that, that hockey stick style growth that we've had. It's just because we've got people that are passionate about pt. We've also got people that are just passionate about high def and trying to make this the best possible place to work because they've enjoyed working here.

Yeah. Wow. And what type of communication, like rhythm do you have with like, you know, maybe your leadership team, your partners and also with like your, I guess all the staff, you know, like what type of frequency and rhythms are you having?

Yeah, so we try to do so with our. Right now we're in the midst of, of starting a 12 week director training program that goes. It's about an hour and a half every week on Mondays. So we do that where all the directors meet, all of the PTs meet together for education stuff bi weekly.

Okay.

So we have like a, like all pts get on a group, group session. We do.

Is that a zoom session or like they just go to one of the locations or.

Yeah, no, it's zoom. And we do, we do case reviews and case studies, like, kind of like each PT presents a case and then we also do journal club and so that kind of alternates. So we do that bi weekly. And then every month every clinic gets together. We have a, we have a clinic hosted lunch and then we do one on ones once a month with every employee as well. Okay. And then we have a variety of different frequencies and cadences of like our new grads go through a new grad structure mentorship, which is two times a week for the first six weeks, then one time a week for the next six weeks, then one time every other week for the next 12 weeks. And so we have these different cadences built out depending on the, the employee, their job title, and then kind of like what they need too. So like people can always request more meetings and more mentorship from us.

But what I'm hearing is that if I'm a physio working at your clinic, right. You know, I'm going to have one on one.

Right.

You know, once a month. Right. With is it the owner or is it the clinic director at the, at the location?

Right now it's me and Mitch.

Yeah.

Our goal through this director training though is, you know, we're still in our growth process where some of our clinics don't even have a full time director in. And so starting March 4, we will officially have a director in every location. And so our goal is to start empowering them to be able to take on those one on one meetings and those kind of things. Right now it's been, you know, me and Mitch take all those meetings. So we're still, you know, we're still in the midst of like, you know this 60, 70 hour weeks because we're, we're doing everything. So that's kind of, we're, we're like you're catching us in the phase where we're, we're really working.

Sounds like you need some help with org structure, right? You know?

Exactly. Yeah, we're building out the org structure.

Okay, and what is the org structure? So is it you and Mitch is you, you just have one business partner? You have like multiple business partners?

Yeah, well, we own, so me and Mitch own high def together. And then we've got, we've got kind of a cool situation where we've got one clinic, we've got two clinics that we own with two other guys. So we, we own that clinic that I mentioned earlier in the beginning of the podcast, that one in New Mexico. So we got another two guys down there that also own four clinics of their own. And so we kind of co. Co partnered on two clinics together. So.

Okay, so you're so for high def you have one business partner and then, and, and between you and your business partner, Melch, you guys also own, I guess, four clinics in New Mexico with like another entity, right? Is that one. No.

So we don't, we don't own all of those. We only own the one under different brands. So we bought, we acquired a clinic called Mirasol Physical Therapy. It's a pelvic health and women's health clinic in southern New Mexico. And so we, we all acquired this clinic together.

And why'd you decide to do that and whether. Just focusing all in on high def.

Yeah, good questions.

High def, high death.

It's, you know, that's a good question. I think one, I've learned a lot from acquiring a clinic. It was a really solid clinic. It's the only pelvic floor clinic within like maybe, you know, 75 to 100 miles. So we've got, it's like that the clinic problem there is, is recruitment. And so we went all in on that. It's, it's been a great clinic. It was a really good service for the community. Without Mirasol, there literally is not pelvic physical therapy in southern New Mexico at all. They have to drive an hour to El Paso to get it. And so the deal just came onto the table from a local couple that, that owned the clinic that was leaving the country and they were selling their practice and it just came about and we gotta, we got a killer deal on it, so we decided to acquire it.

Yeah. Okay, so, and, and so it was a kind of a shiny Object. Shiny object. Thing.

Yeah, yeah. And it's, it's still shiny, but we definitely started to see the scuffs, you know, once, Once we got going on it.

Yeah, yeah. No, this is an interesting conversation. Like, you know, like, I see a lot of expansions, you know, obviously within our community, you know, like, like, you know, even when we expand to 127 locations, is that like, you know, it's way easier to expand within a geography where you have like, management.

Right.

You know, when you don't, then you really have to have a strong, like, business partner, like, on the ground that could like, not require you to get that involved. Right. You know, otherwise it starts taking away from your efforts, from your. Your core business. Right. You know, so.

No, and that's great feedback. It. Yeah, we've always thought about that too, because we, we like, looked at opening some clinics in Arizona and like some other different states, and that's how I always felt. And it's, it's nice to hear and I'd love to hear more about that from you, but.

Well, you're having a website, you're crushing it. Like, why, why would you, like, re. Do all your pain all over again? You know, like, why not extend to the brand, you know, so that you could like, own, like Washington or own Seattle. Right. You know, with.

Yeah, I'll tell, I'll tell you that has owning the clinic in New Mexico. I, I wouldn't change it. We've got a great team there. They do what they do. But I wouldn't, I wouldn't expand anything outside of high def right now, especially because, like, I don't want to take any attention now. I'm more of a silent partner in this, in this org to some extent. I have weekly meetings and we talk about it, but it's more advice. And I'm not doing anything. Like, I help them on the back end with some SEO stuff and like, some, some of that kind of stuff. But. But the guys down there in New.

Mexico, they're like, more advising them, you know, at the border level.

Yeah. And they don't honestly need my advice, really. You know, like, I. And the cool thing about our partnership is we've all got different specialties, so we all bring different stuff to the table. And those guys are really the heroes down there keeping this clinic or growing this clinic.

Yeah. So, Zach, I'm curious, like, so how does, like, what's the org structure between you and your business partner? Like, who does what? You know. Right.

Or.

Yeah, the exact same thing.

Yeah. No, we don't. And, and you know, it's, it's funny because we never had to create an order structure. Me and him are similar in a lot of ways, but we're different. And so he's not a physical therapist.

Okay.

So he, we started the businesses. He was a, he has a business degree then he was a personal trainer, nutrition coach. And so I was the pt. So yeah, so for a long time he handled a lot of like the back end business stuff and I handle a lot of like the front end, like the bill, like everything required with the service. And he handled the marketing, the sales, all that kind of stuff. And so that's kind of how we've kind of split and now like I do a lot more with the physical therapists, you know, like mentorship and stuff like that because obviously he doesn't mentor pts as a, as a non pt. And then we kind of split things geographically a little bit too where like he lives in one area, I live in another area. And we, he has a couple clinics that are close to his house, I have a couple that are close to my house. And we kind of manage things a little bit geographically as well. But we kind of have some unwritten, you know, like tasks. Like we've kind of just, I've known him since high school, just so you, you kind of understand the background and we just have a, an interesting flow where we've never had to, you know, like, we kind of just know we have each other's backs and like, I can go on a vacation, he'll step in and do what I need to do. And, and that's kind of like our, our organization now. I think we're, we're more clearly defining those things over the last, you know, year or so, starting to define like, what does that look like? What are the tasks that we're actually doing on a day to day basis? Because you know, if you want to try to level up your staff and like empower them to take on what you're doing, you have to be able to like actually put down in, in words and like standard operating procedures what you're doing. So that's, that's a large part of like what we're working on right now.

Is especially if you started rolling out clinic directors, right? You know, if you're going to roll out clinic directors, you know, like, I think it's important for the staff to know like who does what within the organization so that they, they don't have to run to Zach every time, you know, or they don't have to rack like to Mitch every single time. You know, if it's this problem, I go, I go to Zach this problem go to my CD or whatever. But. Because what I've seen a lot like of things happen in org structure is that like, you know, staff play like mom and dad between like the owners. Right. You know.

Yeah. And I mean we've certainly dealt with that in the past where it's like, oh, that's interesting. Why this person come to you for this? Like, you know, it is like, hey, I think he's gonna give me more of the answer that I want. The good thing is like we're typically on the same page and we don't just give out like, you know, concrete answers like at the time. So. And me and, me and Mitch meet three times a week. Week for at least four hours a week. And. Okay. And, and obviously like we're, we're in the same location often. So you know, it's, it's been a, it's been a really cool partnership. I always say like I would never be as far as I would be without him because he, I've got more of like the braking system and I'm like very opposed to risk and he's got more of the gas and so like we kind of hit this like middle zone.

So it sounds like you're handling operations and like marketing, you know, and he's handling some of the finance like stuff. Right. Is that what I'm hearing a little bit different?

So he actually does the marketing. Okay. He's out like doing.

I thought you told, I thought you told me you did the marketing. Right, with like all the, with, with the website and all that stuff. No.

Oh, if you consider that marketing. Yeah, I do like the virtual stuff. He does like all the in person, like he sets up all the lunches with the doctors. He goes and talks to like clinic managers of like surgeons offices and like that kind of stuff.

Stuff.

So he's organizing a lot of that stuff. A lot of times he's organizing it and I'm just showing up. And so that's kind of like what, what he's got going on. Okay. And then you know, we kind of co. Manage like financial responsibilities, stuff like that. Okay.

And then like it sounds like you guys are. Right now we're in hats of a clinic directors at each location as well. Right. You know, like you guys, each of you run two like, you know, you're the clinic director for like two of these locations each. Right. You know.

Right.

And that's where you're rolling every clinic director program.

Right?

Right.

Ex. Essentially. Yeah.

Okay, cool. Super cool. And so, and last question. If you had a, if you had $1,000. Right. You know. Right. How would you spend it this month to make, like, make a return next month, you know, for your practice?

Probably $1,000 to spend right now.

Yeah.

O. That's a good question. Because I think the easiest thing would be, like, if I know my customer acquisition cost, I would spend it on Google Ads. That, that would probably be how I would spend it. But I'll give you the long term answer. I'd spend it on educating and, and leveling up my team. Okay.

Wow. All right. That's super cool, Zach. Right? So, and, and Zach, how do people find out more about you? You know, like, like, where should they go? Like.

And yeah, Zach, the PT on Instagram is probably the best place to find me. It's where I post the most, put on my stories. It's kind of like a combination between personal and business and, and just like putting up the kind of stuff that I want. And that's, that's the. You know, we have a podcast you can listen to literally hours of me speaking, which is probably not going to be good for your brain, but.

What, what, what, what's the name of your podcast?

We have, we've had three in the past. We have High Def Performance Podcast here if you're more interested in like the PT side of like, performance and like, like actual, like clinical stuff. That's High Def Performance Podcast. And then we've also got the podcast called Cash Flow Clinic, which is basically like me and him just like, you know, talking about business and, and I think that one's kind of just more for us and more for fun, but we put it up on, on all the platforms, Spotify and all that.

Super, super cool. All right, and so, and, and, and this year, are you, Will you be at PPS this year, Zach?

Unfortunately, this would be the first year, like I really was planning on going to take the whole family that one of our, one of our kind of business partners that owns a gym down here, Luca, hosts of our. He's hosting his conference again this year for the first time since 2020. So he's host, he's hosting a big conference. So we're, we're out here supporting him on that same weekend, which would be an awesome conference in itself. So I'm looking to go some other ones. So if you have any, any recommendations on other conferences to hit this year. I got to replace P.P.S.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow.

I. I definitely am coming to yours next year.

Yeah. We're gonna be in Dallas. Dallas, 2025, you know. Right. So it's gonna be. It's gonna be hot. So awesome. Thanks for coming this show, Zach. And we'll see everyone, like, next week. If you found this helpful and want some free resources to help you be an even better clinic owner, head over to clinicbosstools.com we've got tons of free stuff on getting new patients, bone scripts, selling your clinic, managing clinical teams, and much more. Head over to clinicbosstools.com.